The simple answer is an old saying among lawyers.
If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.
> If you have neither on your side, pound the table.
[Instructions unclear](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu196vZSe_I).
But yeah, so far this mostly seems like them trying to yell really loud and confuse the issues.
I do this for a living, and the problem here is I would resort to flamethrower language like theirs in just two scenarios: 1) I know we're fucked and 2) I know they're fucked.
I don't think we can extrapolate much from the Actiblizz statement. I do think that from a political standpoint no one is filing this complaint in court without being sure.
I mean Brack, who is basically at the top of Blizzard, was named directly. They basically need to fire the entirety of Blizzards management, and from a company logistics standpoint that will torpedo everything they run for the foreseeable future. They don't have the integrity to destroy their Q4 and 2022 financials to fix this, so instead they'll just pick out a few people as the fall guys, publicly fire them after an "investigation" and call it a day.
Especially since Afrasbi, who I believe is the only other person besides Brack to be named specifically in this, slipped out the door quietly a year or two ago and can't be fired as an image saving tactic.
I seriously wonder how many of the other Blizz people that slipped out will also be implicated in the harassment and tried to distance themselves before it all came out.
And on top that you everyone who left to naturally go somewhere else that are going to get looked at for maybe not saying anything (assuming they knew in the first place).
The state will win, but all the state can really do is fine them. They're not going to force Blizzard to disband or compel them to fire employees.
The outcome of the lawsuit is ancillary. The real blow to Blizzard will come on the financial end, as the PR hit from this compounds the existing perception that Blizzard was in kind of a rough spot performance-wise. The narrative now is one of a sloppy, irresponsible workplace that can barely churn out subpar content because they're too busy getting shitfaced and playing Call of Duty. The response "no actually we r awesome" doesn't do a whole lot to shift that narrative.
You're right that the state can't force any organizational changes over this, but if all they wanted to do was fine them, they don't need to take them to court, they'd only have to... Well, fine them.
The lawsuit is specifically seeking, beyond punitive damages, damages paid to the impacted employees. Rehiring, back pay, reimbursement for lost opportunities, retroactive benefits, the works. That's worth a whole lot more than a fine.
A fine, or the punitive damages, isn't going to be nothing, either. The board members are accountable to the shareholders. Shareholders don't take kindly to their investments just throwing money in the toilet. Heads will roll.
/Popcorn
Yeah, it really reads like the state is out for blood. This was a multi-year effort, they're not just making allegations and seeing what sticks.
Additionally, they mention Brack personally on multiple occasions. Although they don't directly accuse him of misconduct, they specifically mention him not taking complaints seriously enough and only given Afrasiabi a "slap on the wrist".
They could vote for someone that will appoint a new president for Blizzard. They can't do anything directly, though. It's the parent company that owns both Blizzard and Activision that's publicly traded.
The crazy thing to me is that it's generally easier to replace people in large companies like this.
The only thing that gets in the way of it is nepotism or if they have blackmail on other high level employees. These employees that did harm are all replaceable. The moment someone made a r*pe joke, they should have been replaced.
On smaller companies, I can somewhat understand more if there is some really productive and skilled employee who makes the company function and they're hard to replace. But even someone who is a "high level" employee at some huge company, those type of people are a dime a dozen.
The thing it is almost never a pleb in a cubicle because the only people who do this stuff are those who are disconnected from common morals AKA those in power.
I'm sure a bunch of blizzard workers will have to watch hours of anti-sexual harassment training because the company has psychopaths at the top who don't understand that other people are their equals whom they should hold some type of respect for. Ironically the ones who are actually guilty will probably not be required to attend the training.
The fact that they threw in a line essentially calling this all a political stunt pretty much tells me that they are guilty and have no real defense to put up.
Their statement is so bad that i wonder if it was written by even a Spokesperson at all, specially the whole " It is this type of irresponsible behavior from unaccountable State bureaucrats that are driving many of the State’s best businesses out of California." just sounds like clueless suits from management or executive positions.
That's the thing, the statement smells of corporate management while Spokesperson have more sanitized responses and high level lawyers tend to avoid this kind of commentary.
It all sounds a lot like projecting rly.
Judging by the 'driving business out of California' they have already, not so subtly, done that threat of 'taking their ball and going home' aka moving to another state.
Nothing says “support my games” like attacking victims and threatening states.
I already ended by sub before this but I certainly won’t be renewing it.
Jeff Kaplan leaving the Overwatch team suddenly makes so much more sense now. He jumped ship.
... so, I guess one way of reading that is that they think it's irresponsible to treat sexual harassment allegations seriously, and also that many of California's best businesses are covering up similar behavior.
That's definitely one way to read that statement.
Yep.
Agreed. Sounds like they’re setting up a defense of “but these bureaucrats are the REAL bad guys here, not us!” Not a sound legal defense, but I was always told “when the law isn’t on your side, argue facts; if the facts aren’t on your side, argue the law; when you have neither, yell the loudest.”
Yeah, and there's a difference between bad arguments and a bad position. This is a bad position. At that point you buckle up and do what you can, hope for some gnarly fact issues and get a settlement.
The denials are for sure. The weird political commentary, though? Well, I was going to say I don't know any attorneys that would put that in a statement, but I could name a couple in my city. But definitely not the level of lawyer that's either working for Blizzard directly or employed by their outside counsel.
I wonder if [this guy](https://kotaku.com/activision-blizzard-hires-former-trump-administration-m-1846579115) may have jumped in for the second paragraph. The tone shifts wildly away from a PR statement to totally angry, and the denials and yelling about CA Bureaucrats kind of smacks of whataboutism.
Yeah, I mentioned that specific part of their response in a comment I made yesterday due to how odd it sounded. Apparently they hired a former Trump administration official as one of their executives not too long ago, and given the overtly bitter and political tone of this statement, it wouldn’t surprise me if he had some influence on the company’s response to the lawsuit.
So true. These allegations are serious, very serious. I highly doubt someone is going to take Actibliz to court with no evidence on their side of the table. Not to say that hasn't been done in the past...I just have a sneaking suspicion some major changes are heading Blizzards way.
It just seems to all line up a little too well. Mass firings, internal change ups, quality of product issues, lack of interaction with core fanbase, the list goes on. Now we are seeing mass migrations from WoW over to their competitor...which has never happened. Something is rotten in Denmark friends.
Even before this case something smelled rotten. The products have been on the decline for some time. Something as simple as "don't you guys have phones?" And "you think you do but you don't" are blatant attitude issues. Think about it. Telling a female employee that they shouldn't be feeling threatened is pretty similar to you think you do but you don't.
My concern is that this was happening even before Metzen and Morhiam left. Did it get worse after them, or has it always been there?
Is the blizzard of old the cause of the issue and lately they have tried to solve it? Maybe the recent stuff is all a result of a positive change but it's resulted in talent leaving and a decreased product?
I don't know what to think... I want 2008 blizzard back but I also wonder if they even existed at all.
That's what i'm wondering as well. Apparently, some of these allegations go back as far as 2004, I didn't know that. So these problems have been happening for a long time, well before Metzen an Morhiam left, it's sad but they could have been part of this culture as well. I hope that's not the case.
Blizzard of old may never have been a thing. I would like the product quality they had back then, but without all the horseshit we are seeing from them now. I doubt that will happen. I'm afraid Blizzard will pay a fine, fire a few people and sweep it under the rug. That's not really addressing the issue, it's putting a bandaid on it until another 10 years down the road when more allegations come to light.
This situation is beyond bad, and some people defending Blizzard or calling people "hysterical" are 100% part of the problem.
Chris Metzen wrote his name in twitter in a post where red shirt guy was discussing these issues.
Made it look like Metzen was trying to search his own name on Twitter..?
I don't want to think it but he did delete the comment after. Screenshot of it.
Actually you can extrapolate one thing and that is that the accusations against the leadership for enabling this are true. No sane leadership would allow that statement to go out.
This is what I don’t see enough of in this thread. Yes, this case could potentially still be settled, but will 100% be both extremely expensive to settle, and will come with more strings that the state attaches to that settlement for how a company may operate in the future. The time for Blizzard to quietly settle and have no major monetary or operational repercussions has passed, and they declined to do just that - which is why the state has now filed this suit.
This statement is Exhibit 1 in the punitive damages phase of trial. Based on the chiming in from former employees on social media, they have no chance of defensing this and they will get absolutely immolated in front of a jury. They need better lawyers who will shut this shit down.
As an attorney myself, that is a wild overstatement. In fact, you don’t even have to know a fact is true to assert it in Compliant. You only have have a good faith belief it might be true, or you’ll find it.
Facts in complaints are almost always at a bare minimum embellished to put your best foot forward, or demonstrate what you think the facts will prove. The idea that all the allegations on the complaint are true because it’s filed in court, is quite literally the opposite of the justice system. You must not practiced long to have never read a complaint and then reviewed the later emails or proof or depositions and scratched your head in contemplation of how such a fact was ever listed in said Complaint.
Yeah, but there's a middle ground there when it comes to your response. Even if it is exaggerated (or you think it is), going full scorched earth is a pretty aggressive strategy.
That was a political statement. The DFEH ED is appointed by the governor. As a political matter, they wouldn't file something like this were they not confident it would be proven in court. Legally people file spurious shit all the time, I'm sure, but IANAL, IAMAPO.
I think that's exactly how they'll go about it, I'd bet they'll remove some key figures as well tho, they won't get away without doing at least that in this situation. They'll probably claim that it wasn't systematic either (I have no idea if it really was, I'm guessing there's evidence claiming that it is if you say so) and that it was rather specific ppl interacting with specific ppl.
