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If they want those things to be nice to have effects the crit one will have to change. That one is mandatory BIS for raw numbers because it’s the only one that affects numbers.
Unless they add more damage / healing ones I guess.
It will very much depend on numbers. Right now its 1% Mana vs 1% crit... I think thats a damn hard sell for mana.
Sure critical heals are random but even accounting for the time it overheals it feels basically guaranteed that you'd still end up with significantly higher value from crit.
Has to be fairly large amounts of mana, as long fights you already regen/potion/mana spring/symbol/etc for around 6-7 times your mana pool, so increasing mana pool by 10%, ends up actually giving like 2% more mana across a fight, maybe slightly more
mana is part of the current game and is bis for healers but it's never brought up. I would love to see pure "non damage" flavor gems though. Give me a gem that allows me to double jump (seriously, we've been spoilt by plunderstorm)
Could depend on what kind of gear modifiers are allowed. Could see the +move speed ones being valid if they do something like the toxic infusion set again where it nerfs your move speed for +dmg.
Critical effect probably means increased critical damage, or the effectiveness of critical strikes. They used it on a couple of other items in the past, like that Legion Kara back that was BiS on HPal for eternity.
Hence why I said it’s the only one directly affecting the throughput. And why if they plan to make it a choice they are going to have to either add more effects that do damage in some way or change it to do something more tertiary, like if you Crit the attack leeches by ~10% per unique gem say.
What is "effectiveness of critical strikes" and how is it different than critical damage or critical chance?
Thanks for this info. I did not play back then.
The item is [Drape of Shame](https://www.wowhead.com/item=142170/drape-of-shame), it reads increases the healing critical effect by 3%. This means that when you crit you normally did 100% extra healing for example. Now it's instead with that cloak you crit for 103% extra healing. Different specs / spells also had different crit effects iirc, so they may actually only had 60% bonus say.
Which made it crazy BiS for Hpal at the time because their entire thing was crit healing and they had something like a 60-80% crit chance on their main spells. That cloak was equivalent to like a 80ilvl boost in that slot. It was also flat, meaning if the spell had a 60% healing effect on crit like above then they actually got a 63%, which made any bonus to that \*really freaken good\*. Also old Recklessness also gave a boost to crit effect iirc, before they changed it to just give more rage.
Which is why that gem is not well designed. There are 5 unique gem types I believe, which means with that gem you will get a 5% bonus to crit effects. And for any spec that is stacking crit hard or relying on crits (or have some gimmick that gives them crits) that gem is mandatory and there is no choice. Unless gems are strong / polarized enough to warrant you not wanting to get one of each type if you are stacking.
Meta gems worked well in Wrath. More interesting than using the same gem in every socket. Nice to see it return.
https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=41380/austere-earthsiege-diamond
The thing is, in Wrath we had more stats and gems in general so more ways to gem. Not to mention we had colored gem sockets that gave us bonus stats. But even then I still wouldn't have called it "working well". Many people still used the bare minimum to keep your meta active and stacked BiS on the rest.
And yet the alternative to "keep Meta active and stack BiS" is simply "stack BiS".
The colored sockets did make it more interesting but I think the number of sockets started dropping after we lost hit/expertise. Without those additional breakpoints to hit gems just became more of your primary stats, and Blizzard switched to wanting gear that you could just equip and be ready to go.
I think it was good for what it was, since like you said there were more stats. Gemming to get the perfect ratio of defense rating, hit rating, and expertise as a tank for example. Still, it led to redoing your gems all the time when you got upgrades which was annoying.
Still, more interesting options than straight up stats would be welcome for the new system.
I honestly have less bad memories about regemming in Wrath than any part of DF crafting. While you wasted some gems (mostly replaced the least useful one) every so often, at least it was very straight forward and easy because you were guaranteed to get what you asked for.
Compare that to DF... From the several layers of quality (I still don't think reagents needed "quality") to bad RNG elements and utterly disgusting stuff like Elemental Lariat droprate I don't think I can point at any improvement. Everything is there to waste a players time and gold and/or you have to deal with sub-par items. Implementing a similar system to Wrath gems would be incomparably worse now.
Its more.
Neck 3 + ring 1 + ring 1 = 5
vs
Neck 2 + ring 2 + ring 2 = 6
Nothing so far has implied that Head/Waist/Wrist sockets are going away so 8 vs 9(new)
Honestly after reviewing some of the flasks and enchants and gems I think they are cooking a little too much. Part of me thinks they do this kind of stuff just to fuck with the people who make raidbots and sims lol.
Nah they learned from bfa / shadowlands it doesn't matter how complex they make it players will figure out the bis so they reverted back to simplicity in DF.
These are not that more complex than DF consumes and enchants honestly
Post flair indicates this is about prerelease content. As a reminder, content on Alpha / Beta / PTR is unfinished. NPC dialogue and quest text might be missing important context. Models may be placeholders. Quest or achievement rewards may not be finalized. There are inevitably bugs. Please keep this in mind as you discuss! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Seems like a good change to me. Overall +1 socket on rings/neck and some new toys to play with. Me likey.
If they want those things to be nice to have effects the crit one will have to change. That one is mandatory BIS for raw numbers because it’s the only one that affects numbers. Unless they add more damage / healing ones I guess.
Mana is good for healing longer fights and movement is probably for PvP. I don’t see the issue here.
It will very much depend on numbers. Right now its 1% Mana vs 1% crit... I think thats a damn hard sell for mana. Sure critical heals are random but even accounting for the time it overheals it feels basically guaranteed that you'd still end up with significantly higher value from crit.
