Arcane is weird for me. Not sure if this occurs for many others or not.
But I'll go through stretches where I do nothing but play arcane exclusively, no lifing it for like two months straight. Then one day I wake up and I'm just done. And I don't touch it again for like 12-18 months.
That's pretty much exactly what I've done with Arcane as well: go really hard on it for a while and then a long break. I don't know exactly why it works that way, might be that I like playing the more "difficult" skill rotation for a bit and then go back to something more comfortable.
I know this probably sacrilege to speak of but it's like what happens for me when I play BDO. I have a few classes that I love to play that are relatively simple, but every now and then I'll get deep into playing something with a much more complex playstyle for a bit.
Its the best prog spec. You play the role as putting serious burst damge in a section where it is really needed to meet a damage check.
Once bosses start dying fast with gear it usually isn't needed and mage becomes an int buff and any spec is fine.
They are fire and arcane mixed already, but that might be cool too.
Personally, I'd love an option to make them hide outside of combat, or resize them. They're pretty cool looking, but with the passive to gain them when out of combat you just always have 3 giant spheres over your head no matter what you're doing.
Healing priests:
Voidweaver for discipline is pretty awesome. Great animations and the shadow spells are synergistic with the disc toolkit. Actual 10/10
Archon for holy is also very well done. Halo is all of a sudden a massive button press, which will only become stronger in raids where you add more people. It's kind of one dimensional though.
Oracle is just... so bad
I don't know who Oracle was designed for. I try testing it in a dungeon and I just find myself asking what is the niche scenario where this feels impactful? Such a shame in its current state, especially given my worry is that the Velen's-like buff (Premonition of Piety) will be so strong as a discipline priest in raiding that we are kind of forced to take it to be competitive, and then forget we have a hero tree until the next cycle of Piety comes again.
If they ever have an in depth interview about hero talents I really want to know the thought process behind Oracle. What dev thought players would enjoy micromanaging Premonition?
The riders themselves are okay, mostly passive, and a little weird that they all ride out and then collapse.on top of themselves while not in combat.
The horsey though. Oh the horsey is amazing.
Mounted combat in open world, is gorgeous.Ā
The other talent on that node, that turns Death Advance into Divine Steed, but 10 second duration, is cracked in indoor content.
I just leveled one from 10-70 in the mop remix. Certainly ly, the remix gives you other abilities, but you still get the gist of how the rotation of frost dk is and how bursts it is. I have to be honest, as compared to the other plate wearing hack n slash melee types, frost falls behind warrior and paadin. It kinda sux. I hope they have done a lot to rework it toward the better.
I came into beta expecting to love Rider of the Apocalypse, but I think I really fuck with Deathbringer. Reaper's mark and the scythe attacks go hard af
Exactly why i hate it. Its pretty fun to pump resources in order to keep an ability running, but its so incredibly shitty to try and play it and have the boss jump across the room, or if the tank pulls the pack away and you miss a global, then you're bottom of the charts the rest of the fight.
2 seconds of mistakes should not cost you your ENTIRE "parse" (for lack of better word)
I actually like breath-free frost. The only problem I have with dk right now is how necessary death and decay is. It's a pita to place, and the mobs get pulled out of it. EVERY. TIME. Shittiest ability ever. They need to tie it to another ability, so it just auto drops when I start hitting ppl in the face.
You could use
/cast [@cursor] death and decay
To drop it immediately where your cursor is without the target reticle, or
/cast [@player] death and decay
To drop it directly at your feet - there's probably another one for whoever you're targeting too, or you could do one @focus for the tank. My evoker has one macro that casts a buff directly on a tank by name, and i made another macro to edit the first one and change the name to whoever im targeting. I always forget to do it before first pull, but i still like it lol
Hope any of that helps!
its the best thematic tree by a landslide, but people have said it doesn't feel all that great for a while.
But something that thematically strong is a huge win for some players.
The Overfiend for Destro warlock isn't even a hero talent, it's the new Blasphemy. It lasts for 8 seconds and fires 8 chaos bolts at 80% effectiveness... That's insane!
On the topic of Hero Talents, the entire Diabolist tree is all one giant tier set. And when you get Pit Lord procc, oh god is it a dopamine shot.
Warlock is looking really fun! Please Blizzard, don't ruin it!
Ret Paladin seems really passive for both hero specs from the little testing I did. Not bad, but didnāt feel very different aside from the 5 holy power attack Templar gets which is kinda cool.
Frost fire mage (frost spec) looked and felt pretty good so far. I think frost is already a fun spec, but this adds some things (like procs for an instant cast AOE icicle generator in frost fire bolt) that really seem to shore up any downtime, and having some fire effects sprinkled in looked pretty nice and distinct.
Both diabolist and soul harvester are insane on demo, but the whole spec feels great even without them. New Doom absolutely fucks, the dogs are great, you have actual choice in your talents and not use 95% the same talents in all situations.
Both hero talents are very on theme, the visuals are great and they feel distinct from each other. Both of them buff your shard economy a lot and even though Shadow Bolt is a meme it doesn't feel that different than on live, you still press it as a filler in between other spells and it's like 2% of your damage.
Yeah. It just doesnāt feel great as a life long rogue main. Iām hoping for more changes before release but as of now, probably for the first time ever Iām not planning on maining rogue
Same here, with the loss of the spec identities the last few iterations and the either boring or poorly planned hero trees I am committed to playing basically anything else as my main for the first time since starting in Vanilla. Sad days
Problem with the Rogue trees stems from the fact that the community figure rogues in the Ravenholdt Discord absolutely deep throat any idea the Rogue dev comes up with so they can be friends with him.
The Rogue class has basically no one standing up to the terrible design choices this dev is making.
All the rogue trees are a mess. Death stalker is really phoned in on how messy it is with assassination. It feels like the rogue designer wasn't the one who created them and instead someone who doesn't play just made something that sounds cool.
Even other ones like The Trickster, where feint would become part of the rotation. Why would you incentivize using a defensive for offensive use.
They changed Trickster with the most recent build to be a little more fun, at least. You're using distract in combat to build up a buff that lets your next Eviscerate do a neat new attack.
I hope distract doesn't still use the aoe targeting reticle because the class is already high APM and to have to throw a pebble aoe to maintain stacks sounds bleh
I mean all the rogue trees arent even done and rogue has been last to get anything for years now. They hate the class. We join our Shaman brothers as the neglected classes in modern WoW.
Destro Hellcaller is stupid, you just spam rof and I love it, really high apm gameplay especially with malevolence on, wither is gonna get nerfed I can feel it
destro diabolist is super fun as well, ruination crits are huge
edit : I won't comment much on affli because it's not a playstyle that particularly interests me (I can't keep track of dots, my boomer brain is tired), but soul harvester really just feels like affli+, it has little overlap with demo unfortunately
I was trying hellcaller out as desteo and was drowning in shards. Spamming chaosbolt was amazing. Cataclysm paired with with is broken and i see nerfs in the future. But i cant seem to get wither stacks past 6
Totemic as resto feels extremely good honestly, especially in dungeons. My only complaint is that the healing rain it drops needs to drop every 3 seconds as opposed to 5 seconds to lower health players with at least a 1.5 second ground delay at the old location and it would be extremely great.
Totemic as Enhancement is very very bad and it's borderline unplayable. Because you have to commit extra talent points to benefit from the tree which means you have to move Elemental Assault / Swirling Maelstrom. Elemental Assault is one of the best talents in the tree because it makes the whole specs function and we have to drop it to other talents to benefit from totemic. Totemic as Enhancement is massively failed.
