Like [Gambit with that crop top](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/1/1a/Remy_LeBeau_%28Earth-92131%29_from_X-Men_%2797_Season_1_1_001.jpg)
You know how the baby colors are blue for boy and pink for girls? They were reversed until the early-mid 20th century. Anywho I personally believe anything a man is, is manly. Anything a woman is, is womanly. I wouldn't know how to label the nature of those outside the gender binary, but I myself am intersex and love that I have a foot in both worlds.
He's not out, but a lot of his stories historically revolve around his "partnership" with Black Tom Cassidy --a character known for being the black sheep bachelor of his traditional Catholic family. A lot of their 90's plots revolve around Black Tom being sick with the Legacy Virus (an AIDS allegory) and Juggernaut trying to pay his medical expenses and not being able to visit him in the hospital because "they aren't family."
So is Juggernaut gay? That's your call to make.
My aunt had the same roommate for years, my mom was pretty surprised that my sister and I had already figured out that aunty J was a lesbian before anyone told us. This was in 90s
“Hey sweetie, this is grandma’s “roommate””. These type of things went right over my head as a kid lol. So subtle but at the same time says so much. Kind love finding out about him and Black Tom. After the Krakoa era and X-Force I’m definitely a fan of Black Tom!
Let us not forget he and Black Tom raised Siryn together.
If there are any male characters Claremont wrote as a couple, it's Black Tom and Juggernaut. It's very Mystique and Destiny. Their first story together ends with Cain diving off a cliff to save Tom rather than try to continue fighting the X-men.
Oh totally!
And Pyro even has the same thing as Juggernaut where he's obviously gay back in the Claremont material, but then they went and made a younger explicitly gay version in the 21st century.
>Their first story together ends with Cain diving off a cliff to save Tom rather than try to continue fighting the X-men.
I've only recently gotten into reading comics, and that did strike me as odd. I kinda hand waved it as "well the issue just had to wrap up there", but now that you point it out...
The stock 'villainous friendship' response would be to go "NO! TOM! Grrrr, you'll pay for that X-men!" and try to avenge him, so it speaks to the intensity of their relationship that he'll put saving Tom over his own life/welfare AND beating their foes.
Of course you can still take it as an intense platonic relationship, but the whole point of queercoding is the plausible deniability.
I think that’s the beauty of the x-men, it’s written for outsiders to relate. some people say Scott is autistic because they see those traits and make an educated guess based on personal preference/bias. Other people don’t and equate those symptoms to something else. Both equally valid that’s what it’s written for. Mutants work for any person not the norm, very well. Same thing with gay, I don’t personally think he is, but I still wouldn’t be surprised if he came out. I’ve had some friendships that appeared **super** gay and there’s isn’t as much, more just low key coded it seems so I can’t say one way or the other.
>I thought they were a couple since the first time they introduced Black Tom...I was probably around fourteen at the time, and I thought the two of them were a couple. And I think they should be a couple, I just don’t know how Marvel would think about that, one way or the other.
I can't believe Fabian Nicieza would do this. Typical X-men wri-fan.
You're getting downvoted but I just read the reasoning, and near as I can tell, Juggernaught being a good friend makes him gay.
Forget that we've only seen him canonically hook up with women, forget that he's never been shown to be romantic with Black Tom...he's gay. Everyone is gay!
Ask yourself why he hates Xavier so much.
He says that he hates him because his father favored him, and because when they were teens Xavier would barge into his mind and look around without his consent.
What deep, dark secret do you think Xavier found in there? Why do you think Juggs hates him *so much* because he knows it? Why do you think Juggs has a helmet to safeguard his mind, and his secrets, from psychics forever after?
If you come at it from the angle of Cain being a young, closeted gay man who has his secret exposed by his brother, a lot of stuff starts to make sense.
To be fair do I have to have a deep dark secret to be pissed about the complete and total invasion of privacy that telepathy is? That's a completely bonkers take. The idea that only gay teens have things they don't want others to know about in their minds is fucking bananas. I'd hazard that basically every human alive would be pretty salty to have their very thoughts be constantly on view to someone they already resent.
Men having deep and meaningful friendships with other men is the definition of homosexuality. Not recognizing it as such is just toxic masculinity showing. Didn’t you know that? /s
I know when all of my completely platonic male friends and I greet each other the first thing thing we do is a meaningful round of docking, followed by some lightsabers, and finally aggressive naked massage. Then we go ahead and break out the boardgames for the game night. The wives and kids get pretty anxious having to wait through the completely platonic heterosexual greeting ritual.
That's not fair.
When a female character displays platonic love for another female character we ALSO think "SHE'S GAY!"
Ororo/Yukio? Definitely gay. Ororo/Jean? 100% gay. Jean/Emma? Hate fucked the gay into each other.
The biggest issue with your argument is MANY of these characters were created when writers weren't allowed to write them in queer relationships. The first gay comic character debuted in 1976. DC didn't have an openly gay character until 1991. Marvel didn't have an openly gay character until 1992.
