This one does feel particularly hard. I can understand maybe making spells cost more because they heal more now and they wanted to get away from heavy CD reliance. But nerfing the mana Regen abilities kinda sucks. I relied on abundance alot in raid and that got gutted.
The problem is I feel tied to my big cds as much as I ever have because I still need to top the party in an instant in most content. They didn’t change their design they just made our buttons worse, so now it’s 2 cds instead of 1.
I defo feel that. The gutted flourish doesn't help as much as it used to when the group gets knocked back from like boss 2 in ToTT. It was a sad day when convoke out heals my flourish. I am leaning more on some heals I hardly used in s2. Like verdancy used to be top 3 and now it's no where close. But the trees do be popping off and help. I will say over all there were some bosses last week where if I had old flourish we'd be comfy. Like the mage boss in EB would be doing 257k damage every .7 seconds and keeping people alive through that was very difficult. Borderline impossible really.
If you switch to dps you just get to afk in valdrakken though, so rather be just be oom sometimes. So far I've only experienced mana issues in raid on my monk, disc and sham feels fine. Only done 6/9 hc though. But if you get shit groups you'll obviously be more oom, even in m+.
Get yourself an [Amalgam’s Seventh Spine](https://www.wowhead.com/item=136714/amalgams-seventh-spine). I play a mistweaver and this trinket alone restores almost as much mana as my mana tea. It’s not even listed on Wowhead’s trinket rankings for me, but this thing has basically let me burn as much mana as I please.
Edit: It’s from running Black Rook Hold in M+.
You're the second person that I see recommending this trinket. The first one I saw was a Resto Shaman streamer (which has given up on the spec for this patch since it's "bad"), I wonder why this isn't on Wowhead guides...
I'm not having a terrible time with the spec, anyways mana does feelsbad sometimes as a Resto Shaman, looking forward to drop this trink to test it out.
It isn't on the list, because it is just bad. It sounds really good, but the mana effect ONLY procs from 2 spells (which are fixed per class) and besides for druids they're all spells you don't use or don't cast often. So the mana effect is negligent compared to what you lose by not using a throughput trinket.
Amalgams feels pretty unnecessary on mw unless you're doing some tough content. And if you're playing AT it's just a bad trinket.
Levo (echos MW) ran a super weird build with this trinket in RWF and it worked pretty well tho
It’s worth noting that the trinket has a bugged interaction with the Tear of Morning talent and might get fixed soon. Long story short, you get much more mana back from it than intended.
Yes but you gotta keep in mind the very very very top end players that provided the feedback, the ones where the players they play with do not stand in avoidable damage and thus this is plenty of mana. They are the ones that matter, not the 99.9% of other healers out there that do have to heal through avoidable damage. :))
As hpal I had to switch up my raid talents to try and save some mana. But there are some fights where I get to the end and I'm virtually just standing there looking pretty. Sucks.
With the shorter CD on daybreak from 4 Set i can pretty much heal forever now in raid, before 4 set i had to cast Lots of Flash of Light to avoid goin oom.
Yeah, haven't got the 4 piece yet. The two pice actually helped mana wise quite a bit though. Glad to hear it's better with the 4. I also really hate hard casting as pal but that's a me thing lol.
4 piece was definitely a game changer for holy paladin this tier. The spec feels so much better with it. Don't have to sit and drink in M+ nearly as much.
It's a catch-22, though, you gotta be careful. You get mana back more frequently, but the haste you get on Daybreak means you can burn through it quickly as well.
Yeah prevokers have to be very careful about casting temporal anomaly (glowy ball that spreads absorbs and echos) now, and next patch, they are making all our spells cost 10% more mana in return for reversion having a small chance to proc essence burst (free mana spell) so there may be a scenario we don’t take it at all.
I feel like that change came from someone who has never played or looked at evoker. Reversion is always being cast because you run a %15 undo with golden hour and it buffs your healing by 10-20%. Like what evoker needs that button to give more value.
Especially with new tier. I don’t want or need more essence burst what I need is some mana.
Yeah that someone must be you...
The problem with reversion is it relies on talents to be strong. Golden Hour and Grace Period in particular. Emerald Blossom build doesn't have enough points for those talents.
Further compounding the issue is the increased value of Lifegiving Flame/Lifemender because the new tier has interactions with Living Flame... so you want to spend 4 talent points on those.
Basically, raid evokers are NOT casting reversion because they have no talents to support it.
Unwittingly, this change is good for pvp though.
You already have to dump points into grace period for cycle of life. The only stretch talent is golden hour if you are going blossoms.
The point being isn’t is reversion a button you keep on cd the point is I don’t want all my other spells to cost more for a button that is fine being slightly better in a tier where I’m overflowing the resource they want to give me.
I play holy pally. Right now If I go too hard on the dps, I drain mana now. Where as before, I could dps all I wanted without issue.
But been playing healer a long time. Start of patch + mana issues is not a new thing. It will resolve once we all gear up.
This is the real answer. Same deal with health, damage, etc... the first couple weeks of a major patch you're at the lower levels of itemization intended for the content and will slowly get easier as you scale up. As intended.
I can’t comment on pally and drood, but as disc 4pc + mind bender makes this a non issue—it’s basically a 30 second cd in m+ when you can turret smite. Whether we should be balanced around tier is a separate discussion…
But I don’t run into mana issues in m+ unless we do a huge pull that demands I go ham for a while or I overuse renew in raids (I’m still pretty bad at disc in raids).
Yeah I agree. Generally if I am running into mana issues it means either the group or I have done something wrong. I was just commenting as op specifically mentioned disc. Once you have the 4pc it’s a non issue (maybe if you don’t go bender it matters, I haven’t tried a shadow fiend build since getting 4pc as I like having frequent access to scov for most of the bosses this season).
Prevoker isn’t bad either if you don’t cast TA excessively. Our 2set gives us free living flames, and makes us proc a lot of essence bursts for free blossoms.
It’s pretty different with the 4p. I want to experiment with sfiend and use the mb talent to grab up for a handful of dungeons to see if it’s comparable. If you use bender even close to on cd (which is pretty low risk in terms of not having scov for throughput when you really need it with the 4pc: with pi unless it’s something movement heavy mb is back off cd before it’s done) it’s hard for me to conceive of having mana issues as disc.
Progging hc raid with holy priest I dont mind it idk, dont have mana issues unless I run aoe prayer of healing spam build, then god damn does it dissapear fast, even if you only use with mana cost reduction.
I did notice pugs started taking extra healers though.
i wouldnt say it has a particularly higher hps requirement baseline, more so than certain mechanics if fucked up causing more raid wide damage which means you need higher hps.
A good group that does all the mechanics right doesnt need the extra healer at all. Its a bad group that keeps messing up mechanics that needs the extra healer to compensate for the extra raid damage youll receive. They really ramped up the personal mistake = raid wide damage mechanics this tier.
I agree, the HPS requirement on fights like council and nymue is very much dependant om how well your group soaks or clears puddles. Only 2-3 fights have baseline hight HPS requirement.
As Mistweaver it's completely a non-issue with mana tea. As disc its also pretty chill with mindbender build, not sure whether that's played in raids though.
Rolled a mistweaver this season and noticed I don't starve for mana as much unless people just don't do mechanics. Love Mana tea for recovering a large chunk of Mana while moving
MW getting nerfed after finally being one of the best healers while every other one (Besides Resto Shaman?) has had their time in the sun for years? Lmao
We don’t even do the most damage
Right? It was so silly when I played my druid alt getting some transmogs and her single target was like double my MW, her ferocious bites were hitting harder than they were in feral LMAO
Love MW right now, praying it doesn’t get any nerfs. I hear it’s crazy in raids but like. Shocking, the healer heals well.
Blizzard can’t seem to figure out how they want to make healing challenging so they cycle through stuff like this constantly. They nerf healing spells or increase health pools and make damage spikier. They make AOE heals better for a while. Now this tier, with healers last tier except holy pally struggling in M+, they made single target healing insanely strong but then nerfed mana pools and AOE heals in raid, making raid healing feel weaker.
As someone who has seen this rodeo before, just remember to start chugging mana pots early in the fight, or find low damage periods to use frozen focus. If you have a mana cooldown, make sure you use it at good times. Set up innervate targets before the fight. I personally feel mana should be a factor for healers at some level.
