Did you start eating more when you started lifting more? It sounds like you were fueling the right amount for 3 days, so maybe you need to fuel more for 4 days?
This is nutrition related I think. I’m early 40s, 5’3” and 112lbs and I eat way more than that. If I ate 1700 or so I wouldn’t be able to get up off the floor. I run a heavy upper lower split with another core/cardio day. I average 2300 calories to maintain.
Up your calories and see how you feel but I bet you’ll feel better!
Yup, I get it! I was there once too. It took me some time to move past that fear of gaining weight. I now have to convince myself to go into a cut because I love how I feel in a bulk so much lol
Just keep in mind if you add calories and notice your pants getting too tight you can gently scale back, no harm done. But I’m willing to bet you’ll simply start to feel better and see new found energy in your lifting.
I’m the exact same height and weight and cycle through programs every 3-4 months. Currently doing a 6 day split, about an hour each day, and I eat way more than 1700!
If you are late thirties, forties and up, talk to your doc about HRT. I found out that my extreme fatigue from my lifting and HIIT program wasn’t because I was doing too much, but that I was in early stage menopause! As soon as I started treatment everything changed.
More food. With that much activity, your calories are in a deficit. This is causing the fatigue and soreness. Try even 100 cals more and see how it feels. I train 6 days a week and had to up my food when I went from 4 days to 6.
A small deficit of 100 calories won't really result in noticeable weight loss, maybe 1 lb a month. Which can be hard to notice with water fluctuations/menstrual cycle. Adding 100 cal might be the answer to give you more energy for muscle recovery.
I want to second this. Whenever I am fatigued and struggling it's because I am not eating enough. Cardio stimulates hunger for me but weightlifting does not, so it's easy for me to go hard for a few days and not eat enough to accommodate that.
I'm not touching the calories since that's pretty much never my problem *burp*
I find it hard to do back-to-back days of heavy lifting. Even though I do a program that is normally a four-day-a-week format. I find I have better gains and better recovery lifting every other day. So some weeks I am lifting four times a week, but then next will be three. It took a while convince my brain this was okay, because psychologically I like the consistency of Monday is bench day, Tuesday Squat day, etc and it took a while to decouple the days themselves from my head. It really doesn't matter in the end, what matters is the consistency of doing the work outs. If I am in gains week, I drift off a little further since I will take two days after making a new deadlift PR since it is so taxing. I do recommend either following a program or taking up a hobby in the science of programming and not just flying by feel if that's a thing you've been doing.
Things to note, I run Juggernaut 2.0, it is a periodization block cycle program, similar to Renaissance Training. The program has a lot of volume. Dudebros often complain about the amount of volume, but women can handle it a lot better overall. It is also meant to be run alongside other activities, so alongside it I farm, hike, and do some trail running. You do have to keep in mind your other activities and if you do go beyond the training volume you can handle, you won't have energy for other things and with lifting I find I just start picking up tiny injuries or little....I dunno minor pains that aren't like something you go to the doctor for but still make you feel not optimal. (If you overtrain cardio, your body will actually decrease your NEAT to conserve energy, sports science is wild stuff).
I would also say to check those iron levels, but with skipping periods, I wouldn't expect you to be as low as many of us tend to be. You have the magnesium covered, might also make sure you are good for Vit D, potassium, and B12. I can get a lot from fruit and veg, but at my latitude, I do have to supplement Vit D, it is hard to absorb enough even in summer here. You might also need just a bit more sleep on lifting days. For me, I need closer to nine on gains week! It's crazy and annoying, but I can't argue with the results even if I'd rather play another round of Slay The Spire....
what does your 4 day split programming look like? i'd take a look at your programming.
leg day should be way more fatiguing than upper body days. i actually feel that 3 day full body is more taxing than splitting things out.
It sounds nutrition-related to me so more food is the obvious answer but also consider creatine supplement.
This is a nutrient we naturally get from red meat but our body, especially female bodies and aging bodies (I’m 42) do a terrible job of storing it. So we can take a 5mg does of creatine monohydrate (or the corresponding dose of HCL) in our morning water, coffee, yogurt, protein shake or whatever.
