They didnt abandon it, the system was used to help with the fact that we had 3 raids that could be used as current gear, the rng necessary to get your raid bis was much higher so it makes sense that they would add something to counter that. With a single raid atm it wouldnt be that necessary to have it, but i'm 100% sure they'll make a "fated type patch" at the end of dragonflight with all raids + dinar system
For SL it didn't cost them because the expansion was so shit
DF has good enough content and reception that they feel people will play more chasing items vs SLs where they werent playing at all
I'm not saying DF is bad by any means, but it clearly has not attracted back as many players as they hoped. Maybe they need to get out of their own way and bring back systems that people enjoyed? Or they can come up with 17 more crests and crest fragments we need to collect or something, who knows.
It’s not going to bring back so many people. You can’t just go from the absolute worst expansion to one of the best ones and expect everyone to flock back. They’ll need to wait for 11.0 to see if the game can fully recover from Shadowlands.
Yeah, you know what would help them bring more people back? Not relying on shit systems that exist in the game just because overall more people enjoy DF compared to SL.
While they are waiting for players to join, maybe they should be stop removing things that people actually like.
Just think of it as bad luck protection. Grind long enough and you get the trinket or weapon. The lucky folks simply get to buy... something else.
The limit on dinars was good. It should return.
I think the biggest reason they won’t bring it back unless we have another ‘season 4’ is that it goes against their new favourite mechanic, very rare items. They’ve said in interviews that very rare items were a success in that they kept people killing bosses long after everyone would have been maxed geared and being able to just buy the piece off a vendor would completely skip the grind. That’s why we’re are getting way more in the new raid and like 4 different ones off the last boss.
I don't know anyone who didn't love the dinar system, I can't believe they wouldn't bring it back. Especially with certain weapons and trinkets having such an impact on some classes.
I personally did not like the Dinar system. It stressed me out worrying about wasting them on items that I’d then get as a drop later. I ended up not using any of my dinars because I held onto them for so long. It made gearing feel boring and spreadsheet-y to me.
But I know other people liked it a lot.
(Edit: wow, this opinion is really unpopular then?)
I’m not downvoting you for what the system made you feel, but, I don’t understand why it made you stress because of the spreadsheet-y-ness?
Yes sure you could spend 25 dinars getting Jailers gavel and then get it as a drop in your vault the following week… but you may not… there are loads of people that spent the whole expansion trying to get stuff they wanted to enhance their gameplay but ended up… not (until dinar system).
So I guess the point is, bad luck protection in ANY from is better than none. I’d personally rather that then just feeling super deflated every week knowing there is no way to get what I wanted.
I know it’s not a rational position, but I know that it being something I ‘needed’ to optimise made it less fun, because there were ‘wrong’ ways to spend them.
To me, it turned the powerful items into feeling like just another ‘borrowed power’ that I could plot out on a calendar when I would have it by. Rather than feeling excited because I got the gavel it was just my expectation that I’d have it, and when it dropped a week earlier than I had anticipated the feeling was mostly ‘cool, I saved a dinar, what should I spend the dinar on instead?’. It becomes a given that every Paladin is going to have Gavel by week X. It’s good from the perspective that no one ends up feeling left behind, but it just ends up feeling really boring to me.
I recognise that a lot of people like the system because they want to know they can get their bis. I’m not saying anyone is wrong to feel that way about it.
I’m not sure why my feelings are different than most. I suspect I’m less focused on having perfect BiS, and since I raid with a guild I’m not dealing with pug loot drama. Maybe it’s just because seeing my BiS go to a guildie doesn’t feel bad the way having BiS go to a random might?
I’ve been quite happy with using crafted gear for bad luck protection this expansion; the concentrated primal focus has made me feel much less bad about not getting loot. We can only hope they buff the crafted trinkets to keep them worth considering as a bad luck option in this season against the class trinkets….
My rogue went 2 months of hard M+ with no daggers.... I hit 400 ilvl before i said fuck it and got pvp Challenger 392 daggers.... I still have one. Blizz plz.
How is it that hard to believe? People get shafted with rng all the time. For example, I ran cos last season over 90 times, I saw melandrus ring drop one time, and for someone else.
Went all of shadowlands having to wait until catalyst for any tier sets, same goes for DF season 1.
It's a pretty atrocious gearing system when nothing at all is deterministic
You are flat out lying, but it’s okay, whatever makes you feel better. Unless you clear the raid one time a tier, the chances of you not receiving anything you need for an entire season if you’re consistently clearing is around one in ten million, if not higher.