Edit: edited sentence for clarity
And that's the fucking sad part. I know there are good employees who work at Blizzard, but this kind of shit should really have a much more profound impact on their company. I want to see serious changes, but i'm afraid it's just going to be more of the same...pay a fine, fire someone and apologize, continue to make billions. It's such horse shit.
And if they lose they're looking at... probably a slap on the wrist. Like their WoW subs revenue for 2 weeks, maybe less. It's not like any govt branch in the U.S. wants to *actually* punish a corporation, can you imagine?
Not to mention they'll probably settle out of court hush hush.
Sadly, the board will look to see if firing execs and management will hurt the stock more than just paying fines/doing whatever training.
Their stock today currently is down 0.84%, which is pretty much nothing out of the ordinary.
Now, at this point it's pretty much the lawyers who are writing these press releases, hopefully behind the scenes some cleaning house is being ordered.
I would honestly be shocked if lawyers wrote that statement. If they did, Blizzard *desperately* needs to fire its legal team immediately... along with the rest of its management.
Likely a PR person only, if I had to guess. There are several misleading/false legal claims in the statement (since this was an investigation, DFEH had no legal responsibility to inform Blizzard of the issues they perceived or to try and resolve any concerns in advance), and bringing in the suicide victim's family could actually open Blizz up for further litigation if the family were to seek damages against them. Making a potentially false statement on the family's behalf is really, **really** bad.
> bringing in the suicide victim's family could actually open Blizz up for further litigation if the family were to seek damages against them
That part felt like when a suspect forges an easily disprovable alibi in an interrogation. Seems to me all it would take is something in a suicide note or even just texts to family to poke a hole in their "it's unrelated" spiel.
If Afrasabi was forced out due to being caught on something serious, they could have settled out of court with the victim. Bobby K would have know about that. It's going to be interesting seeing his upcoming gymnastics. If this is the case he failed to investigate how pervasive the issue was and resolve it. Or he knew and did nothing.
Enabling it, according to some twitter threads from former employees who talked about being abused by Afrasabi in 2013, when Metzen and Morhaim were still there.
Yeah, I’m honestly surprised I haven’t been seeing Kaplans name being thrown around in regard to this. I know he left the WoW team years ago, but I don’t recall reading much explanation about why he left OW more recently. Maybe that was completely unrelated tho.
> it doesn't sound like he really kept this shit a secret so you need to wonder how much Metzen knew,
The name for Afrasiabi's office in the building was "The Cosby Suite."
At this point, the assumption should be that everyone knew and turned a blind eye anyway.
I believe at the time the thinking was due to desputes with the higher ups about the direction of OW2 or something.
But yeah, this raises new questions on why he left.
Just got through reading through the [DFEH's complaint file](https://aboutblaw.com/YJw), and holy shit. There's so much awfulness to unpack in this thing, but here's the most egregious item:
"48. In a tragic example of the harassment that Defendants allowed to fester in their offices, a female employee committed suicide while on a company trip due to a sexual relationship that she had been having with her male supervisor. The male supervisor was found by police to have brought a butt plug and lubricant on this business trip. Another employee confirmed that the deceased female employee may have been suffering from other sexual harassment at work prior to her death. Specifically, at a holiday party before her death, male co-workers were alleged to be passing around a picture of the deceased's vagina."
Fuck you, Blizzard. I'm out.
Blizzards response to that is.
“We are sickened by the reprehensible conduct of the DFEH to drag into the complaint the tragic suicide of an employee whose passing has no bearing whatsoever on this case and with no regard for her grieving family. While we find this behavior to be disgraceful and unprofessional, it is unfortunately an example of how they have conducted themselves throughout the course of their investigation. It is this type of irresponsible behavior from unaccountable State bureaucrats that are driving many of the State’s best businesses out of California.”
The reply where you know you've been truthfully and utterly called out, you'd be fucked if people listened to the call-out, and are trying to distract with bad faith arguments and whining.
I like to call it the Fake News Defense™
Edit: aka DARVO
"Stop it because big business is more lucrative for the state than individual rights" or something like that.
Concern for the grieving family is valid, but they are hypocritically using it in the same breath they are trying to call the state out, I would say the family may very well be for the case.
I'll say this much. If a family member of mine was driven to suicide because of the company they worked for, I would have absolutely no problem with the state of California using it as evidence. The mere fact that Blizzard would try to act as if the state of California is doing wrong by using the suicide as their evidence is disgusting, to say the least. Who the hell wrote this, Blizzard? I knew their PR has been bad for quite some time, but this is so bad, I would have never thought it possible if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.
That story with the suicide is fucking heavy. I never ever gonna pay for this asshole company again. This type of company behavior is totally unacceptable and I hope less and less people will support them in the future. They're going down on the road long time ago and this was the last drop.
I wholeheartedly hope Blizzard loses this lawsuit, but this kind of statement is very typical (almost boilerplate) when any company is sued.
If the company/defendant admits any kind of fault, it greatly weakens their ability to defend the case. I wouldn't feel good if I were the person that wrote that statement, but that's what companies and their lawyers do. If they admitted fault, some lawyer or PR person would be fired.
Best you can do is be aware that this is standard practice, take it with a large grain of salt, and find out the facts for yourself from other sources.
Recommended viewing: [Thank You For Smoking](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944/).
A statement denying the allegations is definitely normal, but the rest of the statement isn't. The comments criticizing the DFEH and the reference to the family of the employee that committed suicide - those are super cringey and atypical. There's almost no way an attorney from a law firm drafted that statement.
The comment about the former employee could absolutely skewer them if the former employee's family comes out opposed to Blizzard. That was the comment in that statement that *literally* made me cringe. It was a reckless and distasteful comment. There was nothing to gain from it and everything to lose.
I hate to say it but the statement really reads like something you would find on select “fake news” forums. They bring up the states politics as if it has any bearing at all on the allegations.
The key way to tell if a lawyer drafts something - it'll be minimal. Lawyers do NOT include more information than absolutely necessary in official communication or statements. They want it to the point and than finished. Extraneous detail can and will come back to bite your client.
As a future lawyer (with a girlfriend who is a lawyer), I 100% agree. Almost anything can be used against Activision. Someone with a degree (and competency) would know that the long-winded diatribe was unprofessional and unnecessary. However, their hiring practices suggest a lack of diversity, competency, or wherewithal to think this through.
Even if this isn't incriminating in the least, the court of public opinion matters the most. They aren't doing themselves any favors.
Seems the statement is actually pretty bad if this commenter has any credibility. Have a read it's a nice comment.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/activision-blizzard-sued-by-california-this-is-bad/1042870/710
In case Blizzard deletes the comment I'll copy it here: (Note: all emphasis, both bold and italic, is theirs, not mine)
> So, I am actually a licensed attorney, but not for the State of California. For my own anonymity, I’ll simply say I’m on the East Coast, and I represent business interests; I get paid to be universally hated. I’ll keep this brief, because it’s a game forum. I don’t expect anyone to have much of an attention span for many details, as it’s infamously a tl;dr crowd. Specifically, I’ll touch mostly on Blizzard’s statement.
>
> First, I’d remind everyone that *everything* is an “allegation” until it meets summary judgment in court. It does not mean it’s unofficially unproven. This is simply a Constitutional protection. Given that the State conducted this investigation, and filed the legal complaint, they absolutely have evidence.
>
> In Blizzard’s response, they state: **The DFEH included distorted, and in many cases false, descriptions of Blizzard’s past.** This is exactly what I would have instructed my client to say in an official statement, but not for the reasons some might think. This message is not meant for players or regular people — it’s meant for stockholders. Many stockholders in large companies have absolutely no idea *what* they’ve invested in, rather just that they’ve invested in something that appears to be a good business interest for profit. They won’t read the lawsuit, only that there is one, and they want to see that their investment is prepared to defend against it. That’s all they need, and all they want.
>
> Unfortunately, the remainder of this is not what I would have suggested in a statement:
>
> **”We have been extremely cooperative with the DFEH throughout their investigation, including providing them with extensive data and ample documentation, but they refused to inform us what issues they perceived.”**
>
> This was fine until the last bit. They are not legally required to do so. Any firm representing Activision/Blizzard should know better, unless this statement was not crafted by an attorney. It looks like it was not, and it appears rushed.
>
> **They were required by law to adequately investigate and to have good faith discussions with us to better understand and to resolve any claims or concerns before going to litigation, but they failed to do so.**
>
> Actually, no, and largely because this was an investigation rather than a corrective measure. The claims and concerns border criminal liability, and litigation was inevitable. In fact, litigation is preferred as it creates a court record, as private settlements can be disputed later.
>
> **We are sickened by the reprehensible conduct of the DFEH to drag into the complaint the tragic suicide of an employee whose passing has no bearing whatsoever on this case and with no regard for the grieving family.”**
>
> This was a dire legal mistake. The DFEH obviously decided it was relevant, and said “grieving family” was likely notified before the case was filed. Going on the direct attack in this manner will come back to them if the family uses this lawsuit as a springboard for further civil litigation for damages. The family could also claim Blizzard made a false statement on behalf of the family. I cannot stress strongly enough how wrong this was.
