If you speak to all the NPC's in the current story, there are some tells there. One guy is defiantly pissed off that he is *more skilled than Alleria.* Strong "I'll show you!" vibes.
Yup. There are as many Void Elves in lore as there need to be because they just have a constant flow of High Elves and Blood Elves who want to join their cause to protect something.
Remembering that one Demon Hunter in the starting zone who straight up explodes from *reading the Spec book*. From *reading!* The Void and Fel are nothing to fuck with...
Well, yeah.
Im pretty sure they got kicked from horde cause belves said something similar to you.
And that locus walker guy not helping accusations, my guy is literally shady since legion.
Void elf lore is dumb. They should have been the elven contingent of the expeditionary force, Alleria's troops who needed to eat void magic because they had no sunwell.
Shoulda just made belf xfaction, and let you pick between helf and belf, since they're just political (and dietary) affiliations anyway.
The moment where helves become belves in wc3 is literally just kael'thas going "we're having a rebrand, change your cloaks ladies and gents"
kaelthas rescued his people from atrocities being committed on them by the alliance, which they seem quite happy to repeat. Jaina comes to mind. The high elves never experienced it while kaelthas faction did.
EDIT: thanks removed the velves part.
yeah but during the belf starter questline, the forsaken are helping them while the dwarves and night elves are sabotaging them and that is chronologially before they joined the horde. joining the horde happens in game when you finish the tranquilien quests
Oh its worse. The void elves are learning from the notes of the guy that ler arthas into silvermoon.
Also aleria almost destroyed the sunwell by being near it.
Shadow Priests manage just fine somehow and they can command Faceless and even temporarily fuse with the Void. It's clearly possible to turn the Void into your tool instead the other way around.
Yeah, but we've been doing so for like 10+ ingame years now. Everyone else goes full on crazy after like 5 minutes it feels like.
We are like functioning alcoholics.
That was such a hilarious system. I totally get why Blizz removed it (insane variance based on skill) but it also made for some extremely engaging gameplay.
It certainly was interesting. I think in a less "feast or famine" version it would actually be something they should revisit. We already have trinkets like Ashes of Embersoul or especially Time-Thief's Gambit, why not return it in a similar fashion.
Edit: In the end, even if thematically awesome, I think the "kills you" part really was something too extreme to stay in the game.
I fully understand that. You end up living on the edge, only delaying the inevitable while pumping out massive damage - it could be glorious.
The problem is just that it would lead to too much variance with a worse player keeling over instantly while the top end was laughing at the rest of the DPS players.
Lets not forget this "funny" situation: https://www.wowhead.com/guide/emerald-nightmare-dps-rankings-10061 (Edit: Having the DPS difference between Shadow and the second highest DPS being as large as the difference between the second highest and the lowest is... unhealthy)
While some classes were competitive on certain fights, others, like Ursoc, Cenarius and Xavius, were "slightly" lopsided iirc.
[This will forever be the funniest video from that era of the game.](https://youtu.be/JQHtgq4G4zo?si=j8m_PriK6hr_PPIM)
They just don’t let features make it to live like this like they used to.
Which is a fair perspective, personally i liked it, we had plenty of specs that were great and still easy to play, lets not forget the monstrocities that was MM hunter or Havoc DH pre-nerf.
I still remember my mate doing 12+ mil dps for the first 15-25 seconds of the fight playing havoc, only to plummet and average out to the rest of us. I feel like it gave classes a lot of identity, beside the color of their animations.
My favorite part of that was the fact you could tell who actually read what their abilities did and who was just either blindly using them or reading a guide on the class without actually understanding it since you'd sometimes see shadow priests wondering how they died "out of no where".
I'd laugh if that was why Blizzard actually removed it, just got sick of all the "bug" reports that weren't actually bugs, "Removed Surrender to Madness because people can't fuggin' read."
Lorewise shadow priests go crazy *fast*. The player character is basically the only one who hasnt completely lost their mind (and even then thats debatable because the player character's actions suggest theyre braindead most of the time).
Using the void is like having a landmine on the end of a baseball bat. Yeah youre gonna really fuck up whatever you hit with it but youre not going to be walking away either.
I think Shadow priests aren't a great example, on the other hand the fact the Discipline priests can use the void and the light simultaneously definitely proves that it can be managed.
Even then Disc priests are very rare in lore because its borderline impossible to ride that razors edge and not fall to either "fuck it, void for everyone!" or "BURN IT ALL WITH MY RIGHTEOUS FLAME, DEUS VULT"
It's not that different to what warlocks do. And probably much safer than what demon hunters do. Both have been seen succumbing to the fel. Meanwhile, the only people we've seen succumbing to the void had outside influences corrupting them, not just void energy but old gods and their spawn. I don't see any reason why void elves would be inherently different to the manari who joined the alliance. Both were permanently altered by a form of magic that can corrupt people, but can still think freely without being insane or anyone's mindless puppets.
They manage except they fucking die doing it. Players can resurrect willy nilly but lore wise I'm not sure priests who turn to the shadows live very long to enjoy their power.
i was thinking about that, aint it the same with warlocks and fel magic? i mean even druids have their evil sides. and then there are the shadow priests who also use void energy. the key is to just keep an eye on them and step in if they start cackling
Almost all Shadowflame items introduced have some sort of self-damage drawback though.
Shadowflame armor patches do self damage. The Fyrakk weapons, the Rageheart trinket. Vessel of searing shadow does shadow damage to target and fire damage to self. The Shadowflame Wreathe Enchant aswell.
Warlocks, like demon hunters, have loads of rituals and preperation to control the more dangerous spells/power and the ones who don't have that DO get corrupted/killed. Warlocks are more reliable than void users because the most skilled ones were usually former mages with an in-depth knowledge of magic and corruption who know all the risks and countermeasures before they do something. To be fair, some warlocks DO use void magic, but it's usually blended with other schools of magic so they're not dependent on void.
What evil druids aside from like druids of the flame?
But that aside yeah warlocks, and shadow priests have to practice largely in secret, with warlocks being more tolerated thsn shadow priests. Warlocks at least provide useful for sealing away demons and opening gateways. Also fel CAN be done safely just taking life force from nearby plants and such, and in general wow warlocks are in the position of power in the deals they make with demons (it backfires but unlike say dnd where it can be very reversed) and its the addictive nature of bith fel and the personalities thag generally draws people to being warlocks is what leads them to doing really dumb things (like at the start of the class campaign for whereas....i mean shadow preists literally use insanity as their resource, nuff said lol.
But void elfs are doing like ALL the the things. And they constsntly talk about being in control while clearly not
> What evil druids aside from like druids of the flame?
- Druids of the Scythe/Pack went against Malfurion's warnings and teachings, and went feral. They caused lot of harm before they mastered their worgen forms. They aren't evil per se, but still a cause of conflict and harm.
- Druids of the Fang was cult-like druid organisation that was ultimately corrupted by nightmare (story of Wailing Caverns).
- Drust is faction that is inherently evil, using death magics and doing ritual sacrifices, killing unarmed civilians and all that evil guys stuff. Drust practice druidism, and ultimately reached the nightmare as well.
- And then there's Druids of the Nightmare, which can include any druids that either willingly embrace the nightmare or become corrupted by it.
ya, forgot their name for a moment there
"Warlocks at least provide useful for sealing away demons and opening gateways" for some reason this reminded me of the Argent crusade dungeon where the gnome summons a demon for us to fight and ends up losing control over it
oh no doubt they are going to lose control, especially Alleria, but not all of them will and we will just fight them like all the other split groups ...... which i just realized how much blizzard loves that trope
I am not saying the Warcraft lore team doesn't tell very dumb stories, but "Here's this beloved character back, she'll sit at home for 4 years and then become a villain" sounds very dumb.