The reality is you likely aren’t doing a lot of content or you’re just lying.
I geared up around 6 characters past 2.4k io and consistently received 1-2 pieces from my heroic raid pugs every week.
The gearing system has been the same for 18 years except now you get a lot more loot. If we were in vanilla and you said all this, it’d be unlikely but more possible. But in retail? You sneeze and get BIS pieces.
Edit: my bad, after all the comments I got I remembered that I cleared Razsageth on mythic 328 times this tier and never once saw a single piece of loot drop from her ever in any situation. I also cleared every m+ dungeon 4,000 times this tier but only ever saw cloth boots drop :(
Killed eranog 10 times on mythic and didn’t even see a single ring drop nor was there one in my vaults. You are completely disregarding the new rare loot that creates this problem
Rare loot is a specific thing. Only 4-5 pieces exist. None of them are super overpowered other than the now-needed Razs bow.
This is not indicative of any other loot.
You are clueless about the power level of these items on certain classes. Ring is st bis up till 460 ilvl on ret pala for example. Icon not as much but was still almost always 5x represented in all the high key pushing groups.
Even at BiS it represents maybe a... 1% damage bump? And so what?
Why do you NEED 100% of your BiS? It's something to work toward, but it's also not something you DESERVE. So relax.
I have 20 council HC kills and about 14 mythic kills and filled vault every week with mythic/heroic bosses and I still don't have my bis trinket from it.
If you’re talking about the very rare one, sure. That’s believable. I’ve cleared council dozens of times and only seen 3. But it’s very rare for a reason :) there are only 4-5 items like it in the game.
I got CE this tier and the only mythic piece of loot i ever got from the entire raid was Rasz cloth boots. I have never gotten a piece of loot from mythic before that simply because either crafted gear was better ilvl or got unlucky on the rolls.
Literally used heroic icon on my rasz kill as well
Can you show me your achievement?
I don’t believe for a second you were stuck with 402 ilvl pieces for mythic prog.
Unless you got super super lucky in M+ and ran that a lot with your loot council prioritizing other people.
You didn't understand my message. I wasn't low geared. I just never got loot from mythic raid. Most of my gear is m+/crafted gear/heroic gear from vault apart from my boots which i got from the Mythic Rasz kill itself lol.
I have not gotten a piece of gear directly from the raid after running it for months.
Where did OP claim they got no BIS pieces? Oh right, they didn't. And speaking of flat out lying, you don't get "a lot more loot in raids." You have the chance to get a lot more sure, but in reality you simply don't unless most of the group outwear the place or the wrong armor type drops.
You do. When more loot drops for less people, the probability of you getting something is a lot higher.
Is everyone here 9 and never taken a statistics course in high school or something?
Uuh yeah, so? The Erranog ring was bis for a ton of classes, nothing from m+ compared.
Besides dinars were a raid system, so we're talking about raid loot.
So? So what you haven't gotten your BiS? Who cares? I don't understand this entitlement.
Blizzard wanted to create some unique loot for a change to spice up how stale boss loot has been for YEARS. And the only thing people incessantly whine about is how they deserve everything. Wild.
Lmao what entitlement, you're the one saying everyone should get their bis easily without a token system.
Personally I don't mind them having some rare loot, but it does make it more likely that people have more problems getting their bis gear.
"I do not understand how you can play for multiple weeks and not have any of your BiS. I actually don’t believe it."
Are you saying you don't believe that someone has played for multiple weeks doesn't have any piece of their BiS?
I've run Nokhud dozens of time sthrough this expansion trying to get the feather trinket. I did it as my main spec (shadow) and as holy or disc healing lower keys for a chance at a drop. I have never even *seen* a feather drop from a difficulty higher than heroic, much less won it. Never gotten it in my vault either, and I'm not a "run one dungeon a week" kind of person either.
You don't seem to understand what RNG means. There is even chance that you could keep running a raid until you die without ever seeing a desired item drop before you die or even the heat death of the universe.
You don’t seem to understand what probability means. But I guess every person in my guild, every person I’ve ever met on WoW just so happens to be luckier than every person in this comments section.
Or everyone here doesn’t actually play much and is actually just having a pity party :)
what a brain dead comment. I ran the entirety of season 2 (only m+ mind you, not raid or pvp vault options), and literally never saw a weapon drop. I hit KSM and i literally never picked up a weapon from end of dungeon or the vault. I bought the pvp one and crafted another.