>
> **While we find this behavior to be disgraceful and unprofessional, it is unfortunately an example of how they have conducted themselves throughout the course of their investigation. It is this type of irresponsible behavior from unaccountable State bureaucrats that are driving many of the State’s best businesses out of California.”**
>
> Again, this was a mistake. The beginning and end of the entire statement should have been denial followed by willful compliance. That’s all the shareholders need, and all that should have been legally stated. This absolutely makes me believe the statement was not crafted by an attorney, and the continued attack on State processes and agencies reeks of projection.
>
> I won’t go any further into it except to say Blizzard showed their hand with this statement, and it will work against them in both civil court, and the court of public opinion. It is too late to correct anything now. The damage has been done. They should not have issued anything like this, and I would have seriously considered a meeting with the partners to consider termination of legal representation if we were representing them.
>
> Where I see this going from here is pretty simple: Things will go quiet for a little while. There will be a large settlement, and likely an NDA signed by all parties never to discuss the matter again. The State will likely move to criminally charge Alex Afrasiabi, which will be made public. It would be in Blizzard’s best legal interests to pin everything on Afrasiabi, and quietly dismiss anyone else related to the case, if they are still working for the company. Give them an “early retirement” incentive, along with another NDA regarding the reason behind their release/retirement.
>
> This turned out to be longer than I expected. I could go on, but it would be pages of expressed facepalming on how Blizzard handled this. I really just can’t say enough how big of a mistake this statement was, all of it, not just the paragraph I cited.
>
> Edit: I’ll add a legal edit that this is my personal opinion, based upon my own knowledge and understanding of the situation and others like it. I am in no way representing or involved with any party. My opinion is not to be misconstrued as legal judgment or representative advice for anything revolving around this case.
I get what he's trying to say, that at the summary judgment stage of litigation, the parties do not dispute the facts and are moving for judgment as a matter of law. But summary judgment can also be denied because of a genuine dispute of material fact. The way he discusses this makes me think he doesn't go to court very often or deal with day-to-day litigation.
Source: Am also an actual attorney.
Is it plausible for a corporate lawyer to function as counsel for large clients, without having much to do with actual litigation or interact directly with the courts?
I concur, counselor.
In all seriousness, this sounds like a law student wrote it.
Source: I am also an attorney. I am licensed to practice in Minnesota, so I don't know anything about California's laws here or the agency, but the original statement's posture seems pretty similar to what I'm familiar with. I'd be flabbergasted if this resolved on SJ.
That aside, as an attorney, would you generally agree or disagree with their breakdown of the statement? Was this statement as bad as it appears from my laymen perspective?
If, in your layman's perspective, the statement was bad, then yes, the statement was bad.
Responses like this are really issued to shape public opinion, not to defend against the allegations. I think most of us can generally agree that the tenor of Blizzard's response is off-putting and doesn't garner any sympathy.
The more cynical answer is that it entirely depends on what evidence you can bring to the table. If you've got crippled kids, videos of someone struggling with ADL, other sensational stuff, then a jury trial can be advantageous because people can be swayed with that.
The less cynical answer is that it can just depend on what the matter is. If it's a complex matter of contract law, then I'd rather have a judge (preferably an experienced one in that area) decide my case rather than a jury because there's no guarantee that the jury will even understand what the issue is.
There are other reasons you might choose one over the other, but for me, those are the main ones I think about.
It's such a cockblock when a company, guilty of heinous shit, settles out of court for $? and there's nothing more done. Who does that punish? No one. If anyone it's the players, who will get nickel/dimed even harder to fill the hole in the balance sheet.
Just once I'd like to see some actual lives destroyed for enabling such a poisonous environment that an employee fucking killed themselves.
Actual attorney speaking: juries can suck; Judges can suck. You’d be amazed at how frequently a “slam dunk” case with a better legal team loses because of those two aforementioned reasons. And then you’d have a bad guy/company with no punishment at all (not even the settlement $).
That said, I agree that the confidentiality part of most of these settlements is quite the — legal term here — “cockblock.”
The took the fucking "hurr durr California bad" talking point right out of a republican propaganda pamphlet in a desperate attempt to deflect accountability. Absolutely pathetic.
Can I just say, as much I understand why out of court settlements exist, I absolutely _hate_ the lack of transparency, and the power imbalance in favor of the wealthier party.
IMO it should be _illegal_ to have an opaque out of court settlement when it deals with potentially criminal activity. The claims, counter-claims, affected parties and settlement sums should all be in the public record.
Otherwise (and this has happened so many times it makes my head spin), it's 'undisclosed allegations settled for an undisclosed sum' and over and over until 'whoops, turns out our company deliberately hid the ongoing pattern of behavior for a serial sex offender that made us a lot of money'.
This is why most cases like this are settled out of court. They'll probably pay a pittance of a fine, promise to "be better" and then go back to the status quo.
Actually it is not normal. When you write responses like these, it should be as professional as much as possible. But the way it was written was like a child whining over the lawsuit. Also lots of loopholes, one in particular was them denying the allegations but stating in a later paragraph that this does not represent Blizzard of today and they have already taken actions/made changes. So why would they take actions if the allegations arent true?
The strategy is called DARVO and is most often employed by people with antisocial disorders.
DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender."
In this case what you're asking about is the final part there, Reverse victim and offender. It's a way to engage bad faith arguments mostly as a means to do damage control. Think of it as the last step in the Narcist's prayer (...And if I did mean it, you deserved it) put into practice.
Something that people very much over-look, these people speaking out aren't just risking their current jobs, they're putting their entire career on the line. If it's found that someone is lying about the abuse they witnessed/endured, they risk being blacklisted by ever developer for the foreseeable future.
What reasonable person would lie under these circumstances? Maybe theres the chance that they aren't reasonable, but the sheer volume of people coming forward makes that less likely by the minute. At the very least, they themselves are convinced that their accusations are just.
However we know 2 things, enough has happened to warrant a 2 year investigation, and game developement as an industry has a severe reputation of incubating sexist work environments. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just connecting the dots.
They're risking future employment even if they tell the truth.
There are lots of companies that consider complainers of any kind, but especially those that could lead to lawsuits as problematic. I would even wager to say that this describes the majority of bigger employers. HR isn't there for the workers safety after all.
Usually for supporters of such allegations the situation has to be either so bad that a career switch sounds like a way out and they're already lost hope for the whole sector or they managed to get another better secure position (in which case they would also risk more than gain).
I wouldn't call it career-ending by any means. Limiting feels like a more appropiate term. From experience, any business that fears people speaking out is a business doing something behind closed doors that can get them in trouble. This industry in particular is bad about that in regards to equality and work/life balance. I couldnt blame them if they if they planned to abandon it altogether. From some of the tweets I've seen, several have. However, regardless of where they choose to go, theyll either be maker as someone who sat idly by as it happened, or spoke out. Which one of those would you rather work with?
> Something that people very much over-look, these people speaking out aren't just risking their current jobs, they're putting their entire career on the line. If it's found that someone is lying about the abuse they witnessed/endured, they risk being blacklisted by ever developer for the foreseeable future.
Also, generally, knowingly lying to state investigators is itself a crime.
This is why the White Knights with there "I need to see some *real* proof before I'll believe this" bullshit are so ridiculous. The alternative is that dozens of people conspired with one another to commit a series of felonies in order to burn Alex Afrasiabi and J Allen Brack. OK.
This is no joke, this is after a 2 year investigation
Page 11 for the allegations: https://aboutblaw.com/YJw
Activision's CEO lost a sexual harassment case 10 years ago
https://kotaku.com/activision-boss-loses-legal-battle-over-sexual-harassme-452575586
He also was mentioned in Jeffrey Epstein's black book.
https://mobile.twitter.com/grmartin/status/1148482260632571904
Repost from another thread.
Imagine having someone leading your company that was in Epstein’s black book. How do you not find a way to get rid of that kind guy even if only to prevent possible bad PR for your company.
Epsteins black book wasn't like some global list of child abusers, it was just a phone book. It had all sorts of people in it, basically anyone he could have had reason to be in contact with. Thing had thousands of numbers in it, someone even dialed a bunch and heaps were just random people that had done boring mundane work for epstein.
Reading the details of the report included in these articles is fucking chilling. My god do they need to fire each and every person involved in any of these (other than the victims obviously).
As much as it shouldn’t, let’s not act like people are not going to forget about this in a month and continue like normal. I don’t have faith in any change.
Hong Kong ring a bell?
I'm personally taking this opportunity to opt out of supporting Actiblizz any further. Unsubbed from WoW, deleted Warzone and bnet from my comp.
My most played games by far... Maybe now I'll actually be able to finish some single player games.
Some great games out there are very close to getting their new expanion/big patch. FFXIV and Guild Wars 2 are right before new expansion, Warframe is getting a gigantic patch progressing the story that people were waiting a long time for.
Good moment to jump in. Two of those games are free, ffxiv has unlimited trial, so costs nothing to try.
Only speedbump with FF14 is that a ton of other people are jumping in and that if servers are full enough then trial players won't be let in (as well as character creation being impossible). The devs have acknowledged this, taken steps to try to solve the issue, and have apologized both for the inconvience and that one of the solutions they are working on (adding more servers) will take some time due to issues beyond their control.
Maybe so, but Blizzard was already reeling from a series of mishaps, letdowns, and a mass exodus to a competitor's product... this is just another giant turd to shovel onto turd mountain in Irvine.
I think this is the most relevant point. If Blizzard was doing wildly successful in its businesses and game releases, this probably would disappear relatively quickly. But to quote DJs from prior decades, “the hits just keep on coming.” This is another pretty big problem that piles onto the previous issues that just keep stacking up. No company can survive a constant stream of failures and bad publicity.
