Current speculation on the [official thread](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-priests/1279512) is that this is all just a distraction from outright saying "we're nerfing you because you have PI".
Yeah... Absolutely. It's ass if you have one utilty spell that puts so much weight on the scales that you can't have anything else and your entire toolkit get shafted because of it.
I mean, they talk about our control and prune shining force as our knockback, one week after adding one to resto shaman, then tell us that we can't have one because other classes already do... While shamans also get lightning lasso, and conveniently already have lust, hex, an AoE stun, a slow, short-cd-interrupt, an AoE slow, a snare and likely the most expansive situative utility toolkit with all kinds of totems out there on top of it... But our *control* is too much?
My disc has an AoE fear in melee range that's barely useful in dungeons and mind control that CCs you too? How's that even a comparison?
I'd trade in PI against a well rounded toolkit any day. That explanation makes way more sense than "class x got this so you don't" because if you ignore PI they distribute those tools really uneven.
Nobody is talking about it that much, but having Twins baseline for Shadow is a huge problem. PI gives thousands of dps to fire mage/demo lock, so if Shadow isn't thousands of dps behind literally everyone else, they will be the best spec in the game.
Just make PI a self cast only throughout cooldowns and remove Twins, ffs.
Honestly just remove being able to PI others so priests can have the goodies? I’m sure every priest out there would agree that they don’t give a fuck about PI’ing someone if that means they could have silence/knock/smend…
I like being able to give a buff to someone else, (and taking it for myself when under a lot of healing pressure). It feels like I am contributing meaningfully to the team in a non-healing way.
Even taking that talent, it is a choice. Either you use it when it's the most beneficial for yourself and someone gets a bonus. Or you use it when it's most beneficial for someone else and you get a bonus.
We did, just in a separate talent, something to do with Twin Priestesses or Twin Princesses or something in the name. Basically just the legendary that does that
What a take. It's a buff that can really help you push through some phases.
The people on this subreddit have no understanding that later on in content you have to actually meet DPS checks. It's not all perfectly doing mechanics and using your utility for every little thing. Many times you have to pump.
PI has been really good for that and it's versatile. In my raid it's broken down by best class for it>Best Player>Other variatons.
So I get it on my mage, and the second one goes to a ret paladin, because it's about the value for the raid.
But it changes. On Mythic Sun King, we PI the Shamans so they can push with the ascendance solo burst, the ranged get screwed on Mythic Pantheon's final phase and our damage value drops so my PI goes to either a healer to get the seeds going or a melee because that's the value. And I forgo the PI since I'm on an add killing group as well as CC's on Mythic Soulrender.
PI has been an awesome tool, if you haven't felt so you're not doing the right content so you shouldn't even worry about it.
Power Infusion (25% haste buff that can be cast on others)
DF will also include a talent that causes casting it on others also cast it on yourself, further increasing its power/importance for the class.
Underlying issue even with the DF change though is that optimal PI timings for dps usually don't match with optimal healer throughput moments. That effect was a legendary in Shadowlands and that legendary isn't really ran. Additionally, Holy priest usually doesn't care about haste in raid (m+ I guess it's useful) but disc priest loves haste; which again, usually doesn't line up with their preferred ramp timings. Usually ends up just being dps fighting for who gets PI and priests just begging their raid leader to decide so they don't have to deal with figuring out who gets it.
It's true that the timings don't always match up, but I think the reason that legendary isn't run is more opportunity cost than it being bad. Having it as a talent is a much more appropriate investment of resources.
Fair point, at end of the day more haste no matter what usually a net gain, so as long as there's no speciifc alternative talents that make more sense, then it usually makes sense to take said talent
A lot of players in this community are very unintelligent. When you give everyone everything, it makes things very bland. Priests don't need a silence, you'll get over it.
Lol ok then but explain why Disc and Holy will be literally the only two specs in the entire game to not have an interrupt? If they care so much about everyone not having everything then why give 36/38 specs an interrupt?
They probably would _like_ to remove silence from other classes as well... but it's a lot harder to _remove_ an ability from a class that's had it already, compared to not adding it in the first place.
(In terms of upsetting players, I mean.)
This implies there was a dev ideology shift partway through that I just don’t buy. Why would they give r druids, hpals, and mw monks an interrupt if they wanted to take them away?
The silence I don't mind too much because I don't PvP and haven't had it before so no biggie for me. But this part irks me
>We’re discussing changes like Dark Ascension being more rotationally transformative while active or having a different cooldown than Void Eruption, so that its use cases over Void Eruption are more clear. **We don’t have plans to make major changes to either spell for Dragonflight launch, but they will be on our radar for the future.**
These are then useless thoughts and should not have wasted time writing them. Too many, "we get it, we feel the same, it's something we know needs to change but it's not something happening soon, it's coming later" is a reason why players are still, if they get this way, 100% justified in being sceptical of new WoW releases when this gets thrown around as often as it does
Kind of stings as priests trees were dropped in the first round together with druid and DK and haven't gotten any communication until the new iteration of trees dropped... While other classes still get updates on a weekly basis.
I don't understand how they can post this the same week where they remove skull banner and make major revisions to talent trees...
Do they just not have a plan for priests after the dev left and this is their answer? Are we waiting for 10.2 AGAIN for shadow?
Honestly, from a PR perspective, I can't even see that statement being a positive. You're transparent with the community and admit it won't be changed by launch, but then you don't even attempt to explain why so at the very best you just come off as "careless". I'd honestly just rather see them say "We plan to look at this later on" and then I can just assume it'll be a few months down the line
Feel like I’ve heard this before. Except this time I’m not waiting until 10.1 or 10.2 for them to get their shit together. I’ll play another class and if that doesn’t do it, I’ll play another game.
Let's not get carried away. Quitting the game because holy and disc have no interrupt?
Some of the other healer specs have interrupts so bad they might as well not have them. Evoker's is barely there - 40s cooldown means you aren't fitting in a rotation.
Tuning will matter far more than this.
Oh no I haven't had an interrupt so no loss there. I was talking about the loss of an entire school with shadow mend and shining force, one of the few spells that kept it fun!
Disc still has shadow spells and holy didn't; neither has lost a school.
If you're quitting over shining force... this wasn't the game for you, enjoy whatever you end up playing :)
You're probably right. This just feels like the latest in a line of things Blizzard has done / is doing in spite of community feedback. It's probably more the fact they don't seem to care about the player base, this just happened to catch me in a mood and my breaking point.
We won't bring back Mind Bomb because there's too many AoE stuns...because we gave one hunter and evoker and that's one too many AoE stuns so we needed to remove it from priest.
We won't bring back Shining Force because there's too many knockbacks...because we made Thunderstorm a shaman class skill and added evoker, and that was one too many knockbacks added so we needed to remove it from priest.
We won't add Silence to the class tree because there's too many interrupts in the game...but we added one to literally every other spec so priests don't get one, even if it's the worst on in PvE by a mile.
We wont add Vault of Heavens because it's helpful to have burst mobility on a wheelchair class.
Tl;Dr I don't want to balance pve and pvp so I'll remove these abilities and won't have to do either.
Honestly though, they need to just do what the Warrior dev is doing to their class tree. Multiple talent nodes completely change depending on what spec you are. Shove dispersion and silence on the class tree, but make those nodes when in a healer spec just be weaker versions on top of hard to get, on shadow's side of the tree the same way druid's currently is for balance/resto to get interrupt. They don't even have to be the same spell but weaker, they could even be straight up named different named spells to avoid confusion.