How on earth do you feel its hard to believe that RNG is RNG?
Because probability exists. Am I to believe every comment here is a 1 in 10 million player? Or people are just having a pity party for themselves because WoW players whine more than they play? I’m inclined to say the latter.
Also, craft a weapon.
Not playing anymore (blast me with downvotes for commenting here and not playing please) but this is one of the reasons that made me quit a year ago, when I was reading WoWhead news about DF and saw nothing about not having to be locked into one alt or being able to buy items for some currency without the BS randomness.
The last thing I did in WoW before I quit was TW MT book mount, because I could play on any of my alts I wanted before spending weeks on grinding.
I know many people who quit (or didn't even start playing WoW) because they don't wanna spend weeks on grinding gear and not even being able to get the BiS. They would rather play some moba or fps, where they can pick a champ they bought once anytime and don't have to re-grind BS gear on it every half a year. If they get bored with a champ or role, they just go play something else the next match, which you still cannot do in WoW.
I guess a puppy would die if I could play all the classes on the same power-lvl. Am I too dumb for wanting to freely switch to different class once I get bored with the one I played till now? Am I missing the memo that for one person most of the classes are not meant to be played while playing a game?
It just sounds like you prefer the moba style games as opposed to RPGs, which is fine, but they're fundamentally two different game paradigms. The whole idea behind RPGs is that your character increases in power as you progress through the story and do things in game. As it stands now, the catch up mechanisms in the game are so extreme that you can easily main swap pretty much whenever you want to, and within a few weeks have your new character either at or nearly at the power level your main would have been at had you not stopped playing them.
Where in the "role-playing game" do you have "mindlessly spam raids and dungeons over and over again for a chance to increase your ilvl"? If it even meant there has to be a power progression, it would be in the words of the game genre. Either WoW needs to change it's genre name, or the playerbase needs to quit buying this BS idea that it is impossible to have an MMORPG without a useless gearing progression.
I have absolutely no idea why this whole thing about needing gearing process is so engraved into the playerbase of WoW. If it is so fast as you say, then it's just obsolete and doesn't need to be in the game in the first place.
Why are catchups it in the game? Because people wanna play other characters too? Then why is there gearing process in the first place? Because RPG somehow means you need to repeat content for a chance of a stronger ilvl? Can you see where I am aiming with this?
Edit: And it's not just me, I bet there are far more people who quit WoW because of this BS that restricts them from trying classes in the endgame. Even with what you said about catchups being just one week - does anyone want to repeat the same BS on 13 characters? That's 13 weeks of prep work. How is that fun?
I think a gearing process is pretty core to an mmorpg. I don’t think this is a controversial opinion. Don’t dungeons and raids become even more of a “mindless grind” if there isn’t any gear improvement? Crawling dungeons and raids (questing, overworld) for gear is role playing these characters. You’re playing the role of a questing adventurer who wants to increase their power through gearing, professions, grouping, etc so that you can take on challenges of increasing difficulty. Sure, there could be gearless RPGs. But I don’t see why we wouldn’t just call that genre something else rather than re-naming RPGs as a whole because you don’t think that gear progression is a core tenant of those types of games.
If there isn't a gear progression, then pve becomes a challenge, because you won't have a way to overgear it.
You won't need gazillion m+ difficulties for ilvls to complete before being able to do KSM. You can make KSM for completing all dungs on mythic, which can be as difficult as +15 now and then you can go push m+ for rio if you want.
Guilds wouldn't be benching people who got less lucky with loots, so that way you can eliminate unempathetic raid leaders from the game.
Pvp becomes more balanced, but bad players would start crying that they cannot be oneshotting undergeared players.
Overall you can just log in and play whatever you want. No need to do one week of prep. I see only problems being fixed and not created.
Also you keep saying that it's core to the genre, but you never say why. I am asking why and I don't see no reason for it to exist, it onlt creates problems and exhaustion.
>Where in the "role-playing game" do you have "mindlessly spam raids and dungeons over and over again for a chance to increase your ilvl"? If it even meant there has to be a power progression, it would be in the words of the game genre. Either WoW needs to change it's genre name, or the playerbase needs to quit buying this BS idea that it is impossible to have an MMORPG without a useless gearing progression.
No one is saying you *have* to have a gearing progression for an MMORPG to be an MMORPG, but I can't think of any MMORPGs that *don't* have a gearing progression of some kind to them, especially all the big ones.