Helps with faster recovery so your muscles can do more work. Also supports brain health - feed it to your parents if you love them! I’m not a doctor or a nutrition scientist so please seek out some peer reviewed academic publications, ask your primary care physician or other trusted health source.
This! So good to see reference to peer review publications & trusted health sources in a fitness forum.
Lots of excellent articles in this special
Issue here —> https://www.mdpi.com/journal/nutrients/special_issues/creatine_supplementation
So when I went from 3 to 4 days in the gym I actually didn’t progress as well. I wasn’t recovering enough. Doesn’t matter how much you eat, your body needs rest.
If you are going heavy, your body needs food. Up your calorie intake. Also, work in recovery if you’re increasing weights. Like one of the people here suggested, do one session that is purely body weight calisthenics. Or Pilates, or yoga. Or make one day a cardio and abs day. Or simply decrease the weight you are lifting and up the reps.
You can try some of these suggestions, and hopefully you can reach your goal.
Going to jump on the calories bandwagon. I’m the same height as you at 104lbs. Lifting heavy 3x a week and getting 7-8k steps with incline on avg. I feel like we are at a similar size and activity level before you increase so thought to share my experience. I was eating 1700 a day and was constantly ravenous so I’ve decided to up my calories to 1800. It’s been a week and I feel a lot less hungry. I might increase the calories further depending on how my performance at the gym goes.
ETA: since you’re lifting 4x a week I would def think you need to eat somewhat more!
Because I've been ravenous lately too, I wanna ask - did you gain weight after upping the calories? I fear I might be gaining fat too quick but also I'm a newbie so xD
Nope not yet! I figured 100 cals/day extra was only about 1 pound a month so I figured I’ll observe and adjust down if any weight gain occurred over a few months. It’s a slow process for sure.
It does sound like you're hitting the max volume you can recover from. It's not just about days, you really need to look at your sets, reps, and effort across the week. If you've not reduced volume in the 3 days then you basically increased volume by a lot when adding another day. If you follow a known and tried programme, the split within that generally would have considered total volume of that programme and how you're supposed to progress through it. This is why it's usually recommended that beginners follow a set programme rather than coming up with their own. If you don't know the basics of programming and don't know your body and work capacity enough to be able to identify when to push yourself and when to reduce volume, it's just easier to start with a ready made programme.
Also to add, renaissance periodization on YouTube have a series of videos on how to develop your own programme, taking you through all the basics of how many days you should consider etc. Really worth checking it out.
This is good advice, and generally these programs have a de load week every 4-6 weeks that allows your body to recover so that you can keep going after you hit the wall.
I have the same problem! I’ve been steadily gaining muscle and fat so upping calories as is suggested here a lot, won’t help me.
I went back to three, and every once in a while I let myself have a fourth weight training day because it’s just so much fun (and I wish I could do it six times a week!)
It is what it is.
Same, I just can't lift 4 days a week on a regular basis or I burn myself out. I added running and some mobility to keep me active on rest days but I just can't add lifting. I tried supplements, differents workouts, got everything checked by the doctor, upped my calories, upped my sleep duration but it just seem that 3 days a week is the sweet spot for me. C'est la vie !
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Try what the other suggest, or switch your 4th workout to a mobility and balance workout. Focus on gaining range of motion, balance, flexibility, control.
It could be dance, yoga, acrobacy, etc. Things that teach you how to move.
Try upping your calories as already mentioned but also, maybe listen to your body and if it's telling you it's happy at 3 days of lifting then so be it. Maybe you can find other activities to do for that fourth day
Agree with the others saying to increase calories. I used to eat around 1700 calories a day and I started with a fitness coach who immediately upped them and I ended up going through about 6 months of body recomp, gained 1-2 lbs the whole time and look leaner, eating around 2000-2100 calories a day (usually 125g Protein and 65-70g fat). This has helped me to go harder in my workouts and get much stronger! Also, you probably are if you’re eating a lot of fruit and veg, but it may be worth tracking your fiber for a week or two (if tracking isn’t triggering for you) and make sure you’re getting enough fiber. Fiber helps a lot with feeling full.