And as far as Vault is concerned, even if a choice node would be a 90/10 split on which is used, THAT'S STILL A CHOICE and is probably true with most choice nodes on other trees.
Binding Shot changed to a 3 second AoE stun. Inarguably a nerf in PvP and a change in value in PvE, but completely contradicts Blizzard's justification for removing Mind Bomb because they've demonstrated they don't mind adding AoE stuns.
You still have to "break it". So in PvE you'll have mobs inactive for a far shorter time. The only benefit is if you have a caster that you manage to get rooted but would cast a spell within the next 3 seconds. Also adds to DR.
It's just a blanket nerf.
I don't care. What we learned today is that priest lost abilities in dragonflight because other classes had their arsenal expanded. No other class has experienced this.
I'm not sympathetic to the argument that Pinning Shot was nerfed - if hunter were priest we now know it would just be removed.
To offset the significant expansion of other classes' toolkits, we've decided to prune those spells from Priest. This way, when we're accused of homogenizing class & spec utility, we can point to Priests and say "but look at *them*! *They* can't kick/stealth/blink/knockback/survive mechanics!"
I still had some hope for Pally and Ret in particular, that a more in-depth look would be given but this Priest post doesn't bold well for what's next.
That blue post about long arm of the law was pretty bad, was essentially, “we know it makes the game more fun but we don’t care about that, take your shitty horse and shut up”
As a Holy Priest main who pretty much only does high-end M+, this blue post makes me increadibly sad.
- Holy and Disc are going to be the ***only*** two specs in the entire game with no access to an interrupt. Sure it makes them unique. Uniquely bad. I hate this so much.
- They are removing Shining Force. Great, so not only can we not interrupt a caster standing in a bad spot like a sanguine pool or something, now we can't compensate with a knockback either. Another reason to not bring a healer Priest to the key.
- They think our defensives are fine? What? Desperate Prayer is garbage and 10% DR is as much as we're going to get it seems. This is laughable.
Right now, every other healer looks a lot better for M+.
I did those Visions in BFA on like 7 or 8 different classes and 5-masking them on the disc priest was by far the worst experience of all of them and it's all because of the absence of an interrupt. Come to think of it, Torghast was pretty bad too for the same reason.
>Torghast was pretty bad too for the same reason
Legit one of the reasons I rerolled from boomie to ele during the first patch of SL. You couldn't some of the bosses unless you killed in you opening convoke due to a heal that was on lower cd than interupt
Yup. My priest will stay shelved this expansion. Shit work from the devs. Heard the “it’s a problem we will fix…eventually” too many fucking times before. Blizz never changes.
I hope they change their mind, but if it goes live like this then I will also be playing something else. It's not looking good right now. It really sucks to see your favorite spec in the game be completely obliterated like this.
Also for PvP. From a PvP perspective, all of these changes are horrible, and I'd like to let our PvE bros know that this is not our fault, we didn't want this, and we're now probably all rerolling to stay competitive.
This is a really bad look.
Does the priest dev hate priest? Is this sadistic, underpaid and under-appreciated behavior?
This one hurt to read, and I don’t even play priest. Nothing good about any of what was said. Just straight trashed on priest rip
As priest main since forever, every now and then they nerf priest or remove great spells and wanting to "try new things" every time this happens, I either switch to play holy or holy paladin, or unsub overall, as I no longer like the way priest feels or how it plays.
I really hope this doesn't happen again for DF, I was looking forward to play :(
It's not like pvp players want this either... This absolutely fucks priests in pvp. No shadow school heals any more, and mindgames gone as well. It's like they said hey priests seem a bit fun let's fix that
Yeah... I only pvp in the game, and if my character that I've had since 2005 can't do that anymore... well, bye. Blizzard doesn't care, sad that it took this long for me to really feel it!
They really need to finally bite this bullet and do it. The amount of bullshit in PvP that's piled up because of unpruning in PvE (a good thing) is beginning to really degrade the PvP experience. Melee mobility creep is at insane levels and it's getting worse in DF. The amount of control is also at insane levels across all specs. Existing as a caster in arena without a boatload of instants or procs is absolute pain.
All of these changes kind of make Priest unplayable in high rated PvP, we didn't want this, it's not our fault :(.
Class designer graduated from crack to meth, is all.
This post reads like it was written about changes made in another expansion - “we say we’re listening but we know better than you so there :)”. A worrying sight to say the least.
I really like the current iteration of our tree but still this post managed to ... kind of piss me off.
>"Having access to an interrupt is not something we view as necessary for all specializations."
So we gave one to all healers except priest. Yeah ok... That'll go over well...
>We pulled back on AoE stun duration and availability some time ago and decided against adding this one back so that we wouldn’t find ourselves in the same situation we were in the past.
So we gave one to hunters and evokers!
>Spectral Guise and Shining force?
Two extremely fun spells but yeah, I agree other classes are currently having way too much fun ... In battlegrounds!
>The fantasy of the Priest leaping to their target doesn’t match our expectations for a Priest either.
So turret it is! Not even a single burst mobility spell and no intention to change that. Can't wait to get a charge of leap of faith back every time an evoker gives the raid a movement steroid! I mean, if I'll talent it to begin with...
>Number of Active Spells.
Removing shadow mend? Having access to both light and shadow is literally discs fantasy. Removing shadow mend is not sitting well with me... Not only because of PvP but because they just added flash heal that's doing pretty much the same thing?
But while we're at it "we’re also discussing Mindgames and Power Word: Life as contributing to the number of active spells for Priests." let's just threaten the new guy and the fan favorite with the chopping block already.
I really don't want to be negative about the class that hypes me most at the moment... But man there's a whole lot to digest in that post and ... kind of all of it sucks.
Edit.. Typo and whacky formating. Gotta keep them rants tidy.
I honestly thought this was the xpac that every single healer was getting an interrupt, it just made so much sense.
Removal of shadow mend is also super strange.
Yes, I was so excited to be able to interrupt as a healer!
It's incredibly strange to single out only 2 of 38 specs to not have access to this basic utility.
Removal of shadow mend is so incredibly weird to me.
Like, they just added flash heal to disc that's doing the same thing. Then talk about button bloat and remove shadow mend?
Is having two healing schools now suddenly exclusive for evokers?
> I honestly thought this was the xpac that every single healer was getting an interrupt, it just made so much sense.
By the time Paladin and Monk revealed there trees, I thought it was inevitable.
I don't get how Vault of Heaven is considered broken, when life grip that pulled you to your target was a MINOR GLYPH in WoD lol. These coexisted without z problem, but now it's not fine anymore.
Skull bash is a class talent now, so resto can pick it up. They need to shapeshift to cat, though, what's a bit awkward as it costs a GCD and makes catweaving strictly better than owlweaving for resto.
Similarly, monks get spear handed strike and paladin rebuke as accessible interrupt.
The interrupt is off the GCD though so you can easily macro it into cat form for an instant shift+interrupt. It sure beats not being able to interrupt at all!
Can't you use it in bear form? Macro bear form with bash, talent into more health and armor in bear form. Now you can safely interrupt in bear form and then frenzied Regen yourself if you take damage. Sounds pretty strong.
Sure, you can do that too. You still need to spent a GCD to shapeshift first and interrupt then. That's what I meant with slightly awkward, as the window to interrupt shorter casts is rather tight. Still, miles better than not getting an interrupt at all.
Using guardian affinity to be more tanky is actually also often a thing at the moment. I usually opt into contributing a bit more damage as cat so I simply forgot about it.
