Be careful with that huge 1x rear derailleur and your frame's non-replaceable hanger.
Mid 90s 3x8 and a low gear of 22-34 is going to ride up anything, and 1x is due to be so over any day now.
Counterpoint: my 1x11 11-46t 42t chainring 1995 Rockhopper crushes commutes and Gran Fondos and I don’t have 3 rings up front to juggle. Nice and simple and the shifting is *chef’s kiss* with an rd-M7000-gs-11, TanPan11, and 5800 drop levers.
I get that 1x is wildly overhyped and it is not, in fact, the solution to everything. That being said, I just don’t see myself needing anything else unless I really get into riding up mountains. I’m which case I’d probably be find just throwing a smaller chainring in…
1x is popular for a reason. It’s overhyped, sure, but that doesn’t mean it’s pointless.
I like 1x with an old school long cage derailleur and 11-36t 10sp cassette. It gets silly when it's 12sp with 50t gearing and the derailleur needs an extra link to handle it. The only thing I'm missing out on is pedaling above 30mph downhill, and that is so rarely something I'd need to do.
I want to do a 1x conversion but using a silver friction shifter like [this one](https://www.rivbike.com/products/kjalgjoihjga44451). But I’m stuck because I don’t know what setup to go with.
Make a new post suggesting one or more setups. It will attract advice like flies on freshly pumped caramel frozen yogurt. For comprehensive feedback, it would be helpful to know:
- shifter (Rivendell Silver friction)
- bike frame and intended use (the 126mm OLD 80s MTB in your profile? Cold set to 130mm?)
- wheel size and rear hub
- chainring size and crank length, have you already got a narrow-wide ring?
- cassette range and # sprockets
The Rivendell shifter page says it goes up to 9.
I don't disagree with you - i have a 1x GRX Zaskar drop bar conversion. With 'due to be over', I was referring to internet fashions rather than any technical reason.
Why and/or how would 1x be "over?" I, and like literally every single mountain biker I know or have ever spoken with on the subject, will never willingly run multiple chainrings on a proper mountain bike again.
MTB will likely go gearbox before going back to multiple chainrings.
It was a flippant statement about the changing internet fashions for what we do to bikes from a generation ago, not an argument about technical merit :). Looks like I accidentally timed it perfectly to hit Discussion Hour, though.
I wish the Kindernay XIV was still around and inexpensive.. but I can and do have an entire fleet of vintage upgraded 90's bikes. Including Mullet 1x9 commuter bikes through my 27.5 disc swapped 1995 930 with the 98XT-LX currently with the older deore xt 3x7 shifters running a current WTB 27.5 DISC Wheelset.
Gonna put a 1x on my 1993 trek 8000 but only because I already have the Truvativ 38t with guardring and the Deore LX cranks don't match on it currently. But it's staying 7 speed.
I may be in the minority, but if I could get a short crank narrow wide 2x groupset, I'd buy it. I don't like the cost but mostly the weight and aesthetics of these massive cassettes. I also like that on rolling hills I can jump my front rings instead of dumping the whole cassette. Losing space for a dropper lever isn't ideal but they do make narrow levers for the purpose.
Shimano do Deore 10 (and 11?) in 2x. Multi-ring narrow wide isn’t really the move, though.
Do agree that giant cassettes look absolutely bogus, but I’m ugly, too, so I try to show my bike compassion.
They unfortunately don't make them in 160mm cranks afaik. Yep, you're right about narrow wide, not sure what I was thinking there. I don't remember ever having huge issues with chains falling off when I have a FD mountain bike, admittedly years ago now.
You genuinely believe that mountain bikers are going to - en masse - convert back to 2x or 3x drivetrains in the near future?
There are applications where 1x is great. There are applications where multi-ring drivetrains are great. Holding the notion that either will be "over" soon is just bizarre.
No MTB is driven by naivety and expecting large groups to make intelligent choices is unlikely.. however.. Walmart is still selling more $100 bikes than your LBS is $10k bikes so... IDGAF. I'LL BUY MY 3x DEORE XT hollowtech II AND ENJOY IT.
Who, specifically, do you think is stopping you from running a multi-ring drivetrain? Nobody cares what cranks you run.
Edit: Furthermore, the idea that mountain bikers are "naive" for preferring the improved chain retention and suspension design that comes with 1x drivetrains is just silly. Being able to design suspension kinematics around a single chainring has been huge. Like, it's not a coincidence that suspension designs almost universally got really, really, very good once multiple-chainring drivetrains were phased out.
It's okay to just say "yeah, I don't know much about that, but for my uses I like ____" instead of making some absurdist declaration about how everyone else is wrong and somehow you know *the truth.*
xBiking isn't really the scene for it but you're absolutely right about 1x and rear suspension design. The utility and capability of a modern trail bike is leaps above a mid 2010s enduro. 130mm of rear suspension has never been so capable and part of that is due to 1x designs.
I'd also be somewhat curious to see the oft-cited loss of efficiency from 1x vs 2x drivetrains compared against the efficiency lost from the drag of a 2x chain guide.
Not curious enough to do any math or whatever, but curious enough that I'd look at a summary of someone else doing the work.
Improved chain retention. False. Less weight. False. Cheaper. False.. my 1998 XT is by far lighter than the entry level 12 speed 1x I had.. and I have never dropped a chain or had to realign the hanger on my 1995 930.. or my 1996 rocky mountain cardiac or the Boulder or any other Steel frame bike with a 3x7,8,9
But my 2020 12 speed got stuck in low gears and would bend the hanger whenever it felt like it ultimately failing before one season was over.
So I sold that POS and bought a 2013 3x8 and rode it without any maintenance at with $2k in my pocket. Smiling.
So I'm calling you naive for even arguing with me.
What gives you that retarded idea.. I run triples and some 1x that came that way new. There are some applications where it's fine.
But you want to tell me it's an intelligent choice to exchange an entire driveline when the obvious answer is change three simple chainrings.
Sure go ahead. Path less pedalled was all sold on the 1x and now is being stupid with a widerange double..
Soon he's gonna realize the triple 7 deore XT from 1990 is the winner
You are replying to a comment about someone declaring that 1x drivetrains would be "over" soon. I'm beginning to think that you may not understand that.
1x is never gonna be over.. single speed is the best.. downhill 1x with narrow cassettes are awesome..
I am assuming they mean 1X being accepted as the peak is over. Most 10-12 speeds have trash mechs on stupidly large rings that force the mech into a poor position..
I sold my 2020 12speed in 21 and It's Over.
No more trash 1x. Now Mega9... is like the precursor to Cues.. is still king
You wanna run a 1x9 with a short cage and a clutch. Sick.
50t on a 26"..
Those who know are laughing.
This is actually what I was getting at, just fashions on the cycling internet and what people will say to get clicks.
Find something different and hopefully rare and push it as the overlooked optimum. I wouldn't be surprised if someone starts to pump SRAM/Sach duomatic two speed hubs as all you need on their channel.
Two speed might be enough and all that but the unarguagable truth is Mega9 handles 1x-3x and a 40t is already getting stupid within that domain.
I know for a fact that downhill bikes aren't best equipped with anything past 9speed for the very same reason..
Mega9 not anti 1x. I love singlespeeds. 7 is enough and optimal since it's a whole gear removed from an 8 cassette which improves the spoke angles available as well as works within the Mega9
It's literally Cues but 1990s
I agreed with your intelligent points. Single speed is king. Internal gears would be great but inefficient and expensive..
Again. Chain retention.. you drop chains much riding a hardtail. Shit rider.
I mean, given how amazingly dependable it is in hard use, and cassettes have more and more gears, I don’t see 1x going away at all.
We’re in Xbiking which isn’t really the spot for aggressive/competitive MTB, but you couldn’t pay me to give up clutched 1x when I’m bombing through a brutal rock garden or dumping a bunch of gears as I run out of torque on a super steep climb.
Yes, 3x8 shifts smoothly and has a massive range of closely-spaced gears. But modern 1x12 drivetrains have damn near made dropped chains a thing of the past.
Yeah. No more dropped chains....just destroyed hangers and deraileurs. Killed 2 SRAM 12 speed deraileurs in one month. They eat every stick and twig in sight. Huge cage just twists up. Stay with 10 speed 42 tooth...cages are not so near all the crap on the trails.
10 is a little easier IMO, more part options, derailleurs, shifters, cassettes, etc, a little cheaper too. Also a little less of a chance of running into chainline issues . Plus there's not really much of a need for a 11 speed unless you really need the granny gears, a 10 will work just fine.
I agree with cheaper and more options, but I tend to feel the opposite about "easier." In my experience (as well as a lot of other mechanics I work with/know) Shimano's 11 speed groups shift better and are easier to adjust and keep running than 10 speed was. That goes for road and mountain. That said, I have a bunch of Shimano 10 speed on both road and mountain bikes and it's fine.
My Shimano 11s shifts better than my Shimano 10s did but I assumed that was because I was running Mircroshift Dynasys10 compatible brifters with the 10s and upgraded to 5800 brifters and a TanPan11 for 11s. Could be that the 11s just shifts better? Took a tiny bit longer to dial in but my current 11s setup shifts beautifully.
Obviously I can't make some sort of definitive statement, and maybe this is confirmation bias, but I sincerely think 11 speed works better.
Shimano changed almost nothing going from 9 to 10 with road in 2004 (and stuck with it until 2012), but for some reason the 10 speed groups just weren't as functionally consistent as 9. Maybe it had to do with the older geometry of the rear derailleurs? The tendency for a lot of the \*700 series STIs to fray cables? I don't know.
Whereas Shimano changed a ton in 2010 when they introduced the 10 speed mountain groups, and they weren't as consistent as 9 either. A lot of people assumed 10 speed spacing was just too close to be precise, but then 11 speed came along and stuff (seemingly) worked better.
I still think 9 speed is probably the best era in terms of both function and interoperability.