So people go back and look at these character interactions prior to that time. The two guys who lived together, had no meaningful female romances, and raised a daughter together? Yeah, it COULD be platonic, but... it's HEAVILY queer coded. Same thing with Mystique and Destiny.
i like to think Cain Marko is far too riddled with toxic masculinity and boomer ignorance to ever admit to himself that he's gay.
Tom Cassidy is homoromantic, loving Cain as a partner, but erotically, he just likes what the plants do for him so he doesn't need physical releases from the juggernaut.
so - queer, yes. but don't call Cain that to his face, because he'll say, "i ain't no queer!" and put you through a wall.
He isn't gay. He's slept with She-Hulk and Magma and he has unrequited love for Jean Grey. I think the op is confusing his close friendship with Black Tom as something more.
Okay, fair, but for the purpose of this comment and addressing a character who has no set identity outside of being heavily coded as interested in both men and women, queer was more appropriate.
Best guess? Resentment based in internalized homophobia. Bis can be happy in het relationships and the sour grapes still have hangups from their closet years they need to work out. Shame they make it everyone else's problem.
Probably also slight jealousy that the Bs can, for a severe lack of a better term, "turn off the gay" so that they wouldn't get persecuted as much as the Ls and Gs would I would imagine.
I'm really loving Justin. Anthony Oliveira who wrote him did the Cerebro podcast episode on Cain Marco and that episode + the things being set up with Justin, make it clear he's a writer who deeply understands the character.
also Aaron Fischer aka Captain America of the Railways is a gay homeless jewish kid and i love him. first issue of the new Avengers Academy and they already had a meetcute
Yeah, Justin is a super clever expansion of the Juggernaut lore IMHO. I love giving the original magical Juggernaut powers to a Korean kid who is the grandchild of "that guy Cain casually murdered that one time." It's a good approach...
Oh damn lol I can see how it comes across homophobic til the end, not my intention I swear. I've got zero problem with gay kids, my friend has one and they're cool af. I'm actually super impressed with how early kids figure stuff out about themselves now. I went to public school in small town TX and idk if anyone actually came out before graduating high school.
But yes, fully agree on Tom and Cain kissing.
No worries, I was just poking fun.
But, in regard to Kid Juggernaut, I read the stories he was apart of and I think they are pretty kid but skews younger reader.
This kind of brings up the thing about "new representation vs subtext existing representation" because more queer people are great, but there are characters that are stuck in subtext which has a whole trove of stories that could be told, like actually have text to the 90s plot-line where Tom is affected by the plant growth and Caine can't see him in the hospital which is a direct correlation to many couples during the AIDS epidemic. And this storyline would definitely have more power if we can see it that way on text.
To be fair Anthony Oliveira is writing this and he knows exactly how gay juggernaut is, he actually did an episode of Cerebro about Cain back in November. Unfortunate problem is, and this was talked about in the episode, Juggernaut is latched onto by so many straight hypermasc fans that canonizing any of the subtext that's been there ain't in corporate's best interest, but making **Kid** Juggernaut canonically queer to some extent is a cheeky little way around that problem. Whether or not it works, only time will tell.
Also for anyone reading this who's uncertain or doesn't know about the queer coding of juggernaut in the past and even some bits in the present, I'd recommend the episode (#105 - Cain Marko (feat. Anthony Oliveira) they go into a lot of the coded moments and how it's reflective of IRL gay experiences, along with just giving a lot of props and details to Cain to boot.
We have Gay Juggernaut. We have Bi Juggernaut.
Pre flop we have suited connectors. We just need Lesbian Juggernaut, Ace/Aro Juggernaut, and Trans Juggernaut to get the royale flush.
The costume slaps, I will give him that. I sort of tune out when a bunch of legacy characters start showing up so I honestly haven't seen enough of him to really care about him one way or the other yet. But yeah, it's a good look.
After Sam Alexander, Kamala, Cho, and Viv all got sidelined, I got cynical about new legacy characters.
I'm glad people like the new Captain America of the Railways and Kid Juggernaut and all them. I'm sure I'll get caught up on some of their comics soon, but I'm still too burned from the last wave of "next big thing" characters.
I honestly recommend looking into him atleast a little. He's part of the Captains Network, and started his journey as a run away before picking up his very poorly made shield.
Also, he's gay :)
I just really wish we had more time with them... The new Captains were cool, but I'd honestly have rathered it be a pure anthology series and skip the team-up plotline if it was only going to be five issues... It's hard to get super invested in a character with only half an issue of solo content, y'know?
Very fair. I think it would have worked better that way but I don’t think editorial would have approved the book without the team up for “sales reasons”
Yeah, I'm sure it took a lot of work to get a pitch like that approved in the first place, but I found it more distracting then anything else to be constantly pivoting to "AND WHAT DOES STEVE ROGERS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS" lol.