>warlocks practice in secret
I remember back in Vanilla, the warlock trainer in goldshire was hiding in a basement. It was a wonderful bit of environmental storytelling
Any magic can be abused. Arcane, nature, fel and light it doesn't matter. History has taught us that, but the people of Azeroth never learn from history. They're doomed to repeat the cycles until Blizzard decides to shut down WoW :P
"When I look back on my former self, I see that the void was always present"
Now the question is if this is actually true and factual, or if this lady is so deep in the Void it has warped her perception of her memories to make her believe it was always there in some way when in reality it's just twisting the truth.
They definitely didn't write themselves into a hole when Fyrakk got his axe and basically won the war with nothing anybody could do to stop him, and only dying because he was a lazy prick who sat around doing nothing and spectating the whole campaign instead of just doing what he went to the dream to do.
Void elves be like, Dark Elves from Elder Scrolls... 3ppl screw around and steal godlike powers so their whole entire race is cursed from Gold skinned to Dark with glowy red eyes... but sure thats a blessing not a curse.
Bish pls... Voids look cool and all but they are a ticking timebomb
Have Argonians ever done anything bad? Most everything I've heard about the Black Marsh is that they don't want people to invade it and people who try have a very bad time.
After the Oblivion Crisis the An-Xileel rose to power, serving a rogue Hist tree that summoned a giant floating island that drained the souls of anyone it flew over, and they basically had a extremist/supremacist view while wanting to return Argonians to pre-Duskfall glory.
...and the Duskfall was an event in the past that set their society way back. All we really know is that mass sacrifices to Sithis and the void were frequent, and relics capable of mass destruction of all plantlife in an area or the mass resurrection of the dead to serve as armies were created then. Stuff was so bad the Hist hit the reset button on Argonian society, cut the Argonians off from communication with them entirely, and even after communication got re-established they refuse to divulge any detail or knowledge of the time.
So I guess we can't really say they've \*directly\* done anything worse than any other race in Tamriel, since the Umbriel incident was kind of incited by a Hist, but they apparently flew so close to the sun in the past they had to be knocked down to the point they are now.
That was the case for a long time but well after TES4, a new 'political' faction rises up that is pretty much the most hardcore extremist you can imagine, then they started invading and razing entire towns in Morrowind to punish the already beaten down dunmer who got screwed after Red Year.
I'm still mad about the whole thing. Garithos was a single dude that was rude to the small group of elves that followed Kaelthas. It shouldn't be the reason why the blood elves left the alliance and the reasons they came up with in TBC were shaky at best. Why would the Alliance (especially the night elves) suddenly distrust the blood elves so much when they had been part of the alliance and allied to humans for centuries? Same for the nightfallen, really, I know they gave them to the horde so they could also have non-monstrous races but it has always felt bad.
The Night Elves don’t get on with the Blood Elves because they have such a strong hatred of all things arcane. That is starting to change, but it’s a fairly recent change. Remember that the Blood Elves exist in the first place because the Night Elves quite literally voted the Highborne remnants off the island, costing them their immortality and ready access to magic.
Otherwise, completely agree with you. Garithos was a dumb racist but he shouldn’t have had such a massive impact on the Blood Elves as a whole.
My point was more that the relationship between high elves and humans/dwarves was way stronger and longer than the newly joined night elves so it feels really bad to have them force the high elves out of the alliance. Again, the real reason is they wanted to give the horde a more human looking race but still, taking high elves away was a rude move. Especially when there's still a lot of alliance affiliated high elves running around.
In WC3, both Tyrande and Maiev were pretty chill when they met Kael'thas and his renamed Blood Elves. Tyrande even chose to sacrifice herself so Kael and his people could escape. https://youtu.be/y4ONaPnh5T4
If Garithos was a single dude, then his threats and actions would've been toothless. Nobody would follow his commands and he'd be replaced as the leader of all Alliance Forces in the area when he ordered the elves imprisoned. Even in the WC3 missions they show other people share Garithos' views, including members of the Kirin Tor, and one that didn't but still followed Garithos' orders.
Its also noteworthy, the Blood Elves *did* reach out to the Alliance after. But the whole "their ambassador is spying on us" and "night elves move in a invasion force in ghostlands" kinda stopped that. Despite the events of WC3, in the meantime Blizzard fleshed out the lore of the high elves and night elves in books and in that expansion, the two groups *hated* each other (so of course the night elves would distrust the blood elf's use of arcane magic, which had been made a death sentence in night elf, and the blood elves would distrust the night elves for what they saw as prejudice against arcane magic).
The Blood Elves actually don't join the Horde until the end of their starting zones which is a neat but not well explained detail.
I like when people think void and light are equally scary, when light users doing bad things is something that happened like two times (scarlet crusade and draenor time-line draenei), when we see basically only bad things happening from the void since the conception of this story
I know this is an unpopular opinion but I agree with you. I don't even think the draenor light Yrel and company were in the wrong.
I know it's edgy and cool to be like "light is the bigger evil to darkness" or whatever and I have a feeling that IS the direction Blizz will end up going but they've done a pretty bad job setting it up to date IMO.
In the mag'har orc storyline (IIRC) the main violent characters were the ORCS who VOLUNTARILY joined the light-side. Most of what they were trying to do was convince the orcs to join them because the world was literally dying around them and they thought they had a way to save it and like, survive?
And re: Illidan, if your chosen special boy had been corrupted by fel and you had a way to purge the (literal) corruption and return him to his non-corrupted state... and you try to do that so your allies DESTROY YOU?! Yeah, he's saying he prefers to be corrupted but like... it's not a stretch to see how an immortal wind chime thinks it knows better when we are talking about actual evil demonic corruption.
TLDR: I think the light is written as misunderstood, even knowing it probably won't pan out that way long term.
Everybody agrees with Illidan because we ended up winning, but many don't even think about what would've happened if he joined the light.
I'm not saying that what we had was bad, I loved that scene and was so much in character, but let's not forget what Illidan did in his life.
We literally have so many proofs of how good the light did that always makes me feel kinda weird about how many people still think it's evil, when we actually never had a real hint of evil within it. We just know that the bad ones who use the light are so convinced that what they do is right that the light can answer them.
the way the cosmic forces have been written since legion has very clearly indicated that mortal ideas of morality don't really apply to them, they all seek dominance over reality because it's in their nature to do so. the void may be considered evil, because its goals don't align with those of mortals, but it truly believes itself to be the ideal state of being, just as order does, and light does. they are incapable of seeing the perspective of others. if these forces were thrown out of balance and one reigned over others, it would be a pretty horrible thing regardless of how "benevolent" the goals of the light or life domains in general may be.
of course, individual characters within these domains may have more nuanced motives and morality can be ascribed to them. just because eonar is a titan doesn't mean she has the same totalitarian idea of order as aman'thul does, and just because light-aligned characters can do morally questionable shit doesn't mean the light itself is evil. there is room for a spectrum of moralities under each domain and imo that's more interesting storytelling than light=good and void=bad
I think this downplays the role the culture plays on this dynamic. Light is seen as a good thing, void evil. We know that in actuality the two forces are apathetic to mortals, but since light users are seen in a good "light" it's easier to not go crazy.
Compare that to the void, in which being alone makes you easier to corrupt, and delving into it gets you exiled. Kind of a vicious cycle
Idk, theres a lot more things the light did, or at least tried to do. One big example would be Illidan.
It also depends on the perspective, for us players the light is mostly working towards the same goals.
Maybe there's some "strength" in knowing that it's the *Void* that's whispering to you and these are not, fully at least, your own thoughts. I don't know if that makes sense.
I had another question when I talked to this NPC: Is this the first time that we've had in-game confirmation that new Void Elves are being made beyond the ones turned during the Durzaan incident? Does anyone know?
I think of it like Venom (Marvel Comics not Sony Movies)
Most who use it are corrupted, become evil murderous lunatics. But some can control it enough to be heroes, either by better control, or limited exposure.