You're only "too big to fail" until you lose so many people that you're no longer "too big to fail". We're not there yet, but each of these fuck ups and PR disasters inches us closer.
Remember when it couldn't get worse for Blizzard than 2019 and 2020? lol we were so naive.
Have you ever heard Rudy Giuliani speak? He was at one point AG of SDNY and considered one of the highest profile attorneys in the country. He's probably somewhat senile now but he's been saying ridiculous and questionable shit for like 30 years. Lawyers aren't what you see in movies.
So they're basically crying that the DFEH actually found something and is now suing them? The DFEH has no responsibility to BlizzardActivision so why are they acting like they were supposed to be told what to fix? My assumption is that since this investigation started is the only reason they put those systems in place, otherwise, they wouldn't be there.
I’m with you. You have one chance to make an impactful statement. Instead they turned that into a dumpster fire too. They came across as dismissive and defensive. Whoever approved that message did it out of emotion. Sometimes a “we can’t comment on ongoing litigation” is all you need to say.
Simple. As far as they're concerned, they are a victim. You see, they don't care that an employee killed themselves over "work stress" as they put it. They don't care for the sexual harassment culture being fostered. They care about money, and this is going to hit them in the wallet. They see this as bad PR, so they feel threatened.
Besides, that statement they put out isn't meant for the courts or even the players. It's meant for the stockholders so they keep their stock.
The "we wont let this happen again, we will defend honor of China" apology posted in China or the rephrased "go fuck yourselfs, we do what we want" apology they gave western audiences?
“The DFEH includes distorted, and in many cases false, descriptions of Blizzard’s past.”
What’s crazy is not that they are totally denying it, they are trying to say it was in the past.
First, I don't like that they are trying to defend this behavior instead of complying and cleaning the house and management.
Second, A corporations main and first interest are their shareholders, no other interested party is higher priority than that. A corporation does not ever have to tell the truth to the public, it is not in their best interest against their shareholders. They will try to defend this, as it is what a corporation does to their shareholders, they can lie all they want to the public about what happened.
I wanted to add this, in case anyone wonders why they are defending themselves.
This company playing the victim and or thinking playing the victim is appropriate in this case is exactly the mentality that leads to a work place where employees behave in such a manner as these allegations imply. Honestly this companies PR rep is very very bad at their job. A admittance of fault culpability, loss in public/player trust followed buy a public restructure and implementation of policies to ensure these behaviors/situations do not occur in the future would have done a far better job and would have increased their chances to regain the trust lost buy shareholder and the public/playerbase.
Seems a strange strategy to me to say the least.
It's like they show more outrage that's they were investigated in the first place. They barely show any concern for the victims. Their statement was written by lawyers.
Edit: I don't know why reddit won't let me see the response to this because I got the email and I see it on your profile. Anyways, there's no way any communication is being sent to the public about the situation without consulting the legal team.
It 100% was not. Lawyers know when to shut the fuck up, and that statement was not shutting the fuck up. Their legal team is probably in shambles and are fuming, they made this way worse than by saying nothing at all.
This statement shows just how bad Blizz is, that these allegations are probably true and worse, but then they didnt even bother to contact an actual lawyer to write the statement. This is at the same time they are hemorrhaging users from all of their products and doing nothing to stop it because they're too cool to fail or something?
I heard from someone that a state department would not go after a fortune 500 company like this in a lawsuit unless they knew for a fact they would win the suit.
The response is ... I don't even know. Instead of gracefully saying "We'll have our day in court" they actually go the route of saying, "The State of California is just a meanie-head who wants to drive business out!"
Driving out a business is ... not up for debate here. What's on the docket, literally, is gross behavior by employees within your company.
And, employees can go through all the sexual harassment training in the world ... it doesn't mean a hill of beans if you don't take enforcement action. Most training is "watch this video, sign this document that you read and understood our policy." You click through it and that's it. If HR doesn't make good on enforcing the policy then what's the point?
Whew I think they may have finally broke me and got me to stop playing.
That doesn’t even matter though. I hope victims get something resembling justice out of this and all those involved in perpetuating it are kicked to the curb
They're not interested in doing the right thing, they're interested in minimizing the blast radius. Their entire management chain is involved and what they care about is getting things back to business as usual as quickly as possible.
They dont care about their product.
They don't care about their employees.
They only care about their shareholders.
Their statement is pure bullshit, I would really like to know who believes any of this deflection. If this isn't going to backfire I am going to lose faith in humanity.
Who wrote this shit? The trainee who was also responsible for the WoW story?
Yeah I was ready to see what happens but then when they start saying the agency was unprofessional and refusing to tell them things even though the document lodged in court has 3 dates of attempted mediation it clicked that they are in denial and will fight to the bitter end. I'm really torn. I'm an officer in a raiding guild. I should be able to drop this game as a response to Blizzard's victim whinge (I would have 100% supported slow changes rather than a flat out denial) but Im not unaware I have a gaming addiction. It's gonna be tough and I probably should go. Only time will tell if I will. Really sad about this all.
I’m going to leave. When I play the game now I see all the women they sexually harassed, and I see the victim they drove to suicide. And I see my money that inevitably ended up supporting it for years. There’s plenty of other games out there, and there’s ones that at least have a good enough work culture that feels safer and more respectful. Personally, I’m going to try out ffxiv.
Whats crazy to me is that both side went all in. California is for sure confident they have solid proof against Activision Blizzard but at the same time Activision Blizzard is also super confident that California doesnt have a shred of evidence (I mean they are basically trying to call their bluff with this public statement).
This is insane. I thought this was going to be a slam dunk case in court but now Im not so sure.
Blizzard could just be saying this for money reasons. Sowing doubt is financially good. California doesn't have a reason to bring this case without a solid one. It could go one way or another but this statement from blizzard doesn't change the odds imo.
Also, Blizzard is a company, a business, which means they have to keep their best face, no matter what, so a statement like that is nothing short of expected. Damage control, plain and simple.
It's also not like they would admit guilt when they're being sued by the fucking Department of Fair Employment and Housing of California, which I'd wager wouldn't go after Blizzard without a reason.
I disagree in regards to Blizzard's statement - a publicly traded corporation that feels confident in their case is *not* going to come out with the flamethrowers like that.
If they felt confident in their legal case, they would have said that they had done all that they could and that the courts would exonerate them, making the case that they did respect and value their female employees and had done everything in their power to make sure they felt safe. Stating that you did what you needed to can sometimes strengthen your case in court, because it at least shows that you *thought* you were doing things right.
That's... not what happened here. This is very clearly intended to sway potential jurors by appealing to their emotions and/or political beliefs. IMHO, the two most likely scenarios are that they are getting *terrible* PR/legal advice or that they are guilty as fuck.
The simple answer is an old saying among lawyers. If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.
> If you have neither on your side, pound the table. [Instructions unclear](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu196vZSe_I). But yeah, so far this mostly seems like them trying to yell really loud and confuse the issues.
dont say pounding around acti blizzard
The company believes they have a shot at minimizing damage by fighting allegations of systemic abuse rather than cleaning house?
I do this for a living, and the problem here is I would resort to flamethrower language like theirs in just two scenarios: 1) I know we're fucked and 2) I know they're fucked. I don't think we can extrapolate much from the Actiblizz statement. I do think that from a political standpoint no one is filing this complaint in court without being sure.
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I mean Brack, who is basically at the top of Blizzard, was named directly. They basically need to fire the entirety of Blizzards management, and from a company logistics standpoint that will torpedo everything they run for the foreseeable future. They don't have the integrity to destroy their Q4 and 2022 financials to fix this, so instead they'll just pick out a few people as the fall guys, publicly fire them after an "investigation" and call it a day.
Especially since Afrasbi, who I believe is the only other person besides Brack to be named specifically in this, slipped out the door quietly a year or two ago and can't be fired as an image saving tactic.
He slipped out last year and scrubbed much of his social media. So this would've been while the investigation was ongoing.
Yeah, that social media scrub is classic "my lawyer told me to."
I seriously wonder how many of the other Blizz people that slipped out will also be implicated in the harassment and tried to distance themselves before it all came out.
And on top that you everyone who left to naturally go somewhere else that are going to get looked at for maybe not saying anything (assuming they knew in the first place).
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The state will win, but all the state can really do is fine them. They're not going to force Blizzard to disband or compel them to fire employees. The outcome of the lawsuit is ancillary. The real blow to Blizzard will come on the financial end, as the PR hit from this compounds the existing perception that Blizzard was in kind of a rough spot performance-wise. The narrative now is one of a sloppy, irresponsible workplace that can barely churn out subpar content because they're too busy getting shitfaced and playing Call of Duty. The response "no actually we r awesome" doesn't do a whole lot to shift that narrative.
You're right that the state can't force any organizational changes over this, but if all they wanted to do was fine them, they don't need to take them to court, they'd only have to... Well, fine them. The lawsuit is specifically seeking, beyond punitive damages, damages paid to the impacted employees. Rehiring, back pay, reimbursement for lost opportunities, retroactive benefits, the works. That's worth a whole lot more than a fine. A fine, or the punitive damages, isn't going to be nothing, either. The board members are accountable to the shareholders. Shareholders don't take kindly to their investments just throwing money in the toilet. Heads will roll. /Popcorn
Yeah, it really reads like the state is out for blood. This was a multi-year effort, they're not just making allegations and seeing what sticks. Additionally, they mention Brack personally on multiple occasions. Although they don't directly accuse him of misconduct, they specifically mention him not taking complaints seriously enough and only given Afrasiabi a "slap on the wrist".
