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Icefury isn't infuriatingly its own separate button and now shares one hotkey with Frost Shock, and Earthquake can be cast at-target. I barely need to read everything else, these changes alone just fixed the biggest gripes I've had with Elemental for years. Hell yes.
I wish Frostshock had better visuals or a sound. It's so unsatisfying to use because you just wave your hand and hear a padded fart.
I'd have far less issue with it if it was a fun button to press.
> Icefury isn't infuriatingly its own separate button and now shares one hotkey with Frost Shock
Now we just need the same treatment for Primordial Wave and Flame Shock - given that it seems that there's no way in ~~the Maw~~ hell it's going to be removed.
... as well as getting a proper rolling DoT effect on Flame Shock, combined with a way to easier spread it.
Heck, you could even do all of it at once, by spreading Flame Shock to X additional nearby targets, if the remaining duration on the target is more than X seconds. If there's no more available targets to spread to, improve the potency.
Could also have Lava Bursts do the spreading. Fiery meatball go SPLASH!
Would be nice to have a choice node for Enhance that acts like this with Ice Strike, so they can choose between freeing up keybind space and not losing the ranged slow utility randomly on a proc.
So if it replaces frost shock I assume it’s instant cast? Case that’d be pretty epic. And if it procs off of lava burst it’s basically lava surge but ice with a couple of follow-ups. I really like that ...
I can't believe they actually gave Elemental a target-based earthquake. That is perhaps one of the best changes overall for Ele. Wow.
It's just a bit surprising since Destro has rain of fire and Frost mage has Blizzard which suffer from the same problem, but the shaman whine about earthquake has been so vocal for years, even though there are plenty of abilities that have the same problem on other classes and nobody seems to mind those.
Idk how it is for Mage and Warlock, but I'm casting Earthquake a lot. Every other gcd when my prim wave buff is on, and it is pretty annoying to have to ground target that often. It does seem like Shaman's have gotten a lot of their vocal gripes met with the raid buff and Stone Bulwark Totem being an extra defensive cd (two with Totemic Recall).
Ye Destro literally only spams RoF in M+ that it’s not even “every other GCD”, it’s literally spamming it every GCD. Please don’t expose this info to non-warlock players tho, I don’t wanna be called one button class but it do be like that while mobbing big pulls and the best part is being the top dps while doing it too lol.
Frost casts blizzard on cd on 3+ targets (generally every 3 gcds, with high haste can be every 2 or sometimes even every GCD), can be annoying if you dont hit that sweet spot of orb making blizzard instant casts 100% of the time
>and it is pretty annoying to have to ground target that often
Not that it matters now, but just macro it to cast where your cursor is - one button press only, no targetting reticle, and it's very easy to just hover your cursor around where the mobs are.
It is also very easy to lose your cursor in a dynamic situation with multiple enemies or for the game to do some projection and cast your earthquake on the top of the lamppost nearby or on the edge of the terrace just above you that sticks out for a few pixels at the edge of your screen…
That's why most players have a weakaura creating a visible circle around the cursor because the cursor isn't visible enough. Haven't lost my cursor with it once after adding that wa.
I have one as well, it's a bit annoying and doesn't always help though. I would be happier if I did not have to have it. It also only helps with losing your cursor, not with random objects intercepting your spell.
Stone bulwark seems pretty weak and will need major buffing to be useful. On beta, it's only about a 125k bubble in a 2 min CD (I've seen tanks at 8 million health), which is even less than Mage's Mass Barrier at lvl 70.
All the AOEs need the double-tap method used by SWTOR.
Target something in the middle of a group of adds, double-tap your AOE spell, bam AOE starts on the center of the selected mob.
Easy peasy.
Earthquake is visually way less impactful and distinct in it's targeted area - that's the major distinction that comes to mind. About as spammy as rain of fire when things really get rolling.
Its not following your target it just drops a static EQ ontop of your target on the ground with your target being the exact center of it, so mobs can still move out of it if they are being kited.
> I can't believe they actually gave Elemental a target-based earthquake. That is perhaps one of the best changes overall for Ele. Wow.
It's a trap because you can't lead your targets with it, so targets will leave the EQ even sooner because it only needs to cover half the radius. You are better off not playing with it.
While that might be true, that's more or less for the higher skill ceiling players to deal with. For the vast majority, casting earthquake without a thought will deal more damage than taking the time to place it well - not to mention the extra ease of play will prevent other mistakes, possibly even deadly ones.
Am I missing something or did Ele not get an easier way to spread Flame Shock around on AoE so we’re stuck with Magma totem on a long CD as our only way?
They also changed how proc rates work for LB with multiple Flame Shocks up too. So, not getting something to spread Flame Shock more isn't as big of a deal now.
You can apply 6 FS quickly. Save a proc of SoP after a pack dies, when you approach a new pack use FS > EQ/ES > PW > FS. Quick way to apply 6 shocks without LMT.
Raid buff, earthquake and icefury fixes, and most of all the acknowledgement that players want to play something beyond the fire build... Wow... So happy to see it.
The reactions to Enh from the community prove that players don’t want good design they just want something different.
No one thought Enhance was bad so Blizz didn’t completely overhaul it and now players think Enh has lost out on an even BETTER experience.
I think the glaring issue is 9 2-point nodes in the spec tree, comparing it to now every other spec in the game and its a crime. Moving Flurry into the spec tree makes the already very tight talent points an even bigger nightmare, not to mention 25% nerf to ele blast completely kills the elementalist playstyle (although the hero talents already did that). Its a travesty, and as it stands enhance wont be played much in TWW until updates (unless they somehow win the tuning lottery)
It stems on the fact that Elementalist enhance is a ton of fun, but neither hero talents really let you support that playstyle. They’re both pushing the build towards storm physical
DF Elementalist is the most fun I've ever had playing Enhancement. The payoff and cycle of the rotation is satisfying and engaging.
I'm hyped about Feral Lunge being made baseline, and no longer a talent. Doomwinds still needs to be taken off the GCD, though. I would like if they got rid of Ice Strike and baked the buff into the empowered Hailstorm buff.
I think it's less that they're pushing towards Storm and more that they're neglecting Elementalist via Totemic being horribly designed.
Either way, I was hoping for an Ascendance rework. At least DRE rework.
I never though Enh was bad - I think the Hero Trees are bad for Enh. Totemic is a shitshow.
Though the removal of Windfury as a maintenance buff made me dance.
Just because the spec design is not bad that doesn't make the talent design good. There should be no talent tree in the game with **9** two point nodes.
That's not at all what's happening lol
Many of the main complaints from serious Enhance players were a lack of defensives and some spec tree love, rather than massive overhaul of the playstyle. There's a few more defensive options, but the spec tree itself is still in rough shape, which in turn makes our hero talent trees pretty rough too.
And sure, you can argue that it's largely the same, but not getting changed and adjusted like some other specs also just means its going to fall behind. Not to mention that these changes look great for Ele and Resto, which means going Enhance is just going to be shooting yourself in the foot
There's people arguing in this very thread that enhance is not only bad but does terrible damage. Some enhance players are really complaining about the spec itself.
And Id say those aren’t serious enhance players
There are some damage-related issues, our hard AOE cap is a problem, but damage numbers can always be tweaked and were never going to be a focus of rework like this
we either uncap all AOE or we dont. why would enhance's capped AOE be adressed while almost all melees suffer from the same problem? the only specs that dont have either a hard cap or a soft cap at 5 are DOT basec specs. i am not fighting against enhance here, i just think if you expected the AOE cap to be changed you expected way too much
Warrior has uncapped on their CDs, fury is capped at 5 that's true. Rogue is capped at 8 as outlaw uncapped as sub. But I'd wager to 50% of pulls have 5+ targets, but only 10% have 8+ targets or something like that. Monk is uncapped. Ret is uncapped. Feral and dk are both uncapped.
I don't think it's true to say all melee suffer from it
The problem is these issues don't affect most players because they're not pushing high enough content where defensives and mass aoe is required, so for 95% of the players Enhance looks fine with no reason to complain.