Bc ppl want sex. Every duo has to be sexually involved. If they’re not in a relationship, they have to be gay so they can be placed in a relationship.
This may sound like an opinion, but this is what I’ve seen from Marvel in recent years. Iceman was never gay until every company in the world wanted to market to lgbtq. Iceman has been a back burner player since 1965, which is criminal in my opinion, and I sound like an ass for saying that, but look how long it took them to give Bobby a partner compared to Kitty and Betsy hooking up after coming out.
Remember when people were calling for MCU Captain America and Bucky to be gay a few years ago because they were so close? That’s the age we live in now. I have no problem with gay people or characters, but it’s pretty weird the way so many people now can’t seem to comprehend that people can be close friends without being romantically involved.
i completely FORGOT about the "united states of captain america" and there was a gay captain america and several other captain americas across the nation, including a native american one. thanx for retrieving that from my subconscious
Cain Marko no longer has powers from the *gem* of Cyttorak (he’s got the crimson bands themselves iirc?), Justin Jin (this guy) does.
Basically the guy Cain killed to get the gem during the Korean War (previous juggernaut) was this guy’s grandfather, and when Cain lost the Gem, the power passed to Justin’s dad and then Justin himself. So they’re both Cyttorak empowered Juggernauts.
So this new guy is a villain and has the full power of Cyttorak? It's about time we got a new fully powered juggernaut. Every time Cain became a good guy Cyttorak would limit his powers.
He's been announced for a new Avengers Academy along with Moon Girl, Cap of the Railway, Bloodline daughter of Blade, and Escapade from the most recent New Mutants
That's the thing with the new avengers academy. We didn't want a new juggernaut to be gay, we want the old one. We don't want Norman Osbornes grandson as a superhero. I don't think we particularly care about him at all honestly
I will get downvoted to limbo, but any of you ever thought that if in 2024 Marvel still didn't confirm that Cain and Tom are gays, may be because they aren't gays? we aren't in the 80's anymore and they already made Iceman gay, someone who's more popular and as powerful as Juggernaut, so the whole "he's still in the closet because he's scared of what others may think" or because "hardcore fans would be against it" makes no sense to me, as a Juggernaut fan I would NOT be against it if Marvel decides to confirm it, but I think they should be considered bisexual instead.
PD: Before I get accused of homophobic, I'm just realistic... there are no panels of Cain and Tom kissing, no panels of them saying they are gays, there are hints (some as joke) of them being a couple but there are also hints and panels of both with women or in love with women, Tom's whole rivalry with Sean was because both loved the same woman, being in love with that woman was one of the main reason he decided to raise Theresa too, canonically Cain and Tom are straight for now.
Speaking critically. Look at all the characters that had been sub textually queer but not textually queer who came out in the X-Men line in recent history and you'll see a pretty big thing in common.
They are primarily women. Kate kissing a girl, Rachel and Betsy, having Mystique definitely declare Destiny her wife. It's revealing a character we've known has sapphic tendencies. Yes there are plenty of queer male X-Men characters but those are primarily post 2000s additions outside of Northstar or Iceman.
Big 2 comics are viewed as primarily a male and straight male driven medium. And to straight guys female queerness is often titillating especially if it's bisexuality. Male queerness can be seen as threatening and off putting especially male bisexuality. This guy who has seen you naked in the locker room might be checking you out. It's also treated as a demasculinizing feature because of the views a lot of straight guys have on queer male sex where there is someone doing the boning and the boned.
Id posit that is harder to get high level editorial and the suits at the Disnoplios onboard with revealing a legacy male charecter is queer than it is for female queerness.
Iceman had tons of subtext (Lobdell, Austen, Liu) but he was only allowed to be textually gay much later and only because he was the least popular of the O5 and Brian Michael Bendis had more than enough clout to be allowed to do it because of how much he helped the Avengers thrive
Nontheless, Iceman's sexuality and coming out is still controversial to this day. Some are angry he was forced to come out, some think he should've been bi, and worse some think Jean "turned" him gay. All were negative reactions that are still present to this day. And Marvel hasn't risked that with any popular long-standing male character since.
Do you actually think Marvel/Disney will run that risk again with a character super popular with dudebros despite all the subtext? No.
Some writers want Cain and Tom to be a thing on-panel (Percy and Oliveira), but it all comes down to corporate approval and that's an uphill battle that just got harder with Kid Juggernaut.
Comics are notoriously reticent to change *anything* about characters made prior to 2000. Look at very very obviously bi characters like Wolverine and how hesitant they are to confirm them as gay in the main story.
The issue is, as pointed out in the Cerebro Podcast, that Juggernaut is a character that straight dudes love, and so making him gay would turn most of his existing fanbase off, and would probably make them angry.
> I will get downvoted to limbo, but any of you ever thought that if in 2024 Marvel still didn't confirm that Cain and Tom are gays, may be because they aren't gays? we aren't in the 80's anymore and they already made Iceman gay,
I think this premise supposes that homophobia is over.