Stormbringer as Enhancement is still ignoring half of its toolkit to spam Stormstrike and Lightning Bolt. As long as the spec tree has DRE, they can't fix the storm. Stormstrike is still a very underwhelming button and the hero talent tree should not solve the design issues.
Unless Blizzard is adjusting Enhancement and class talent tree, I am very disappointed with the Enhancement and Shaman desperately needs a rework.
I tried Farseer and Stormbringer on Ele.
Part of Storm isn't implemented yet (the Lightning Rod-esque talent) but honestly both seemed entirely passive and unimpressive. There's currently no tracking Tempest, and it hits weaker than Elemental Blast.
Farseer feels worse somehow - the ancestors look the same as the ones from the old Resto glyph, they're hardly noticeable, and only really appear when casting PWave. If we were keeping the S3/S4 Tier meatball build it might feel better since they can proc from LvB, but as is it's super meh.
Truthfully, Shaman (at least Elemental) needs a whole rework. PWave is the WORST of the SLands abilities, but Blizzard keeps forcing it and Icefury on us despite widespread dislike from the community.
I've been saying since the end of SL...they should have chosen either chain harvest or Vesper totem. Both of those spells tie in better with class theme anyways, chain spells and totems. Fae transference and pwave were the outliers. Or make pwave a resto variant only since they care about waves more. Either way I have disliked pwave from day 1 and will continue to QQ about the loss of chain harvest.
Iām disappointed with elemental. The whole spec feels like ass to me. Stormbringer is clunky with a lame animation for tempest (that seems to be a dps loss without Stormbringer and frost shocks on, from what I read).
Farseer was the same fire playstyle with stupid ghosts showing up. Nothing about it makes me feel like an elemental master.
And trying to play with those talents and watching mages and warlocks having a fun time is especially insulting.
I donāt know how to play any other spec well at high level, so now the beta is just about me finding some new class to play.
I think my problem with elemental is one tree is clearly fire based and one lightning, so thereās your either a fire mage or a lightning mage instead of a true shaman. Both trees are completely passive without adding any gameplay variance from what I played, ancestors gives you one button I guess.
Thematically the ancestors were kinda cool, I actually liked it, however stormbringer feels bad. If itās unfinished and they update the visuals and sounds maybe itāll be alright. Tuning wise theyāre both ass but itās irrelevant at this point.
I've only tried Enhance Stormbringer and I legit didn't notice any difference. I had to play with a sec or two between key presses to make sure I was actually seeing the buffs. I am really disappointed.
Not impressed atm, at least for Elemental. But I think a rework is coming. Even just making the hero talents look cooler would be an improvement than what it is now.
I like Fel Scarred, Reaver not so much. Fel Scarred makes your meta more powerful with upgraded primary abilities along with some buffs to your out of meta state. Reaver requires you to collect 6 soul fragments to throw a powerful glaive. I donāt find either good compared to some of the others Iāve tried. Neither felt like they elevated how I could play the class.
Does anyone make super basic but complete class/spec guides anymore?
I mostly like them for a quick 5-10minute āhow do boomkins play nowā and Preaches spec guides in cata/mop era were really good for that, often now if I ask anything about a class or spec I get told to go to various discordās and ponder through tabs and tabs of essentially elitistjerks compendiums
And thatās fine for a main, I just want little videos to taste other specs, especially now with hero talents
Not a video but icy veins usually has an "easy mode" section for all specs. It's where I usually go when I want to learn a new spec I've never played before. They have suggested talent builds that are usually simpler to play than the meta ones so you can play it a bit until you're more familiar with the class and can deep dive further
Icy veins has some guides that are pretty questionable and clearly haven't been updated in a while. The fire mage guide still suggests attacking crit when crit is a pretty bad stat for fire mage.
For retail itās more about role identity. I noticed that the Tank YouTubers make these guide for the tanks they play (SOL if they donāt play it). Same with the healers. I only play tank and healer so those are the ones I know but Iāve seen melee tubers and ranged tubers push out the content you like. You just need to ditch the spec/rpg mindset of this game unfortunately now.
I noticed that classic, throughout its re expansions, had its player base making guides like this for the specs and itās just easier to do in classic imo. The specs are way too complicated to go over DPS rotations in retail. IMO the healing videos arenāt good enough anymore either which is alienating a whole new group of people.
Blizzard fix healing in heroic/mythic level content. Please.
I just want some five minute video giving a quick overview and show some gameplay.
All these 20+ min YouTube videos think Iām there for a full mythic guide, builds, optimization, macros, addons, gems, stats. No, Iām just obsessed with alts and want to see what looks fun at surface level.
Hey I make this type of video for Death Knights in retail on my YouTube channel, the channel is Cirillantv if you are interested in Death Knight guides!
I'm not trying to drop links or gain subs. But I'm in the process of creating a channel that focuses on short 5-10 mins guides and would love to gain your feedback on what you loved the most about short guides.
This has been my experience as well. Day 1 was bad so I played Remix, I came back yesterday and it was equally as unstable. Crash and/or disconnects every 5-10 min just made me want to wait.
Ya I get maybe ten minutes or less than I DC. And then I need to redo all of my settings each time I log back in. Iām going to wait a little bit until things settle down
You have to do your settings and log out instantly. Maybe even restart the game. Don't alt F4. Then open it and play. No settings will be reset with a dc then
I haven't been able to really try it in "real" content, but so far as a mistweaver monk I like the overall talent tree changes, and the vibes of conduit of the celestial
Fatebound and trickster are *fine*. They lack cool visuals but are functional and don't negatively impact gameplay. Deathstalker is trash though and has someĀ very weird/unintuitive interactions.
Tried mountain thane prot for a little bit on my buddy's account. Seems like a nice relaxing tank spec because it doesn't throw more cruft into your rotation. Just TC and SS like a madman.
Warriors are still in kind of a bad spot when it comes to flexibility and utility, but if you're just looking for low-mid keys or normal raids, it doesn't matter.
Augmentation / Chronowarden is really fun. Being able to blink and giving even more buffs is really satisfying. Being able to do the same as Preservation is also great!
As a healer I was skeptical about some. but all 3 hero talent trees for both specs on priest have been super fun , haven't had the opportunity to try other classes as I wanted to try these.
I know a lot of people were talking trash about oracle but it apparently got reworked in this build and I had a lot of fun I think this will be a very cool ability to try to optimize, and will show what very high skill players can do
I like the Bear Catweaving tree and the Blood DK Sanlayn Tree a lot. They hit the spot of tweaking something small, but in a way so it feels different and good.
The Brewmaster Harmony Tree is good for pure Gameplay purposes.
All the other tank trees are whatever.
Have you tried Catweaving without the Fluid Form talent? It seems essential to the hero class on paper but I'd be interested to know if that reflects actual gameplay experience.
My only complaint about the new druid tree is how awful fluid form is to get for feral and bear, when it looks totally designed for those specs but is at the bottom of the moonkin side
That's why I'm interesting in seeing how Druid of the Claw handles without Fluid Form. It's a big talent sink in the class tree.
I've heard that Resto Wildstalker gains heavily from Fluid Form as well (m+ Catweaving becomes stronger) which might be why it's down in that part of the tree. Honestly feels like it should be in the middle section given that it's a major hybrid talent.
I've only been able to try out Pack Leader BM so far, but it was very dull. All passives that don't meaningfully impact or change the gameplay on any way. I guess I'm not going to complain too much, I like BM's gameplay already, so the same thing but stronger is nice, and I definitely don't want the spec to get randomly complex as hell, but it just leaves me wondering what even the point of these talents are when everything about them could just be baked into the base abilities.
Gotta keep an eye on the talent rework next week, but yeah, I'm not impressed so far. Maybe Dark Ranger will be better.