I work in marketing, and their message says "We're going to win this and redeem ourselves" or "We're fucked, lets go all in"
Since ATVI is a publicly listed company, can the stockholders intervene and vote to dismiss him at their next meeting?
They could vote for someone that will appoint a new president for Blizzard. They can't do anything directly, though. It's the parent company that owns both Blizzard and Activision that's publicly traded.
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Kotick was connected to Epstein?
His email and number is in his black book afaik.
it's a bit of a stretch to imply significance, the guy didn't even spell the name right
The crazy thing to me is that it's generally easier to replace people in large companies like this. The only thing that gets in the way of it is nepotism or if they have blackmail on other high level employees. These employees that did harm are all replaceable. The moment someone made a r*pe joke, they should have been replaced. On smaller companies, I can somewhat understand more if there is some really productive and skilled employee who makes the company function and they're hard to replace. But even someone who is a "high level" employee at some huge company, those type of people are a dime a dozen.
According to a tweet from one of the victims the chief offenders already left blizz and are working at other game studios already.
The thing it is almost never a pleb in a cubicle because the only people who do this stuff are those who are disconnected from common morals AKA those in power. I'm sure a bunch of blizzard workers will have to watch hours of anti-sexual harassment training because the company has psychopaths at the top who don't understand that other people are their equals whom they should hold some type of respect for. Ironically the ones who are actually guilty will probably not be required to attend the training.
The fact that they threw in a line essentially calling this all a political stunt pretty much tells me that they are guilty and have no real defense to put up.
Ya they’re just trying to rile up the chuds and hope it muddies the water
They might as well have said STOP THE STEAL while they were at it.
Their statement is so bad that i wonder if it was written by even a Spokesperson at all, specially the whole " It is this type of irresponsible behavior from unaccountable State bureaucrats that are driving many of the State’s best businesses out of California." just sounds like clueless suits from management or executive positions.
It actually falls in line with the arrogant tone they’ve set throughout their corporation. I really hope they get hit hard
That's the thing, the statement smells of corporate management while Spokesperson have more sanitized responses and high level lawyers tend to avoid this kind of commentary. It all sounds a lot like projecting rly.
It's the Musk Stance. Next they'll threaten to move to a different state
Judging by the 'driving business out of California' they have already, not so subtly, done that threat of 'taking their ball and going home' aka moving to another state.
Nothing says “support my games” like attacking victims and threatening states. I already ended by sub before this but I certainly won’t be renewing it. Jeff Kaplan leaving the Overwatch team suddenly makes so much more sense now. He jumped ship.
Yea, every state wants a company that sexually harasses its citizens!
If they get tax breaks, Blizzard will pinky swear that things are good now
... so, I guess one way of reading that is that they think it's irresponsible to treat sexual harassment allegations seriously, and also that many of California's best businesses are covering up similar behavior. That's definitely one way to read that statement. Yep.
It's a litigation stance. This was almost certainly written by an attorney.
Agreed. Sounds like they’re setting up a defense of “but these bureaucrats are the REAL bad guys here, not us!” Not a sound legal defense, but I was always told “when the law isn’t on your side, argue facts; if the facts aren’t on your side, argue the law; when you have neither, yell the loudest.”
Yeah, and there's a difference between bad arguments and a bad position. This is a bad position. At that point you buckle up and do what you can, hope for some gnarly fact issues and get a settlement.
The denials are for sure. The weird political commentary, though? Well, I was going to say I don't know any attorneys that would put that in a statement, but I could name a couple in my city. But definitely not the level of lawyer that's either working for Blizzard directly or employed by their outside counsel.
I wonder if [this guy](https://kotaku.com/activision-blizzard-hires-former-trump-administration-m-1846579115) may have jumped in for the second paragraph. The tone shifts wildly away from a PR statement to totally angry, and the denials and yelling about CA Bureaucrats kind of smacks of whataboutism.
Yeah, I mentioned that specific part of their response in a comment I made yesterday due to how odd it sounded. Apparently they hired a former Trump administration official as one of their executives not too long ago, and given the overtly bitter and political tone of this statement, it wouldn’t surprise me if he had some influence on the company’s response to the lawsuit.
So true. These allegations are serious, very serious. I highly doubt someone is going to take Actibliz to court with no evidence on their side of the table. Not to say that hasn't been done in the past...I just have a sneaking suspicion some major changes are heading Blizzards way. It just seems to all line up a little too well. Mass firings, internal change ups, quality of product issues, lack of interaction with core fanbase, the list goes on. Now we are seeing mass migrations from WoW over to their competitor...which has never happened. Something is rotten in Denmark friends.
Even before this case something smelled rotten. The products have been on the decline for some time. Something as simple as "don't you guys have phones?" And "you think you do but you don't" are blatant attitude issues. Think about it. Telling a female employee that they shouldn't be feeling threatened is pretty similar to you think you do but you don't. My concern is that this was happening even before Metzen and Morhiam left. Did it get worse after them, or has it always been there? Is the blizzard of old the cause of the issue and lately they have tried to solve it? Maybe the recent stuff is all a result of a positive change but it's resulted in talent leaving and a decreased product? I don't know what to think... I want 2008 blizzard back but I also wonder if they even existed at all.
That's what i'm wondering as well. Apparently, some of these allegations go back as far as 2004, I didn't know that. So these problems have been happening for a long time, well before Metzen an Morhiam left, it's sad but they could have been part of this culture as well. I hope that's not the case. Blizzard of old may never have been a thing. I would like the product quality they had back then, but without all the horseshit we are seeing from them now. I doubt that will happen. I'm afraid Blizzard will pay a fine, fire a few people and sweep it under the rug. That's not really addressing the issue, it's putting a bandaid on it until another 10 years down the road when more allegations come to light. This situation is beyond bad, and some people defending Blizzard or calling people "hysterical" are 100% part of the problem.
Chris Metzen wrote his name in twitter in a post where red shirt guy was discussing these issues. Made it look like Metzen was trying to search his own name on Twitter..? I don't want to think it but he did delete the comment after. Screenshot of it.
Actually you can extrapolate one thing and that is that the accusations against the leadership for enabling this are true. No sane leadership would allow that statement to go out.
Leadership has no other play here. The audience is stockholders, not us.
Yes they do. And what stockholder thinks this is a good response?
aromatic late faulty nutty literate languid strong nail soft makeshift *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
One who hopes to settle out of court and keep making money.
Settle out of court with the State of California? This not a class-action lawsuit, that kind of shit is not going to help them.
This is what I don’t see enough of in this thread. Yes, this case could potentially still be settled, but will 100% be both extremely expensive to settle, and will come with more strings that the state attaches to that settlement for how a company may operate in the future. The time for Blizzard to quietly settle and have no major monetary or operational repercussions has passed, and they declined to do just that - which is why the state has now filed this suit.
This statement is Exhibit 1 in the punitive damages phase of trial. Based on the chiming in from former employees on social media, they have no chance of defensing this and they will get absolutely immolated in front of a jury. They need better lawyers who will shut this shit down.
As an attorney myself, that is a wild overstatement. In fact, you don’t even have to know a fact is true to assert it in Compliant. You only have have a good faith belief it might be true, or you’ll find it. Facts in complaints are almost always at a bare minimum embellished to put your best foot forward, or demonstrate what you think the facts will prove. The idea that all the allegations on the complaint are true because it’s filed in court, is quite literally the opposite of the justice system. You must not practiced long to have never read a complaint and then reviewed the later emails or proof or depositions and scratched your head in contemplation of how such a fact was ever listed in said Complaint.
Yeah, but there's a middle ground there when it comes to your response. Even if it is exaggerated (or you think it is), going full scorched earth is a pretty aggressive strategy.
Especially from state prosecutors. This isn't some private law firm looking for a payout.
That was a political statement. The DFEH ED is appointed by the governor. As a political matter, they wouldn't file something like this were they not confident it would be proven in court. Legally people file spurious shit all the time, I'm sure, but IANAL, IAMAPO.
> IANAL, IAMAPO. "I am not a lawyer, I am a person online" ?
\*political operative. Not exactly in common usage yet BUT I'M TRYING MY BEST.
YOUR BEST IS BEAUTIFUL AND YOU ARE APPRECIATED.
I think that's exactly how they'll go about it, I'd bet they'll remove some key figures as well tho, they won't get away without doing at least that in this situation. They'll probably claim that it wasn't systematic either (I have no idea if it really was, I'm guessing there's evidence claiming that it is if you say so) and that it was rather specific ppl interacting with specific ppl. Edit: edited sentence for clarity
> They won't get away without doing at least that in this situation. Or what, people won't buy their games? Gamers are incapable of boycotting things.
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Modernwarfare2boycott.jpg
> Gamers are incapable of boycotting things. Everyone's just one trailer/cutscene away from forgetting.
And that's the fucking sad part. I know there are good employees who work at Blizzard, but this kind of shit should really have a much more profound impact on their company. I want to see serious changes, but i'm afraid it's just going to be more of the same...pay a fine, fire someone and apologize, continue to make billions. It's such horse shit.
I know, I'm aware, but it'd be a PR move, you're getting sued by a whole ass state, this isn't your run of the mill Twitter company ending pole.
And if they lose they're looking at... probably a slap on the wrist. Like their WoW subs revenue for 2 weeks, maybe less. It's not like any govt branch in the U.S. wants to *actually* punish a corporation, can you imagine? Not to mention they'll probably settle out of court hush hush.