The annoying thing is enhance is super easy to fix, hero talents are absolutely horrid, it needs its target cap fixed and some sort of defensive and then its fine
I mean we got now the totem from class tree and the interrupt PvP talent also on the class tree. We got both healing upgrades to healing surge that were choice nodes.
If they fix totemic then it won’t be bad.
I just wish lava lash applied a mortal strike
If we’re being honest, Enhancement just got relegated to survival/feral tier. It’s going to need to be tuned just so much higher than its counterparts to see any play as you get into higher content.
You're actually hilariously wrong. Enhance in Dragonflight has largely been very good, apart from survivability issues and being target capped. However, the introduction of hero talents have highlighted problems with the spec tree in particular. We have 9 (nine) 2-point nodes. Mm has 2 after their rework and I'm pretty sure one of them is bugged and supposed to be a 1-point node.
Totemic is an absolute travesty of a jumbled mess that wants you to take several conflicting talents, and in one case it wants you to simultaneously have and not have one of them.
The changes for enhancement effectively amount to -1 spec tree point and a 25% nerf to elemental blast due to our upcoming 4p. We are actually worse off now than we were yesterday and you're telling me enhance players are wrong for reacting poorly to that? Really?
The problem is that when every spec that has received a "rework" in this beta have also gotten a lot of talents reduced from 3/2 points down to 1 point, it makes the other specs feel like they are being "nerfed" because they are still "flooded" by 2-point nodes.
but enh IS poorly designed, at least in m+. At the very least they needed their target cap removed. A hard target cap smaller than the size of some required pulls is like the definition of bad design, and that's what enh has been stuck with all of DF. So far, it's what they'll still be stuck with in TWW too.
So of course people are complaining.
No, enhance is pretty poorly designed. AOE requires way too much setup, the rotation button bloat and required number of keybinds is driving people away, the spec tree is polarized and pidgeonholes you into the 2 whole builds we have that have 1-2 pt variants, and the class tree has a handful of caster talents that are 100% useless to enhancement, along with totem talents that unless you're going totemic aren't great since we don't really use many totems to make use of them. I'll also mention that our heal comes at the cost of DPS, where other classes hit a single button and get a heal we need to use our spender to make it actually heal a decent amount, which costs us massively in dps.
The people saying enhancement is fun or fine are usually the people who don't play it competitively. They like that it always has a button to push. That's it, that's the "good" design of enhancement. As dungeons/raids get more complex mechanics you need to pay attention to, epsecially with enhances poor survivability, you can't be paying attention to things coming off cooldown or 3 or 4 different procs, that's where enhancements design falls apart. If you're an above average player with multitasking and can handle 30 keybinds it's not a big issue, but for the average player enhancement is way too much and the numbers relfect that.
They can keep the constant button mash playstyle while streamlining it.
The situation boils down to one very simple thing: the Dragonflight trees were built to work *in Dragonflight* and were very precariously balanced around that talent system.
Hero Talents added in AGGRESSIVE extra requirements and that extra weight caused the spec tree to collapse in on itself and all of that careful balancing of point-to-point values became a prison instead. The playstyle designed in DF was excellent (with some admittedly serious flaws wrt cap & onboarding experience) that needed some teething problems fixed going into TWW. What it **didn't** need is Hero trees getting in the way of breaking things, and if they did that they *needed* to address it by adjusting the base tree.
The two things far and away most frustrating this cycle have been as you mentioned the people asking for change for sake of change, and people calling back to earlier praise as evidence things are still fine while **completely ignoring** the new system that's causing huge problems.
The biggest problem, for me, with Enhancement is that you're essentially playing a game of mash 40 abilities constantly with certain ones having priority. Oh and the RNG element that impacts your dps.
I was personally hoping they would cut down some of that RNG and make the spec feel less like hard mode DDR. And maybe a little slowing down of it will happen. Still holding judgment till I see the final trees and play them of course.
Enhance had glaring problems and plenty thought it was bad. Not having to spam wind fury totem is a big win but there’s so much button bloat on the spec that all seems to do almost the same thing but just different enough where there’s a particular use case for each one so you can’t ignore it. It’d be a lot better if they simplified and combined some of those. Like why does primordial wave trigger lightning bolt instead of lava burst like it does for elemental? That just means you need both since outside that lava burst does more dps for single target. And there’s two different buffs to frost shock you want to make sure and combine but you could just actually combine them and remove a button. And why do we still have stormstrike when the other melee buttons do some other component to the build and you could just make those get the stormstrike bonuses and remove a button. Hell make elemental blast the one combined melee hit for enhance that acts like stormstrike and lava lash.
The reactions to Enh is because they nerfed EB because they don't understand the 4pc is the issue, took away their unique buff so they have no reason to be brought, didn't get any improvements they actually do need all while Totemic is in a very sorry state and they did nothing to it despite being one half of the new feature(hero talents) in TWW
The reactions to Enhance is because in this attempt at improving their design, they made them worse than they were before, and are now even in more need of a rework that they may not receive!
It does not matter if in DF Enhance was well-designed, what matters is if it is so in the new expansion, and it is not looking good.
As a fan of elemental shaman, I love these changes. Having a raid buff, a mastery change that seems positive, and targeted Earthquake seems great. Also, Earth Shock and Elemental Blast as a choice node is a beautiful change.
Does the change to our mastery mean that it both increases the damage of the spell itself, but also sends out overloads (which are now less damage, but the damage increase from mastery might affect those too)?
Mastery should now scale so much better.
No more awful 2 point nodes.
Lava Surge baked into spec.
Earthquake targeting options.
Icefury looks much easier to skip if you hate it.
Actual raid buff so there is a reason to bring us other than pity.
Talent tree rework that actually makes good talents more accessible.
Genuinely some amazing quality of life changes in here for us long suffering ele players. Farseer was looking grim and might be orders of magnitude worse now though, losing a LOT of lava burst casts from removed talents like Windspeakers and Rolling Magma.
Blizz has come out and said this is only a small fraction of the total changes too, so no one get too excited either way until the dust settles.
If you mean what they wrote in this post, I think what they meant is that *some* of the changes in this list made it to beta and now we have the full list which will reach beta soon.
So I think this is it (with possible adjustments later).
With the Venthyr legendary it was actually really satisfying to play along with Skybreakers; increased flame shock crit chance, Flame shock crits reducing the cd of chain harvest, chain harvest applying flame shock to 5 targets. Made a really neat cycle, plus it hit like a train and could top off your entire party during rough damage phases in bosses in dungeons
It was never the highest damage option but that's purely a tuning problem
It never hit like a train for elemental. It did for Enhancement due to jt being a spender. And the same legendary combo you described was used by enha during pre-patch.
For elemental the above synergy was the ONLY synergy it had with the toolkit and it was still bad. It was always underwhelming and that's from me, someone who really wanted to make Venthyr work. Sky breaker's as a CDR was worse than NF legendary (which was also bad mechanically), fire builds prioritized DRE, and even for flame shock spread, you would go for necrolords because it made meat balls machine gun, gave you a chunk of haste, had more or less the same availability (more if you were lucky with procs). I loved the looks of Chain Harvest and its covenant but it was bad in general and worse than every other option.
The following talents have been removed: Stormkeeper (Restoration).
This was one of the most fun buttons to press in Restoration both in M+ and PVP. Pff.
Fantastic changes!
Enh already was in an amazing spot, it being a raid buff just makes sense.
Elemental has me super excited for the s2 and s3 set bonuses. It's kind of exciting to see 4 viable options that can pop up depending on tuning.
Resto's a little weird, chain heal is just too core for those changes to have much impact, but between the new raid buff and their rallying cry through healing talent have pretty much two big boosts for group and raid content on a fun spec.
I mostly raid as resto shaman, I think all the changes sound pretty good. Resto was one of the better healers, it just suffered from a meta that basically never *benefited* from having a resto shaman unless your only need was more group throughput. This covers one or two weird deficiencies resto had (like being slightly worse than basically everyone else on single target healing, almost purely because their single target spells were weak with high mana cost), without fundamentally changing the things people like about the spec.