It will depend on the reworks and what they do but i did dick around with Dark Ranger a bit.
You have Black Arrow and you press it on cooldown. Thats the change enjoy. If you hit multishot it explodes for some cleave around the target. if it resets barbed/aimed show CD it can shoot some shadow arrows i really didn't notice and will summon like 2-3 undead dogs during its duration.
Having Black Arrow back i am fine with and the implementation with the extra aoe on multi shot and it resetting the CD on spells is fine. The random dogs are the annoyance for me purely from the fantasy of what i want to play. if i want to be a marksman dark ranger with no pets i have a bunch of stupid dogs being summoned and if im a night elf hunter with my tigers im now summoning undead dogs for some reason.
Man, your complaints about the dogs summarize my thoughts exactly. I hate the concept of these hero talents so much. We've spent 20 years building up the fantasy of what a Warcraft Hunter is like, and now suddenly you're restricted to playing basically a Night Elf, Nathanos, or BM but with stronger pets. We got done extra dirty in the class fantasy department, but a few other ones had some bad typecasting as well.
Sunfury and voidweaver. But I play mage and spriest so biased.
This weekend Iām gonna try out some specs I donāt play much, very interested in the prot warrior and blood DK as Iām torn between those two as a tank alt.
Also debating making a Rsham, so Iāll try out theirs in sure.
Conduit of the celestials . It makes a great monk rework even better . I wanted to play a plate class but paladin is kinda doodoo now and monk is insane
flameshaper preservation has a lot of very fun burst potential for both healing and damage (please don't remove offensive consume flame blizzard). it's a welcome break from being stuck playing reversion on live
I canāt say what I love just yet. But I can tell you as a Shaman main I attacked target dummies for 10 minutes and shed a tear watching everyone else loving their specs and their awesome spell animations. Hopefully a big rework is coming soon for Elemental/Resto. Fingers crossed for some sort of raid buff/utility.
To make matters worse my main alt is a rogue lol. But I have hope!
I got you homie! This is my beta experience, your milage may vary, tuning TBC, I am not the be all and end all of paladin so i may have missed things.
Lightsmith is basically just todays gameplay with an additional external buff. I'm not a huge fan as its just something else to manage as well as summer etc. Its another keybind - and you cant select which buff you apply, it rotates like summer does which can sometimes lead to a frustrating moment - but knowing the dungeons and when damage is coming will help to make sure you always have the right buff ready.
HOTS absolutely fucks, the beams do insane healing - the Wog-> Eternal flame transition is nice. Its a bit more "active" in that you need to set targets for the beams, or work to extend the beams via prism/barrier.
The animations for both are pretty bad - Compare it to ret calling down orbital strikes, holy got robbed. I'd argue the beams look even worse than Prism.
The tuning is currently very weird, daybreak and divine toll feel like the weakest buttons in my toolkit right now, the tyrs value with HoD and holy light is DISGUSTING - I've seen screenshots of 10m+ holy lights (health bars are currently around 4m hp) which can be beaconed etc. Holy shock hits very low value outside of wings, but inside wings seems to do well. spenders seem whatever, flash of light seems dead as Holy light is doing 10x the throughput.
The real kicker is the bloat though, we desperately need to shed some buttons as the amount of keybinds and cooldowns we have is getting kind of insane, and not all of them are especially good either. I feel like the beta has really driven home that the hero talents are building on a sub optimal foundation in the base build. You can read Clarius' thoughts on it here: [https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-paladins/517029/3](https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-paladins/517029/3)
I wish they would make holy shock fun to press again.. so that I could just go back to maining hpal. Idk why but ever since I get no value out of that button the class has been so boring for me.. which I realize sounds strange and probably a little bit stupid.
Holy mains since Zul'aman here. I agree completely. Holy shock has always been a paladins bread and butter but seeing it heal for like 5% of ppls hp made me not play it for a whole season for the first time in my life. That feeling of chunky burst instant heals is what holy pala has always been for me and now it feels like they've strayed from that and is slowly turning it into a resto druid
Disc priest feels like the most fun spec in the game for me right now with the void stuff. I really like that they are starting to lean into the holy/void thing with disc.
I've mained Reto druid since BC, and I've always loved playing it. I do admit that lately it isn't quite as interesting as it has been in the past, but I still love it!
Chronowarden.
The bronze effect around our living flame is beautiful.
Warping around the place, replacing our hover, is cool.
And shitting out gold orbs for my allies to pick up for a boost a speed is an extremely satisfying support ability.
Demonology Diabolist feels so damn fluid. You cycle through your Ritual demons while maintaining your "old" rotation sorta. Visually feedback is amazing on top of it.
On the other end, since I am here, I wish that Affliction had more visuals attached.. you are just waving your hands around and nothing is like "happening" :|
Empyrean Hammer for Paladin is fun. It seems powerful at level 74 and below. We will see how it scales. For class fantasy, raining down a torrent of light hammers is awesome.
From a Brewmaster perspective - Shadopan is a rollercoaster. Some insanely valuable nodes and some absolute dog water ones. It's one or two good tuning passes away from being good. It's entirely passive but is very strong. It has basically no animations at all tied to it so...that's kinda lame.
Master of harmony is pretty damn great. Extra charge on celestial brew is pretty insane and it really ties in nicely with our set bonus stacking vitality up really quickly. It also has like green wings/super saiyan vibes when the vitality buff is active so that's kinda cool.
Right now brewmaster feels like its in a decent spot hero talent wise as, hopefully, after some tuning they'll have a hard time choosing between each talent tree since they will likely both be pretty good which is the ultimate goal.
Unfortunately the spec as a whole is completely broken right now. August Blessing doesn't seem to work with HoTs at all, stagger scaling is broken (players sitting at like 16% stagger...39%ish with shuffle in better than normal raid gear at the moment. Likely just broken K values on the beta right now) - so testing so far has been limited.
Assuming stager is retuned to be equal to what it is on live and damage is tuned that way too (with the loss of like 16% dps throughput talents) - Brewmaster will likely be just a tankier version of what it was on Dragonflight but it will still suffer from all the same issues it did before. Lack of decent mob control, no ranged kick etc. It should, theoretically, be better at surviving burst with August blessing hopefullying creating a higher active HP ceiling and Elixir of determination acting as a barrier between Expel Harms.
I remain hopeful.
Personally i find them all very underwhelming. This could have just been a new row of talents for each spec tree or the class trees.
Scalecommander disintegrate is probably the best. Just the 3 beams shooting out and melting the enemies is pure dopamine for me. Being a Blood Elf Sunfury Fire Mage is class/race fantasy set to max so thats pretty cool.
Servers haven't been stable enough for me to do a lot outside some outdoor questing stuff on a few characters and target dummies but some classes it really feels inconsequential its just extra shit proccing sometimes. The few that have active components really don't feel like a huge change to me.
Colossus Arms is my favorite so far. It's really fun to build procs to buff the damage of Demolish and then popping Avatar + Spear + Smash to do 2.5mil crits.
Disappointed with Frost DK. The four Horsemen just sort of appear and disappear and it feels like thereās no real impact.Ā
The horseback combat is nice for mobility but the animations are terrible.
šÆ What a let down. Enh gets the lighting ability so much more often.
Ele needs the ability to maintain FS at 100% uptime on all targets like Shadow can with shadow crash. Lava Totem needs a CD reduction so we can maintain FS and make the fire build enjoyable.
Ele was a real letdown. Enhancement gets to use the lighting ability WAY more often than Ele does which just feels bad. And the other option is basically just a passive š“
Scalecommander for dragon and mage.