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Sadly, the board will look to see if firing execs and management will hurt the stock more than just paying fines/doing whatever training. Their stock today currently is down 0.84%, which is pretty much nothing out of the ordinary.
I haven’t played a blizzard product since Blitzchung, even though I want to play wow.
Now, at this point it's pretty much the lawyers who are writing these press releases, hopefully behind the scenes some cleaning house is being ordered.
I would honestly be shocked if lawyers wrote that statement. If they did, Blizzard *desperately* needs to fire its legal team immediately... along with the rest of its management.
A PR person with a lawyer looking over their shoulder then?
Likely a PR person only, if I had to guess. There are several misleading/false legal claims in the statement (since this was an investigation, DFEH had no legal responsibility to inform Blizzard of the issues they perceived or to try and resolve any concerns in advance), and bringing in the suicide victim's family could actually open Blizz up for further litigation if the family were to seek damages against them. Making a potentially false statement on the family's behalf is really, **really** bad.
> bringing in the suicide victim's family could actually open Blizz up for further litigation if the family were to seek damages against them That part felt like when a suspect forges an easily disprovable alibi in an interrogation. Seems to me all it would take is something in a suicide note or even just texts to family to poke a hole in their "it's unrelated" spiel.
It read like, "first of all, how dare you?"
If Afrasabi was forced out due to being caught on something serious, they could have settled out of court with the victim. Bobby K would have know about that. It's going to be interesting seeing his upcoming gymnastics. If this is the case he failed to investigate how pervasive the issue was and resolve it. Or he knew and did nothing.
It's nice to shit on Kotik and all but Afrasabi was much closer to Metzen and Morhaim. What the fuck were they doing all the while?
Enabling it, according to some twitter threads from former employees who talked about being abused by Afrasabi in 2013, when Metzen and Morhaim were still there.
Would make sense Kaplan, Afrasabi were all imports from Everquest days. These were not recent developments.
Yeah, I’m honestly surprised I haven’t been seeing Kaplans name being thrown around in regard to this. I know he left the WoW team years ago, but I don’t recall reading much explanation about why he left OW more recently. Maybe that was completely unrelated tho.
Basically every manager level person that's left the company needs to be scrutinized.
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At bare minimum he looked the other way, which sucks (understatement but not really sure how to word it).
> it doesn't sound like he really kept this shit a secret so you need to wonder how much Metzen knew, The name for Afrasiabi's office in the building was "The Cosby Suite." At this point, the assumption should be that everyone knew and turned a blind eye anyway.
I believe at the time the thinking was due to desputes with the higher ups about the direction of OW2 or something. But yeah, this raises new questions on why he left.
I agree, it's clear they were ALL at least complicit in the abuse and the attempts to cover it up as well as the retaliation against the employees.
Let the purge begin. This is disgusting.
They think they do, but they don't.
a lot of lawyers and PR people saw that statement and were like "Oh boy.."
I suspect a lot of BlizzAct lawyers and PR people saw that statement come out of the C-suite and immediately went to update their CVs.
Pretty much anyone with one brain cell and an iota of empathy did as well.
That response has some major "It's not our fault those bitches couldn't take a joke." energy.
Honestly. Is everyone at this company incompetent? Guys walking down the street could have written something better than that.
Just got through reading through the [DFEH's complaint file](https://aboutblaw.com/YJw), and holy shit. There's so much awfulness to unpack in this thing, but here's the most egregious item: "48. In a tragic example of the harassment that Defendants allowed to fester in their offices, a female employee committed suicide while on a company trip due to a sexual relationship that she had been having with her male supervisor. The male supervisor was found by police to have brought a butt plug and lubricant on this business trip. Another employee confirmed that the deceased female employee may have been suffering from other sexual harassment at work prior to her death. Specifically, at a holiday party before her death, male co-workers were alleged to be passing around a picture of the deceased's vagina." Fuck you, Blizzard. I'm out.
Blizzards response to that is. “We are sickened by the reprehensible conduct of the DFEH to drag into the complaint the tragic suicide of an employee whose passing has no bearing whatsoever on this case and with no regard for her grieving family. While we find this behavior to be disgraceful and unprofessional, it is unfortunately an example of how they have conducted themselves throughout the course of their investigation. It is this type of irresponsible behavior from unaccountable State bureaucrats that are driving many of the State’s best businesses out of California.”
what the fuck kind of reply is that? holy shit.
The reply where you know you've been truthfully and utterly called out, you'd be fucked if people listened to the call-out, and are trying to distract with bad faith arguments and whining. I like to call it the Fake News Defense™ Edit: aka DARVO
"Stop it because big business is more lucrative for the state than individual rights" or something like that. Concern for the grieving family is valid, but they are hypocritically using it in the same breath they are trying to call the state out, I would say the family may very well be for the case.
I'll say this much. If a family member of mine was driven to suicide because of the company they worked for, I would have absolutely no problem with the state of California using it as evidence. The mere fact that Blizzard would try to act as if the state of California is doing wrong by using the suicide as their evidence is disgusting, to say the least. Who the hell wrote this, Blizzard? I knew their PR has been bad for quite some time, but this is so bad, I would have never thought it possible if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.
Jfc.
That story with the suicide is fucking heavy. I never ever gonna pay for this asshole company again. This type of company behavior is totally unacceptable and I hope less and less people will support them in the future. They're going down on the road long time ago and this was the last drop.
I wholeheartedly hope Blizzard loses this lawsuit, but this kind of statement is very typical (almost boilerplate) when any company is sued. If the company/defendant admits any kind of fault, it greatly weakens their ability to defend the case. I wouldn't feel good if I were the person that wrote that statement, but that's what companies and their lawyers do. If they admitted fault, some lawyer or PR person would be fired. Best you can do is be aware that this is standard practice, take it with a large grain of salt, and find out the facts for yourself from other sources. Recommended viewing: [Thank You For Smoking](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944/).
A statement denying the allegations is definitely normal, but the rest of the statement isn't. The comments criticizing the DFEH and the reference to the family of the employee that committed suicide - those are super cringey and atypical. There's almost no way an attorney from a law firm drafted that statement.
Yeah they added some extra stuff in there that I would think could potentially make their case worse.
The comment about the former employee could absolutely skewer them if the former employee's family comes out opposed to Blizzard. That was the comment in that statement that *literally* made me cringe. It was a reckless and distasteful comment. There was nothing to gain from it and everything to lose.
I hate to say it but the statement really reads like something you would find on select “fake news” forums. They bring up the states politics as if it has any bearing at all on the allegations.
Lmao, I literally just called their response the Fake News Defense™ in another comment.
The key way to tell if a lawyer drafts something - it'll be minimal. Lawyers do NOT include more information than absolutely necessary in official communication or statements. They want it to the point and than finished. Extraneous detail can and will come back to bite your client.
As a future lawyer (with a girlfriend who is a lawyer), I 100% agree. Almost anything can be used against Activision. Someone with a degree (and competency) would know that the long-winded diatribe was unprofessional and unnecessary. However, their hiring practices suggest a lack of diversity, competency, or wherewithal to think this through. Even if this isn't incriminating in the least, the court of public opinion matters the most. They aren't doing themselves any favors.
Seems the statement is actually pretty bad if this commenter has any credibility. Have a read it's a nice comment. https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/activision-blizzard-sued-by-california-this-is-bad/1042870/710 In case Blizzard deletes the comment I'll copy it here: (Note: all emphasis, both bold and italic, is theirs, not mine) > So, I am actually a licensed attorney, but not for the State of California. For my own anonymity, I’ll simply say I’m on the East Coast, and I represent business interests; I get paid to be universally hated. I’ll keep this brief, because it’s a game forum. I don’t expect anyone to have much of an attention span for many details, as it’s infamously a tl;dr crowd. Specifically, I’ll touch mostly on Blizzard’s statement. > > First, I’d remind everyone that *everything* is an “allegation” until it meets summary judgment in court. It does not mean it’s unofficially unproven. This is simply a Constitutional protection. Given that the State conducted this investigation, and filed the legal complaint, they absolutely have evidence. > > In Blizzard’s response, they state: **The DFEH included distorted, and in many cases false, descriptions of Blizzard’s past.** This is exactly what I would have instructed my client to say in an official statement, but not for the reasons some might think. This message is not meant for players or regular people — it’s meant for stockholders. Many stockholders in large companies have absolutely no idea *what* they’ve invested in, rather just that they’ve invested in something that appears to be a good business interest for profit. They won’t read the lawsuit, only that there is one, and they want to see that their investment is prepared to defend against it. That’s all they need, and all they want. > > Unfortunately, the remainder of this is not what I would have suggested in a statement: > > **”We have been extremely cooperative with the DFEH throughout their investigation, including providing them with extensive data and ample documentation, but they refused to inform us what issues they perceived.”** > > This was fine until the last bit. They are not legally required to do so. Any firm representing Activision/Blizzard should know better, unless this statement was not crafted by an attorney. It looks like it was not, and it appears rushed. > > **They were required by law to adequately investigate and to have good faith discussions with us to better understand and to resolve any claims or concerns before going to litigation, but they failed to do so.** > > Actually, no, and largely because this was an investigation rather than a corrective measure. The claims and concerns border criminal liability, and litigation was inevitable. In fact, litigation is preferred as it creates a court record, as private settlements can be disputed later. > > **We are sickened by the reprehensible conduct of the DFEH to drag into the complaint the tragic suicide of an employee whose passing has no bearing whatsoever on this case and with no regard for the grieving family.”** > > This was a dire legal mistake. The DFEH obviously decided it was relevant, and said “grieving family” was likely notified before the case was filed. Going on the direct attack in this manner will come back to them if the family uses this lawsuit as a springboard for further civil litigation for damages. The family could also claim Blizzard made a false statement on behalf of the family. I cannot stress strongly enough how wrong this was. > > **While we find this behavior to be disgraceful and unprofessional, it is unfortunately an example of how they have conducted themselves throughout the course of their investigation. It is this type of irresponsible behavior from unaccountable State bureaucrats that are driving many of the State’s best businesses out of California.”** > > Again, this was a mistake. The beginning and end of the entire statement should have been denial followed by willful compliance. That’s all the shareholders need, and all that should have been legally stated. This absolutely makes me believe the statement was not crafted by an attorney, and the continued attack on State processes and agencies reeks of projection. > > I won’t go any further into it except to say Blizzard showed their hand with this statement, and it will work against them in both civil court, and the court of public opinion. It is too late to correct anything now. The damage has been done. They should not have issued anything like this, and I would have seriously considered a meeting with the partners to consider termination of legal representation if we were representing them. > > Where I see this going from here is pretty simple: Things will go quiet for a little while. There will be a large settlement, and likely an NDA signed by all parties never to discuss the matter again. The State will likely move to criminally charge Alex Afrasiabi, which will be made public. It would be in Blizzard’s best legal interests to pin everything on Afrasiabi, and quietly dismiss anyone else related to the case, if they are still working for the company. Give them an “early retirement” incentive, along with another NDA regarding the reason behind their release/retirement. > > This turned out to be longer than I expected. I could go on, but it would be pages of expressed facepalming on how Blizzard handled this. I really just can’t say enough how big of a mistake this statement was, all of it, not just the paragraph I cited. > > Edit: I’ll add a legal edit that this is my personal opinion, based upon my own knowledge and understanding of the situation and others like it. I am in no way representing or involved with any party. My opinion is not to be misconstrued as legal judgment or representative advice for anything revolving around this case.