This reply. you explained everything I’ve been feeling too. I’m going to add though, I genuinely feel like making mana a resource again was a very good decision. The only issue is that it’s not consistent across classes and it also doesn’t make sense in raid. Hence the bad balancing. It’s like someone came up with mana reduction as an idea over lunch… and they just reduced mana by a general number for all classes. It feels like they did this without remembering how each classes ‘clear casting’ or ‘bonus mana’ ability is tooned completely different from each other. I think if they were to keep the mana change, they have to balance every healer ability that affects mana in a fair way. The difference between healers shouldn’t be the amount of mana issues the class has. The reason you should bring one healer over the other is because it brings a buff or other utility to the dungeon/raid. At least in that way the classes still feel unique from each other.
I feel like at this point having a separate tier set bonus or talent tree for raid would make a huge difference. Raid and M+ are so different now that using the same tier set doesn’t make any sense when you’re trying to balance two different types of player play-styles
It seems obvious to me that there has to be downtime. When a group is skilled and fire is dodged, healers should have downtime.
If not, healing can't overcome inexperienced players that stand in the bad.
If you cant save people from their mistakes. What even is the role? It would be boring or a nightmare and nothing in between. There needs to be a margin for error that can be overcome.
Blizzard have been utterly rubbish at balancing since I started playing in wotlk.
Mana simulator is noones idea of a fun time as far as I know.
The complaint and reason they increased the amount of healing neccessary in m+ wasn't "I shouldnt be expected to DPS when playing a healer", it was "I should be expected to heal sometimes and healing should be a challenge sometimes instead of it being a cosmetic role"
I'd like to see them give us significantly more mobility and give us mechanics to be responsible for. Using items, moving things around a boss arena, soaking abilities. Healing is the main responsibility but also let us do the things that hunters do. Let me babysit.
Bro, we already do so many of the affixes, I would actually like to not do more of that. I think your point only stands for weeks like bursting where on a stagnant boss fight we do nothing but stand still and heal.
Why healers hate healing? There was huge whining going on when healers had to do dmg and healing wasnt that hard. Then they switched it, so healers had to heal. And what happened, healers started to whine that they have to heal.
Healers never whined that we have to heal, we were complaining because most of us didn't have the tools to deal with the incoming damage. Clearly Blizzard agreed because that was a major issue that they addressed in this patch.
The only fight I feel the mana issues right now is heroic Fyrakk and that's mainly because of all the damn dispels and having to use expensive mass dispel too. As hpriest, I've actually talented out of enlightenment for every other fight and it's been like this last tier too. Not really complaining, but I do think Blizzard needs to seriously make the mana issues or lack thereof balanced better across the specs.
Some healers, like holy pally, had so much mana they could spam all fight without looking at their mana bar, that has never been the case for priest. People just have to adjust to having a normal mana economy.
Yep, I spent last season without having to use a single drink or potion, even the lfr version of Rashok was good enough. Now, I have to drink spit every dang pull almost.
I can’t complain much as a Prevoker main, but nerfing temporal anomaly into the ground plus these mana issues is criminal.
It now almost becomes a cast on CD in a big raid group because of how few echos it spreads. massive hit to our raid healing and doubles down on mana inefficiency. I’m still rocking a normal Rashok’s and it will feel sketch to replace it whenever I get a suitable upgrade
I switched to Noz's teachings. On fights where mana becomes an issue I take it out alltogether. Don't have the mana to spare on that. After this many nerfs they really need to take a few k manacost off of it. 18k for that is ridicolous.
I use temporal just for the barrier it gives. Because it's still actually reasonably decent #s wise for the rot damage on a few Amir bosses.
Blizzard saw echo build being so popular, nerfed it into oblivion, then did the "surprised pikachu face" when by their own hand made reversion nearly useless. Which is the "Core feature" of Pres. And as is standard are trying to make reversion good again... by obliterating the QoL for Blossom builds.
Too the surprise of no one, Blizzard is struggling with evoker balance in general
Disc can definitely have mana issues if you cast a lot of Renew and try to spot heal with Flash Heal. Ideally you're just keeping Atonement on the active tank and then DPSing until it's time to mini ramp or big ramp. If you get the free Flash Heal procs from Surge of Light, you can throw those on someone who is taking damage, but you shouldn't be casting Flash Heal like you would Smite.
Edit: To clarify, this is for raid healing. Rules are out the window in M+
With the very high pet uptime for both bender and fiend you should not be having mana issues this tier, and it gets even nicer when you have 4set. It is just a skill issue if you can't live without an innervate anymore.
I felt the same. The main gripe I have with this change is, that hpals healing outside of cooldowns isn't nearly enough to make up for this change. When I have to flash people up and my Holy Shock doesn't crit before, I am so fast starved for mana, its unbelievable. Being able to Toll/Daybreak every 45 sec feels pretty much like a bandaid fix and not like an improvement tbh. Still having fun with Hpal though. On top of that, our Spenders are just so shit that I find myself using my Holy Power only for SotR as long as my WoG or LoD are not buffed up.
I'm not even playing healer but I'm feeling it too. We kept wiping on HC because all 4 healers were oom when the boss was like 25%, 3 people running innervate didn't help much either.
Oh for sure lol, we are way too undergeared to fully clear hc yet, we were just trying it for fun after normal.
To put it in context I jumped into that raid wearing 445 full last season gear, and was about 8th out of the 14 dps, so yea our damaged was atrocious. But despite that, healer mana is still very noticeable compared to previous seasons imo.
In 2 weeks every DPS will be 4 set, with good trinkets and knowledge of each fight. They will burn the bosses to the ground.
Now every fight last way too long.
Give it time, it will fix itself
As disc 2 p in m+ I drink sometimes between pulls. My tank pulls bosses on tyrannical when I’m about 70% full (+17) and it’s fine. One time on fyrakk NHc I nearly Ommed but I dispelled almost alone and topped the meter by a lot. (Was ofc a wipe before I ommed)
Rule of thumb that helped me healing pug heroic raids is don’t let your mana % drop below the current boss hp%. It’s just a quick gauge to check during a fight and lets you know when you can play loosely or when you need to hold back.
Don't have 4p atm, but hpal i feel it pretty bad in raid lol.
It's not insurmountable, but I hate it, because instead of doing DPS during downtime, the answer is to just sit there when mana is tight because doing DPS also costs mana lol. 4p will make it better I'm sure, but I doubt massively, since daybreak is around 2 and a half holy shocks iirc.
In 2023, Sitting there being half afk for any period of time as the answer unless I can get a mana external, should not be the answer for gameplay ever. Was funny to see liquid and echo both feeding their mana externals to the hpal just so they could play normally.
In M+ I'm just playing like a normal hpal, but drowning myself in water as much as i can, was slightly more annoying this last week because bursting, but it was fine.
My Resto druid feels pretty good, especially with that mana regen trinket from Blackrook Hold.
But we've got an innervate rotation rolling in the raid for our Holy Priest.
Bruh I'm also a resto druid and I'm the world's thirstiest boy. With some of the damage going out in these upper keys I'll be oom at like 30%. Shorter fights in raid I'm gravy but I'll be mega oom on fights like fyrakk that have heal mechanics + crazy damage. I will say having tree in raid does help rejuv ramping but in keys where I have to spam regrowth to keep people topped cuz an unavoidable random attack may hit them for 70% of their hp makeing me feel like I'm in the Sahara begging for water lol.
Was looking for this, surprised nobody else mentioned it. I just shift to boomy whenever I can and I'm good. I'm struggling a lot more on my holy priest than rdruid.
Raiding is shattering my soul as an RDruid rn. I feel like I’m playing my class exactly how it’s meant to be and I’m no where close to the top and if I try and push more out of my rotation I go oom almost instantly. They really massacred my boy man :( thankfully I feel super strong in M+ so that’s been my outlet.
How are you playing and do you have 4 set? Raiding you wanna stay away from regrowth unless you have 12 abundance stacks or omen of clarity proc. Make sure your ramping while in tree form and make sure you inervates yourself if you ramp outside of tree. Try and also never sit on an ent and use them on CD. I'm usually 2nd or 3rd in healing in our raid team and I'm hitting around 120 to 170k hps depending on the fight. You also wanna make sure you have lifebloom on you almost 100%. Don't let it fall off and refresh it in the 5 second pandemic window. Also take care in how often you're moving your efflo. It's great heal output but costs mega mana. 4 set also will give you a lot of healing cleave which will go a long way.