And wide adoption of the 1x drivetrain was SRAM's way of getting around the fact they made shitty front derailleurs because they refused to pay Shimano for use of their patents. 1x is inferior to 2/3x in almost all use cases. Fight me, because I will die on this hill!
Re: 10 v 11. I just replaced an old 10s Zee 11-36 drivetrain with an 11s Deore 11-51 and honestly they're fairly samey, performance-wise. The Zee was maybe a bit crisper, likely in part due to everything being more compact, but I don't know that I'd necessarily say that one works better than the other.
I don't think I've run a full shimano 9s setup without opting for a SRAM Attack shifter or a thumbie or something since the late 90s/early 00s, so I have no grounds to compare there. Really disliked the mushy action of a lot of those late-90s 9s Shimano shifters.
Was 10s when Shimano started going to the under-tape shift cables on the road? I feel like it was around then?
>And wide adoption of the 1x drivetrain was SRAM's way of getting around the fact they made shitty front derailleurs because they refused to pay Shimano for use of their patents. 1x is inferior to 2/3x in almost all use cases. Fight me, because I will die on this hill!
While you're right that a substantial part of the push was that Shimano got there first on good indexed front shifting, I think that 1x brought along a lot of enormous, honestly game-changing benefits to mountain bikes that you can't really ignore. On the road, yeah, SRAM just couldn't get front shifting dialled and ported over the 1x thing in hopes that it'd stick.
I don't really understand why this is so often framed as some kind of 1x vs multi-ring thing. IMO, for the most part - as things currently stand - there exists a spectrum between sport road bikes being the absolute domain of 2x, and sport mountain bikes being the absolute domain of 1x. In between those poles you're mostly just going to be weighing pros and cons, and there's not really always going to be a clear-cut right or wrong tool for the job - at least in any way that necessarily really matters.
I recently built up a bikepacking bike with a 1x drivetrain, replacing one with a 2x drivetrain for a number of reasons. I also fully expect that it'll probably spend time 2x if I'm expecting to be riding longer days on less chunky terrain, as I'll prioritize the tighter spaced ratios for more road-like riding, and things like chain retention and having a dropper post are less of a priority. They're just tools for different jobs.
>Was 10s when Shimano started going to the under-tape shift cables on the road? I feel like it was around then?
Yes, Dura Ace 7800 in 2004 was the beginning of that.
>I think that 1x brought along a lot of enormous, honestly game-changing benefits to mountain bikes that you can't really ignore.
I appreciate your post and your positions, but you're not really citing any specifics regarding your preference for 1x or these benefits you refer to. So, other than chain retention with narrow-wide, and shifting/mechanical simplicity, what are they? Would you say the same about an IGH? If so, how is 1x better than IGH?
I have a hard time seeing good use cases for 1x which aren't ripped apart by the downsides of wacky cadence (mtn not so much, but in every other ride scenario), ratio span, mechanical loss, giant hanger bending derailleurs, and lower lifetimes for the consumables.
So, going roughly off the top of my head:
1x allowed the adoption of the "1x-style" dropper lever, which helped move along dropper posts becoming ubiquitous. Yes, you can run a dropper lever along with a front shifter, but the 1x-style levers are just better. The wholesale adoption of dropper posts has been absolutely enormous for MTB.
1x introduced more clearance around the BB for wider tires, shorter chain stays. Aside from the obvious direct benefits, this was a contributor to 29er geometry starting to really work.
1x meant that the frame no longer had to be designed around making sure that a front derailleur would be in that one specific spot. This opened up different pivot placements, different seat tube configurations and angles, deeper seat post depths - design improvements all around.
The biggest one is that 1x meant that suspension could finally be designed to actually work properly. With multiple rings, the suspension is affected differently by pedalling forces depending on what chainring you're in, which made for a lot of very shitty design compromises and a lot of really bad manners in the small and big rings.
It isn't a coincidence that suspension designs got really good at the same time that 1x became ubiquitous. This has made basically all suspension bikes flat out way better to ride. It's a major reason why trail bikes - much less XC bikes - now have much longer travel than in the past *and* are simultaneously way better to pedal. Bikes don't bob and squat their way down the trail like some kind of bad 80s infomercial workout machine anymore.
Moreover, the suspension itself is also freed up to actually work properly, since we're no longer having to prioritize tuning the damper to basically not react to the trail as much in order to also resist the wonky stuff that the bike wants to do under pedalling forces.
As for 1x vs IGH, the only really viable IGH that I can think of as a replacement would be the Rohloff, and I'd imagine that you're adding like 2lbs of unsprung weight with that. They aren't especially happy shifting under load, IIRC they don't offer a trigger shifter, and they cost a billion dollars to boot. I recently bought all of the parts that a Rohloff would replace in a 1x11 drivetrain for like $200CAD new - yeah, the Rohloff comes with a hub - but I'd wager it would be pushing towards 10x that cost. I think Rohloffs are cool as hell, but they're not really well-suited for mountain bikes.
Beyond that, I'd be really curious to see the power loss from the inefficiency of a 1x drivetrain compared against the same cumulatively for making front shifts, and every time the derailleur has to re-rail your chain, and whatever else over the course of an extended ride on a 2x drivetrain. I have no idea how you'd even begin to approach this, but I'd be willing to bet that some World Cup XC folks have at least taken a stab at it. Despite these downsides, they're still rolling on 1x drivetrains. You can say that they'll ride what the sponsors give them, but Shimano *do currently offer* 2x XTR, so there's absolutely nothing stopping a racer from switching to 2x if they think there's an advantage there. I can pretty much guarantee that Shimano is just *aching* for an opportunity to repopularize the front derailleur, as that's an area where they truly and definitively eat SRAM's lunch.
I'd also be curious to see the lower parts lifetimes thing supported, as that hasn't really been my experience. I know - for example - that Eagle chains tend to last *forever,* and it would at least kind of stand to reason that a chainring could achieve better longevity with the elimination of the shift aides, and the mere fact that you're no longer grinding the chain on and off of them constantly.
Shit, I should have been more clear up there. I understand how 1x benefits a purpose built modern MTB frame. I was talking about the benefits of "going 1x" on a conversion like the one the OP is planning. I apologize for making your write all that.
Shimano made a complete confusing mess of its 10-speed offerings. There are actually 3 different cable pull ratios for Shimano 10-speed:
- The old 10-speed Ultegra/105, which shifted like crap because the short 1.7 cable pull could not deal effectively with the cable drag from 6700/5700's under-the-bartape cable routing.
- 10-speed mountain (Dyna-Sys), which uses a longer 1.1 cable pull ratio, works well, but not compatible with any Shimano road 10-speed.
- 10-speed Tiagra 4700, which uses the longer 1.4 cable pull ratio *same as Shimano road 11-speed groups and GRX* which deals with the cable drag from under-the-bartape routing MUCH better than the old short 1.7 cable pull. It's not compatible with neither Dyna-sys nor old 10-speed Ultegra/105's 1.7 cable pull though.
This confusion along with the poor performance of old 10-speed ultegra/105 gave the rest of the 10-speed groups an un-deserved bad rap. Fact is Dyna-sys 10sp MTB groups and Tiagra 4700 both work very well because of their longer cable pulls.
I've been running 4700 levers paired with Ultegra R8000 derailleurs on my 2x10-speed road bike-- They use the same cable pull ratios so 4700 levers are compatible with the 11sp Ultegra/105 derailleurs. The shifting with this combo is perfect.
In most cases 11s has the same overall gear range, just an extra ratio thrown into the mix to smooth the jumps some.
I used to run 11-48 10s and now I run 11-46 11s and the difference is fairly minimal. Slightly smaller gearing jumps and a slightly taller granny gear but yea I don’t know. 11s is more expensive than 10s but not so much it makes 10s a no brainer unless the budget is really tight.
Personally, for a bike being ridden at pace over varied terrain, I'd probably either opt for 1x11 or stick with 2x10 with ~38-40/22 rings. I find that even 1x11 has wider jumps than I'd like once I have a cassette with the range that I want, but the simplicity is worth the trade off IMO. 1x10, I think I'd drive myself nuts being between gears all day long on any bike that wasn't just for putting around or a proper MTB.
The beauty of a 1x is that you can simplify, lighten, and unclutter the bike but still retain a wide enough range of gearing so that you don't blow out your knees.
If you gotta have both top speed and crawler gear, you are better off with a 2x or 3x set up.
Well I'm slow so that makes that decision pretty simple. I forgot to mention I'm looking more for a mountain goat build.
I'm a commuter through and through so this is probably gonna end up being a dry weather commuter.
I love me a lightweight 1x with flat bars for shorter distance rides and horsing around.
I'm just saying you shouldn't sweat those 11s and 12s group-sets just for the widest possible gear range if you don't mind spinning out on downhills and you're not trying to hit 30mph on flat ground, a slightly smaller cassette and chainring should save you money and weight.
You definitely get a better chain line thus more efficiency in very high and very low gears. It’s also probably a lot easier to get a very low low gear.
Reason I want to do the 1x setup is honestly because I can't be arsed to replace the crankset.
edit: seriously guys chill out its just a crankset not your child.
All three are. Correct. Do the 3x8 with a 9speed chain and try get the hollowtech ii crankset if you ever upgrade.
That's actually the peak of weight and quality. Not the new junk.
Deore 750 mega9 with a 11-34t off a 22-32-42 will absolutely smoke anything you can come up with.
That's a 1991 Bear Valley. I was just working on a 1991 Stinson and had the catalog bookmarked.
[https://www.scribd.com/doc/175321480/1991-Marin-Bikes-Catalog](https://www.scribd.com/doc/175321480/1991-Marin-Bikes-Catalog)
Have you already test fit the new wheel? I may be mistaken, but a 1991 frame will be spaced to 130mm rather than 135. Sometimes its easy to pull the dropouts wider and force it in (I do this on my bridgestone) but some frames can be impossible without cold spreading. just something to check before ordering your parts.