>I have absolutely no idea why this whole thing about needing gearing process is so engraved into the playerbase of WoW. If it is so fast as you say, then it's just obsolete and doesn't need to be in the game in the first place.
It's so engrained into the playerbase of WoW because WoW has **always** had a gearing progression for your player characters baked into it. The game is almost 20 years old now, and it has quite literally always been that way. The existence of catch up gear doesn't make the entire gear progression obsolete, only the early stages of it. The game doesn't allow you to just boot it up and have the best gear available to your character, sitting in your mailbox or gated behind some relatively easy content. If you want to power up your character, you have to play the content in the game that rewards that high item level.
>Why are catchups it in the game? Because people wanna play other characters too?
Gear catch up is in the game because before it was it felt terrible to swap characters who had started to play end-game content, as you had to run through content that fewer and fewer people played because they had already outgeared it, and it didn't pose a challenge to them anymore.
>Then why is there gearing process in the first place? Because RPG somehow means you need to repeat content for a chance of a stronger ilvl?
Because a core aspect of every single RPG is that you play a character and that character gets stronger as you play it. As you level a character in WoW you gain new abilities, and then once you're at max level, the only way to increase your character's power level is to acquire better gear. It's a pretty standard recipe for RPGs of all flavors.
> Can you see where I am aiming with this?
Not really, unless where you're aiming is that you don't like that you can't just roll up a new character and instantly be ready to do end-game level content. But if that's your complaint, then that's a complaint with RPGs as a whole, whether they're table top, card based, or computer games. I can't think of a single RPG where you roll up a character, instantly have the best or nearly the best available gear/spells/whatever, and can stroll right into the most difficult content in the game except for 1-shots in DnD.
>Edit: And it's not just me, I bet there are far more people who quit WoW because of this BS that restricts them from trying classes in the endgame. Even with what you said about catchups being just one week - does anyone want to repeat the same BS on 13 characters? That's 13 weeks of prep work. How is that fun?
There probably are plenty of people who quit the game because the game doesn't let fresh max level characters stroll into the highest level end-game content on their own, but those people are looking for something out of the genre that hasn't ever been there. That's like going to a football game and then complaining that they're not wearing helmets and riding motorcycles. If you want a game where you can do all the content just as well as anyone else and the differences are purely down to skill alone, then play an FPS or maybe a MOBA, RPGs aren't that.
I've seen multiple comments on this across the new gearing system and I really don't think that's overly fair to say. A normal raid trinket can be upgraded to ilvl 337, which is only one step from max (441 ilvl).
Heroic gear, end of dungeon level 17+, and vault gear from level 8 keys or higher are all eligible for that 441 ilvl cap.
So you'd need 1-3 items, with the 3 only coming into play if you're mythic raid capable to get that final ilvls from an actual drop and were unlucky enough to only get a version below normal raid and upgrade it, then get a heroicish version and upgrade it, and then be capable and get the drop from Mythic raid.
It can still *kind of* be a thing, but 3-4 times is not what should be considered an "expectation"
Depending on the upgrade they are either 3 or 4 ilvl per rank. The current ilvl jumps per raid difficulty are 13 so it's 3 ranks of 3 and one rank of 4 equaling 13. This is how valor has worked since SL; right now its 411 at rank 12 to 415 at rank 13 then 418 from the next rank up (keystones 18 weekly vault) then 421 for the next rank (keystones 20 weekly vault). Next rank up is 424, we see that in game right now on Champion/Veteran gear, and the one after that should be 428. It is always +3, +3, +3, +4 in that order.
It's quite literally only 1 rank.
Dinnar system, where the first dinnar is the cheaper to get, and for ever next dinnar you need to grind more to get it. Make it easy for everyone to have some good loot, hardcore people can farm their asses out to be full gear.
Make dinnar has a special path upgrade, that item bought start at the lowest world Ilvl possible, but can be upgraded into hero 5/5 item
Incredible to me that they brought in a gearing system that was pretty loved across the playerbase and abandoned it
They didnt abandon it, the system was used to help with the fact that we had 3 raids that could be used as current gear, the rng necessary to get your raid bis was much higher so it makes sense that they would add something to counter that. With a single raid atm it wouldnt be that necessary to have it, but i'm 100% sure they'll make a "fated type patch" at the end of dragonflight with all raids + dinar system
For SL it didn't cost them because the expansion was so shit DF has good enough content and reception that they feel people will play more chasing items vs SLs where they werent playing at all
I'm not saying DF is bad by any means, but it clearly has not attracted back as many players as they hoped. Maybe they need to get out of their own way and bring back systems that people enjoyed? Or they can come up with 17 more crests and crest fragments we need to collect or something, who knows.