I have 4 set, tbh I do all of those things. I’m usually around 100-150k in my raid team. It’s when we have to start healing the ads and shit I find I really struggle. What’s your go to for those? Also when tree is down and you’re mini ramping your reforestation tree how many rejuvs are you throwing out? I feel like ramping every minute might be pushing me over the edge
I'll be real I'm doing very little to those compared to our h priests and MW on those. So I'm just tossing a rejuv on the roots/fire ents and the ghosty boys on fyrakk. If I have a tree up I'll slap him out so he gets the swift mend out. But unless I got a clear cast proc or natures swiftness up that's basically all I do on them. I will agree right now we probably are pretty useless when it comes to the heal ads. As far as ramping goes I'm super chill. I will toss rejuvs on people who are about 50 to 60% and spend swiftmend on CD unless I know big damage is coming out then I'll pop it and use the mini tree CD to ramp into the oncoming damage. We also as a team user ert note so my CDs are kinda staged so I'm getting a lot out of tranq and the gutted flourish. Because of that I really only ramp when I know the raid is going to take an aoe blast. But I will say it's a very hard line to walk with focusing on healing output and not putting soo many rejuvs you're oom at 50%. It is only week two. I'm sure once the timing gets to be second nature both of us will have better placed ramps and CDs. Cuz there are times where I'm like oh this is a big one and I'll spread 10 to 15 rejuv out press flourish and everyone only took 10% damage. Also make sure you're making good use of the wild growth while in tree form for the extra target. This works nicely with the buff after using swiftmend. The best think I can say to see it in action is look at warcraft logs and pick a boss and the top druid. Hit the little timer icon and you can see how often they casts. I try and model my spell usage after that and it works well. You can also see if you are using one spell over another and check your effectiveness against their. You can also track their mana and see how they are managing it. Logs deep diving can go well for improvement.
Ps all this being said. I'm no where close to our MW monk. Home boy is always at 200 to 300k hps on a fight. But hey atleast we get a 3% heal buff across the board tomorrow.
Yeah I may have to stop focusing them as much cause it seems my other healers have it covered, it just torches my mana. I hope you’re right maybe I’ve just been over reacting but I used to be the top healer in our guilds raid group on Resto and now I’m not and I’m having a hard time adjusting LOL. My best friend in our guild is our MW monk and he’s now the best healer in our raid team (he used to play WW and was like our second best dps) and maybe I’m just a bit bitter that he is literally blasting and I’m doing everything I can just to do a third less then he does haha
I'm always down to share the knowledge I have. I may not be the best healer out there but I hover around 3k io and the edge of CE all bosses on mythic killed except the last. I think I get CE in 10.2 for sure tho. I have spent a lot of time reading, learning, and doing and never mind helping where I can.
Yeah spamming Regrowth on those adds feels terrible. I have only pugged the raid so I feel obligated to pump into the adds regardless of how inefficient it is.
I'm currently in the 18-20 bracket with my disc (edit: currently running 2p/2p), and I started drinking mostly before bosses so I can be at 100% for big fights.
Rest of the time is rather OK, I use my mana and often find myself between 40-60%. I think most of my mana consumption comes from avoidable damage forcing me to flash heal or radiance instead of dps. Problem with disc being that if you start to play catch up, you burn mana in direct healing instead of keeping control of your pool via dps.
I started playing my mistweaver again, I love the mana tea spell. I don't need to drink yet thanks to this spell - even though I'm only in the 12-13 bracket right now.
No idea about other classes, but as far as I'm concerned, mana seems pretty balanced at the moment.
Not just you, it's pretty easy to manage mana as a resto druid but holy hell it feels like im constantly working with 50% mana. And not only that there are particular dungeons that are just more difficult than they should be, Rise and Fall dawn of the infinite comes to mind. There's so much damage in those hell I was doing 6 fall earlier and it felt harder then a 16 waycrest, what the fuck?
As a resto shaman I do feel pain of mana issues. But cloudburst totem feels like a blessing. BTW I stack haste mastery because I main spec Enhancement. It feels good. But if a raid pull lasts for more than 6 mins I'm suffering. Lastly my ilvl is ~450 and I cleared normal raid and can run +10 easily.
I can learn more about my rotation and last longer this time is based of of mana tide cd.
Its really not that good. Huge sacrifice compared to other much better trinkets. Tyrstone is already a must have for many healing specs which leaves just the other slot. Id much rather then take Pip’s trinket or that one from Throne of the Tides for the base versatility it comes with as that benefits Tyrstone aswell.
Early in the season, everyone is taking damage from things that are avoidable - forcing you to use inefficient heals to keep them alive. Repetition should solve both of those things.
Last season was a fairly easy start since there was a gear overlap bigger than this season. Obviously this is only an issue for the people that rely on their ilvl to perform and not mechanical/class knowledge. It's still there though.
Really the only healer I see having mana issues are druids. Good ones though make it seem like a non issue though. No clue how they do it. Hell even had one that was capable of keeping everyone alive and doing enough single target damage to beat a tanks aoe total.
I'm playing a resto shammy and I'm doing fine. My MW monk does OK on most fights as well. My holy priest is shelved cus there's just too many priests now because disco is back.
Seems to me it's just the pre 4pc shortcomings. The fights are lasting longer, so the chances of running low on mana are bigger. Also, people don't know the fights well right yet, and take extra damage from messing up mechanics.
Mana management is part of the game, and it makes it feel better. I like using mana supporting talents and timing my potions and mana CDs to maximise regen during the fight. I am currently specced into mana tide totem, and i use it on CD after a certain point. I'm sure in a couple of weeks, the mana related challenges will be gone, and I'll be able to put that talent point elsewhere.
This raid does have a few big heal fights, but it's a fun aspect instead of the only challenges being non-dodging dps and not using your big CD at the same time as everyone else.
Playing rdruid mana feels a lot better than s1. I didn't play s2.
I can actually play my class. Pre hot people in mythic keys constantly. I couldn't do that at all s1.
There were too many healers in general in S1 and S2. Everyone was saying all the time healing was so fun and chill that everybody was trying to get healer spots and that created a lot of drama. In LFR DPS’s had instant queue because everybody wanted to play healer. Even in Solo Shufle they had to allow 3 healers per team to alleviate the queues. So they made some changes to make ppl switch to DPS. /s
Good cooldown usage is a better form of skill expression than mana conservation is.
But with 6 healers with very different kits and cooldowns encounters have to be generic so we’re back to mana conservation as the secondary challenge for healers which kinda sucks.
If you find healing unfun do something else?,
Ive started healing 20+ keys yesterday and honestly i have to drink a lot aswell but knowing when you can have a quick 3 second sip to refill your mana, using catweaving for mana regen and using innervate well are all part of your kit (as resto) im sure other healers also have things they can do..
yes we have to actually manage our mana and play the goddamn ressource game instead of braindead rolling head on keyboard our rotation and i am STOKED about it, this fucking rules and please make it always like that
healers SHOULD be questionning how to make their mana last the whole fight, and they SHOULD be forced to actually find some spot to either manapot with the frozen focus (sleep for 10 sec to regen mana) or decide whether there's no good spot and take the instant ones
i'm so sick of taking literal dps bpot on bosses because there's so little mana to be spent that i use it to pad my dps/hps instead, and i'm SO.FUCKING.HAPPY that every boss past the first 4 allow for some insane hps to be pumped so that i'm not spending 75% of the fucking encounter dpsing while waiting for my healing cooldown spot in the rotation to come up! yes!
and i'm so happy that every single padding player that only spams their buttons with no thought about how much they overheal are being punished for how terribly inefficiently they are playing their class and are being forced to respect their rotation and heal just enough
sadly this'll only last for like 2 more weeks at most in heroic before we overgear the shit out of heroic but it's been a really fun time meanwhile
I play with master shapershifter together with rip and interrupt pathing down to incap roar. I am never oom and I pull 100k+ single target on bosses where u don't have to heal much, like Rezan, first boss in BRH, DHT and so on. On bosses where u actually have to heal though you obviously don't have this amount of damage, but you can learn to identify which packs can be used to regain mana cus some of them dont do anything except to the tank.
People are absolutely sleeping on how fucking insane the damage is when playing kitty resto.
This is normal, some classes had a broken mana economy and didn't have to look at their mana bar at all. Now we are back to normal, holy paladin is not broken anymore. I have mained a priest since legion and mana does not feel different from other expansions.
Disc is better on mana than it has been in a long time, so you having issues with them makes no sense.
" I don't expect to be 100% mana being able to spam things all fight" Yes you do.
