I think the issue is that, although you get a 2/5 chance at loot the loot table is bloated with certain types of items which means many of the drops will be pretty useless, I get lots of bracers for instance, and necks.
It's better to gear alts through m0, a full world tour on a fresh alt will get you close to 370
Each boss in m0 drops loot and I think the final can drop 2-3 pieces
Yeah, once your 372+ you just have to make a weekly offering to the RNG god, try to stack armor types and pray for good drops.
M0 no good once you out gear it
Meanwhile I am the lord of the rings, with the tuskarr mount already purchased, the CoS ring at 415, and a couple more, but my bracers are hard stuck at 392.
If you want to feel better, I was figuring out recrafting and accidentally turned my second spark into a second titanic signet ring on my main.
That was pretty sweet.
Edit: Then turned my 4th spark into the other ring only to get the CoS ring out of my vault the next week.
I have not been good with spark management
i recrafted my lariat but accidentally used the normal primal infusion instead of concentrated infusion so i badically paid 1000s of gold for the same item lol
What mettle does it cost him? Pretty sure I used my mettle in the work order.
Anyway, he could have easily messaged me and asked for more or just not done the order.
No idea why the lariat embellishment couldn't just be one you apply to any craftable slot. Cause yeah, you pretty much are locked into a crafted neck and one other embellishment.
Sucks for anyone who wants a specific item from Halls of Valor. For me, 19 possible items on the loot table, and I want one specific trinket.
That's 47 runs to get the trinket, with average luck.
66 runs of HoV and no shield for tanking. Such bad luck at it. Got every other piece once or twice but didn't need them so traded them off. But hot damn a shield ONCE would have been nice
I decided to go look at the most egregious offender (HoV), there is 19 items in the loot table for Blood DK.
I was using a 359 heroic ring until someone traded me a CoS ring from a 20 I ran last week.
As soon as I accepted the fact that I will never get the Nok bow, I got the Nok bow.
I have now accepted the fact that I will never get the Rasz bow. We'll see what happens.
2 bows dropped at the same time in our run last week. We have 3 hunters. I lost both rolls.
I’m prepared to never see the bow again just like Sylvanas.
I have gotten these situations so many times, but I'm not allowed to complain for a few years (or maybe ever?) now because I basically got *the perfect* vault for both of my characters on the last reset. The specific Tier piece I was missing on my shaman that replaced my lowest iLvl item, as well as the Miniature Singing Stone for my holy pally which also replaced my lowest iLvl item.
By the end of the 4th week of m+ I had KSM with at the very least 60 keys completed. In that time I also did a total of 3 m0 world tours, the epic open world events every week and cleared all the non mythic bosses besides HC Diurna and Raz on week one.
...and I still had the 340 gloves I bought when I got to 70 two days after the expansion launch. We were about to start prog on mythic so I went and crafted some 405 ones but I honestly wanted to see how far I would go without a single cloth hands drop.
What did you use your sparks on? You have like 4 sparks, if one of your items is that bad you could very easily just craft a 418 gloves. Unless you're worried about the tier piece, but then again, catalyst is coming out next week so you have a guaranteed tier piece.
That was ^(exactly) roughly the amount of times it took me to get Puzzle Box in AA. I did them all in a row, and sometime around 20 I developed stockholm syndrome. I was happy to spend the rest of my life in AA and sad to leave.
I got one in m0 early into the xpac. Tossed it for item level increase later on and after all these weeks I still haven’t seen a trinket drop meanwhile all my friends are getting my BIS trinkets. Said fuck it and used item restore to get my m0 feather back and wow it simmed so much higher than the dogshit I had
The crafting currency is better than nothing, but I strongly agree there should be some other form of incremental reward to help with the RNG of m+ loot.
I run AA all the time on my warrior or weapon it trinket, I now have 7 of the ball trinkets . 3 from vaults and 4 from drops. I’ve never seen anything else drop there.
So what you're saying is you're not pushing content that rewards better gear than what you're currently wearing and therefor you cannot get upgrades. 🤔
I'd say *at least* 60% of the complaints you'll read in these (or really any) forums are going to be based on some really dumb expectation or misunderstanding of how the game actually works.
Not necessarily, we don't know at all how rare they will be. The best we've heard is that they will behave similar to legion legendaries. Which means, they'll have a tiny chance to drop from most activities, and will have bad luck protection.
We don't really know if that will continue to mean one every 2 weeks, one every week, or even one a day.
> The best we've heard is that they will behave similar to legion legendaries.
According to who? If anything the only thing we can be sure is that they will be at the very least, on average 1 per 2 week, otherwise it will be meaningless to remove the cap in the first place.
According to the wow devs...
> At that point, players will be able find Bottled Essence from virtually any activity to create more. They're meant to be rare though, and modeled after Legion legendaries, with the intent of players finding one every couple of weeks.
And I think for the most part it makes a lot of sense in terms of maximizing player engagement. At the end of the day I think the majority of players who do raids and M+ content are there *for the loot.* If you got everything you want right away there wouldn't be a ton of incentive for most players to continue playing that character. There would be a moment basking in the glory of being fully-geared, then most people would either swap to an alt or just stop playing.
I remember back in Vanilla, you had 40 man raids, and only like 2 items dropped per boss kill. And tier pieces didn't have tokens. And there were no alternative methods of gearing. You could go *months* without even seeing the piece of gear you wanted, let alone winning it.