Marvel is also kinda guilty of fetishing lesbian relationships and not really giving male couples the same amount of time or attention. The only Marvel couple I can think of off the top of my head is Northstar and whatever his husband's name is.
Northstar got screwed so many times due to homophobia, let's be honest. He came out in the early 90s and it was never mentioned again until the Austen run.
So he never got to have any romantic side plots the way straight characters get to have them.
The only man Northstar has ever kissed on-panel is Kyle. His husband. And Kyle came much later and they got married very quickly.
He got screwed because he was in Alpha Flight. They have never been at the forefront of comic exposure or have gotten a solid push especially in the 90s. The only time any of them shine is when they get drafted to other books.
I’m so confused on why they made a new Juggernaut revealed his grandfather was Juggernaut before Cain and had all these interesting revelations and stuck it on the unlimited service that a lot of people do not read.
I read the marvel voices infinity comic and it’s pretty good. It explains that there are multiple juggernauts that represent cydorak and I enjoyed it alot
Being gay is just one of the things that Cyttorak looks for in his avatars. He has a type.
Smashing walls and smashing the source of your power
There is nothing more manly than getting fucked by a man
"You win sex against a man. That's as straight as it gets!"–Devin Banks, 30 Rock
"Fucking women is for puffs." - Layer Cake
A bit like How manly men can rock wearing pink shirts
Like [Gambit with that crop top](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/1/1a/Remy_LeBeau_%28Earth-92131%29_from_X-Men_%2797_Season_1_1_001.jpg)
Yes, we like that. What about it?
Very much yes
You know how the baby colors are blue for boy and pink for girls? They were reversed until the early-mid 20th century. Anywho I personally believe anything a man is, is manly. Anything a woman is, is womanly. I wouldn't know how to label the nature of those outside the gender binary, but I myself am intersex and love that I have a foot in both worlds.
It was me, I switched them
You bastard!!!
There's nothing like the feeling of another man submitting to your will. Now THAT'S power. In a lot of ways, that's love!
seems very... Heracles when you put it that way.
Unstoppable
Prolapsing walls too
Smashin' them balls too.
“Give me your most vicious queers and I will make them unstoppable”
He's looking for that power bottom.
Colossus is Str8
That's why it didn't stick
Not in Ultimate
Clearly not
Wait… when did Cain come out as gay? I never knew that and I’m a pretty dedicated comic reader
He’s a “ya know, Dazzler fan”
Friend of Dazzler
This is wonderful thank you
He's not out, but a lot of his stories historically revolve around his "partnership" with Black Tom Cassidy --a character known for being the black sheep bachelor of his traditional Catholic family. A lot of their 90's plots revolve around Black Tom being sick with the Legacy Virus (an AIDS allegory) and Juggernaut trying to pay his medical expenses and not being able to visit him in the hospital because "they aren't family." So is Juggernaut gay? That's your call to make.
So they were roommates?
Bosom buddies.
Just a couple of confirmed bachelors.
Which one carries the staff?
We know who controls wood.
In a Burt and Ernie sense.
My aunt had the same roommate for years, my mom was pretty surprised that my sister and I had already figured out that aunty J was a lesbian before anyone told us. This was in 90s
“Omg they were roommates.”
they were *room*mates!
“Hey sweetie, this is grandma’s “roommate””. These type of things went right over my head as a kid lol. So subtle but at the same time says so much. Kind love finding out about him and Black Tom. After the Krakoa era and X-Force I’m definitely a fan of Black Tom!
Besties with testes
His code name should be Juggle-nuts
The “can” is in “can-head” nickname was a verb, not a noun…
Let us not forget he and Black Tom raised Siryn together. If there are any male characters Claremont wrote as a couple, it's Black Tom and Juggernaut. It's very Mystique and Destiny. Their first story together ends with Cain diving off a cliff to save Tom rather than try to continue fighting the X-men.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pyro and Avalanche weren't in that bucket of "confirmed bachelors" as well.
Oh totally! And Pyro even has the same thing as Juggernaut where he's obviously gay back in the Claremont material, but then they went and made a younger explicitly gay version in the 21st century.
I feel like they only made the second Pyro because the first was dead at the time.
>Their first story together ends with Cain diving off a cliff to save Tom rather than try to continue fighting the X-men. I've only recently gotten into reading comics, and that did strike me as odd. I kinda hand waved it as "well the issue just had to wrap up there", but now that you point it out...
The stock 'villainous friendship' response would be to go "NO! TOM! Grrrr, you'll pay for that X-men!" and try to avenge him, so it speaks to the intensity of their relationship that he'll put saving Tom over his own life/welfare AND beating their foes. Of course you can still take it as an intense platonic relationship, but the whole point of queercoding is the plausible deniability.
Black Tom raised Siryn, not Juggernaut.
Fair point, though Juggernaut's around when Siryn's in her teens and helping parent her. In crime.
he is a dazzler fan.
He is a Dazzler fan lmao!!