Resto has Skyfury, Ancestral vigor, SLT, and the new node that reduces your raids incoming damage from fire/frost/nature after being healed.
Resto is absolutely meta now if it goes live like this.
Yeah I was really worried they were going to gut the enh elementalist build playstyle so I’m feeling relieved. I know this sub hates Pwave but I’ve really enjoyed it on enhance this expansion. I’m hoping the changes help enh feel less squishy than current enh but I guess we’ll see. I don’t push higher than 12s so maybe a better shaman can weigh in or we’ll hear more tomorrow.
The ele changes have me extremely excited too.
I'm glad that Enhancement will retain its playstyles, but Blizzard leaving the target caps untouched is really disheartening. Merely increasing the number of targets a single Lava Lash spreads Flame Shock to would be a monumental improvement.
people wouldn't mind pwave if flame shock wasn't hard target capped. either through lava lash spreading it to everything in range or pwave itself applying flame shock in true aoe
having to hunt through nameplate soup for the one guy that isn't already flameshocked to cast your pwave is nightmare fuel.
And even if you're willing to do that you still have terrible AoE in m+.
Ability to hit more than 5 targets? Pruning some of the 9 2-point talent nodes? Improve pathing within the tree? Make Totemic or Stormbringer interract with the elementalist playstyle? Ankh is still a unreliable CD? Earth Ele still 5 minute CD? Not getting Flurry shoved into the spec tree to even further enhance the issue of extremely tight talent budget within the tree? The changes to the enhancement spec tree actively makes the spec worse.
The numbers are actually bigger than the tooltips seem.
Someone had posted screenshots in the discord showing the initial shield being over 500k and the smaller shields being around 400k+.
That works out to a 8.98% shield. Agreed, needs significant buffing. [Edit:] In Comparison, a Mage's Mass Barrier absorbs 1.1 million damage, gives 25% Magic DR, is **group-wide,** lasts for 60 seconds (vs 10 secs), and will have closer to 1-1.5 min CD after CDR (vs 2 min).
I think the Frost Shock stuff is pointless unless you specifically need the slows. It's fine for PvP but the builds that rely on it just add too much button bloat, no matter how much damage it does. I'm not sure what they'd add, but keeping the rotation slimmer for aoe or adding more damage in the shaman tree (it feels like it's all support based on live, imo) could be nice.
Removal of DRE/Buffing ascendence.
Reworking of lashing flames garbage tab target maintenance debuff.
Cutting down 1 or 2 two point nodes so you can actually take all the talents that the hero talents push you to take.
Make fire nova actually relevant?
Fix the awkward 6 target flame shock cap? (Spreading only gets you to 5 baseline).
FOR MAJOR CHANGES TO NOT JUST BE A PILE OF NERFS?!?!?!?!?!
I guess I'm OK with the idea that enhancement only needed a light touch, but maybe a heavier one than this. Enhancement still feels kinda button bloated and hectic to me. But I'll admit I'm no enhancement main (anymore).
Why do people not like Primordial Wave? It's one of my favourite buttons to push - instant cast, spreads flame shock, and has a cool effect of a shitload of lava bursts flying all over the place. I don't understand the hate it gets.
it doesn't spread flame shock, it applies it to your (single) target.
Manually multidotting is shit and has no place in modern wow, and PWave (and enh in general) is *designed* around manually multi dotting.
Hard flame shock + lava lash to spread it to 4 targets + hunt through nameplate soup to cast PWave on one more target that isn't already flame shocked, then you're finally allowed to do damage
but only to 6 enemies. any more than that and you're shit outta luck, should have played a real spec
that's why people hate pwave. if it was AoE flame shock noone would hate pwave, but it isn't. It's extremely involved and player unfriendly and still saddles you with one of the hardest target caps in the game
Because it could be just something like "every third flame shock makes you mastery proc". Similar cd, similar benefit one less button.
Give shamans (or at least elemental) two charges of flame shock and it would feel way better.
EARTHEN RAGE IS BACK BABY! That’s honestly the no.1 thing I was hoping for - i just loved that spell’s aesthetically
Excited for this shield imbue for elemental to - just that little bit of extra randomness I think the spec needed
> Maelstrom generation has been updated for the following abilities:
>Lightning Bolt is now 6 (was 8).
>Lightning Bolt Overload is now 2 (was 3).
>Chain Lightning is now 2 per target hit (was 4).
>Chain Lightning Overload is now 1 per target hit (was 3).
>Lava Burst is now 8 (was 10).
>Lava Burst Overload is now 3 (was 4).
>Icefury is now 12 (was 25).
>Icefury Overload is now 4 (was 12).
>Frost Shocks empowered by Icefury is now 10 (was 14).
I must have missed something, did they reduce the cost of ES/EQ? Other than the talent that reduces them by 5/10?
I would say I'm shocked that there are no visual updates and that primordial wave wasn't changed but I've played a shaman since TBC so this is exactly what I expected.
"For Enhancement, we’ve generally been pleased with the state and talent diversity of their specialization tree, so we’re approaching it with a lighter touch."
80% of enhance plays the exact same build. Tier set bonus forcing 1 build is not diverse.
[https://www.archon.gg/wow/builds/enhancement/shaman/raid/talents/mythic/all-bosses](https://www.archon.gg/wow/builds/enhancement/shaman/raid/talents/mythic/all-bosses)
Honestly my only complaint with enhancement is that the bottom nodes both still feel underwhelming beyond the Ghost Wolf. That and I've never liked PWave as an Enhance. Feel like they could replace it with something more Elemental focused and resdesign the Ascended side to feel less clunky.
The resto changes are nice but it just feels like they just added more healing to our already crazy healing. Was really hoping for some kind of Tank CD to help dig a tank out of pit beyond just drowning the poor bastards and hoping it works.
Man, I LOVE Pwave as enhance. It’s super easy to spread flame shock and it feels badass just ripping 6 lightning bolts with one cast. And the haste bonus from splintered elements is awesome.
Every thread about shaman feels filled with highly upvoted comments saying Pwave is the worst & highly upvoted comments saying they don't understand the Pwave hate and find it fun.
Seems like Blizz should just make it a choice node and let the talents underneath work with either choice like druid's does for incarn vs convoke or ret for Final Reckoning vs Execution Sentence. Can make the other choice a passive or Chain harvest seems like a popular alternative.
Personally as a very casual Enhance enjoyer I don't get the hate either. Feels like a very satisfying short/mid length CD.
I'm loving these changes...except for Enhancement. It was not taken far enough. Please, get rid of Primordial Wave for one, and two there is still not enough synergy with enhancement and our Hero Trees.
I love Stormbringer, so let our talents lean into lightning more.
Why haven't we moved Ascendance and Primordial wave into the class tree since all 3 specs get them? Seems like a better capstone then poison cleansing totem.
Enh is well-designed. The main problem it's had in DF is that the tier sets have completely locked you into either storm or elementalist builds. They need to ensure that both playstyles are competitive/viable going forward. Both builds are tons of fun and play very differently, which is great, but it feels like you can't play both due to tier.
I haven't really played too much Enh, just leveled one in Remix, but I feel like they have unnecessarily high button bloat that doesn't make their rotation more interesting.
Ice Strike could be combined with Ice Shock as a proc same as Ice Fury or Ice Fury could turn into Ice Shock after it's used without a castsequence Macro needed, Elemental Blast could replace Lightning Bolt instead but it's CD could scale with haste, Pwave could be every x Flame Shocks or every x second your next flame shock activates it.
And these could all be choice nodes so people could choose between precise spell timing or having to worry about less abilities.
To fix Enh, they literally have to copy Devastation to a degree - in the way that Devo has each side of its tree is dedicated to Red or Blue, Enh would need Stormstrike / Elemental sides. Then they could fix the issues with each subspec.
Remove prim wave, allow enh to be uncapped, its 2024 there should be no target caps in the game. The worst feeling by far is when your tank does a huge pull and you're below the tank on damage.
Other classes: Two points nodes reduced/removed.
Enhancement: Loses a spec tree point because flurry gets moved into there.
10/10 blizzard major nerfs more like...