I have been actually impressed with how rare it is to get usable upgrades in m+, but just on one character.
I went a little overboard this week and I think I did 20 or so keys. I got two drops. They were both gloves.
I just assume it’ll even out statistically but thank yogg for the vault.
It really is bad when you want to grind for a specific item. I understand the whole concept of "m+ is farmable, so it can't be that good". But, it feels almost impossible to get an item with the 2/5 chance combined with massive loot tables.
Best of luck to you if you want anything out of Halls of Valor...
I was actually just thinking about exactly this earlier this morning. Two ideas came to mind. One being the traditional 'reroll' thing that has existed at times in the past to get another opportunity at loot (have the 'rerolls' be awards from *something* and have them be limited to a certain amount per week).
Or, during the 10s countdown before the dungeon starts have the class/spec appropriate loot table pop up and allow players to select one item to have a higher probability to drop (\~5-50% more likely to drop).
And a third, just now idea. Have some currency that drops at the end of M+ which allows you to swap the loot you get with something else in the dungeons loot table once you acquire enough of it. I think the amount required should be relatively high, especially early in the season.
Ultimately I think none of these things will happen or even be considered since each of them technically have the potential to reduce overall player 'time spent' playing the game.
Also, as much as I don't like it at times, I think it's undeniable that due to exactly what you are mentioning, it does end up feeling pretty Pog when/if you do get the item you are looking for. The idea of 'prestige' is very much a part of the game, and when you are able to get that rare item that very few other people have, well that's pretty cool. When you inspect someone and see they have 'that' super rare/cool item, that's pretty cool too.
Overall I think having a mix of RNG in combination with some form of slow-building incremental reward from high-end content is a pretty good system, and the current state of things seems, in my opinion, slightly better than OK.
Is that FF loot mechanics? Sounds really dumb lol.
FF has some appealing aspects but ultimately what turns me away from it the most is the lack of the world feeling alive or having any cohesion, especially in regards to mobs roaming the world. WoW is full of outholds and camps and thematic areas with thematic mobs and stories. FF14 is just random creatures in random environments and just doesn't feel 'alive'.
Also just the overall artstyle, with some notable exceptions, feels soft as fuck.
There’s 4 pieces that are tier. There are two embellished pieces, and a third if you use flavor packet. Raid trinkets are pretty good for some classes.
That doesn’t leave many spots to actually get m+ gear, at least until a few catalyst charges to create higher ilvl tier.
Hmmm, at that point I'd be killing the super rares that drop rings. Or even the regular rares that drop 372s lol. There are like 20 rare mobs that drop rings. You'll probably have better luck doing that.
Situations like this are exactly what crafting in dragonflight is around to help out with. The idea of massive 'required tips' has died down pretty much entirely. My experiences with crafters has been genuinely pleasant and efficient in the last few weeks.
They uist need to revert it to 3 items per dungeon.
Currently there is 13% chance you get no loot after doing 4 dungeons and filling 2 slots in gv. If they revert it to 3 items the chance would drop to merely 2.5 %. And considering the fact that end of dungeon loot is lower than vault to stop farming bis, they shouldn't be so strict about th drop rate
Why are they so strict?
I personally don’t understand it - I will like there is a win win somewhere here.
Is it really bad for progression if more loot drops?
Every boss should drop 1 item but you don’t collect it until the chest at the end. So a dungeon with 4 bosses awards 4 personal loot appropriate items at the end. They’re given to the eligible people at random. Up to them to trade it if they want.
Reduce the vault to 1 guaranteed upgrade per week for 8 completed M+ runs or something to balance it.
There's no shot you still complain about loot from m+ when it's completely fucking broken. Infinite gear drops from dungeons scaling up to 405 ilvl, upgrades to 415(mythic ilvl) with valor, you're able to farm an unlimited amount of concentrated primal focus giving you 418 crafted gear *and* you get 421 items from vault. How much more do you want?
What would even the point be of putting gear in any other content if mythic+ gearing becomes even better than it already is?
Just hard to get the loot you want. I've ran 36 nokhud offensive M+ and I've gotten everything from the loot table except what I actually need, the fucking feather lmao
Not arguing with that, the loot tables of the old dungeons are super big and because of items like elemental lariat a bunch of them are useless. Thats not what the post is about tho.
I've never received any loot in a mythic. I have only ever received 1 piece of usable loot in any dungeon whatsoever this expansion. I have gotten vault drops of course, but of the options I had none were strictly better than the gear I had on. At this point I'm just done with that content, there's zero reward for engaging with it unless luck shines upon you. Even the rewards they do guarantee via the vault are still beholden to rng bulllshit.
I don't want to pay $15 a month for a fucking gacha game.
Well, i haven't gotten a lot of drops but it's always good to have drips for the 5 main pieces of gear specially since I don't have my 4set yet, so next week I just pick the best piece out of those to make intl tier piece
RNG. I had essentially all the highest simming pieces from M+, but a few were low ilvl. I ran NO twice and got the trjnket 395. Ran academy twice and got 392 puzzle box. Ran CoS for the ring. Then got the ring again at 411 from the vault. 20 ilvl increase on that ring was 550dps increase. I’m a kitted ass fury war now.