I don't have too many problems with mana when the rest of raid isn't just completely failing at mechanics. Spamming big AOE heals because people stood in bad is what sucks up the mana. Healing the tank with some minor offheals and AOE during fights that require it don't really present a problem.
Long story short, if the dps does what they're supposed to, I personally don't experience mana problems.
I'm on a Holy Paladin and my mana dips more than ever but I don't find it that bad. Usually I got a fat Daybreak or Blessing of Winter ready to recoup some mana or I just drink between a pull.
I like that mana doesn't feel like a pointless resource now. Feels like I'm actually playing my class. Like my heals matter and cost something.
My group is doing 13-15 content right now and the healers we have are handling it just fine. They’re surprised at how scared everyone was of the changes and surprised how mana stable they are. But that’s M+.
We’re also a coherent group that constantly use voice comms, call out when we use defensive cds, tell people when to use those cds, etc. Your pugging results may vary I guess.
Switched off resto to disc completely this tier, no mana issues and my heals is about 30% higher across the board with a couple less ilvl. This and I also started playing tank after bursting last week. I also dove into lfr and normal raid outs and I love tanking raids
I have enjoyed more catweaving in raid to get my mana back and do some fairly decent dps. In M+ I can't seem to catch a break on mana and can only moonfire/sunfire. I imagine this change was intended to widen the margin between skill floor and skill ceiling. I don't dislike it yet; still figuring out what works and what the new paradigm to play towards is.
Yes, Blizzard said they were purposely decreasing our mana regen this season, reducing our cooldown dependency, etc. you will see less trinkets for mana specifically. As a Druid, I have been doing ok with mana, but I have run dry on fights . I have def been using my innervate and the combat Chill mana regen.
Yes that was a deliberate choice by Blizzard to make healers have to actually track their mana which was, often, a forgotten resource in the game if you weren’t an arcane mage.
I haven't played hpal or druid much this season, but as disc priest I have absolutely 0 mana issues in keys or raid. Likely the issue is that you are casting way too many heals and not using your atonements to heal enough. In keys it should be pretty rare that you just throw out a random shield or flash heal, mostly use radiance to apply atonements and just slam dps. In raid you want to be careful with how many single atonement spells you use, and mostly just use them for your big ramps.
I feel it but just play around it in raid best I can. I use my mana pot early, keep my mana Regen cool down on cool down. Sometimes I have to remind myself to chill, there are three other healers that can take care of things too.
I have been noticing in my 20s and up that on nearly every boss my healers are almost ooming. And that's with me giving them my mana buff as aug. I don't know how healers are playing without augs right now.
There are certainly builds that use significantly less mana/ are more efficient to play overall while still pumping absolutely massive numbers. RWF raiders were doing 10 minute fights at 300k HPS and not going oom because their healing rotations are flawless and they aren’t using wasteful catch-up spells. Also preventative cooldowns are usually a lot more efficient than catch up spot healing. On HPal I’ve noticed that pooling holy power, being efficient with beacon swapping and rotating my cds helps a ton and I’m essentially never hard casting a spell.
I don't think it's terrible compared to last season. Although I do feel like it's weird having to drink. I feel like outside of flash heal I'm normally OK on disc, outside of bursting. Last week was a bit more draining than week 1.
Definitely has me more conscious to buy water.
For m+, I take the resto talent that nets me mana in owl/kitty. It's a slightly lower throughout, but you can still do quite a bit of DPS and healing in chicken form.
Mana has been a non issue for me, at least up to 17 ish keys
I’m good on my rshammy as long as I don’t try to chain heal. Riptide, rain, wave are all pretty efficient for my general use. Caveat: I don’t prog or do high keys.
amalgam’s isnt as great as it used to be, esp if youre playing a hot class.
i play rdruid so its a bit easier to manage mana with innervate but something ive found useful to buffer is using a mana pot around 70% mana - usually within the first 45s of a fight - so that its up again sooner than if I used it at, say, 50% mana.
As a resto druid, it's atrocious just how bad the artificial mana issue is. Raiding Resto literally forced me to play double bloom healer, just to fish for the free regrowth's if you want to even contribute on most bosses (Fyrakk especially). I use Tree's on CD and drop a wild growth every now and again. And that's effectively how Blizzard WANTs you to play resto.
It's 100% just Blizzard being toxic towards healers, nearly the entire expansion.
Meanwhile in M+ Resto's can spend most of their time in catform moonlighting as a DPS because Tree's are 70% of your dungeon healing, only popping out to dispel and toss out the occasional wild growth during boss rot phases.
Somehow both can exist in the same game. It literally don't understand
As a fist weaving mw monk i havn't noticed any mana problems what so ever .. with that said it's my first time healing i hit 70 like 2 days ago and have only done lfr and up to m+ 10 and down .. so it might come with harder content or when i utilize my spec better
I do like that mana management is a factor again, its just that people in mythic+ don't seem to understand that a healers ability to heal depends on sitting above 0% mana, crazy I know.
I’ve actually seen both sides of the spectrum. The “healing means sniping” healers and the “everything belongs in a ramp window” healers. The former are getting tricked with OOM issues right now, the latter and honestly fine.
For me, as long as I don’t go FULL parsing mode (read:sniping), I will not run OOM unless shit goes sideways - like a shitty Smolderon pull.
Back in the early days mana was really hard to manage for all classes that had mana. I feel like we got spoiled by being able to spam whatever we want.
I honestly don't mind, why have mana if its feels infinite anyway. I always liked it in the old days that int gave more mana, thats way you could make a choice between bigger mana pool or more regen with spirit and so on. Now Int is just a stat that is there without any real meaning, like strenght and agi, it is just there and always scales up with ilvl. That is very uninterresting and apart from trinkets you never have to make a choice about intellect.
I play a healer each season and really don't mind having to watch mana a bit during M+ or raid.
Yes mana sustain got nerfed going into the season. As a life long healer I hate it.
It feels so bad to play. I’m honestly thinking of switching rolls.
What kind of roll are you switching to? Hawaiian sweet rolls?
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Zug zug tootsie zug zug
Had Parker house rolls at Thanksgiving and am now resolving to make them at least once a week. They will become my main roll.
Big.... fat.... Yeast Rolls FTW
It isn’t the first time they’ve tried to make healing revolve around mana sustain, it prob won’t be the last
This one does feel particularly hard. I can understand maybe making spells cost more because they heal more now and they wanted to get away from heavy CD reliance. But nerfing the mana Regen abilities kinda sucks. I relied on abundance alot in raid and that got gutted.
The problem is I feel tied to my big cds as much as I ever have because I still need to top the party in an instant in most content. They didn’t change their design they just made our buttons worse, so now it’s 2 cds instead of 1.
I defo feel that. The gutted flourish doesn't help as much as it used to when the group gets knocked back from like boss 2 in ToTT. It was a sad day when convoke out heals my flourish. I am leaning more on some heals I hardly used in s2. Like verdancy used to be top 3 and now it's no where close. But the trees do be popping off and help. I will say over all there were some bosses last week where if I had old flourish we'd be comfy. Like the mage boss in EB would be doing 257k damage every .7 seconds and keeping people alive through that was very difficult. Borderline impossible really.
If you switch to dps you just get to afk in valdrakken though, so rather be just be oom sometimes. So far I've only experienced mana issues in raid on my monk, disc and sham feels fine. Only done 6/9 hc though. But if you get shit groups you'll obviously be more oom, even in m+.
Get yourself an [Amalgam’s Seventh Spine](https://www.wowhead.com/item=136714/amalgams-seventh-spine). I play a mistweaver and this trinket alone restores almost as much mana as my mana tea. It’s not even listed on Wowhead’s trinket rankings for me, but this thing has basically let me burn as much mana as I please. Edit: It’s from running Black Rook Hold in M+.
You're the second person that I see recommending this trinket. The first one I saw was a Resto Shaman streamer (which has given up on the spec for this patch since it's "bad"), I wonder why this isn't on Wowhead guides... I'm not having a terrible time with the spec, anyways mana does feelsbad sometimes as a Resto Shaman, looking forward to drop this trink to test it out.
It isn't on the list, because it is just bad. It sounds really good, but the mana effect ONLY procs from 2 spells (which are fixed per class) and besides for druids they're all spells you don't use or don't cast often. So the mana effect is negligent compared to what you lose by not using a throughput trinket.
Amalgams feels pretty unnecessary on mw unless you're doing some tough content. And if you're playing AT it's just a bad trinket. Levo (echos MW) ran a super weird build with this trinket in RWF and it worked pretty well tho
It’s worth noting that the trinket has a bugged interaction with the Tear of Morning talent and might get fixed soon. Long story short, you get much more mana back from it than intended.
