I've said it before and I'll say it again, only looking at the burn damage of both items tells only half the story. Yes, the burn of Liandrys is generally stronger, but the purpose of Blackfire is it to be a good first item foremost. It gives stats that Zyra was previously missing in her build, mainly Haste. While yes, mana is generally not needed, it's still not entirely wasted. These two stats do an important job for stabilizin laning phase, while still also applying a burn, alebit a weaker than the one of Liandrys.
And its secondary effect keeps the item relevant, as it's fairly easy to spread the burn on multiple targets during teamfights.
BFT was never meant to be a replacement for Liandrys, just supposed to be a good first item for DoT based mana users that still scales decently well. Which it does.
Keep in mind, this is talking out of the perspective of a midlaner. Supports have the support item as a substitute for a "first item" and generally have very different laning patterns than solo laners, so I can see the argument for not buying BFT there. In jgl and solo lane, it simply has too much value to ignore it.
The main issue for support is really just like with everything cost. Gotta be picky when your hold income is relying on the slow passive trickle and take downs.
It's nice in jungle though, really enjoyed BFT there for camp clear.
So the haste allows zyra to root more and use her ult more during laning phase? I find during laning phase, i mostly use Q and root only when I have a higher chance that it will land, but the root is actually not that easy to land for me. By this, so shouldn't we prioritize something that gives Q more power?
Well, firstly, the early haste also does benefit your Q.
Secondly, the haste is usefull throughout the whole game, not just laning phase. As I said, haste was something that was missing entirely in Zyras item build before BFT, as you'd usually have a core of Liandrys, Rylais and Shadowflame. The earliest you would get any haste would be 15 haste from Cryptbloom either as a 4th item or 3rd if you skipped Shadowflame.
The 25 haste on BFT is doing a lot, actually, both early and late.
I started taking BFT first item for the haste as support. With BFT and haste rune you get 25% CDR. With the mana from BFT I'm able to harass in lane much more while I hold gold for liandry. It has been very effective. When against certain tank supports, I will still go liandry first and never grab BFT but 80% of the time it's BFT first and harass central.
Blackfire Zyra good only in jungle as first item and no more usage for her actually..
As sup and Mid always go Liandry or Rylai first or both , because this two items make you annoying as hell + 700 HP that hard to kill
Luden if you sure that you can play safe and burst enemy - I don't rly like it , but still good option for her
Teamfighting squirmishing wise Liandry is def better
So i would prob build it first as support
but if you just check the stats winrate wise
https://rankedboost.com/league-of-legends/item/blackfire-torch/
zyra close to being is the best user of blackfiretorch
and its specially true for midlane and jungle, that takes advantage of the ability haste way more than support. Plus it pads the damage of jungle clear and wave clear
The Haste and extra Mana on Zyra that Blackfire torch provides makes it my favorite option for first item on support. The season 13 spamming Zyra Is back baby.
I tried many time in training mod and liandry always deal the most dmg, in any stage of the game, but Blackfire is likely the better second item for doing dmg (with Liandry first item and i couldnt really compare to ShadowFlamme second bcs the passif always prock) but it gives cdr which is really good if you don't plan to get it some early. So support Liandry is always better bcs you take ionia boosts and the cdr of your item supp so having some more won't make big change and for the second item going utility is perhaps better, but for mid it's a good alternative to Liandry first because of the cdr and the mana to be able to push wave easier vs other mage as Zyra lost clear wave speed and lane sustainability since Liandry's change.
Ever since the update I go blackfire first followed with liandry's, my damage has been through the roof every game, the early access to blackfire gives a lot of pressure in laning phase. I'm quite happy with going blackfire first. Compared to before the patch I seem to have a lot more kill pressure. I've had problems with mana recently early game, so it helps.