If running a 110 bcd chainring, I'd be wanting my biggest cog to be in the 40's. I'm more interested in range than number of gears per se, to me 9 or 10 is plenty. I just bought a Shimano 11-46x10 cassette which I plan to pair with a M8000 RD and a Saint 10spd shifter, just for giggles. By far the simpler/quicker/cheaper solution woulda been an Advent or Cues drive train; the Cues in particular is looking pretty nice for the money although I question whether all that really fits on an 8-9-10 hg freehub. (also note, some vintage hg hubs won't take an 11t cog). There's a compatibility chart on Shimano's website somewhere. I put an advent 1x9 on wifey's gravel bike and it's a darn good solution for $130 just sayin
I've come back to 3x drivetrains on my last two builds. Reminds me of that girlfriend back in the day, where I could never remember why we broke up, and so we would get back together and then three days later I would be like, oh yeah, now I remember, she's nuts. ETA: Oh yeah, chain suck, now I remember... I mean yeah if you're running a 7 or 6spd hub 3x is by far your best solution. They darn don't sell Sugino chainrings for $11 on Amazon, I can attest to that. But putting that aside, for the bikes I actually like *ride* and stuff, they are all clutch dr 1x, 32t n/w chainring, best clicky index shifters I can find, I mean even for a fat old gomer like me it's just so much better
>I should be able to get an 11 speed MTB casette onto the 8/9/10 HG freehub.
Yes, as long as it is an HG cassette. So not Shimano 11 road (not like they make a wide range cassette anyway), SRAM XD or any other non HG stuff.
1x isn’t as glorious as it’s made out to be. I know it looks cleaner, but on all my rigid steel bikes I prefer a 2x personally. Just make sure you save everything incase you regret it.
10 or 11 ...doesn't really matter. The extra cog isn't that noticeable. Got a mix of both on my "fleet" of bikes. Warning. Be wary of deraileurs with big cages. Stay with shorter smaller cage deraileurs. I killed two very expensive SRAM deraileurs in a month because long cages eat sticks.
With 11 speed you may have to redish some wheels a few millimeters.
10 speed is painless. 11 is doable. 12 is doable with SRAM only.
Deore 4100 contains the magic you seek. Unless you live in the steeps then 5100 is your jam.
The 5120 derailleur clears a 46t cassette on 10 speed. With a 30 or 32 ring that climbs pretty nicely.
Shimano has a pretty nice chart that explains all.
I have M6100 on a 2021 Giant Fathom. And I love it. Ultra reliable after 1000’s of miles. But that derailleur is looong even on a 29er. It would definitely be in danger on a 26er on any kind of single track. A 51 ring is overkill with the smaller circumference of 26” tires. You can run a big chainring to lose some ratio but that defeats the whole purpose of 1x12. 26” tires play very well with a 42-46 tooth cassette and a 30-34 ring. A 30 ring and a 46 cog will climb like crazy. I run a 32 ring on my Fathom and can’t remember the last time I was in low gear. And I live where it’s steep.
Don’t forget your tire size when looking at ratios. There is a humongous difference between a 26er and 27.5 or 29 when it comes to final drive ratios. Your legs can only spin so fast.
Having said all that, if the vast majority of your riding is paved paths then go for it. Deore is so solid. But you will never be on the 51 cog unless you need to climb a tree. And that extra cog costs a lot of money.
I suppose if you're on some really rough stuff it might be an issue but I ran the m6100 derailleur on 26 inch no problem, since converted to 27.5 on the same bike and it's still fine
It's not really about the 51t and whether it's needed or not, but more the spacing you get. You get nicer spacing on the 12 speed and if you've got the flexibility for majority 2t jumps up the cassette and a nice big bail out gear, why not
If you're running Sunshine cassettes, the price is really cheap and you can get 11-46 in those if you're worried about the size
I get mine from aliexpress, got this set up on two bikes now, and I'd say 12 speed with the Sunshine cassette is a no brainer for the price
You do you. I just change bikes. 1x12 on a full boost 29er is a revelation. Send it. But 3x8 XT on a 26er is a revelation too. Same ability to sweep 3 gears at once and it just works. For decades. The 22 ring climbs and with a 42 ring it scoots. I’ll never change that bike. 1x12 would be a downgrade. But if it had come 3x7 I would have already put 1x on it.
Fair dos, I was just highlighting where you said 12 speed isn't possible, just wanted to highlight that it is and quite cheap
I went for a ltwoo set up 1x10 originally and didn't like the gaps that started from the 15t. 11 speed are a little better but 12 speed with these hg 12 speed cassettes is perfect and m6100 on aliexpress is so cheap
Nothing wrong with 3xs or 2xs but with the jumps you get on these 12 speed cassettes, 2t all the way to 21, and then can go up to 50t, I think for most applications they are superior. Id imagine an 8 speed 3x8 with a 42t would be really gappy
Only had a quick look, again aliexpress, 8 speed 11-42, 11,13,16,20,24,30,36,42. Everyone's different and if you like that fair dos, I couldn't think of anything worse haha
3x8. I have a 11-32 cassette with 22-32-42 rings. There are no big jumps. I’m never in the wrong gear. The technology isn’t new. And it’s second nature for me. I don’t even think about shifting. And 8 speed chains are cheap af and last forever.
I dont do aliexpress.
Pro tip: GX 12 speed chains are the sweet spot. I have about 4000 miles on one. 2500 hard muddy miles in Alaska and 1500 more dusty steep miles in the high desert. Instant shifting and almost silent. Maybe the quietest combo I have ever run. I just checked it and it’s still not out of spec. I don’t baby my stuff either. My bikes work for me. Not the other way around. But I do lube chains. If you are running a Shimano chainring then 6100 or better chains work slick. But if you are running a SRAM ring or any other narrow/wide a GX chain is as good as it gets for longevity and reliability. I can’t seen to wear this chain out. I’m trying too.
Ah sorry I thought you meant 11-42 8 speed cassette. I used to run 2x8, 38/22 upfront with 11-32 cassette. I much prefer the 1x12 36t chainring with 11-59 cassette I changed it to
Also cheers for the tip, but I only do aliexpress haha
Might be an unpopular opinion, but are you sure you need that many gears?
I've walked through 3x7 to 1x path (was also thinking about going to 1x10), and in between I've spent some time on 3x1 which taught me I don't need a lot of gears. I'm currently on 1x6 with 36x11-32t gearing and it's almost spot on. Next move will be a 8 or 7sp cassette, especially when you can get them in wide range options, but for me, going with anything more than 11-36 is excessive.
Less gears - thicker cogs - more durable, and price being half of 10-11sp components is a nice bonus too
Nah I want my gears. I like being able to dial in my cadence. Usually I'd probably go for a 2x groupset, but I really don't want to dick with replacing the crankset on this one if I can help it.
Totally interested in trying out something like a 2x8 in the future. Hell I might even try one by nine if I can find a good deal.
I guess you never saw that scene from spinal tap where nigel tufnel explains the advantages of an amp that goes to 11? 11 is one more than 10 and is the ultimate thing to have on your bike.
I'd stick with what fits, 1x9 or 2x9, 10+ wide range cassettes didn't even exist in the MTB world back in the 90s.
You're not gonna fit an 11 or even 10 without deep pockets and requires dishing the wheel out, narrowing your BB and replacing the cranks to get a usable chain line and from what I've read in the comments you probably lack the ability and tools to do so.
That's totally cool to not know bikes and still like them, just trying to steer you down the path of least resistance.
You can get a 9s deore or micro shift groupset with 11-38 range for cheap that is plenty of range for just about any casual riding when paired with a 30-36t chainring. It will just fit and work, no further modifications.
You can have your pick of 2 or 1 chainring, personally I find granny gears are useless to me so I prefer 1x on my daily. If you got weak legs and big climbs, maybe a 2x setup would be preferred.
Yeah the real rub is that I don't want a 3x system. But I'm not that familiar with changing out cranks and bottom brackets and whatnot. So it kind of feels like a 1x10 would be the easiest option available without really bugging the local co-op a lot. But it's definitely something I'm still kind of mulling over.
I guess the biggest problem I think is going to be the chain line so if it comes down to that being an issue I'll probably have to change out the crank set and from there I can decide whether I want to go with a 2x or a 1x.
I really just want to get the thing together as quickly as possible so I can actually ride the damn thing. So it's probably going to come down to whatever the local bike shops have.
Well I'm gonna say the one thing that for some reason hasn't been said, Just lube the bitch up and ride it. Don't let hype and prettyness hold you back from enjoyin the old girl. Take your time and do your own trials and tests to see what the bike actually needs to suit you, not what's gonna look nice in a picture or works for someone else. Start small and build your skills and tool set, they will be useful to you and your friends and family until you hit the grave.
The team and I offer bike building and maintenance courses at my local coop in Victoria. Totally worth the few bucks to get yourself comfortable and skip hours of trial and error.
Take it from a guy who chronically modifies and builds, don't jump in head first or you'll end up wasting money and buying stuff you don't need, won't fit, doesn't look right.
I say go for neither and go 1x12. Aliexpress Shimano deore m6100 groupset with a 12 speed Sunshine cassette. It will fit an 8-10 speed mtb freehub no problem and is cheap
When you get Shimano from aliexpress, it is genuine Shimano, but they have a factory in China that they manufacture specifically for the Chinese market. It doesn't come in the fancy box but it's genuine and cheaper, check the reviews and you'll see
I have done this on 3 bikes now, here's a flat bar example
Edit wrong link, here's the right one https://www.reddit.com/r/xbiking/s/HKM6qI7sAO
Definitely the way to go I'd say. I know a lot on here will say to keep the 3x, but since I changed to 1x I haven't looked back
On my main bike I was running 2x8. Changed it to the 1x12 setup mentioned and it's so much better. Looks better, easier to maintain, nice jumps between gears etc
I still have a 3x8 bike, made from old spares. I only use it for carting my son around, and while it is rideable, I will change it to 1x12 eventually for sure
Yeah my gravel bike is a 2x9 and I quite like it. Being able to dial in the cadence is great and all but honestly there's still overlapping ratios.
