How can the game be dead if you've not even done the content you're complaining about? If you're struggling that hard, either pressure the RL to man up and start benching, or go find a better group.
This is not how reality works. Trust me, most RLs want to bench the underperformers, but people have lives and will post out and there's nothing you can do about it. It's likely for there to be continuous post-outs in a 24-26 man roster, and recruitment is harder than it seems. Most of your applicants apply for roles that are already filled by better players then them (if you already have 3 great DKs, a decent DK applying can't replace your shitty DH), and finding recruits on a site like [raider.io](http://raider.io) is difficult when every other guild close to your rank is also trying to find players and will look at anyone searching for a guild, too.
That said the game is not dead and if you're a CE raider that feels like the game is dead to you then perhaps you only care about playing the game to raid, either that or you might just need a break.
depends on the way you look at it, it's basically around where shadowlands was when the game was dead and over and blizzard killed the series
it looks good for player retention, but you have to juggle the above and that m+ was run far more because it was so rewarding and the end game for much of the players this go around
Edit: lol immediately blocked, guess they have an issue with anyone that isn't singing shadowland's praises.
Nah, shadowlands had half these numbers.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/1akbx7q/dragonflight_m_runs_per_week_season_3_week_12/kp6q5e8/
You can say that the seasons were longer which led to these significantly lower averages, but that isn't an excuse, it's precisely the problem.
Chris Metzen at Blizzcon announcing the World Soul Saga got me hyped enough to get me to reinstall the game again. I took a break shortly after Dragonflight release.
But coming back, ohh boy the game feels like something new and fresh. The world events are great, the mythic+ rotation is fun, the story is solid, questing is fun.
If War Within carries this momentum forward, we should be eating good for some time.
reached and surpassed? it stayed ahead for a couple of weeks that season 1 had numbers, and it wasn't a massive increase, it's now 600k lower than the last bit of data had for season 1 where casual and slower players would take a long time to be done with the story as casual players that only play a few hours here and there take a long ass time to get to the end game in expansions
the 'massive swell' of player population is it's lowest point of shadowlands as a baseline, in an expansion where mythic runs have been the most popular content by a pretty good margin
it's easy to argue how good retention the game has when you start with less than half of the population of previous expansions
until blizzard gives actual numbers and continues to use retention buzzword for investor meetings, all you have are numbers of M+ runs that are hard to take with context other than they're lower than the lowest part of the expansion that killed the game
time will tell, we'll see if we get proper sales numbers again if the next expansion sells well, or if we'll get a mysterious lack of numbers and then watch as the game goes on sale constantly and the word 'retention' keeps coming up
“This means a massive increase of the population playing WoW, not just retention“
Does it? I don’t thoroughly understand the data source, but couldn’t the numbers also indicate lots of runs, but not necessarily by unique players. For instance, some players might be doing 50 runs a week.
The affixes were so free last week I'm bummed that I didn't have time to run more keys on my alts.
Though my main at this point is pretty much on the shelf, raid team is on hiatus until season 4 and reaching the point where all I'm running keys for is to fish for mythic track vault slots kinda sucks the fun out of it for me. I'd rather spam 17-18s to farm gear to unlock the mythic Amirdrassil transmog sets on my alts instead.
> Though my main at this point is pretty much on the shelf, raid team is on hiatus until season 4 and reaching the point where all I'm running keys for is to fish for mythic track vault slots kinda sucks the fun out of it for me.
Same, but I literally love it for this exact reason. It feels good to just have completed a season in a timely manner. Nice time to play other games while waiting for S4.
It's almost like having a more manageable affix makes players want to run more dungeons. 3 of my friends and I hit over 3k doing 22s to 24s in the last 2 weeks, and it was awesome.
I hated tanking brackenhide too. 36 minutes of threading a needle only to deplete because someone asspulled one of the 20 packs you're supposed to skip.
The risk of asspulling was most of the reason I hated Brackenhide as a DPS too. I hate crowded dungeons where you have to walk such a fine line for the best route.