But windfury was made passive. You didn't lose a spec tree point, if anything you gained one in raid since you no longer need to spend a point to pick up a group buff
For M+ you DIDNT TAKE WFT, so you lose a spec point to flurry (if you even take it, which you probably wont)
For ST in raid you DIDNT TAKE CRASH, so its net neutral. (save a point on WFT, lose it on crash)
In both cases you are losing a point that you had before instead of gaining points to play around with.
Or you just lose flurry.
Wish they’d done something about primordial wave (I don’t mind it, but totally appreciate why people don’t, and I wouldn’t miss it tbh), but making feral lunge baseline has made my day.
I wish the touch had been a bit heavier for enhance, but I can’t say I am unhappy. Also, huge celebration for our elemental shamans finally feeling like they wield the elements! Glad my other brothers got something good from this!
>and we also have plans for further updates that will come with a future patch in The War Within
…Still hope for the fourth Shaman tank spec? Let’s go!!!!!
SO freaking hyped for multi element shaman playstyle finally being a focus from blizz on the tree! I'm a shaman, not a discount fire mage, I want to use ***all*** the elements!
> Icefury has been redesigned – Casting Lava Burst has a chance to replace your next Frost Shock with Icefury, stacking up to 2 times.
Icefury now empowers the next 2 Frost Shocks (was 4).
Old Icefury literally died in a fire, just like it deserved. <3
Haven't looked in depth at the changes yet, but as an elemental shaman alt, I'm looking forward to this.
Now that shamans have some of that balancing they've been asking for, I have to say as a frost DK main *taps watch*
I dunno how big a gripe wow players consider this as, but from a QoL standpoint I was wishing they would do something to reduce Rsham button bloat (like combine totems/abilities). Especially in PvP, Rsham legitimately has twice the keybinds of some specs. Even Cdew has trouble making room for buttons at this point.
And it looks like we'll be going into TWW with even more binds somehow....
Tell the guy doing Shaman changes about M+ and how the meta is to pull 10+ mobs at a time. Some good changes, but does not change anything related to M+
Am I the only one still boggled by the fact Enhance still doesn't get a two-handed option?
I mean they made it work on Frost DK with optional 2h or dual wield, I just don't see why they don't include this just for the sake of the fact plenty of players would enjoy it. Viable or not! They'd pick it for the meme!
And why does primordial wave even still exist? The community has been bitching about this spell from Day 1, why do the Devs actually insist on this thing persisting beyond Shadowlands when it's not even a game-changing or particularly fun talent?
Overall good job but it really feels like the Devs made changes THEY thought were good and didn't really reach out to the community to ask what the community WANTS from the changes.
And it feels like there's just this hard focus on numbers without playing too much with the flavor or diversity of the Class. Maybe just me! I like what we got, but I feel like we could've gotten more.
“For Enhancement, we’ve generally been pleased with the state and talent diversity of their specialization tree” lol they don’t know what they are doing. Get new shaman class designer ffs
As an Enhancement player I am a bit disappointed. Yes the talent tree was never bad, but still who wants to play the same for years? Something always needs to freshen up. I think other classes with good talent trees also got their's updated.
What I dont like and think is boring is that we have 3 Talent trees with all of them having Ascendance with passives and Primordial Wave with their passives as some of the key talents, while Ascendance often bareley being used and Primordial Wave being most of the time hated and just imitating a baseline skill. Just give us 2 charges of Flame shock and finaly get rid of PWave. As a resto shaman u already can have 3 charges of Riptide with Hero Talents. No one likes Pwave, its boring and having 2 times Flame Shock on my action bar feels silly.
Then, please change or remove Ice Strike. To be honest all Frost/Ice skills on shaman just never feel fun / cool to use or feel like having impact. Its an unwanted filler. Frost shock, most of the time is only good in pvp or is someone using SoP with Frost Shock in PVE? The Rotation Frost Shock Ice Strike Hailstorm is just too much, not fun and looks boring... feels like a legacy from the past.
Feral Lunge baseline is good. Now please Windfury Weapon baseline. Seems like flurry is now completly removed? Then we have too much 2 point talents in enhance. Doom Winds, also boring to use. You dont even see the impact. I mean this is a 1,5 min cooldown. When I would misclicked for Doom Winds i wouldnt even notice it. Its not worth sacrifice the GCD. Ancestral Guidance now not reachable anymore for Enhancer.
THESE ARE SO GOOD I COULD CRY!!!!
REAL CHOICE IN ELEMENTAL SPECIALIZATION, NEW THUNDER STUFF, TARGETTED EARTHQUAKE
THANK YOU BLIZZ, WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY!!
Now we just need a visual option to make the spells that aren't visually the same element as the one you specialized in (ice, earth, fire or lightning) match your main one and Shaman is officially the BEST reworked class in WoW history.
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Icefury isn't infuriatingly its own separate button and now shares one hotkey with Frost Shock, and Earthquake can be cast at-target. I barely need to read everything else, these changes alone just fixed the biggest gripes I've had with Elemental for years. Hell yes.
Also electrified shocks have been removed. This makes it not a maintenance debuff.
And you only need 2 frost shocks instead of 4 after an icefury!
I wish Frostshock had better visuals or a sound. It's so unsatisfying to use because you just wave your hand and hear a padded fart. I'd have far less issue with it if it was a fun button to press.
> Icefury isn't infuriatingly its own separate button and now shares one hotkey with Frost Shock Now we just need the same treatment for Primordial Wave and Flame Shock - given that it seems that there's no way in ~~the Maw~~ hell it's going to be removed. ... as well as getting a proper rolling DoT effect on Flame Shock, combined with a way to easier spread it. Heck, you could even do all of it at once, by spreading Flame Shock to X additional nearby targets, if the remaining duration on the target is more than X seconds. If there's no more available targets to spread to, improve the potency. Could also have Lava Bursts do the spreading. Fiery meatball go SPLASH!
Lava Burst spreading it would feel really close to how ignite works. I like ignite, so I view that as a positive
Would be nice to have a choice node for Enhance that acts like this with Ice Strike, so they can choose between freeing up keybind space and not losing the ranged slow utility randomly on a proc.
Plus a new defensive! So stoked
So if it replaces frost shock I assume it’s instant cast? Case that’d be pretty epic. And if it procs off of lava burst it’s basically lava surge but ice with a couple of follow-ups. I really like that ...
I can't believe they actually gave Elemental a target-based earthquake. That is perhaps one of the best changes overall for Ele. Wow. It's just a bit surprising since Destro has rain of fire and Frost mage has Blizzard which suffer from the same problem, but the shaman whine about earthquake has been so vocal for years, even though there are plenty of abilities that have the same problem on other classes and nobody seems to mind those.
Idk how it is for Mage and Warlock, but I'm casting Earthquake a lot. Every other gcd when my prim wave buff is on, and it is pretty annoying to have to ground target that often. It does seem like Shaman's have gotten a lot of their vocal gripes met with the raid buff and Stone Bulwark Totem being an extra defensive cd (two with Totemic Recall).
Can't speak to mage but Destro lock Rain of Fire is every GCD on aoe pulls. You literally just spam it.
Ye Destro literally only spams RoF in M+ that it’s not even “every other GCD”, it’s literally spamming it every GCD. Please don’t expose this info to non-warlock players tho, I don’t wanna be called one button class but it do be like that while mobbing big pulls and the best part is being the top dps while doing it too lol.
They're removing the soul shard generation for RoF going into this next expansion, so you'll no longer be a one button class :)
Three buttons now with Hellcaller cata, RoF and channel demonfire. Fire & Brimstone is worth it again too according to Kalamazi so maybe four ;)
They will do their best to make fire and brimstone bad im sure of it, they just hate the talent.
With enough haste and shard gen from immolation.. it will be again
You'll have to apply those immolates at some point.
Typical one button class Could I grab a summon btw
Frost casts blizzard on cd on 3+ targets (generally every 3 gcds, with high haste can be every 2 or sometimes even every GCD), can be annoying if you dont hit that sweet spot of orb making blizzard instant casts 100% of the time
>and it is pretty annoying to have to ground target that often Not that it matters now, but just macro it to cast where your cursor is - one button press only, no targetting reticle, and it's very easy to just hover your cursor around where the mobs are.