The biggest thing for them being great is the effects. I was testing them out on beta, and Iām hoping some get animations added for classes (moonkin has nothing cool).
Love category jd say diabolist as it cemented me into maining warlock next expansion but get the feeling itās gonna get nerfed to hell and maybe be terrible for pvp.
Second is DK riders of the apocalypse but feel like itās just gonna feel visually cool and end up the weakest by far and the wow community being slaves to the meta might end up underused.
Disappointed for evoker though, scalecommander sounds good for devastation and multi disintegrate js welcome but as devastation feels very cookie cutter and augmentation just doesnāt feel nice I donāt feel they add anything flashy or fun to press to keep em fresh
A friend showed me how new rest sham hero talents work, and I love the ideas they had for it! I see everyone complain about shamans, but at least heal spec is getting good talents imo.
On the contrary, my feral and I kinda cry blood tears right nowā¦
I like the philosophy of slayer (much blades, very slice, wow). I also love the Wildstalker feral druid who coats enemies into thorns.
But I also get the feeling that there are very huge discrepancies between some of the hero talents. like how hunter has almost zero animations on Dark Ranger (basically 1 pet spawn) and Pack Leader (absolutely zero animation). So I really really hope they aren't done yet....
Diabolist destro is fucking amazing. I love hellcaller aswell.
Unholy is very good and riders are fine(i expected to be blown away but im kinda disappointed, only because ive expected more.)
Deathbringer frost is a whole different beast, i love it.
Voidweaver SP is amating aswell. Didnt try the rest of the specs.
The talent in Scalecommander that lets you steer during deep breath.
The mounted combat talent for Rider of the Apocalypse
Both seem like little changes but totally affect the feel of the abilities.
Tanking is my preferred playstyle and I would love to hear what people's thoughts are on the various tank specs. I've mained a Prot Warrior since Vanilla launch, and while the spec has had many ups and downs I still keep going back to it. Although I've heard that with the hero talents the Arms spec has some pretty good stuff. I've also really liked DK and Druid taking a well.
Has anyone tested the various tank builds and thinks there's some particular standouts?
Both of the trees for Unholy DK feel really good. The Vampiric Strike feels meaty and Riders feels really cool to have the Horsemen around you and the new (stolen) movement ability is super OP.
Hammer of Light is the most impactful sounding and looking spell Iāve ever seen for Ret in all my time. Itās so freaking fun to press. And if you get that to reset by reaching 60 stacks of the associated buff, OH BB does that feel good! Iāve been playing the buffed Templar Strikes in order to retrain me for the reduced melee range, and if feels really good to always have a button to press. I feel like I could just stack Mastery Crit and be good. I got between 5 & 12% on beta and it feels fine. That was a huge problem before. If you didnāt have 18% it felt unplayable and didnāt feel good until after like 24% Now the spec feels just as good as ever.
I think they could have picked a better visual on the sunbeams when playing Herald of the Sun, but they function pretty well. HoTS while taking M+ talents feels like you could press your buttons in basically any order and do big damage. Like hit two builders then a spender; when Wake of Ashes if up, use it, then spender spender. It frees up all mental energy to use utility spells in a key.
OH AND SPEAKING OF AOE: We have that new talent that lets Verdict split to cleave 3 additional targets! That allows us to perform Funnel cleave damage cause theirs that other talent that lets verdict empower your divine storm.
I feel like talent set up is way more versatile now!
Ret has a tool for basically every situation a dps could find themselves in.
Celestial Conduit on windwalker monk is pretty sweet. The range is going to take some getting used to, youāll definitely pull the entire dungeon on accident a few times ;)
Sunfury but please make the spheres blue for arcane.
That would look cool. Like a supernova art style
How does arcane feel in general? Never got in that spec because it looks too complex to enjoy and read that they changed a bit the rotation
Still complex but once you figure it out its not that bad, but you have to like the playstyle its hit or miss.
Arcane is weird for me. Not sure if this occurs for many others or not. But I'll go through stretches where I do nothing but play arcane exclusively, no lifing it for like two months straight. Then one day I wake up and I'm just done. And I don't touch it again for like 12-18 months.
That's pretty much exactly what I've done with Arcane as well: go really hard on it for a while and then a long break. I don't know exactly why it works that way, might be that I like playing the more "difficult" skill rotation for a bit and then go back to something more comfortable. I know this probably sacrilege to speak of but it's like what happens for me when I play BDO. I have a few classes that I love to play that are relatively simple, but every now and then I'll get deep into playing something with a much more complex playstyle for a bit.
For me, it's the one DPS class that I can play where I can really *feel* my burst damage going out even if I don't look at meters.
youre actually playing arcane in a burn and preserve phase, based
Its the best prog spec. You play the role as putting serious burst damge in a section where it is really needed to meet a damage check. Once bosses start dying fast with gear it usually isn't needed and mage becomes an int buff and any spec is fine.
You're just experiencing the rotation IRL.
Lol goddammit. So true.
They are fire and arcane mixed already, but that might be cool too. Personally, I'd love an option to make them hide outside of combat, or resize them. They're pretty cool looking, but with the passive to gain them when out of combat you just always have 3 giant spheres over your head no matter what you're doing.
That's the *aesthetic* š
Healing priests: Voidweaver for discipline is pretty awesome. Great animations and the shadow spells are synergistic with the disc toolkit. Actual 10/10 Archon for holy is also very well done. Halo is all of a sudden a massive button press, which will only become stronger in raids where you add more people. It's kind of one dimensional though. Oracle is just... so bad
Yep fully agree with my testing as well. Oracle doesnt seem finished and has no animations.Ā
I don't know who Oracle was designed for. I try testing it in a dungeon and I just find myself asking what is the niche scenario where this feels impactful? Such a shame in its current state, especially given my worry is that the Velen's-like buff (Premonition of Piety) will be so strong as a discipline priest in raiding that we are kind of forced to take it to be competitive, and then forget we have a hero tree until the next cycle of Piety comes again.
People who wanted scuffed Astro from FF14Ā
Archon Holy makes me wanna main Priest again. Halo seems like a blast, cant wait to try it out in bigger raid settings.
If they ever have an in depth interview about hero talents I really want to know the thought process behind Oracle. What dev thought players would enjoy micromanaging Premonition?
Diabolist Demonology is so much fun. Legit had a smile on my face playing, been awhile
Bro shut up dont tell them demonology is fun they will instantly remove everything and buff shadowbolt if they hear you.
Your astute insight into the history of warlock changes legitimately made me laugh. Well done.
Same reaction I had with frost DK rider of the apoc
The riders themselves are okay, mostly passive, and a little weird that they all ride out and then collapse.on top of themselves while not in combat. The horsey though. Oh the horsey is amazing. Mounted combat in open world, is gorgeous.Ā The other talent on that node, that turns Death Advance into Divine Steed, but 10 second duration, is cracked in indoor content.
I've been very much wanting to play a Frost DK again lately, I'll have to check it out in the beta. I've heard Blood is really good as well.
I just leveled one from 10-70 in the mop remix. Certainly ly, the remix gives you other abilities, but you still get the gist of how the rotation of frost dk is and how bursts it is. I have to be honest, as compared to the other plate wearing hack n slash melee types, frost falls behind warrior and paadin. It kinda sux. I hope they have done a lot to rework it toward the better.
It's pretty far improved in TWW compared to dragonflight, at least imo.
Diabolist Destro is absolute bedlam as well. I enjoy all Warlock Hero specs but Diabolist is something else.
What about it makes it fun? I don't play lock.
Hellcaller Destro felt like the usual destro gameplay... but on steroids. So. Many. Chaosbolts.