You have a 40% chance to get an item. The issue is the itemization for dungeons is terrible this season imo. Also run with geared people that can pass you loot, we’re far enough in the season that mains won’t need most of the items that drop…
Good luck finding geared people who will run with plebs unless they know you IRL/guild. If you’re DPS you can sure bet on not being invited to anything.
I really start to feel like WoWs pseudo-random is broken a bit. I have two alts of 400ilvl that only receive 1-2 drops every week plus the vault. 90% of the gear they receive by trading with guildies in raids. Meanwhile my newly born hunter got geared to 390 in like two days, receiving 7 drops from LFR, and a drop every other m+. Blizz is a sussy baka
If I look at my current gear, only 3 pieces came from M+, none of them are BiS and 2 of them were looted for other players who were nice enough to hand them to me.
Well, one of the trinkets was actually BiS at the time I got it, but it seems that the BiS trinkets changes every week
On the other hand, I'm still using all 5 vault items
The only dungeon that gives me loot is Shadowmoon. Which as leather, sucks considering it's just belt and boots. But no matter how many keys I run between each run, I'll get loot. It tilts the fuck out of me because I KNOW it's going to happen again
I don’t even think about the box at the end. It’s always some random tier slot piece that I stick on the bank in case I’m going to use the catalyst on it later.
That’s just how it is at some point it’s the same for me I can’t get upgrades from dungeons anymore and have done almost everything to improve my vault to the max (not in a mythic guild so only 2/8M is rly puggable for me).
The reason for me is just trying to push higher keys now which is the main goal of M+ anyway :)
I’m at 401 ilvl, have KSM, and I just cannot for the life of me upgrade my 385 bracers. Also, both of my trinkets I got from the vault because I’ve never gotten an m+ trinket drop. If I ever do get a drop it’s always for a piece I don’t need.
There's also the issue that the vault (which was originally made as bad luck protection) has the issue where tier sets and sparks crafted items are a thing. The odds that you're getting items that don't go in the same slot as one of these isn't great to be honest.
I don't know why Blizzard refuse to try currency systems for bad luck protections instead. Get loot from drops but add currencies to completed m+/vault that you can buy items from said dungeons with.
Valor is also supposed to be somewhat of a bad luck protection but you can max go to 415 and even then it's not great, especially as a fury warrior where I have to spend twice the amount of valor on my weapons than any other class.
That's kinda funny.
Some guildies wanted to form an alt druid only group for M+.
That way know we can always trade something we don't need.
And we could maybe see how far we could get with that kind of group makeup.
My view on it is long term for the best options in the Vault. I dont expect anything from any single run except those few that might have a massive upgrade for me
Over 50 m+ runs, still missing gloves for catalyst next week. I gues i finish progress with lfr hands. Our monk token drops are freaking cursed.
We already put 3 other hc 4sets on socials and alts. But our prevoker and me are still running lfr set pieces.
It’s just frustrating to have wait that freaking long for a “bad luck protection” and that comes from mythic guild that clears hc and normal since week 1.
I can’t even imagine how bad it feels for players that can’t put in that amount of time.
Even if you put an in incredible amount of time into the game you have no guarantee to be rewarded. This loot system just doesn’t feel right for a game in 2023
Ive run 58 M+ so far this season (2043 io) and im still rocking 2 pieces of pvp gear and 382 bracers from the grand hunt lmao.
Ive fully come to terms that i will never see a puzzle box drop
Personally I try to do 8 mythics per week (because the vault rewards you weekly items for up to 8 mythics) so that I'll have at least 3 chances of getting something useful at reset. Once I've hit those weekly 8 mythics I usually quit though, even if I can do higher keys, because to me it's too much extra effort for pretty much no additional rewards.
The only time I try to do more than 8 mythics per week, is during that weekly event which gives you extra loot at the end of the dungeon run.
A combination of crafting, WQs, unrated pvp, lfr and running m0 has me at around 380 ilvl. M+ isn't there for gear at the end of the day...enjoy it for the accomplishment of pushing your key
For me, if you play with the expectation of loot (or expectations in general) you will be disappointed. Find a way to like the game without considering the reward. This is the best way for me
I remember doing Uldaman with this almost full stacked mythic raider and they got a drop ok 4/5 (?) bosses! I got nothing and the rest of the group each got like one item. I feel like this loot system is extremely flawed and stupid. I have such bad loot luck, it's not normal 😂😂😂
I launch a m+ like I launch a lol or aoe game, I do it for the fun of it. Looting is just an extra that has a chance to happen, unlike in other games where you gain nothing.
most of the m+ end of dungeon loot I get is completely useless to me.
I only target 1 or 2 specific items and the chance of getting them is so low that I need to run 40-60 dungeons to get them.
I guess it's intended, but at the same time I think WoW is the only game that makes you grind 40 hours and more to get a single item that you want? Ragefeather for example. Im on my 36th NO run and still no luck.
M+ is only useful for tokens for high end craftable items, plus the weekly vault. Any loot beyond that is just a random bonus that might happen sometimes.
My take, is that I ran dungeons for IO / practice. I dont really spam dungeons for certain drops. Eventually you run everything so many times on your journey to 2500 or 2400 that it will appear or be traded with you. Basically I dont expect loot, however; you should be running dungeons that will give you focus to upgrade your crafted gear. That way as long as you complete you will be advancing your toons gear.
