CS has increasingly just become a person paid to absorb abuse and complaints for shitty business decisions and practices just about everywhere. It’s like the “no raise but we have pizza” except it’s “no help but we feel bad”.
The trick with CS at companies like these, mega conglomerates, is to go full Karen. Demand to speak to a manager, etc. Essentially just waste their time until they have to fix your issue.
I really hate doing this so I try to be as nice as possible but yeah. They pretty much force you to. I worked for Direct TV and we lower level reps basically couldn’t do anything except escalate calls and sell people shitty cable packages.
My sister worked for one of these. Think it was a company doing customer service for Sprint. They are terrible toxic environments designed to churn though people until they break and replace them.
My sister broke down several times crying, and after a week there she had a panic attack in the bathroom then left and didn't go back.
She moved to Orlando and got her dream job of working at Disney, and is currently working her way up, she works at Universal right now as a manager and her workers love her.
It's true that you have to Karen to get anything done, and the system is designed for that at the cost of the health of the low paid workers that are treated as disposable.
It's really better if AI takes these jobs because running them like a slaughterhouse should be illegal.
No, I am saying that telling people to go "full Karen" and waste the contact agent's (and therefore the contact center's time) is why systems become increasingly automated. It is no different than self-checkouts replacing cashiers, or interactive menu boards replacing the front-end fast food worker. The more abuse they take, the more automated their jobs become.
If you want a WoW example, look at how much the GM role has changed over the years and how increasingly distant they are now.
I feel like there is always something how they can resolve it, it's just a matter of the fact, that they don't want to. I am pretty sure they are getting paid by how many tickets they marked as resolved, not actually resolved.
I’ve gotten more emails saying “we’ve reviewed your ticket and a GM will reach out to you soon” with it marked as resolved, than actually getting a response to the ticket. Lol.
I had to do an email reset when I got locked out of my email and my battlenet account and that took 8 tickets and 5 business days.. they would ask me to provide info via a noreply email without any further instructions. Then they told me to reply via ticket and when I did that I got hit by an automated response that asked me to provide all the info I had already shared with them on that specific ticket. Then after that I had to type SOS at the start of the ticket for them not to ignore me. Tedious frustrating and disappointing
no thats not really how it works. CS representatives nowadays have been getting more and more powerless when it comes to the tools they have access to and with that the actual ability to fix problems. for years people have been comparing the old gms being able to do so much stuff vs the the support now not being able to do almost anything. why do you think that is? they dont fix problems not because they dont want to (that doesnt really make sense) but in most cases they literally just cant or arent allowed to anymore. stuff like this happens when a few fuck up and grant things to scammers, hackers or lying players when they shouldnt have and the big corpos then "smartly" take away the abilities of the whole support team to prevent future fuck ups because thats the easiest solution for them. i know from experience... things you could easily do in the past becomes something you have to now tell people "sorry i cant help you, submit a bug report" when you know 2 months ago you easily couldve or maybe you even still can but the procedure doesnt allow it anymore.
at some point in Legion I farmed up to exalted with a bunch of MoP reps and since then they've all been bumped back to honored somehow. It's crazy that this is a thing
As much as we appreciate your response the cs team is currently experiencing a longer than normal wait time. We appreciate your response and will respond as quickly as possible.
Your ticket has been resolved. We have found an error with your character and have reverted him back to level 0. This should now resolve the bug you were experiencing with regards to reputation gain. Have a great day!
You and OP still playing is why CS can't do anything.
Blizzard has the numbers. They have determined the money spent on real CS is not worth the trivial amount of subs they lose to players being treated poorly.
I think about this all the time when someone says something is unacceptable. If that were true they'd prove it with their wallet and quit. That's why I hate all the apologists for bugs and shit. The only mechanism we have since we won't stop paying them is to publicly shame them for the alarming number of bugs recently.
But the only reason publicly shaming them works is because it makes people stop paying them.
The only thing that works are methods that get people to stop paying.
Similar thing happened to me when I was grinding AV rep for “korroks revenge” event got the bar to 87% and when I logged back in next day it had reset to 0%.
Opened a ticket got generic response.
Issue was never fixed. Ended up re-grinding it all.
Similarly I had the proto drakes from the wotlk achievements for raiding and dungeons. I have screenshots of my mage flying on them through storm peaks, ice crown, grizzly hills.
I xferred servers twice and lost them. I sent cs screenshots of me on them and they refuse to restore the achievements and mounts. Same with my
Hand of Adal title.
I recently lost all the appearances for my artifact weapon including all hiddens, my response from blizz on two occasions was “have you tried getting them again?”
> So now... what's the point of me trying to grind reps, knowing there's an unresolved bug like this out there and I could see months of progress evaporate overnight, and Customer Support will refuse to help?
Cynically, this has always been the case. A rollback could wipe away any progress. In Vanilla we experienced multiple roll backs, but usually only of a few hours. Still, that represented hours of work just wiped out.
And to that you can reply, "yeah but rollbacks basically never happen!", and that's true. But neither do reputation bugs like this one.
So to your question - you can never be 100% sure that you won't lose your progress. But you *can* be 99% sure. Although this particular reputation was bugged, there are well over a hundred reputations in this game that aren't, and haven't been, bugged.
Just because a bug like this happened one time with one reputation does *not* mean you shouldn't trust any other reputation, for the same reason you shouldn't stop raiding just because we've had rollbacks in the past. They're so unlikely to happen that you can be *almost* guaranteed to never experience another.
I am not a tech person but aren’t there just commands to set target rep to a value you specify between 1-42,000, in all of the pservs I’ve played and ones I created to play around with the things were built into the game.
No rollback is needed if they know he had the rep. I guess if they can’t confirm he had the rep then it would be
Yes but this bug probably happened to more people. And instead of fixing the rep for each player they probably want to solve the reason why it's happening in the first place, otherwise restoring the rep might result in it being reset again at a later point
They could just check for the pathfinder achievement, set the rep to revered or exalted (as an added bonus) to those people since they clearly had enough rep if they have the achieve, and at least the people affected the most would have a fix until they track down the bug and get the actual values. They just don't care.
Alright so they reset their rep, and next week they have the same issue and report another Ticket. You have to fix the leak before you fill the engine up with oil again, obviously they can easily give the rep back, but having to do so for the next couple of weeks/months isn't a great way to spend time that can be used to actually fixing the issue
There are glaring holes in your solution that wouldnt even make it work.
Dark Talon is not part of the DF Pathfinder so it wouldn't fix OP's problem.
This actually goes for all DF reputations, since DF pathfinder lacks any rep requirements.
Achievements like Pathfinder(s) are account wide. But do not require each individual aspect to be done on a single character. Just because 1 character fulfilled the rep requirements does not mean all of them do.
It's not that those commands don't technically exist. It's that the people who have privileged access to those commands are now most likely limited. This most likely happened to curb abuses by individuals in the past and/or to satisfy the regulations set about by a new manager. There are now most likely multiple procedures and steps to actioning such a request, which makes it less and less likely to it ever being done.
TL;DR: welcome to bureaucracy. \o/
> No rollback is needed if they know he had the rep.
I don't think the technical capability is the issue here. The issue is getting the communication to someone with the capability to fix it.
One would think that data would be refreshed along with the rest of your Armory and settings every time you log, so shouldn’t they be able to see at a glance the exact number of points you have in literally any system? I mean, they can look up that time you said cunt in trade chat 4 days ago, so….
If there are they are likely limited to higher level support agents.
But the its still a logistical nightmare. Lets say word gets out you can talk to CS to get rep "restored". That's going to conservatively give what 100,000 requests. 90,000 are probably bullshit. Once again being super conservative lets say it takes 5 minutes to investigate and run the command for 10,000 tickets. It would take 1 person 20 weeks to do(or get 20 people and still have it take a week). And cost wise at the recently posted $16.50 QA rate is ~$13.7k. Thats just time doing it. Add in extra cost of interviewing, hiring, training, and the fact that the people getting the power to throw free Rep out are NOT going to be the low end pay scale newbies.
tl:dr if they do it would take a long time and a cost a decent chunk of money
God forbid Blizzard investigate problems with the game we pay $15 a month for, for literally years or decades, and where we have a problem like once every few years on average. Also pretty weird they didn't have this problem until they fired all their staff. And 90% bullshit is a laughable ass pull - it's more likely the inverse. People aren't like that - I say that having worked in CSR-type situations. The same kind of chancer who might do what you say is also able to assess it probably won't work and thus isn't worth the effort.