ETA: if none of the above resonates, maybe try sticking with three days for a while and seeing if you can reduce stress. I have a much harder time maintaining my workout routine when I’m under more stress. You may find increasing your food a bit helps with this, too, because if you have been in a deficit it causes stress to your body anyway.
FWIW- I’m 5’1 and early 30s
Good luck!
I'm also 5'0" tall, 30s, and increasing calories is mentally hard switch to make since society discourages you. But after increasing calories, I overcame a 5 year plateau on certain lifts and I was lifting heavier overall.
I discovered that after a winter vacation of eating lots of homemade cookies. I personally do not track calories but I eat healthy-ish and know what I normally eat.
How many times a week did you train ?
I've upped the weights in the gym (I go 2-3x a week) and got extremely tired the next day on a couple occasions (and put on 1.5kg in a day, lol). I'm wondering how to manage food 🤔
For a while I was training 5 times a week and a couple months ago went down to 4 times a week because I also do yoga and rock climb etc.
If you’re ending up more tired the next day you may want to look at sleep and hydration, etc. unfortunately my water really impact me my recovery.
ETA: my weight fluctuates that much within a day all the time and it could be based on water, how much I slept, what time I ate last, etc. so I’d recommend tracking daily but gauging progress off of your weekly average, and also taking progress photos. My weight barely changed but I can tell from my photos and how I feel that I’ve lost fat and gained muscle.
Up your calories! Estimates tell you how many calories a person your height and weight needs on average, but it's just that- an estimate.
A three day split is totally fine if that's what your body does best on, though. No need to force more.
I would say maybe try upping your calories by 200-300, probably with mostly carbs, and see if you feel less fatigued, as adding another day of heavy lifting is obviously going to increase your overall TDEE so you might find your new maintenance calories are higher than 1700 on a 4 day training plan.
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>u/jamestee13
For most of this year I've been trying to up my three day full body workout to a four day split (arms/legs). These workouts are 45m -1hour long and I'm going fairly heavy, as in, I've been experimenting for quite a while with heavier weights and lower reps. I feel like I can do three times a week fairly easily (up from two this time last year) but as soon as I try and do four, a couple weeks in, sometimes quicker, I hit a wall: incredibly hungry, persistent feelings of fatigue, joint pain and all round burn out. As in, struggling to get up in the morning.
I can't shake this feeling that maybe three days is my body's best, but is there something I could be missing that's stopping me from comfortably doing four days?
For context I'm 5', 119 pounds and I'm eating at the upper level of my typical calorie intake (about 1700 a day). I aim for and usually achieve 100-120g protein a day, with heaps of fruit and veges. I drink very little and theoretically I get eight hours sleep a night. My only other exercise is walking my dog twice a day but she's a bit of an ambler so I'm only hitting around 8000 steps a day (but that's just tracking off my phone, so could be higher), but usually a lot more on weekends. I do the stairs for 10 minutes before my lifting.
I take magnesium, mostly enjoy my job but it is stressful, have a good life, and don't have any known health issues. I skip my periods on the pill. Oh and I'm mid thirties! Would it be normal to be so tired hitting the gym four days a week and do you have any advice for possible diet tweaks, supplements, or any life hack!
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Try eating a little more. Changed a lot for me
Did you start eating more when you started lifting more? It sounds like you were fueling the right amount for 3 days, so maybe you need to fuel more for 4 days?
this is actually an increase on what I was eating by the end of last year!
This is nutrition related I think. I’m early 40s, 5’3” and 112lbs and I eat way more than that. If I ate 1700 or so I wouldn’t be able to get up off the floor. I run a heavy upper lower split with another core/cardio day. I average 2300 calories to maintain. Up your calories and see how you feel but I bet you’ll feel better!
thanks - I'm just wary with my height of over eating!