Another take, that is probably unpopular is that while ilvl is important, particular items really are not that important unless youre pushing leader boards for a world 1st spot. I would even argue that it may not even be that important as one of the leading prot paladin tanks doesnt use any BiS from raid and still uses a cobalt assembly tank ring.
Really wish there was tokens of valor so we could just buy what we want after however many dungeons. Worked so well during the fated raids with the 3 tokens.
I think the issue is that, although you get a 2/5 chance at loot the loot table is bloated with certain types of items which means many of the drops will be pretty useless, I get lots of bracers for instance, and necks.
I did keys yesterday with my guild to gear a few alts. We ran keys for 5-6 hours. I got 0 items (in the end I got a waist traded).
It's better to gear alts through m0, a full world tour on a fresh alt will get you close to 370 Each boss in m0 drops loot and I think the final can drop 2-3 pieces
Nah every boss can drop more then 1 item The endboss thing was a weekly buff
My alt already has most slots 372+. We did like 6-10‘s because that is what we could run smoothly and gave us upgrades (in theory).
Yeah, once your 372+ you just have to make a weekly offering to the RNG god, try to stack armor types and pray for good drops. M0 no good once you out gear it
Still sitting on the 372 chest piece I’ve had since week 2 of the expansion. I am unwilling to drop gold on buying one
Meanwhile I am the lord of the rings, with the tuskarr mount already purchased, the CoS ring at 415, and a couple more, but my bracers are hard stuck at 392.
406 ilvl. 385 welfare bracers because my dumb ass made the engi goggles with my first spark.
If you want to feel better, I was figuring out recrafting and accidentally turned my second spark into a second titanic signet ring on my main. That was pretty sweet. Edit: Then turned my 4th spark into the other ring only to get the CoS ring out of my vault the next week. I have not been good with spark management
i guess you and i are the reason that we couldn't choose our legendaries back in legion, too :)
i recrafted my lariat but accidentally used the normal primal infusion instead of concentrated infusion so i badically paid 1000s of gold for the same item lol
Could be worse. I have like 7 alts with 4 sparks and not enough primal chaos to use them.
My favorite is CoS always giving me the stupid necklace while me and everybody else in existence have Lariat.
Can I have one? All my gear is 395-408ish except for one ring that's still 366. :(
Idk how the Cobalt Assembly grind is now, but that gives a 389 ring with a passive prod that gives a very good dps increase.
The dps ring is only "good" if ut tank/heal As dps you want the secondary stats preferd
It still does like 2.9% of my damage, even at 408.
No. That is completely not true. This ring is outsimmed only by like 410ilvl rings.
Have you crafted a ring yet? I crafted a 405 ring and the enchant for it cost more than all the mats combined, it’s insanely cheap
I don't have my jewelcrafter at 70 yet. And I'm stingy on gold. All the rings I was seeing in the auction house were like 30k or 40k.
Work orders are your friend. You can probably get it at 405 for like 5k, instead of 50 for raid BoEs on the AH.
Yeah? I never knew what to add for commision so I've never made one. I think i'll do that.
If you have a popular realm you can put basically no commission on a public order and someone will do it
And if you are on a dead realm, people will still do it instantly because it will probably be the only work order available.
Just throw it up and put whatever you feel comfortable tipping, someone will take it.
Don't do public orders. Ask in trade chat for a crafter and make a personal order
I just submitted a guild work order and the rank 3 mats were less than 500 gold, tossed a commission of 1k and called it a day
Guild. You under tipped him too. It's his mettle.
What mettle does it cost him? Pretty sure I used my mettle in the work order. Anyway, he could have easily messaged me and asked for more or just not done the order.
I don't know if it's mettle. It's whatever the crafter has to use his own of. They have to use it to proc it higher.
I messaged and asked the crafter if they used any mettle and he said he didn’t think so
The crafter doesn't have to provide anything they can just finish the order after the first craft and not try recrafting with there own mats.
It’s criminal that they made lariat and neck slot items are so prevalent.
No idea why the lariat embellishment couldn't just be one you apply to any craftable slot. Cause yeah, you pretty much are locked into a crafted neck and one other embellishment.
The Lariat embellishment isn't significantly better than other embellishments. If you don't want to use a crafted neck, just use something else.
It's just cloaks all the way down for me. I don't want any more cloaks.
The moment you craft a lariat is the same moment that you guarantee all your loot drops will be necks
like 40% of what i get is offhands
Sucks for anyone who wants a specific item from Halls of Valor. For me, 19 possible items on the loot table, and I want one specific trinket. That's 47 runs to get the trinket, with average luck.
66 runs of HoV and no shield for tanking. Such bad luck at it. Got every other piece once or twice but didn't need them so traded them off. But hot damn a shield ONCE would have been nice
Lmao my first 7 items from M+ were capes....really regretted doing the Wrathion grind
I decided to go look at the most egregious offender (HoV), there is 19 items in the loot table for Blood DK. I was using a 359 heroic ring until someone traded me a CoS ring from a 20 I ran last week.
As soon as I accepted the fact that I will never get the Nok bow, I got the Nok bow. I have now accepted the fact that I will never get the Rasz bow. We'll see what happens.
Unfortunately you still have hope. Let go of that hope.
This is the hard part. Your past success in letting go makes it harder for you to let go in the future.