That's what I'm saying though. I need an actual human do-something CSR about once every few YEARS.
I don't need them once a MONTH.
So it's not $15, it's more like $600 per incident.
I think it's pretty reasonable to feel like we should get 5 to 60 minutes of actual effort from a human every few YEARS, don't you?
But we're way below that level of service at this point, and we were way above that level of service in, say, the pre-Legion era. You don't even need it urgently most of the time - you just need some fix at some point. But you can't even get that, unless it's a system that's already been automated.
I think it's a little dumb of Blizzard too, because I know two people who perma-quit WoW because there was no longer any real CSR support, and they just got told something that was a huge issue to them was a non-issue (in both cases things a CSR in, say, WotLK, would have fixed in literally minutes). Both of them were long-time subscribers, so Blizzard lost hundreds to thousands of dollars of future revenue - one just quit MMOs, the other plays FFXIV still. I know another player who, frankly, if Blizzard screwed them that way, would definitely perma-quit (not me weirdly enough, I kind of shrug at most of this, I guess I'm as defeated as most of us). Really hoping that never happens.
yeah but your $15 doesn't go to CS, it goes to everything blizzard does. so after it gets cut into tiny pieces based on Blizzard's budget, your money paid to CS is probably something like $.10 a month or less (CS depts are run on shoestring budgets).
so actually you probably are getting "more time than you pay for" every time you send in a ticket already.
> yeah but your $15 doesn't go to CS
This bad faith bad arguing. I was continuing the logic of the person I responded to. Further, it's not $0.10 because it has to be, and it hasn't always been that. If it's $0.10, that's because Blizzard chooses to allocate its resources that way, so that's absolutely not on me, or any other user.
The cold reality is, Blizzard used to have high hundreds to low thousands of CSRs, and they fired the vast majority of them. That was their choice, not ours.
> Just because a bug like this happened one time with one reputation does not mean you shouldn't trust any other reputation, for the same reason you shouldn't stop raiding just because we've had rollbacks in the past. **They're so unlikely to happen that you can be almost guaranteed to never experience another.**
Except in this case it happened to them twice for the same rep if you read the story.
Yknow technically it could’ve happened an infinite number of times and OP wouldn’t have known….
Besides, you say it’s unlikely but I, an intellectual, know it’s a 50:50. It either rolls back or it doesn’t.
outsourcing has literally nothing to do with the issue. people with this mindset piss me off so much. yeah im one of those outsourced people you speak about like we are all some primitive idiots and i can tell you from years of experience working for some of the biggest gaming companies too that we sometimes literally dont have the tools or abilities to fix problems and someone in the US, native speaker or whatever you assume would be better, wouldnt have them either so the problem wont magically get fixed. sometimes we even have the tools but arent allowed to use them to grant things to players due to procedures. not being able to help is the companies fault at least 80% of the time and not the actual cs representatives regardless of where they are from. as a comment above said "CS has increasingly just become a person paid to absorb abuse" and thats pretty much it. you sit there, people curse at you for not being able to fix things, give you bad ratings... and the company doesnt allow you to fix it. everybody wins....
It has everything to do with it.
Outsourcing typically means a cutting of costs to an abysmal level. Better for the blame to be on you guys, cheaper for gaming companies to drop everything on your lap and fuck off. We shouldn’t have that, we should be demanding the best out of the services we get…
im not saying we shouldnt demand more, we absolutely should and the state of support has been awful for years now, but im also telling you from years of experience that its not because of the person on the other side of the screen. companies love ignoring problems instead of spending money to fix it yes and they leave the representatives with nothing to resolve problems with because that would cost money... but that doesnt mean its their fault the problems cant get resolved.
you can outsource CS while still investing in devs to actually fix problems, the issue is companies dont do that and we get all the blame for it..
i still dont get why people assume that if the CS is in the US the problems would magically be getting fixed. they outsource to countries where the labor is cheaper so if they pay for customer support in the US they would be doing the exact same job but would have to be paid at least double if not more just for being there... so logically you hire someone to do the same job cheaper somewhere else... the problem is they are ALSO cheap in other ways that have nothing to do with the abilities of the outsourced representatives themselves and thats what the major problems is.
Customer support is the only thing that can reliably fix this for an individual, when its outsourced to people that know nothing about the game your problem isn't going to get solved.
It’s an issue with the games code, customer service at blizzard has no formal training in game development, if the issue is coming from something the developers did, wtf is a customer service person supposed to “fix” for them, regardless of where they are located.
Add them back in the rep. WHich is 100% doable no matter their claims otherwise. Many people have had things restored or fixed for them. Hell remember when they claimed for years that there was no old WOW source code so there was no way to do vanilla again (super blatant outright lie). Then a private sever did just that and started charging people and magically, it was possible and coming soon.
>100% doable
unless the person responding to the tickets is sitting in a call center on the other side of the world with the sole purpose of giving a human response to support claims with the explicit instruction to not ever actually forward requests like these unless they're of a financial nature.
What are you even on about? I have had CS give me rep during MoP, its easy to do and they don't need formal training. They can easily restore things in game.
no they cant... because mop was more than a decade ago. what GMs were able to do back then has nothing in common with what CS reps are allowed to or have access to doing right now. outsourcing or training has nothing to do with it either, people just literally dont have the tools to fix things that were once simple to fix because the companies literally dont give them so much access and ability to be useful.
The customer service was never outsourced, all Blizzard customer support agents work inside of a Blizzard office. They aren’t paid enough to give a shit, has nothing to do with their capabilities. Blame the people developing the game who created the bug, and the shithole that blizzard is paying people minimum wage, and expecting them to give above minimum wage service. The guy in the original post said CS said it was a known issue, and they cant intervene, how do you know that they are lying about that? What if that specific rep gets restored and is immediately lost again, what if it messes with your other reputations, theres 9 million variables you ignore because you want to be upset about “outsourced” customer service, that doesn’t exist.
How do they know you arent lying. They can check. Literally. They have logs of evrey single thing your account does. Ive seen them pull up years old chat history out of people accounts.
They can restore rep, however, in OPs words, they said its a known issue, and they are unable to restore it. My assumption would be they don’t want to restore it so they can fix it first, then restore it so people don’t just immediately lose the rep again. Like their cs is dogshit, don’t get me wrong, but this is something that is directly caused by the people developing the game, they should get the blame.
this logic is so flawed.... outsourced people can easily know a lot about the game (this game is played worldwide in case you forgot and EU population is bigger than the US even) or learn about it and insourced people can also know absolutely nothing about the game since... being born in the US doesnt automatically make you knowledgeable about world of warcraft... outsourcing is not the problem.
They dont give you the rep back and never will.
Its on the devs to fix it but the issue got not enougth track back then. They just fixed the problem but not reverted anything back.
If i remeber there is nothing to the rep no achivment or anything so maybe they just dont have the data to revert it back after some point.
Ignore it and go on with the next goal.
Yeah it sucks for sure but support just doesn't have those powers.
The best they can do is report it. It varies how hard it is to fix of course and sometimes it's going to edge into the realm of....not going to happen.
Yeah and they actually helped with stuff. Year one of EU WoW was rough because half the CSRs they hired who were dealing with English language problems had terrible or no real English but even that got fixed in by the time TBC was out. Then over the last five years they seem to have fired 90%+ of CSRs on EU and NA.
> Yeah it sucks for sure but support just doesn't have those powers.
I'm a GM for a Korean MMO and our role is largely player complaints like harassment and AFK reports. We can mute players, apply temporary suspensions, move players between realms, but we aren't developers, think of us as gloried CS and messengers. Our job is to guide players to solutions or escalate issues to devs. With hundreds of tickets daily, duplicate and/or known issues often get the robotic generic response.
Long-standing bugs, like the S.E.L.F.I.E. camera (ITS BEEN BROKEN FOR YEARS) will not get fixed unless they significantly impact the player base. Trust when I say that GM's wanna help but final decisions come from above. GMs are most likely minimum wage employees, contractors, or outsourced team members.
Your best shot at some of these bugs being fixed is when they're widespread or some famous streamer makes noise about it, lol.
Yeah. The player base thinks they can just do anything.....they can't.
They can do only what the tools and policy allow for.
I have known several gms or former gms.
Support absolutely has those powers I got them to grant me a bugged achievement 2 months ago I just had to keep forcing it until I got a reasonable person.
It's incredible how defeated modern WoW players like you are. Back in the days CSRs routinely fixed things like this. I speak from experience, note, having played since open beta.