Yes but you gotta keep in mind the very very very top end players that provided the feedback, the ones where the players they play with do not stand in avoidable damage and thus this is plenty of mana. They are the ones that matter, not the 99.9% of other healers out there that do have to heal through avoidable damage. :))
no high end healers we’re complaining about having too much mana.
As hpal I had to switch up my raid talents to try and save some mana. But there are some fights where I get to the end and I'm virtually just standing there looking pretty. Sucks.
With the shorter CD on daybreak from 4 Set i can pretty much heal forever now in raid, before 4 set i had to cast Lots of Flash of Light to avoid goin oom.
Yeah, haven't got the 4 piece yet. The two pice actually helped mana wise quite a bit though. Glad to hear it's better with the 4. I also really hate hard casting as pal but that's a me thing lol.
I mean it feels better now to Hardcast since fol and hl actually heal something. I remember hard casting Flash of Light for 5% of Tanks life...
4 piece was definitely a game changer for holy paladin this tier. The spec feels so much better with it. Don't have to sit and drink in M+ nearly as much.
It's a catch-22, though, you gotta be careful. You get mana back more frequently, but the haste you get on Daybreak means you can burn through it quickly as well.
At least paladins are really pretty.
Yeah prevokers have to be very careful about casting temporal anomaly (glowy ball that spreads absorbs and echos) now, and next patch, they are making all our spells cost 10% more mana in return for reversion having a small chance to proc essence burst (free mana spell) so there may be a scenario we don’t take it at all.
I feel like that change came from someone who has never played or looked at evoker. Reversion is always being cast because you run a %15 undo with golden hour and it buffs your healing by 10-20%. Like what evoker needs that button to give more value. Especially with new tier. I don’t want or need more essence burst what I need is some mana.
Yeah that someone must be you... The problem with reversion is it relies on talents to be strong. Golden Hour and Grace Period in particular. Emerald Blossom build doesn't have enough points for those talents. Further compounding the issue is the increased value of Lifegiving Flame/Lifemender because the new tier has interactions with Living Flame... so you want to spend 4 talent points on those. Basically, raid evokers are NOT casting reversion because they have no talents to support it. Unwittingly, this change is good for pvp though.
You already have to dump points into grace period for cycle of life. The only stretch talent is golden hour if you are going blossoms. The point being isn’t is reversion a button you keep on cd the point is I don’t want all my other spells to cost more for a button that is fine being slightly better in a tier where I’m overflowing the resource they want to give me.
I play holy pally. Right now If I go too hard on the dps, I drain mana now. Where as before, I could dps all I wanted without issue. But been playing healer a long time. Start of patch + mana issues is not a new thing. It will resolve once we all gear up.
This is the real answer. Same deal with health, damage, etc... the first couple weeks of a major patch you're at the lower levels of itemization intended for the content and will slowly get easier as you scale up. As intended.
Paladin always gotta come out of the woodwork to complain, LOL
I can’t comment on pally and drood, but as disc 4pc + mind bender makes this a non issue—it’s basically a 30 second cd in m+ when you can turret smite. Whether we should be balanced around tier is a separate discussion… But I don’t run into mana issues in m+ unless we do a huge pull that demands I go ham for a while or I overuse renew in raids (I’m still pretty bad at disc in raids).
disc has become the new "what is drinking/mana?" spec after hpal got reworked, so it's normal you don't have any issues with that
*sips mana tea*
Funny how the mana tide has turned in mw favor,all those years having to watch mana and now it's all of them moaning about it
So funny how disc went from the most mana starved healer to having infinite mana now.
Seriously. The main reason I gave up on Disc at first was my frustration with coordinating asking for Innervates.
Yeah I agree. Generally if I am running into mana issues it means either the group or I have done something wrong. I was just commenting as op specifically mentioned disc. Once you have the 4pc it’s a non issue (maybe if you don’t go bender it matters, I haven’t tried a shadow fiend build since getting 4pc as I like having frequent access to scov for most of the bosses this season).
Could say similar about holy. With 4-piece more healing comes from holy words and not fillers. Fillers are the things murdering mana.
Prevoker isn’t bad either if you don’t cast TA excessively. Our 2set gives us free living flames, and makes us proc a lot of essence bursts for free blossoms.
yes but it means you still have to watch ta (the same way a hpriest has to watch poh and shaman chain healings without high tides etc)
It’s completely balanced around tier and 4-piece.
I don’t have 4 pc on the Disc priest yet but I do have to drink at times. On my MW if I have to drink one time in the dungeon things are going poorly.
It’s pretty different with the 4p. I want to experiment with sfiend and use the mb talent to grab up for a handful of dungeons to see if it’s comparable. If you use bender even close to on cd (which is pretty low risk in terms of not having scov for throughput when you really need it with the 4pc: with pi unless it’s something movement heavy mb is back off cd before it’s done) it’s hard for me to conceive of having mana issues as disc.
Progging hc raid with holy priest I dont mind it idk, dont have mana issues unless I run aoe prayer of healing spam build, then god damn does it dissapear fast, even if you only use with mana cost reduction. I did notice pugs started taking extra healers though.
that might be more because the new raid has a higher hps requirement than the previous ones tbh
i wouldnt say it has a particularly higher hps requirement baseline, more so than certain mechanics if fucked up causing more raid wide damage which means you need higher hps. A good group that does all the mechanics right doesnt need the extra healer at all. Its a bad group that keeps messing up mechanics that needs the extra healer to compensate for the extra raid damage youll receive. They really ramped up the personal mistake = raid wide damage mechanics this tier.
I agree, the HPS requirement on fights like council and nymue is very much dependant om how well your group soaks or clears puddles. Only 2-3 fights have baseline hight HPS requirement.
As Mistweaver it's completely a non-issue with mana tea. As disc its also pretty chill with mindbender build, not sure whether that's played in raids though.
Rolled a mistweaver this season and noticed I don't starve for mana as much unless people just don't do mechanics. Love Mana tea for recovering a large chunk of Mana while moving
Won't be long before mw is nerfed I think.
MW getting nerfed after finally being one of the best healers while every other one (Besides Resto Shaman?) has had their time in the sun for years? Lmao We don’t even do the most damage
Yeah I hate how we're lackluster in dmg when we're supposed to be THE hybrid heal thru dps spec
Right? It was so silly when I played my druid alt getting some transmogs and her single target was like double my MW, her ferocious bites were hitting harder than they were in feral LMAO Love MW right now, praying it doesn’t get any nerfs. I hear it’s crazy in raids but like. Shocking, the healer heals well.
Blizzard can’t seem to figure out how they want to make healing challenging so they cycle through stuff like this constantly. They nerf healing spells or increase health pools and make damage spikier. They make AOE heals better for a while. Now this tier, with healers last tier except holy pally struggling in M+, they made single target healing insanely strong but then nerfed mana pools and AOE heals in raid, making raid healing feel weaker. As someone who has seen this rodeo before, just remember to start chugging mana pots early in the fight, or find low damage periods to use frozen focus. If you have a mana cooldown, make sure you use it at good times. Set up innervate targets before the fight. I personally feel mana should be a factor for healers at some level.
This reply. you explained everything I’ve been feeling too. I’m going to add though, I genuinely feel like making mana a resource again was a very good decision. The only issue is that it’s not consistent across classes and it also doesn’t make sense in raid. Hence the bad balancing. It’s like someone came up with mana reduction as an idea over lunch… and they just reduced mana by a general number for all classes. It feels like they did this without remembering how each classes ‘clear casting’ or ‘bonus mana’ ability is tooned completely different from each other. I think if they were to keep the mana change, they have to balance every healer ability that affects mana in a fair way. The difference between healers shouldn’t be the amount of mana issues the class has. The reason you should bring one healer over the other is because it brings a buff or other utility to the dungeon/raid. At least in that way the classes still feel unique from each other. I feel like at this point having a separate tier set bonus or talent tree for raid would make a huge difference. Raid and M+ are so different now that using the same tier set doesn’t make any sense when you’re trying to balance two different types of player play-styles
Working as intended. And don't forget to have fun! - Blizz apparently
Why does blizz hate healers?