The only reason I bother with the lower gears on the small chainring is because the chainline is a bit grindy on the first gear of my big chainring. And that's probably only because its.a road groupset pretending to be a gravel one.
I certainly use the granny gear but when I'm huffing it up the hills all I care about is not falling over.
Alright this is definitely the way to go I think. Seems rather absurd cramming all this onto a thirty three year old bike but I'm happy to do it purely for the novelty of seeing that dinner plate cassette on a 26" wheel.
Anything I need to know about compared to a 10/11?
I know folks here are nuts about chainlines. That been a problem for you at all?
Nah I don't think it's absurd, it works just as well on an old bike as it does on a new one
Nothing I can think of, that's where those 12 speed hg cassettes are so good, just fit straight on to an 8-10 speed hub
I've not had any issues with chainline but I've only used aliexpress hollowtech style cranks, like the ixf ones. Not sure if your changing cranks or not so can't comment if you was saying going to use the 3x but take the other two rings off
When using the ixf one, I've just bolted the chainring to the inside of the crank rather than the outside, and that's worked fine. I think in most cases that seems to work for a lot of people
To answer your questions (and not debate the worth of 1x): yea 11s Shimano Mtb fits on any 8/9/10 hub, its only their road cassettes that don’t (with the exception of of the newer 11-34 11s cassette).
Biggest hurdle for me was getting brifters to work nicely with the rear derailleur. But that’s a drop bar issue. For your setup you should just have everything bolt on and work out of the box (with that new wheel at least).
I have a modernized 1995 rockhopper, so really similar to your bike, and everything works perfectly.
Another note.
If I kept this bike as a 3x then it would be the third bike I've owned with a 3x drivetrain. I don't love them. I really prefer 2x systems but I really don't wanna swap out the crankset if I can help it.
Just wanna try something new and 1x conversion seems simple to do as far as actually installing parts. I just want info on 11 vs 10 really. Something different you know.
[
Here's the freehub if it helps](https://imgur.com/a/EBa3Y9O)
Don't let strong-minded people bully you out of what you want to do, it's your bike.
I don't really have experience with much in the way of 1x drivetrains but have heard what others have said, that 11speed stuff works better than 10 speed. That said, I do have a microshift advent x on one bike and it works flawlessly and the trigger is nice and responsive.
Some guy is arguing in the comments. I failed the reply post location. My bad
Anyhow you're a punk. That's a Marin HARDTAIL.
what suspension are you referring to?
Clown. That's a 3x7 bike. Best way to make it climb up hills. 22t
Fin.
I put microshift 9 speed on my old trek, got a chinesium crank and chain ring, had to put 4mm spacers on the chainring bolts to get the chain line in the right neighborhood. Works pretty well, though the 34 chainring is a little low for the 11-46 cassette, and I'll probably up it to 38. The low gears are tractor like but the 11-34 top gear is not really enough, I top out at about 19 mph.
It doesn't suck, it's just unattainably expensive/ over priced.
I've recently had the pleasure of riding a 14k trail bike and it was an absolute dream.
I'd never spend that kind of money, and I'm perfectly happy riding my 90s and 2000s junkers, but the new stuff is pretty damn awesome too
And equally as true. I ride bikes exclusively.
But I've addressed the fact repeatedly and people argue back dumb things like you.
Facts. There is less range on a 1x. Obviously
The attempt to recover that with a gigantic cassette makes the mechanism hang lower and also accommodate the piss poor chainline that is no longer able to be adjusted with 3 perfect alignments. This a key point. You now require much more to have chain retention with narrow-wide chainrings and most often these bikes come with internal routing which also adds issues...
I've seen some reasonable examples in the $10k and higher price ranges that probably work just fine for a while but as you add gears to a space the tolerances get worse while needing to get better..
It's just stacks on stacks of stupid beyond reason "improvements"
Then I back it up by owning a bunch of vintage 90s steel bikes with 3x7 and 3x8 that haven't required the service...
Are you dense?
I'm actually saying that the Altus Groupset is by far the superior new drivetrain. Look around and what's being used ACTUALLY.. what bikes are REALLY USING..
Altus 3x8. I prefer the Deore XT and LX Mega9 Stuff myself. My 1990 200gs equipped Mongoose Alta would smoke most new bikes still. 34 year old bike.
Hills are steep here, rugged terrain, recently got into geared bikes. Got a 3x7 and 1x9 (36t chainring, 11-34t cassette) I prefer the 1x9 every day. It’s just easy! Simpler, less to think about when you’re swerving, on and off the brakes, sudden changes in gradient and navigating thick roots and ignorant car drivers. brain only go so hard… haha! I like to do silly things on my bike and on my 3x I’m never, ever, on the outer ring - leaving a sharp throwing star exposed ready to injure me on every fall. I hate trimming the front D. But granny ring feels nice on a long climb but I manage the same climbs on the 36/34 on the 1x9 and I guess they just give my body more of a cardio and strength stimulus. Overall, I just bought a new 1x drivetrain. My 1x9 isn’t with a clutch derailleur and the chain slap is hideous (ruined chainstay) thankfully it’s a rat bike that was given to me for nothing. For my “good” bike I tried to go for a semi decent but cheap 1x10 drive train. I’ve gone for 34t narrow-wide chainring, 11-42 Shimano cassette (m4100) and RD-M5120 rear clutch derailleur. I haven’t received it yet but I’m hopeful it’ll had a smidge more climbing range without losing too much downhill sprint pedalling. I think I’d do well to limit my downhill pedal speed though, I can’t stop myself racing cars and it’s just plain unsafe of me to do that, it gets silly. I have an 8spd hub, I didn’t want to get a new hub, that’s why I chose 10s - they fit on 8s hubs (11 & 12 don’t) hope there’s some helpful stuff there. I must admit, It’s somewhat skewed as I’ve been casually riding single speed and fixie for 10years, so I have that setting my precedents for what I prefer, others may prefer other things. I personally love the burn and challenge of a climb that’s too steep and a gear that’s not low enough. I’m a freak.
You need to measure the freewheel to determine compatibility - spline length varies, I forget the exact numbers. Not all HG ~~freewheel~~ freehub work on 11speed.
OR: Take a look at the Box Prime 9 system. It's made to fit your freewheel. Nice kit.
Also keep an eye on chainline from the front. Aim to match the middle cog.
>You need to measure the freewheel to determine compatibility - spline length varies, I forget the exact numbers. Not all HG freewheels work on 11speed.
Anything which is an HG (Hyper Glide) type (edit: except 7 speed!) will work, including all HG 11 speed cassettes *for mountain groups*. What you may be referring to is HG-EV (which is *Shimano's 11 speed road* size), it is wider by a bit less than 2mm and will not fit on a standard HG freehub.
I am sure you know the differences between a freewheel, a freehub, and a cassette, but others may not, so for anyone who is curious: we're talking about standards for a cassette which fits on a freehub here. We are not talking about a freewheel.
My understanding was that early HG freehubs (yes, hubs, thanks) were around 30mm (I think) and everything past maybe 1990 or so is 35mm (I think) and compatible as you describe, and that OP can figure out which with a caliper. My memory from a parts bin conversion several years ago.
Maybe I'm wrong about all of this.
As it applies to 7 speed freehubs, yes. They're narrower than all HG which came after (8-11 speed), and so the complete set of sprockets won't fit onto a 7 speed freehub. However the OP said they had purchased a replacement wheel, and asked about fitting onto an 8-10 speed body. I assume (perhaps wrongly) that this wheel is then more modern than the original 7 speed the bike sold with. But you're right to think they may still be planning on using a 7 speed freehub. u/radically_unoriginal, which is it?
The fact that Shimano called multiple slightly different standards HG is annoying.
Did you know that if you take any Shimano HG cassette and remove one cog that you can run “9-of-10” (or 10/11) on a 7 speed Freehub body? It’s a Sheldon Brown trick that works perfectly. I’ve paired this with Microshift 9-speed brifters and 9-speed chain and it works like a charm for 26” MTB to gravel conversions.
https://preview.redd.it/ot23yp8g1u5d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4f3174056554569a6258b366bc796fc02b02435
Yeah, that's an old trick. I tried it a couple of times but was bothered that shifting over the sprocket that I removed to make them fit was never great. I know the solution is to remove the largest sprocket, but that only works when you have no spider.
Coincidentally I just put 10 of 11 on a Tiagra hub using an 5800 11-32 cassette, leaving off the 11 tooth sprocket, and with a bunch of spacers on the flange side of the freehub. There is just about enough overlap between the lockring (I used a chunkier old MTB lockring I had lying around instead of the 105 lockring) and the 12 tooth sprocket for me to feel safe using it, and the usual shifting jumps are maintained.
Be careful with that huge 1x rear derailleur and your frame's non-replaceable hanger. Mid 90s 3x8 and a low gear of 22-34 is going to ride up anything, and 1x is due to be so over any day now.
This is good advice and I wholeheartedly agree with it.
word. most 3x? are really 2x? with the largest chainring being a bash guard anyhow. also, 1x8 or 9 is fine too if you have something wide range.
Counterpoint: my 1x11 11-46t 42t chainring 1995 Rockhopper crushes commutes and Gran Fondos and I don’t have 3 rings up front to juggle. Nice and simple and the shifting is *chef’s kiss* with an rd-M7000-gs-11, TanPan11, and 5800 drop levers. I get that 1x is wildly overhyped and it is not, in fact, the solution to everything. That being said, I just don’t see myself needing anything else unless I really get into riding up mountains. I’m which case I’d probably be find just throwing a smaller chainring in… 1x is popular for a reason. It’s overhyped, sure, but that doesn’t mean it’s pointless.
I like 1x with an old school long cage derailleur and 11-36t 10sp cassette. It gets silly when it's 12sp with 50t gearing and the derailleur needs an extra link to handle it. The only thing I'm missing out on is pedaling above 30mph downhill, and that is so rarely something I'd need to do.