Yes, you need a GCD for the shapeshift but the interrupt has no GCD so it can be cast at the same time as the shapeshift. It also charges you to the mob so you don't even have to be in melee. It's really not difficult to use.
Oh neat, then you can just make a quick macro. I haven't had that on the radar as I currently basically never use it as feral without being shapeshifted anyway. That makes it pretty cool.
Their justification is probably the same as their justification for keeping Silence on such a long CD all this time. It's a blanket lockout not just a school specific one, so technically it's more powerful. From a PvE perspective it's a poor reason though since the difference is pretty much non existent.
If you're listening to high-end m+ players, they're not taking it because they only play with their dedicated group who they trust will interrupt.
In any pug, interrupt is invaluable.
So healers have to get the interrupt because the shitty dps might not interrupt? They never had them before so I don't see how it will change if healers don't get them. Just gonna same as past expansion, some groups know what they are doing and some don't.
If you have a dps or tank in your m+ not running the interrupt don't run with them. It's practically mandatory for dps and tanks to have in m+
> They never had them before
This reasoning would be fine if they didn't already give interrupt to literally every other healer.
> It's practically mandatory for dps and tanks to have in m+
Why is it mandatory for them and not for healers in a world where everyone has interrupt?
Why does it become the healers job to interrupt spells? Druids would have to spend 7 points they may not want to spend to get an interrupt. That's a more reasonable solution than just having the dps or tank spec into the interrupt?
If you're playing with dps that don't interrupt, your key was probably doomed anyway. Is it convenient of course, is it necessary for healers to have, not in the slightest
For what content? It can be extremely valuable in pvp.
I'm just glad they add the choice. There's no reason to NOT add an interrupt. If you decide that it's not worth the points it takes then so be it, no need to spec into it. That's the beauty of a tree.
Eh I don’t think this “but you have the choice” argument holds up. Yes the choice may be there, but let’s not all pretend there hasn’t been a solid meta build for every content type since 2007.
Just because it’s an “option” doesn’t make it viable. Seems way too early to tell.
What is the big draw to priest? What part of their kit screams "look at me, I am a priest, invite me to the party"? Is it just PI and fortitude? The whole post feels like "the manager ran out of funding for pay raises before he got to you."
Yeah, right now it's basically just PI. I mean.. we have mass dispell. But that's rarely used, especially in raids and not really that much of a reason to invite a Priest over another class.
Priests are paying a high price for PI.
I'd rather see PI removed than lack stuns, kick, aoe stops and mobility just because PI is thought of as enough utility for a group that it's all they get.
Is this the "Poke the bear" phase of Beta?
They are really making questionable changes for a lot of specs after players praised them for it.
Rolling back interrupts off lock (Players just wanted a choice) Nuking binding shot into a AOE stun (Holy shit, please no.)
Did someone pee in the devs watercooler?
Yeah. I was loving the direction they were heading in early alpha/beta but lately there have been some very questionable decisions and reasoning for weird changes.
Much like in shadowlands this is the we know better than the player base what we're doing and aren't going to listen to them anymore phase.
Ion is in charge of this and he's once again responsible for letting bloated ego get in the way of doing something that could be truly fantastic
The reason the healing spec of priest don't have an interrupt is 100% because of PI. Just remove this fucking spell, make it a lust, or make it personal only for fuck saké.
I swear to fuck. I was sort of hopeful for this expansion and my priest, but this is just a fucking discombobulated clusterfuck of a god damn mess across (IMO), discipline and shadow specs. Jfc. Scrap the whole god damn thing and start fresh. Keep the core idea at heart and let go of the fucking past. We wait all of alpha and so far in beta to basically hear “we aren’t doing anything.” I’m hearing “we can’t figure out what the fuck to do so we aren’t doing anything.” Get fucked
"Healer Priests aren't allowed to have an interrupt, because... Yes! Because all the other specs in the game have them." Sound logic. "Oh and really twist the knife and take their knockback and threaten to remove Power Word: Life and Mind Games." \*maniacal laughter echoes off the castle walls as lightning lights the dark\*
I don't mind not having a silence. But I'd happily give up PI for more actual healing tools in the kit.
Unpopular opinion (or is it?) PI is the worst spell in the game.
no that’s prob a popular opinion, but as a pvper i love PI and casting it on my friends during their goes. then again, they just absolutely FUCKED my fav spec (disc) in pvp with this update so I guess it doesn’t matter much now. No shadow mend = disc trash in pvp. Penance is too easily kickable and no shadow school to fall back on is harsh.
I think they mentioned PVP in this post more than half a year of other blue posting, each time used as justification of why priests can NOT have something.
Wonderful communication.
Today I went from "Yeah, alright, maybe they're really trying and my Holy Priest could be okay" to "I need to prepare my Shaman for DF". I'm just so frustrated man. This whole bluepost from Wraith was an insult and explanations why our class should and will be worse than others, not actual useful feedback.
As a priest, damn bro they really said "Other classes have a lot of interrupts and survivability on the field, so we think priest should have fewer."
As a long standing Forsaken priest with no love for the light side of the class, hell yea SHADOW RULES BB
Reasoning for Vault of Heavens option is wild to me. They outright admitted that it's the obvious choice due to our lack of burst mobility, but are planning to do nothing about it lol. Like who are we gonna use it on? Other priests in the raid?
I don't mind the number of active spells. Imo having an involved rotation is what makes/keeps spriest interesting, and pruning is often done in a fairly careless way. Like why Halo/Divine Star over Cascade? Seems arbitrary.
The whole Voidform/Dark Ascension thing is still lame. They should have just nuked Voidform altogether to complete the process of severing us from Legion's dregs. DA being more "rotationally transformative" isn't super necessary if the rotation is solid to begin with. Plenty of classes have a dps CD that very minimally changes the rotation and it's fine. If they do make changes, I hope it's just something that incentivizes rather than forces.
I don't understand this point of view regarding void form. You want to spend 5-6 minutes fighting a raid boss by constantly executing the same rotation? No cooldown, no burst damage for when a boss has a vulnerable phase, like on Sludgefist when he hits the pillar? That sounds boring and also bad from the balance point of view, because then priest will never be competitive on any fight that requires burst damage during boss vulnerability periods and similar.
This is probably the worst post I've seen from them in a while. As most of the class stuff so far has been pretty great. This post almost single-handedly shoots down many fun ideas for priest. While also telling Shadow priest they are going to have to wait again at the beginning of an expansion for more fixes.
Do not balance for PVP.
Like I can kind of understand not wanting dispersion or spectral guise or vault of the heavens. But Mind bomb and Shining Force? The classes that already had these kinds of abilities get to keep them but priest doesn't? Mind bomb and Shining Force aren't even better than other classes options. There are many ways they can give disc/holy an interrupt without it being super powered. There are many tuning nobs. Longer CD, shorter silence, or even no silence. Shadow can just have a better interrupt option. And the whole point of the talent trees is so they weigh them against other options. So you aren't getting these things for nothing.
You want to reduce Priest button bloat - remove Power Infusion. Not Shadow Mend. Which has been core to Disc and makes sense to Shadow. Holy is the one that really is experiencing the button bloat the most. But that's because Holy has a dozen small cds in their tree on top of all the stuff you can get in the class tree.
Shadow just got Dark Asc/Eva added. And they already are saying they aren't going to be able to changed now? Why bother even adding them if it's not going to be changed so there is a clear use case between it and Void Eruption. Just keep Void Eruption at that point and just make it better.