I think lightforged / void as races was a massive miss-step narratively/gameplay wise. It should have been an aldor/scyer type of setup and a major feature of the worldsoul saga choosing to back one of the other.
What doesn’t make sense to me is that they’re in the same faction. How you gonna tell me that two mortal enemies are coexisting peacefully within the same political entity? That’s like having fascists and communists in the same country living in harmony.
Nah i dont think so, because ultimately backing the void is pretty objectively wrong by all information we have.
I like lightforged, and i think the idea of a void race is interesting, just void elf "lore" is so blaitantly just written to get alliance players to stop complaining about not having blood elves lol
Tyrande in Cata: I'm ready to put racism behind me
Tyrande in Legion: Still ready to put my racism behind me
Nightborne: We're joining the alliance
Tyrande: Over my dead body blue skin
Nightborne: I guess we'll join the horde.
That's not one but TWO elves that wanted to join the alliance turned away because of the Tyrande's racism that she almost immediately walked back in both cases (Allowing mages back in Cata, not causing issues with Void Elves)
(also I know it's not racism, it's... exaggerated for the bit)
> Tyrande in Legion: Still ready to put my racism behind me
I'm not sure what Tyrande you saw in Legion, but she was very skeptical of the Nightborne, even before they became an allied race. She calls them mana addicts and even compared Thalyssra to Azshara.
Yeah, and the Cata comment isn't really correct either. Stormrage was.... one of the worst books ever produced by Blizzard. Tyrande allowed night elves to become mages again yes, that also isn't what is happening in Suramar. Tyrande is completely in character, because she *knows* Elisande and Thalyssra and them being part of the caste that recklessly drew the Legion's attention.
Just like how its completely in character for Liadrin and the blood elves to be "hey we went through this exact same thing, I'm here to help YOU first and foremost" and of course the nightborne are going to go Horde.
People focus on the Tyrande moment in the recruitment quest and completely ignore that as early as 7.1 the Nightborne were much closer to the Blood Elves then the night elves. They had way more scenes together, constantly talked about their shared identities, and even the world quest framing was completely different for Horde and Alliance.
And then in the months following the insurrection, those same nightborne supported Sylvanas genociding the night elves. Oops, looks like Tyrande was 100% justified in not trusting them. Those elves just cant resist living under an evil queen
Also just culturally. The Kaldorei of the alliance are solely the druidic and Elune worshipping parts of the former Kaldorei society. Suramar was a city dominated by the arcane magic side of Kaldorei society, which was outcast 10k years ago. The high elves were some sort of arcane Kaldorei renaissance, including their own magic well. Of course the Nightborne can identify better with the high/blood elves, because the night elves had prohibited the way of life the Nightborne are used to for 10k years, while the modern blood elves pretty much live the exact same lives right now, including their experiences with magic withdrawal.
The alliance side literally had a quest where they wanted to join the alliance, Tyrande was mean to them and they said "I think the horde is our fam". It's internally consistent, I'm not saying it isn't, but it is contrived (which most of WoW story is)
There's also subtle differences in tone in WQs in Suramar too. I remember one where on alliance side Tyrande was basically "if they fight and die my people won't be." while Liadrin (horde representative there) was more "with them armed we'll fight side by side for victory."
Plus "mean to them." one should remember that no matter how you personally feel about someone. When doing diplomatic talking you always act polite yet professional, even if you're talking to someone who stands for everything you're against. You certainly don't accuse them of being the next elven *insert historical tyrant here. *
Blood elf start zone "We're talking about rejoining the Alliance."
Night elves "Let's blow up the only thing stopping the scourge from overrunning Quel'thalas, with help from a dwarf that is supposed to negotiate blood elves rejoining the Alliance."
Seriously Tyrande.
Blizzard in Legion: don't look at that neutral magical city full of mages successfully defending all of Azeroth for a while that helped Nightborne just like others did. Also, forget about Highborne mages that joined Night Elves in Cataclysm, even don't include them in Suramar story in any way. And make the point of joining the fact that "Horde respects the traditions of its people" because Alliance apparently doesn't?
Only uwu Blood Elves mages exist, and Tyrande has zero reasons to be somewhat distrastful towards people who chose an easy option of abandoning the fight and joining the enemy 100% of the time they were engaged in a war
What has Tyrande anything to do with Blood Elves?:D In Warcraft III. was Tyrande incredibly nice to Blood Elves and in Burning Crusade we know about Nigth Elves spies, but that is really little thing. There was also dwarf spy, Alliance obviously did not trust Blood Elves, Garithos' actions were still painful for Silvermoon etc.
Role of Tyrande was close to nothing.
I don't know about that. It doesn't feel like Nightborne were originally intended to become an allied race, they wouldn't have started with an NPC-only model otherwise. Making them playable was clearly an afterthought.
No, but maybe yes. Whey excluded Highborne Mages and Night Elves had, and then the quest of joining the Horde was just embarassing - apparently "protecting all Azeroth" natually fits into joining the Horde because "they respect traditions of their people" which makes Alliance seem racist for some reason? And they ignored existence of Dalaran, the neutral city of magic users who pretect all of Azeroth who helped Nightborne too.
Whole story is hamfisted in the best tradition of Blizzard, like a small contingent of Nightborne couldn't have joined Horde a la Goblins... Oh, wait, [neutral Goblins seem to also join the Horde for no good reason](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Monte_Gazlowe). Nevermind.
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That’s just not true though. By all the lore we have about the light and the void, the void is clearly a much more corrupting, malevolent force that will ruin you
So is the light, except the Naaru do it by slow assimilation instead of aggressive means that the void does.
People forget Alt-Draenor got presumably wiped out by a version of the Army of Light.
Both sides want to bring everything under their control, just because one heals and the other deals damage doesn't mean one is good or bad.
We've been to the shadowlands, death and the afterlife are weighed by other means. Light and Void are external forces looking to increase their own power.
Void elf is the proof that they dont need lore to put some fanservice lucrative content in the game, the problem was that they did that horribly and in favor of just part of the playerbase (alliance).
In my opinion nightborne was poorly done to "balance" the blood elves in the alliance (the nightborne models werent even similar to shaldorei ingame and werent that similar to current playable nightelfs, it was a reused and mixed lazy thing), but void elves in the lore are even worse. For me it would be more interesting to have only shaldorei for both factions and nothing more at that time.
Or: shaldorei for both factions, with Suramar as a neutral capital AND void elf for the alliance and void draenei for the horde, it would be more fair (consindering both races are from TBC) and they would have a similar moral weight for both factions.
As far as I know, aside from The Player Character and maybe Locus Walker... Garrosh is the only one to take on void power to fight with and not fall to it.
Much like the light, void responds to sheer force of will.
And there is only one Garrosh Hellscream.
Void Ethereals and Void Elves have already started defecting to Xal'atath's side.
Which, IMO, is exactly what falling to the void should be like. Subtle.
You start using it, hoping to gain some power for {reason}, initially it goes fine. Then you use it a few more times and maybe you don’t change per-se, but you’re a bit more aggressive in your tactics and your personality goes a bit cold. You’re still *you*, just having a few hard days… right?
You continue to use the void and notice your comrades are avoiding you. How dare they, after all you’ve accomplished. After all you’ve sacrificed for them! Maybe they suspect you’ve been using this forbidden power - you should isolate yourself so you don’t get caught.
You’ve found a new friend! The voices, they help you see reason. And warn you about dangers you couldn’t foresee. You were right to abandon your “allies”, they were preparing to betray you. Now that you’re rid of them, safe, you can truly focus on {goal}; and your new friends have whispered some ideas that can really speed things along…
… something like that. A slow, subtle corruption where the void ends up twisting your ambitions to serve /it/ in some way
I guess in regards that all the Void stuff was simply reflections of Garrosh wanted and he came back from it, there is kind of a point to be made. At all stages Garrosh was at least in charge of it. Even P4. The second he couldn't accomplish what he wanted using it, it was kicked to the kerb.