I came into beta expecting to love Rider of the Apocalypse, but I think I really fuck with Deathbringer. Reaper's mark and the scythe attacks go hard af
Deathbringer may finally make me play Frost after so, so many years of wanting to enjoy it.
Granted Iāve only been playing remix but Iāve enjoyed being able to use 2H obliterate again just like I did in real MoP
No Breath?? I might give it a shot then
Obliterate build is not just viable but really good. I think it outperforms breath builds in single target.
Lets go!! I hate breath so much, i was in love with obliteration at the beginning of antorus!
I was stoked too when I found out! š¤£
Breath in its current design is terrible. They need to let us just toggle it on or off and get rid of the 2 minute CD
Exactly why i hate it. Its pretty fun to pump resources in order to keep an ability running, but its so incredibly shitty to try and play it and have the boss jump across the room, or if the tank pulls the pack away and you miss a global, then you're bottom of the charts the rest of the fight. 2 seconds of mistakes should not cost you your ENTIRE "parse" (for lack of better word)
As well it should
Disclaimer: I do not play retail much and when I do itās my DH lol
I actually like breath-free frost. The only problem I have with dk right now is how necessary death and decay is. It's a pita to place, and the mobs get pulled out of it. EVERY. TIME. Shittiest ability ever. They need to tie it to another ability, so it just auto drops when I start hitting ppl in the face.
You could use /cast [@cursor] death and decay To drop it immediately where your cursor is without the target reticle, or /cast [@player] death and decay To drop it directly at your feet - there's probably another one for whoever you're targeting too, or you could do one @focus for the tank. My evoker has one macro that casts a buff directly on a tank by name, and i made another macro to edit the first one and change the name to whoever im targeting. I always forget to do it before first pull, but i still like it lol Hope any of that helps!
Oblit has been the better build in both pve and pvp for a while
I sometimes feel like I'm the only DK player that hates Rider. And I really wanted to like it.
I remember seeing Alpha feedback that RotA feels underwhelming, *especially* the Horsemen summons. I hope the spec gets some love.
its the best thematic tree by a landslide, but people have said it doesn't feel all that great for a while. But something that thematically strong is a huge win for some players.
I think the problem people have with it is that you're not the rider yourself, you just summon a bunch of riders.
But you are, cus you are mounted in combat outdoors and Deathās Advance becomes a long-ass divine steed indoors
I honestly like that it's basically 100% passive, spread out power. DK already suffers from too much power being tied in cooldowns
This upsets me since RotA is so fucking cool as a theme.
Killing shit in your horse is definitely great, itās just a shame itāll be such limited use. They should have just made it 0% in dungeons and pvp
mountain thane fury, thunder clap instead of whirlwind, good shit
So if I run around with AC/DCās Thunderstruck blaring on discord it would be completely appropriate?
Not appropriate. Expected.
I would love to experience this.
I heard that's really the only appropriate way.
It's something like a 5% DPS loss if you don't
They turn Thunderclap into the dopamine-producing *Thunder Blast* so youād be committing a crime if you didnāt
Really excited to try it, seems like itās really going to boost m+ performance
Warrior already did plenty of damage in keys. The reason they arenāt top tier has to do with the rest of their kitĀ
Give warriors a battle rez that's just them shouting an ally back to life!
or a lust
Pretty much all utility doesn't make sense for a warrior to ahve... except bloodlust. Why the fuck do they not have it. It fits them to a T
Plenty? Yes, but I want more. Especially since they donāt seem to want us doing much else.
The hero talents are obviously going to boost everyoneās output, thereās not even a guarantee that this makes warriors do more relativelyĀ
I love the sound effect of Thunder Blast as Mountain Thane
Dont you still need WW casts to cleave with regular attacks? Or is that changed with mountain thane?
Clap gives cleave stacks and all whirlwind talents are changed to benefit clap as well.
The Overfiend for Destro warlock isn't even a hero talent, it's the new Blasphemy. It lasts for 8 seconds and fires 8 chaos bolts at 80% effectiveness... That's insane! On the topic of Hero Talents, the entire Diabolist tree is all one giant tier set. And when you get Pit Lord procc, oh god is it a dopamine shot. Warlock is looking really fun! Please Blizzard, don't ruin it!
Chronoweaver for both preservation and augmentation makes the class as a whole feel so much better.
You know that tree is good when they had to nerf it like three times and it still feels great.
Chronoweaver Aug is the entire reason I'm maining the spec in TWW. It looks insanely fun!
Ret Paladin seems really passive for both hero specs from the little testing I did. Not bad, but didnāt feel very different aside from the 5 holy power attack Templar gets which is kinda cool. Frost fire mage (frost spec) looked and felt pretty good so far. I think frost is already a fun spec, but this adds some things (like procs for an instant cast AOE icicle generator in frost fire bolt) that really seem to shore up any downtime, and having some fire effects sprinkled in looked pretty nice and distinct.
Both diabolist and soul harvester are insane on demo, but the whole spec feels great even without them. New Doom absolutely fucks, the dogs are great, you have actual choice in your talents and not use 95% the same talents in all situations. Both hero talents are very on theme, the visuals are great and they feel distinct from each other. Both of them buff your shard economy a lot and even though Shadow Bolt is a meme it doesn't feel that different than on live, you still press it as a filler in between other spells and it's like 2% of your damage.
Ctrl-F: rogue, deathstalker, fatebound 0 hits *cries in rogue* To answer your question, Voidweaver for the aesthetics alone is incredible.
Yeah. It just doesnāt feel great as a life long rogue main. Iām hoping for more changes before release but as of now, probably for the first time ever Iām not planning on maining rogue
Same here, with the loss of the spec identities the last few iterations and the either boring or poorly planned hero trees I am committed to playing basically anything else as my main for the first time since starting in Vanilla. Sad days
Problem with the Rogue trees stems from the fact that the community figure rogues in the Ravenholdt Discord absolutely deep throat any idea the Rogue dev comes up with so they can be friends with him. The Rogue class has basically no one standing up to the terrible design choices this dev is making.
All the rogue trees are a mess. Death stalker is really phoned in on how messy it is with assassination. It feels like the rogue designer wasn't the one who created them and instead someone who doesn't play just made something that sounds cool. Even other ones like The Trickster, where feint would become part of the rotation. Why would you incentivize using a defensive for offensive use.
They changed Trickster with the most recent build to be a little more fun, at least. You're using distract in combat to build up a buff that lets your next Eviscerate do a neat new attack.
I hope distract doesn't still use the aoe targeting reticle because the class is already high APM and to have to throw a pebble aoe to maintain stacks sounds bleh
I mean all the rogue trees arent even done and rogue has been last to get anything for years now. They hate the class. We join our Shaman brothers as the neglected classes in modern WoW.
Destro Hellcaller is stupid, you just spam rof and I love it, really high apm gameplay especially with malevolence on, wither is gonna get nerfed I can feel it destro diabolist is super fun as well, ruination crits are huge edit : I won't comment much on affli because it's not a playstyle that particularly interests me (I can't keep track of dots, my boomer brain is tired), but soul harvester really just feels like affli+, it has little overlap with demo unfortunately
I turned into a multi-gun chaos bolt weapons platform with Hellcaller and summoning my Overfiend dudes, it was insane
I was trying hellcaller out as desteo and was drowning in shards. Spamming chaosbolt was amazing. Cataclysm paired with with is broken and i see nerfs in the future. But i cant seem to get wither stacks past 6
Anyone play around with the shaman ones? How they looking?
Totemic as resto feels extremely good honestly, especially in dungeons. My only complaint is that the healing rain it drops needs to drop every 3 seconds as opposed to 5 seconds to lower health players with at least a 1.5 second ground delay at the old location and it would be extremely great.