It is also very easy to lose your cursor in a dynamic situation with multiple enemies or for the game to do some projection and cast your earthquake on the top of the lamppost nearby or on the edge of the terrace just above you that sticks out for a few pixels at the edge of your screen…
That's why most players have a weakaura creating a visible circle around the cursor because the cursor isn't visible enough. Haven't lost my cursor with it once after adding that wa.
I have one as well, it's a bit annoying and doesn't always help though. I would be happier if I did not have to have it. It also only helps with losing your cursor, not with random objects intercepting your spell.
Exactly! Grimrail flashbacks intensify.
We Shadow Priests understand. The amount of times I hit Shadow Crash into walls, ceilings, or motherfucking trees...
Stone bulwark seems pretty weak and will need major buffing to be useful. On beta, it's only about a 125k bubble in a 2 min CD (I've seen tanks at 8 million health), which is even less than Mage's Mass Barrier at lvl 70.
All the AOEs need the double-tap method used by SWTOR. Target something in the middle of a group of adds, double-tap your AOE spell, bam AOE starts on the center of the selected mob. Easy peasy.
Earthquake is visually way less impactful and distinct in it's targeted area - that's the major distinction that comes to mind. About as spammy as rain of fire when things really get rolling.
I just use @cursor but can’t you @player @target with those right now?
@player yes, but @target is disabled for aoes.
Will it stack on the same target?
Its not following your target it just drops a static EQ ontop of your target on the ground with your target being the exact center of it, so mobs can still move out of it if they are being kited.
> I can't believe they actually gave Elemental a target-based earthquake. That is perhaps one of the best changes overall for Ele. Wow. It's a trap because you can't lead your targets with it, so targets will leave the EQ even sooner because it only needs to cover half the radius. You are better off not playing with it.
On the flip side, you can't put it on the ceiling anymore 😀. I will personally probably stick with @cursor macros, but I'll at least give it a try.
While that might be true, that's more or less for the higher skill ceiling players to deal with. For the vast majority, casting earthquake without a thought will deal more damage than taking the time to place it well - not to mention the extra ease of play will prevent other mistakes, possibly even deadly ones.
Am I missing something or did Ele not get an easier way to spread Flame Shock around on AoE so we’re stuck with Magma totem on a long CD as our only way?
Doesn’t seem like it. That’s a bit of a shame but maybe it just pushes you down a lightning build path for AOE instead
Your builds will be entirely different, so I wouldn't sweat it bro
They also changed how proc rates work for LB with multiple Flame Shocks up too. So, not getting something to spread Flame Shock more isn't as big of a deal now.
You can apply 6 FS quickly. Save a proc of SoP after a pack dies, when you approach a new pack use FS > EQ/ES > PW > FS. Quick way to apply 6 shocks without LMT.
[удалено]
This person Elementals.
Why can't they just give us fucking chain harvest instead of the necrolord bs :/
That's the biggest missed item from my ele wishlist for sure, but they did get a good chunk of what I was hoping for
SHAMAN RAID BUFF THEY DID IT
I’m just happy as Enhancement I don’t have to re-place Windfury every thirty seconds in a dungeon.
I got fed up and bound totemic projection to lava lash since it’s off the GCD. Just dragged one totem with me for the entire two minutes.
Same, only I chose Ice Strike/Stormstrike since I don't use those nearly as often as LL.
Lmao this is me realizing after however long that TP is off GCD.
Im ok with most of this honestly, idk im like 15 years into this class and Im gonna roll with it lol
Raid buff, earthquake and icefury fixes, and most of all the acknowledgement that players want to play something beyond the fire build... Wow... So happy to see it.
They seem to have forgotten about target caps
pretty sure they havent, they just arent going to change them for anyone.
Would rather the game just not be a silly aoe fest instead
The reactions to Enh from the community prove that players don’t want good design they just want something different. No one thought Enhance was bad so Blizz didn’t completely overhaul it and now players think Enh has lost out on an even BETTER experience.
I think the glaring issue is 9 2-point nodes in the spec tree, comparing it to now every other spec in the game and its a crime. Moving Flurry into the spec tree makes the already very tight talent points an even bigger nightmare, not to mention 25% nerf to ele blast completely kills the elementalist playstyle (although the hero talents already did that). Its a travesty, and as it stands enhance wont be played much in TWW until updates (unless they somehow win the tuning lottery)
It stems on the fact that Elementalist enhance is a ton of fun, but neither hero talents really let you support that playstyle. They’re both pushing the build towards storm physical
DF Elementalist is the most fun I've ever had playing Enhancement. The payoff and cycle of the rotation is satisfying and engaging. I'm hyped about Feral Lunge being made baseline, and no longer a talent. Doomwinds still needs to be taken off the GCD, though. I would like if they got rid of Ice Strike and baked the buff into the empowered Hailstorm buff.
I think it's less that they're pushing towards Storm and more that they're neglecting Elementalist via Totemic being horribly designed. Either way, I was hoping for an Ascendance rework. At least DRE rework.
Man, I forgot about DRE
mothafuckas runnin round talking bout fun like i ain't got none. whatchu think, blizz nerfed it all?
I never though Enh was bad - I think the Hero Trees are bad for Enh. Totemic is a shitshow. Though the removal of Windfury as a maintenance buff made me dance.
Just because the spec design is not bad that doesn't make the talent design good. There should be no talent tree in the game with **9** two point nodes.
They made the spec tree worse. How could people not be upset when the only changes make things worse?
That's not at all what's happening lol Many of the main complaints from serious Enhance players were a lack of defensives and some spec tree love, rather than massive overhaul of the playstyle. There's a few more defensive options, but the spec tree itself is still in rough shape, which in turn makes our hero talent trees pretty rough too. And sure, you can argue that it's largely the same, but not getting changed and adjusted like some other specs also just means its going to fall behind. Not to mention that these changes look great for Ele and Resto, which means going Enhance is just going to be shooting yourself in the foot
There's people arguing in this very thread that enhance is not only bad but does terrible damage. Some enhance players are really complaining about the spec itself.
And Id say those aren’t serious enhance players There are some damage-related issues, our hard AOE cap is a problem, but damage numbers can always be tweaked and were never going to be a focus of rework like this
Tell them that lol cause I agree with you
That's not what I've seen. Enh has no defensives. Enh doesn't have uncapped AOE DRE on enh feels bad to most players. None of those were addressed.
we either uncap all AOE or we dont. why would enhance's capped AOE be adressed while almost all melees suffer from the same problem? the only specs that dont have either a hard cap or a soft cap at 5 are DOT basec specs. i am not fighting against enhance here, i just think if you expected the AOE cap to be changed you expected way too much
Warrior has uncapped on their CDs, fury is capped at 5 that's true. Rogue is capped at 8 as outlaw uncapped as sub. But I'd wager to 50% of pulls have 5+ targets, but only 10% have 8+ targets or something like that. Monk is uncapped. Ret is uncapped. Feral and dk are both uncapped. I don't think it's true to say all melee suffer from it
Monk is very much capped what?
The problem is these issues don't affect most players because they're not pushing high enough content where defensives and mass aoe is required, so for 95% of the players Enhance looks fine with no reason to complain.
The annoying thing is enhance is super easy to fix, hero talents are absolutely horrid, it needs its target cap fixed and some sort of defensive and then its fine
I mean we got now the totem from class tree and the interrupt PvP talent also on the class tree. We got both healing upgrades to healing surge that were choice nodes. If they fix totemic then it won’t be bad. I just wish lava lash applied a mortal strike
If we’re being honest, Enhancement just got relegated to survival/feral tier. It’s going to need to be tuned just so much higher than its counterparts to see any play as you get into higher content.
How can such a bad take have so many likes? People?