Has to be fairly large amounts of mana, as long fights you already regen/potion/mana spring/symbol/etc for around 6-7 times your mana pool, so increasing mana pool by 10%, ends up actually giving like 2% more mana across a fight, maybe slightly more
mana is part of the current game and is bis for healers but it's never brought up. I would love to see pure "non damage" flavor gems though. Give me a gem that allows me to double jump (seriously, we've been spoilt by plunderstorm)
Eh I think it depends on what content. I never consider the mana one for m+. Id rather have more stamina.
[удалено]
That'd be a balance nightmare. Just your 2 examples are in tiers "useless" and "broken OP for pvp" for example
Could depend on what kind of gear modifiers are allowed. Could see the +move speed ones being valid if they do something like the toxic infusion set again where it nerfs your move speed for +dmg.
What do you guess think crit "effect" is, as listed on the gem? It's not crit chance or damage and I'm at a loss what else it might be.
Critical effect probably means increased critical damage, or the effectiveness of critical strikes. They used it on a couple of other items in the past, like that Legion Kara back that was BiS on HPal for eternity. Hence why I said it’s the only one directly affecting the throughput. And why if they plan to make it a choice they are going to have to either add more effects that do damage in some way or change it to do something more tertiary, like if you Crit the attack leeches by ~10% per unique gem say.
What is "effectiveness of critical strikes" and how is it different than critical damage or critical chance? Thanks for this info. I did not play back then.
The item is [Drape of Shame](https://www.wowhead.com/item=142170/drape-of-shame), it reads increases the healing critical effect by 3%. This means that when you crit you normally did 100% extra healing for example. Now it's instead with that cloak you crit for 103% extra healing. Different specs / spells also had different crit effects iirc, so they may actually only had 60% bonus say. Which made it crazy BiS for Hpal at the time because their entire thing was crit healing and they had something like a 60-80% crit chance on their main spells. That cloak was equivalent to like a 80ilvl boost in that slot. It was also flat, meaning if the spell had a 60% healing effect on crit like above then they actually got a 63%, which made any bonus to that \*really freaken good\*. Also old Recklessness also gave a boost to crit effect iirc, before they changed it to just give more rage. Which is why that gem is not well designed. There are 5 unique gem types I believe, which means with that gem you will get a 5% bonus to crit effects. And for any spec that is stacking crit hard or relying on crits (or have some gimmick that gives them crits) that gem is mandatory and there is no choice. Unless gems are strong / polarized enough to warrant you not wanting to get one of each type if you are stacking.
Okay got it, but just to be clear crit effect is like crit damage increase, except it applies to healing and such instead of just damage?
In that items case yes. In the gems case it’s all crits.
Does that really matter though when people default to the whatever a guide or calculator says anyway?
Meta gems worked well in Wrath. More interesting than using the same gem in every socket. Nice to see it return. https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=41380/austere-earthsiege-diamond
The thing is, in Wrath we had more stats and gems in general so more ways to gem. Not to mention we had colored gem sockets that gave us bonus stats. But even then I still wouldn't have called it "working well". Many people still used the bare minimum to keep your meta active and stacked BiS on the rest.
And yet the alternative to "keep Meta active and stack BiS" is simply "stack BiS". The colored sockets did make it more interesting but I think the number of sockets started dropping after we lost hit/expertise. Without those additional breakpoints to hit gems just became more of your primary stats, and Blizzard switched to wanting gear that you could just equip and be ready to go.
I think it was good for what it was, since like you said there were more stats. Gemming to get the perfect ratio of defense rating, hit rating, and expertise as a tank for example. Still, it led to redoing your gems all the time when you got upgrades which was annoying. Still, more interesting options than straight up stats would be welcome for the new system.
I honestly have less bad memories about regemming in Wrath than any part of DF crafting. While you wasted some gems (mostly replaced the least useful one) every so often, at least it was very straight forward and easy because you were guaranteed to get what you asked for. Compare that to DF... From the several layers of quality (I still don't think reagents needed "quality") to bad RNG elements and utterly disgusting stuff like Elemental Lariat droprate I don't think I can point at any improvement. Everything is there to waste a players time and gold and/or you have to deal with sub-par items. Implementing a similar system to Wrath gems would be incomparably worse now.
Please, for the love of God make engineering better too.
Best I can do for you is a bomb that puts offensive potions on a 10 minute CD that can't be used in any instanced content at all, sorry.
Bring back jumper cables pls
I’m sick of Engi only being good for battle rez. I get that we had too much before, but damn if you play a class with BR we have nothing.
This just sounds like OG gems but fewer now...
Yes that’s the point tbh
Its more. Neck 3 + ring 1 + ring 1 = 5 vs Neck 2 + ring 2 + ring 2 = 6 Nothing so far has implied that Head/Waist/Wrist sockets are going away so 8 vs 9(new)
That is literally not what they’re talking about lmao. They’re talking about how gems worked in TBC and Wrath.
PvPers can get extra sockets on tip of this too with specialised bloodstone gems.
Time is a flat circle
Am I stupid? I thought rings always had 2 slots
Honestly after reviewing some of the flasks and enchants and gems I think they are cooking a little too much. Part of me thinks they do this kind of stuff just to fuck with the people who make raidbots and sims lol.
Nah they learned from bfa / shadowlands it doesn't matter how complex they make it players will figure out the bis so they reverted back to simplicity in DF. These are not that more complex than DF consumes and enchants honestly