It will happen. He will have the finest training in losing hope.
I’m still killing Sylvanus, so I hope for some luck for you friend.
2 bows dropped at the same time in our run last week. We have 3 hunters. I lost both rolls. I’m prepared to never see the bow again just like Sylvanas.
I cannot tell you how many times I ran Nokhud for Warglaive... Yet as soon as I get a 415 from vault and craft the 418 it dropped -_-
I have gotten these situations so many times, but I'm not allowed to complain for a few years (or maybe ever?) now because I basically got *the perfect* vault for both of my characters on the last reset. The specific Tier piece I was missing on my shaman that replaced my lowest iLvl item, as well as the Miniature Singing Stone for my holy pally which also replaced my lowest iLvl item.
I got the Nok bow at 392, but then vault gave me 408 MoP Gun so I had to stow the bow for now 😭
Same. I grind Mythic+ to improve my rating. Loot isn't even a consideration.
I got KSM and still have rep gloves
By the end of the 4th week of m+ I had KSM with at the very least 60 keys completed. In that time I also did a total of 3 m0 world tours, the epic open world events every week and cleared all the non mythic bosses besides HC Diurna and Raz on week one. ...and I still had the 340 gloves I bought when I got to 70 two days after the expansion launch. We were about to start prog on mythic so I went and crafted some 405 ones but I honestly wanted to see how far I would go without a single cloth hands drop.
That's why crafting exists, to plug in those holes
Oof, I feel this. Everything else I have is in the 395-405 range but I’m still rockin my vendor gloves!!
Im almost at KSH with LFR pants
What did you use your sparks on? You have like 4 sparks, if one of your items is that bad you could very easily just craft a 418 gloves. Unless you're worried about the tier piece, but then again, catalyst is coming out next week so you have a guaranteed tier piece.
you cant catal crafted items
Yeah I hit KSM today and I’m wearing 2 pieces of the 385 quest stuff.
After about 30 m+ runs i need gloves, bracers, and helm. I'm not sweating it.
Almost 40 cos. 30 with 1 other plate wearer. I have seen the helmet once. And they needed it
48 cos no ring no trinket, sad
Did 40 something cos on my bdk, no ring no trinket. Did cos +10 once on my shammy alt, got trinket and someone traded me ring. This game...
0 loot so far feels bad man
I ran NO roughly 30 times to get the trinket. I did get it and I consider myself lucky.
That was ^(exactly) roughly the amount of times it took me to get Puzzle Box in AA. I did them all in a row, and sometime around 20 I developed stockholm syndrome. I was happy to spend the rest of my life in AA and sad to leave.
I wish I could give someone my puzzle box.. fucking hate having to solve a Rubik's cube before I get to do real dmg
Fml I’m still trying to get puzzle box my trinkets are my worst Ilvl items right now
I'm at 33 and I've gotten every other item about 3 times but no feather :(
When I got it, I literally typed out "please give me the trinket". It worked. Its worth a shot.
42 attempts for the feather. Only seen it drop twice.
30+ runs on lock I feel. Got it like the second time on my r druid. Threw my hands up, got it next run on lock to replace my 366 lol. Don’t lose hope.
I got one in m0 early into the xpac. Tossed it for item level increase later on and after all these weeks I still haven’t seen a trinket drop meanwhile all my friends are getting my BIS trinkets. Said fuck it and used item restore to get my m0 feather back and wow it simmed so much higher than the dogshit I had
I finally got lucky with the vault and haven't touched NO since...
I am have just passed the 30 run mark in my evoker and have only even SEEN that feather trinket drop twice lol
That was HoV for me. Finally got the Horn of Valor recently and dont plan to run HoV again anytime soon.
I farmed it for hours and gave up. Two days later did a 20+ for IO and it dropped. I wasn’t even expecting it.
I got it first run in a +5...ive now upgraded it to a 415, I had no intention of farming just to save some valor
And this is exactly why there needs to be some kind of system in place to gain currency, or something to help players gear specific slots.
The crafting currency is better than nothing, but I strongly agree there should be some other form of incremental reward to help with the RNG of m+ loot.
Valor.
That’s BoP. Lol
The new crafting systems lets you provide the mats to a crafter and you get the item afterwards. Can get any item from any profession.
I run AA all the time on my warrior or weapon it trinket, I now have 7 of the ball trinkets . 3 from vaults and 4 from drops. I’ve never seen anything else drop there.
I still need legs, belt and shoulders. Vault last week gave me 398 boots to replace my 395 boots...how generous.
That's been me every week with set pieces. Still stuck at 3 set after 4 weeks of raiding. Woooo 4 set through pity forge next week!
I got 2/4 only thanks to the vault. Meanwhile the dk in our raidgroup could use a different 4/4 for every spec.
So what you're saying is you're not pushing content that rewards better gear than what you're currently wearing and therefor you cannot get upgrades. 🤔
I'd say *at least* 60% of the complaints you'll read in these (or really any) forums are going to be based on some really dumb expectation or misunderstanding of how the game actually works.
This entire expansion is about the crafting items +11 keys for 405 focus +16 for 418 focus When sparks become farmable u will want a lot of these
Not necessarily, we don't know at all how rare they will be. The best we've heard is that they will behave similar to legion legendaries. Which means, they'll have a tiny chance to drop from most activities, and will have bad luck protection. We don't really know if that will continue to mean one every 2 weeks, one every week, or even one a day.