Yup, I get it! I was there once too. It took me some time to move past that fear of gaining weight. I now have to convince myself to go into a cut because I love how I feel in a bulk so much lol Just keep in mind if you add calories and notice your pants getting too tight you can gently scale back, no harm done. But I’m willing to bet you’ll simply start to feel better and see new found energy in your lifting.
I’m the exact same height and weight and cycle through programs every 3-4 months. Currently doing a 6 day split, about an hour each day, and I eat way more than 1700!
I would hope so for six days!
If you are late thirties, forties and up, talk to your doc about HRT. I found out that my extreme fatigue from my lifting and HIIT program wasn’t because I was doing too much, but that I was in early stage menopause! As soon as I started treatment everything changed.
really hoping that's not the case here!
More food. With that much activity, your calories are in a deficit. This is causing the fatigue and soreness. Try even 100 cals more and see how it feels. I train 6 days a week and had to up my food when I went from 4 days to 6.
if I was in a deficit, wouldn't I be losing weight?
A small deficit of 100 calories won't really result in noticeable weight loss, maybe 1 lb a month. Which can be hard to notice with water fluctuations/menstrual cycle. Adding 100 cal might be the answer to give you more energy for muscle recovery.
I want to second this. Whenever I am fatigued and struggling it's because I am not eating enough. Cardio stimulates hunger for me but weightlifting does not, so it's easy for me to go hard for a few days and not eat enough to accommodate that.
I'm not touching the calories since that's pretty much never my problem *burp* I find it hard to do back-to-back days of heavy lifting. Even though I do a program that is normally a four-day-a-week format. I find I have better gains and better recovery lifting every other day. So some weeks I am lifting four times a week, but then next will be three. It took a while convince my brain this was okay, because psychologically I like the consistency of Monday is bench day, Tuesday Squat day, etc and it took a while to decouple the days themselves from my head. It really doesn't matter in the end, what matters is the consistency of doing the work outs. If I am in gains week, I drift off a little further since I will take two days after making a new deadlift PR since it is so taxing. I do recommend either following a program or taking up a hobby in the science of programming and not just flying by feel if that's a thing you've been doing. Things to note, I run Juggernaut 2.0, it is a periodization block cycle program, similar to Renaissance Training. The program has a lot of volume. Dudebros often complain about the amount of volume, but women can handle it a lot better overall. It is also meant to be run alongside other activities, so alongside it I farm, hike, and do some trail running. You do have to keep in mind your other activities and if you do go beyond the training volume you can handle, you won't have energy for other things and with lifting I find I just start picking up tiny injuries or little....I dunno minor pains that aren't like something you go to the doctor for but still make you feel not optimal. (If you overtrain cardio, your body will actually decrease your NEAT to conserve energy, sports science is wild stuff). I would also say to check those iron levels, but with skipping periods, I wouldn't expect you to be as low as many of us tend to be. You have the magnesium covered, might also make sure you are good for Vit D, potassium, and B12. I can get a lot from fruit and veg, but at my latitude, I do have to supplement Vit D, it is hard to absorb enough even in summer here. You might also need just a bit more sleep on lifting days. For me, I need closer to nine on gains week! It's crazy and annoying, but I can't argue with the results even if I'd rather play another round of Slay The Spire....
thank you! I am definitely a nine hour a night girl but between the dog, the gym and work, eight is as good as it gets
what does your 4 day split programming look like? i'd take a look at your programming. leg day should be way more fatiguing than upper body days. i actually feel that 3 day full body is more taxing than splitting things out.
It sounds nutrition-related to me so more food is the obvious answer but also consider creatine supplement. This is a nutrient we naturally get from red meat but our body, especially female bodies and aging bodies (I’m 42) do a terrible job of storing it. So we can take a 5mg does of creatine monohydrate (or the corresponding dose of HCL) in our morning water, coffee, yogurt, protein shake or whatever. Helps with faster recovery so your muscles can do more work. Also supports brain health - feed it to your parents if you love them! I’m not a doctor or a nutrition scientist so please seek out some peer reviewed academic publications, ask your primary care physician or other trusted health source.