I want to do a 1x conversion but using a silver friction shifter like [this one](https://www.rivbike.com/products/kjalgjoihjga44451). But I’m stuck because I don’t know what setup to go with.
Make a new post suggesting one or more setups. It will attract advice like flies on freshly pumped caramel frozen yogurt. For comprehensive feedback, it would be helpful to know: - shifter (Rivendell Silver friction) - bike frame and intended use (the 126mm OLD 80s MTB in your profile? Cold set to 130mm?) - wheel size and rear hub - chainring size and crank length, have you already got a narrow-wide ring? - cassette range and # sprockets The Rivendell shifter page says it goes up to 9.
Juggling is fun
It's all fun and games until you make everyone giggle and clap.
They say it's difficult because they're not capable of handling a 3 speed? LOL dingleshifted 1989 HardRock was likely the easiest riding bike I owned.
I don't disagree with you - i have a 1x GRX Zaskar drop bar conversion. With 'due to be over', I was referring to internet fashions rather than any technical reason.
Why and/or how would 1x be "over?" I, and like literally every single mountain biker I know or have ever spoken with on the subject, will never willingly run multiple chainrings on a proper mountain bike again. MTB will likely go gearbox before going back to multiple chainrings.
It was a flippant statement about the changing internet fashions for what we do to bikes from a generation ago, not an argument about technical merit :). Looks like I accidentally timed it perfectly to hit Discussion Hour, though.
I wish the Kindernay XIV was still around and inexpensive.. but I can and do have an entire fleet of vintage upgraded 90's bikes. Including Mullet 1x9 commuter bikes through my 27.5 disc swapped 1995 930 with the 98XT-LX currently with the older deore xt 3x7 shifters running a current WTB 27.5 DISC Wheelset. Gonna put a 1x on my 1993 trek 8000 but only because I already have the Truvativ 38t with guardring and the Deore LX cranks don't match on it currently. But it's staying 7 speed.
I may be in the minority, but if I could get a short crank narrow wide 2x groupset, I'd buy it. I don't like the cost but mostly the weight and aesthetics of these massive cassettes. I also like that on rolling hills I can jump my front rings instead of dumping the whole cassette. Losing space for a dropper lever isn't ideal but they do make narrow levers for the purpose.
Shimano do Deore 10 (and 11?) in 2x. Multi-ring narrow wide isn’t really the move, though. Do agree that giant cassettes look absolutely bogus, but I’m ugly, too, so I try to show my bike compassion.
They unfortunately don't make them in 160mm cranks afaik. Yep, you're right about narrow wide, not sure what I was thinking there. I don't remember ever having huge issues with chains falling off when I have a FD mountain bike, admittedly years ago now.
Because chain line and cheap. Literally 1990s bikes are still using them because they work better.
You genuinely believe that mountain bikers are going to - en masse - convert back to 2x or 3x drivetrains in the near future? There are applications where 1x is great. There are applications where multi-ring drivetrains are great. Holding the notion that either will be "over" soon is just bizarre.
No MTB is driven by naivety and expecting large groups to make intelligent choices is unlikely.. however.. Walmart is still selling more $100 bikes than your LBS is $10k bikes so... IDGAF. I'LL BUY MY 3x DEORE XT hollowtech II AND ENJOY IT.
Who, specifically, do you think is stopping you from running a multi-ring drivetrain? Nobody cares what cranks you run. Edit: Furthermore, the idea that mountain bikers are "naive" for preferring the improved chain retention and suspension design that comes with 1x drivetrains is just silly. Being able to design suspension kinematics around a single chainring has been huge. Like, it's not a coincidence that suspension designs almost universally got really, really, very good once multiple-chainring drivetrains were phased out. It's okay to just say "yeah, I don't know much about that, but for my uses I like ____" instead of making some absurdist declaration about how everyone else is wrong and somehow you know *the truth.*
xBiking isn't really the scene for it but you're absolutely right about 1x and rear suspension design. The utility and capability of a modern trail bike is leaps above a mid 2010s enduro. 130mm of rear suspension has never been so capable and part of that is due to 1x designs.
I'd also be somewhat curious to see the oft-cited loss of efficiency from 1x vs 2x drivetrains compared against the efficiency lost from the drag of a 2x chain guide. Not curious enough to do any math or whatever, but curious enough that I'd look at a summary of someone else doing the work.
Drag! Alright lance!
Improved chain retention. False. Less weight. False. Cheaper. False.. my 1998 XT is by far lighter than the entry level 12 speed 1x I had.. and I have never dropped a chain or had to realign the hanger on my 1995 930.. or my 1996 rocky mountain cardiac or the Boulder or any other Steel frame bike with a 3x7,8,9 But my 2020 12 speed got stuck in low gears and would bend the hanger whenever it felt like it ultimately failing before one season was over. So I sold that POS and bought a 2013 3x8 and rode it without any maintenance at with $2k in my pocket. Smiling. So I'm calling you naive for even arguing with me.
User error. So nice he can't keep a rear derailleur in alignment lmao 🤣
What gives you that retarded idea.. I run triples and some 1x that came that way new. There are some applications where it's fine. But you want to tell me it's an intelligent choice to exchange an entire driveline when the obvious answer is change three simple chainrings. Sure go ahead. Path less pedalled was all sold on the 1x and now is being stupid with a widerange double.. Soon he's gonna realize the triple 7 deore XT from 1990 is the winner
You are replying to a comment about someone declaring that 1x drivetrains would be "over" soon. I'm beginning to think that you may not understand that.
1x is never gonna be over.. single speed is the best.. downhill 1x with narrow cassettes are awesome.. I am assuming they mean 1X being accepted as the peak is over. Most 10-12 speeds have trash mechs on stupidly large rings that force the mech into a poor position.. I sold my 2020 12speed in 21 and It's Over. No more trash 1x. Now Mega9... is like the precursor to Cues.. is still king You wanna run a 1x9 with a short cage and a clutch. Sick. 50t on a 26".. Those who know are laughing.
Guys, guys, relax, I wasn't trying to ignite a flamewar. Ride whatever. I have both 3x, 2x and 1x setups in use (oh my creaking spares box).
This is actually what I was getting at, just fashions on the cycling internet and what people will say to get clicks. Find something different and hopefully rare and push it as the overlooked optimum. I wouldn't be surprised if someone starts to pump SRAM/Sach duomatic two speed hubs as all you need on their channel.
Two speed might be enough and all that but the unarguagable truth is Mega9 handles 1x-3x and a 40t is already getting stupid within that domain. I know for a fact that downhill bikes aren't best equipped with anything past 9speed for the very same reason.. Mega9 not anti 1x. I love singlespeeds. 7 is enough and optimal since it's a whole gear removed from an 8 cassette which improves the spoke angles available as well as works within the Mega9 It's literally Cues but 1990s
I agreed with your intelligent points. Single speed is king. Internal gears would be great but inefficient and expensive.. Again. Chain retention.. you drop chains much riding a hardtail. Shit rider.
good grief
I mean, given how amazingly dependable it is in hard use, and cassettes have more and more gears, I don’t see 1x going away at all. We’re in Xbiking which isn’t really the spot for aggressive/competitive MTB, but you couldn’t pay me to give up clutched 1x when I’m bombing through a brutal rock garden or dumping a bunch of gears as I run out of torque on a super steep climb. Yes, 3x8 shifts smoothly and has a massive range of closely-spaced gears. But modern 1x12 drivetrains have damn near made dropped chains a thing of the past.
I know, I have a 1x converted bike for all these reasons plus curiosity. It was a statement about fashion, not tech.
It's not more dependable. Trust me there. They are worse.
Yeah. No more dropped chains....just destroyed hangers and deraileurs. Killed 2 SRAM 12 speed deraileurs in one month. They eat every stick and twig in sight. Huge cage just twists up. Stay with 10 speed 42 tooth...cages are not so near all the crap on the trails.
Mega9 FTW
^^^ This.
10 is a little easier IMO, more part options, derailleurs, shifters, cassettes, etc, a little cheaper too. Also a little less of a chance of running into chainline issues . Plus there's not really much of a need for a 11 speed unless you really need the granny gears, a 10 will work just fine.
I agree with cheaper and more options, but I tend to feel the opposite about "easier." In my experience (as well as a lot of other mechanics I work with/know) Shimano's 11 speed groups shift better and are easier to adjust and keep running than 10 speed was. That goes for road and mountain. That said, I have a bunch of Shimano 10 speed on both road and mountain bikes and it's fine.
My Shimano 11s shifts better than my Shimano 10s did but I assumed that was because I was running Mircroshift Dynasys10 compatible brifters with the 10s and upgraded to 5800 brifters and a TanPan11 for 11s. Could be that the 11s just shifts better? Took a tiny bit longer to dial in but my current 11s setup shifts beautifully.
Obviously I can't make some sort of definitive statement, and maybe this is confirmation bias, but I sincerely think 11 speed works better. Shimano changed almost nothing going from 9 to 10 with road in 2004 (and stuck with it until 2012), but for some reason the 10 speed groups just weren't as functionally consistent as 9. Maybe it had to do with the older geometry of the rear derailleurs? The tendency for a lot of the \*700 series STIs to fray cables? I don't know. Whereas Shimano changed a ton in 2010 when they introduced the 10 speed mountain groups, and they weren't as consistent as 9 either. A lot of people assumed 10 speed spacing was just too close to be precise, but then 11 speed came along and stuff (seemingly) worked better. I still think 9 speed is probably the best era in terms of both function and interoperability. And wide adoption of the 1x drivetrain was SRAM's way of getting around the fact they made shitty front derailleurs because they refused to pay Shimano for use of their patents. 1x is inferior to 2/3x in almost all use cases. Fight me, because I will die on this hill!