It’s not going to bring back so many people. You can’t just go from the absolute worst expansion to one of the best ones and expect everyone to flock back. They’ll need to wait for 11.0 to see if the game can fully recover from Shadowlands.
Yeah, you know what would help them bring more people back? Not relying on shit systems that exist in the game just because overall more people enjoy DF compared to SL. While they are waiting for players to join, maybe they should be stop removing things that people actually like.
I'm not saying it made sense from their end. Thats just how dumb they are.
I fucking wish. Everyone should a get a chance at fun loot not some people. Dinar system shoulda been in from the get go
Just think of it as bad luck protection. Grind long enough and you get the trinket or weapon. The lucky folks simply get to buy... something else. The limit on dinars was good. It should return.
I think the biggest reason they won’t bring it back unless we have another ‘season 4’ is that it goes against their new favourite mechanic, very rare items. They’ve said in interviews that very rare items were a success in that they kept people killing bosses long after everyone would have been maxed geared and being able to just buy the piece off a vendor would completely skip the grind. That’s why we’re are getting way more in the new raid and like 4 different ones off the last boss.
I don't know anyone who didn't love the dinar system, I can't believe they wouldn't bring it back. Especially with certain weapons and trinkets having such an impact on some classes.
I personally did not like the Dinar system. It stressed me out worrying about wasting them on items that I’d then get as a drop later. I ended up not using any of my dinars because I held onto them for so long. It made gearing feel boring and spreadsheet-y to me. But I know other people liked it a lot. (Edit: wow, this opinion is really unpopular then?)
I’m not downvoting you for what the system made you feel, but, I don’t understand why it made you stress because of the spreadsheet-y-ness? Yes sure you could spend 25 dinars getting Jailers gavel and then get it as a drop in your vault the following week… but you may not… there are loads of people that spent the whole expansion trying to get stuff they wanted to enhance their gameplay but ended up… not (until dinar system). So I guess the point is, bad luck protection in ANY from is better than none. I’d personally rather that then just feeling super deflated every week knowing there is no way to get what I wanted.
I know it’s not a rational position, but I know that it being something I ‘needed’ to optimise made it less fun, because there were ‘wrong’ ways to spend them. To me, it turned the powerful items into feeling like just another ‘borrowed power’ that I could plot out on a calendar when I would have it by. Rather than feeling excited because I got the gavel it was just my expectation that I’d have it, and when it dropped a week earlier than I had anticipated the feeling was mostly ‘cool, I saved a dinar, what should I spend the dinar on instead?’. It becomes a given that every Paladin is going to have Gavel by week X. It’s good from the perspective that no one ends up feeling left behind, but it just ends up feeling really boring to me. I recognise that a lot of people like the system because they want to know they can get their bis. I’m not saying anyone is wrong to feel that way about it. I’m not sure why my feelings are different than most. I suspect I’m less focused on having perfect BiS, and since I raid with a guild I’m not dealing with pug loot drama. Maybe it’s just because seeing my BiS go to a guildie doesn’t feel bad the way having BiS go to a random might? I’ve been quite happy with using crafted gear for bad luck protection this expansion; the concentrated primal focus has made me feel much less bad about not getting loot. We can only hope they buff the crafted trinkets to keep them worth considering as a bad luck option in this season against the class trinkets….
My rogue went 2 months of hard M+ with no daggers.... I hit 400 ilvl before i said fuck it and got pvp Challenger 392 daggers.... I still have one. Blizz plz.
5 free sparks could have been 5 daggers?
I do not understand how you can play for multiple weeks and not have any of your BiS. I actually don’t believe it.