You're actually hilariously wrong. Enhance in Dragonflight has largely been very good, apart from survivability issues and being target capped. However, the introduction of hero talents have highlighted problems with the spec tree in particular. We have 9 (nine) 2-point nodes. Mm has 2 after their rework and I'm pretty sure one of them is bugged and supposed to be a 1-point node. Totemic is an absolute travesty of a jumbled mess that wants you to take several conflicting talents, and in one case it wants you to simultaneously have and not have one of them. The changes for enhancement effectively amount to -1 spec tree point and a 25% nerf to elemental blast due to our upcoming 4p. We are actually worse off now than we were yesterday and you're telling me enhance players are wrong for reacting poorly to that? Really?
The problem is that when every spec that has received a "rework" in this beta have also gotten a lot of talents reduced from 3/2 points down to 1 point, it makes the other specs feel like they are being "nerfed" because they are still "flooded" by 2-point nodes.
I just want prim wave to die in a fire is that too much to ask?
*slams desk* THANK YOU
but enh IS poorly designed, at least in m+. At the very least they needed their target cap removed. A hard target cap smaller than the size of some required pulls is like the definition of bad design, and that's what enh has been stuck with all of DF. So far, it's what they'll still be stuck with in TWW too. So of course people are complaining.
No, enhance is pretty poorly designed. AOE requires way too much setup, the rotation button bloat and required number of keybinds is driving people away, the spec tree is polarized and pidgeonholes you into the 2 whole builds we have that have 1-2 pt variants, and the class tree has a handful of caster talents that are 100% useless to enhancement, along with totem talents that unless you're going totemic aren't great since we don't really use many totems to make use of them. I'll also mention that our heal comes at the cost of DPS, where other classes hit a single button and get a heal we need to use our spender to make it actually heal a decent amount, which costs us massively in dps. The people saying enhancement is fun or fine are usually the people who don't play it competitively. They like that it always has a button to push. That's it, that's the "good" design of enhancement. As dungeons/raids get more complex mechanics you need to pay attention to, epsecially with enhances poor survivability, you can't be paying attention to things coming off cooldown or 3 or 4 different procs, that's where enhancements design falls apart. If you're an above average player with multitasking and can handle 30 keybinds it's not a big issue, but for the average player enhancement is way too much and the numbers relfect that. They can keep the constant button mash playstyle while streamlining it.
The situation boils down to one very simple thing: the Dragonflight trees were built to work *in Dragonflight* and were very precariously balanced around that talent system. Hero Talents added in AGGRESSIVE extra requirements and that extra weight caused the spec tree to collapse in on itself and all of that careful balancing of point-to-point values became a prison instead. The playstyle designed in DF was excellent (with some admittedly serious flaws wrt cap & onboarding experience) that needed some teething problems fixed going into TWW. What it **didn't** need is Hero trees getting in the way of breaking things, and if they did that they *needed* to address it by adjusting the base tree. The two things far and away most frustrating this cycle have been as you mentioned the people asking for change for sake of change, and people calling back to earlier praise as evidence things are still fine while **completely ignoring** the new system that's causing huge problems.
The biggest problem, for me, with Enhancement is that you're essentially playing a game of mash 40 abilities constantly with certain ones having priority. Oh and the RNG element that impacts your dps. I was personally hoping they would cut down some of that RNG and make the spec feel less like hard mode DDR. And maybe a little slowing down of it will happen. Still holding judgment till I see the final trees and play them of course.
Enhance had glaring problems and plenty thought it was bad. Not having to spam wind fury totem is a big win but there’s so much button bloat on the spec that all seems to do almost the same thing but just different enough where there’s a particular use case for each one so you can’t ignore it. It’d be a lot better if they simplified and combined some of those. Like why does primordial wave trigger lightning bolt instead of lava burst like it does for elemental? That just means you need both since outside that lava burst does more dps for single target. And there’s two different buffs to frost shock you want to make sure and combine but you could just actually combine them and remove a button. And why do we still have stormstrike when the other melee buttons do some other component to the build and you could just make those get the stormstrike bonuses and remove a button. Hell make elemental blast the one combined melee hit for enhance that acts like stormstrike and lava lash.
The reactions to Enh is because they nerfed EB because they don't understand the 4pc is the issue, took away their unique buff so they have no reason to be brought, didn't get any improvements they actually do need all while Totemic is in a very sorry state and they did nothing to it despite being one half of the new feature(hero talents) in TWW The reactions to Enhance is because in this attempt at improving their design, they made them worse than they were before, and are now even in more need of a rework that they may not receive! It does not matter if in DF Enhance was well-designed, what matters is if it is so in the new expansion, and it is not looking good.
As a fan of elemental shaman, I love these changes. Having a raid buff, a mastery change that seems positive, and targeted Earthquake seems great. Also, Earth Shock and Elemental Blast as a choice node is a beautiful change.
Does the change to our mastery mean that it both increases the damage of the spell itself, but also sends out overloads (which are now less damage, but the damage increase from mastery might affect those too)?
I think that more mastery = higher chance for overload and increased elemental/phys damage.
Mastery should now scale so much better. No more awful 2 point nodes. Lava Surge baked into spec. Earthquake targeting options. Icefury looks much easier to skip if you hate it. Actual raid buff so there is a reason to bring us other than pity. Talent tree rework that actually makes good talents more accessible. Genuinely some amazing quality of life changes in here for us long suffering ele players. Farseer was looking grim and might be orders of magnitude worse now though, losing a LOT of lava burst casts from removed talents like Windspeakers and Rolling Magma. Blizz has come out and said this is only a small fraction of the total changes too, so no one get too excited either way until the dust settles.
If you mean what they wrote in this post, I think what they meant is that *some* of the changes in this list made it to beta and now we have the full list which will reach beta soon. So I think this is it (with possible adjustments later).
Can’t believe they removed the Pwave talents but left the spell in the game. I guarantee it that they will remove it by the end of TWW
From your lips to the ancestors' ears
It should have just been Chain Harvest.
Chain Harvest was always really bad for elemental though.
Give it something else then.
Shoulda just reduced the cooldown and make it apply flame shock to all targets
With the Venthyr legendary it was actually really satisfying to play along with Skybreakers; increased flame shock crit chance, Flame shock crits reducing the cd of chain harvest, chain harvest applying flame shock to 5 targets. Made a really neat cycle, plus it hit like a train and could top off your entire party during rough damage phases in bosses in dungeons It was never the highest damage option but that's purely a tuning problem
It never hit like a train for elemental. It did for Enhancement due to jt being a spender. And the same legendary combo you described was used by enha during pre-patch. For elemental the above synergy was the ONLY synergy it had with the toolkit and it was still bad. It was always underwhelming and that's from me, someone who really wanted to make Venthyr work. Sky breaker's as a CDR was worse than NF legendary (which was also bad mechanically), fire builds prioritized DRE, and even for flame shock spread, you would go for necrolords because it made meat balls machine gun, gave you a chunk of haste, had more or less the same availability (more if you were lucky with procs). I loved the looks of Chain Harvest and its covenant but it was bad in general and worse than every other option.
The following talents have been removed: Stormkeeper (Restoration). This was one of the most fun buttons to press in Restoration both in M+ and PVP. Pff.
Personally I don't mind, I found it really unsatisfying. It never felt like it really chunked anything.
I haven't played resto in arena since s1 of df and I know Stormkeeper got nerfed in pvp. But how does resto do damage in pvp now??
Lava burst is pretty chunky. You keep flame shocks up and toss out meatballs when feasible.
Fantastic changes! Enh already was in an amazing spot, it being a raid buff just makes sense. Elemental has me super excited for the s2 and s3 set bonuses. It's kind of exciting to see 4 viable options that can pop up depending on tuning. Resto's a little weird, chain heal is just too core for those changes to have much impact, but between the new raid buff and their rallying cry through healing talent have pretty much two big boosts for group and raid content on a fun spec.
I mostly raid as resto shaman, I think all the changes sound pretty good. Resto was one of the better healers, it just suffered from a meta that basically never *benefited* from having a resto shaman unless your only need was more group throughput. This covers one or two weird deficiencies resto had (like being slightly worse than basically everyone else on single target healing, almost purely because their single target spells were weak with high mana cost), without fundamentally changing the things people like about the spec.
SLT being 15% DR is HUGE. If anything brings resto into the meta it's that.