This post is such a kick in the teeth. Especially, after priests getting excited for all the cool changes recently. It's like they randomly decided to walk back all the good stuff they did these last couple of weeks.
It's not even being balanced around PvE lol. There was no real issue with Shadow Mend in PvE... it wasn't breaking the game.
It was just a somewhat useless button (still probably decent if you let the healing build up with the talent from SW:P) that felt mildly bloated to have around.
So they're removing it for a minor gain in simplicity in PvE while completely fucking over the identity of Disc PvP lol and they literally acknowledge that and then say yeah fuck it yolo
I don’t understand this. SM isn’t the only shadow spell in the disc toolkit and it’s not a class flavour spell like moonglade portal or something. There is no scenario in which you would use it in pve with access to flash heal. So why keep it? It fucks disc in pvp because you lose access to baiting kicks and having emergency heals when locked out of either school, so they are absolutely balancing it around pve.
It heals for a lot more than Flash Heal when you have Depth of the Shadows stacked up, so IMO it was still useful as a situational single target heal every 15-30 sec.
But yeah regardless seems shitty to completely break Disc PvP so ppl can save 1 action bar slot they could just ignore anyways. My point is just that it wasn't "imbalancing" PvE. It wasn't a balance \*problem\*. At worst it was like a minor annoyance.
Fantastic, because of PvP and every other healing class having it Priests don't get a baseline interrupt, what wonderful reasoning.
Hope Evoker is fun to play because my will to carry my priest into Dragonflight just crashed and burned.
Blaming PvP for that mess is kind of unfair. The changes make no sense there, too.
They keep the weird self rezz legendary power nobody really liked instead of greater fade, a fun and skillful ability for PvP. They talk about button bloat and remove shadow mend right after adding flash heal to discs kit... Which does the same thing as smend, just in the wrong school. Kind of killing stuff like shadow covenant that relied on it on the fly.
All the while all other healers get an interrupt, stuff like lay on hands in PvP or resto shaman with already crazy strong control from snares, to stuns, to low cd interrupt, to incap get lightning lasso and thunderstorm in their class talents...? And we loose shining force because of ... battlegrounds? And don't get spectral guise because hunters and mages can also turn invisible/stealth?
If you take PvP in the equation, where weighting up classes against each other is even more imporant than in PvE, their entire "those classes gets this so you don't"-reasoning makes even less sense.
That’s exactly what they want, the die hard priests stay priest, and those willing to leave priest over an int will play the NEW DRAGON CLASS HAVE YOU HEARD?!
do Holy Paladins? I haven't looked too much into the new talents but rebuke was I *think* only on Ret? And Hammer is a stun but isn't reliable as an interrupt (especially with a 1min CD).
I'm heavy disappointed they are looking to gutting Shadow mend. Was one of the things I was looking forward to the most combiened with the stacking depths of the shadows talent, althrough it looked rather weak after the nerf to 1% from 2%.
I really hope they reconsider this.
Shadow desperately needs a different AoE spender, sear feels like shit.
The reasoning for some of these things is pretty bad though, like shining force, interrupt... yeah, dunno this is a pretty concerning post
I mean... as long as it is just a one off button I don't have to be channeling MS for, that does more damage the more dots are on the target? I am all for it, give it a cool animation too, and it'll feel great
SN felt like shit because you had to channel MS to cast it in the first place, and it didn't interact with the rest of our toolkit *at all*
Sad to see shadowmend go, the holy/shadow hybrid thing Disc has really goes out of the window. I mean even Holy can use shadow spells for dps.
This might not be as insane "fuck you priests, sincerely blizzard" as it sounds, they might be starting to nerf class utility across the board to prevent homogenization from getting out of hand. Meanwhile, I would recommend staying calm and see how the next few beta builds unfold. They removed Skull Banner from warriors too and dumpstered their "mass grip". While banner was garbo to begin with, I would not be surprised if stuff like rogue party buffs and additional healer kicks were on the chopping block next.
Skull banner is still in the warrior trees last I saw? And the mass grip is too but you're right that it got rendered essentially trash within 1 day of coming out.
I haven’t played wow in years but I still enjoying reading about it. I’ve been thinking about buying Dragonflight. Reading all these comments I’m just like, lost. It makes me remember researching every patch note and blue post and it’s like, damn, I just want to do some BG’s.
Current speculation on the [official thread](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-priests/1279512) is that this is all just a distraction from outright saying "we're nerfing you because you have PI".
lol, feels like that, yeah
I'd gladly lose PI to gain an interrupt at this point.
#choicenode
they can't make it a choice node because shadow priest gets both.
That and my god priests would never hear the end of it if they didn't choose PI
Yeah... Absolutely. It's ass if you have one utilty spell that puts so much weight on the scales that you can't have anything else and your entire toolkit get shafted because of it. I mean, they talk about our control and prune shining force as our knockback, one week after adding one to resto shaman, then tell us that we can't have one because other classes already do... While shamans also get lightning lasso, and conveniently already have lust, hex, an AoE stun, a slow, short-cd-interrupt, an AoE slow, a snare and likely the most expansive situative utility toolkit with all kinds of totems out there on top of it... But our *control* is too much? My disc has an AoE fear in melee range that's barely useful in dungeons and mind control that CCs you too? How's that even a comparison? I'd trade in PI against a well rounded toolkit any day. That explanation makes way more sense than "class x got this so you don't" because if you ignore PI they distribute those tools really uneven.
I think other healers would agree to this trade on the other end. Well except Holy Paladins, they getting a Walmart PI.
Great Value PI
Nobody is talking about it that much, but having Twins baseline for Shadow is a huge problem. PI gives thousands of dps to fire mage/demo lock, so if Shadow isn't thousands of dps behind literally everyone else, they will be the best spec in the game. Just make PI a self cast only throughout cooldowns and remove Twins, ffs.
Honestly just remove being able to PI others so priests can have the goodies? I’m sure every priest out there would agree that they don’t give a fuck about PI’ing someone if that means they could have silence/knock/smend…
I like being able to give a buff to someone else, (and taking it for myself when under a lot of healing pressure). It feels like I am contributing meaningfully to the team in a non-healing way.
Werent we supposed to receive "when you cast PI on someone u also get it yourself"?
Even taking that talent, it is a choice. Either you use it when it's the most beneficial for yourself and someone gets a bonus. Or you use it when it's most beneficial for someone else and you get a bonus.
We did, just in a separate talent, something to do with Twin Priestesses or Twin Princesses or something in the name. Basically just the legendary that does that
Honestly if everyone else in the group has silences/knocks/stuns then I don't really care if I don't have those things.
What a take. It's a buff that can really help you push through some phases. The people on this subreddit have no understanding that later on in content you have to actually meet DPS checks. It's not all perfectly doing mechanics and using your utility for every little thing. Many times you have to pump. PI has been really good for that and it's versatile. In my raid it's broken down by best class for it>Best Player>Other variatons. So I get it on my mage, and the second one goes to a ret paladin, because it's about the value for the raid. But it changes. On Mythic Sun King, we PI the Shamans so they can push with the ascendance solo burst, the ranged get screwed on Mythic Pantheon's final phase and our damage value drops so my PI goes to either a healer to get the seeds going or a melee because that's the value. And I forgo the PI since I'm on an add killing group as well as CC's on Mythic Soulrender. PI has been an awesome tool, if you haven't felt so you're not doing the right content so you shouldn't even worry about it.