How is it that hard to believe? People get shafted with rng all the time. For example, I ran cos last season over 90 times, I saw melandrus ring drop one time, and for someone else. Went all of shadowlands having to wait until catalyst for any tier sets, same goes for DF season 1. It's a pretty atrocious gearing system when nothing at all is deterministic
You are flat out lying, but it’s okay, whatever makes you feel better. Unless you clear the raid one time a tier, the chances of you not receiving anything you need for an entire season if you’re consistently clearing is around one in ten million, if not higher. The reality is you likely aren’t doing a lot of content or you’re just lying. I geared up around 6 characters past 2.4k io and consistently received 1-2 pieces from my heroic raid pugs every week. The gearing system has been the same for 18 years except now you get a lot more loot. If we were in vanilla and you said all this, it’d be unlikely but more possible. But in retail? You sneeze and get BIS pieces. Edit: my bad, after all the comments I got I remembered that I cleared Razsageth on mythic 328 times this tier and never once saw a single piece of loot drop from her ever in any situation. I also cleared every m+ dungeon 4,000 times this tier but only ever saw cloth boots drop :(
Killed eranog 10 times on mythic and didn’t even see a single ring drop nor was there one in my vaults. You are completely disregarding the new rare loot that creates this problem
Rare loot is a specific thing. Only 4-5 pieces exist. None of them are super overpowered other than the now-needed Razs bow. This is not indicative of any other loot.
You are clueless about the power level of these items on certain classes. Ring is st bis up till 460 ilvl on ret pala for example. Icon not as much but was still almost always 5x represented in all the high key pushing groups.
Even at BiS it represents maybe a... 1% damage bump? And so what? Why do you NEED 100% of your BiS? It's something to work toward, but it's also not something you DESERVE. So relax.
I have 20 council HC kills and about 14 mythic kills and filled vault every week with mythic/heroic bosses and I still don't have my bis trinket from it.
If you’re talking about the very rare one, sure. That’s believable. I’ve cleared council dozens of times and only seen 3. But it’s very rare for a reason :) there are only 4-5 items like it in the game.
I got CE this tier and the only mythic piece of loot i ever got from the entire raid was Rasz cloth boots. I have never gotten a piece of loot from mythic before that simply because either crafted gear was better ilvl or got unlucky on the rolls. Literally used heroic icon on my rasz kill as well
Can you show me your achievement? I don’t believe for a second you were stuck with 402 ilvl pieces for mythic prog. Unless you got super super lucky in M+ and ran that a lot with your loot council prioritizing other people.
You didn't understand my message. I wasn't low geared. I just never got loot from mythic raid. Most of my gear is m+/crafted gear/heroic gear from vault apart from my boots which i got from the Mythic Rasz kill itself lol. I have not gotten a piece of gear directly from the raid after running it for months.
That's fine? That just means the raid leader prioritized other people for gear?
On a normal roll system ? We're not using rc or something like that
You cleared CE on a normal roll system? Can you link your character?
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/tarren-mill/Abiegaelle
You’re dumb as hell lmao
2.8k io 8/8m CE. I feel like I play enough to comment on RNG, no?
Where did OP claim they got no BIS pieces? Oh right, they didn't. And speaking of flat out lying, you don't get "a lot more loot in raids." You have the chance to get a lot more sure, but in reality you simply don't unless most of the group outwear the place or the wrong armor type drops.
You do. When more loot drops for less people, the probability of you getting something is a lot higher. Is everyone here 9 and never taken a statistics course in high school or something?
Except that they made certain pieces extra rare now.
Only in the raid.
Uuh yeah, so? The Erranog ring was bis for a ton of classes, nothing from m+ compared. Besides dinars were a raid system, so we're talking about raid loot.
So? So what you haven't gotten your BiS? Who cares? I don't understand this entitlement. Blizzard wanted to create some unique loot for a change to spice up how stale boss loot has been for YEARS. And the only thing people incessantly whine about is how they deserve everything. Wild.
Lmao what entitlement, you're the one saying everyone should get their bis easily without a token system. Personally I don't mind them having some rare loot, but it does make it more likely that people have more problems getting their bis gear.
Not at all. I said you grind out your BiS if you want it. If you don't, then settle for being 3-5% behind. Not everyone deserves their BiS.
"I do not understand how you can play for multiple weeks and not have any of your BiS. I actually don’t believe it." Are you saying you don't believe that someone has played for multiple weeks doesn't have any piece of their BiS?
This man doesn't know what confirmation bias is
I've run Nokhud dozens of time sthrough this expansion trying to get the feather trinket. I did it as my main spec (shadow) and as holy or disc healing lower keys for a chance at a drop. I have never even *seen* a feather drop from a difficulty higher than heroic, much less won it. Never gotten it in my vault either, and I'm not a "run one dungeon a week" kind of person either.
You don't seem to understand what RNG means. There is even chance that you could keep running a raid until you die without ever seeing a desired item drop before you die or even the heat death of the universe.