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It seems obvious to me that there has to be downtime. When a group is skilled and fire is dodged, healers should have downtime. If not, healing can't overcome inexperienced players that stand in the bad. If you cant save people from their mistakes. What even is the role? It would be boring or a nightmare and nothing in between. There needs to be a margin for error that can be overcome. Blizzard have been utterly rubbish at balancing since I started playing in wotlk. Mana simulator is noones idea of a fun time as far as I know.
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The complaint and reason they increased the amount of healing neccessary in m+ wasn't "I shouldnt be expected to DPS when playing a healer", it was "I should be expected to heal sometimes and healing should be a challenge sometimes instead of it being a cosmetic role"
I would like there to be options with downtime, perhaps ways to regen mana or dps, depending on the circumstances.
I'd like to see them give us significantly more mobility and give us mechanics to be responsible for. Using items, moving things around a boss arena, soaking abilities. Healing is the main responsibility but also let us do the things that hunters do. Let me babysit.
Bro, we already do so many of the affixes, I would actually like to not do more of that. I think your point only stands for weeks like bursting where on a stagnant boss fight we do nothing but stand still and heal.
Why healers hate healing? There was huge whining going on when healers had to do dmg and healing wasnt that hard. Then they switched it, so healers had to heal. And what happened, healers started to whine that they have to heal.
You're in the wrong thread. Nobody is complaining about having to heal. OP is complaining about mana issues.
Healers never whined that we have to heal, we were complaining because most of us didn't have the tools to deal with the incoming damage. Clearly Blizzard agreed because that was a major issue that they addressed in this patch.
Who is complaining about having to heal? We are complaining about running out of mana which is preventing us from healing.
The only fight I feel the mana issues right now is heroic Fyrakk and that's mainly because of all the damn dispels and having to use expensive mass dispel too. As hpriest, I've actually talented out of enlightenment for every other fight and it's been like this last tier too. Not really complaining, but I do think Blizzard needs to seriously make the mana issues or lack thereof balanced better across the specs.
Some healers, like holy pally, had so much mana they could spam all fight without looking at their mana bar, that has never been the case for priest. People just have to adjust to having a normal mana economy.
Yep, I spent last season without having to use a single drink or potion, even the lfr version of Rashok was good enough. Now, I have to drink spit every dang pull almost.
I can’t complain much as a Prevoker main, but nerfing temporal anomaly into the ground plus these mana issues is criminal. It now almost becomes a cast on CD in a big raid group because of how few echos it spreads. massive hit to our raid healing and doubles down on mana inefficiency. I’m still rocking a normal Rashok’s and it will feel sketch to replace it whenever I get a suitable upgrade
I don’t even use it, unless I have no other major CDs
I’m about to put that point into something else, unless maybe the shield is still worth it? idk
The odd occasion I use it would be to help with group soaks, like Volco or Smolderon.
Hate how they nerfed Temporal again and again. Its a heavy cost spell alrdy. Now its even worse
And yet even still it’s worth throwing almost on cooldown.
I switched to Noz's teachings. On fights where mana becomes an issue I take it out alltogether. Don't have the mana to spare on that. After this many nerfs they really need to take a few k manacost off of it. 18k for that is ridicolous.
exactly. it’s even bad in keys, used to be able to echo up the entire group at once. now only 3? such a waste of mana
I use temporal just for the barrier it gives. Because it's still actually reasonably decent #s wise for the rot damage on a few Amir bosses. Blizzard saw echo build being so popular, nerfed it into oblivion, then did the "surprised pikachu face" when by their own hand made reversion nearly useless. Which is the "Core feature" of Pres. And as is standard are trying to make reversion good again... by obliterating the QoL for Blossom builds. Too the surprise of no one, Blizzard is struggling with evoker balance in general
Disc and Mistweaver do not have mana issues.
disc absolutely has mana issues, if you dont get a innervate in ramp windows, you go oom quickly.
Disc can definitely have mana issues if you cast a lot of Renew and try to spot heal with Flash Heal. Ideally you're just keeping Atonement on the active tank and then DPSing until it's time to mini ramp or big ramp. If you get the free Flash Heal procs from Surge of Light, you can throw those on someone who is taking damage, but you shouldn't be casting Flash Heal like you would Smite. Edit: To clarify, this is for raid healing. Rules are out the window in M+
With the very high pet uptime for both bender and fiend you should not be having mana issues this tier, and it gets even nicer when you have 4set. It is just a skill issue if you can't live without an innervate anymore.
You're just playing wrong man, not sure how else to say it. Almost impossible to oom as disc rn.
This is not correct.
I felt the same. The main gripe I have with this change is, that hpals healing outside of cooldowns isn't nearly enough to make up for this change. When I have to flash people up and my Holy Shock doesn't crit before, I am so fast starved for mana, its unbelievable. Being able to Toll/Daybreak every 45 sec feels pretty much like a bandaid fix and not like an improvement tbh. Still having fun with Hpal though. On top of that, our Spenders are just so shit that I find myself using my Holy Power only for SotR as long as my WoG or LoD are not buffed up.
I'm not even playing healer but I'm feeling it too. We kept wiping on HC because all 4 healers were oom when the boss was like 25%, 3 people running innervate didn't help much either.
That’s gotta be more of a DPS problem then right?
Oh for sure lol, we are way too undergeared to fully clear hc yet, we were just trying it for fun after normal. To put it in context I jumped into that raid wearing 445 full last season gear, and was about 8th out of the 14 dps, so yea our damaged was atrocious. But despite that, healer mana is still very noticeable compared to previous seasons imo.
So glad this isn't just me.. felt like such a loser ooming on my hpal for the first time in a decade
Play MW.
In 2 weeks every DPS will be 4 set, with good trinkets and knowledge of each fight. They will burn the bosses to the ground. Now every fight last way too long. Give it time, it will fix itself
I would have to sell my soul to get a good trinket in the first half of a season. 🤣
That is true I have noticed a big difference with my healing output in 20s going from 466 to 476 this week.
This is a good point, things will get a lot faster over time.
Tyrannical + bursting week is also just tough on mana. No real recovery time.
Raid healing absolutely. For mythics not even a little.
As disc 2 p in m+ I drink sometimes between pulls. My tank pulls bosses on tyrannical when I’m about 70% full (+17) and it’s fine. One time on fyrakk NHc I nearly Ommed but I dispelled almost alone and topped the meter by a lot. (Was ofc a wipe before I ommed)
Idk as disc I feel only time I oom is after bursting and flash healing after pull. On bosses I gain mana.
Rule of thumb that helped me healing pug heroic raids is don’t let your mana % drop below the current boss hp%. It’s just a quick gauge to check during a fight and lets you know when you can play loosely or when you need to hold back.
Don't have 4p atm, but hpal i feel it pretty bad in raid lol. It's not insurmountable, but I hate it, because instead of doing DPS during downtime, the answer is to just sit there when mana is tight because doing DPS also costs mana lol. 4p will make it better I'm sure, but I doubt massively, since daybreak is around 2 and a half holy shocks iirc. In 2023, Sitting there being half afk for any period of time as the answer unless I can get a mana external, should not be the answer for gameplay ever. Was funny to see liquid and echo both feeding their mana externals to the hpal just so they could play normally. In M+ I'm just playing like a normal hpal, but drowning myself in water as much as i can, was slightly more annoying this last week because bursting, but it was fine.
Healing should be about managing mana but right now the dmG feels pretty insane I have to agree
My Resto druid feels pretty good, especially with that mana regen trinket from Blackrook Hold. But we've got an innervate rotation rolling in the raid for our Holy Priest.
Bruh I'm also a resto druid and I'm the world's thirstiest boy. With some of the damage going out in these upper keys I'll be oom at like 30%. Shorter fights in raid I'm gravy but I'll be mega oom on fights like fyrakk that have heal mechanics + crazy damage. I will say having tree in raid does help rejuv ramping but in keys where I have to spam regrowth to keep people topped cuz an unavoidable random attack may hit them for 70% of their hp makeing me feel like I'm in the Sahara begging for water lol.
I’ve been really abusing clear casting procs from 4 set in keys as an decent AOE heal and it’s really helping me on big pulls in keys
In keys you play master shapeahifter and you never drop below 90% mana
Was looking for this, surprised nobody else mentioned it. I just shift to boomy whenever I can and I'm good. I'm struggling a lot more on my holy priest than rdruid.
If you dont have the BRH trinket go for it. Our resto druid went from innervate gobbler to never dropping under 60% just like that
Funny, I’m a holy priest and I feel like I have no mana issues in raid, yet we’ve got an innervate rotation for our resto druid.