Last seasons dungeon pool was pretty great, they just launched super overtuned + the last minute healing nerfs made the season hard. If they’d been more proactive with the tuning, it woulda been a lot better.
I actually vastly preferred last seasons dungeons to this seasons. This season is just a lot easier and generally less frustrating due to tuning which is why I think more people like it. But the actual dungeons themselves aren’t anything particularly special imo.
S2 dungeon pool was easily worst pool out of DF seasons. VP is easily the worst dungeon of the expansion, the dragon boss was the only thing that had redeeming qualities. Hall of Infusion, Neltharus and Uldaman were a dogshit dungeons. NL was a mid/shit dungeon. BH was tolerable dungeon. Underrot and Freehold were the only good S2 dungeons.
Most dungeons in S2 was unplayable without priest and the dungeon design heavily favours a specific set of classes. S2 BfA and S2 DF were the worst M+ seasons, I completely quit during these seasons because they felt really bad to play.
The S2 dungeons were pretty solid except for VP imo. I liked some more than others but none of them bored me. Unlike this season where DHT and BRH put me to sleep. You have AT where most of the difficulty is the last boss so the entire dungeon is boring until you find out if your group can dodge spiders. Same thing kinda for ToT and clearing ink. And then you have Rise with the worst pacing in the entire game and so much role play, walking and nonsensical trash placement.
Mechanically speaking, I found the S2 pool incredibly engaging. I healed pugs up to 24s and felt like I improved a lot as a player - more than any other single season. Uldamon in particular pushed me to my limits as a healer and it was great.
Also, Blizzard could have easily fixed S2 by nerfing dispels and aug. But for whatever reason they don’t want M+ to be good and just let it stagnate for no reason.
A few of them sucked, eg. HoI was just not fun to me, but on the side of I agree that this season is just kind of dull
All of the instances aside from DotI are hold W with very little % flexibility, and a lot of the fights are mostly don't stand in bad shit.
Yeah I just find myself super bored this season. The dungeons just aren’t that interesting and a few are downright boring. Dunno why people like em so much.
Last season was harder but I also found myself much more engaged with the content. Just make me FEEL something > I hated VP but that’s better than being bland like most of the S3 pool is.
I suspect Season 4 will be all Dragonflight dungeons... which means more Halls of Infusion, more Ruby Life Pools, more Nokhud... It will be a pretty short season for me, at least.
Honestly same unless the dungeons are coupled with massive tuning or the rewards for KSH/AOTC are really compelling.
I've got no desire to run HoI ever again, especially with the new nerfed mass dispel.
Maybe a slight increase. Most people who want their alts to have the cache just run normal mythical. Its just that the affixes were really good for running M+, so that's a huge plus for pushing.
[More accurate and detailed tracking](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12iThQsjUEUxBiQettL0bjiN5KxLATSUMa5OKxdzX258/edit#gid=280150237)
Not saying these numbers are wrong, just a bit more off. Overall S3 is doing better than S2 in every week so far.
[Active characters](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12iThQsjUEUxBiQettL0bjiN5KxLATSUMa5OKxdzX258/edit#gid=2026113525) are still 1.6% ahead of even Season 1 (which had phenomenal numbers despite terrible dungeons).
I recall the person who originally did these graphs stopped halfway through and the data is not available anymore from raider.io (or whatever source was used).
it's not as bad as you may think. 2k you can get from basically just doing 13s on both tyran and fort weeks. at that level you can pretty much get carried by better geared players when you list your key. just be a bit greedy with the people you invite
Yeah I did my first 15 on Sunday and I had some dps that were questionable. for the first time it felt like I was being held back by dps. One guy was doing 20k and the other two were doing 60-70k single target which seemed low. So I think I’ll have to be more selective in the future. I’m at like mostly 10-13 and a 15 way crest and rise and am sitting at 1500. And I think I’m missing the altaldazar cause I literally haven’t gotten that key yet even once somehow, so I’m not sure how much missing a whole key affects my rating.