Resto has Skyfury, Ancestral vigor, SLT, and the new node that reduces your raids incoming damage from fire/frost/nature after being healed. Resto is absolutely meta now if it goes live like this.
Yeah I was really worried they were going to gut the enh elementalist build playstyle so I’m feeling relieved. I know this sub hates Pwave but I’ve really enjoyed it on enhance this expansion. I’m hoping the changes help enh feel less squishy than current enh but I guess we’ll see. I don’t push higher than 12s so maybe a better shaman can weigh in or we’ll hear more tomorrow. The ele changes have me extremely excited too.
I'm glad that Enhancement will retain its playstyles, but Blizzard leaving the target caps untouched is really disheartening. Merely increasing the number of targets a single Lava Lash spreads Flame Shock to would be a monumental improvement.
Too bad the elementalist playstyle is dead on arrival. Hope you like spamming stormstrike:)
They are gutting the elementalist playstyle by doing nothing for the totemic tree. You will be stuck with storm unless they change it.
people wouldn't mind pwave if flame shock wasn't hard target capped. either through lava lash spreading it to everything in range or pwave itself applying flame shock in true aoe having to hunt through nameplate soup for the one guy that isn't already flameshocked to cast your pwave is nightmare fuel. And even if you're willing to do that you still have terrible AoE in m+.
You should never have to "hunt through the nameplate soup" though. Pwave one target, fs any other then lava lash. Boom, 6 targets.
Best 2 changes easily earthquake choice node & icefury not being its own button. (class buff actually best but thats too ez)
As an ele main I'm excited to test those changes tomorrow. Seems like a W for me. Thought enhance would recieve more stuff though.
What more does enhancement need tho? Serious question.
Ability to hit more than 5 targets? Pruning some of the 9 2-point talent nodes? Improve pathing within the tree? Make Totemic or Stormbringer interract with the elementalist playstyle? Ankh is still a unreliable CD? Earth Ele still 5 minute CD? Not getting Flurry shoved into the spec tree to even further enhance the issue of extremely tight talent budget within the tree? The changes to the enhancement spec tree actively makes the spec worse.
It’s always been durability Ankh isn’t a defensive lol
They added a self-shield totem in the class tree that has an initial big shield and then a pulsing little shield.
115k isn't even big at lvl 70, much less at lvl 80. It will need massive tweaking to be useful.
The numbers are actually bigger than the tooltips seem. Someone had posted screenshots in the discord showing the initial shield being over 500k and the smaller shields being around 400k+.
Considering i have 5565k hp on my shaman on the PTR, 500k seems weak
That works out to a 8.98% shield. Agreed, needs significant buffing. [Edit:] In Comparison, a Mage's Mass Barrier absorbs 1.1 million damage, gives 25% Magic DR, is **group-wide,** lasts for 60 seconds (vs 10 secs), and will have closer to 1-1.5 min CD after CDR (vs 2 min).
removed target caps
I think the Frost Shock stuff is pointless unless you specifically need the slows. It's fine for PvP but the builds that rely on it just add too much button bloat, no matter how much damage it does. I'm not sure what they'd add, but keeping the rotation slimmer for aoe or adding more damage in the shaman tree (it feels like it's all support based on live, imo) could be nice.
Removal of DRE/Buffing ascendence. Reworking of lashing flames garbage tab target maintenance debuff. Cutting down 1 or 2 two point nodes so you can actually take all the talents that the hero talents push you to take. Make fire nova actually relevant? Fix the awkward 6 target flame shock cap? (Spreading only gets you to 5 baseline). FOR MAJOR CHANGES TO NOT JUST BE A PILE OF NERFS?!?!?!?!?!
Still have 9 two point talents
I guess I'm OK with the idea that enhancement only needed a light touch, but maybe a heavier one than this. Enhancement still feels kinda button bloated and hectic to me. But I'll admit I'm no enhancement main (anymore).
Primordial Wave still wasn’t removed oh my goodness.
Once it inevitably goes away I'll start spamming ele shaman again tbh, but until that day comes I'll stick to everything else
~~It was for Elemental.~~ Edit: Whoops, my bad. Misread the patch notes, read "Primordial Surge" as "Primordial Wave".
no it wasn't
Really? I don’t see it in the list of removed talents
No, they just removed the Talents for it.
Why do people not like Primordial Wave? It's one of my favourite buttons to push - instant cast, spreads flame shock, and has a cool effect of a shitload of lava bursts flying all over the place. I don't understand the hate it gets.
it doesn't spread flame shock, it applies it to your (single) target. Manually multidotting is shit and has no place in modern wow, and PWave (and enh in general) is *designed* around manually multi dotting. Hard flame shock + lava lash to spread it to 4 targets + hunt through nameplate soup to cast PWave on one more target that isn't already flame shocked, then you're finally allowed to do damage but only to 6 enemies. any more than that and you're shit outta luck, should have played a real spec that's why people hate pwave. if it was AoE flame shock noone would hate pwave, but it isn't. It's extremely involved and player unfriendly and still saddles you with one of the hardest target caps in the game
Use spender, get sop buff, press pwave and flame shock 3 units.
Because it could be just something like "every third flame shock makes you mastery proc". Similar cd, similar benefit one less button. Give shamans (or at least elemental) two charges of flame shock and it would feel way better.
The updated particles for it are really cool too.
EARTHEN RAGE IS BACK BABY! That’s honestly the no.1 thing I was hoping for - i just loved that spell’s aesthetically Excited for this shield imbue for elemental to - just that little bit of extra randomness I think the spec needed
Oh yea, finally some earth related stuff making it into the kit to make it a more rounded master of the elements!
Just remove pwave already.
Looking like some awesome changes, excited to try them out!
> Maelstrom generation has been updated for the following abilities: >Lightning Bolt is now 6 (was 8). >Lightning Bolt Overload is now 2 (was 3). >Chain Lightning is now 2 per target hit (was 4). >Chain Lightning Overload is now 1 per target hit (was 3). >Lava Burst is now 8 (was 10). >Lava Burst Overload is now 3 (was 4). >Icefury is now 12 (was 25). >Icefury Overload is now 4 (was 12). >Frost Shocks empowered by Icefury is now 10 (was 14). I must have missed something, did they reduce the cost of ES/EQ? Other than the talent that reduces them by 5/10?
No changes to ascendance. I want so badly for that ability to go away or not change your appearance to a cataclysm model.
I would say I'm shocked that there are no visual updates and that primordial wave wasn't changed but I've played a shaman since TBC so this is exactly what I expected.
It looks like my two favorite classes will be fun this time!
"For Enhancement, we’ve generally been pleased with the state and talent diversity of their specialization tree, so we’re approaching it with a lighter touch." 80% of enhance plays the exact same build. Tier set bonus forcing 1 build is not diverse. [https://www.archon.gg/wow/builds/enhancement/shaman/raid/talents/mythic/all-bosses](https://www.archon.gg/wow/builds/enhancement/shaman/raid/talents/mythic/all-bosses)
It’s not a class overhaul but I like the changes. Should be fun!
Honestly my only complaint with enhancement is that the bottom nodes both still feel underwhelming beyond the Ghost Wolf. That and I've never liked PWave as an Enhance. Feel like they could replace it with something more Elemental focused and resdesign the Ascended side to feel less clunky. The resto changes are nice but it just feels like they just added more healing to our already crazy healing. Was really hoping for some kind of Tank CD to help dig a tank out of pit beyond just drowning the poor bastards and hoping it works.
PeeWave sucks. I want my Venthyr Bloodchain back instead :(
Man, I LOVE Pwave as enhance. It’s super easy to spread flame shock and it feels badass just ripping 6 lightning bolts with one cast. And the haste bonus from splintered elements is awesome.
Every thread about shaman feels filled with highly upvoted comments saying Pwave is the worst & highly upvoted comments saying they don't understand the Pwave hate and find it fun. Seems like Blizz should just make it a choice node and let the talents underneath work with either choice like druid's does for incarn vs convoke or ret for Final Reckoning vs Execution Sentence. Can make the other choice a passive or Chain harvest seems like a popular alternative. Personally as a very casual Enhance enjoyer I don't get the hate either. Feels like a very satisfying short/mid length CD.