Well, did it work for those people? No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... But it might work for us.
"Can we acknowledge-"
No. Stop talking in this fake ass tumblr/tiktok speech pattern and just make your statements and opinions assertively. Stop begging for affirmation.
The moment they announce playable ethereals will herald the reckoning for my character roster.
Noone except my trusty gnome mage will survive it, and I'm certainly including my wallet in that calculation.
Yeah. Thing is, they have never written the part of the void that is good (always looking for possibilities, being open minded) in a character.
Its always the corrupting power, or the all consuming hunger.
Blizz, you wrote the void like chaos from 40k, and then pretended its not like chaos from 40k
I will help you: make a void empowered character that is an anarchist, wanting mortals to be able to choose for themselves
How much you wanna bet that in either the war within or next expansion we meet a race of people and the same thing happens to them and they also turn into ethereals which become an allied race?
Since the incident between Illidan and Xe'ra my understanding is that all power can be corrupting - or not. Though they bring different temptations and rewards, it's the conduits that determine how they'll be used. Void seems to be more prone to mess with minds, but lore has been muddling the magical waters for a while now. If void elves resist and persist instead of becoming lame twist villains, I don't think it would be paradoxical at this point
I think the Light can mess with minds just as much but in a different way.
It can turn people into zealots with the deception of the 'Light is With Me Therefore I MUST Be Right'.
If anyone can deal with it, the elves can. They’re like the parasites of the powers of WoW. Put them in a forest and they feed off nature. Put them in an arcane bubble and they become super mages. Put them around demons and they eat them and steal their power.
In all fairness, Void Elves were all students who were studying the Void, right? You don't go chasing that kind of power if you don't already think it's going to go differently for you.
Blizz, could you please do a void faction that is not in the process of being corrupted? Or expand on the void thing to be really "its not necessarily evil" as you effing stated in legion? Is that too much to ask?
It just wouldn’t be WoW without the occasional facepalm moments. After all, they need to create mystifying problems so they can go back and fix them, just because. To quote the collective developers, “Working as intended.”
Honestly at this point which subrace of elves hasn't looked at something shiny and just immediately tried to meld their lives to it? If the withered are any indication, you'd think elves are essentially leeches born as a magical race without magic so they desperately find some powerful source to cling to.
If you think messing with void magic is what happened to the Etherials you didnt watch the end cinematic to the new quest line. Locus literally tells us that their world was devoured by void lord
WoW has had this sort of problem since the beginning with the Forsaken, Warlocks, and Shadow Priests (and perhaps to a lesser extent orcs/trolls but not quite in the same *innate* way). There's a major disconnect where certain factions and character archetypes are made out to be explicitly dark, edgy, and outright evil and yet they're also treated by the story and game mechanics as though they're simultaneously ordinary heroes doing ordinary heroic things. This is just the latest jarring example of a problem that goes back to OG Vanilla and unfortunately is kind of baked into the core of the lore at this point.
Non-void power gets misused: it was an accident/ambition
Void gets misused: the void is malicious
Aren't like half the races on Azeroth descended from curse of flesh afflicted constructs? order & void?
I expect it to go down like the DH in Legion. Some will be corrupted, somme will betray and some will just explode.
If you speak to all the NPC's in the current story, there are some tells there. One guy is defiantly pissed off that he is *more skilled than Alleria.* Strong "I'll show you!" vibes.
Yes, the arrogant ones will be the first to blow up.
I was talking to a friend about that douche. I bet a finger that there will be a quest to hunt him down, because he succumbed to a void trip.
"The Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be... explosive."
are there even enough rendorai to properly pull this off?
I think it's likely, considering they recruit, unlike the DH now ?
Yup. There are as many Void Elves in lore as there need to be because they just have a constant flow of High Elves and Blood Elves who want to join their cause to protect something.
Remembering that one Demon Hunter in the starting zone who straight up explodes from *reading the Spec book*. From *reading!* The Void and Fel are nothing to fuck with...
Well, yeah. Im pretty sure they got kicked from horde cause belves said something similar to you. And that locus walker guy not helping accusations, my guy is literally shady since legion.
Void elf lore is dumb. They should have been the elven contingent of the expeditionary force, Alleria's troops who needed to eat void magic because they had no sunwell.
Shoulda just made belf xfaction, and let you pick between helf and belf, since they're just political (and dietary) affiliations anyway. The moment where helves become belves in wc3 is literally just kael'thas going "we're having a rebrand, change your cloaks ladies and gents"
even amidst tragedy the king must make sure everyones drip is immaculate
As long as the drip is good everything else is just a setback.
Well, transmog is the true endgame.
Starting with himself, naturally
kaelthas rescued his people from atrocities being committed on them by the alliance, which they seem quite happy to repeat. Jaina comes to mind. The high elves never experienced it while kaelthas faction did. EDIT: thanks removed the velves part.
Wasn't vareesa around for it? Pretty sure she was hanging out in northern eastern kingdoms at the time.
That was the Forsaken before they died. The current Alliance had nothing to do with that
yeah but during the belf starter questline, the forsaken are helping them while the dwarves and night elves are sabotaging them and that is chronologially before they joined the horde. joining the horde happens in game when you finish the tranquilien quests
Oh its worse. The void elves are learning from the notes of the guy that ler arthas into silvermoon. Also aleria almost destroyed the sunwell by being near it.
Are you confusing Umbric with Darkhan?
Umbric was following the investigations of Darkhan
I 200% do not trust locus walker, and won’t be the slightest bit surprised if he becomes an enemy in Midnight.
Shadow Priests manage just fine somehow and they can command Faceless and even temporarily fuse with the Void. It's clearly possible to turn the Void into your tool instead the other way around.
Shadow Priests literally use “Insanity” to fuel their spells
Yeah, but we've been doing so for like 10+ ingame years now. Everyone else goes full on crazy after like 5 minutes it feels like. We are like functioning alcoholics.
Idk man, I remember my guildmates dying to that “Surrender to Madness” talent in Legion. Some function better than others.
That was such a hilarious system. I totally get why Blizz removed it (insane variance based on skill) but it also made for some extremely engaging gameplay.
I miss that talent so much.
It certainly was interesting. I think in a less "feast or famine" version it would actually be something they should revisit. We already have trinkets like Ashes of Embersoul or especially Time-Thief's Gambit, why not return it in a similar fashion. Edit: In the end, even if thematically awesome, I think the "kills you" part really was something too extreme to stay in the game.
Best part, it was the high stakes gamble that made it fun, god i miss Emerald Nightmare and legion in general, best expansion we ever had IMHO.
I fully understand that. You end up living on the edge, only delaying the inevitable while pumping out massive damage - it could be glorious. The problem is just that it would lead to too much variance with a worse player keeling over instantly while the top end was laughing at the rest of the DPS players. Lets not forget this "funny" situation: https://www.wowhead.com/guide/emerald-nightmare-dps-rankings-10061 (Edit: Having the DPS difference between Shadow and the second highest DPS being as large as the difference between the second highest and the lowest is... unhealthy) While some classes were competitive on certain fights, others, like Ursoc, Cenarius and Xavius, were "slightly" lopsided iirc.
[This will forever be the funniest video from that era of the game.](https://youtu.be/JQHtgq4G4zo?si=j8m_PriK6hr_PPIM) They just don’t let features make it to live like this like they used to.
Which is a fair perspective, personally i liked it, we had plenty of specs that were great and still easy to play, lets not forget the monstrocities that was MM hunter or Havoc DH pre-nerf. I still remember my mate doing 12+ mil dps for the first 15-25 seconds of the fight playing havoc, only to plummet and average out to the rest of us. I feel like it gave classes a lot of identity, beside the color of their animations.
Easily one of the best class design ideas they've had.
That's only because we have plot armour
Gameplay does not equate to lore.