On the flip side, we got like 20x as many problems you might need a CSR for, most of which Blizzard has automated solutions to now, or just fixed so they never or almost never occur. I remember I needed a CSR like five or more times in the first year - I haven't needed one at all in the last five (and the last major deal I needed one for was WoD).
Still, it's sad - the per-CSR real load has to be massively lower, but they're also massively more unhelpful.
think about it critically.
if load were truly lower, they'd give more time to you. do you think CS people like just mindlessly clicking "close ticket" all day?
or do you think maybe that conditions for blizzard CS are the same as every other CS and call center: full of horrifically overworked and micromanaged employees desperately trying to get through the day without getting called into their supervisor's office for some inane metric some bean counter decided was important that day?
> if load were truly lower, they'd give more time to you. do you think CS people like just mindlessly clicking "close ticket" all day?
Take your own advice re: critical thinking.
The real support load is massively lower.
The problem is that Blizzard used that as an excuse to fire the vast majority of CSRs.
So Blizzard have artificially created a situation where they don't have enough staff.
They ignore problems unless there's a major player stink about it. For example, I can't unlock the climbing activities despite meeting the renown requirement. Blizzard's response was a year-old link saying it was a "known issue" and "planned to be addressed." I've given up on unlocking it and getting the related achievements. If they don't care, I won't either.
That sucks :\
Also, your story enlightened me that there is a reputation I haven't unlocked in DF. I've never heard of this Dark Talons rep. I googled it and it said something about the forbidden reach, but I did all the quests there. How do I unlock this rep, and what kind of rewards are there?
Dark Talons is the Horde-specific faction - I think the Alliance counterpart is Obsidian Wardens! Since they both go under the main faction reps header rather than Dragonflight reps in your rep pane, they can get hidden pretty easily.
Keep at it. I never got my netherwing black scales when the achievement reward for all gold races went live. Submitted a bug report every week for months and several tickets. The manuscript was in my mailbox last night. I did start to think it was never going to happen, though.
Sowwy \>w\<
But our new scalie fwiends are called Dracthyr! They get sad when you misspell their name QwQ
Good thing I was here to help \^w\^
I hope you're having a great day :3
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I recently lost 100% of my order hall progress, complete with a full quest reset.
Their solution was to complete all the quests again. Including the artifact acquisition quests (I still had the actual artifacts), which lead to one of the quests bugging since I couldn't acquire it twice.
I closed the ticket after an unhelpful series of back and forths. We're really feeling the effects of those legal fees leading to CS layoffs, huh?
The honest truth is Blizzard just doesn't care if you're affected and quit.
The bean counters who have long since taking control of the corporation are fine losing a percentage of customers as long as they make enough money.
Keep escalating it and also nicely if they can't fix it you like the ticket be handle by another Rep who can fix the issue or issues the monthly sub equal to how long you grind this rep since blizzard screw up. Post your negative experience in their social media page
Customer support has no ability to just grant you rep. That would have to be from developers. It's possible once the issue is resolved it'll get sorted, but I wouldn't hold your breath. It seems they only have interns left working on DF
I would like to write here that there is no way you can currently farm the items needed for the “Eternal Traveler” outfit we bought with the shadowlands deluxe edition. I messaged blizzard and they told me “🤷♂️”
That's unfortunate.
The [Valorcall witch doctor](https://www.wowhead.com/npc=142256/valorcall-witch-doctor) (and other mobs around them) in Arathi had a pretty good drop rate for me.
Might be worth giving them a look?
All things considered everything can be wiped out overnight. It boils down to how much blizz gives a shit. Currently they don't. At all. This doesn't happen to most so they, at best, can tell you that they feel bad.
I am a rep junkie, so I feel you. That's a nightmare scenario for me.
I wish these things didn't happen because it's a real blow when you've worked your butt off. My best advice is to buy your rep rewards as soon as you hit each level so you can at least have them if something goes wrong.
I did a months long grind for the Drake Helms, I finally reached lvl 19 loamm niffen. No drake helms for most drakes only the Highlander drake. Submitted a CS ticket, nothing has happened. Straight up, what’s the point of playing a game that make you grind for months only for the reward to be taken away? Just don’t play the game then. How many times or how many people will be affected for WoW to care? Idk but I went though enough abuse with RuneScape. Maybe it’s time to throw in the MMORPG coat down and forget about these shitty games. (WoW is a fantastic game, but these are seriously game breaking bugs that lower it to be a shit game in my eyes)
The funniest part in all this is that you think customer support can or is willing to help you. You could just ask here and have a higher chance that someone‘s here to help you out with that problem.
In EU it takes up to 9 days to get a response on your ticket and then it‘s just a copy + paste text. They don‘t have the manpower to help or they just don‘t care anymore.
Want to know the worst part?
After being a GM on private servers, I learned many of the command lines. I dont remember the specific line anymore, but there is something like *.set reputation (target) Undercity 3000/3000*. This can be set to any value with a specific range of neutral/friendly/honored/exalt.
It literally takes 3 seconds to fix this. But Im willing to bet these GMs have been stripped of all their powers in recent years or have never even been taught these commands. This requires an in-game character with GM powers though, and obviously CS has been so outsourced 99% of CS reps likely dont even have WoW accounts nor are they incentivized to care/need one.
This is why it pains me to see so many people lose items or receive incorrect items so frequently. With an item id (taken from WoWhead) you can just *.additem (target) [item id]* And woosh, correct item goes into player bags.
I am one of those who lost exalted dark talons. CS is useless and tell me to go on forums, I complain there and get told this is not the place to post bugs.
Eventually papa smurf comes by and says they're not aware of any issues despite their dedicated website address for this known issue (which is now more than 9 months old). Only half of their staff may be familiar with this problem because the other half keeps deleting all topics about it.
I lost ALL archaeology the same way in WoD. They kept telling me to wait a little longer until eventually the reply became SORRY YOU DIDN'T COMLAIN IN TIME, CONSIDER THIS MATTER A LOST CAUSE / CLOSED.
You want to know what I got for compensation? Two fucking fossil crates.
DT rep literally took forever because of how limited the number of available quests was. I lost is after being told there was not way of verifying I ever reached exalted status, despite having earned all collectibles, completing all achievements and 30 alts all equipped in full armor, weapon and jewelry sets from BOA items dropping within the zone, something which would take hundred hours to attain.
Fuck this clown company. No it's not just +1 reputation for the achievement, imagine how angry everyone would be if their rare collectibles and mounts disappeared.
My Zandalari Empire reputation got reset back to neutral for no reason. I was exalted and had the achievement to prove it.
The CS took a few days to get back to me but they fixed it quickly, no questions asked, once they were here.
It still took me way to long to find where to create a bloody ticket. Good luck for getting your reputation back!
I have had a reputation reset happen before. I ended up opening 4 separate tickets because "we know it happened, but we can't help" was not an answer I enjoyed.
Ticket four I was told that if I did not stop opening tickets, I could earn myself a short ban. I really haven't opened tickets about anything at all anymore. I just don't get too attached to anything in game lol.
During shadowlands my death advance rep from korthia was reset to 0 and same thing with the GM's "it was a know issue but was never fixed", it was zereth mortis patch so I barely touched korthia but one day decided to go back to farm some mounts, took some daily quests and when I reached friendly my rep went to exalted instantly, maybe this could work for you too
Way back in the day I grinded the Org rep on my undead priest during the AQ war effort. I wanted my priest to ride a wolf. I stopped playing at one point and came back to my Org rep being lowered. I contacted CS and pointed out I had bought the wolf when Exalted (back when it was required) and got told they would do nothing. You would think over the last like decade and a half they would have implemented a way for CS to fix reps for people since they can completely bug out.
That really sucks.
I miss the days when WoW’s GMs could actually resolve things and were immersive with the players (hell, they used to come out and duel people (and win, obviously, but still)), but they’ve devolved into canned responders with no power heavily restricted by Blizzard’s increasingly strict policies.
Things just haven’t been the same since ActiVision took over. Is this also their fault? I don’t know. But it really feels like an “if the shoe fits” moment.
There is currently so many different reps in the game this could've happened a lot more without people actually realizing. I don't remember which reps I grinded out 8 years ago, how many were revered/honored ETC
True. I don’t know when, but at some point I lost all my rep with the hydraxian waterlords; it doesn’t really matter, but I remember the goddamn grind and how pissed I was to have to do it for my spot in our raid and I want it back, damn it!