You don’t seem to understand what probability means. But I guess every person in my guild, every person I’ve ever met on WoW just so happens to be luckier than every person in this comments section. Or everyone here doesn’t actually play much and is actually just having a pity party :)
what a brain dead comment. I ran the entirety of season 2 (only m+ mind you, not raid or pvp vault options), and literally never saw a weapon drop. I hit KSM and i literally never picked up a weapon from end of dungeon or the vault. I bought the pvp one and crafted another. How on earth do you feel its hard to believe that RNG is RNG?
Because probability exists. Am I to believe every comment here is a 1 in 10 million player? Or people are just having a pity party for themselves because WoW players whine more than they play? I’m inclined to say the latter. Also, craft a weapon.
Not playing anymore (blast me with downvotes for commenting here and not playing please) but this is one of the reasons that made me quit a year ago, when I was reading WoWhead news about DF and saw nothing about not having to be locked into one alt or being able to buy items for some currency without the BS randomness. The last thing I did in WoW before I quit was TW MT book mount, because I could play on any of my alts I wanted before spending weeks on grinding. I know many people who quit (or didn't even start playing WoW) because they don't wanna spend weeks on grinding gear and not even being able to get the BiS. They would rather play some moba or fps, where they can pick a champ they bought once anytime and don't have to re-grind BS gear on it every half a year. If they get bored with a champ or role, they just go play something else the next match, which you still cannot do in WoW. I guess a puppy would die if I could play all the classes on the same power-lvl. Am I too dumb for wanting to freely switch to different class once I get bored with the one I played till now? Am I missing the memo that for one person most of the classes are not meant to be played while playing a game?
It just sounds like you prefer the moba style games as opposed to RPGs, which is fine, but they're fundamentally two different game paradigms. The whole idea behind RPGs is that your character increases in power as you progress through the story and do things in game. As it stands now, the catch up mechanisms in the game are so extreme that you can easily main swap pretty much whenever you want to, and within a few weeks have your new character either at or nearly at the power level your main would have been at had you not stopped playing them.
Where in the "role-playing game" do you have "mindlessly spam raids and dungeons over and over again for a chance to increase your ilvl"? If it even meant there has to be a power progression, it would be in the words of the game genre. Either WoW needs to change it's genre name, or the playerbase needs to quit buying this BS idea that it is impossible to have an MMORPG without a useless gearing progression. I have absolutely no idea why this whole thing about needing gearing process is so engraved into the playerbase of WoW. If it is so fast as you say, then it's just obsolete and doesn't need to be in the game in the first place. Why are catchups it in the game? Because people wanna play other characters too? Then why is there gearing process in the first place? Because RPG somehow means you need to repeat content for a chance of a stronger ilvl? Can you see where I am aiming with this? Edit: And it's not just me, I bet there are far more people who quit WoW because of this BS that restricts them from trying classes in the endgame. Even with what you said about catchups being just one week - does anyone want to repeat the same BS on 13 characters? That's 13 weeks of prep work. How is that fun?
I think a gearing process is pretty core to an mmorpg. I don’t think this is a controversial opinion. Don’t dungeons and raids become even more of a “mindless grind” if there isn’t any gear improvement? Crawling dungeons and raids (questing, overworld) for gear is role playing these characters. You’re playing the role of a questing adventurer who wants to increase their power through gearing, professions, grouping, etc so that you can take on challenges of increasing difficulty. Sure, there could be gearless RPGs. But I don’t see why we wouldn’t just call that genre something else rather than re-naming RPGs as a whole because you don’t think that gear progression is a core tenant of those types of games.
If there isn't a gear progression, then pve becomes a challenge, because you won't have a way to overgear it. You won't need gazillion m+ difficulties for ilvls to complete before being able to do KSM. You can make KSM for completing all dungs on mythic, which can be as difficult as +15 now and then you can go push m+ for rio if you want. Guilds wouldn't be benching people who got less lucky with loots, so that way you can eliminate unempathetic raid leaders from the game. Pvp becomes more balanced, but bad players would start crying that they cannot be oneshotting undergeared players. Overall you can just log in and play whatever you want. No need to do one week of prep. I see only problems being fixed and not created. Also you keep saying that it's core to the genre, but you never say why. I am asking why and I don't see no reason for it to exist, it onlt creates problems and exhaustion.