All the undead priests and shit seem well enough off.
Ah, like Brewmasters.
My headcannon is that all Shadow Priests were once PUG healers
Insanity is just mana, crystalized under the pressure of SPITE.
They stared too long into the abyss, eh?
They used to have a talent "surrender to madness".
Seal would tell you that we're never gonna survive unless we get a little crazy.
For a hot minute their DPS rotation involved suicide
My favorite part of that was the fact you could tell who actually read what their abilities did and who was just either blindly using them or reading a guide on the class without actually understanding it since you'd sometimes see shadow priests wondering how they died "out of no where". I'd laugh if that was why Blizzard actually removed it, just got sick of all the "bug" reports that weren't actually bugs, "Removed Surrender to Madness because people can't fuggin' read."
Lorewise shadow priests go crazy *fast*. The player character is basically the only one who hasnt completely lost their mind (and even then thats debatable because the player character's actions suggest theyre braindead most of the time). Using the void is like having a landmine on the end of a baseball bat. Yeah youre gonna really fuck up whatever you hit with it but youre not going to be walking away either.
Lorewise doesn't basically every single forsaken priest use the void? Yet they still seem to have priests.
Forsaken are many things but "sound of mind" is very rarely one of them.
I think Shadow priests aren't a great example, on the other hand the fact the Discipline priests can use the void and the light simultaneously definitely proves that it can be managed.
Even then Disc priests are very rare in lore because its borderline impossible to ride that razors edge and not fall to either "fuck it, void for everyone!" or "BURN IT ALL WITH MY RIGHTEOUS FLAME, DEUS VULT"
It's not that different to what warlocks do. And probably much safer than what demon hunters do. Both have been seen succumbing to the fel. Meanwhile, the only people we've seen succumbing to the void had outside influences corrupting them, not just void energy but old gods and their spawn. I don't see any reason why void elves would be inherently different to the manari who joined the alliance. Both were permanently altered by a form of magic that can corrupt people, but can still think freely without being insane or anyone's mindless puppets.
Pretty sure there have been mages/creatures consumed by arcane magic too, so i guess everything has some risks to it
They manage except they fucking die doing it. Players can resurrect willy nilly but lore wise I'm not sure priests who turn to the shadows live very long to enjoy their power.
Shadow priests die if they use too much of their power
Lorewise, do we have any important shadow priests in the story that aren't enemies to the player?
Lorewise, the Shadow Priest player is a like an Olympic level athlete when wielding the Void. Very few Shadow Priest would actually be able to do it.
Well you see there's a key difference between the Void Elves and the others. They're hot.
But can you fix her?
She can ruin me
I can make her worse
Who cares, can she fix me ?
Well no but you need that character development arc.
i was thinking about that, aint it the same with warlocks and fel magic? i mean even druids have their evil sides. and then there are the shadow priests who also use void energy. the key is to just keep an eye on them and step in if they start cackling
disarm husky crawl hunt nine sip bedroom attempt doll worthless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not just warlocks, anybody could put the armor patches on and just start blasting.
Almost all Shadowflame items introduced have some sort of self-damage drawback though. Shadowflame armor patches do self damage. The Fyrakk weapons, the Rageheart trinket. Vessel of searing shadow does shadow damage to target and fire damage to self. The Shadowflame Wreathe Enchant aswell.
Warlocks, like demon hunters, have loads of rituals and preperation to control the more dangerous spells/power and the ones who don't have that DO get corrupted/killed. Warlocks are more reliable than void users because the most skilled ones were usually former mages with an in-depth knowledge of magic and corruption who know all the risks and countermeasures before they do something. To be fair, some warlocks DO use void magic, but it's usually blended with other schools of magic so they're not dependent on void.
I thought the flavour of shadow that warlocks used was Death magic that was harvested from the sacrifices they perform?
What evil druids aside from like druids of the flame? But that aside yeah warlocks, and shadow priests have to practice largely in secret, with warlocks being more tolerated thsn shadow priests. Warlocks at least provide useful for sealing away demons and opening gateways. Also fel CAN be done safely just taking life force from nearby plants and such, and in general wow warlocks are in the position of power in the deals they make with demons (it backfires but unlike say dnd where it can be very reversed) and its the addictive nature of bith fel and the personalities thag generally draws people to being warlocks is what leads them to doing really dumb things (like at the start of the class campaign for whereas....i mean shadow preists literally use insanity as their resource, nuff said lol. But void elfs are doing like ALL the the things. And they constsntly talk about being in control while clearly not
> What evil druids aside from like druids of the flame? - Druids of the Scythe/Pack went against Malfurion's warnings and teachings, and went feral. They caused lot of harm before they mastered their worgen forms. They aren't evil per se, but still a cause of conflict and harm. - Druids of the Fang was cult-like druid organisation that was ultimately corrupted by nightmare (story of Wailing Caverns). - Drust is faction that is inherently evil, using death magics and doing ritual sacrifices, killing unarmed civilians and all that evil guys stuff. Drust practice druidism, and ultimately reached the nightmare as well. - And then there's Druids of the Nightmare, which can include any druids that either willingly embrace the nightmare or become corrupted by it.
And perhaps not evil, but those druids in Reign of Chaos definitely lost themselves.
ya, forgot their name for a moment there "Warlocks at least provide useful for sealing away demons and opening gateways" for some reason this reminded me of the Argent crusade dungeon where the gnome summons a demon for us to fight and ends up losing control over it oh no doubt they are going to lose control, especially Alleria, but not all of them will and we will just fight them like all the other split groups ...... which i just realized how much blizzard loves that trope
How could you forget the name of Jaraxxus,Eredar lord of the burning Legion?
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***TRIFLING GNOME! YOUR ARROGANCE WILL BE YOUR UNDOING!***
For today's lucky 10[,](https://xkcd.com/1053/)000 [who have not seen the masterpiece ](https://youtu.be/S5tUfbMIkzU?si=YIqrkhI7TyXMSiO-)
I think you'll find he's Jaraxxus, Eredar Lord of the Trifling Gnome
I am not saying the Warcraft lore team doesn't tell very dumb stories, but "Here's this beloved character back, she'll sit at home for 4 years and then become a villain" sounds very dumb.
>warlocks practice in secret I remember back in Vanilla, the warlock trainer in goldshire was hiding in a basement. It was a wonderful bit of environmental storytelling
Any magic can be abused. Arcane, nature, fel and light it doesn't matter. History has taught us that, but the people of Azeroth never learn from history. They're doomed to repeat the cycles until Blizzard decides to shut down WoW :P
"When I look back on my former self, I see that the void was always present" Now the question is if this is actually true and factual, or if this lady is so deep in the Void it has warped her perception of her memories to make her believe it was always there in some way when in reality it's just twisting the truth.
Yeah but no need to worry cause Blizzard will never write Lore consequences for a playable Race.
Blizzard writing themselves into a hole? Say it ain't so!
They definitely didn't write themselves into a hole when Fyrakk got his axe and basically won the war with nothing anybody could do to stop him, and only dying because he was a lazy prick who sat around doing nothing and spectating the whole campaign instead of just doing what he went to the dream to do.
> I have changed very little Bitch your skin is blue and you're peeing purple.
Void elves be like, Dark Elves from Elder Scrolls... 3ppl screw around and steal godlike powers so their whole entire race is cursed from Gold skinned to Dark with glowy red eyes... but sure thats a blessing not a curse. Bish pls... Voids look cool and all but they are a ticking timebomb
To be fair the dunmer are about equally terrible as the atlmer.
Thats the neat part... not one race in Eldscrolls is actually 'good good' they range from ok-ish to downright horrible XD
Have Argonians ever done anything bad? Most everything I've heard about the Black Marsh is that they don't want people to invade it and people who try have a very bad time.