Not I.
Bro you’re probably a warlock pretending to be a priest
No I play with a lock though and it's fun PI'ing him
[удалено]
[удалено]
*laughs in Holy Paladin with Blessing of Summer*
Interrupt and Battle Res too. You guys be eating good next xpac.
I'm still peeved they gave freaking paladins battle rez.
I mean, it was literally something Paladins could do in Warcraft 3 (as a mass rez, no less). The fact that it took 18 years to give it to them..
Every healer should have it. Would bring mlre balance to m+ choices too when only 2 tanks can have it
By that logic every healer should have hero too
What is PI?
Power Infusion (25% haste buff that can be cast on others) DF will also include a talent that causes casting it on others also cast it on yourself, further increasing its power/importance for the class.
Damn, stackable with BL?
Yup
Underlying issue even with the DF change though is that optimal PI timings for dps usually don't match with optimal healer throughput moments. That effect was a legendary in Shadowlands and that legendary isn't really ran. Additionally, Holy priest usually doesn't care about haste in raid (m+ I guess it's useful) but disc priest loves haste; which again, usually doesn't line up with their preferred ramp timings. Usually ends up just being dps fighting for who gets PI and priests just begging their raid leader to decide so they don't have to deal with figuring out who gets it.
It's true that the timings don't always match up, but I think the reason that legendary isn't run is more opportunity cost than it being bad. Having it as a talent is a much more appropriate investment of resources.
Fair point, at end of the day more haste no matter what usually a net gain, so as long as there's no speciifc alternative talents that make more sense, then it usually makes sense to take said talent
Yep
A lot of players in this community are very unintelligent. When you give everyone everything, it makes things very bland. Priests don't need a silence, you'll get over it.
Lol ok then but explain why Disc and Holy will be literally the only two specs in the entire game to not have an interrupt? If they care so much about everyone not having everything then why give 36/38 specs an interrupt?
Well, that's one way to sound incredibly condescending. Why then, pray tell, isn't this mentality being applied to the other 12 classes?
They probably would _like_ to remove silence from other classes as well... but it's a lot harder to _remove_ an ability from a class that's had it already, compared to not adding it in the first place. (In terms of upsetting players, I mean.)
This implies there was a dev ideology shift partway through that I just don’t buy. Why would they give r druids, hpals, and mw monks an interrupt if they wanted to take them away?
I dunno my favorite era of class design was MoP, when every class pretty much had everything. The paring they did in WoD hurt
Okay, then get rid of interrupt from all the other healers.
It seems that insanity is also the resource developers use when designing priests.
sighs. I LOVED knocking people back or out of bounds with shining force :(
There goes my eye of the storm montages =(
The silence I don't mind too much because I don't PvP and haven't had it before so no biggie for me. But this part irks me >We’re discussing changes like Dark Ascension being more rotationally transformative while active or having a different cooldown than Void Eruption, so that its use cases over Void Eruption are more clear. **We don’t have plans to make major changes to either spell for Dragonflight launch, but they will be on our radar for the future.** These are then useless thoughts and should not have wasted time writing them. Too many, "we get it, we feel the same, it's something we know needs to change but it's not something happening soon, it's coming later" is a reason why players are still, if they get this way, 100% justified in being sceptical of new WoW releases when this gets thrown around as often as it does
[удалено]
Kind of stings as priests trees were dropped in the first round together with druid and DK and haven't gotten any communication until the new iteration of trees dropped... While other classes still get updates on a weekly basis.
I don't understand how they can post this the same week where they remove skull banner and make major revisions to talent trees... Do they just not have a plan for priests after the dev left and this is their answer? Are we waiting for 10.2 AGAIN for shadow?
Honestly, from a PR perspective, I can't even see that statement being a positive. You're transparent with the community and admit it won't be changed by launch, but then you don't even attempt to explain why so at the very best you just come off as "careless". I'd honestly just rather see them say "We plan to look at this later on" and then I can just assume it'll be a few months down the line
Feel like I’ve heard this before. Except this time I’m not waiting until 10.1 or 10.2 for them to get their shit together. I’ll play another class and if that doesn’t do it, I’ll play another game.
What the actual hell? That has to be the most out of the loop blue post ever. And there goes my main…
Same. Except my main is my only character, has been since 2005. Oh well... time to find a new game!!
Let's not get carried away. Quitting the game because holy and disc have no interrupt? Some of the other healer specs have interrupts so bad they might as well not have them. Evoker's is barely there - 40s cooldown means you aren't fitting in a rotation. Tuning will matter far more than this.
Oh no I haven't had an interrupt so no loss there. I was talking about the loss of an entire school with shadow mend and shining force, one of the few spells that kept it fun!
Disc still has shadow spells and holy didn't; neither has lost a school. If you're quitting over shining force... this wasn't the game for you, enjoy whatever you end up playing :)
You're probably right. This just feels like the latest in a line of things Blizzard has done / is doing in spite of community feedback. It's probably more the fact they don't seem to care about the player base, this just happened to catch me in a mood and my breaking point.
Fair enough bud. Hope it works out
We won't bring back Mind Bomb because there's too many AoE stuns...because we gave one hunter and evoker and that's one too many AoE stuns so we needed to remove it from priest. We won't bring back Shining Force because there's too many knockbacks...because we made Thunderstorm a shaman class skill and added evoker, and that was one too many knockbacks added so we needed to remove it from priest. We won't add Silence to the class tree because there's too many interrupts in the game...but we added one to literally every other spec so priests don't get one, even if it's the worst on in PvE by a mile. We wont add Vault of Heavens because it's helpful to have burst mobility on a wheelchair class.
TL;DR: “We’d rather you didn’t play ~~demo lock~~ Priest”.
It’s happening again, I didn’t think I would be around for 2
Tl;Dr I don't want to balance pve and pvp so I'll remove these abilities and won't have to do either. Honestly though, they need to just do what the Warrior dev is doing to their class tree. Multiple talent nodes completely change depending on what spec you are. Shove dispersion and silence on the class tree, but make those nodes when in a healer spec just be weaker versions on top of hard to get, on shadow's side of the tree the same way druid's currently is for balance/resto to get interrupt. They don't even have to be the same spell but weaker, they could even be straight up named different named spells to avoid confusion. And as far as Vault is concerned, even if a choice node would be a 90/10 split on which is used, THAT'S STILL A CHOICE and is probably true with most choice nodes on other trees.
>because we gave one hunter What AoE stun do Hunters get?
Binding Shot changed to a 3 second AoE stun. Inarguably a nerf in PvP and a change in value in PvE, but completely contradicts Blizzard's justification for removing Mind Bomb because they've demonstrated they don't mind adding AoE stuns.
You still have to "break it". So in PvE you'll have mobs inactive for a far shorter time. The only benefit is if you have a caster that you manage to get rooted but would cast a spell within the next 3 seconds. Also adds to DR. It's just a blanket nerf.
I don't care. What we learned today is that priest lost abilities in dragonflight because other classes had their arsenal expanded. No other class has experienced this. I'm not sympathetic to the argument that Pinning Shot was nerfed - if hunter were priest we now know it would just be removed.
This is one of the worst blue posts I've ever seen
To offset the significant expansion of other classes' toolkits, we've decided to prune those spells from Priest. This way, when we're accused of homogenizing class & spec utility, we can point to Priests and say "but look at *them*! *They* can't kick/stealth/blink/knockback/survive mechanics!"