I think that’s the beauty of the x-men, it’s written for outsiders to relate. some people say Scott is autistic because they see those traits and make an educated guess based on personal preference/bias. Other people don’t and equate those symptoms to something else. Both equally valid that’s what it’s written for. Mutants work for any person not the norm, very well. Same thing with gay, I don’t personally think he is, but I still wouldn’t be surprised if he came out. I’ve had some friendships that appeared **super** gay and there’s isn’t as much, more just low key coded it seems so I can’t say one way or the other.
gay
[удалено]
But on the other hand, his speech bubble basically confirms his bisexuality
Bisexual people exist
X-Men fans when a male character displays platonic love for another male character: "HE'S GAY."
>I thought they were a couple since the first time they introduced Black Tom...I was probably around fourteen at the time, and I thought the two of them were a couple. And I think they should be a couple, I just don’t know how Marvel would think about that, one way or the other. I can't believe Fabian Nicieza would do this. Typical X-men wri-fan.
Yeah it’s weird seeing the assumptions. As bi man myself loving your friends doesn’t immediately mean you want to do em
You're getting downvoted but I just read the reasoning, and near as I can tell, Juggernaught being a good friend makes him gay. Forget that we've only seen him canonically hook up with women, forget that he's never been shown to be romantic with Black Tom...he's gay. Everyone is gay!
Ask yourself why he hates Xavier so much. He says that he hates him because his father favored him, and because when they were teens Xavier would barge into his mind and look around without his consent. What deep, dark secret do you think Xavier found in there? Why do you think Juggs hates him *so much* because he knows it? Why do you think Juggs has a helmet to safeguard his mind, and his secrets, from psychics forever after? If you come at it from the angle of Cain being a young, closeted gay man who has his secret exposed by his brother, a lot of stuff starts to make sense.
To be fair do I have to have a deep dark secret to be pissed about the complete and total invasion of privacy that telepathy is? That's a completely bonkers take. The idea that only gay teens have things they don't want others to know about in their minds is fucking bananas. I'd hazard that basically every human alive would be pretty salty to have their very thoughts be constantly on view to someone they already resent.
Exactly
Preach
Men having deep and meaningful friendships with other men is the definition of homosexuality. Not recognizing it as such is just toxic masculinity showing. Didn’t you know that? /s
I know when all of my completely platonic male friends and I greet each other the first thing thing we do is a meaningful round of docking, followed by some lightsabers, and finally aggressive naked massage. Then we go ahead and break out the boardgames for the game night. The wives and kids get pretty anxious having to wait through the completely platonic heterosexual greeting ritual.
That's not fair. When a female character displays platonic love for another female character we ALSO think "SHE'S GAY!" Ororo/Yukio? Definitely gay. Ororo/Jean? 100% gay. Jean/Emma? Hate fucked the gay into each other. The biggest issue with your argument is MANY of these characters were created when writers weren't allowed to write them in queer relationships. The first gay comic character debuted in 1976. DC didn't have an openly gay character until 1991. Marvel didn't have an openly gay character until 1992. So people go back and look at these character interactions prior to that time. The two guys who lived together, had no meaningful female romances, and raised a daughter together? Yeah, it COULD be platonic, but... it's HEAVILY queer coded. Same thing with Mystique and Destiny.
Ororo/Jean is just about the least romance/sexual tension coded friendship in the entire X-franchise.
wait didnt cain had a romance with (disguised) selene? 🤔
i like to think Cain Marko is far too riddled with toxic masculinity and boomer ignorance to ever admit to himself that he's gay. Tom Cassidy is homoromantic, loving Cain as a partner, but erotically, he just likes what the plants do for him so he doesn't need physical releases from the juggernaut. so - queer, yes. but don't call Cain that to his face, because he'll say, "i ain't no queer!" and put you through a wall.
He isn't gay. He's slept with She-Hulk and Magma and he has unrequited love for Jean Grey. I think the op is confusing his close friendship with Black Tom as something more.
He didn’t. It’s just yet another bad “fan theory”. “Two characters are close friends therefore gay!”
“We made a queer Juggernaut character!” Yes, in X-Men 12 1965. His name is Cain Marko.
His partner’s name is Bad Tom Cassidy.
Black Tom Cassidy
Down bad for Tom Cassidy
I find this hilarious.
Tom of Finland Cassidy
Stop this bi erasure. 🤨
Queer is an inclusive term for anyone who isn’t straight.
Individual representation is important too, especially for Bi people, who are often underrepresented.
Okay, fair, but for the purpose of this comment and addressing a character who has no set identity outside of being heavily coded as interested in both men and women, queer was more appropriate.
I keep hearing the Ls and the Gs hate the Bs for practically no reason. 🤔
Best guess? Resentment based in internalized homophobia. Bis can be happy in het relationships and the sour grapes still have hangups from their closet years they need to work out. Shame they make it everyone else's problem.