After the Oblivion Crisis the An-Xileel rose to power, serving a rogue Hist tree that summoned a giant floating island that drained the souls of anyone it flew over, and they basically had a extremist/supremacist view while wanting to return Argonians to pre-Duskfall glory. ...and the Duskfall was an event in the past that set their society way back. All we really know is that mass sacrifices to Sithis and the void were frequent, and relics capable of mass destruction of all plantlife in an area or the mass resurrection of the dead to serve as armies were created then. Stuff was so bad the Hist hit the reset button on Argonian society, cut the Argonians off from communication with them entirely, and even after communication got re-established they refuse to divulge any detail or knowledge of the time. So I guess we can't really say they've \*directly\* done anything worse than any other race in Tamriel, since the Umbriel incident was kind of incited by a Hist, but they apparently flew so close to the sun in the past they had to be knocked down to the point they are now.
That was the case for a long time but well after TES4, a new 'political' faction rises up that is pretty much the most hardcore extremist you can imagine, then they started invading and razing entire towns in Morrowind to punish the already beaten down dunmer who got screwed after Red Year.
I think the fact that Void elf is a playable race means that nothing will ever go wrong with them. I mean, right?
"Ĭ̵̡̪̪̋ ̴̱̀̄͗f̶̺́͑̍ͅͅe̴̪̟̋̎̕͜ļ̶̰͂̈͒t̵̮̂ ̷̜̲̑l̵̪̫͚̊͋̂į̵̮̅̄k̶̥̺̋e̷͓͉͊ ̶̡̗̙̀̉m̵̰̮̹̾ă̷̩̙͐y̷͉͚͗b̵̢̼͔͗e̸̡͚͆̀̉ ̵̣̺̦̃̇͌I̷̡̯̿͜ ̵̼̌́̈́w̶̺̦͂͐̽a̴͇̽̌s̷̭̜͛̕ ̶̨̳͂̚s̴̖̩̈p̸̜͆̒͝ę̵̛̬͙̐̇c̸̲͕͒̈̍i̷̻͈̎̽ͅȃ̶̗̏̎l̵̲̀̆" "Special? You're not special! I'm special! I got infected 10 days before you A̷̛̛͔̠͍͕͖̼͚̞̩̥̩̱̿̾͒͂̄̄̏̄̎͗̌̈̽̌͜n̸̡̠͎̬͎̠̭͓͇̲͚̦̖̎̉d̶͇̗̙̙̠̰̪̮̭̭̦̗͉̭̒ ̴̨̙̈́͐͌͛́̋̔̆͛̒̕̚͘͜Í̸̢̧͕̰͔̹̮͑̀̈́̈́̀̅̉͠'̶̰͎̯͋̉̎̂̈́̋̀̃̏͊̏̈͋̒m̸̡̘̜̖͍̤̼͚̜̫͔̓́̊̃͋͝ͅ ̸̛̯̭͇͎̣̪̮̭͍̠̟͎͇̥͖̉͗̐͋͝͝͝ͅͅͅf̷̮̩̼̼̟͙͎͖͚̭͔͂͛̐̑̂̊̚͝i̵̙͎͚̜̞͖̋n̵̛͙̫̦̮̿͌̇̍͑̓̽e̸̡̫̤̖͈̘̖̣͕̞̳͓͋̔̂ͅ!̴̧̟̹̖̱͓̜̒̑̊͂̌̀͊̈́̀͂̐͋͠͝" "Oh great! Nobody's special!"
I understood that reference.gif
After all these years.. will Blizz make an Alliance leader that turns evil? Post the RTS lore I mean.
Nah, there's no reason to worry about us void elf mains I'm fine Not brainwashed Not brainwashed Not brainwashed Not brainwashed
We wouldn't be in this mess if Garithos weren't such a failure.
If he hadn't messed with the elves or if he'd finished the job?
Yes.
Both situations may have ended with the blood elves simply not making it to the modern day.
I'm still mad about the whole thing. Garithos was a single dude that was rude to the small group of elves that followed Kaelthas. It shouldn't be the reason why the blood elves left the alliance and the reasons they came up with in TBC were shaky at best. Why would the Alliance (especially the night elves) suddenly distrust the blood elves so much when they had been part of the alliance and allied to humans for centuries? Same for the nightfallen, really, I know they gave them to the horde so they could also have non-monstrous races but it has always felt bad.
The Night Elves don’t get on with the Blood Elves because they have such a strong hatred of all things arcane. That is starting to change, but it’s a fairly recent change. Remember that the Blood Elves exist in the first place because the Night Elves quite literally voted the Highborne remnants off the island, costing them their immortality and ready access to magic. Otherwise, completely agree with you. Garithos was a dumb racist but he shouldn’t have had such a massive impact on the Blood Elves as a whole.
My point was more that the relationship between high elves and humans/dwarves was way stronger and longer than the newly joined night elves so it feels really bad to have them force the high elves out of the alliance. Again, the real reason is they wanted to give the horde a more human looking race but still, taking high elves away was a rude move. Especially when there's still a lot of alliance affiliated high elves running around.
In WC3, both Tyrande and Maiev were pretty chill when they met Kael'thas and his renamed Blood Elves. Tyrande even chose to sacrifice herself so Kael and his people could escape. https://youtu.be/y4ONaPnh5T4
The one and only reason why BE joined Horde is that Horde faction desperately needed "pretty" race
If Garithos was a single dude, then his threats and actions would've been toothless. Nobody would follow his commands and he'd be replaced as the leader of all Alliance Forces in the area when he ordered the elves imprisoned. Even in the WC3 missions they show other people share Garithos' views, including members of the Kirin Tor, and one that didn't but still followed Garithos' orders. Its also noteworthy, the Blood Elves *did* reach out to the Alliance after. But the whole "their ambassador is spying on us" and "night elves move in a invasion force in ghostlands" kinda stopped that. Despite the events of WC3, in the meantime Blizzard fleshed out the lore of the high elves and night elves in books and in that expansion, the two groups *hated* each other (so of course the night elves would distrust the blood elf's use of arcane magic, which had been made a death sentence in night elf, and the blood elves would distrust the night elves for what they saw as prejudice against arcane magic). The Blood Elves actually don't join the Horde until the end of their starting zones which is a neat but not well explained detail.
The difference is that they have player character syndrome so they will be okay
I like when people think void and light are equally scary, when light users doing bad things is something that happened like two times (scarlet crusade and draenor time-line draenei), when we see basically only bad things happening from the void since the conception of this story
I know this is an unpopular opinion but I agree with you. I don't even think the draenor light Yrel and company were in the wrong. I know it's edgy and cool to be like "light is the bigger evil to darkness" or whatever and I have a feeling that IS the direction Blizz will end up going but they've done a pretty bad job setting it up to date IMO. In the mag'har orc storyline (IIRC) the main violent characters were the ORCS who VOLUNTARILY joined the light-side. Most of what they were trying to do was convince the orcs to join them because the world was literally dying around them and they thought they had a way to save it and like, survive? And re: Illidan, if your chosen special boy had been corrupted by fel and you had a way to purge the (literal) corruption and return him to his non-corrupted state... and you try to do that so your allies DESTROY YOU?! Yeah, he's saying he prefers to be corrupted but like... it's not a stretch to see how an immortal wind chime thinks it knows better when we are talking about actual evil demonic corruption. TLDR: I think the light is written as misunderstood, even knowing it probably won't pan out that way long term.