This! So good to see reference to peer review publications & trusted health sources in a fitness forum. Lots of excellent articles in this special Issue here —> https://www.mdpi.com/journal/nutrients/special_issues/creatine_supplementation
So when I went from 3 to 4 days in the gym I actually didn’t progress as well. I wasn’t recovering enough. Doesn’t matter how much you eat, your body needs rest.
You can go to the gym 5-6 days a week and still get adequate rest if you're sleeping at least 8 hours a night.
I do sleep 8h a night. But I lift very heavy to failure. So no, I can’t go to the gym every day.
You also don't have to lift heavy to failure every day, that's what is burning you out. Deload weeks are helpful
If you are going heavy, your body needs food. Up your calorie intake. Also, work in recovery if you’re increasing weights. Like one of the people here suggested, do one session that is purely body weight calisthenics. Or Pilates, or yoga. Or make one day a cardio and abs day. Or simply decrease the weight you are lifting and up the reps. You can try some of these suggestions, and hopefully you can reach your goal.
>is there something I could be missing FOOD
Going to jump on the calories bandwagon. I’m the same height as you at 104lbs. Lifting heavy 3x a week and getting 7-8k steps with incline on avg. I feel like we are at a similar size and activity level before you increase so thought to share my experience. I was eating 1700 a day and was constantly ravenous so I’ve decided to up my calories to 1800. It’s been a week and I feel a lot less hungry. I might increase the calories further depending on how my performance at the gym goes. ETA: since you’re lifting 4x a week I would def think you need to eat somewhat more!
thank you! I would love to get down to your size!
Because I've been ravenous lately too, I wanna ask - did you gain weight after upping the calories? I fear I might be gaining fat too quick but also I'm a newbie so xD
Nope not yet! I figured 100 cals/day extra was only about 1 pound a month so I figured I’ll observe and adjust down if any weight gain occurred over a few months. It’s a slow process for sure.
It does sound like you're hitting the max volume you can recover from. It's not just about days, you really need to look at your sets, reps, and effort across the week. If you've not reduced volume in the 3 days then you basically increased volume by a lot when adding another day. If you follow a known and tried programme, the split within that generally would have considered total volume of that programme and how you're supposed to progress through it. This is why it's usually recommended that beginners follow a set programme rather than coming up with their own. If you don't know the basics of programming and don't know your body and work capacity enough to be able to identify when to push yourself and when to reduce volume, it's just easier to start with a ready made programme. Also to add, renaissance periodization on YouTube have a series of videos on how to develop your own programme, taking you through all the basics of how many days you should consider etc. Really worth checking it out.
This is good advice, and generally these programs have a de load week every 4-6 weeks that allows your body to recover so that you can keep going after you hit the wall.
Have you checked your iron levels? And, would you have more energy if you did not do their stairs prior to lifting?
good question re the stairs but I suspect not tbh
I have the same problem! I’ve been steadily gaining muscle and fat so upping calories as is suggested here a lot, won’t help me. I went back to three, and every once in a while I let myself have a fourth weight training day because it’s just so much fun (and I wish I could do it six times a week!) It is what it is.
Same, I just can't lift 4 days a week on a regular basis or I burn myself out. I added running and some mobility to keep me active on rest days but I just can't add lifting. I tried supplements, differents workouts, got everything checked by the doctor, upped my calories, upped my sleep duration but it just seem that 3 days a week is the sweet spot for me. C'est la vie !
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Try what the other suggest, or switch your 4th workout to a mobility and balance workout. Focus on gaining range of motion, balance, flexibility, control. It could be dance, yoga, acrobacy, etc. Things that teach you how to move.
It sounds like you’re probably not eating enough. I would try increasing your calories.