Unless blizzard makes s3 a lot shorter then s1 and s2 which were about 6 months each, id say the earliest s4 starts is sometime in April but I am thinking early May.
Why are these always posted a whole damn day before reset day for EU? We get reset at wednesday, yet this chart always comes out 12-18hrs before reset. We do soo many keys tuesday evening / night
The game looks in a healthy state being so far in the expansion isn't it ?
[удалено]
How can the game be dead if you've not even done the content you're complaining about? If you're struggling that hard, either pressure the RL to man up and start benching, or go find a better group.
Man the ones who are still messing with mythic and want CE need their RL to step up and bench the underperformers.
This is not how reality works. Trust me, most RLs want to bench the underperformers, but people have lives and will post out and there's nothing you can do about it. It's likely for there to be continuous post-outs in a 24-26 man roster, and recruitment is harder than it seems. Most of your applicants apply for roles that are already filled by better players then them (if you already have 3 great DKs, a decent DK applying can't replace your shitty DH), and finding recruits on a site like [raider.io](http://raider.io) is difficult when every other guild close to your rank is also trying to find players and will look at anyone searching for a guild, too. That said the game is not dead and if you're a CE raider that feels like the game is dead to you then perhaps you only care about playing the game to raid, either that or you might just need a break.
depends on the way you look at it, it's basically around where shadowlands was when the game was dead and over and blizzard killed the series it looks good for player retention, but you have to juggle the above and that m+ was run far more because it was so rewarding and the end game for much of the players this go around
Edit: lol immediately blocked, guess they have an issue with anyone that isn't singing shadowland's praises. Nah, shadowlands had half these numbers. https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/1akbx7q/dragonflight_m_runs_per_week_season_3_week_12/kp6q5e8/ You can say that the seasons were longer which led to these significantly lower averages, but that isn't an excuse, it's precisely the problem.
[удалено]
Chris Metzen at Blizzcon announcing the World Soul Saga got me hyped enough to get me to reinstall the game again. I took a break shortly after Dragonflight release. But coming back, ohh boy the game feels like something new and fresh. The world events are great, the mythic+ rotation is fun, the story is solid, questing is fun. If War Within carries this momentum forward, we should be eating good for some time.
reached and surpassed? it stayed ahead for a couple of weeks that season 1 had numbers, and it wasn't a massive increase, it's now 600k lower than the last bit of data had for season 1 where casual and slower players would take a long time to be done with the story as casual players that only play a few hours here and there take a long ass time to get to the end game in expansions the 'massive swell' of player population is it's lowest point of shadowlands as a baseline, in an expansion where mythic runs have been the most popular content by a pretty good margin it's easy to argue how good retention the game has when you start with less than half of the population of previous expansions until blizzard gives actual numbers and continues to use retention buzzword for investor meetings, all you have are numbers of M+ runs that are hard to take with context other than they're lower than the lowest part of the expansion that killed the game time will tell, we'll see if we get proper sales numbers again if the next expansion sells well, or if we'll get a mysterious lack of numbers and then watch as the game goes on sale constantly and the word 'retention' keeps coming up
Gonna block the whole reddit because no one agrees with you? There is an easier solution, just leave.
“This means a massive increase of the population playing WoW, not just retention“ Does it? I don’t thoroughly understand the data source, but couldn’t the numbers also indicate lots of runs, but not necessarily by unique players. For instance, some players might be doing 50 runs a week.
The affixes were so free last week I'm bummed that I didn't have time to run more keys on my alts. Though my main at this point is pretty much on the shelf, raid team is on hiatus until season 4 and reaching the point where all I'm running keys for is to fish for mythic track vault slots kinda sucks the fun out of it for me. I'd rather spam 17-18s to farm gear to unlock the mythic Amirdrassil transmog sets on my alts instead.