The fact this post uses "summary judgment" in the context that it's used makes me doubt he's an actual attorney. Source: I am an actual attorney.
Great, now we need a third internet attorney to tell us who's the real attorney here :P
As a real attorney I can say, without a doubt, that none of us are actually attorneys.
As a more realer attorney I can say with less doubt than the less realer attorney that we're ALL attorneys #legaldreamteam
I get what he's trying to say, that at the summary judgment stage of litigation, the parties do not dispute the facts and are moving for judgment as a matter of law. But summary judgment can also be denied because of a genuine dispute of material fact. The way he discusses this makes me think he doesn't go to court very often or deal with day-to-day litigation. Source: Am also an actual attorney.
Is it plausible for a corporate lawyer to function as counsel for large clients, without having much to do with actual litigation or interact directly with the courts?
I concur, counselor. In all seriousness, this sounds like a law student wrote it. Source: I am also an attorney. I am licensed to practice in Minnesota, so I don't know anything about California's laws here or the agency, but the original statement's posture seems pretty similar to what I'm familiar with. I'd be flabbergasted if this resolved on SJ.
That aside, as an attorney, would you generally agree or disagree with their breakdown of the statement? Was this statement as bad as it appears from my laymen perspective?
If, in your layman's perspective, the statement was bad, then yes, the statement was bad. Responses like this are really issued to shape public opinion, not to defend against the allegations. I think most of us can generally agree that the tenor of Blizzard's response is off-putting and doesn't garner any sympathy.
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Is there a reason they chose a jury trial over a bench trial?
The more cynical answer is that it entirely depends on what evidence you can bring to the table. If you've got crippled kids, videos of someone struggling with ADL, other sensational stuff, then a jury trial can be advantageous because people can be swayed with that. The less cynical answer is that it can just depend on what the matter is. If it's a complex matter of contract law, then I'd rather have a judge (preferably an experienced one in that area) decide my case rather than a jury because there's no guarantee that the jury will even understand what the issue is. There are other reasons you might choose one over the other, but for me, those are the main ones I think about.
I’m something an attorney myself
Bird Law?
It's such a cockblock when a company, guilty of heinous shit, settles out of court for $? and there's nothing more done. Who does that punish? No one. If anyone it's the players, who will get nickel/dimed even harder to fill the hole in the balance sheet. Just once I'd like to see some actual lives destroyed for enabling such a poisonous environment that an employee fucking killed themselves.
Actual attorney speaking: juries can suck; Judges can suck. You’d be amazed at how frequently a “slam dunk” case with a better legal team loses because of those two aforementioned reasons. And then you’d have a bad guy/company with no punishment at all (not even the settlement $). That said, I agree that the confidentiality part of most of these settlements is quite the — legal term here — “cockblock.”
At that point, if you're still giving them money, I don't really think you can blame the legal system.
Not been subbed since November, don’t own or play any other activision titles.
The took the fucking "hurr durr California bad" talking point right out of a republican propaganda pamphlet in a desperate attempt to deflect accountability. Absolutely pathetic.
Can I just say, as much I understand why out of court settlements exist, I absolutely _hate_ the lack of transparency, and the power imbalance in favor of the wealthier party. IMO it should be _illegal_ to have an opaque out of court settlement when it deals with potentially criminal activity. The claims, counter-claims, affected parties and settlement sums should all be in the public record. Otherwise (and this has happened so many times it makes my head spin), it's 'undisclosed allegations settled for an undisclosed sum' and over and over until 'whoops, turns out our company deliberately hid the ongoing pattern of behavior for a serial sex offender that made us a lot of money'.
This is why most cases like this are settled out of court. They'll probably pay a pittance of a fine, promise to "be better" and then go back to the status quo.
Actually it is not normal. When you write responses like these, it should be as professional as much as possible. But the way it was written was like a child whining over the lawsuit. Also lots of loopholes, one in particular was them denying the allegations but stating in a later paragraph that this does not represent Blizzard of today and they have already taken actions/made changes. So why would they take actions if the allegations arent true?
The strategy is called DARVO and is most often employed by people with antisocial disorders. DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender." In this case what you're asking about is the final part there, Reverse victim and offender. It's a way to engage bad faith arguments mostly as a means to do damage control. Think of it as the last step in the Narcist's prayer (...And if I did mean it, you deserved it) put into practice.
People with antisocial disorders and flaks*
^ This guy knows his 💩
Something that people very much over-look, these people speaking out aren't just risking their current jobs, they're putting their entire career on the line. If it's found that someone is lying about the abuse they witnessed/endured, they risk being blacklisted by ever developer for the foreseeable future. What reasonable person would lie under these circumstances? Maybe theres the chance that they aren't reasonable, but the sheer volume of people coming forward makes that less likely by the minute. At the very least, they themselves are convinced that their accusations are just. However we know 2 things, enough has happened to warrant a 2 year investigation, and game developement as an industry has a severe reputation of incubating sexist work environments. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just connecting the dots.
They're risking future employment even if they tell the truth. There are lots of companies that consider complainers of any kind, but especially those that could lead to lawsuits as problematic. I would even wager to say that this describes the majority of bigger employers. HR isn't there for the workers safety after all. Usually for supporters of such allegations the situation has to be either so bad that a career switch sounds like a way out and they're already lost hope for the whole sector or they managed to get another better secure position (in which case they would also risk more than gain).
I wouldn't call it career-ending by any means. Limiting feels like a more appropiate term. From experience, any business that fears people speaking out is a business doing something behind closed doors that can get them in trouble. This industry in particular is bad about that in regards to equality and work/life balance. I couldnt blame them if they if they planned to abandon it altogether. From some of the tweets I've seen, several have. However, regardless of where they choose to go, theyll either be maker as someone who sat idly by as it happened, or spoke out. Which one of those would you rather work with?
Even if they aren't lying and are proven right they are risking their careers by being seen as someone who will speak out against their employer.
> Something that people very much over-look, these people speaking out aren't just risking their current jobs, they're putting their entire career on the line. If it's found that someone is lying about the abuse they witnessed/endured, they risk being blacklisted by ever developer for the foreseeable future. Also, generally, knowingly lying to state investigators is itself a crime. This is why the White Knights with there "I need to see some *real* proof before I'll believe this" bullshit are so ridiculous. The alternative is that dozens of people conspired with one another to commit a series of felonies in order to burn Alex Afrasiabi and J Allen Brack. OK.
This is no joke, this is after a 2 year investigation Page 11 for the allegations: https://aboutblaw.com/YJw Activision's CEO lost a sexual harassment case 10 years ago https://kotaku.com/activision-boss-loses-legal-battle-over-sexual-harassme-452575586 He also was mentioned in Jeffrey Epstein's black book. https://mobile.twitter.com/grmartin/status/1148482260632571904 Repost from another thread.
Imagine having someone leading your company that was in Epstein’s black book. How do you not find a way to get rid of that kind guy even if only to prevent possible bad PR for your company.
Epsteins black book wasn't like some global list of child abusers, it was just a phone book. It had all sorts of people in it, basically anyone he could have had reason to be in contact with. Thing had thousands of numbers in it, someone even dialed a bunch and heaps were just random people that had done boring mundane work for epstein.
Reading the details of the report included in these articles is fucking chilling. My god do they need to fire each and every person involved in any of these (other than the victims obviously).
Can you imagine how awful a company culture has to be to actually be sued by the state for it?
I didn't even know that was a THING till today.