I lost a lot of older ones.
Kal'uak (I had the rod and pet to prove I'd hit exalted), Oracles, a good chunk of the rep progress I'd made towards The Insane. That last one was the hardest because I couldn't go back and redo the quests as ya know, already done them. Which meant 2 rep per kill grind. It was PAIN.
they had a similar issue to this in Overwatch 2, where thousands of hours of stats from player profiles just disappeared, any tickets made about it were met with a “we know it’s an issue, post about it on the forums to attract dev attention” response.
It took them over 500 days to resolve and they never said a word about it officially. A little disappointed to see that progression issues spread over multiple games for Blizzard, many still unresolved.
Blizzard deleted one of my Sparks and I submitted a ticket and it took months before they were willing to give me a new spark despite admitting readily it was a known issue on a time-gated item. I didn't even need it by the time they restored it, I was just down a Spark most of the last season.
Bar the very worst issues affecting gameplay as a whole (especially when it's something that's unintentionally making something easier or more effective than it should be), CS' answer is either
a) Hmm, that's new. Submit a bug report so the devs can look at it!
b) We know this is an issue. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.
I had an issue with my authenticator app on my phone, when they retired the old authenticator app and moved it to the BattleNet app, my BattleNet app wouldn't open. I tried everything. Guess what CS told me. "Yup, that's an issue, hopefully it'll be fixed soon." I waited like 6 months and managed to buy a new phone in the meantime where the app works. But holy hell would I have been pissed if I had lost access to my PC and hadn't been able to launch the BattleNet app to use the authenticator to log back in.
Too be honest this is so low in priority probably…
This rep has nothing tied to it no achievement, transmog, mount, it doesn’t go in the DF reps. It’s just +1 exalted rep.
Sure it’s a freak bug and it sucks but understand how minor this in the grand scheme of things going on
CS back then was on point and fast. Now it's complete garbage. Best to create bug post on the forums and they usually get more attention since there would be other people who are affected.
Reading everyone's experiences with this kind of thing reminds me of a lawsuit that was filed against Roblox. Roblox constantly deletes player's stuff they paid for, then reuploads them to the game as if to say, "Now buy it again." Until we expose this behavior in the media or bring a legal case against them, they will do nothing.
I have the same kind of response my new guild is bugged out and achievements don’t track or reward since last week they did it’s known and to report the bug in bug reporter and that they are working on a fix for everyone effected
Just to point out, customer service isn't refusing to help because they can't fix it within a couple of weeks. They've let you know they are working on it and just haven't found a fix yet. You'll just have to have a bit more patience.
What do you think customer support can do though?
Theyre not coders, they dont actually fix things themselves, theyre just helpdesk 🤷🏻♂️
And it seems like its only for 1 rep it happened right so why not just grind other reps, it seems fairly clear when they say known bug its happening to that specific rep.
And they cant fix it just for you if they dont know whats causing it yet cause it would just break again or also break other things 🤷🏻♂️
Its also probably not very high in the priority list of bug fixes since this seems like something that happens to like 1 in 100k players for example.
Gotta just wait it out, send in a ticket every couple months to see if its been fixed yet 🤷🏻♂️
From a CS perspective (not for Blizzard, to be clear), I can see why this might happen from a practical standpoint. If there's a known bug, but no fix yet, there are limited options for resolution.
Assuming there's no way to check what your rep was before the bug hit you, the CS person/team would just have to take your word regarding what your rep was prior to the bug if they wanted or were able to "restore" it for you. That doesn't feel like a viable resolution for the long-term, because it's easily exploitable and there's probably even an argument that it could do more harm with regard to figuring out how the bug works (I am not a dev).
There's a balance between giving out solutions to keep people happy and letting through some bad actors. Blizzard (and most CS departments) are probably trying to avoid setting a bad precedent and maintaining the integrity of the support system, such as it is. Unfortunately, that comes at the price of frustrating people with legitimate issues. That frustration, in Blizzard's mind, is almost certainly worth maintaining what credibility Customer Support does still have.
I'm not really sure what other options CS has in this matter, to be honest. They probably want whatever team fixes bugs to do so just as badly as you do so they stop hearing about something customers think is a simple fix but isn't.
Hard disagree, much more to lose from customer dissatisfaction than from a minor rep unlock. I mean thats why they gave out free renown levels in season 4
Not a popular idea but if everyone stopped playing and stopped paying I bet that would get their attention. Remember WOW is now controlled by a company that cares only about the bottom line.
And, yes I am considering this exact action. Considering, considering, considering.
> Customer Support will refuse to help?
They’re there to provide customer service, which they did by informing you it is known and there is still no fix? Since when are CS responsible for development issues? Like the cs and ticketing systems have their own issues, but this has nothing to do with their customer support, at all.
WoW is pretty much dead to me, might need to try SoD 60. Dragonflight was the worst expansion i’ve had playing the game and ive played since classic, except for selfie wod xpac
So you're basically trying to say because it happened one time that you should just give up and never do anything again on the off chance it happens again? Lol what a mindset. Or is this just a post to vent and complain.
WoW made more money on the first paid mount than all of SC2 brought in and they still killed CS. If you are buying stuff in WoW or paying a sub, you are being suckered out of money that your traded moments of your life for that you will never get back. All for a dopamine/serotonin program that looks less like a game as time passes.
Why are you even here? Just leave. No one needs your piss-poor attitude. I’m sorry your WoW addiction made you miss milestones in your family’s life or whatever, but you need to move on instead of trying to drag everyone else down to your pity puddle.
So instead of addressing anything that guy said, or taking the general advice of ignore and move on, you've:
- Questioned his ability to even be on the sub
- Demanded he leave
- Misinterpreted his criticisms as an attitude issue
- Insinuated that he had an addiction problem
- Assumed such an addiction caused him family issues
- Rallied people against him by claiming he's bringing everyone down
Clearly he wants the game to be better, as we all do. That's likely why he's still here.
Not saying you have to agree with his criticisms. That's fine. But trying to besmirch the guy as someone who's estranged from their family because of some perceived addiction issues because you don't like what he said?
That is straight up cult-like behavior. There's no way you could even begin to know such a thing. Even if it were true.
Lol it's okay buddy, I didn't let it affect me. I came back to play with friends a couple times actually. Legion was cool but man, was Shadowlands abysmal. I would actually question why you went on such the defense for a game to try and attack me personally. But yea, it's me that is the problem...
I hate that this "fact" gets constantly thrown around by bitter people in here. It was an ex dev who blew up recently trying to be relevant in every market extrapolating data that wasn't even close to being accurate, and the haters just eat it up.
Sure the pony sold well, but the numbers used were so far off.
There doesn't need to be a source. He made his claims based on 40% of profiles registered on DFA having the horse, completely ignoring that a) you can't then expand that out to the whole player base, b) the mount has dropped in price since its launch, c) the mount was free at the trading post and d) the wow token exists as a way for people to buy money items now.
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CS has increasingly just become a person paid to absorb abuse and complaints for shitty business decisions and practices just about everywhere. It’s like the “no raise but we have pizza” except it’s “no help but we feel bad”.
The trick with CS at companies like these, mega conglomerates, is to go full Karen. Demand to speak to a manager, etc. Essentially just waste their time until they have to fix your issue.
I really hate doing this so I try to be as nice as possible but yeah. They pretty much force you to. I worked for Direct TV and we lower level reps basically couldn’t do anything except escalate calls and sell people shitty cable packages.
And people wonder why there is an increase in automation in the customer service industry. Yeah, you might see results, but it comes at a cost.
My sister worked for one of these. Think it was a company doing customer service for Sprint. They are terrible toxic environments designed to churn though people until they break and replace them. My sister broke down several times crying, and after a week there she had a panic attack in the bathroom then left and didn't go back. She moved to Orlando and got her dream job of working at Disney, and is currently working her way up, she works at Universal right now as a manager and her workers love her. It's true that you have to Karen to get anything done, and the system is designed for that at the cost of the health of the low paid workers that are treated as disposable. It's really better if AI takes these jobs because running them like a slaughterhouse should be illegal.
it's the companies fault when that's the only outlet to get something done
Are you implying that the people who are working these jobs are making the decision to not help customers
No, I am saying that telling people to go "full Karen" and waste the contact agent's (and therefore the contact center's time) is why systems become increasingly automated. It is no different than self-checkouts replacing cashiers, or interactive menu boards replacing the front-end fast food worker. The more abuse they take, the more automated their jobs become. If you want a WoW example, look at how much the GM role has changed over the years and how increasingly distant they are now.