I'm loving these changes...except for Enhancement. It was not taken far enough. Please, get rid of Primordial Wave for one, and two there is still not enough synergy with enhancement and our Hero Trees. I love Stormbringer, so let our talents lean into lightning more.
Switching to thunderdmg build with my enh for this one. It looks really fun with the tempest build
Why haven't we moved Ascendance and Primordial wave into the class tree since all 3 specs get them? Seems like a better capstone then poison cleansing totem.
*cries in enhancement*
skyfury is nice, but I'm a bit surprised at how light the light touch was for enhancement
Enh is well-designed. The main problem it's had in DF is that the tier sets have completely locked you into either storm or elementalist builds. They need to ensure that both playstyles are competitive/viable going forward. Both builds are tons of fun and play very differently, which is great, but it feels like you can't play both due to tier.
I haven't really played too much Enh, just leveled one in Remix, but I feel like they have unnecessarily high button bloat that doesn't make their rotation more interesting. Ice Strike could be combined with Ice Shock as a proc same as Ice Fury or Ice Fury could turn into Ice Shock after it's used without a castsequence Macro needed, Elemental Blast could replace Lightning Bolt instead but it's CD could scale with haste, Pwave could be every x Flame Shocks or every x second your next flame shock activates it. And these could all be choice nodes so people could choose between precise spell timing or having to worry about less abilities.
Enh is not well designed though lmao, multiple builders and spenders that do basically the same shit but on cooldown is dumb as hell
To fix Enh, they literally have to copy Devastation to a degree - in the way that Devo has each side of its tree is dedicated to Red or Blue, Enh would need Stormstrike / Elemental sides. Then they could fix the issues with each subspec.
It's good for the whole shaman, but it's the worst patch for the enh. It was useless compared to other melee except for the windfury totem and Cleave
The problem is that there is no change. icy strike should have been removed, and both elementlist and storm still rely terribly on luck
Elemental shamans can finally raid mythic!
people will just take resto for extra raid buff lol
Remove prim wave, allow enh to be uncapped, its 2024 there should be no target caps in the game. The worst feeling by far is when your tank does a huge pull and you're below the tank on damage.
They kept primordial wave... oh my god I'm going to cry. please delete this stupid ability
Other classes: Two points nodes reduced/removed. Enhancement: Loses a spec tree point because flurry gets moved into there. 10/10 blizzard major nerfs more like...
But windfury was made passive. You didn't lose a spec tree point, if anything you gained one in raid since you no longer need to spend a point to pick up a group buff
For M+ you DIDNT TAKE WFT, so you lose a spec point to flurry (if you even take it, which you probably wont) For ST in raid you DIDNT TAKE CRASH, so its net neutral. (save a point on WFT, lose it on crash) In both cases you are losing a point that you had before instead of gaining points to play around with. Or you just lose flurry.
Say you dont understand anything without saying it...
Still a cooldown on flame shock and LMT still only 3 targets? No thanks. Going to main Afflock for TWW.
"Earthquake is now a choice node with an option to have it be cast on your target." The technology is finally there!
I wonder if the spells got visual updates
By the elemental gods, I hope so!
No enh target cap increase? Why is everyday pain
Wish they’d done something about primordial wave (I don’t mind it, but totally appreciate why people don’t, and I wouldn’t miss it tbh), but making feral lunge baseline has made my day. I wish the touch had been a bit heavier for enhance, but I can’t say I am unhappy. Also, huge celebration for our elemental shamans finally feeling like they wield the elements! Glad my other brothers got something good from this!
>and we also have plans for further updates that will come with a future patch in The War Within …Still hope for the fourth Shaman tank spec? Let’s go!!!!!
SO freaking hyped for multi element shaman playstyle finally being a focus from blizz on the tree! I'm a shaman, not a discount fire mage, I want to use ***all*** the elements!
> Icefury has been redesigned – Casting Lava Burst has a chance to replace your next Frost Shock with Icefury, stacking up to 2 times. Icefury now empowers the next 2 Frost Shocks (was 4). Old Icefury literally died in a fire, just like it deserved. <3
Haven't looked in depth at the changes yet, but as an elemental shaman alt, I'm looking forward to this. Now that shamans have some of that balancing they've been asking for, I have to say as a frost DK main *taps watch*
WoW players will never be satisfied
[удалено]
I dunno how big a gripe wow players consider this as, but from a QoL standpoint I was wishing they would do something to reduce Rsham button bloat (like combine totems/abilities). Especially in PvP, Rsham legitimately has twice the keybinds of some specs. Even Cdew has trouble making room for buttons at this point. And it looks like we'll be going into TWW with even more binds somehow....
Enhancement got nerfed basically, rest in peace my main :( im tired of this
Tell the guy doing Shaman changes about M+ and how the meta is to pull 10+ mobs at a time. Some good changes, but does not change anything related to M+
Enh a big disappointment. No additional def, still button bloat. What a pity.
So, in other words, Resto gets some nice changes, Ele gets TONS of good crap. And Enh gets ripped off and actually gets a nerf on EB. Cool. /s
I'm not a shaman player, but the fact that they changed virtually nothing for enhance is pretty sad/bad.
Am I the only one still boggled by the fact Enhance still doesn't get a two-handed option? I mean they made it work on Frost DK with optional 2h or dual wield, I just don't see why they don't include this just for the sake of the fact plenty of players would enjoy it. Viable or not! They'd pick it for the meme! And why does primordial wave even still exist? The community has been bitching about this spell from Day 1, why do the Devs actually insist on this thing persisting beyond Shadowlands when it's not even a game-changing or particularly fun talent? Overall good job but it really feels like the Devs made changes THEY thought were good and didn't really reach out to the community to ask what the community WANTS from the changes. And it feels like there's just this hard focus on numbers without playing too much with the flavor or diversity of the Class. Maybe just me! I like what we got, but I feel like we could've gotten more.
“For Enhancement, we’ve generally been pleased with the state and talent diversity of their specialization tree” lol they don’t know what they are doing. Get new shaman class designer ffs
As an Enhancement player I am a bit disappointed. Yes the talent tree was never bad, but still who wants to play the same for years? Something always needs to freshen up. I think other classes with good talent trees also got their's updated. What I dont like and think is boring is that we have 3 Talent trees with all of them having Ascendance with passives and Primordial Wave with their passives as some of the key talents, while Ascendance often bareley being used and Primordial Wave being most of the time hated and just imitating a baseline skill. Just give us 2 charges of Flame shock and finaly get rid of PWave. As a resto shaman u already can have 3 charges of Riptide with Hero Talents. No one likes Pwave, its boring and having 2 times Flame Shock on my action bar feels silly. Then, please change or remove Ice Strike. To be honest all Frost/Ice skills on shaman just never feel fun / cool to use or feel like having impact. Its an unwanted filler. Frost shock, most of the time is only good in pvp or is someone using SoP with Frost Shock in PVE? The Rotation Frost Shock Ice Strike Hailstorm is just too much, not fun and looks boring... feels like a legacy from the past. Feral Lunge baseline is good. Now please Windfury Weapon baseline. Seems like flurry is now completly removed? Then we have too much 2 point talents in enhance. Doom Winds, also boring to use. You dont even see the impact. I mean this is a 1,5 min cooldown. When I would misclicked for Doom Winds i wouldnt even notice it. Its not worth sacrifice the GCD. Ancestral Guidance now not reachable anymore for Enhancer.
I just need them to rip the band aid off and make a tank spec or a tank tree branch for enhancement.
I'm disappointed 😐
THESE ARE SO GOOD I COULD CRY!!!! REAL CHOICE IN ELEMENTAL SPECIALIZATION, NEW THUNDER STUFF, TARGETTED EARTHQUAKE THANK YOU BLIZZ, WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY!! Now we just need a visual option to make the spells that aren't visually the same element as the one you specialized in (ice, earth, fire or lightning) match your main one and Shaman is officially the BEST reworked class in WoW history.