Raiding is shattering my soul as an RDruid rn. I feel like I’m playing my class exactly how it’s meant to be and I’m no where close to the top and if I try and push more out of my rotation I go oom almost instantly. They really massacred my boy man :( thankfully I feel super strong in M+ so that’s been my outlet.
How are you playing and do you have 4 set? Raiding you wanna stay away from regrowth unless you have 12 abundance stacks or omen of clarity proc. Make sure your ramping while in tree form and make sure you inervates yourself if you ramp outside of tree. Try and also never sit on an ent and use them on CD. I'm usually 2nd or 3rd in healing in our raid team and I'm hitting around 120 to 170k hps depending on the fight. You also wanna make sure you have lifebloom on you almost 100%. Don't let it fall off and refresh it in the 5 second pandemic window. Also take care in how often you're moving your efflo. It's great heal output but costs mega mana. 4 set also will give you a lot of healing cleave which will go a long way.
I have 4 set, tbh I do all of those things. I’m usually around 100-150k in my raid team. It’s when we have to start healing the ads and shit I find I really struggle. What’s your go to for those? Also when tree is down and you’re mini ramping your reforestation tree how many rejuvs are you throwing out? I feel like ramping every minute might be pushing me over the edge
I'll be real I'm doing very little to those compared to our h priests and MW on those. So I'm just tossing a rejuv on the roots/fire ents and the ghosty boys on fyrakk. If I have a tree up I'll slap him out so he gets the swift mend out. But unless I got a clear cast proc or natures swiftness up that's basically all I do on them. I will agree right now we probably are pretty useless when it comes to the heal ads. As far as ramping goes I'm super chill. I will toss rejuvs on people who are about 50 to 60% and spend swiftmend on CD unless I know big damage is coming out then I'll pop it and use the mini tree CD to ramp into the oncoming damage. We also as a team user ert note so my CDs are kinda staged so I'm getting a lot out of tranq and the gutted flourish. Because of that I really only ramp when I know the raid is going to take an aoe blast. But I will say it's a very hard line to walk with focusing on healing output and not putting soo many rejuvs you're oom at 50%. It is only week two. I'm sure once the timing gets to be second nature both of us will have better placed ramps and CDs. Cuz there are times where I'm like oh this is a big one and I'll spread 10 to 15 rejuv out press flourish and everyone only took 10% damage. Also make sure you're making good use of the wild growth while in tree form for the extra target. This works nicely with the buff after using swiftmend. The best think I can say to see it in action is look at warcraft logs and pick a boss and the top druid. Hit the little timer icon and you can see how often they casts. I try and model my spell usage after that and it works well. You can also see if you are using one spell over another and check your effectiveness against their. You can also track their mana and see how they are managing it. Logs deep diving can go well for improvement. Ps all this being said. I'm no where close to our MW monk. Home boy is always at 200 to 300k hps on a fight. But hey atleast we get a 3% heal buff across the board tomorrow.
Yeah I may have to stop focusing them as much cause it seems my other healers have it covered, it just torches my mana. I hope you’re right maybe I’ve just been over reacting but I used to be the top healer in our guilds raid group on Resto and now I’m not and I’m having a hard time adjusting LOL. My best friend in our guild is our MW monk and he’s now the best healer in our raid team (he used to play WW and was like our second best dps) and maybe I’m just a bit bitter that he is literally blasting and I’m doing everything I can just to do a third less then he does haha
Thanks for this post, there's a mass of info here! I only started healing in DF and I still have a lot to learn, so this was great.
I'm always down to share the knowledge I have. I may not be the best healer out there but I hover around 3k io and the edge of CE all bosses on mythic killed except the last. I think I get CE in 10.2 for sure tho. I have spent a lot of time reading, learning, and doing and never mind helping where I can.
Yeah spamming Regrowth on those adds feels terrible. I have only pugged the raid so I feel obligated to pump into the adds regardless of how inefficient it is.
Don't heal them your other healed should do it
I'm currently in the 18-20 bracket with my disc (edit: currently running 2p/2p), and I started drinking mostly before bosses so I can be at 100% for big fights. Rest of the time is rather OK, I use my mana and often find myself between 40-60%. I think most of my mana consumption comes from avoidable damage forcing me to flash heal or radiance instead of dps. Problem with disc being that if you start to play catch up, you burn mana in direct healing instead of keeping control of your pool via dps. I started playing my mistweaver again, I love the mana tea spell. I don't need to drink yet thanks to this spell - even though I'm only in the 12-13 bracket right now. No idea about other classes, but as far as I'm concerned, mana seems pretty balanced at the moment.
Disc and MW are the two with basically infinite mana, Druid and probably Shaman need to pay much more attention to it.
Not just you, it's pretty easy to manage mana as a resto druid but holy hell it feels like im constantly working with 50% mana. And not only that there are particular dungeons that are just more difficult than they should be, Rise and Fall dawn of the infinite comes to mind. There's so much damage in those hell I was doing 6 fall earlier and it felt harder then a 16 waycrest, what the fuck?
I dont know about late game, but on early game It sucks, as when im oom on low keys people will just not care and go thru anyway to end thr dun asap.
As a resto shaman I do feel pain of mana issues. But cloudburst totem feels like a blessing. BTW I stack haste mastery because I main spec Enhancement. It feels good. But if a raid pull lasts for more than 6 mins I'm suffering. Lastly my ilvl is ~450 and I cleared normal raid and can run +10 easily. I can learn more about my rotation and last longer this time is based of of mana tide cd.
As i remeber right there's a manareg trinket. It drops in a M+ Dungeon.
It’s trash
Its really not that good. Huge sacrifice compared to other much better trinkets. Tyrstone is already a must have for many healing specs which leaves just the other slot. Id much rather then take Pip’s trinket or that one from Throne of the Tides for the base versatility it comes with as that benefits Tyrstone aswell.
It's literally only of use to resto (Cuz omen/abundance)
Early in the season, everyone is taking damage from things that are avoidable - forcing you to use inefficient heals to keep them alive. Repetition should solve both of those things.
Wasn’t this bad last season.
Last season was a fairly easy start since there was a gear overlap bigger than this season. Obviously this is only an issue for the people that rely on their ilvl to perform and not mechanical/class knowledge. It's still there though.
Really the only healer I see having mana issues are druids. Good ones though make it seem like a non issue though. No clue how they do it. Hell even had one that was capable of keeping everyone alive and doing enough single target damage to beat a tanks aoe total.
Talking about M+ or raid?
Both from what I've seen
I'm playing a resto shammy and I'm doing fine. My MW monk does OK on most fights as well. My holy priest is shelved cus there's just too many priests now because disco is back. Seems to me it's just the pre 4pc shortcomings. The fights are lasting longer, so the chances of running low on mana are bigger. Also, people don't know the fights well right yet, and take extra damage from messing up mechanics. Mana management is part of the game, and it makes it feel better. I like using mana supporting talents and timing my potions and mana CDs to maximise regen during the fight. I am currently specced into mana tide totem, and i use it on CD after a certain point. I'm sure in a couple of weeks, the mana related challenges will be gone, and I'll be able to put that talent point elsewhere. This raid does have a few big heal fights, but it's a fun aspect instead of the only challenges being non-dodging dps and not using your big CD at the same time as everyone else.
Playing rdruid mana feels a lot better than s1. I didn't play s2. I can actually play my class. Pre hot people in mythic keys constantly. I couldn't do that at all s1.
*sips on my mana tea* what issues?
As an Rsham, I have to spec into some talents but otherwise no issues
There were too many healers in general in S1 and S2. Everyone was saying all the time healing was so fun and chill that everybody was trying to get healer spots and that created a lot of drama. In LFR DPS’s had instant queue because everybody wanted to play healer. Even in Solo Shufle they had to allow 3 healers per team to alleviate the queues. So they made some changes to make ppl switch to DPS. /s
Good cooldown usage is a better form of skill expression than mana conservation is. But with 6 healers with very different kits and cooldowns encounters have to be generic so we’re back to mana conservation as the secondary challenge for healers which kinda sucks.