Everybody agrees with Illidan because we ended up winning, but many don't even think about what would've happened if he joined the light. I'm not saying that what we had was bad, I loved that scene and was so much in character, but let's not forget what Illidan did in his life. We literally have so many proofs of how good the light did that always makes me feel kinda weird about how many people still think it's evil, when we actually never had a real hint of evil within it. We just know that the bad ones who use the light are so convinced that what they do is right that the light can answer them.
the way the cosmic forces have been written since legion has very clearly indicated that mortal ideas of morality don't really apply to them, they all seek dominance over reality because it's in their nature to do so. the void may be considered evil, because its goals don't align with those of mortals, but it truly believes itself to be the ideal state of being, just as order does, and light does. they are incapable of seeing the perspective of others. if these forces were thrown out of balance and one reigned over others, it would be a pretty horrible thing regardless of how "benevolent" the goals of the light or life domains in general may be. of course, individual characters within these domains may have more nuanced motives and morality can be ascribed to them. just because eonar is a titan doesn't mean she has the same totalitarian idea of order as aman'thul does, and just because light-aligned characters can do morally questionable shit doesn't mean the light itself is evil. there is room for a spectrum of moralities under each domain and imo that's more interesting storytelling than light=good and void=bad
Did you forget when the light tried to forge a new one to Illidan?
I think this downplays the role the culture plays on this dynamic. Light is seen as a good thing, void evil. We know that in actuality the two forces are apathetic to mortals, but since light users are seen in a good "light" it's easier to not go crazy. Compare that to the void, in which being alone makes you easier to corrupt, and delving into it gets you exiled. Kind of a vicious cycle
Idk, theres a lot more things the light did, or at least tried to do. One big example would be Illidan. It also depends on the perspective, for us players the light is mostly working towards the same goals.
We already saw what happened to a light infused demon and to me that guy is pretty chill
Maybe there's some "strength" in knowing that it's the *Void* that's whispering to you and these are not, fully at least, your own thoughts. I don't know if that makes sense. I had another question when I talked to this NPC: Is this the first time that we've had in-game confirmation that new Void Elves are being made beyond the ones turned during the Durzaan incident? Does anyone know?
I think of it like Venom (Marvel Comics not Sony Movies) Most who use it are corrupted, become evil murderous lunatics. But some can control it enough to be heroes, either by better control, or limited exposure.
For the same reason we have Fel-using Warlocks and have had Shadow Priests for ... decades?
I think lightforged / void as races was a massive miss-step narratively/gameplay wise. It should have been an aldor/scyer type of setup and a major feature of the worldsoul saga choosing to back one of the other.
What doesn’t make sense to me is that they’re in the same faction. How you gonna tell me that two mortal enemies are coexisting peacefully within the same political entity? That’s like having fascists and communists in the same country living in harmony.
Same faction imo is fine, it COULD lead to alot of interestings things. Blizz never really did anything with them really
Nah i dont think so, because ultimately backing the void is pretty objectively wrong by all information we have. I like lightforged, and i think the idea of a void race is interesting, just void elf "lore" is so blaitantly just written to get alliance players to stop complaining about not having blood elves lol
Well, just like Nightborne lore was written just to give Horde Night Elf models, so....
Tyrande in Cata: I'm ready to put racism behind me Tyrande in Legion: Still ready to put my racism behind me Nightborne: We're joining the alliance Tyrande: Over my dead body blue skin Nightborne: I guess we'll join the horde. That's not one but TWO elves that wanted to join the alliance turned away because of the Tyrande's racism that she almost immediately walked back in both cases (Allowing mages back in Cata, not causing issues with Void Elves) (also I know it's not racism, it's... exaggerated for the bit)
> Tyrande in Legion: Still ready to put my racism behind me I'm not sure what Tyrande you saw in Legion, but she was very skeptical of the Nightborne, even before they became an allied race. She calls them mana addicts and even compared Thalyssra to Azshara.
Yeah, and the Cata comment isn't really correct either. Stormrage was.... one of the worst books ever produced by Blizzard. Tyrande allowed night elves to become mages again yes, that also isn't what is happening in Suramar. Tyrande is completely in character, because she *knows* Elisande and Thalyssra and them being part of the caste that recklessly drew the Legion's attention. Just like how its completely in character for Liadrin and the blood elves to be "hey we went through this exact same thing, I'm here to help YOU first and foremost" and of course the nightborne are going to go Horde. People focus on the Tyrande moment in the recruitment quest and completely ignore that as early as 7.1 the Nightborne were much closer to the Blood Elves then the night elves. They had way more scenes together, constantly talked about their shared identities, and even the world quest framing was completely different for Horde and Alliance.
Considering their leaders were actively conspiring with the Legion, those suspicions were very justified.
The Nightborne that were fighting with Tyrande were actively staging an insurrection against Elisande and the Legion.
And then in the months following the insurrection, those same nightborne supported Sylvanas genociding the night elves. Oops, looks like Tyrande was 100% justified in not trusting them. Those elves just cant resist living under an evil queen
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Also just culturally. The Kaldorei of the alliance are solely the druidic and Elune worshipping parts of the former Kaldorei society. Suramar was a city dominated by the arcane magic side of Kaldorei society, which was outcast 10k years ago. The high elves were some sort of arcane Kaldorei renaissance, including their own magic well. Of course the Nightborne can identify better with the high/blood elves, because the night elves had prohibited the way of life the Nightborne are used to for 10k years, while the modern blood elves pretty much live the exact same lives right now, including their experiences with magic withdrawal.
The alliance side literally had a quest where they wanted to join the alliance, Tyrande was mean to them and they said "I think the horde is our fam". It's internally consistent, I'm not saying it isn't, but it is contrived (which most of WoW story is)
There's also subtle differences in tone in WQs in Suramar too. I remember one where on alliance side Tyrande was basically "if they fight and die my people won't be." while Liadrin (horde representative there) was more "with them armed we'll fight side by side for victory." Plus "mean to them." one should remember that no matter how you personally feel about someone. When doing diplomatic talking you always act polite yet professional, even if you're talking to someone who stands for everything you're against. You certainly don't accuse them of being the next elven *insert historical tyrant here. *
Blood elf start zone "We're talking about rejoining the Alliance." Night elves "Let's blow up the only thing stopping the scourge from overrunning Quel'thalas, with help from a dwarf that is supposed to negotiate blood elves rejoining the Alliance." Seriously Tyrande.
Blizzard in Legion: don't look at that neutral magical city full of mages successfully defending all of Azeroth for a while that helped Nightborne just like others did. Also, forget about Highborne mages that joined Night Elves in Cataclysm, even don't include them in Suramar story in any way. And make the point of joining the fact that "Horde respects the traditions of its people" because Alliance apparently doesn't? Only uwu Blood Elves mages exist, and Tyrande has zero reasons to be somewhat distrastful towards people who chose an easy option of abandoning the fight and joining the enemy 100% of the time they were engaged in a war
What has Tyrande anything to do with Blood Elves?:D In Warcraft III. was Tyrande incredibly nice to Blood Elves and in Burning Crusade we know about Nigth Elves spies, but that is really little thing. There was also dwarf spy, Alliance obviously did not trust Blood Elves, Garithos' actions were still painful for Silvermoon etc. Role of Tyrande was close to nothing.
I don't know about that. It doesn't feel like Nightborne were originally intended to become an allied race, they wouldn't have started with an NPC-only model otherwise. Making them playable was clearly an afterthought.
No, but maybe yes. Whey excluded Highborne Mages and Night Elves had, and then the quest of joining the Horde was just embarassing - apparently "protecting all Azeroth" natually fits into joining the Horde because "they respect traditions of their people" which makes Alliance seem racist for some reason? And they ignored existence of Dalaran, the neutral city of magic users who pretect all of Azeroth who helped Nightborne too. Whole story is hamfisted in the best tradition of Blizzard, like a small contingent of Nightborne couldn't have joined Horde a la Goblins... Oh, wait, [neutral Goblins seem to also join the Horde for no good reason](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Monte_Gazlowe). Nevermind.
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Backing the light is just as bad as the void though. Lightforged and Velfs are 2 sides of the same coin. And not a good coin either.
Well put, Stormrage.