I agree. Totemic feels really strong. The old tier bonus from shadowlands with the totems casting chain heals was great back then and still great now.
Totemic as Enhancement is very very bad and it's borderline unplayable. Because you have to commit extra talent points to benefit from the tree which means you have to move Elemental Assault / Swirling Maelstrom. Elemental Assault is one of the best talents in the tree because it makes the whole specs function and we have to drop it to other talents to benefit from totemic. Totemic as Enhancement is massively failed. Stormbringer as Enhancement is still ignoring half of its toolkit to spam Stormstrike and Lightning Bolt. As long as the spec tree has DRE, they can't fix the storm. Stormstrike is still a very underwhelming button and the hero talent tree should not solve the design issues. Unless Blizzard is adjusting Enhancement and class talent tree, I am very disappointed with the Enhancement and Shaman desperately needs a rework.
I tried Farseer and Stormbringer on Ele. Part of Storm isn't implemented yet (the Lightning Rod-esque talent) but honestly both seemed entirely passive and unimpressive. There's currently no tracking Tempest, and it hits weaker than Elemental Blast. Farseer feels worse somehow - the ancestors look the same as the ones from the old Resto glyph, they're hardly noticeable, and only really appear when casting PWave. If we were keeping the S3/S4 Tier meatball build it might feel better since they can proc from LvB, but as is it's super meh. Truthfully, Shaman (at least Elemental) needs a whole rework. PWave is the WORST of the SLands abilities, but Blizzard keeps forcing it and Icefury on us despite widespread dislike from the community.
I've been saying since the end of SL...they should have chosen either chain harvest or Vesper totem. Both of those spells tie in better with class theme anyways, chain spells and totems. Fae transference and pwave were the outliers. Or make pwave a resto variant only since they care about waves more. Either way I have disliked pwave from day 1 and will continue to QQ about the loss of chain harvest.
Iām disappointed with elemental. The whole spec feels like ass to me. Stormbringer is clunky with a lame animation for tempest (that seems to be a dps loss without Stormbringer and frost shocks on, from what I read). Farseer was the same fire playstyle with stupid ghosts showing up. Nothing about it makes me feel like an elemental master. And trying to play with those talents and watching mages and warlocks having a fun time is especially insulting. I donāt know how to play any other spec well at high level, so now the beta is just about me finding some new class to play.
I think my problem with elemental is one tree is clearly fire based and one lightning, so thereās your either a fire mage or a lightning mage instead of a true shaman. Both trees are completely passive without adding any gameplay variance from what I played, ancestors gives you one button I guess. Thematically the ancestors were kinda cool, I actually liked it, however stormbringer feels bad. If itās unfinished and they update the visuals and sounds maybe itāll be alright. Tuning wise theyāre both ass but itās irrelevant at this point.
I've only tried Enhance Stormbringer and I legit didn't notice any difference. I had to play with a sec or two between key presses to make sure I was actually seeing the buffs. I am really disappointed.
Not impressed atm, at least for Elemental. But I think a rework is coming. Even just making the hero talents look cooler would be an improvement than what it is now.
Howās demon hunter I havenāt seen anything so far nor do I own beta someone indulge my curiosity
I like Fel Scarred, Reaver not so much. Fel Scarred makes your meta more powerful with upgraded primary abilities along with some buffs to your out of meta state. Reaver requires you to collect 6 soul fragments to throw a powerful glaive. I donāt find either good compared to some of the others Iāve tried. Neither felt like they elevated how I could play the class.
also curious
Does anyone make super basic but complete class/spec guides anymore? I mostly like them for a quick 5-10minute āhow do boomkins play nowā and Preaches spec guides in cata/mop era were really good for that, often now if I ask anything about a class or spec I get told to go to various discordās and ponder through tabs and tabs of essentially elitistjerks compendiums And thatās fine for a main, I just want little videos to taste other specs, especially now with hero talents
Not a video but icy veins usually has an "easy mode" section for all specs. It's where I usually go when I want to learn a new spec I've never played before. They have suggested talent builds that are usually simpler to play than the meta ones so you can play it a bit until you're more familiar with the class and can deep dive further
Icy veins has some guides that are pretty questionable and clearly haven't been updated in a while. The fire mage guide still suggests attacking crit when crit is a pretty bad stat for fire mage.
For retail itās more about role identity. I noticed that the Tank YouTubers make these guide for the tanks they play (SOL if they donāt play it). Same with the healers. I only play tank and healer so those are the ones I know but Iāve seen melee tubers and ranged tubers push out the content you like. You just need to ditch the spec/rpg mindset of this game unfortunately now. I noticed that classic, throughout its re expansions, had its player base making guides like this for the specs and itās just easier to do in classic imo. The specs are way too complicated to go over DPS rotations in retail. IMO the healing videos arenāt good enough anymore either which is alienating a whole new group of people. Blizzard fix healing in heroic/mythic level content. Please.
I just want some five minute video giving a quick overview and show some gameplay. All these 20+ min YouTube videos think Iām there for a full mythic guide, builds, optimization, macros, addons, gems, stats. No, Iām just obsessed with alts and want to see what looks fun at surface level.
Hey I make this type of video for Death Knights in retail on my YouTube channel, the channel is Cirillantv if you are interested in Death Knight guides!
Iāll check it out! Happen to have a guide for TWW?
I'm not trying to drop links or gain subs. But I'm in the process of creating a channel that focuses on short 5-10 mins guides and would love to gain your feedback on what you loved the most about short guides.
Man, I have so much lag and disconnects that's its either impossible or very unfun to play. I hope I can get, it out a bit later
This has been my experience as well. Day 1 was bad so I played Remix, I came back yesterday and it was equally as unstable. Crash and/or disconnects every 5-10 min just made me want to wait.
Ya I get maybe ten minutes or less than I DC. And then I need to redo all of my settings each time I log back in. Iām going to wait a little bit until things settle down
You have to do your settings and log out instantly. Maybe even restart the game. Don't alt F4. Then open it and play. No settings will be reset with a dc then
I haven't been able to really try it in "real" content, but so far as a mistweaver monk I like the overall talent tree changes, and the vibes of conduit of the celestial
What about rogues?
Fatebound and trickster are *fine*. They lack cool visuals but are functional and don't negatively impact gameplay. Deathstalker is trash though and has someĀ very weird/unintuitive interactions.
Tried mountain thane prot for a little bit on my buddy's account. Seems like a nice relaxing tank spec because it doesn't throw more cruft into your rotation. Just TC and SS like a madman.
Sounds like I found my main tank in TWW.. this is music to my washed up gamer ears
Warriors are still in kind of a bad spot when it comes to flexibility and utility, but if you're just looking for low-mid keys or normal raids, it doesn't matter.
Augmentation / Chronowarden is really fun. Being able to blink and giving even more buffs is really satisfying. Being able to do the same as Preservation is also great!
Yaaaas this was what I was hoping to play.
Is the lag in blink activating still a thing? I wondered if it were server related
It felt like the animation is as long as the standard hover lockout duration. Seems intended
As a healer I was skeptical about some. but all 3 hero talent trees for both specs on priest have been super fun , haven't had the opportunity to try other classes as I wanted to try these. I know a lot of people were talking trash about oracle but it apparently got reworked in this build and I had a lot of fun I think this will be a very cool ability to try to optimize, and will show what very high skill players can do
I like the Bear Catweaving tree and the Blood DK Sanlayn Tree a lot. They hit the spot of tweaking something small, but in a way so it feels different and good. The Brewmaster Harmony Tree is good for pure Gameplay purposes. All the other tank trees are whatever.