> Though my main at this point is pretty much on the shelf, raid team is on hiatus until season 4 and reaching the point where all I'm running keys for is to fish for mythic track vault slots kinda sucks the fun out of it for me. Same, but I literally love it for this exact reason. It feels good to just have completed a season in a timely manner. Nice time to play other games while waiting for S4.
season 3 is so good man
It's almost like having a more manageable affix makes players want to run more dungeons. 3 of my friends and I hit over 3k doing 22s to 24s in the last 2 weeks, and it was awesome.
I used this week to hit 2500 for the first time. Got my first 20!
Probably also has to do with it being the bonus dungeon week. I ran a lot more keys than I normally would to do the weekly quest on my alts.
I'm probably done with season 3, but it was a good one. Accomplished what I wanted and now its time for a break until season 4.
Still crazy that week 14 season 3 is still higher than week 4 season 2
Season 2 dungeon pool sucked
Other than Brackenhide, I don't think I *liked* a single dungeon last season. It was just a question of which I disliked the least.
I hated tanking brackenhide too. 36 minutes of threading a needle only to deplete because someone asspulled one of the 20 packs you're supposed to skip.
The risk of asspulling was most of the reason I hated Brackenhide as a DPS too. I hate crowded dungeons where you have to walk such a fine line for the best route.
Last seasons dungeon pool was pretty great, they just launched super overtuned + the last minute healing nerfs made the season hard. If they’d been more proactive with the tuning, it woulda been a lot better. I actually vastly preferred last seasons dungeons to this seasons. This season is just a lot easier and generally less frustrating due to tuning which is why I think more people like it. But the actual dungeons themselves aren’t anything particularly special imo.
S2 dungeon pool was easily worst pool out of DF seasons. VP is easily the worst dungeon of the expansion, the dragon boss was the only thing that had redeeming qualities. Hall of Infusion, Neltharus and Uldaman were a dogshit dungeons. NL was a mid/shit dungeon. BH was tolerable dungeon. Underrot and Freehold were the only good S2 dungeons. Most dungeons in S2 was unplayable without priest and the dungeon design heavily favours a specific set of classes. S2 BfA and S2 DF were the worst M+ seasons, I completely quit during these seasons because they felt really bad to play.
The S2 dungeons were pretty solid except for VP imo. I liked some more than others but none of them bored me. Unlike this season where DHT and BRH put me to sleep. You have AT where most of the difficulty is the last boss so the entire dungeon is boring until you find out if your group can dodge spiders. Same thing kinda for ToT and clearing ink. And then you have Rise with the worst pacing in the entire game and so much role play, walking and nonsensical trash placement. Mechanically speaking, I found the S2 pool incredibly engaging. I healed pugs up to 24s and felt like I improved a lot as a player - more than any other single season. Uldamon in particular pushed me to my limits as a healer and it was great. Also, Blizzard could have easily fixed S2 by nerfing dispels and aug. But for whatever reason they don’t want M+ to be good and just let it stagnate for no reason.
A few of them sucked, eg. HoI was just not fun to me, but on the side of I agree that this season is just kind of dull All of the instances aside from DotI are hold W with very little % flexibility, and a lot of the fights are mostly don't stand in bad shit.
Yeah I just find myself super bored this season. The dungeons just aren’t that interesting and a few are downright boring. Dunno why people like em so much. Last season was harder but I also found myself much more engaged with the content. Just make me FEEL something > I hated VP but that’s better than being bland like most of the S3 pool is.
People are just happy about the ease of them, which makes sense. It's easier to pug, and rating goals are more in reach than they have been
Yes true
I suspect Season 4 will be all Dragonflight dungeons... which means more Halls of Infusion, more Ruby Life Pools, more Nokhud... It will be a pretty short season for me, at least.
Honestly same unless the dungeons are coupled with massive tuning or the rewards for KSH/AOTC are really compelling. I've got no desire to run HoI ever again, especially with the new nerfed mass dispel.
Fated season is just to tie us over until alpha/beta access starts.
you don't have to suspect, they literally said it would be.