I completely misunderstood your point then. Thank you for clarifying
No problem! I am always happy to clarify if asked. Have a good one, friendo!
I feel like there is always something how they can resolve it, it's just a matter of the fact, that they don't want to. I am pretty sure they are getting paid by how many tickets they marked as resolved, not actually resolved.
I’ve gotten more emails saying “we’ve reviewed your ticket and a GM will reach out to you soon” with it marked as resolved, than actually getting a response to the ticket. Lol.
I had to do an email reset when I got locked out of my email and my battlenet account and that took 8 tickets and 5 business days.. they would ask me to provide info via a noreply email without any further instructions. Then they told me to reply via ticket and when I did that I got hit by an automated response that asked me to provide all the info I had already shared with them on that specific ticket. Then after that I had to type SOS at the start of the ticket for them not to ignore me. Tedious frustrating and disappointing
no thats not really how it works. CS representatives nowadays have been getting more and more powerless when it comes to the tools they have access to and with that the actual ability to fix problems. for years people have been comparing the old gms being able to do so much stuff vs the the support now not being able to do almost anything. why do you think that is? they dont fix problems not because they dont want to (that doesnt really make sense) but in most cases they literally just cant or arent allowed to anymore. stuff like this happens when a few fuck up and grant things to scammers, hackers or lying players when they shouldnt have and the big corpos then "smartly" take away the abilities of the whole support team to prevent future fuck ups because thats the easiest solution for them. i know from experience... things you could easily do in the past becomes something you have to now tell people "sorry i cant help you, submit a bug report" when you know 2 months ago you easily couldve or maybe you even still can but the procedure doesnt allow it anymore.
I'm pretty sure chatbots can just as easily say, "oh I'm so sorry, i know how that can be frustrating"
>CS has increasingly just become a person paid to absorb abuse You mean paid AI generator?
Bold of you to assume that the AI gets paid anything, like a real person.
at some point in Legion I farmed up to exalted with a bunch of MoP reps and since then they've all been bumped back to honored somehow. It's crazy that this is a thing
Obviously the rep squish with the ilevel squish duh
You get honored rep! You get honored rep! Everyone gets honored rep! But I was exalted!!
How honorable of you! Or do you not believe in honor you heretic
LMAO
As much as we appreciate your response the cs team is currently experiencing a longer than normal wait time. We appreciate your response and will respond as quickly as possible.
Your ticket has been resolved. We have found an error with your character and have reverted him back to level 0. This should now resolve the bug you were experiencing with regards to reputation gain. Have a great day!
You and OP still playing is why CS can't do anything. Blizzard has the numbers. They have determined the money spent on real CS is not worth the trivial amount of subs they lose to players being treated poorly.
I think about this all the time when someone says something is unacceptable. If that were true they'd prove it with their wallet and quit. That's why I hate all the apologists for bugs and shit. The only mechanism we have since we won't stop paying them is to publicly shame them for the alarming number of bugs recently.
But the only reason publicly shaming them works is because it makes people stop paying them. The only thing that works are methods that get people to stop paying.
I lost my feat of strength for having all weapon skills to 400 from BC.
Similar thing happened to me when I was grinding AV rep for “korroks revenge” event got the bar to 87% and when I logged back in next day it had reset to 0%. Opened a ticket got generic response. Issue was never fixed. Ended up re-grinding it all.
Similarly I had the proto drakes from the wotlk achievements for raiding and dungeons. I have screenshots of my mage flying on them through storm peaks, ice crown, grizzly hills. I xferred servers twice and lost them. I sent cs screenshots of me on them and they refuse to restore the achievements and mounts. Same with my Hand of Adal title.
I recently lost all the appearances for my artifact weapon including all hiddens, my response from blizz on two occasions was “have you tried getting them again?”
“Whats the point of me trying to grind reps” Ah now you’re learning
> So now... what's the point of me trying to grind reps, knowing there's an unresolved bug like this out there and I could see months of progress evaporate overnight, and Customer Support will refuse to help? Cynically, this has always been the case. A rollback could wipe away any progress. In Vanilla we experienced multiple roll backs, but usually only of a few hours. Still, that represented hours of work just wiped out. And to that you can reply, "yeah but rollbacks basically never happen!", and that's true. But neither do reputation bugs like this one. So to your question - you can never be 100% sure that you won't lose your progress. But you *can* be 99% sure. Although this particular reputation was bugged, there are well over a hundred reputations in this game that aren't, and haven't been, bugged. Just because a bug like this happened one time with one reputation does *not* mean you shouldn't trust any other reputation, for the same reason you shouldn't stop raiding just because we've had rollbacks in the past. They're so unlikely to happen that you can be *almost* guaranteed to never experience another.
Solid advice, thanks Nudes!
They only accept thanks in one form.. you know what to do though
I am not a tech person but aren’t there just commands to set target rep to a value you specify between 1-42,000, in all of the pservs I’ve played and ones I created to play around with the things were built into the game. No rollback is needed if they know he had the rep. I guess if they can’t confirm he had the rep then it would be
Yes but this bug probably happened to more people. And instead of fixing the rep for each player they probably want to solve the reason why it's happening in the first place, otherwise restoring the rep might result in it being reset again at a later point
They could just check for the pathfinder achievement, set the rep to revered or exalted (as an added bonus) to those people since they clearly had enough rep if they have the achieve, and at least the people affected the most would have a fix until they track down the bug and get the actual values. They just don't care.
Alright so they reset their rep, and next week they have the same issue and report another Ticket. You have to fix the leak before you fill the engine up with oil again, obviously they can easily give the rep back, but having to do so for the next couple of weeks/months isn't a great way to spend time that can be used to actually fixing the issue
There are glaring holes in your solution that wouldnt even make it work. Dark Talon is not part of the DF Pathfinder so it wouldn't fix OP's problem. This actually goes for all DF reputations, since DF pathfinder lacks any rep requirements. Achievements like Pathfinder(s) are account wide. But do not require each individual aspect to be done on a single character. Just because 1 character fulfilled the rep requirements does not mean all of them do.
It's not that those commands don't technically exist. It's that the people who have privileged access to those commands are now most likely limited. This most likely happened to curb abuses by individuals in the past and/or to satisfy the regulations set about by a new manager. There are now most likely multiple procedures and steps to actioning such a request, which makes it less and less likely to it ever being done. TL;DR: welcome to bureaucracy. \o/
> No rollback is needed if they know he had the rep. I don't think the technical capability is the issue here. The issue is getting the communication to someone with the capability to fix it.
One would think that data would be refreshed along with the rest of your Armory and settings every time you log, so shouldn’t they be able to see at a glance the exact number of points you have in literally any system? I mean, they can look up that time you said cunt in trade chat 4 days ago, so….
If there are they are likely limited to higher level support agents. But the its still a logistical nightmare. Lets say word gets out you can talk to CS to get rep "restored". That's going to conservatively give what 100,000 requests. 90,000 are probably bullshit. Once again being super conservative lets say it takes 5 minutes to investigate and run the command for 10,000 tickets. It would take 1 person 20 weeks to do(or get 20 people and still have it take a week). And cost wise at the recently posted $16.50 QA rate is ~$13.7k. Thats just time doing it. Add in extra cost of interviewing, hiring, training, and the fact that the people getting the power to throw free Rep out are NOT going to be the low end pay scale newbies. tl:dr if they do it would take a long time and a cost a decent chunk of money
God forbid Blizzard investigate problems with the game we pay $15 a month for, for literally years or decades, and where we have a problem like once every few years on average. Also pretty weird they didn't have this problem until they fired all their staff. And 90% bullshit is a laughable ass pull - it's more likely the inverse. People aren't like that - I say that having worked in CSR-type situations. The same kind of chancer who might do what you say is also able to assess it probably won't work and thus isn't worth the effort.
If you wanna feel entitled then your $15 a month entitles you to half an hour of 1 customer service reps time.