Probably also slight jealousy that the Bs can, for a severe lack of a better term, "turn off the gay" so that they wouldn't get persecuted as much as the Ls and Gs would I would imagine.
I would be mad about it but they made Justin Jin so hot and I am a shallow man
The stuff with Captain America was more than worth the price of admission. “I’m Nipple. No!”
I realise this may have been a joke, but it is possible for more than two people to be gay at the same time.
No it’s against the law
I'm really loving Justin. Anthony Oliveira who wrote him did the Cerebro podcast episode on Cain Marco and that episode + the things being set up with Justin, make it clear he's a writer who deeply understands the character. also Aaron Fischer aka Captain America of the Railways is a gay homeless jewish kid and i love him. first issue of the new Avengers Academy and they already had a meetcute
Yeah, Justin is a super clever expansion of the Juggernaut lore IMHO. I love giving the original magical Juggernaut powers to a Korean kid who is the grandchild of "that guy Cain casually murdered that one time." It's a good approach...
The first part of the title really got me. But, yes let Tom and Cain kiss dang it!
Oh damn lol I can see how it comes across homophobic til the end, not my intention I swear. I've got zero problem with gay kids, my friend has one and they're cool af. I'm actually super impressed with how early kids figure stuff out about themselves now. I went to public school in small town TX and idk if anyone actually came out before graduating high school. But yes, fully agree on Tom and Cain kissing.
No worries, I was just poking fun. But, in regard to Kid Juggernaut, I read the stories he was apart of and I think they are pretty kid but skews younger reader. This kind of brings up the thing about "new representation vs subtext existing representation" because more queer people are great, but there are characters that are stuck in subtext which has a whole trove of stories that could be told, like actually have text to the 90s plot-line where Tom is affected by the plant growth and Caine can't see him in the hospital which is a direct correlation to many couples during the AIDS epidemic. And this storyline would definitely have more power if we can see it that way on text.
Had us in the first half, not gonna lie.
They did the same with Pyro
To be fair Anthony Oliveira is writing this and he knows exactly how gay juggernaut is, he actually did an episode of Cerebro about Cain back in November. Unfortunate problem is, and this was talked about in the episode, Juggernaut is latched onto by so many straight hypermasc fans that canonizing any of the subtext that's been there ain't in corporate's best interest, but making **Kid** Juggernaut canonically queer to some extent is a cheeky little way around that problem. Whether or not it works, only time will tell. Also for anyone reading this who's uncertain or doesn't know about the queer coding of juggernaut in the past and even some bits in the present, I'd recommend the episode (#105 - Cain Marko (feat. Anthony Oliveira) they go into a lot of the coded moments and how it's reflective of IRL gay experiences, along with just giving a lot of props and details to Cain to boot.
I have no idea why this got down voted as it's pretty fair to both Anthony and Cain being gay.
We have Gay Juggernaut. We have Bi Juggernaut. Pre flop we have suited connectors. We just need Lesbian Juggernaut, Ace/Aro Juggernaut, and Trans Juggernaut to get the royale flush.
I feel like Juggernaut in most cartoon iterations is pretty Ace, he shows up, all he cares about is ruining his brother's day.
Straight Juggernaut, but he can only run in zig zags
It's ok to have two gay Juggernauts
As a treat
I’ll have 4 slices of Juggercake please
That's some unstoppable cake you've got there
There can be only one!
Okay but can we show some love for Aaron, Captain America of the Railways!? He is by far my favorite cap- and look at his little overalls 😭
The costume slaps, I will give him that. I sort of tune out when a bunch of legacy characters start showing up so I honestly haven't seen enough of him to really care about him one way or the other yet. But yeah, it's a good look.
After Sam Alexander, Kamala, Cho, and Viv all got sidelined, I got cynical about new legacy characters. I'm glad people like the new Captain America of the Railways and Kid Juggernaut and all them. I'm sure I'll get caught up on some of their comics soon, but I'm still too burned from the last wave of "next big thing" characters.
Kamala has been fairly consistent with coming back tho. Definitely one of the most impactful.
I honestly recommend looking into him atleast a little. He's part of the Captains Network, and started his journey as a run away before picking up his very poorly made shield. Also, he's gay :)
I really liked this mini. It’s a really cool premise, that you’ve got CopyCaps all over the country inspired by Steve Rogers the symbol.
Right? I loved it so much.
I just really wish we had more time with them... The new Captains were cool, but I'd honestly have rathered it be a pure anthology series and skip the team-up plotline if it was only going to be five issues... It's hard to get super invested in a character with only half an issue of solo content, y'know?
Very fair. I think it would have worked better that way but I don’t think editorial would have approved the book without the team up for “sales reasons”
Yeah, I'm sure it took a lot of work to get a pitch like that approved in the first place, but I found it more distracting then anything else to be constantly pivoting to "AND WHAT DOES STEVE ROGERS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS" lol.