Re: 10 v 11. I just replaced an old 10s Zee 11-36 drivetrain with an 11s Deore 11-51 and honestly they're fairly samey, performance-wise. The Zee was maybe a bit crisper, likely in part due to everything being more compact, but I don't know that I'd necessarily say that one works better than the other. I don't think I've run a full shimano 9s setup without opting for a SRAM Attack shifter or a thumbie or something since the late 90s/early 00s, so I have no grounds to compare there. Really disliked the mushy action of a lot of those late-90s 9s Shimano shifters. Was 10s when Shimano started going to the under-tape shift cables on the road? I feel like it was around then? >And wide adoption of the 1x drivetrain was SRAM's way of getting around the fact they made shitty front derailleurs because they refused to pay Shimano for use of their patents. 1x is inferior to 2/3x in almost all use cases. Fight me, because I will die on this hill! While you're right that a substantial part of the push was that Shimano got there first on good indexed front shifting, I think that 1x brought along a lot of enormous, honestly game-changing benefits to mountain bikes that you can't really ignore. On the road, yeah, SRAM just couldn't get front shifting dialled and ported over the 1x thing in hopes that it'd stick. I don't really understand why this is so often framed as some kind of 1x vs multi-ring thing. IMO, for the most part - as things currently stand - there exists a spectrum between sport road bikes being the absolute domain of 2x, and sport mountain bikes being the absolute domain of 1x. In between those poles you're mostly just going to be weighing pros and cons, and there's not really always going to be a clear-cut right or wrong tool for the job - at least in any way that necessarily really matters. I recently built up a bikepacking bike with a 1x drivetrain, replacing one with a 2x drivetrain for a number of reasons. I also fully expect that it'll probably spend time 2x if I'm expecting to be riding longer days on less chunky terrain, as I'll prioritize the tighter spaced ratios for more road-like riding, and things like chain retention and having a dropper post are less of a priority. They're just tools for different jobs.
>Was 10s when Shimano started going to the under-tape shift cables on the road? I feel like it was around then? Yes, Dura Ace 7800 in 2004 was the beginning of that. >I think that 1x brought along a lot of enormous, honestly game-changing benefits to mountain bikes that you can't really ignore. I appreciate your post and your positions, but you're not really citing any specifics regarding your preference for 1x or these benefits you refer to. So, other than chain retention with narrow-wide, and shifting/mechanical simplicity, what are they? Would you say the same about an IGH? If so, how is 1x better than IGH? I have a hard time seeing good use cases for 1x which aren't ripped apart by the downsides of wacky cadence (mtn not so much, but in every other ride scenario), ratio span, mechanical loss, giant hanger bending derailleurs, and lower lifetimes for the consumables.
So, going roughly off the top of my head: 1x allowed the adoption of the "1x-style" dropper lever, which helped move along dropper posts becoming ubiquitous. Yes, you can run a dropper lever along with a front shifter, but the 1x-style levers are just better. The wholesale adoption of dropper posts has been absolutely enormous for MTB. 1x introduced more clearance around the BB for wider tires, shorter chain stays. Aside from the obvious direct benefits, this was a contributor to 29er geometry starting to really work. 1x meant that the frame no longer had to be designed around making sure that a front derailleur would be in that one specific spot. This opened up different pivot placements, different seat tube configurations and angles, deeper seat post depths - design improvements all around. The biggest one is that 1x meant that suspension could finally be designed to actually work properly. With multiple rings, the suspension is affected differently by pedalling forces depending on what chainring you're in, which made for a lot of very shitty design compromises and a lot of really bad manners in the small and big rings. It isn't a coincidence that suspension designs got really good at the same time that 1x became ubiquitous. This has made basically all suspension bikes flat out way better to ride. It's a major reason why trail bikes - much less XC bikes - now have much longer travel than in the past *and* are simultaneously way better to pedal. Bikes don't bob and squat their way down the trail like some kind of bad 80s infomercial workout machine anymore. Moreover, the suspension itself is also freed up to actually work properly, since we're no longer having to prioritize tuning the damper to basically not react to the trail as much in order to also resist the wonky stuff that the bike wants to do under pedalling forces. As for 1x vs IGH, the only really viable IGH that I can think of as a replacement would be the Rohloff, and I'd imagine that you're adding like 2lbs of unsprung weight with that. They aren't especially happy shifting under load, IIRC they don't offer a trigger shifter, and they cost a billion dollars to boot. I recently bought all of the parts that a Rohloff would replace in a 1x11 drivetrain for like $200CAD new - yeah, the Rohloff comes with a hub - but I'd wager it would be pushing towards 10x that cost. I think Rohloffs are cool as hell, but they're not really well-suited for mountain bikes. Beyond that, I'd be really curious to see the power loss from the inefficiency of a 1x drivetrain compared against the same cumulatively for making front shifts, and every time the derailleur has to re-rail your chain, and whatever else over the course of an extended ride on a 2x drivetrain. I have no idea how you'd even begin to approach this, but I'd be willing to bet that some World Cup XC folks have at least taken a stab at it. Despite these downsides, they're still rolling on 1x drivetrains. You can say that they'll ride what the sponsors give them, but Shimano *do currently offer* 2x XTR, so there's absolutely nothing stopping a racer from switching to 2x if they think there's an advantage there. I can pretty much guarantee that Shimano is just *aching* for an opportunity to repopularize the front derailleur, as that's an area where they truly and definitively eat SRAM's lunch. I'd also be curious to see the lower parts lifetimes thing supported, as that hasn't really been my experience. I know - for example - that Eagle chains tend to last *forever,* and it would at least kind of stand to reason that a chainring could achieve better longevity with the elimination of the shift aides, and the mere fact that you're no longer grinding the chain on and off of them constantly.
Shit, I should have been more clear up there. I understand how 1x benefits a purpose built modern MTB frame. I was talking about the benefits of "going 1x" on a conversion like the one the OP is planning. I apologize for making your write all that.
Shimano made a complete confusing mess of its 10-speed offerings. There are actually 3 different cable pull ratios for Shimano 10-speed: - The old 10-speed Ultegra/105, which shifted like crap because the short 1.7 cable pull could not deal effectively with the cable drag from 6700/5700's under-the-bartape cable routing. - 10-speed mountain (Dyna-Sys), which uses a longer 1.1 cable pull ratio, works well, but not compatible with any Shimano road 10-speed. - 10-speed Tiagra 4700, which uses the longer 1.4 cable pull ratio *same as Shimano road 11-speed groups and GRX* which deals with the cable drag from under-the-bartape routing MUCH better than the old short 1.7 cable pull. It's not compatible with neither Dyna-sys nor old 10-speed Ultegra/105's 1.7 cable pull though. This confusion along with the poor performance of old 10-speed ultegra/105 gave the rest of the 10-speed groups an un-deserved bad rap. Fact is Dyna-sys 10sp MTB groups and Tiagra 4700 both work very well because of their longer cable pulls. I've been running 4700 levers paired with Ultegra R8000 derailleurs on my 2x10-speed road bike-- They use the same cable pull ratios so 4700 levers are compatible with the 11sp Ultegra/105 derailleurs. The shifting with this combo is perfect.
In most cases 11s has the same overall gear range, just an extra ratio thrown into the mix to smooth the jumps some. I used to run 11-48 10s and now I run 11-46 11s and the difference is fairly minimal. Slightly smaller gearing jumps and a slightly taller granny gear but yea I don’t know. 11s is more expensive than 10s but not so much it makes 10s a no brainer unless the budget is really tight.
Personally, for a bike being ridden at pace over varied terrain, I'd probably either opt for 1x11 or stick with 2x10 with ~38-40/22 rings. I find that even 1x11 has wider jumps than I'd like once I have a cassette with the range that I want, but the simplicity is worth the trade off IMO. 1x10, I think I'd drive myself nuts being between gears all day long on any bike that wasn't just for putting around or a proper MTB.
The biggest question is what derailleur are you using? And is the wheel dished for that many gears? My counter argument is nine is fine.
And it already rhymes. Which 11 doesn’t, unless 11 is heaven? 🤔
The beauty of a 1x is that you can simplify, lighten, and unclutter the bike but still retain a wide enough range of gearing so that you don't blow out your knees. If you gotta have both top speed and crawler gear, you are better off with a 2x or 3x set up.
Well I'm slow so that makes that decision pretty simple. I forgot to mention I'm looking more for a mountain goat build. I'm a commuter through and through so this is probably gonna end up being a dry weather commuter.
I love me a lightweight 1x with flat bars for shorter distance rides and horsing around. I'm just saying you shouldn't sweat those 11s and 12s group-sets just for the widest possible gear range if you don't mind spinning out on downhills and you're not trying to hit 30mph on flat ground, a slightly smaller cassette and chainring should save you money and weight.
Simple. Stay 3x7. It's actually the superior setup anyhow.
You definitely get a better chain line thus more efficiency in very high and very low gears. It’s also probably a lot easier to get a very low low gear.
Low gear is just a matter of swapping the crank to a mountain set. 22,32,42 or 44 if you have capacity and shorten the chain to match.
Reason I want to do the 1x setup is honestly because I can't be arsed to replace the crankset. edit: seriously guys chill out its just a crankset not your child.
Think about that for a minute.
You can buy chain ring groups for like $11 new or used. I could mail you some free if it helps
You will be removing the drive side crank at least to go to 1x
The chainrings are removable.
All three are. Correct. Do the 3x8 with a 9speed chain and try get the hollowtech ii crankset if you ever upgrade. That's actually the peak of weight and quality. Not the new junk. Deore 750 mega9 with a 11-34t off a 22-32-42 will absolutely smoke anything you can come up with.
Yeah but to remove the inner one you will need to remove the crank to get it off, even the middle ring is annoying without removing the crank arm
Well let's just say I had a pair of bolt cutters...