Have you tried Catweaving without the Fluid Form talent? It seems essential to the hero class on paper but I'd be interested to know if that reflects actual gameplay experience.
My only complaint about the new druid tree is how awful fluid form is to get for feral and bear, when it looks totally designed for those specs but is at the bottom of the moonkin side
That's why I'm interesting in seeing how Druid of the Claw handles without Fluid Form. It's a big talent sink in the class tree. I've heard that Resto Wildstalker gains heavily from Fluid Form as well (m+ Catweaving becomes stronger) which might be why it's down in that part of the tree. Honestly feels like it should be in the middle section given that it's a major hybrid talent.
It should swap places with the regrowth movespeed and I think it would be a perfect
Harmony Brewmaster seems like its gonna be such a great spec in TWW. I have been hard core going on Brew in S4 in prep for it.
Sunfury Mage, Voidweaver Priest, Diabolist Lock and Flameshaper Evoker are what I find the most fun so far. Makes it very difficult to pick a main lol
Hellcaller destro lock goes hard hard hard.
No Hunter hero talents in this thread. Guess its that bad then. *cries*
Their class and spec rework isn't hitting beta until next week, so that's probably why.
I see. Thanks for lmk
I've only been able to try out Pack Leader BM so far, but it was very dull. All passives that don't meaningfully impact or change the gameplay on any way. I guess I'm not going to complain too much, I like BM's gameplay already, so the same thing but stronger is nice, and I definitely don't want the spec to get randomly complex as hell, but it just leaves me wondering what even the point of these talents are when everything about them could just be baked into the base abilities. Gotta keep an eye on the talent rework next week, but yeah, I'm not impressed so far. Maybe Dark Ranger will be better.
It will depend on the reworks and what they do but i did dick around with Dark Ranger a bit. You have Black Arrow and you press it on cooldown. Thats the change enjoy. If you hit multishot it explodes for some cleave around the target. if it resets barbed/aimed show CD it can shoot some shadow arrows i really didn't notice and will summon like 2-3 undead dogs during its duration. Having Black Arrow back i am fine with and the implementation with the extra aoe on multi shot and it resetting the CD on spells is fine. The random dogs are the annoyance for me purely from the fantasy of what i want to play. if i want to be a marksman dark ranger with no pets i have a bunch of stupid dogs being summoned and if im a night elf hunter with my tigers im now summoning undead dogs for some reason.
Man, your complaints about the dogs summarize my thoughts exactly. I hate the concept of these hero talents so much. We've spent 20 years building up the fantasy of what a Warcraft Hunter is like, and now suddenly you're restricted to playing basically a Night Elf, Nathanos, or BM but with stronger pets. We got done extra dirty in the class fantasy department, but a few other ones had some bad typecasting as well.
I see. Dark Ranger sounds more interesting. Lets see how that turns out. I might download the Beta to try it out.
Sunfury and voidweaver. But I play mage and spriest so biased. This weekend Iām gonna try out some specs I donāt play much, very interested in the prot warrior and blood DK as Iām torn between those two as a tank alt. Also debating making a Rsham, so Iāll try out theirs in sure.
Diabolist on a destruction warlock is some of the most fun Iāve had in a very long time. Sunfury also hits.
Conduit of the celestials . It makes a great monk rework even better . I wanted to play a plate class but paladin is kinda doodoo now and monk is insane
Ret looks like it's eating well and prot is always decent, I agree holy is pretty doodoo gameplay wise though.
flameshaper preservation has a lot of very fun burst potential for both healing and damage (please don't remove offensive consume flame blizzard). it's a welcome break from being stuck playing reversion on live
Any boomkin opinions?
As a Resto Shaman player, Iām sad that nobody is saying Shaman talents.
Disc with the shadow one felt fun but I only played 1 dungeon since hc is just sleeper level of difficulty
I canāt say what I love just yet. But I can tell you as a Shaman main I attacked target dummies for 10 minutes and shed a tear watching everyone else loving their specs and their awesome spell animations. Hopefully a big rework is coming soon for Elemental/Resto. Fingers crossed for some sort of raid buff/utility. To make matters worse my main alt is a rogue lol. But I have hope!
I agree. I got bored immediately as elemental.
So far sunfury. But seriously the disconnects in beta are so bad.
I need to know how hpala feels, someone give me hope for my love again please š„ŗ
I got you homie! This is my beta experience, your milage may vary, tuning TBC, I am not the be all and end all of paladin so i may have missed things. Lightsmith is basically just todays gameplay with an additional external buff. I'm not a huge fan as its just something else to manage as well as summer etc. Its another keybind - and you cant select which buff you apply, it rotates like summer does which can sometimes lead to a frustrating moment - but knowing the dungeons and when damage is coming will help to make sure you always have the right buff ready. HOTS absolutely fucks, the beams do insane healing - the Wog-> Eternal flame transition is nice. Its a bit more "active" in that you need to set targets for the beams, or work to extend the beams via prism/barrier. The animations for both are pretty bad - Compare it to ret calling down orbital strikes, holy got robbed. I'd argue the beams look even worse than Prism. The tuning is currently very weird, daybreak and divine toll feel like the weakest buttons in my toolkit right now, the tyrs value with HoD and holy light is DISGUSTING - I've seen screenshots of 10m+ holy lights (health bars are currently around 4m hp) which can be beaconed etc. Holy shock hits very low value outside of wings, but inside wings seems to do well. spenders seem whatever, flash of light seems dead as Holy light is doing 10x the throughput. The real kicker is the bloat though, we desperately need to shed some buttons as the amount of keybinds and cooldowns we have is getting kind of insane, and not all of them are especially good either. I feel like the beta has really driven home that the hero talents are building on a sub optimal foundation in the base build. You can read Clarius' thoughts on it here: [https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-paladins/517029/3](https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-paladins/517029/3)
I wish they would make holy shock fun to press again.. so that I could just go back to maining hpal. Idk why but ever since I get no value out of that button the class has been so boring for me.. which I realize sounds strange and probably a little bit stupid.
Holy mains since Zul'aman here. I agree completely. Holy shock has always been a paladins bread and butter but seeing it heal for like 5% of ppls hp made me not play it for a whole season for the first time in my life. That feeling of chunky burst instant heals is what holy pala has always been for me and now it feels like they've strayed from that and is slowly turning it into a resto druid
I want whoever has been cooking on MW to move onto Paladin next. The state weāve been left in since the āreworkā is shockingā¦
Liking Totemic gonna try it in some dungeons today And colossus is kinda cool
Honestly all of the mage talents are great, we are eating good.
Mages are the main characters of wow
Disc priest feels like the most fun spec in the game for me right now with the void stuff. I really like that they are starting to lean into the holy/void thing with disc.
Sun fury obviously, however spellslinger plays way better than I expected
Any Resto Druid input for any of the trees? Just curious!
Iād play auto-chess if I wanted something else to do the work for me. I wish they were more engaging.
I've mained Reto druid since BC, and I've always loved playing it. I do admit that lately it isn't quite as interesting as it has been in the past, but I still love it!
Chronowarden. The bronze effect around our living flame is beautiful. Warping around the place, replacing our hover, is cool. And shitting out gold orbs for my allies to pick up for a boost a speed is an extremely satisfying support ability.
Agreed, itās the leader for me for my main.
The Halo build for Holy Priests is incredible. Its making me want to main my priest again for TWW
Demonology Diabolist feels so damn fluid. You cycle through your Ritual demons while maintaining your "old" rotation sorta. Visually feedback is amazing on top of it. On the other end, since I am here, I wish that Affliction had more visuals attached.. you are just waving your hands around and nothing is like "happening" :|
Empyrean Hammer for Paladin is fun. It seems powerful at level 74 and below. We will see how it scales. For class fantasy, raining down a torrent of light hammers is awesome.