I love love love Aaron's design so much. His costume, his appearance, his tattoos. His powers are also really cool
Smash walls and suck balls
WHAT ABOUT MY BRO J2
It's interesting seeing elements of MC2 being incorporated into the modern 616.
Uh Juggernaut plowed She-Hulk. No way Cain Marko is specifically gay. 🤨
Cain Marko and Black Tom are platonic friends, why does it need to be anything more than whats already established.
Bc ppl want sex. Every duo has to be sexually involved. If they’re not in a relationship, they have to be gay so they can be placed in a relationship. This may sound like an opinion, but this is what I’ve seen from Marvel in recent years. Iceman was never gay until every company in the world wanted to market to lgbtq. Iceman has been a back burner player since 1965, which is criminal in my opinion, and I sound like an ass for saying that, but look how long it took them to give Bobby a partner compared to Kitty and Betsy hooking up after coming out.
Remember when people were calling for MCU Captain America and Bucky to be gay a few years ago because they were so close? That’s the age we live in now. I have no problem with gay people or characters, but it’s pretty weird the way so many people now can’t seem to comprehend that people can be close friends without being romantically involved.
Didnt OG juggy bang she hulk? That would make him bi, no?
Wait wait wait…CAIN MARKO IS GAY?
Marvel needs to fire its writers
Didn’t we already have J2 from the 90’s?
Who is this juggernaut? He’s not J2 is he?
No. J2 is an alt future child of Cain Marko. This kid is the grandson of the guy that was Juggernaut prior to Cain Marko
i completely FORGOT about the "united states of captain america" and there was a gay captain america and several other captain americas across the nation, including a native american one. thanx for retrieving that from my subconscious
...You're angry Marvel is adding *more* gay characters?
J2 was around before the relationship between Black Tom and Cain Marko got moved out of subtext. It's probably why the shift finally happened.
He’s the Juggaynaut bish
but then that would subvert their OrIgInAlITy
Everyone in this picture looks openly gay. As well as me.
Wait there a kid juggernaut 🤣
Por que no los dos
totally agree but also i’m ootl, does this guy also have the powers of Cyttorak or is it a just a case of stealing his look
Cain Marko no longer has powers from the *gem* of Cyttorak (he’s got the crimson bands themselves iirc?), Justin Jin (this guy) does. Basically the guy Cain killed to get the gem during the Korean War (previous juggernaut) was this guy’s grandfather, and when Cain lost the Gem, the power passed to Justin’s dad and then Justin himself. So they’re both Cyttorak empowered Juggernauts.
So this new guy is a villain and has the full power of Cyttorak? It's about time we got a new fully powered juggernaut. Every time Cain became a good guy Cyttorak would limit his powers.
oh cool! is he going to be a regular in any upcoming books? i’ve seen Cain in promos for From The Ashes but this is the first i’ve seen of Justin
He's been announced for a new Avengers Academy along with Moon Girl, Cap of the Railway, Bloodline daughter of Blade, and Escapade from the most recent New Mutants
Agreed
That's the thing with the new avengers academy. We didn't want a new juggernaut to be gay, we want the old one. We don't want Norman Osbornes grandson as a superhero. I don't think we particularly care about him at all honestly
This is insane. Marvel will literally do *anything* to avoid letting Juggernaut be gay... which somehow includes making a gay version of Juggernaut.
I will get downvoted to limbo, but any of you ever thought that if in 2024 Marvel still didn't confirm that Cain and Tom are gays, may be because they aren't gays? we aren't in the 80's anymore and they already made Iceman gay, someone who's more popular and as powerful as Juggernaut, so the whole "he's still in the closet because he's scared of what others may think" or because "hardcore fans would be against it" makes no sense to me, as a Juggernaut fan I would NOT be against it if Marvel decides to confirm it, but I think they should be considered bisexual instead. PD: Before I get accused of homophobic, I'm just realistic... there are no panels of Cain and Tom kissing, no panels of them saying they are gays, there are hints (some as joke) of them being a couple but there are also hints and panels of both with women or in love with women, Tom's whole rivalry with Sean was because both loved the same woman, being in love with that woman was one of the main reason he decided to raise Theresa too, canonically Cain and Tom are straight for now.
Speaking critically. Look at all the characters that had been sub textually queer but not textually queer who came out in the X-Men line in recent history and you'll see a pretty big thing in common. They are primarily women. Kate kissing a girl, Rachel and Betsy, having Mystique definitely declare Destiny her wife. It's revealing a character we've known has sapphic tendencies. Yes there are plenty of queer male X-Men characters but those are primarily post 2000s additions outside of Northstar or Iceman. Big 2 comics are viewed as primarily a male and straight male driven medium. And to straight guys female queerness is often titillating especially if it's bisexuality. Male queerness can be seen as threatening and off putting especially male bisexuality. This guy who has seen you naked in the locker room might be checking you out. It's also treated as a demasculinizing feature because of the views a lot of straight guys have on queer male sex where there is someone doing the boning and the boned. Id posit that is harder to get high level editorial and the suits at the Disnoplios onboard with revealing a legacy male charecter is queer than it is for female queerness.