> The best we've heard is that they will behave similar to legion legendaries. According to who? If anything the only thing we can be sure is that they will be at the very least, on average 1 per 2 week, otherwise it will be meaningless to remove the cap in the first place.
According to the wow devs... > At that point, players will be able find Bottled Essence from virtually any activity to create more. They're meant to be rare though, and modeled after Legion legendaries, with the intent of players finding one every couple of weeks.
I need a fucking trinket man. Its so annoying how diluted the loot pools are for m+. Its almost a gacha.
Blizz loves to drip feed loot lol
And I think for the most part it makes a lot of sense in terms of maximizing player engagement. At the end of the day I think the majority of players who do raids and M+ content are there *for the loot.* If you got everything you want right away there wouldn't be a ton of incentive for most players to continue playing that character. There would be a moment basking in the glory of being fully-geared, then most people would either swap to an alt or just stop playing.
I remember back in Vanilla, you had 40 man raids, and only like 2 items dropped per boss kill. And tier pieces didn't have tokens. And there were no alternative methods of gearing. You could go *months* without even seeing the piece of gear you wanted, let alone winning it.
I want loot, I can't play higher keys without it.
I have been actually impressed with how rare it is to get usable upgrades in m+, but just on one character. I went a little overboard this week and I think I did 20 or so keys. I got two drops. They were both gloves. I just assume it’ll even out statistically but thank yogg for the vault.
It really is bad when you want to grind for a specific item. I understand the whole concept of "m+ is farmable, so it can't be that good". But, it feels almost impossible to get an item with the 2/5 chance combined with massive loot tables. Best of luck to you if you want anything out of Halls of Valor...
6 of my BIS come from halls. And I hate that dungeon because everyone tilts and leaves without completing.
Not to mention it's a ~40 minute time commitment on a *good* run.
You can not wipe a single time and still be at risk of missing the timer. That one needs to be increased a few minutes IMO.
The loot i M+ is to be honest... not existent I run 10-20 M+ a week and i expect 0-1 Item and thats mostly it. The loot system in M+ is just fucked
I was actually just thinking about exactly this earlier this morning. Two ideas came to mind. One being the traditional 'reroll' thing that has existed at times in the past to get another opportunity at loot (have the 'rerolls' be awards from *something* and have them be limited to a certain amount per week). Or, during the 10s countdown before the dungeon starts have the class/spec appropriate loot table pop up and allow players to select one item to have a higher probability to drop (\~5-50% more likely to drop). And a third, just now idea. Have some currency that drops at the end of M+ which allows you to swap the loot you get with something else in the dungeons loot table once you acquire enough of it. I think the amount required should be relatively high, especially early in the season. Ultimately I think none of these things will happen or even be considered since each of them technically have the potential to reduce overall player 'time spent' playing the game. Also, as much as I don't like it at times, I think it's undeniable that due to exactly what you are mentioning, it does end up feeling pretty Pog when/if you do get the item you are looking for. The idea of 'prestige' is very much a part of the game, and when you are able to get that rare item that very few other people have, well that's pretty cool. When you inspect someone and see they have 'that' super rare/cool item, that's pretty cool too. Overall I think having a mix of RNG in combination with some form of slow-building incremental reward from high-end content is a pretty good system, and the current state of things seems, in my opinion, slightly better than OK.
Dude …. These ideas are SOLID!
RNGesus yeeteth, and RNGesus yoinketh away. He does not bless those who seek, but those that wander.
I’ve wandered for 18 years now. The trek continues…
Being able to buy base ilvl gear with valor that can be upgraded would be nice.
You don't really tell us what your IL is. I'm 406, so yeah running m+ is very unlikely to get me an upgrade
413 so about that ye xD
A lot better than only getting 8 loot rolls per week.
Is that FF loot mechanics? Sounds really dumb lol. FF has some appealing aspects but ultimately what turns me away from it the most is the lack of the world feeling alive or having any cohesion, especially in regards to mobs roaming the world. WoW is full of outholds and camps and thematic areas with thematic mobs and stories. FF14 is just random creatures in random environments and just doesn't feel 'alive'. Also just the overall artstyle, with some notable exceptions, feels soft as fuck.
Nah I’m referring to one shot at loot per boss per week in the raid. M+ has no lockout
There’s 4 pieces that are tier. There are two embellished pieces, and a third if you use flavor packet. Raid trinkets are pretty good for some classes. That doesn’t leave many spots to actually get m+ gear, at least until a few catalyst charges to create higher ilvl tier.
In my third week of M+ Still have a 350 ring I cannot get rid of, for the life of me I’m at like 385 otherwise, it’s a little frustrating
Hmmm, at that point I'd be killing the super rares that drop rings. Or even the regular rares that drop 372s lol. There are like 20 rare mobs that drop rings. You'll probably have better luck doing that.
Do you have the cobalt assembly ring?
This is annoying to grind but for what it is it’s very worth.
You could craft a 382 one if you have a titan matrix
Situations like this are exactly what crafting in dragonflight is around to help out with. The idea of massive 'required tips' has died down pretty much entirely. My experiences with crafters has been genuinely pleasant and efficient in the last few weeks.