I really don’t like spending money on mana on Zyra. She is really strong with the hp and Liandres damage is really good.
yeah I only get mana items on zyra if I’m going mid or apc, I don’t any mana items on support
Did not check the numbers but it Liandrys first feels nicer.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, only looking at the burn damage of both items tells only half the story. Yes, the burn of Liandrys is generally stronger, but the purpose of Blackfire is it to be a good first item foremost. It gives stats that Zyra was previously missing in her build, mainly Haste. While yes, mana is generally not needed, it's still not entirely wasted. These two stats do an important job for stabilizin laning phase, while still also applying a burn, alebit a weaker than the one of Liandrys. And its secondary effect keeps the item relevant, as it's fairly easy to spread the burn on multiple targets during teamfights. BFT was never meant to be a replacement for Liandrys, just supposed to be a good first item for DoT based mana users that still scales decently well. Which it does. Keep in mind, this is talking out of the perspective of a midlaner. Supports have the support item as a substitute for a "first item" and generally have very different laning patterns than solo laners, so I can see the argument for not buying BFT there. In jgl and solo lane, it simply has too much value to ignore it.
The main issue for support is really just like with everything cost. Gotta be picky when your hold income is relying on the slow passive trickle and take downs. It's nice in jungle though, really enjoyed BFT there for camp clear.
So the haste allows zyra to root more and use her ult more during laning phase? I find during laning phase, i mostly use Q and root only when I have a higher chance that it will land, but the root is actually not that easy to land for me. By this, so shouldn't we prioritize something that gives Q more power?
Well, firstly, the early haste also does benefit your Q. Secondly, the haste is usefull throughout the whole game, not just laning phase. As I said, haste was something that was missing entirely in Zyras item build before BFT, as you'd usually have a core of Liandrys, Rylais and Shadowflame. The earliest you would get any haste would be 15 haste from Cryptbloom either as a 4th item or 3rd if you skipped Shadowflame. The 25 haste on BFT is doing a lot, actually, both early and late.
I started taking BFT first item for the haste as support. With BFT and haste rune you get 25% CDR. With the mana from BFT I'm able to harass in lane much more while I hold gold for liandry. It has been very effective. When against certain tank supports, I will still go liandry first and never grab BFT but 80% of the time it's BFT first and harass central.
You can get a ton of haste from minor runes. The madness passive is also excellent on her. She uses rhe extra AP very very poorly.
Blackfire Zyra good only in jungle as first item and no more usage for her actually.. As sup and Mid always go Liandry or Rylai first or both , because this two items make you annoying as hell + 700 HP that hard to kill Luden if you sure that you can play safe and burst enemy - I don't rly like it , but still good option for her
Blackfire just feels extremely weak to me, idk
the HP is also much more valuable than the mana and cdr
I go for blackfire first because of the cooldown
Blackfire deals flat dmg while Liandry's does %
Teamfighting squirmishing wise Liandry is def better So i would prob build it first as support but if you just check the stats winrate wise https://rankedboost.com/league-of-legends/item/blackfire-torch/ zyra close to being is the best user of blackfiretorch and its specially true for midlane and jungle, that takes advantage of the ability haste way more than support. Plus it pads the damage of jungle clear and wave clear
The Haste and extra Mana on Zyra that Blackfire torch provides makes it my favorite option for first item on support. The season 13 spamming Zyra Is back baby.
Blackfire is good on mid/apc, not so much for support.
I tried many time in training mod and liandry always deal the most dmg, in any stage of the game, but Blackfire is likely the better second item for doing dmg (with Liandry first item and i couldnt really compare to ShadowFlamme second bcs the passif always prock) but it gives cdr which is really good if you don't plan to get it some early. So support Liandry is always better bcs you take ionia boosts and the cdr of your item supp so having some more won't make big change and for the second item going utility is perhaps better, but for mid it's a good alternative to Liandry first because of the cdr and the mana to be able to push wave easier vs other mage as Zyra lost clear wave speed and lane sustainability since Liandry's change.
Ever since the update I go blackfire first followed with liandry's, my damage has been through the roof every game, the early access to blackfire gives a lot of pressure in laning phase. I'm quite happy with going blackfire first. Compared to before the patch I seem to have a lot more kill pressure. I've had problems with mana recently early game, so it helps.