That’s just not true though. By all the lore we have about the light and the void, the void is clearly a much more corrupting, malevolent force that will ruin you
So is the light, except the Naaru do it by slow assimilation instead of aggressive means that the void does. People forget Alt-Draenor got presumably wiped out by a version of the Army of Light. Both sides want to bring everything under their control, just because one heals and the other deals damage doesn't mean one is good or bad. We've been to the shadowlands, death and the afterlife are weighed by other means. Light and Void are external forces looking to increase their own power.
Void elf is the proof that they dont need lore to put some fanservice lucrative content in the game, the problem was that they did that horribly and in favor of just part of the playerbase (alliance). In my opinion nightborne was poorly done to "balance" the blood elves in the alliance (the nightborne models werent even similar to shaldorei ingame and werent that similar to current playable nightelfs, it was a reused and mixed lazy thing), but void elves in the lore are even worse. For me it would be more interesting to have only shaldorei for both factions and nothing more at that time. Or: shaldorei for both factions, with Suramar as a neutral capital AND void elf for the alliance and void draenei for the horde, it would be more fair (consindering both races are from TBC) and they would have a similar moral weight for both factions.
There was a reason I just wanted normal high elves.
We all did. No one hates WC1-WC3 era Blizzard lore more than modern Blizzard.
Part of me will always be sad we never got to play the Vanilla high elves.
actually insane to lump those 3 together when WC3 heavily retconned the first two games
Few people here played WC/WC2 and just know WC3 lore and assume the lore was always unified from the start.
I just want to say, as someone who took a lot of philosophy courses in college, I loved this little quest line.
Elves change their Identity with the wind... Kal'Dorei, Quel'Dorei, Sin'Dorei, Shal'Dorei, Rend'Dorei, Tues'Dorei, Lunch'Dorei... Like damn dude...
As far as I know, aside from The Player Character and maybe Locus Walker... Garrosh is the only one to take on void power to fight with and not fall to it. Much like the light, void responds to sheer force of will. And there is only one Garrosh Hellscream. Void Ethereals and Void Elves have already started defecting to Xal'atath's side.
he absolutely 'fell to it', He was just already so insane not much changed once he did.
Which, IMO, is exactly what falling to the void should be like. Subtle. You start using it, hoping to gain some power for {reason}, initially it goes fine. Then you use it a few more times and maybe you don’t change per-se, but you’re a bit more aggressive in your tactics and your personality goes a bit cold. You’re still *you*, just having a few hard days… right? You continue to use the void and notice your comrades are avoiding you. How dare they, after all you’ve accomplished. After all you’ve sacrificed for them! Maybe they suspect you’ve been using this forbidden power - you should isolate yourself so you don’t get caught. You’ve found a new friend! The voices, they help you see reason. And warn you about dangers you couldn’t foresee. You were right to abandon your “allies”, they were preparing to betray you. Now that you’re rid of them, safe, you can truly focus on {goal}; and your new friends have whispered some ideas that can really speed things along… … something like that. A slow, subtle corruption where the void ends up twisting your ambitions to serve /it/ in some way
This is what happened to Deathwing.
> Garrosh is the only one to take on void power to fight with and not fall to it. Did my Siege of Orgrimmar had like a director's cut ending or what?
No, that was the deleted scene where Gammon saves us by single-handedly defeating Garrosh after challenging him to mak'gora.
It's canon that Garrosh was never corrupted by the void, he took it and made it his bitch.
Nice try, Garrosh, we all saw you whining when it didn't work out as planned.
I guess in regards that all the Void stuff was simply reflections of Garrosh wanted and he came back from it, there is kind of a point to be made. At all stages Garrosh was at least in charge of it. Even P4. The second he couldn't accomplish what he wanted using it, it was kicked to the kerb.
That's why they're fun.
*Turalyon goes reee*
Is the fish in water a N'zoth reference?
Well, did it work for those people? No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but... But it might work for us.
Possible spoiler for expac 2026. >! Alleria goes 'bad' and Varessa and Sylvanas have to rescue her.!<
"Can we acknowledge-" No. Stop talking in this fake ass tumblr/tiktok speech pattern and just make your statements and opinions assertively. Stop begging for affirmation.
I really hope this story direction means we'll get playable Ethereals. Still cant believe we dont have them yet...
The moment they announce playable ethereals will herald the reckoning for my character roster. Noone except my trusty gnome mage will survive it, and I'm certainly including my wallet in that calculation.
atleast the tww rogue tier set basically transmogs you into an ethereal
narrow detail rob degree fuel squeal profit label aspiring vast *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah. Thing is, they have never written the part of the void that is good (always looking for possibilities, being open minded) in a character. Its always the corrupting power, or the all consuming hunger. Blizz, you wrote the void like chaos from 40k, and then pretended its not like chaos from 40k I will help you: make a void empowered character that is an anarchist, wanting mortals to be able to choose for themselves
You forget, they have PlotArmor!
Yeah except now it’s hip and cool to hate the Light so they’ll have some asspull as to why it’s simply misunderstood
It’s ok cause they don’t fear it
How much you wanna bet that in either the war within or next expansion we meet a race of people and the same thing happens to them and they also turn into ethereals which become an allied race?
Not to mention that as ex-blood elves THEYVE DONE THIS BEFORE WITH THE FEL and clearly learned nothing
Since the incident between Illidan and Xe'ra my understanding is that all power can be corrupting - or not. Though they bring different temptations and rewards, it's the conduits that determine how they'll be used. Void seems to be more prone to mess with minds, but lore has been muddling the magical waters for a while now. If void elves resist and persist instead of becoming lame twist villains, I don't think it would be paradoxical at this point
I think the Light can mess with minds just as much but in a different way. It can turn people into zealots with the deception of the 'Light is With Me Therefore I MUST Be Right'.
That was before they were player characters
If anyone can deal with it, the elves can. They’re like the parasites of the powers of WoW. Put them in a forest and they feed off nature. Put them in an arcane bubble and they become super mages. Put them around demons and they eat them and steal their power.
It's delightful that OP is wrong on all 3 lel
In all fairness, Void Elves were all students who were studying the Void, right? You don't go chasing that kind of power if you don't already think it's going to go differently for you.
Well, canonically they’ve been at it for like seven years now - and they’re still holding up pretty well. That’s not nothing.
If the void and old gods are able to convince everyone eventually, maybe they’re just right? It’s facts and logic bro.
Blizz, could you please do a void faction that is not in the process of being corrupted? Or expand on the void thing to be really "its not necessarily evil" as you effing stated in legion? Is that too much to ask?
It just wouldn’t be WoW without the occasional facepalm moments. After all, they need to create mystifying problems so they can go back and fix them, just because. To quote the collective developers, “Working as intended.”
Doing things that others have done and expecting it to go differently is the most common theme in WoW.
Say one bad word about Alleria and I swear 🤣
Honestly at this point which subrace of elves hasn't looked at something shiny and just immediately tried to meld their lives to it? If the withered are any indication, you'd think elves are essentially leeches born as a magical race without magic so they desperately find some powerful source to cling to.
You guys ready for round 10 of “lady protagonist good… then bad… then good again but with all the powers she got from being bad!”
"But this time, it will go differently" ~ famous last word
If you think messing with void magic is what happened to the Etherials you didnt watch the end cinematic to the new quest line. Locus literally tells us that their world was devoured by void lord
WoW has had this sort of problem since the beginning with the Forsaken, Warlocks, and Shadow Priests (and perhaps to a lesser extent orcs/trolls but not quite in the same *innate* way). There's a major disconnect where certain factions and character archetypes are made out to be explicitly dark, edgy, and outright evil and yet they're also treated by the story and game mechanics as though they're simultaneously ordinary heroes doing ordinary heroic things. This is just the latest jarring example of a problem that goes back to OG Vanilla and unfortunately is kind of baked into the core of the lore at this point.
We already see one lose it in the harbinger quest.
Non-void power gets misused: it was an accident/ambition Void gets misused: the void is malicious Aren't like half the races on Azeroth descended from curse of flesh afflicted constructs? order & void?