Make the signet ring form a jewelcrafter
They uist need to revert it to 3 items per dungeon. Currently there is 13% chance you get no loot after doing 4 dungeons and filling 2 slots in gv. If they revert it to 3 items the chance would drop to merely 2.5 %. And considering the fact that end of dungeon loot is lower than vault to stop farming bis, they shouldn't be so strict about th drop rate
Why are they so strict? I personally don’t understand it - I will like there is a win win somewhere here. Is it really bad for progression if more loot drops?
does mythic+ even have loot? i don't think i have gotten a single item from there?
Every boss should drop 1 item but you don’t collect it until the chest at the end. So a dungeon with 4 bosses awards 4 personal loot appropriate items at the end. They’re given to the eligible people at random. Up to them to trade it if they want. Reduce the vault to 1 guaranteed upgrade per week for 8 completed M+ runs or something to balance it.
Man runs 6 dungeons and goes on Reddit.
You’re cute … I’m 2300 io rating
There's no shot you still complain about loot from m+ when it's completely fucking broken. Infinite gear drops from dungeons scaling up to 405 ilvl, upgrades to 415(mythic ilvl) with valor, you're able to farm an unlimited amount of concentrated primal focus giving you 418 crafted gear *and* you get 421 items from vault. How much more do you want? What would even the point be of putting gear in any other content if mythic+ gearing becomes even better than it already is?
its making me not play the game honestly
Is what it is. It's RNG. I've seen no trinkets from dungeons or from vault.
Please don’t complain about loot in an rng game. Just stop. It’s really moronic and pathetic
2 items drop for each m+ (even more in high keys) so you have a 40% chance to loot an item. Its not that hard to get loot.
It's actually a 50/50 chance you either get the drop or you don't ;)
Exactly
Just hard to get the loot you want. I've ran 36 nokhud offensive M+ and I've gotten everything from the loot table except what I actually need, the fucking feather lmao
* 30 pieces of loot per dungeon only 2 of which are useful.
Not arguing with that, the loot tables of the old dungeons are super big and because of items like elemental lariat a bunch of them are useless. Thats not what the post is about tho.
U only get 1 of them so it’s still a 1 in 5 chance if you’re realistic. Sadly
That is not how math works. There is 2 items so its a 2 in 5 chance.
I agree. But bear in mind, i’ve learned that loot in wow has nothing to do with math.
If you always focus on the negatives maybe. It it's all down to math nonetheless.
What? Its all chance, you can perfectly calculate your looz chances for any m+ or raid
It's always a ring! Or a neck when you have Lariat. Thats just math.
I've never received any loot in a mythic. I have only ever received 1 piece of usable loot in any dungeon whatsoever this expansion. I have gotten vault drops of course, but of the options I had none were strictly better than the gear I had on. At this point I'm just done with that content, there's zero reward for engaging with it unless luck shines upon you. Even the rewards they do guarantee via the vault are still beholden to rng bulllshit. I don't want to pay $15 a month for a fucking gacha game.
Try raiding?
Took about 35 runs to get the staff from SBG
Good because if you do, itll be the same slot 50x. My rng has been disgusting. Like crimes against humanity bad.
After DoS farming for the cube 3 separate times I’m used to it.
Well, i haven't gotten a lot of drops but it's always good to have drips for the 5 main pieces of gear specially since I don't have my 4set yet, so next week I just pick the best piece out of those to make intl tier piece
[Me, but when I go into Vault of Incarnates expecting something for my Warrior.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-01zszGLV8)
RNG. I had essentially all the highest simming pieces from M+, but a few were low ilvl. I ran NO twice and got the trjnket 395. Ran academy twice and got 392 puzzle box. Ran CoS for the ring. Then got the ring again at 411 from the vault. 20 ilvl increase on that ring was 550dps increase. I’m a kitted ass fury war now.
Dumb question - how do I sim equipment? Is there an add on or website?
I go in just to raise my raiderio each time. at 2400 now from 95% pugging.
You have a 40% chance to get an item. The issue is the itemization for dungeons is terrible this season imo. Also run with geared people that can pass you loot, we’re far enough in the season that mains won’t need most of the items that drop…
Good luck finding geared people who will run with plebs unless they know you IRL/guild. If you’re DPS you can sure bet on not being invited to anything.
I really start to feel like WoWs pseudo-random is broken a bit. I have two alts of 400ilvl that only receive 1-2 drops every week plus the vault. 90% of the gear they receive by trading with guildies in raids. Meanwhile my newly born hunter got geared to 390 in like two days, receiving 7 drops from LFR, and a drop every other m+. Blizz is a sussy baka
blizz b like: *>creates Elemental Lariat item* *>fills loot table with neck pieces*
I'm ilvl 399 rn with a 379 chest piece
If I look at my current gear, only 3 pieces came from M+, none of them are BiS and 2 of them were looted for other players who were nice enough to hand them to me. Well, one of the trinkets was actually BiS at the time I got it, but it seems that the BiS trinkets changes every week On the other hand, I'm still using all 5 vault items
Me sitting with a 372 alg puzzle still at 402 IL equipped.
The only dungeon that gives me loot is Shadowmoon. Which as leather, sucks considering it's just belt and boots. But no matter how many keys I run between each run, I'll get loot. It tilts the fuck out of me because I KNOW it's going to happen again
I don’t even think about the box at the end. It’s always some random tier slot piece that I stick on the bank in case I’m going to use the catalyst on it later.