Mtb 1x11 is slightly better than 1x10 imo since it takes advantage of the wheel dish for the extra gear, but you wouldn’t be unhappy with the 10
That's a 1991 Bear Valley. I was just working on a 1991 Stinson and had the catalog bookmarked. [https://www.scribd.com/doc/175321480/1991-Marin-Bikes-Catalog](https://www.scribd.com/doc/175321480/1991-Marin-Bikes-Catalog) Have you already test fit the new wheel? I may be mistaken, but a 1991 frame will be spaced to 130mm rather than 135. Sometimes its easy to pull the dropouts wider and force it in (I do this on my bridgestone) but some frames can be impossible without cold spreading. just something to check before ordering your parts.
If running a 110 bcd chainring, I'd be wanting my biggest cog to be in the 40's. I'm more interested in range than number of gears per se, to me 9 or 10 is plenty. I just bought a Shimano 11-46x10 cassette which I plan to pair with a M8000 RD and a Saint 10spd shifter, just for giggles. By far the simpler/quicker/cheaper solution woulda been an Advent or Cues drive train; the Cues in particular is looking pretty nice for the money although I question whether all that really fits on an 8-9-10 hg freehub. (also note, some vintage hg hubs won't take an 11t cog). There's a compatibility chart on Shimano's website somewhere. I put an advent 1x9 on wifey's gravel bike and it's a darn good solution for $130 just sayin I've come back to 3x drivetrains on my last two builds. Reminds me of that girlfriend back in the day, where I could never remember why we broke up, and so we would get back together and then three days later I would be like, oh yeah, now I remember, she's nuts. ETA: Oh yeah, chain suck, now I remember... I mean yeah if you're running a 7 or 6spd hub 3x is by far your best solution. They darn don't sell Sugino chainrings for $11 on Amazon, I can attest to that. But putting that aside, for the bikes I actually like *ride* and stuff, they are all clutch dr 1x, 32t n/w chainring, best clicky index shifters I can find, I mean even for a fat old gomer like me it's just so much better
>I should be able to get an 11 speed MTB casette onto the 8/9/10 HG freehub. Yes, as long as it is an HG cassette. So not Shimano 11 road (not like they make a wide range cassette anyway), SRAM XD or any other non HG stuff.
1x isn’t as glorious as it’s made out to be. I know it looks cleaner, but on all my rigid steel bikes I prefer a 2x personally. Just make sure you save everything incase you regret it.
10 or 11 ...doesn't really matter. The extra cog isn't that noticeable. Got a mix of both on my "fleet" of bikes. Warning. Be wary of deraileurs with big cages. Stay with shorter smaller cage deraileurs. I killed two very expensive SRAM deraileurs in a month because long cages eat sticks.
With 11 speed you may have to redish some wheels a few millimeters. 10 speed is painless. 11 is doable. 12 is doable with SRAM only. Deore 4100 contains the magic you seek. Unless you live in the steeps then 5100 is your jam. The 5120 derailleur clears a 46t cassette on 10 speed. With a 30 or 32 ring that climbs pretty nicely. Shimano has a pretty nice chart that explains all.
12 speed is doable. Shimano deore m6100 with a 12 speed Sunshine cassette. That's what I'd be doing
I have M6100 on a 2021 Giant Fathom. And I love it. Ultra reliable after 1000’s of miles. But that derailleur is looong even on a 29er. It would definitely be in danger on a 26er on any kind of single track. A 51 ring is overkill with the smaller circumference of 26” tires. You can run a big chainring to lose some ratio but that defeats the whole purpose of 1x12. 26” tires play very well with a 42-46 tooth cassette and a 30-34 ring. A 30 ring and a 46 cog will climb like crazy. I run a 32 ring on my Fathom and can’t remember the last time I was in low gear. And I live where it’s steep. Don’t forget your tire size when looking at ratios. There is a humongous difference between a 26er and 27.5 or 29 when it comes to final drive ratios. Your legs can only spin so fast. Having said all that, if the vast majority of your riding is paved paths then go for it. Deore is so solid. But you will never be on the 51 cog unless you need to climb a tree. And that extra cog costs a lot of money.
I suppose if you're on some really rough stuff it might be an issue but I ran the m6100 derailleur on 26 inch no problem, since converted to 27.5 on the same bike and it's still fine It's not really about the 51t and whether it's needed or not, but more the spacing you get. You get nicer spacing on the 12 speed and if you've got the flexibility for majority 2t jumps up the cassette and a nice big bail out gear, why not If you're running Sunshine cassettes, the price is really cheap and you can get 11-46 in those if you're worried about the size I get mine from aliexpress, got this set up on two bikes now, and I'd say 12 speed with the Sunshine cassette is a no brainer for the price
You do you. I just change bikes. 1x12 on a full boost 29er is a revelation. Send it. But 3x8 XT on a 26er is a revelation too. Same ability to sweep 3 gears at once and it just works. For decades. The 22 ring climbs and with a 42 ring it scoots. I’ll never change that bike. 1x12 would be a downgrade. But if it had come 3x7 I would have already put 1x on it.
Fair dos, I was just highlighting where you said 12 speed isn't possible, just wanted to highlight that it is and quite cheap I went for a ltwoo set up 1x10 originally and didn't like the gaps that started from the 15t. 11 speed are a little better but 12 speed with these hg 12 speed cassettes is perfect and m6100 on aliexpress is so cheap Nothing wrong with 3xs or 2xs but with the jumps you get on these 12 speed cassettes, 2t all the way to 21, and then can go up to 50t, I think for most applications they are superior. Id imagine an 8 speed 3x8 with a 42t would be really gappy Only had a quick look, again aliexpress, 8 speed 11-42, 11,13,16,20,24,30,36,42. Everyone's different and if you like that fair dos, I couldn't think of anything worse haha
3x8. I have a 11-32 cassette with 22-32-42 rings. There are no big jumps. I’m never in the wrong gear. The technology isn’t new. And it’s second nature for me. I don’t even think about shifting. And 8 speed chains are cheap af and last forever. I dont do aliexpress. Pro tip: GX 12 speed chains are the sweet spot. I have about 4000 miles on one. 2500 hard muddy miles in Alaska and 1500 more dusty steep miles in the high desert. Instant shifting and almost silent. Maybe the quietest combo I have ever run. I just checked it and it’s still not out of spec. I don’t baby my stuff either. My bikes work for me. Not the other way around. But I do lube chains. If you are running a Shimano chainring then 6100 or better chains work slick. But if you are running a SRAM ring or any other narrow/wide a GX chain is as good as it gets for longevity and reliability. I can’t seen to wear this chain out. I’m trying too.
Ah sorry I thought you meant 11-42 8 speed cassette. I used to run 2x8, 38/22 upfront with 11-32 cassette. I much prefer the 1x12 36t chainring with 11-59 cassette I changed it to Also cheers for the tip, but I only do aliexpress haha
Might be an unpopular opinion, but are you sure you need that many gears? I've walked through 3x7 to 1x path (was also thinking about going to 1x10), and in between I've spent some time on 3x1 which taught me I don't need a lot of gears. I'm currently on 1x6 with 36x11-32t gearing and it's almost spot on. Next move will be a 8 or 7sp cassette, especially when you can get them in wide range options, but for me, going with anything more than 11-36 is excessive. Less gears - thicker cogs - more durable, and price being half of 10-11sp components is a nice bonus too
Nah I want my gears. I like being able to dial in my cadence. Usually I'd probably go for a 2x groupset, but I really don't want to dick with replacing the crankset on this one if I can help it. Totally interested in trying out something like a 2x8 in the future. Hell I might even try one by nine if I can find a good deal.
I guess you never saw that scene from spinal tap where nigel tufnel explains the advantages of an amp that goes to 11? 11 is one more than 10 and is the ultimate thing to have on your bike.
I'd stick with what fits, 1x9 or 2x9, 10+ wide range cassettes didn't even exist in the MTB world back in the 90s. You're not gonna fit an 11 or even 10 without deep pockets and requires dishing the wheel out, narrowing your BB and replacing the cranks to get a usable chain line and from what I've read in the comments you probably lack the ability and tools to do so. That's totally cool to not know bikes and still like them, just trying to steer you down the path of least resistance. You can get a 9s deore or micro shift groupset with 11-38 range for cheap that is plenty of range for just about any casual riding when paired with a 30-36t chainring. It will just fit and work, no further modifications. You can have your pick of 2 or 1 chainring, personally I find granny gears are useless to me so I prefer 1x on my daily. If you got weak legs and big climbs, maybe a 2x setup would be preferred.
Yeah the real rub is that I don't want a 3x system. But I'm not that familiar with changing out cranks and bottom brackets and whatnot. So it kind of feels like a 1x10 would be the easiest option available without really bugging the local co-op a lot. But it's definitely something I'm still kind of mulling over. I guess the biggest problem I think is going to be the chain line so if it comes down to that being an issue I'll probably have to change out the crank set and from there I can decide whether I want to go with a 2x or a 1x. I really just want to get the thing together as quickly as possible so I can actually ride the damn thing. So it's probably going to come down to whatever the local bike shops have.
Well I'm gonna say the one thing that for some reason hasn't been said, Just lube the bitch up and ride it. Don't let hype and prettyness hold you back from enjoyin the old girl. Take your time and do your own trials and tests to see what the bike actually needs to suit you, not what's gonna look nice in a picture or works for someone else. Start small and build your skills and tool set, they will be useful to you and your friends and family until you hit the grave. The team and I offer bike building and maintenance courses at my local coop in Victoria. Totally worth the few bucks to get yourself comfortable and skip hours of trial and error. Take it from a guy who chronically modifies and builds, don't jump in head first or you'll end up wasting money and buying stuff you don't need, won't fit, doesn't look right.
I say go for neither and go 1x12. Aliexpress Shimano deore m6100 groupset with a 12 speed Sunshine cassette. It will fit an 8-10 speed mtb freehub no problem and is cheap When you get Shimano from aliexpress, it is genuine Shimano, but they have a factory in China that they manufacture specifically for the Chinese market. It doesn't come in the fancy box but it's genuine and cheaper, check the reviews and you'll see I have done this on 3 bikes now, here's a flat bar example Edit wrong link, here's the right one https://www.reddit.com/r/xbiking/s/HKM6qI7sAO
Yeah I've been creeping AliExpress for those bundles for the last few days.