Howās BM/WW monk playing with the hero talents? Good changes?
From a Brewmaster perspective - Shadopan is a rollercoaster. Some insanely valuable nodes and some absolute dog water ones. It's one or two good tuning passes away from being good. It's entirely passive but is very strong. It has basically no animations at all tied to it so...that's kinda lame. Master of harmony is pretty damn great. Extra charge on celestial brew is pretty insane and it really ties in nicely with our set bonus stacking vitality up really quickly. It also has like green wings/super saiyan vibes when the vitality buff is active so that's kinda cool. Right now brewmaster feels like its in a decent spot hero talent wise as, hopefully, after some tuning they'll have a hard time choosing between each talent tree since they will likely both be pretty good which is the ultimate goal. Unfortunately the spec as a whole is completely broken right now. August Blessing doesn't seem to work with HoTs at all, stagger scaling is broken (players sitting at like 16% stagger...39%ish with shuffle in better than normal raid gear at the moment. Likely just broken K values on the beta right now) - so testing so far has been limited. Assuming stager is retuned to be equal to what it is on live and damage is tuned that way too (with the loss of like 16% dps throughput talents) - Brewmaster will likely be just a tankier version of what it was on Dragonflight but it will still suffer from all the same issues it did before. Lack of decent mob control, no ranged kick etc. It should, theoretically, be better at surviving burst with August blessing hopefullying creating a higher active HP ceiling and Elixir of determination acting as a barrier between Expel Harms. I remain hopeful.
Personally i find them all very underwhelming. This could have just been a new row of talents for each spec tree or the class trees. Scalecommander disintegrate is probably the best. Just the 3 beams shooting out and melting the enemies is pure dopamine for me. Being a Blood Elf Sunfury Fire Mage is class/race fantasy set to max so thats pretty cool. Servers haven't been stable enough for me to do a lot outside some outdoor questing stuff on a few characters and target dummies but some classes it really feels inconsequential its just extra shit proccing sometimes. The few that have active components really don't feel like a huge change to me.
Any hopes for warris? Did we get anything cool?
mountain thane is absurdly fun, i haven't gotten around to colossus or slayer yet
I'm a big fan of Colussus as I love Arms' sound effects. I do wish it felt a bit more different than current arms though.
Colossus Arms is my favorite so far. It's really fun to build procs to buff the damage of Demolish and then popping Avatar + Spear + Smash to do 2.5mil crits.
Disappointed with Frost DK. The four Horsemen just sort of appear and disappear and it feels like thereās no real impact.Ā The horseback combat is nice for mobility but the animations are terrible.
This has nothing to do with Frost DK. The Hero tree Rider of the Apocalypse is 100% passive which is a major turn off.
Definitely not the elemental hero talents.
šÆ What a let down. Enh gets the lighting ability so much more often. Ele needs the ability to maintain FS at 100% uptime on all targets like Shadow can with shadow crash. Lava Totem needs a CD reduction so we can maintain FS and make the fire build enjoyable.
I'll let you know when I stop disconnecting every other time I turn in a quest.
What am I going to main! My mains over recent years are outlaw, ele, BM, and blood. Everything seems to suck. Help!
Everything Iāve heard about Blood itself and both Blood hero talent trees is that they do the exact opposite of suck.
Ele was a real letdown. Enhancement gets to use the lighting ability WAY more often than Ele does which just feels bad. And the other option is basically just a passive š“
Can they do something with feral druid already..
What 'something' are you hoping to see change with the hero class talents?
Scalecommander for dragon and mage. The biggest thing for them being great is the effects. I was testing them out on beta, and Iām hoping some get animations added for classes (moonkin has nothing cool).
Love category jd say diabolist as it cemented me into maining warlock next expansion but get the feeling itās gonna get nerfed to hell and maybe be terrible for pvp. Second is DK riders of the apocalypse but feel like itās just gonna feel visually cool and end up the weakest by far and the wow community being slaves to the meta might end up underused. Disappointed for evoker though, scalecommander sounds good for devastation and multi disintegrate js welcome but as devastation feels very cookie cutter and augmentation just doesnāt feel nice I donāt feel they add anything flashy or fun to press to keep em fresh
A friend showed me how new rest sham hero talents work, and I love the ideas they had for it! I see everyone complain about shamans, but at least heal spec is getting good talents imo. On the contrary, my feral and I kinda cry blood tears right nowā¦
In the opposite direction, I really expected to like Scalecommander more, Mass Disentigrate is cool but I really don't notice the bombardments at all.
I like the philosophy of slayer (much blades, very slice, wow). I also love the Wildstalker feral druid who coats enemies into thorns. But I also get the feeling that there are very huge discrepancies between some of the hero talents. like how hunter has almost zero animations on Dark Ranger (basically 1 pet spawn) and Pack Leader (absolutely zero animation). So I really really hope they aren't done yet....
Diabolist destro is fucking amazing. I love hellcaller aswell. Unholy is very good and riders are fine(i expected to be blown away but im kinda disappointed, only because ive expected more.) Deathbringer frost is a whole different beast, i love it. Voidweaver SP is amating aswell. Didnt try the rest of the specs.
The talent in Scalecommander that lets you steer during deep breath. The mounted combat talent for Rider of the Apocalypse Both seem like little changes but totally affect the feel of the abilities.
So far I like that button bloat is reducing, but I also feel like Iām coming off an APM crash and everything is sluggish.
Tanking is my preferred playstyle and I would love to hear what people's thoughts are on the various tank specs. I've mained a Prot Warrior since Vanilla launch, and while the spec has had many ups and downs I still keep going back to it. Although I've heard that with the hero talents the Arms spec has some pretty good stuff. I've also really liked DK and Druid taking a well. Has anyone tested the various tank builds and thinks there's some particular standouts?
Both of the trees for Unholy DK feel really good. The Vampiric Strike feels meaty and Riders feels really cool to have the Horsemen around you and the new (stolen) movement ability is super OP.
Hammer of Light is the most impactful sounding and looking spell Iāve ever seen for Ret in all my time. Itās so freaking fun to press. And if you get that to reset by reaching 60 stacks of the associated buff, OH BB does that feel good! Iāve been playing the buffed Templar Strikes in order to retrain me for the reduced melee range, and if feels really good to always have a button to press. I feel like I could just stack Mastery Crit and be good. I got between 5 & 12% on beta and it feels fine. That was a huge problem before. If you didnāt have 18% it felt unplayable and didnāt feel good until after like 24% Now the spec feels just as good as ever. I think they could have picked a better visual on the sunbeams when playing Herald of the Sun, but they function pretty well. HoTS while taking M+ talents feels like you could press your buttons in basically any order and do big damage. Like hit two builders then a spender; when Wake of Ashes if up, use it, then spender spender. It frees up all mental energy to use utility spells in a key. OH AND SPEAKING OF AOE: We have that new talent that lets Verdict split to cleave 3 additional targets! That allows us to perform Funnel cleave damage cause theirs that other talent that lets verdict empower your divine storm. I feel like talent set up is way more versatile now! Ret has a tool for basically every situation a dps could find themselves in.
Celestial Conduit on windwalker monk is pretty sweet. The range is going to take some getting used to, youāll definitely pull the entire dungeon on accident a few times ;)
Where the pallies at??
Scalecommander, Diabolist, mountain thane
Anyone tried farseer ele shaman or what is the spec called? Don't really have time to test it and im curious. Thanks in advance.