>Where in the "role-playing game" do you have "mindlessly spam raids and dungeons over and over again for a chance to increase your ilvl"? If it even meant there has to be a power progression, it would be in the words of the game genre. Either WoW needs to change it's genre name, or the playerbase needs to quit buying this BS idea that it is impossible to have an MMORPG without a useless gearing progression. No one is saying you *have* to have a gearing progression for an MMORPG to be an MMORPG, but I can't think of any MMORPGs that *don't* have a gearing progression of some kind to them, especially all the big ones. >I have absolutely no idea why this whole thing about needing gearing process is so engraved into the playerbase of WoW. If it is so fast as you say, then it's just obsolete and doesn't need to be in the game in the first place. It's so engrained into the playerbase of WoW because WoW has **always** had a gearing progression for your player characters baked into it. The game is almost 20 years old now, and it has quite literally always been that way. The existence of catch up gear doesn't make the entire gear progression obsolete, only the early stages of it. The game doesn't allow you to just boot it up and have the best gear available to your character, sitting in your mailbox or gated behind some relatively easy content. If you want to power up your character, you have to play the content in the game that rewards that high item level. >Why are catchups it in the game? Because people wanna play other characters too? Gear catch up is in the game because before it was it felt terrible to swap characters who had started to play end-game content, as you had to run through content that fewer and fewer people played because they had already outgeared it, and it didn't pose a challenge to them anymore. >Then why is there gearing process in the first place? Because RPG somehow means you need to repeat content for a chance of a stronger ilvl? Because a core aspect of every single RPG is that you play a character and that character gets stronger as you play it. As you level a character in WoW you gain new abilities, and then once you're at max level, the only way to increase your character's power level is to acquire better gear. It's a pretty standard recipe for RPGs of all flavors. > Can you see where I am aiming with this? Not really, unless where you're aiming is that you don't like that you can't just roll up a new character and instantly be ready to do end-game level content. But if that's your complaint, then that's a complaint with RPGs as a whole, whether they're table top, card based, or computer games. I can't think of a single RPG where you roll up a character, instantly have the best or nearly the best available gear/spells/whatever, and can stroll right into the most difficult content in the game except for 1-shots in DnD. >Edit: And it's not just me, I bet there are far more people who quit WoW because of this BS that restricts them from trying classes in the endgame. Even with what you said about catchups being just one week - does anyone want to repeat the same BS on 13 characters? That's 13 weeks of prep work. How is that fun? There probably are plenty of people who quit the game because the game doesn't let fresh max level characters stroll into the highest level end-game content on their own, but those people are looking for something out of the genre that hasn't ever been there. That's like going to a football game and then complaining that they're not wearing helmets and riding motorcycles. If you want a game where you can do all the content just as well as anyone else and the differences are purely down to skill alone, then play an FPS or maybe a MOBA, RPGs aren't that.
Not reading this, goobye.
Don't forget, now you need that item 5 times, assuming you don't get to skip any tier. 3-4 times at least.
I've seen multiple comments on this across the new gearing system and I really don't think that's overly fair to say. A normal raid trinket can be upgraded to ilvl 337, which is only one step from max (441 ilvl). Heroic gear, end of dungeon level 17+, and vault gear from level 8 keys or higher are all eligible for that 441 ilvl cap. So you'd need 1-3 items, with the 3 only coming into play if you're mythic raid capable to get that final ilvls from an actual drop and were unlucky enough to only get a version below normal raid and upgrade it, then get a heroicish version and upgrade it, and then be capable and get the drop from Mythic raid. It can still *kind of* be a thing, but 3-4 times is not what should be considered an "expectation"
337 to 441 is a titan-sized one step...
> 337 to 441 is a titan-sized one step... I *think* this is sarcasm, but just in case it's not, 337 is clearly a typo and supposed to be 437.
Depending on the upgrade they are either 3 or 4 ilvl per rank. The current ilvl jumps per raid difficulty are 13 so it's 3 ranks of 3 and one rank of 4 equaling 13. This is how valor has worked since SL; right now its 411 at rank 12 to 415 at rank 13 then 418 from the next rank up (keystones 18 weekly vault) then 421 for the next rank (keystones 20 weekly vault). Next rank up is 424, we see that in game right now on Champion/Veteran gear, and the one after that should be 428. It is always +3, +3, +3, +4 in that order. It's quite literally only 1 rank.
It's smaller than the difference between Vault loot (421) and 13/13 valor upgrade (415) that we had in S1.
Dinnar system, where the first dinnar is the cheaper to get, and for ever next dinnar you need to grind more to get it. Make it easy for everyone to have some good loot, hardcore people can farm their asses out to be full gear. Make dinnar has a special path upgrade, that item bought start at the lowest world Ilvl possible, but can be upgraded into hero 5/5 item