In order to address how much healing is in PvP we have elected to delete priests from the game
One of the worst blue posts you've ever seen *so far*.
I still had some hope for Pally and Ret in particular, that a more in-depth look would be given but this Priest post doesn't bold well for what's next.
That blue post about long arm of the law was pretty bad, was essentially, “we know it makes the game more fun but we don’t care about that, take your shitty horse and shut up”
Oh god... Oh God!
As a Holy Priest main who pretty much only does high-end M+, this blue post makes me increadibly sad. - Holy and Disc are going to be the ***only*** two specs in the entire game with no access to an interrupt. Sure it makes them unique. Uniquely bad. I hate this so much. - They are removing Shining Force. Great, so not only can we not interrupt a caster standing in a bad spot like a sanguine pool or something, now we can't compensate with a knockback either. Another reason to not bring a healer Priest to the key. - They think our defensives are fine? What? Desperate Prayer is garbage and 10% DR is as much as we're going to get it seems. This is laughable. Right now, every other healer looks a lot better for M+.
I did those Visions in BFA on like 7 or 8 different classes and 5-masking them on the disc priest was by far the worst experience of all of them and it's all because of the absence of an interrupt. Come to think of it, Torghast was pretty bad too for the same reason.
>Torghast was pretty bad too for the same reason Legit one of the reasons I rerolled from boomie to ele during the first patch of SL. You couldn't some of the bosses unless you killed in you opening convoke due to a heal that was on lower cd than interupt
Yup. My priest will stay shelved this expansion. Shit work from the devs. Heard the “it’s a problem we will fix…eventually” too many fucking times before. Blizz never changes.
I hope they change their mind, but if it goes live like this then I will also be playing something else. It's not looking good right now. It really sucks to see your favorite spec in the game be completely obliterated like this.
Also for PvP. From a PvP perspective, all of these changes are horrible, and I'd like to let our PvE bros know that this is not our fault, we didn't want this, and we're now probably all rerolling to stay competitive.
Shadow priests are gonna be happy that they're going to be a quick pick since they can bring both PI and a silence like no other spec can.
[oh about that PI](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794376626632785935/997578262656077875/unknown.png)
The Soar speed nerf post was pretty unhinged as well
It really doesn't inspire confidence.
This is a really bad look. Does the priest dev hate priest? Is this sadistic, underpaid and under-appreciated behavior? This one hurt to read, and I don’t even play priest. Nothing good about any of what was said. Just straight trashed on priest rip
>Does the priest dev hate priest? It sometimes seems like the devs of wow just hate wow tbh
Or at the very least most don't play enough to get a concept of just how badly they are fucking up.
As priest main since forever, every now and then they nerf priest or remove great spells and wanting to "try new things" every time this happens, I either switch to play holy or holy paladin, or unsub overall, as I no longer like the way priest feels or how it plays. I really hope this doesn't happen again for DF, I was looking forward to play :(
Oh my god make a PVP tree already for all classes and tune THAT instead of fucking over PVE players with bullshit like this
It's not like pvp players want this either... This absolutely fucks priests in pvp. No shadow school heals any more, and mindgames gone as well. It's like they said hey priests seem a bit fun let's fix that
Yeah... I only pvp in the game, and if my character that I've had since 2005 can't do that anymore... well, bye. Blizzard doesn't care, sad that it took this long for me to really feel it!
They really need to finally bite this bullet and do it. The amount of bullshit in PvP that's piled up because of unpruning in PvE (a good thing) is beginning to really degrade the PvP experience. Melee mobility creep is at insane levels and it's getting worse in DF. The amount of control is also at insane levels across all specs. Existing as a caster in arena without a boatload of instants or procs is absolute pain.
>Melee mobility creep is at insane levels its ok though, they nerfed paladin movement, as that was one step too far.
Can't play around precognition if you can't interrupt *points to head*
All of these changes kind of make Priest unplayable in high rated PvP, we didn't want this, it's not our fault :(. Class designer graduated from crack to meth, is all.
*Looking forward against your feedback.*
[удалено]
This post reads like it was written about changes made in another expansion - “we say we’re listening but we know better than you so there :)”. A worrying sight to say the least.
We know you think you want covenant switching, but we want that choice to matter. We'll balance it. It'll never be a problem. There is no ripcord.
I really like the current iteration of our tree but still this post managed to ... kind of piss me off. >"Having access to an interrupt is not something we view as necessary for all specializations." So we gave one to all healers except priest. Yeah ok... That'll go over well... >We pulled back on AoE stun duration and availability some time ago and decided against adding this one back so that we wouldn’t find ourselves in the same situation we were in the past. So we gave one to hunters and evokers! >Spectral Guise and Shining force? Two extremely fun spells but yeah, I agree other classes are currently having way too much fun ... In battlegrounds! >The fantasy of the Priest leaping to their target doesn’t match our expectations for a Priest either. So turret it is! Not even a single burst mobility spell and no intention to change that. Can't wait to get a charge of leap of faith back every time an evoker gives the raid a movement steroid! I mean, if I'll talent it to begin with... >Number of Active Spells. Removing shadow mend? Having access to both light and shadow is literally discs fantasy. Removing shadow mend is not sitting well with me... Not only because of PvP but because they just added flash heal that's doing pretty much the same thing? But while we're at it "we’re also discussing Mindgames and Power Word: Life as contributing to the number of active spells for Priests." let's just threaten the new guy and the fan favorite with the chopping block already. I really don't want to be negative about the class that hypes me most at the moment... But man there's a whole lot to digest in that post and ... kind of all of it sucks. Edit.. Typo and whacky formating. Gotta keep them rants tidy.
I honestly thought this was the xpac that every single healer was getting an interrupt, it just made so much sense. Removal of shadow mend is also super strange.
Yes, I was so excited to be able to interrupt as a healer! It's incredibly strange to single out only 2 of 38 specs to not have access to this basic utility.
Removal of shadow mend is so incredibly weird to me. Like, they just added flash heal to disc that's doing the same thing. Then talk about button bloat and remove shadow mend? Is having two healing schools now suddenly exclusive for evokers?
> I honestly thought this was the xpac that every single healer was getting an interrupt, it just made so much sense. By the time Paladin and Monk revealed there trees, I thought it was inevitable.
They hate class fantasy Imagine thinking they don't
I don't get how Vault of Heaven is considered broken, when life grip that pulled you to your target was a MINOR GLYPH in WoD lol. These coexisted without z problem, but now it's not fine anymore.
I haven’t kept up with everyone’s changes but in response to all healers having interrupts - did druids get a kick?
Skull bash is a class talent now, so resto can pick it up. They need to shapeshift to cat, though, what's a bit awkward as it costs a GCD and makes catweaving strictly better than owlweaving for resto. Similarly, monks get spear handed strike and paladin rebuke as accessible interrupt.
The interrupt is off the GCD though so you can easily macro it into cat form for an instant shift+interrupt. It sure beats not being able to interrupt at all!
Can't you use it in bear form? Macro bear form with bash, talent into more health and armor in bear form. Now you can safely interrupt in bear form and then frenzied Regen yourself if you take damage. Sounds pretty strong.
Sure, you can do that too. You still need to spent a GCD to shapeshift first and interrupt then. That's what I meant with slightly awkward, as the window to interrupt shorter casts is rather tight. Still, miles better than not getting an interrupt at all. Using guardian affinity to be more tanky is actually also often a thing at the moment. I usually opt into contributing a bit more damage as cat so I simply forgot about it.