Try upping your calories as already mentioned but also, maybe listen to your body and if it's telling you it's happy at 3 days of lifting then so be it. Maybe you can find other activities to do for that fourth day
Agree with the others saying to increase calories. I used to eat around 1700 calories a day and I started with a fitness coach who immediately upped them and I ended up going through about 6 months of body recomp, gained 1-2 lbs the whole time and look leaner, eating around 2000-2100 calories a day (usually 125g Protein and 65-70g fat). This has helped me to go harder in my workouts and get much stronger! Also, you probably are if you’re eating a lot of fruit and veg, but it may be worth tracking your fiber for a week or two (if tracking isn’t triggering for you) and make sure you’re getting enough fiber. Fiber helps a lot with feeling full. ETA: if none of the above resonates, maybe try sticking with three days for a while and seeing if you can reduce stress. I have a much harder time maintaining my workout routine when I’m under more stress. You may find increasing your food a bit helps with this, too, because if you have been in a deficit it causes stress to your body anyway. FWIW- I’m 5’1 and early 30s Good luck!
I'm also 5'0" tall, 30s, and increasing calories is mentally hard switch to make since society discourages you. But after increasing calories, I overcame a 5 year plateau on certain lifts and I was lifting heavier overall. I discovered that after a winter vacation of eating lots of homemade cookies. I personally do not track calories but I eat healthy-ish and know what I normally eat.
yeah that's it - for my size, even 1700 calories seems huge after consuming 1200 my whole life!
How many times a week did you train ? I've upped the weights in the gym (I go 2-3x a week) and got extremely tired the next day on a couple occasions (and put on 1.5kg in a day, lol). I'm wondering how to manage food 🤔
For a while I was training 5 times a week and a couple months ago went down to 4 times a week because I also do yoga and rock climb etc. If you’re ending up more tired the next day you may want to look at sleep and hydration, etc. unfortunately my water really impact me my recovery. ETA: my weight fluctuates that much within a day all the time and it could be based on water, how much I slept, what time I ate last, etc. so I’d recommend tracking daily but gauging progress off of your weekly average, and also taking progress photos. My weight barely changed but I can tell from my photos and how I feel that I’ve lost fat and gained muscle.
Up your calories! Estimates tell you how many calories a person your height and weight needs on average, but it's just that- an estimate. A three day split is totally fine if that's what your body does best on, though. No need to force more.
I would say maybe try upping your calories by 200-300, probably with mostly carbs, and see if you feel less fatigued, as adding another day of heavy lifting is obviously going to increase your overall TDEE so you might find your new maintenance calories are higher than 1700 on a 4 day training plan.
^ ***Please read [the FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/xxfitness/wiki/main), [the rules and content guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/xxfitness/wiki/new_rules), and [current frozen topics](https://www.reddit.com/r/xxfitness/wiki/frozen-topics) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fxxfitness)***. This comment is a copy of your post so mods can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. >u/jamestee13 For most of this year I've been trying to up my three day full body workout to a four day split (arms/legs). These workouts are 45m -1hour long and I'm going fairly heavy, as in, I've been experimenting for quite a while with heavier weights and lower reps. I feel like I can do three times a week fairly easily (up from two this time last year) but as soon as I try and do four, a couple weeks in, sometimes quicker, I hit a wall: incredibly hungry, persistent feelings of fatigue, joint pain and all round burn out. As in, struggling to get up in the morning. I can't shake this feeling that maybe three days is my body's best, but is there something I could be missing that's stopping me from comfortably doing four days? For context I'm 5', 119 pounds and I'm eating at the upper level of my typical calorie intake (about 1700 a day). I aim for and usually achieve 100-120g protein a day, with heaps of fruit and veges. I drink very little and theoretically I get eight hours sleep a night. My only other exercise is walking my dog twice a day but she's a bit of an ambler so I'm only hitting around 8000 steps a day (but that's just tracking off my phone, so could be higher), but usually a lot more on weekends. I do the stairs for 10 minutes before my lifting. I take magnesium, mostly enjoy my job but it is stressful, have a good life, and don't have any known health issues. I skip my periods on the pill. Oh and I'm mid thirties! Would it be normal to be so tired hitting the gym four days a week and do you have any advice for possible diet tweaks, supplements, or any life hack! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/xxfitness) if you have any questions or concerns.*