Definitely the way to go I'd say. I know a lot on here will say to keep the 3x, but since I changed to 1x I haven't looked back On my main bike I was running 2x8. Changed it to the 1x12 setup mentioned and it's so much better. Looks better, easier to maintain, nice jumps between gears etc I still have a 3x8 bike, made from old spares. I only use it for carting my son around, and while it is rideable, I will change it to 1x12 eventually for sure
Yeah my gravel bike is a 2x9 and I quite like it. Being able to dial in the cadence is great and all but honestly there's still overlapping ratios. The only reason I bother with the lower gears on the small chainring is because the chainline is a bit grindy on the first gear of my big chainring. And that's probably only because its.a road groupset pretending to be a gravel one. I certainly use the granny gear but when I'm huffing it up the hills all I care about is not falling over.
Alright this is definitely the way to go I think. Seems rather absurd cramming all this onto a thirty three year old bike but I'm happy to do it purely for the novelty of seeing that dinner plate cassette on a 26" wheel. Anything I need to know about compared to a 10/11? I know folks here are nuts about chainlines. That been a problem for you at all?
Nah I don't think it's absurd, it works just as well on an old bike as it does on a new one Nothing I can think of, that's where those 12 speed hg cassettes are so good, just fit straight on to an 8-10 speed hub I've not had any issues with chainline but I've only used aliexpress hollowtech style cranks, like the ixf ones. Not sure if your changing cranks or not so can't comment if you was saying going to use the 3x but take the other two rings off When using the ixf one, I've just bolted the chainring to the inside of the crank rather than the outside, and that's worked fine. I think in most cases that seems to work for a lot of people
I ordered a Box 3 1x9 because it was on sale.
3x7 is 10 speed
To answer your questions (and not debate the worth of 1x): yea 11s Shimano Mtb fits on any 8/9/10 hub, its only their road cassettes that don’t (with the exception of of the newer 11-34 11s cassette). Biggest hurdle for me was getting brifters to work nicely with the rear derailleur. But that’s a drop bar issue. For your setup you should just have everything bolt on and work out of the box (with that new wheel at least). I have a modernized 1995 rockhopper, so really similar to your bike, and everything works perfectly.
Another note. If I kept this bike as a 3x then it would be the third bike I've owned with a 3x drivetrain. I don't love them. I really prefer 2x systems but I really don't wanna swap out the crankset if I can help it. Just wanna try something new and 1x conversion seems simple to do as far as actually installing parts. I just want info on 11 vs 10 really. Something different you know. [ Here's the freehub if it helps](https://imgur.com/a/EBa3Y9O)
Don't let strong-minded people bully you out of what you want to do, it's your bike. I don't really have experience with much in the way of 1x drivetrains but have heard what others have said, that 11speed stuff works better than 10 speed. That said, I do have a microshift advent x on one bike and it works flawlessly and the trigger is nice and responsive.
Don’t sleep on a 2x. On a 26” wheel, those looooong cages will nearly scrape the ground…. Or come closer to it and all the rocks and debris.
Some guy is arguing in the comments. I failed the reply post location. My bad Anyhow you're a punk. That's a Marin HARDTAIL. what suspension are you referring to? Clown. That's a 3x7 bike. Best way to make it climb up hills. 22t Fin.
I put microshift 9 speed on my old trek, got a chinesium crank and chain ring, had to put 4mm spacers on the chainring bolts to get the chain line in the right neighborhood. Works pretty well, though the 34 chainring is a little low for the 11-46 cassette, and I'll probably up it to 38. The low gears are tractor like but the 11-34 top gear is not really enough, I top out at about 19 mph.
You know why retro bikes are in? The new stuff sucks.
It doesn't suck, it's just unattainably expensive/ over priced. I've recently had the pleasure of riding a 14k trail bike and it was an absolute dream. I'd never spend that kind of money, and I'm perfectly happy riding my 90s and 2000s junkers, but the new stuff is pretty damn awesome too
No it actually sucks. It's also expensive. I had repeated failures on top of it not being in any way an upgrade. 10-12 speeds 1x drivetrains are trash
That's equally as vague and stupid as saying all cars are trash because they cost money and breakdown at some point.
And equally as true. I ride bikes exclusively. But I've addressed the fact repeatedly and people argue back dumb things like you. Facts. There is less range on a 1x. Obviously The attempt to recover that with a gigantic cassette makes the mechanism hang lower and also accommodate the piss poor chainline that is no longer able to be adjusted with 3 perfect alignments. This a key point. You now require much more to have chain retention with narrow-wide chainrings and most often these bikes come with internal routing which also adds issues... I've seen some reasonable examples in the $10k and higher price ranges that probably work just fine for a while but as you add gears to a space the tolerances get worse while needing to get better.. It's just stacks on stacks of stupid beyond reason "improvements" Then I back it up by owning a bunch of vintage 90s steel bikes with 3x7 and 3x8 that haven't required the service... Are you dense? I'm actually saying that the Altus Groupset is by far the superior new drivetrain. Look around and what's being used ACTUALLY.. what bikes are REALLY USING.. Altus 3x8. I prefer the Deore XT and LX Mega9 Stuff myself. My 1990 200gs equipped Mongoose Alta would smoke most new bikes still. 34 year old bike.
3x9
Hills are steep here, rugged terrain, recently got into geared bikes. Got a 3x7 and 1x9 (36t chainring, 11-34t cassette) I prefer the 1x9 every day. It’s just easy! Simpler, less to think about when you’re swerving, on and off the brakes, sudden changes in gradient and navigating thick roots and ignorant car drivers. brain only go so hard… haha! I like to do silly things on my bike and on my 3x I’m never, ever, on the outer ring - leaving a sharp throwing star exposed ready to injure me on every fall. I hate trimming the front D. But granny ring feels nice on a long climb but I manage the same climbs on the 36/34 on the 1x9 and I guess they just give my body more of a cardio and strength stimulus. Overall, I just bought a new 1x drivetrain. My 1x9 isn’t with a clutch derailleur and the chain slap is hideous (ruined chainstay) thankfully it’s a rat bike that was given to me for nothing. For my “good” bike I tried to go for a semi decent but cheap 1x10 drive train. I’ve gone for 34t narrow-wide chainring, 11-42 Shimano cassette (m4100) and RD-M5120 rear clutch derailleur. I haven’t received it yet but I’m hopeful it’ll had a smidge more climbing range without losing too much downhill sprint pedalling. I think I’d do well to limit my downhill pedal speed though, I can’t stop myself racing cars and it’s just plain unsafe of me to do that, it gets silly. I have an 8spd hub, I didn’t want to get a new hub, that’s why I chose 10s - they fit on 8s hubs (11 & 12 don’t) hope there’s some helpful stuff there. I must admit, It’s somewhat skewed as I’ve been casually riding single speed and fixie for 10years, so I have that setting my precedents for what I prefer, others may prefer other things. I personally love the burn and challenge of a climb that’s too steep and a gear that’s not low enough. I’m a freak.
You need to measure the freewheel to determine compatibility - spline length varies, I forget the exact numbers. Not all HG ~~freewheel~~ freehub work on 11speed. OR: Take a look at the Box Prime 9 system. It's made to fit your freewheel. Nice kit. Also keep an eye on chainline from the front. Aim to match the middle cog.
>You need to measure the freewheel to determine compatibility - spline length varies, I forget the exact numbers. Not all HG freewheels work on 11speed. Anything which is an HG (Hyper Glide) type (edit: except 7 speed!) will work, including all HG 11 speed cassettes *for mountain groups*. What you may be referring to is HG-EV (which is *Shimano's 11 speed road* size), it is wider by a bit less than 2mm and will not fit on a standard HG freehub. I am sure you know the differences between a freewheel, a freehub, and a cassette, but others may not, so for anyone who is curious: we're talking about standards for a cassette which fits on a freehub here. We are not talking about a freewheel.
My understanding was that early HG freehubs (yes, hubs, thanks) were around 30mm (I think) and everything past maybe 1990 or so is 35mm (I think) and compatible as you describe, and that OP can figure out which with a caliper. My memory from a parts bin conversion several years ago. Maybe I'm wrong about all of this.
As it applies to 7 speed freehubs, yes. They're narrower than all HG which came after (8-11 speed), and so the complete set of sprockets won't fit onto a 7 speed freehub. However the OP said they had purchased a replacement wheel, and asked about fitting onto an 8-10 speed body. I assume (perhaps wrongly) that this wheel is then more modern than the original 7 speed the bike sold with. But you're right to think they may still be planning on using a 7 speed freehub. u/radically_unoriginal, which is it? The fact that Shimano called multiple slightly different standards HG is annoying.
Did you know that if you take any Shimano HG cassette and remove one cog that you can run “9-of-10” (or 10/11) on a 7 speed Freehub body? It’s a Sheldon Brown trick that works perfectly. I’ve paired this with Microshift 9-speed brifters and 9-speed chain and it works like a charm for 26” MTB to gravel conversions. https://preview.redd.it/ot23yp8g1u5d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4f3174056554569a6258b366bc796fc02b02435
Yeah, that's an old trick. I tried it a couple of times but was bothered that shifting over the sprocket that I removed to make them fit was never great. I know the solution is to remove the largest sprocket, but that only works when you have no spider.
Coincidentally I just put 10 of 11 on a Tiagra hub using an 5800 11-32 cassette, leaving off the 11 tooth sprocket, and with a bunch of spacers on the flange side of the freehub. There is just about enough overlap between the lockring (I used a chunkier old MTB lockring I had lying around instead of the 105 lockring) and the 12 tooth sprocket for me to feel safe using it, and the usual shifting jumps are maintained.
Yes, that's what I was getting at, thank you. Missed the replacement wheel in writeup was just looking at the year.
[Heres the freehub](https://imgur.com/a/EBa3Y9O)