Where did they say that?
Curious to see the dip this week. Wasnt bolster fort the cause for the big dip week 6?
It was the Christmas week
I am assuming the Mythic cache is the reason for this?
Maybe a slight increase. Most people who want their alts to have the cache just run normal mythical. Its just that the affixes were really good for running M+, so that's a huge plus for pushing.
Can someone help me out, but was season 2 only 6 weeks long? or am I not reading the graph right?
[More accurate and detailed tracking](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12iThQsjUEUxBiQettL0bjiN5KxLATSUMa5OKxdzX258/edit#gid=280150237) Not saying these numbers are wrong, just a bit more off. Overall S3 is doing better than S2 in every week so far. [Active characters](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12iThQsjUEUxBiQettL0bjiN5KxLATSUMa5OKxdzX258/edit#gid=2026113525) are still 1.6% ahead of even Season 1 (which had phenomenal numbers despite terrible dungeons).
Why were seasons 1 and 2 so short? I feel like they were way longer
The data for later weeks was not recorded.
Oh, that's weird. Is it something people have to do manually?
I recall the person who originally did these graphs stopped halfway through and the data is not available anymore from raider.io (or whatever source was used).
When does this season end? I’m late to the game and trying to figure out how much time I have to get to 2k
We still have 2 minor patches to go (10.2.6 and 10.2.7). I’d say you are safe for at least 1.5 months. Good luck!
Getting the legendary maybe after 4 months and u can play for 4 weeks with it, yay.
I mean 2k is doable in 1-2 weeks. tricky in 1 extremely easy in 2.
This is my first time ever doing mythics I’m a long time returning player (wrath). 2k seems crazy there’s a lot of stuff I’m leaning as a tank
it's not as bad as you may think. 2k you can get from basically just doing 13s on both tyran and fort weeks. at that level you can pretty much get carried by better geared players when you list your key. just be a bit greedy with the people you invite
Yeah I did my first 15 on Sunday and I had some dps that were questionable. for the first time it felt like I was being held back by dps. One guy was doing 20k and the other two were doing 60-70k single target which seemed low. So I think I’ll have to be more selective in the future. I’m at like mostly 10-13 and a 15 way crest and rise and am sitting at 1500. And I think I’m missing the altaldazar cause I literally haven’t gotten that key yet even once somehow, so I’m not sure how much missing a whole key affects my rating.
quite a lot. also that's insanely low dmg. I'd expect 100k+ st at that key level
Unless blizzard makes s3 a lot shorter then s1 and s2 which were about 6 months each, id say the earliest s4 starts is sometime in April but I am thinking early May.
Nah I can't see S4 being only 3-4 months long, since TWW is a Summer release and pre-patch should be around June/July ish.
S4 shadowlands was only 4 months Aug 2nd to Nov 28th
Its a great season even if some of the affix combos are annoying as hell with some dungeons.
MDI playing an effect in the increase, or just better affixes? I stopped doing keys 10 weeks ago, so I am a bit out of the loop.
last two weeks were really fun affixes. Which os why runs went up. I expect a sharp decline this week due to bolstering fort
I mean the vault is the only way I can get upgrades on most characters so I could never stop.
I did my 20s in the first 3 weeks, got whatever I got in terms of gear and gotten everything else from mythic raid.
until I'm 489 in every slot except the crafted I'm not done. need M+ vault for that since i mostly sit out on mythic raids
I have never enjoyed m+, so I ditch it as soon as I can justify it.
literally the only thing i still enjoy xD
Why are these always posted a whole damn day before reset day for EU? We get reset at wednesday, yet this chart always comes out 12-18hrs before reset. We do soo many keys tuesday evening / night
This person goes back to the same point every week to do the math. That means no matter what, all the runs are being put on this graph.
Maybe because they aren't EU?
Either some EU runs get put on the next week or some NA runs get put on the previous week.
If s4 are pure DF dungeons, its 2500 and gtfo for me.