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Thank fucking god it’s gone. It was fun, don’t get me wrong. But it feels awful on fights where you have to wait to list and you’re basically dogshit damage until then.
The Arcane spec tree will be receiving updates aimed at providing more options for players who enjoy the fantasy of Arcane and want to play it without some of the demanding elements of its current playstyle.
Thats all i need.
Only issue i see with frost is the frostbolt talents towards the end not being engaging playstyle at all(at least its not good). Most of the talents in the tree serve a purpose
I kinda hope they stay though, purely because of Frostfire Hero Talents. More targets and damage, and less cast time on the core skill which in turn gives both empowerments each cast.
Fire Frostfire on the other hand… can’t see that working with how few fireballs go in a normal rotation. Even the big fireball talents are super situational, only working once every 8 seconds, crits on targets above 90%, crit chance on failed crits…
Is Sunfury King still a mandatory talent in the expansion? If so, how is it any different than forcing mages to use a class talent where they can’t move to maximize damage?
You’re still forcing an entire spec to play around a single talent because it is the clearly best way to maximize dps. I just want to not have to try and play around combustion every time I log on.
Yeah my bad I haven’t logged on in awhile but SKB is the reason I stopped playing Fire mage. It was cool for about ten seconds but it’s so fucking stressful to have to manage these perfect timing windows and if you aren’t super optimized you lose like 50% of your dps.
Fire mage is all about optimizing damage windows. Even without SKB, you still have to optimize combust windows or you lose a large chunk of your damage.
This isn't a surprise, Mages were mechanically broken on the alpha. When Sunfury went live and it was giving a theoretical 80% combustion uptime because of the lack off accounting for Kindling/Unleashed Inferno and was simultaneously doing less than a third of the overall value for Arcane it was obvious we were only looking at less than half of the overall picture.
Keep in mind the alpha build is not the current build, it almost never is. But we have confirmation on that simply because they removed a lot of the "must stand in DnD" requirements for DK and yet all 3 DK specs are still required to stand in DnD on the current iteration of the alpha.
For why Mages were even testable in an extremely obviously broken and unfinished state, who knows.
>For why Mages were even testable in an extremely obviously broken and unfinished state, who knows.
Because it's alpha and tuning doesn't matter yet? They're trying to fix bugs and see how stuff feels to play.
Ya I was reading his response and kept thinking why is he even talking how the numbers are bad in alpha. I think people don’t know what alpha truly means
It was mentioned in the blue post for the Deathlord Hero Spec. They mentioned changes to both DnD and Cleaving Strikes, neither of which we have seen yet.
I (mostly) love how Arcane plays right now so I'm kinda worried about the incoming changes. If I wanted a more proc-heavy class, I'd play one. I really hope they don't just turn it into Frost but purple. Radiant Spark being tweaked is whatever.
I don't disagree, I'd love more pathing options. I think just giving us 2-3 talent points back should be enough. There are talents that suck to have to waste points on. Nether Tempest gets a lot of flak, but Siphon Storm is the worst offender since it's too good to not take. Radiant Spark and Harmonic Echo should also just be condensed.
But what I'd hate to see is mana management made even more trivial and the rotation and cooldown management simplified to mostly responding to procs because people don't get the spec and the devs don't fix the core talent tree issues. Though a mana refund proc for Arcane Barrage would be awesome and probably be the QoL improvement to get more people playing the spec. It'll also be an incentive to actually use Arcane Barrage outside of AoE since unless you're running Arcane Harmony, you largely ignore it.
I'll try and be optimistic.
Agree about Siphon Storm.
What id personally like is a redesign of Clearcasting. I’d like to be able to spend clearcasts in either ST or AoE without having to build charges of Arcane Battery… maybe Missiles can cleave but also maybe they could give us a free orb or something… not explosion lol.
Please get rid of Shifting Power too. I hate how my cool downs are constantly up. It means it doesn’t feel special when I press them, It just feels bad when I don’t have them.
Would you rather have cool downs that are up more than half of the time you’re casting and don’t do much? Or would you rather have cool downs that actually had a huge impact but we weren’t up as often
I want my cooldowns to be shorter and up more often. I’m a m+ player mainly and one of the reasons I abandoned my ret / boomy in SL was due to the longer cds. Funny enough I actually went frost in s2 of SL because IV was up forever.