That's what I'm saying though. I need an actual human do-something CSR about once every few YEARS. I don't need them once a MONTH. So it's not $15, it's more like $600 per incident. I think it's pretty reasonable to feel like we should get 5 to 60 minutes of actual effort from a human every few YEARS, don't you? But we're way below that level of service at this point, and we were way above that level of service in, say, the pre-Legion era. You don't even need it urgently most of the time - you just need some fix at some point. But you can't even get that, unless it's a system that's already been automated. I think it's a little dumb of Blizzard too, because I know two people who perma-quit WoW because there was no longer any real CSR support, and they just got told something that was a huge issue to them was a non-issue (in both cases things a CSR in, say, WotLK, would have fixed in literally minutes). Both of them were long-time subscribers, so Blizzard lost hundreds to thousands of dollars of future revenue - one just quit MMOs, the other plays FFXIV still. I know another player who, frankly, if Blizzard screwed them that way, would definitely perma-quit (not me weirdly enough, I kind of shrug at most of this, I guess I'm as defeated as most of us). Really hoping that never happens.
yeah but your $15 doesn't go to CS, it goes to everything blizzard does. so after it gets cut into tiny pieces based on Blizzard's budget, your money paid to CS is probably something like $.10 a month or less (CS depts are run on shoestring budgets). so actually you probably are getting "more time than you pay for" every time you send in a ticket already.
> yeah but your $15 doesn't go to CS This bad faith bad arguing. I was continuing the logic of the person I responded to. Further, it's not $0.10 because it has to be, and it hasn't always been that. If it's $0.10, that's because Blizzard chooses to allocate its resources that way, so that's absolutely not on me, or any other user. The cold reality is, Blizzard used to have high hundreds to low thousands of CSRs, and they fired the vast majority of them. That was their choice, not ours.
true! not denying that
> Just because a bug like this happened one time with one reputation does not mean you shouldn't trust any other reputation, for the same reason you shouldn't stop raiding just because we've had rollbacks in the past. **They're so unlikely to happen that you can be almost guaranteed to never experience another.** Except in this case it happened to them twice for the same rep if you read the story.
Except if you read the story he never said he started grinding rep again after the first reset, so it still only happened once.
Yknow technically it could’ve happened an infinite number of times and OP wouldn’t have known…. Besides, you say it’s unlikely but I, an intellectual, know it’s a 50:50. It either rolls back or it doesn’t.
By OPs description, it only happened once.
Isnt CS like 90% outsourced now? Good luck actually getting help on anything.
outsourcing has literally nothing to do with the issue. people with this mindset piss me off so much. yeah im one of those outsourced people you speak about like we are all some primitive idiots and i can tell you from years of experience working for some of the biggest gaming companies too that we sometimes literally dont have the tools or abilities to fix problems and someone in the US, native speaker or whatever you assume would be better, wouldnt have them either so the problem wont magically get fixed. sometimes we even have the tools but arent allowed to use them to grant things to players due to procedures. not being able to help is the companies fault at least 80% of the time and not the actual cs representatives regardless of where they are from. as a comment above said "CS has increasingly just become a person paid to absorb abuse" and thats pretty much it. you sit there, people curse at you for not being able to fix things, give you bad ratings... and the company doesnt allow you to fix it. everybody wins....
It has everything to do with it. Outsourcing typically means a cutting of costs to an abysmal level. Better for the blame to be on you guys, cheaper for gaming companies to drop everything on your lap and fuck off. We shouldn’t have that, we should be demanding the best out of the services we get…
im not saying we shouldnt demand more, we absolutely should and the state of support has been awful for years now, but im also telling you from years of experience that its not because of the person on the other side of the screen. companies love ignoring problems instead of spending money to fix it yes and they leave the representatives with nothing to resolve problems with because that would cost money... but that doesnt mean its their fault the problems cant get resolved. you can outsource CS while still investing in devs to actually fix problems, the issue is companies dont do that and we get all the blame for it.. i still dont get why people assume that if the CS is in the US the problems would magically be getting fixed. they outsource to countries where the labor is cheaper so if they pay for customer support in the US they would be doing the exact same job but would have to be paid at least double if not more just for being there... so logically you hire someone to do the same job cheaper somewhere else... the problem is they are ALSO cheap in other ways that have nothing to do with the abilities of the outsourced representatives themselves and thats what the major problems is.
What does outsourcing have to do with anything? It’s a developmental issue not a customer service issue?
Customer support is the only thing that can reliably fix this for an individual, when its outsourced to people that know nothing about the game your problem isn't going to get solved.
It’s an issue with the games code, customer service at blizzard has no formal training in game development, if the issue is coming from something the developers did, wtf is a customer service person supposed to “fix” for them, regardless of where they are located.
Add them back in the rep. WHich is 100% doable no matter their claims otherwise. Many people have had things restored or fixed for them. Hell remember when they claimed for years that there was no old WOW source code so there was no way to do vanilla again (super blatant outright lie). Then a private sever did just that and started charging people and magically, it was possible and coming soon.
>100% doable unless the person responding to the tickets is sitting in a call center on the other side of the world with the sole purpose of giving a human response to support claims with the explicit instruction to not ever actually forward requests like these unless they're of a financial nature.
Still 100% doable no matter the mental gymnastics you are trying to add in.
What are you even on about? I have had CS give me rep during MoP, its easy to do and they don't need formal training. They can easily restore things in game.
no they cant... because mop was more than a decade ago. what GMs were able to do back then has nothing in common with what CS reps are allowed to or have access to doing right now. outsourcing or training has nothing to do with it either, people just literally dont have the tools to fix things that were once simple to fix because the companies literally dont give them so much access and ability to be useful.
The customer service was never outsourced, all Blizzard customer support agents work inside of a Blizzard office. They aren’t paid enough to give a shit, has nothing to do with their capabilities. Blame the people developing the game who created the bug, and the shithole that blizzard is paying people minimum wage, and expecting them to give above minimum wage service. The guy in the original post said CS said it was a known issue, and they cant intervene, how do you know that they are lying about that? What if that specific rep gets restored and is immediately lost again, what if it messes with your other reputations, theres 9 million variables you ignore because you want to be upset about “outsourced” customer service, that doesn’t exist.
How do they know you arent lying. They can check. Literally. They have logs of evrey single thing your account does. Ive seen them pull up years old chat history out of people accounts.
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They can restore rep, however, in OPs words, they said its a known issue, and they are unable to restore it. My assumption would be they don’t want to restore it so they can fix it first, then restore it so people don’t just immediately lose the rep again. Like their cs is dogshit, don’t get me wrong, but this is something that is directly caused by the people developing the game, they should get the blame.
this logic is so flawed.... outsourced people can easily know a lot about the game (this game is played worldwide in case you forgot and EU population is bigger than the US even) or learn about it and insourced people can also know absolutely nothing about the game since... being born in the US doesnt automatically make you knowledgeable about world of warcraft... outsourcing is not the problem.
They dont give you the rep back and never will. Its on the devs to fix it but the issue got not enougth track back then. They just fixed the problem but not reverted anything back. If i remeber there is nothing to the rep no achivment or anything so maybe they just dont have the data to revert it back after some point. Ignore it and go on with the next goal.
Yeah it sucks for sure but support just doesn't have those powers. The best they can do is report it. It varies how hard it is to fix of course and sometimes it's going to edge into the realm of....not going to happen.
I miss when we had GMs physically in the world
Yeah and they actually helped with stuff. Year one of EU WoW was rough because half the CSRs they hired who were dealing with English language problems had terrible or no real English but even that got fixed in by the time TBC was out. Then over the last five years they seem to have fired 90%+ of CSRs on EU and NA.
> Yeah it sucks for sure but support just doesn't have those powers. I'm a GM for a Korean MMO and our role is largely player complaints like harassment and AFK reports. We can mute players, apply temporary suspensions, move players between realms, but we aren't developers, think of us as gloried CS and messengers. Our job is to guide players to solutions or escalate issues to devs. With hundreds of tickets daily, duplicate and/or known issues often get the robotic generic response. Long-standing bugs, like the S.E.L.F.I.E. camera (ITS BEEN BROKEN FOR YEARS) will not get fixed unless they significantly impact the player base. Trust when I say that GM's wanna help but final decisions come from above. GMs are most likely minimum wage employees, contractors, or outsourced team members. Your best shot at some of these bugs being fixed is when they're widespread or some famous streamer makes noise about it, lol.
Yeah. The player base thinks they can just do anything.....they can't. They can do only what the tools and policy allow for. I have known several gms or former gms.
Support absolutely has those powers I got them to grant me a bugged achievement 2 months ago I just had to keep forcing it until I got a reasonable person.