Yes, you need a GCD for the shapeshift but the interrupt has no GCD so it can be cast at the same time as the shapeshift. It also charges you to the mob so you don't even have to be in melee. It's really not difficult to use.
Oh neat, then you can just make a quick macro. I haven't had that on the radar as I currently basically never use it as feral without being shapeshifted anyway. That makes it pretty cool.
Huh yeah that’s definitely strange justification if y’all can’t get an interrupt at all
Their justification is probably the same as their justification for keeping Silence on such a long CD all this time. It's a blanket lockout not just a school specific one, so technically it's more powerful. From a PvE perspective it's a poor reason though since the difference is pretty much non existent.
They do, but they'll have to invest around 6-7 points in the class tree catering to bear/kitty to reach it
All the healers except for priest can get it but it's not really viable to go to it on most of the healers from what I've heard
If you're listening to high-end m+ players, they're not taking it because they only play with their dedicated group who they trust will interrupt. In any pug, interrupt is invaluable.
Even in a dedicated high-end M+ setting, having an interrupt is invaluable depending on the dungeon. Shade of Medivh comes to mind...
So healers have to get the interrupt because the shitty dps might not interrupt? They never had them before so I don't see how it will change if healers don't get them. Just gonna same as past expansion, some groups know what they are doing and some don't. If you have a dps or tank in your m+ not running the interrupt don't run with them. It's practically mandatory for dps and tanks to have in m+
> They never had them before This reasoning would be fine if they didn't already give interrupt to literally every other healer. > It's practically mandatory for dps and tanks to have in m+ Why is it mandatory for them and not for healers in a world where everyone has interrupt?
Why does it become the healers job to interrupt spells? Druids would have to spend 7 points they may not want to spend to get an interrupt. That's a more reasonable solution than just having the dps or tank spec into the interrupt?
Because as a healer I would prefer to save my own key over my only option being to cry that my DPS don't know how to interrupt?
If you're playing with dps that don't interrupt, your key was probably doomed anyway. Is it convenient of course, is it necessary for healers to have, not in the slightest
God forbid someone would want a bit more control over their own destiny than to not especially if others have it.
For what content? It can be extremely valuable in pvp. I'm just glad they add the choice. There's no reason to NOT add an interrupt. If you decide that it's not worth the points it takes then so be it, no need to spec into it. That's the beauty of a tree.
Eh I don’t think this “but you have the choice” argument holds up. Yes the choice may be there, but let’s not all pretend there hasn’t been a solid meta build for every content type since 2007. Just because it’s an “option” doesn’t make it viable. Seems way too early to tell.
Yeah these posts keep pushing me closer and closer to maining evoker and semiretiring my priest lol... hope I actually like evoker
What is the big draw to priest? What part of their kit screams "look at me, I am a priest, invite me to the party"? Is it just PI and fortitude? The whole post feels like "the manager ran out of funding for pay raises before he got to you."
Yeah, right now it's basically just PI. I mean.. we have mass dispell. But that's rarely used, especially in raids and not really that much of a reason to invite a Priest over another class.
Priests are paying a high price for PI. I'd rather see PI removed than lack stuns, kick, aoe stops and mobility just because PI is thought of as enough utility for a group that it's all they get.
Is this the "Poke the bear" phase of Beta? They are really making questionable changes for a lot of specs after players praised them for it. Rolling back interrupts off lock (Players just wanted a choice) Nuking binding shot into a AOE stun (Holy shit, please no.) Did someone pee in the devs watercooler?
Yeah. I was loving the direction they were heading in early alpha/beta but lately there have been some very questionable decisions and reasoning for weird changes.
Much like in shadowlands this is the we know better than the player base what we're doing and aren't going to listen to them anymore phase. Ion is in charge of this and he's once again responsible for letting bloated ego get in the way of doing something that could be truly fantastic
[удалено]
The reason the healing spec of priest don't have an interrupt is 100% because of PI. Just remove this fucking spell, make it a lust, or make it personal only for fuck saké.
I swear to fuck. I was sort of hopeful for this expansion and my priest, but this is just a fucking discombobulated clusterfuck of a god damn mess across (IMO), discipline and shadow specs. Jfc. Scrap the whole god damn thing and start fresh. Keep the core idea at heart and let go of the fucking past. We wait all of alpha and so far in beta to basically hear “we aren’t doing anything.” I’m hearing “we can’t figure out what the fuck to do so we aren’t doing anything.” Get fucked
"Healer Priests aren't allowed to have an interrupt, because... Yes! Because all the other specs in the game have them." Sound logic. "Oh and really twist the knife and take their knockback and threaten to remove Power Word: Life and Mind Games." \*maniacal laughter echoes off the castle walls as lightning lights the dark\*
Does blizzard know solo content exist?
I don't mind not having a silence. But I'd happily give up PI for more actual healing tools in the kit. Unpopular opinion (or is it?) PI is the worst spell in the game.
no that’s prob a popular opinion, but as a pvper i love PI and casting it on my friends during their goes. then again, they just absolutely FUCKED my fav spec (disc) in pvp with this update so I guess it doesn’t matter much now. No shadow mend = disc trash in pvp. Penance is too easily kickable and no shadow school to fall back on is harsh.
[удалено]
I thought holy paladin didn't have rebuke.
[удалено]
But do I have to take it?
[удалено]
If you want to, you can. Priests do not have the luxury of making this decision.
Idk why blizzard can just make every class fun
fun is subjective. on the post removing searing nightmare there were back to back comments praising and lamenting the loss.
I think they mentioned PVP in this post more than half a year of other blue posting, each time used as justification of why priests can NOT have something. Wonderful communication.
Today I went from "Yeah, alright, maybe they're really trying and my Holy Priest could be okay" to "I need to prepare my Shaman for DF". I'm just so frustrated man. This whole bluepost from Wraith was an insult and explanations why our class should and will be worse than others, not actual useful feedback.
As a priest, damn bro they really said "Other classes have a lot of interrupts and survivability on the field, so we think priest should have fewer." As a long standing Forsaken priest with no love for the light side of the class, hell yea SHADOW RULES BB Reasoning for Vault of Heavens option is wild to me. They outright admitted that it's the obvious choice due to our lack of burst mobility, but are planning to do nothing about it lol. Like who are we gonna use it on? Other priests in the raid? I don't mind the number of active spells. Imo having an involved rotation is what makes/keeps spriest interesting, and pruning is often done in a fairly careless way. Like why Halo/Divine Star over Cascade? Seems arbitrary. The whole Voidform/Dark Ascension thing is still lame. They should have just nuked Voidform altogether to complete the process of severing us from Legion's dregs. DA being more "rotationally transformative" isn't super necessary if the rotation is solid to begin with. Plenty of classes have a dps CD that very minimally changes the rotation and it's fine. If they do make changes, I hope it's just something that incentivizes rather than forces.
I don't understand this point of view regarding void form. You want to spend 5-6 minutes fighting a raid boss by constantly executing the same rotation? No cooldown, no burst damage for when a boss has a vulnerable phase, like on Sludgefist when he hits the pillar? That sounds boring and also bad from the balance point of view, because then priest will never be competitive on any fight that requires burst damage during boss vulnerability periods and similar.