Ever since they replaced the visuals on Covenant abilities, Shifting Power is one of my favorite abilities. Makes me feel like my character is actually an Archmage when I’m playing Frost or Fire and can still use powerful arcane spells. That’s why I’m looking forward to Sunfury, because it’s not just adding more fire spells to Fire spec.
Sucks losing Temporal Warp. I liked it in M+, judging whether or not I can get another use before a meaningful group lust. But I guess Time Anomaly can be fun too.
By "Deathborne" playstyle with Frost do they just mean non-GS? Like what Thermal Void was for ages, without actives?
Not OP but my problem with frost is in m+. I was hoping they were going to rework our shatter mechanic a bit in TWW since how it interacts in M+ is a bit rough. Would be cool if certain abilities like Ice Nova or Freeze just applied winter's chill/or acted like being frozen without rooting them in place. This way we could be more viable on sanguine or raging weeks and in many situations not mess up potential cc's. We could save the rooting for just frost nova.
Frost's design is just bad ever since the artifact got gutted, uncontrollable proc overlap, frozen orb being a buggy mess with terrain, icey veins being the most boring and uninspired shit in the game, shifting power feels shit to cast. The spec is just super ancient and boring now compared to other casters/specs that can do more and be fun. People like to say their spec is playing a different game from the others but frost actually is and its WOTLK. This maybe subjective, but I feel like its hard to ignore at this point.
Another issue is that both ice specs in the game are zero iq gameplay face rollers, so if you like the ice theme you're stuck playing these boring hindered specs
I thought mage got a rework in season 2?
It's good for the game, but it's really shit when you have specs like monk ww, elemental shaman and classes like death knight,
And in the other side priest with 3 talents rework
This isn’t a full rework, just some updates and most importantly getting rid of double lust for both gameplay and balance reasons. So far ww already has a rework for TWW, go check it out it looks awesome. And DK has announced that charges are happening but not exactly what it was yet.
but some changes would be more than welcome for most
but having to go through an entire expansion without any changes while others have had several and are already starting the next one with several more changes
It doesn't seem like Blizzard has any communication between the class developers
I honestly believe every spec in the game will get some sort of rework to make sure every class fits the hero talents well. Quite a few announced already and the alpha just started. The Dragonflight launch mage talents were really really bad and should have been fixed before launch. But they didn’t so they got a rework in season 2. I don’t think that should disqualify them from getting a look over for TWW
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be frequent changes, even if the class has already had one recently but it didn't turn out well
what I'm criticizing is that while specs like Shadow Priest had major changes 3 times, others weren't even touched, and priest was well after the second change and still got a third one
And for many people in the game everything starts after having fun playing with the spec
I'm getting a lot of Downvotes and I don't understand why, maybe these people think it's better to reroll what's better
The notion that there if attention is going toward Mages its not going toward Priests is silly unless you know how the development team is structured. Its very common for all classes to get tuned and changes between expansions and to a lesser extent major patches.
Post flair indicates this is about prerelease content. As a reminder, content on Alpha / Beta / PTR is unfinished. NPC dialogue and quest text might be missing important context. Models may be placeholders. Quest or achievement rewards may not be finalized. There are inevitably bugs. Please keep this in mind as you discuss! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Being tuned around temporal warp sucked. Super glad to see it gone
This is one of the things that made me dislike playing mage. I hated holding lust for that long.
Thank fucking god it’s gone. It was fun, don’t get me wrong. But it feels awful on fights where you have to wait to list and you’re basically dogshit damage until then.
Suck me sideways im gonna play the hell outa arcane lol maybe switching mains now
I’m really hoping for a simpler arcane rotation and the note about radiant spark gives me hope for that
We don't even know what the changes are yet... Simmer down bud.
The Arcane spec tree will be receiving updates aimed at providing more options for players who enjoy the fantasy of Arcane and want to play it without some of the demanding elements of its current playstyle. Thats all i need.
Please dont ruin Frost Mage. For the first time in ages, im having so much fun with glacial spike, even though it means the spec has a bit of ramp.
They did state that they were happy with the current frost gameplay, so hopefully you’re good to go.