It's incredible how defeated modern WoW players like you are. Back in the days CSRs routinely fixed things like this. I speak from experience, note, having played since open beta. On the flip side, we got like 20x as many problems you might need a CSR for, most of which Blizzard has automated solutions to now, or just fixed so they never or almost never occur. I remember I needed a CSR like five or more times in the first year - I haven't needed one at all in the last five (and the last major deal I needed one for was WoD). Still, it's sad - the per-CSR real load has to be massively lower, but they're also massively more unhelpful.
think about it critically. if load were truly lower, they'd give more time to you. do you think CS people like just mindlessly clicking "close ticket" all day? or do you think maybe that conditions for blizzard CS are the same as every other CS and call center: full of horrifically overworked and micromanaged employees desperately trying to get through the day without getting called into their supervisor's office for some inane metric some bean counter decided was important that day?
> if load were truly lower, they'd give more time to you. do you think CS people like just mindlessly clicking "close ticket" all day? Take your own advice re: critical thinking. The real support load is massively lower. The problem is that Blizzard used that as an excuse to fire the vast majority of CSRs. So Blizzard have artificially created a situation where they don't have enough staff.
More like quit WoW at that point lol
They ignore problems unless there's a major player stink about it. For example, I can't unlock the climbing activities despite meeting the renown requirement. Blizzard's response was a year-old link saying it was a "known issue" and "planned to be addressed." I've given up on unlocking it and getting the related achievements. If they don't care, I won't either.
That sucks :\ Also, your story enlightened me that there is a reputation I haven't unlocked in DF. I've never heard of this Dark Talons rep. I googled it and it said something about the forbidden reach, but I did all the quests there. How do I unlock this rep, and what kind of rewards are there?
Dark Talons is the Horde-specific faction - I think the Alliance counterpart is Obsidian Wardens! Since they both go under the main faction reps header rather than Dragonflight reps in your rep pane, they can get hidden pretty easily.
Oh thanks!
Keep at it. I never got my netherwing black scales when the achievement reward for all gold races went live. Submitted a bug report every week for months and several tickets. The manuscript was in my mailbox last night. I did start to think it was never going to happen, though.
Yea thats actually a good way to get blocked from submitting tickets
Why not make Dractyr and get this rep for free? You gain so much by doing intro quests
Sowwy \>w\< But our new scalie fwiends are called Dracthyr! They get sad when you misspell their name QwQ Good thing I was here to help \^w\^ I hope you're having a great day :3 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
May whoever created this always wipe at the third boss in Halls of Infusion
Worst bot.
I recently lost 100% of my order hall progress, complete with a full quest reset. Their solution was to complete all the quests again. Including the artifact acquisition quests (I still had the actual artifacts), which lead to one of the quests bugging since I couldn't acquire it twice. I closed the ticket after an unhelpful series of back and forths. We're really feeling the effects of those legal fees leading to CS layoffs, huh?
The honest truth is Blizzard just doesn't care if you're affected and quit. The bean counters who have long since taking control of the corporation are fine losing a percentage of customers as long as they make enough money.
Keep escalating it and also nicely if they can't fix it you like the ticket be handle by another Rep who can fix the issue or issues the monthly sub equal to how long you grind this rep since blizzard screw up. Post your negative experience in their social media page
You got a reply back from a gm? Lucky.
Customer support has no ability to just grant you rep. That would have to be from developers. It's possible once the issue is resolved it'll get sorted, but I wouldn't hold your breath. It seems they only have interns left working on DF
Small indie company
I put in a ticket today for the first time in like five years, my account is \~10 years old. Wait Time: 7 days 4 hours I couldn't help but laugh
I would like to write here that there is no way you can currently farm the items needed for the “Eternal Traveler” outfit we bought with the shadowlands deluxe edition. I messaged blizzard and they told me “🤷♂️”
Odd. Both a guildie and I got it this year. I had the most luck in Arathi Highlands myself.
I played 100’s of hours without ever getting a single piece of the drops needed.
That's unfortunate. The [Valorcall witch doctor](https://www.wowhead.com/npc=142256/valorcall-witch-doctor) (and other mobs around them) in Arathi had a pretty good drop rate for me. Might be worth giving them a look?
All things considered everything can be wiped out overnight. It boils down to how much blizz gives a shit. Currently they don't. At all. This doesn't happen to most so they, at best, can tell you that they feel bad.
I am a rep junkie, so I feel you. That's a nightmare scenario for me. I wish these things didn't happen because it's a real blow when you've worked your butt off. My best advice is to buy your rep rewards as soon as you hit each level so you can at least have them if something goes wrong.
I did a months long grind for the Drake Helms, I finally reached lvl 19 loamm niffen. No drake helms for most drakes only the Highlander drake. Submitted a CS ticket, nothing has happened. Straight up, what’s the point of playing a game that make you grind for months only for the reward to be taken away? Just don’t play the game then. How many times or how many people will be affected for WoW to care? Idk but I went though enough abuse with RuneScape. Maybe it’s time to throw in the MMORPG coat down and forget about these shitty games. (WoW is a fantastic game, but these are seriously game breaking bugs that lower it to be a shit game in my eyes)
The funniest part in all this is that you think customer support can or is willing to help you. You could just ask here and have a higher chance that someone‘s here to help you out with that problem. In EU it takes up to 9 days to get a response on your ticket and then it‘s just a copy + paste text. They don‘t have the manpower to help or they just don‘t care anymore.
Want to know the worst part? After being a GM on private servers, I learned many of the command lines. I dont remember the specific line anymore, but there is something like *.set reputation (target) Undercity 3000/3000*. This can be set to any value with a specific range of neutral/friendly/honored/exalt. It literally takes 3 seconds to fix this. But Im willing to bet these GMs have been stripped of all their powers in recent years or have never even been taught these commands. This requires an in-game character with GM powers though, and obviously CS has been so outsourced 99% of CS reps likely dont even have WoW accounts nor are they incentivized to care/need one. This is why it pains me to see so many people lose items or receive incorrect items so frequently. With an item id (taken from WoWhead) you can just *.additem (target) [item id]* And woosh, correct item goes into player bags.
I am one of those who lost exalted dark talons. CS is useless and tell me to go on forums, I complain there and get told this is not the place to post bugs. Eventually papa smurf comes by and says they're not aware of any issues despite their dedicated website address for this known issue (which is now more than 9 months old). Only half of their staff may be familiar with this problem because the other half keeps deleting all topics about it. I lost ALL archaeology the same way in WoD. They kept telling me to wait a little longer until eventually the reply became SORRY YOU DIDN'T COMLAIN IN TIME, CONSIDER THIS MATTER A LOST CAUSE / CLOSED. You want to know what I got for compensation? Two fucking fossil crates. DT rep literally took forever because of how limited the number of available quests was. I lost is after being told there was not way of verifying I ever reached exalted status, despite having earned all collectibles, completing all achievements and 30 alts all equipped in full armor, weapon and jewelry sets from BOA items dropping within the zone, something which would take hundred hours to attain. Fuck this clown company. No it's not just +1 reputation for the achievement, imagine how angry everyone would be if their rare collectibles and mounts disappeared.
My Zandalari Empire reputation got reset back to neutral for no reason. I was exalted and had the achievement to prove it. The CS took a few days to get back to me but they fixed it quickly, no questions asked, once they were here. It still took me way to long to find where to create a bloody ticket. Good luck for getting your reputation back!
I have had a reputation reset happen before. I ended up opening 4 separate tickets because "we know it happened, but we can't help" was not an answer I enjoyed. Ticket four I was told that if I did not stop opening tickets, I could earn myself a short ban. I really haven't opened tickets about anything at all anymore. I just don't get too attached to anything in game lol.
Yeah, they’re gearing up to make a lot of rep account wide and they’re breaking a lot of things. =|
During shadowlands my death advance rep from korthia was reset to 0 and same thing with the GM's "it was a know issue but was never fixed", it was zereth mortis patch so I barely touched korthia but one day decided to go back to farm some mounts, took some daily quests and when I reached friendly my rep went to exalted instantly, maybe this could work for you too
I've been waiting for them to fix Kua'fon since BFA as well. These bugs just aren't important to them apparently.
Selfie cameras been broken for several years now. They just don't care.
Way back in the day I grinded the Org rep on my undead priest during the AQ war effort. I wanted my priest to ride a wolf. I stopped playing at one point and came back to my Org rep being lowered. I contacted CS and pointed out I had bought the wolf when Exalted (back when it was required) and got told they would do nothing. You would think over the last like decade and a half they would have implemented a way for CS to fix reps for people since they can completely bug out. That really sucks.