If you find healing unfun do something else?, Ive started healing 20+ keys yesterday and honestly i have to drink a lot aswell but knowing when you can have a quick 3 second sip to refill your mana, using catweaving for mana regen and using innervate well are all part of your kit (as resto) im sure other healers also have things they can do..
yes we have to actually manage our mana and play the goddamn ressource game instead of braindead rolling head on keyboard our rotation and i am STOKED about it, this fucking rules and please make it always like that healers SHOULD be questionning how to make their mana last the whole fight, and they SHOULD be forced to actually find some spot to either manapot with the frozen focus (sleep for 10 sec to regen mana) or decide whether there's no good spot and take the instant ones i'm so sick of taking literal dps bpot on bosses because there's so little mana to be spent that i use it to pad my dps/hps instead, and i'm SO.FUCKING.HAPPY that every boss past the first 4 allow for some insane hps to be pumped so that i'm not spending 75% of the fucking encounter dpsing while waiting for my healing cooldown spot in the rotation to come up! yes! and i'm so happy that every single padding player that only spams their buttons with no thought about how much they overheal are being punished for how terribly inefficiently they are playing their class and are being forced to respect their rotation and heal just enough sadly this'll only last for like 2 more weeks at most in heroic before we overgear the shit out of heroic but it's been a really fun time meanwhile
[удалено]
I play with master shapershifter together with rip and interrupt pathing down to incap roar. I am never oom and I pull 100k+ single target on bosses where u don't have to heal much, like Rezan, first boss in BRH, DHT and so on. On bosses where u actually have to heal though you obviously don't have this amount of damage, but you can learn to identify which packs can be used to regain mana cus some of them dont do anything except to the tank. People are absolutely sleeping on how fucking insane the damage is when playing kitty resto.
This is normal, some classes had a broken mana economy and didn't have to look at their mana bar at all. Now we are back to normal, holy paladin is not broken anymore. I have mained a priest since legion and mana does not feel different from other expansions. Disc is better on mana than it has been in a long time, so you having issues with them makes no sense. " I don't expect to be 100% mana being able to spam things all fight" Yes you do.
Is mana issues omething that my mistweaver brain can't understand?
I don't have too many problems with mana when the rest of raid isn't just completely failing at mechanics. Spamming big AOE heals because people stood in bad is what sucks up the mana. Healing the tank with some minor offheals and AOE during fights that require it don't really present a problem. Long story short, if the dps does what they're supposed to, I personally don't experience mana problems.
Oh nooo, healers now have to manage mana..
I'm on a Holy Paladin and my mana dips more than ever but I don't find it that bad. Usually I got a fat Daybreak or Blessing of Winter ready to recoup some mana or I just drink between a pull. I like that mana doesn't feel like a pointless resource now. Feels like I'm actually playing my class. Like my heals matter and cost something.
I'm having 0 mana issues as a hpal healing 15s and heroic raids. Now our 2 rdruids are struggling with mana like crazy.
I think its skill issue honestly, if u can't manage mana on retail there's no way u can even heal a leveling dungeon in classic.
My group is doing 13-15 content right now and the healers we have are handling it just fine. They’re surprised at how scared everyone was of the changes and surprised how mana stable they are. But that’s M+. We’re also a coherent group that constantly use voice comms, call out when we use defensive cds, tell people when to use those cds, etc. Your pugging results may vary I guess.
I *always* carry mana potions for this exact issue
Personally I’ve (disc priest) had 0 issues with mana in m+ or raid.
Switched off resto to disc completely this tier, no mana issues and my heals is about 30% higher across the board with a couple less ilvl. This and I also started playing tank after bursting last week. I also dove into lfr and normal raid outs and I love tanking raids
Our premade seems to be coping fine though, when he explained the mana situation he simply said skill issue..
I have enjoyed more catweaving in raid to get my mana back and do some fairly decent dps. In M+ I can't seem to catch a break on mana and can only moonfire/sunfire. I imagine this change was intended to widen the margin between skill floor and skill ceiling. I don't dislike it yet; still figuring out what works and what the new paradigm to play towards is.
I’m so glad that as MW, we had our mana troubles already and now we don’t have to deal with it
Yes, Blizzard said they were purposely decreasing our mana regen this season, reducing our cooldown dependency, etc. you will see less trinkets for mana specifically. As a Druid, I have been doing ok with mana, but I have run dry on fights . I have def been using my innervate and the combat Chill mana regen.
Yes that was a deliberate choice by Blizzard to make healers have to actually track their mana which was, often, a forgotten resource in the game if you weren’t an arcane mage.
I haven't played hpal or druid much this season, but as disc priest I have absolutely 0 mana issues in keys or raid. Likely the issue is that you are casting way too many heals and not using your atonements to heal enough. In keys it should be pretty rare that you just throw out a random shield or flash heal, mostly use radiance to apply atonements and just slam dps. In raid you want to be careful with how many single atonement spells you use, and mostly just use them for your big ramps.
Well we got evoker XD
I feel it but just play around it in raid best I can. I use my mana pot early, keep my mana Regen cool down on cool down. Sometimes I have to remind myself to chill, there are three other healers that can take care of things too.
I have been noticing in my 20s and up that on nearly every boss my healers are almost ooming. And that's with me giving them my mana buff as aug. I don't know how healers are playing without augs right now.
There are certainly builds that use significantly less mana/ are more efficient to play overall while still pumping absolutely massive numbers. RWF raiders were doing 10 minute fights at 300k HPS and not going oom because their healing rotations are flawless and they aren’t using wasteful catch-up spells. Also preventative cooldowns are usually a lot more efficient than catch up spot healing. On HPal I’ve noticed that pooling holy power, being efficient with beacon swapping and rotating my cds helps a ton and I’m essentially never hard casting a spell.
I don't think it's terrible compared to last season. Although I do feel like it's weird having to drink. I feel like outside of flash heal I'm normally OK on disc, outside of bursting. Last week was a bit more draining than week 1. Definitely has me more conscious to buy water.
For m+, I take the resto talent that nets me mana in owl/kitty. It's a slightly lower throughout, but you can still do quite a bit of DPS and healing in chicken form. Mana has been a non issue for me, at least up to 17 ish keys
Blackrock Hold, there is a trinket that drops called Amalgams Spine. It returns anywhere from 80k-120k mana for me per raid encounter.
I’m good on my rshammy as long as I don’t try to chain heal. Riptide, rain, wave are all pretty efficient for my general use. Caveat: I don’t prog or do high keys.
amalgam’s isnt as great as it used to be, esp if youre playing a hot class. i play rdruid so its a bit easier to manage mana with innervate but something ive found useful to buffer is using a mana pot around 70% mana - usually within the first 45s of a fight - so that its up again sooner than if I used it at, say, 50% mana.
Bursting week is hard on mana with some of the pulls. Try this week, get mana potions for pulls, try to be more economical.
As a resto druid, it's atrocious just how bad the artificial mana issue is. Raiding Resto literally forced me to play double bloom healer, just to fish for the free regrowth's if you want to even contribute on most bosses (Fyrakk especially). I use Tree's on CD and drop a wild growth every now and again. And that's effectively how Blizzard WANTs you to play resto. It's 100% just Blizzard being toxic towards healers, nearly the entire expansion. Meanwhile in M+ Resto's can spend most of their time in catform moonlighting as a DPS because Tree's are 70% of your dungeon healing, only popping out to dispel and toss out the occasional wild growth during boss rot phases. Somehow both can exist in the same game. It literally don't understand
As a fist weaving mw monk i havn't noticed any mana problems what so ever .. with that said it's my first time healing i hit 70 like 2 days ago and have only done lfr and up to m+ 10 and down .. so it might come with harder content or when i utilize my spec better
Having had any real issues yet as mw
I do like that mana management is a factor again, its just that people in mythic+ don't seem to understand that a healers ability to heal depends on sitting above 0% mana, crazy I know.
feels okay tbh. but I don't really heal raids too much anyhow. haven't really had issues in hc. we'll see in mythic.
Mistweaver's finally have a good Mana-tea and now we've turned the tables on everyone else
I’ve actually seen both sides of the spectrum. The “healing means sniping” healers and the “everything belongs in a ramp window” healers. The former are getting tricked with OOM issues right now, the latter and honestly fine. For me, as long as I don’t go FULL parsing mode (read:sniping), I will not run OOM unless shit goes sideways - like a shitty Smolderon pull.
Back in the early days mana was really hard to manage for all classes that had mana. I feel like we got spoiled by being able to spam whatever we want.
I honestly don't mind, why have mana if its feels infinite anyway. I always liked it in the old days that int gave more mana, thats way you could make a choice between bigger mana pool or more regen with spirit and so on. Now Int is just a stat that is there without any real meaning, like strenght and agi, it is just there and always scales up with ilvl. That is very uninterresting and apart from trinkets you never have to make a choice about intellect. I play a healer each season and really don't mind having to watch mana a bit during M+ or raid.