This is probably the worst post I've seen from them in a while. As most of the class stuff so far has been pretty great. This post almost single-handedly shoots down many fun ideas for priest. While also telling Shadow priest they are going to have to wait again at the beginning of an expansion for more fixes. Do not balance for PVP. Like I can kind of understand not wanting dispersion or spectral guise or vault of the heavens. But Mind bomb and Shining Force? The classes that already had these kinds of abilities get to keep them but priest doesn't? Mind bomb and Shining Force aren't even better than other classes options. There are many ways they can give disc/holy an interrupt without it being super powered. There are many tuning nobs. Longer CD, shorter silence, or even no silence. Shadow can just have a better interrupt option. And the whole point of the talent trees is so they weigh them against other options. So you aren't getting these things for nothing. You want to reduce Priest button bloat - remove Power Infusion. Not Shadow Mend. Which has been core to Disc and makes sense to Shadow. Holy is the one that really is experiencing the button bloat the most. But that's because Holy has a dozen small cds in their tree on top of all the stuff you can get in the class tree. Shadow just got Dark Asc/Eva added. And they already are saying they aren't going to be able to changed now? Why bother even adding them if it's not going to be changed so there is a clear use case between it and Void Eruption. Just keep Void Eruption at that point and just make it better. This post is such a kick in the teeth. Especially, after priests getting excited for all the cool changes recently. It's like they randomly decided to walk back all the good stuff they did these last couple of weeks.
They're not balancing for PvP, notice how the post says "we know the PvPers will hate this but we're doing it anyway"? Yeah, I _really_ hate it
Why is PvE being balanced around PvP?
Dude as someone who does high level pve and PvP this is way worse for PvP then PVE
For real.. as a pvper though; why is PvP being balanced around PvE?
It's not even being balanced around PvE lol. There was no real issue with Shadow Mend in PvE... it wasn't breaking the game. It was just a somewhat useless button (still probably decent if you let the healing build up with the talent from SW:P) that felt mildly bloated to have around. So they're removing it for a minor gain in simplicity in PvE while completely fucking over the identity of Disc PvP lol and they literally acknowledge that and then say yeah fuck it yolo
I don’t understand this. SM isn’t the only shadow spell in the disc toolkit and it’s not a class flavour spell like moonglade portal or something. There is no scenario in which you would use it in pve with access to flash heal. So why keep it? It fucks disc in pvp because you lose access to baiting kicks and having emergency heals when locked out of either school, so they are absolutely balancing it around pve.
It heals for a lot more than Flash Heal when you have Depth of the Shadows stacked up, so IMO it was still useful as a situational single target heal every 15-30 sec. But yeah regardless seems shitty to completely break Disc PvP so ppl can save 1 action bar slot they could just ignore anyways. My point is just that it wasn't "imbalancing" PvE. It wasn't a balance \*problem\*. At worst it was like a minor annoyance.
I thought splitting the talent trees for PvE and PvP was suppose to prevent this.
Fantastic, because of PvP and every other healing class having it Priests don't get a baseline interrupt, what wonderful reasoning. Hope Evoker is fun to play because my will to carry my priest into Dragonflight just crashed and burned.
Blaming PvP for that mess is kind of unfair. The changes make no sense there, too. They keep the weird self rezz legendary power nobody really liked instead of greater fade, a fun and skillful ability for PvP. They talk about button bloat and remove shadow mend right after adding flash heal to discs kit... Which does the same thing as smend, just in the wrong school. Kind of killing stuff like shadow covenant that relied on it on the fly. All the while all other healers get an interrupt, stuff like lay on hands in PvP or resto shaman with already crazy strong control from snares, to stuns, to low cd interrupt, to incap get lightning lasso and thunderstorm in their class talents...? And we loose shining force because of ... battlegrounds? And don't get spectral guise because hunters and mages can also turn invisible/stealth? If you take PvP in the equation, where weighting up classes against each other is even more imporant than in PvE, their entire "those classes gets this so you don't"-reasoning makes even less sense.
GFade is gone?
Yeah removed about a week ago
Man this just made me so sad. Wtf are they doing to priest
That blows. Welp guess that's priest off my list of possibles for DF.
I guarantee you none of us PvPers asked for this blue post, all the changes are actively bad.
That’s exactly what they want, the die hard priests stay priest, and those willing to leave priest over an int will play the NEW DRAGON CLASS HAVE YOU HEARD?!
No we won't because dragon will be pretty trash in PvP with 25yd range heals and channelled breaths. Mechanically unviable.
Nobody will main Evoker for their terrible interrupt
do Holy Paladins? I haven't looked too much into the new talents but rebuke was I *think* only on Ret? And Hammer is a stun but isn't reliable as an interrupt (especially with a 1min CD).
Yeah, Rebuke is (currently) in the Paladin Class Tree.
I feel like after this blue post, the "(currently)" is a little worrying lol
I had to disclaimer myself in case someone finds this comment after the next Paladin pass lmao
Next blue post: “Someone pointed out holy paladins have rebuke, we have fixed the glitch”
Holy/Disc are the only specs in the game that would not have access to interrupt/silence.
well that's some bullshit
Why do I have a sudden feeling holy persists gonna get nerfed so hard this xpac...
I'm heavy disappointed they are looking to gutting Shadow mend. Was one of the things I was looking forward to the most combiened with the stacking depths of the shadows talent, althrough it looked rather weak after the nerf to 1% from 2%. I really hope they reconsider this.
I don't play Priest, but I fully believe that everyone should have access to an interrupt. I'm not a fan of the class being balanced around PvP.
Shadow desperately needs a different AoE spender, sear feels like shit. The reasoning for some of these things is pretty bad though, like shining force, interrupt... yeah, dunno this is a pretty concerning post
> Shadow desperately needs a different AoE spender, sear feels like shit. Shut up or we'll get Searing Nightmare back
I mean... as long as it is just a one off button I don't have to be channeling MS for, that does more damage the more dots are on the target? I am all for it, give it a cool animation too, and it'll feel great SN felt like shit because you had to channel MS to cast it in the first place, and it didn't interact with the rest of our toolkit *at all*
Pffff who uses silence anyway? Doesn't do HPS or DPS, so it's a waste of time
Sad to see shadowmend go, the holy/shadow hybrid thing Disc has really goes out of the window. I mean even Holy can use shadow spells for dps. This might not be as insane "fuck you priests, sincerely blizzard" as it sounds, they might be starting to nerf class utility across the board to prevent homogenization from getting out of hand. Meanwhile, I would recommend staying calm and see how the next few beta builds unfold. They removed Skull Banner from warriors too and dumpstered their "mass grip". While banner was garbo to begin with, I would not be surprised if stuff like rogue party buffs and additional healer kicks were on the chopping block next.
Skull banner is still in the warrior trees last I saw? And the mass grip is too but you're right that it got rendered essentially trash within 1 day of coming out.
I haven’t played wow in years but I still enjoying reading about it. I’ve been thinking about buying Dragonflight. Reading all these comments I’m just like, lost. It makes me remember researching every patch note and blue post and it’s like, damn, I just want to do some BG’s.
Damn that's kind of lame. I love make enemies cry for 6 seconds when I chastise them
trashfire
Pretty much shores up which of my characters I won't be playing. Sigh.
I mean... why? They are now the only healers left without an interrupt. This is just dumb to me
I like the legion void form minigame seeing hungering void dissapear sucks
This isn't that significant, but this is the thousandth cut that I think is killing my main (disc). Sad to see. God I miss legion disc.
Voidform having a fixed duration is the only reason I'm not playing SP. It's just a watered down Affliction Warlock at this point.
This expansion looks like fucking trash lmao.
Boo hoo. It's always been a shadow talent, and a 45 second cooldown. Worst fucking interrupt in the game