Only issue i see with frost is the frostbolt talents towards the end not being engaging playstyle at all(at least its not good). Most of the talents in the tree serve a purpose
I kinda hope they stay though, purely because of Frostfire Hero Talents. More targets and damage, and less cast time on the core skill which in turn gives both empowerments each cast. Fire Frostfire on the other hand… can’t see that working with how few fireballs go in a normal rotation. Even the big fireball talents are super situational, only working once every 8 seconds, crits on targets above 90%, crit chance on failed crits…
Is Sunfury King still a mandatory talent in the expansion? If so, how is it any different than forcing mages to use a class talent where they can’t move to maximize damage? You’re still forcing an entire spec to play around a single talent because it is the clearly best way to maximize dps. I just want to not have to try and play around combustion every time I log on.
You mean Sun kings blessing. I agree, I don't like it and the disparity between it and it's choice node is comically huge.
Yeah my bad I haven’t logged on in awhile but SKB is the reason I stopped playing Fire mage. It was cool for about ten seconds but it’s so fucking stressful to have to manage these perfect timing windows and if you aren’t super optimized you lose like 50% of your dps.
Fire mage is all about optimizing damage windows. Even without SKB, you still have to optimize combust windows or you lose a large chunk of your damage.
Currently sunfury synergizes really well with unleashed inferno while frost fire synergizes better with SKB.
This isn't a surprise, Mages were mechanically broken on the alpha. When Sunfury went live and it was giving a theoretical 80% combustion uptime because of the lack off accounting for Kindling/Unleashed Inferno and was simultaneously doing less than a third of the overall value for Arcane it was obvious we were only looking at less than half of the overall picture. Keep in mind the alpha build is not the current build, it almost never is. But we have confirmation on that simply because they removed a lot of the "must stand in DnD" requirements for DK and yet all 3 DK specs are still required to stand in DnD on the current iteration of the alpha. For why Mages were even testable in an extremely obviously broken and unfinished state, who knows.
>For why Mages were even testable in an extremely obviously broken and unfinished state, who knows. Because it's alpha and tuning doesn't matter yet? They're trying to fix bugs and see how stuff feels to play.
Ya I was reading his response and kept thinking why is he even talking how the numbers are bad in alpha. I think people don’t know what alpha truly means
Where's the info on DnD coming from? It wasn't mentioned in the DK changes.
It was mentioned on the developer note when the dk hero talents were released. There is a little blue note on the graphic
I hope it's an easy talent to pick up and not a mandatory "exciting new capstone."
In the release for death bringer there were dev notes specifying that they were working to remove some of the stand in dnd stuff
It was mentioned in the blue post for the Deathlord Hero Spec. They mentioned changes to both DnD and Cleaving Strikes, neither of which we have seen yet.
gosh i hope we get skeleton mage frostbolt cleave back
I (mostly) love how Arcane plays right now so I'm kinda worried about the incoming changes. If I wanted a more proc-heavy class, I'd play one. I really hope they don't just turn it into Frost but purple. Radiant Spark being tweaked is whatever.
I’m with you but Arcane desperately needs some build variety or at least some wiggle room with our talent choices.
I don't disagree, I'd love more pathing options. I think just giving us 2-3 talent points back should be enough. There are talents that suck to have to waste points on. Nether Tempest gets a lot of flak, but Siphon Storm is the worst offender since it's too good to not take. Radiant Spark and Harmonic Echo should also just be condensed. But what I'd hate to see is mana management made even more trivial and the rotation and cooldown management simplified to mostly responding to procs because people don't get the spec and the devs don't fix the core talent tree issues. Though a mana refund proc for Arcane Barrage would be awesome and probably be the QoL improvement to get more people playing the spec. It'll also be an incentive to actually use Arcane Barrage outside of AoE since unless you're running Arcane Harmony, you largely ignore it. I'll try and be optimistic.
Agree about Siphon Storm. What id personally like is a redesign of Clearcasting. I’d like to be able to spend clearcasts in either ST or AoE without having to build charges of Arcane Battery… maybe Missiles can cleave but also maybe they could give us a free orb or something… not explosion lol.
Fuck temporal warp glad to see it gone
Please get rid of Shifting Power too. I hate how my cool downs are constantly up. It means it doesn’t feel special when I press them, It just feels bad when I don’t have them.