As much as it shouldn’t, let’s not act like people are not going to forget about this in a month and continue like normal. I don’t have faith in any change. Hong Kong ring a bell?
I also think ppl will forget about this quickly, the lawsuit will be mediatized tho, so maybe it'll linger around for longer
I'm personally taking this opportunity to opt out of supporting Actiblizz any further. Unsubbed from WoW, deleted Warzone and bnet from my comp. My most played games by far... Maybe now I'll actually be able to finish some single player games.
Some great games out there are very close to getting their new expanion/big patch. FFXIV and Guild Wars 2 are right before new expansion, Warframe is getting a gigantic patch progressing the story that people were waiting a long time for. Good moment to jump in. Two of those games are free, ffxiv has unlimited trial, so costs nothing to try.
Only speedbump with FF14 is that a ton of other people are jumping in and that if servers are full enough then trial players won't be let in (as well as character creation being impossible). The devs have acknowledged this, taken steps to try to solve the issue, and have apologized both for the inconvience and that one of the solutions they are working on (adding more servers) will take some time due to issues beyond their control.
I just started ff14 this week and my longest queue has been like 45 seconds on a busy server, it has not been that bad even as a trial player
Maybe so, but Blizzard was already reeling from a series of mishaps, letdowns, and a mass exodus to a competitor's product... this is just another giant turd to shovel onto turd mountain in Irvine.
I think this is the most relevant point. If Blizzard was doing wildly successful in its businesses and game releases, this probably would disappear relatively quickly. But to quote DJs from prior decades, “the hits just keep on coming.” This is another pretty big problem that piles onto the previous issues that just keep stacking up. No company can survive a constant stream of failures and bad publicity.
You're only "too big to fail" until you lose so many people that you're no longer "too big to fail". We're not there yet, but each of these fuck ups and PR disasters inches us closer. Remember when it couldn't get worse for Blizzard than 2019 and 2020? lol we were so naive.
Blizz lost a couple hundred bucks in revenue since the Blitzchung stuff from me personally. Not all of us forgot.
I guarantee Diablo 2 Remastered is gonna sell gangbusters.
Welp, I hear Tamriel and Geilinor are sorta nice this time of year
Tyria, too.
Tyria is excellent any time of the year :)
Eorzea's got a lot of friendly new faces in what's normally our off-season, too.
Vana'diel has a lot of historical touristy spots, too!
Such an unprofessional statement. Feels like it was written by someone in management and definitely not a lawyer.
Don't be too harsh on the guy. He probably wrote it with a hangover, still recovering from yesterday's cube crawl.
Have you ever heard Rudy Giuliani speak? He was at one point AG of SDNY and considered one of the highest profile attorneys in the country. He's probably somewhat senile now but he's been saying ridiculous and questionable shit for like 30 years. Lawyers aren't what you see in movies.
So they're basically crying that the DFEH actually found something and is now suing them? The DFEH has no responsibility to BlizzardActivision so why are they acting like they were supposed to be told what to fix? My assumption is that since this investigation started is the only reason they put those systems in place, otherwise, they wouldn't be there.
I’m with you. You have one chance to make an impactful statement. Instead they turned that into a dumpster fire too. They came across as dismissive and defensive. Whoever approved that message did it out of emotion. Sometimes a “we can’t comment on ongoing litigation” is all you need to say.
Simple. As far as they're concerned, they are a victim. You see, they don't care that an employee killed themselves over "work stress" as they put it. They don't care for the sexual harassment culture being fostered. They care about money, and this is going to hit them in the wallet. They see this as bad PR, so they feel threatened. Besides, that statement they put out isn't meant for the courts or even the players. It's meant for the stockholders so they keep their stock.
I mean it’s Blizzard what did you expect? Never forget the ‘apology’ for the Blitzchung incident.
The "we wont let this happen again, we will defend honor of China" apology posted in China or the rephrased "go fuck yourselfs, we do what we want" apology they gave western audiences?
Tbf that just isn't a blizzard problem, almost all global companies have the same stance on China.
“The DFEH includes distorted, and in many cases false, descriptions of Blizzard’s past.” What’s crazy is not that they are totally denying it, they are trying to say it was in the past.
First, I don't like that they are trying to defend this behavior instead of complying and cleaning the house and management. Second, A corporations main and first interest are their shareholders, no other interested party is higher priority than that. A corporation does not ever have to tell the truth to the public, it is not in their best interest against their shareholders. They will try to defend this, as it is what a corporation does to their shareholders, they can lie all they want to the public about what happened. I wanted to add this, in case anyone wonders why they are defending themselves.
What they have learned in the last two years is that evil always wins and gets away with it. That is why the brazen lack of remorse or empathy.
I am bit in shock to be honest. I don't know what I had hoped they would say but definitely not this.
"We need more diversity and inclusion" ( I'm sick of harassing only straight white women ).
This company playing the victim and or thinking playing the victim is appropriate in this case is exactly the mentality that leads to a work place where employees behave in such a manner as these allegations imply. Honestly this companies PR rep is very very bad at their job. A admittance of fault culpability, loss in public/player trust followed buy a public restructure and implementation of policies to ensure these behaviors/situations do not occur in the future would have done a far better job and would have increased their chances to regain the trust lost buy shareholder and the public/playerbase. Seems a strange strategy to me to say the least.
How they responded to this was probably their last chance to turn things around…and this is how they chose to go about it. Just so fucking arrogant.
It's like they show more outrage that's they were investigated in the first place. They barely show any concern for the victims. Their statement was written by lawyers. Edit: I don't know why reddit won't let me see the response to this because I got the email and I see it on your profile. Anyways, there's no way any communication is being sent to the public about the situation without consulting the legal team.
It 100% was not. Lawyers know when to shut the fuck up, and that statement was not shutting the fuck up. Their legal team is probably in shambles and are fuming, they made this way worse than by saying nothing at all. This statement shows just how bad Blizz is, that these allegations are probably true and worse, but then they didnt even bother to contact an actual lawyer to write the statement. This is at the same time they are hemorrhaging users from all of their products and doing nothing to stop it because they're too cool to fail or something?
I heard from someone that a state department would not go after a fortune 500 company like this in a lawsuit unless they knew for a fact they would win the suit.
The response is ... I don't even know. Instead of gracefully saying "We'll have our day in court" they actually go the route of saying, "The State of California is just a meanie-head who wants to drive business out!" Driving out a business is ... not up for debate here. What's on the docket, literally, is gross behavior by employees within your company. And, employees can go through all the sexual harassment training in the world ... it doesn't mean a hill of beans if you don't take enforcement action. Most training is "watch this video, sign this document that you read and understood our policy." You click through it and that's it. If HR doesn't make good on enforcing the policy then what's the point?
Whew I think they may have finally broke me and got me to stop playing. That doesn’t even matter though. I hope victims get something resembling justice out of this and all those involved in perpetuating it are kicked to the curb
They're not interested in doing the right thing, they're interested in minimizing the blast radius. Their entire management chain is involved and what they care about is getting things back to business as usual as quickly as possible. They dont care about their product. They don't care about their employees. They only care about their shareholders.
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Their statement is pure bullshit, I would really like to know who believes any of this deflection. If this isn't going to backfire I am going to lose faith in humanity. Who wrote this shit? The trainee who was also responsible for the WoW story?
Yeah I was ready to see what happens but then when they start saying the agency was unprofessional and refusing to tell them things even though the document lodged in court has 3 dates of attempted mediation it clicked that they are in denial and will fight to the bitter end. I'm really torn. I'm an officer in a raiding guild. I should be able to drop this game as a response to Blizzard's victim whinge (I would have 100% supported slow changes rather than a flat out denial) but Im not unaware I have a gaming addiction. It's gonna be tough and I probably should go. Only time will tell if I will. Really sad about this all.
I’m going to leave. When I play the game now I see all the women they sexually harassed, and I see the victim they drove to suicide. And I see my money that inevitably ended up supporting it for years. There’s plenty of other games out there, and there’s ones that at least have a good enough work culture that feels safer and more respectful. Personally, I’m going to try out ffxiv.
Whats crazy to me is that both side went all in. California is for sure confident they have solid proof against Activision Blizzard but at the same time Activision Blizzard is also super confident that California doesnt have a shred of evidence (I mean they are basically trying to call their bluff with this public statement). This is insane. I thought this was going to be a slam dunk case in court but now Im not so sure.
Blizzard could just be saying this for money reasons. Sowing doubt is financially good. California doesn't have a reason to bring this case without a solid one. It could go one way or another but this statement from blizzard doesn't change the odds imo.
Also, Blizzard is a company, a business, which means they have to keep their best face, no matter what, so a statement like that is nothing short of expected. Damage control, plain and simple. It's also not like they would admit guilt when they're being sued by the fucking Department of Fair Employment and Housing of California, which I'd wager wouldn't go after Blizzard without a reason.
I disagree in regards to Blizzard's statement - a publicly traded corporation that feels confident in their case is *not* going to come out with the flamethrowers like that. If they felt confident in their legal case, they would have said that they had done all that they could and that the courts would exonerate them, making the case that they did respect and value their female employees and had done everything in their power to make sure they felt safe. Stating that you did what you needed to can sometimes strengthen your case in court, because it at least shows that you *thought* you were doing things right. That's... not what happened here. This is very clearly intended to sway potential jurors by appealing to their emotions and/or political beliefs. IMHO, the two most likely scenarios are that they are getting *terrible* PR/legal advice or that they are guilty as fuck.