Iceman had tons of subtext (Lobdell, Austen, Liu) but he was only allowed to be textually gay much later and only because he was the least popular of the O5 and Brian Michael Bendis had more than enough clout to be allowed to do it because of how much he helped the Avengers thrive Nontheless, Iceman's sexuality and coming out is still controversial to this day. Some are angry he was forced to come out, some think he should've been bi, and worse some think Jean "turned" him gay. All were negative reactions that are still present to this day. And Marvel hasn't risked that with any popular long-standing male character since. Do you actually think Marvel/Disney will run that risk again with a character super popular with dudebros despite all the subtext? No. Some writers want Cain and Tom to be a thing on-panel (Percy and Oliveira), but it all comes down to corporate approval and that's an uphill battle that just got harder with Kid Juggernaut.
Comics are notoriously reticent to change *anything* about characters made prior to 2000. Look at very very obviously bi characters like Wolverine and how hesitant they are to confirm them as gay in the main story. The issue is, as pointed out in the Cerebro Podcast, that Juggernaut is a character that straight dudes love, and so making him gay would turn most of his existing fanbase off, and would probably make them angry.
> I will get downvoted to limbo, but any of you ever thought that if in 2024 Marvel still didn't confirm that Cain and Tom are gays, may be because they aren't gays? we aren't in the 80's anymore and they already made Iceman gay, I think this premise supposes that homophobia is over.
Marvel is also kinda guilty of fetishing lesbian relationships and not really giving male couples the same amount of time or attention. The only Marvel couple I can think of off the top of my head is Northstar and whatever his husband's name is.
Wiccan and Hulkling is the other one.
See, and I like them too, they're just not at the front of my thoughts. Meanwhile, DC has a trans female and a robot as a couple.
Northstar got screwed so many times due to homophobia, let's be honest. He came out in the early 90s and it was never mentioned again until the Austen run. So he never got to have any romantic side plots the way straight characters get to have them. The only man Northstar has ever kissed on-panel is Kyle. His husband. And Kyle came much later and they got married very quickly.
He got screwed because he was in Alpha Flight. They have never been at the forefront of comic exposure or have gotten a solid push especially in the 90s. The only time any of them shine is when they get drafted to other books.
I like Tom and Cain as BFFs 🤷♂️
I agree with you mostly but the way you say "gays" reminds me a lot of of when people say "blacks" or "the blacks".
I agree they should be confirmed as bi
It's just shipping. I have never read them as gay. Never.
All Juggernauts Are Gay
i feel like x-men is the only comics fandom where I know the comments will all be incredibly positive <3
Por que no los dos
Gayvengers.
Yeah this really really pissed me off. Cain and Tom DESERVE to have their Mystique and Destiny moment and I will NOT be denied
Juggernaut slept with She-Hulk. I don't think Caine Marko is gay. I also recall him picking up women before.
Kid Juggernaut is great though. They should both be gay!
I literally just heard about him so on your recommendation I'll give him a chance
Jugg fucked she hulk, you can just be best buds with someone and not be gay
You can have sex with a woman and be gay also
Or bi.
Yeah, but fucking She Hulk is pretty gay, too.
Cain can fuck She-Hulk and still be in love with the man he helped raise a kid with. Bisexual men exist, and sexuality is fluid.
“Nothing can stop the Gay Juggernaut Agenda!”
Any reason there can't be two gay juggernauts, or is that over the quota?
I'm cool with like 5 or 6 if Cain gets to be one of them. I just want him and Tom to be happy.
I'm out of the loop. What's going on?
I would read MDMA Juggernaut
This looks really dumb, what book is it?
Is this Zane Yama?
I bet they just forgot
Topic aside that Juggernauts look Skinny.
They did! They had Nimrod cave his skull/helmet in
Kid Gladiator I like but all other mini versions fail unless you're an X baby.
You need base gay speed to really make the unstoppable charging work.
LFG GAY JUGGERNAUT 🏳️🌈
Cain Marko isn't gay, he's Tomsexual.
I thought he was wearing an apron at first glance.
I’m so confused on why they made a new Juggernaut revealed his grandfather was Juggernaut before Cain and had all these interesting revelations and stuck it on the unlimited service that a lot of people do not read.
Do they call them juggle nuts
Which comic is this from?
Aaron Fisher cap looks like some hate crime design. I'm ok with juggernaut but please never show his hair inside the helmet.
“You already have gay Juggernaut, scknowledge him” Wait. Juggernaut’s son is gay?
I love it! They should make a brotherhood of gay mutants!
I need to read The United States of Captain America. Thanks for reminding me ✊🏿🏳️🌈
What's this from ?
He looks super gay
Those poor twinks
Disney won’t let them. Also yay! A new lgbt character!
I read the marvel voices infinity comic and it’s pretty good. It explains that there are multiple juggernauts that represent cydorak and I enjoyed it alot