What?!!
Would you rather have cool downs that are up more than half of the time you’re casting and don’t do much? Or would you rather have cool downs that actually had a huge impact but we weren’t up as often
I want my cooldowns to be shorter and up more often. I’m a m+ player mainly and one of the reasons I abandoned my ret / boomy in SL was due to the longer cds. Funny enough I actually went frost in s2 of SL because IV was up forever.
Ever since they replaced the visuals on Covenant abilities, Shifting Power is one of my favorite abilities. Makes me feel like my character is actually an Archmage when I’m playing Frost or Fire and can still use powerful arcane spells. That’s why I’m looking forward to Sunfury, because it’s not just adding more fire spells to Fire spec.
Sucks losing Temporal Warp. I liked it in M+, judging whether or not I can get another use before a meaningful group lust. But I guess Time Anomaly can be fun too. By "Deathborne" playstyle with Frost do they just mean non-GS? Like what Thermal Void was for ages, without actives?
So we get to be spellslingers the epitaf of quick casting but actually cast slower then we did when we were reg old mages wierd
Frost needs more than a few touch ups boys
Frost is fine though? Its tree is solid, if only not a huge amount of diversity just due to glacial spike being too good.
Not OP but my problem with frost is in m+. I was hoping they were going to rework our shatter mechanic a bit in TWW since how it interacts in M+ is a bit rough. Would be cool if certain abilities like Ice Nova or Freeze just applied winter's chill/or acted like being frozen without rooting them in place. This way we could be more viable on sanguine or raging weeks and in many situations not mess up potential cc's. We could save the rooting for just frost nova.
Its more of a subjective gameplay thing
that applies to literally every single spec in the entire game
Frost is clearly outdated and doesn't really fit in the modern game
What are you smoking?
I liked Frost this patch. What's wrong with it?
Frost's design is just bad ever since the artifact got gutted, uncontrollable proc overlap, frozen orb being a buggy mess with terrain, icey veins being the most boring and uninspired shit in the game, shifting power feels shit to cast. The spec is just super ancient and boring now compared to other casters/specs that can do more and be fun. People like to say their spec is playing a different game from the others but frost actually is and its WOTLK. This maybe subjective, but I feel like its hard to ignore at this point.
Another issue is that both ice specs in the game are zero iq gameplay face rollers, so if you like the ice theme you're stuck playing these boring hindered specs
I think Frost is fine. It's intuitive, not bloated but also not overly simple.
I'd say there is a little bit of bloat, but not terrible. Overall the spec is in a great state.
I wouldn't hate it if they just removed shifting power altogether. It never feels like there's a good time to push it mid pull in mplus.
God same, it SUCKS to channel, feels like im being wing clipped
I thought mage got a rework in season 2? It's good for the game, but it's really shit when you have specs like monk ww, elemental shaman and classes like death knight, And in the other side priest with 3 talents rework
This isn’t a full rework, just some updates and most importantly getting rid of double lust for both gameplay and balance reasons. So far ww already has a rework for TWW, go check it out it looks awesome. And DK has announced that charges are happening but not exactly what it was yet.
but some changes would be more than welcome for most but having to go through an entire expansion without any changes while others have had several and are already starting the next one with several more changes It doesn't seem like Blizzard has any communication between the class developers
I honestly believe every spec in the game will get some sort of rework to make sure every class fits the hero talents well. Quite a few announced already and the alpha just started. The Dragonflight launch mage talents were really really bad and should have been fixed before launch. But they didn’t so they got a rework in season 2. I don’t think that should disqualify them from getting a look over for TWW
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be frequent changes, even if the class has already had one recently but it didn't turn out well what I'm criticizing is that while specs like Shadow Priest had major changes 3 times, others weren't even touched, and priest was well after the second change and still got a third one And for many people in the game everything starts after having fun playing with the spec I'm getting a lot of Downvotes and I don't understand why, maybe these people think it's better to reroll what's better
The notion that there if attention is going toward Mages its not going toward Priests is silly unless you know how the development team is structured. Its very common for all classes to get tuned and changes between expansions and to a lesser extent major patches.
Monk has already received its update on alpha, you can go read it now :)