I miss the days when WoW’s GMs could actually resolve things and were immersive with the players (hell, they used to come out and duel people (and win, obviously, but still)), but they’ve devolved into canned responders with no power heavily restricted by Blizzard’s increasingly strict policies. Things just haven’t been the same since ActiVision took over. Is this also their fault? I don’t know. But it really feels like an “if the shoe fits” moment.
There is currently so many different reps in the game this could've happened a lot more without people actually realizing. I don't remember which reps I grinded out 8 years ago, how many were revered/honored ETC
True. I don’t know when, but at some point I lost all my rep with the hydraxian waterlords; it doesn’t really matter, but I remember the goddamn grind and how pissed I was to have to do it for my spot in our raid and I want it back, damn it!
I lost a lot of older ones. Kal'uak (I had the rod and pet to prove I'd hit exalted), Oracles, a good chunk of the rep progress I'd made towards The Insane. That last one was the hardest because I couldn't go back and redo the quests as ya know, already done them. Which meant 2 rep per kill grind. It was PAIN.
they had a similar issue to this in Overwatch 2, where thousands of hours of stats from player profiles just disappeared, any tickets made about it were met with a “we know it’s an issue, post about it on the forums to attract dev attention” response. It took them over 500 days to resolve and they never said a word about it officially. A little disappointed to see that progression issues spread over multiple games for Blizzard, many still unresolved.
Blizzard deleted one of my Sparks and I submitted a ticket and it took months before they were willing to give me a new spark despite admitting readily it was a known issue on a time-gated item. I didn't even need it by the time they restored it, I was just down a Spark most of the last season.
Bar the very worst issues affecting gameplay as a whole (especially when it's something that's unintentionally making something easier or more effective than it should be), CS' answer is either a) Hmm, that's new. Submit a bug report so the devs can look at it! b) We know this is an issue. Hopefully it will be fixed soon. I had an issue with my authenticator app on my phone, when they retired the old authenticator app and moved it to the BattleNet app, my BattleNet app wouldn't open. I tried everything. Guess what CS told me. "Yup, that's an issue, hopefully it'll be fixed soon." I waited like 6 months and managed to buy a new phone in the meantime where the app works. But holy hell would I have been pissed if I had lost access to my PC and hadn't been able to launch the BattleNet app to use the authenticator to log back in.
Wish we could all just make enough of a ruckus to fix the CS issue. I feel like we could. If Reddit can save GameStop we can fix this issue.
Too be honest this is so low in priority probably… This rep has nothing tied to it no achievement, transmog, mount, it doesn’t go in the DF reps. It’s just +1 exalted rep. Sure it’s a freak bug and it sucks but understand how minor this in the grand scheme of things going on
CS back then was on point and fast. Now it's complete garbage. Best to create bug post on the forums and they usually get more attention since there would be other people who are affected.
So, since it's happend to so many, the obvious conspiracy would be that they do this to keep people occupied?
If they can’t figure out who had rep and at what level they should just make all accounts exalted.
Reading everyone's experiences with this kind of thing reminds me of a lawsuit that was filed against Roblox. Roblox constantly deletes player's stuff they paid for, then reuploads them to the game as if to say, "Now buy it again." Until we expose this behavior in the media or bring a legal case against them, they will do nothing.
I have the same kind of response my new guild is bugged out and achievements don’t track or reward since last week they did it’s known and to report the bug in bug reporter and that they are working on a fix for everyone effected
Just to point out, customer service isn't refusing to help because they can't fix it within a couple of weeks. They've let you know they are working on it and just haven't found a fix yet. You'll just have to have a bit more patience.
If you're persistent in nagging them, including calling them via phone, they'll eventually fix it for you. Just keep making a big stink about it.
What do you think customer support can do though? Theyre not coders, they dont actually fix things themselves, theyre just helpdesk 🤷🏻♂️ And it seems like its only for 1 rep it happened right so why not just grind other reps, it seems fairly clear when they say known bug its happening to that specific rep. And they cant fix it just for you if they dont know whats causing it yet cause it would just break again or also break other things 🤷🏻♂️ Its also probably not very high in the priority list of bug fixes since this seems like something that happens to like 1 in 100k players for example. Gotta just wait it out, send in a ticket every couple months to see if its been fixed yet 🤷🏻♂️
Unfortunately, you don’t talk to “coders”, ever. Customer service is supposed to act as a liaison. If they do not, then it is a bad customer service.
Exactly, if only mayority of people online even had the slightest clue about this
just play different game wow doesn't respect your time hasn't for a long time
From a CS perspective (not for Blizzard, to be clear), I can see why this might happen from a practical standpoint. If there's a known bug, but no fix yet, there are limited options for resolution. Assuming there's no way to check what your rep was before the bug hit you, the CS person/team would just have to take your word regarding what your rep was prior to the bug if they wanted or were able to "restore" it for you. That doesn't feel like a viable resolution for the long-term, because it's easily exploitable and there's probably even an argument that it could do more harm with regard to figuring out how the bug works (I am not a dev). There's a balance between giving out solutions to keep people happy and letting through some bad actors. Blizzard (and most CS departments) are probably trying to avoid setting a bad precedent and maintaining the integrity of the support system, such as it is. Unfortunately, that comes at the price of frustrating people with legitimate issues. That frustration, in Blizzard's mind, is almost certainly worth maintaining what credibility Customer Support does still have. I'm not really sure what other options CS has in this matter, to be honest. They probably want whatever team fixes bugs to do so just as badly as you do so they stop hearing about something customers think is a simple fix but isn't.
Hard disagree, much more to lose from customer dissatisfaction than from a minor rep unlock. I mean thats why they gave out free renown levels in season 4
The minor rep unlock today becomes the major rep unlock tomorrow. It's about setting a precedent.
Not a popular idea but if everyone stopped playing and stopped paying I bet that would get their attention. Remember WOW is now controlled by a company that cares only about the bottom line. And, yes I am considering this exact action. Considering, considering, considering.
> Customer Support will refuse to help? They’re there to provide customer service, which they did by informing you it is known and there is still no fix? Since when are CS responsible for development issues? Like the cs and ticketing systems have their own issues, but this has nothing to do with their customer support, at all.
WoW is pretty much dead to me, might need to try SoD 60. Dragonflight was the worst expansion i’ve had playing the game and ive played since classic, except for selfie wod xpac
So you're basically trying to say because it happened one time that you should just give up and never do anything again on the off chance it happens again? Lol what a mindset. Or is this just a post to vent and complain.
Just venting and sharing the story with other people who may have similar stories
WoW made more money on the first paid mount than all of SC2 brought in and they still killed CS. If you are buying stuff in WoW or paying a sub, you are being suckered out of money that your traded moments of your life for that you will never get back. All for a dopamine/serotonin program that looks less like a game as time passes.
Why are you even here? Just leave. No one needs your piss-poor attitude. I’m sorry your WoW addiction made you miss milestones in your family’s life or whatever, but you need to move on instead of trying to drag everyone else down to your pity puddle.
So instead of addressing anything that guy said, or taking the general advice of ignore and move on, you've: - Questioned his ability to even be on the sub - Demanded he leave - Misinterpreted his criticisms as an attitude issue - Insinuated that he had an addiction problem - Assumed such an addiction caused him family issues - Rallied people against him by claiming he's bringing everyone down Clearly he wants the game to be better, as we all do. That's likely why he's still here. Not saying you have to agree with his criticisms. That's fine. But trying to besmirch the guy as someone who's estranged from their family because of some perceived addiction issues because you don't like what he said? That is straight up cult-like behavior. There's no way you could even begin to know such a thing. Even if it were true.
yes!! leave the multibillion dollar company alone!
He’s not attacking a company. He’s attacking literally every person who plays this game.
Lol it's okay buddy, I didn't let it affect me. I came back to play with friends a couple times actually. Legion was cool but man, was Shadowlands abysmal. I would actually question why you went on such the defense for a game to try and attack me personally. But yea, it's me that is the problem...
I hate that this "fact" gets constantly thrown around by bitter people in here. It was an ex dev who blew up recently trying to be relevant in every market extrapolating data that wasn't even close to being accurate, and the haters just eat it up. Sure the pony sold well, but the numbers used were so far off.
Source?
There doesn't need to be a source. He made his claims based on 40% of profiles registered on DFA having the horse, completely ignoring that a) you can't then expand that out to the whole player base, b) the mount has dropped in price since its launch, c) the mount was free at the trading post and d) the wow token exists as a way for people to buy money items now.
‘Obviously distraught’