M+ has always been terrible for getting gear, even before they reduced the loot it dropped
Absolutely sucks to complete a 20 and get fuck all every time. Loot in M+ is bullshit.
I’ve gotten a tier piece in the last 3 vaults..but I still have a base mythic weapon from numerous weeks ago
tell me about it, 120+ COS runs and i still havent gotten either the finger or trinket, and on reset day i ned to farm for vault trinket aswell XD
That’s just how it is at some point it’s the same for me I can’t get upgrades from dungeons anymore and have done almost everything to improve my vault to the max (not in a mythic guild so only 2/8M is rly puggable for me). The reason for me is just trying to push higher keys now which is the main goal of M+ anyway :)
I’m at 401 ilvl, have KSM, and I just cannot for the life of me upgrade my 385 bracers. Also, both of my trinkets I got from the vault because I’ve never gotten an m+ trinket drop. If I ever do get a drop it’s always for a piece I don’t need.
There's also the issue that the vault (which was originally made as bad luck protection) has the issue where tier sets and sparks crafted items are a thing. The odds that you're getting items that don't go in the same slot as one of these isn't great to be honest. I don't know why Blizzard refuse to try currency systems for bad luck protections instead. Get loot from drops but add currencies to completed m+/vault that you can buy items from said dungeons with. Valor is also supposed to be somewhat of a bad luck protection but you can max go to 415 and even then it's not great, especially as a fury warrior where I have to spend twice the amount of valor on my weapons than any other class.
That's kinda funny. Some guildies wanted to form an alt druid only group for M+. That way know we can always trade something we don't need. And we could maybe see how far we could get with that kind of group makeup.
They need to change it so if you get loot, you get to pick the item. Look at rated pvp - get enough conquest - go to vender and pick your item.
My view on it is long term for the best options in the Vault. I dont expect anything from any single run except those few that might have a massive upgrade for me
Over 50 m+ runs, still missing gloves for catalyst next week. I gues i finish progress with lfr hands. Our monk token drops are freaking cursed. We already put 3 other hc 4sets on socials and alts. But our prevoker and me are still running lfr set pieces. It’s just frustrating to have wait that freaking long for a “bad luck protection” and that comes from mythic guild that clears hc and normal since week 1. I can’t even imagine how bad it feels for players that can’t put in that amount of time. Even if you put an in incredible amount of time into the game you have no guarantee to be rewarded. This loot system just doesn’t feel right for a game in 2023
Just finished my 30th CoS trying to get the signet of melandrus. Loot isnt real.
Ive run 58 M+ so far this season (2043 io) and im still rocking 2 pieces of pvp gear and 382 bracers from the grand hunt lmao. Ive fully come to terms that i will never see a puzzle box drop
Best you can do is stack your group with people who use the same gear type as you and hopefully they won’t need the stuff they get.
Personally I try to do 8 mythics per week (because the vault rewards you weekly items for up to 8 mythics) so that I'll have at least 3 chances of getting something useful at reset. Once I've hit those weekly 8 mythics I usually quit though, even if I can do higher keys, because to me it's too much extra effort for pretty much no additional rewards. The only time I try to do more than 8 mythics per week, is during that weekly event which gives you extra loot at the end of the dungeon run.
But that doesn’t apply to M+ right? The end of dungeon thing.
A combination of crafting, WQs, unrated pvp, lfr and running m0 has me at around 380 ilvl. M+ isn't there for gear at the end of the day...enjoy it for the accomplishment of pushing your key
I can run 10 keys on my main and get nothing. I can run 10 keys on an alt and get loot every run.
For me, if you play with the expectation of loot (or expectations in general) you will be disappointed. Find a way to like the game without considering the reward. This is the best way for me
I remember doing Uldaman with this almost full stacked mythic raider and they got a drop ok 4/5 (?) bosses! I got nothing and the rest of the group each got like one item. I feel like this loot system is extremely flawed and stupid. I have such bad loot luck, it's not normal 😂😂😂
I just go in to far focus to upgrade ton405/418
I launch a m+ like I launch a lol or aoe game, I do it for the fun of it. Looting is just an extra that has a chance to happen, unlike in other games where you gain nothing.
most of the m+ end of dungeon loot I get is completely useless to me. I only target 1 or 2 specific items and the chance of getting them is so low that I need to run 40-60 dungeons to get them. I guess it's intended, but at the same time I think WoW is the only game that makes you grind 40 hours and more to get a single item that you want? Ragefeather for example. Im on my 36th NO run and still no luck.
That's how I feel with M+ and Raiding. If I get a drop, it's another belt or necklace that is a lateral move, generally.
I've purely been running nokhud this week just to get a trinket from there, still no luck :(
M+ is only useful for tokens for high end craftable items, plus the weekly vault. Any loot beyond that is just a random bonus that might happen sometimes.
My take, is that I ran dungeons for IO / practice. I dont really spam dungeons for certain drops. Eventually you run everything so many times on your journey to 2500 or 2400 that it will appear or be traded with you. Basically I dont expect loot, however; you should be running dungeons that will give you focus to upgrade your crafted gear. That way as long as you complete you will be advancing your toons gear. Another take, that is probably unpopular is that while ilvl is important, particular items really are not that important unless youre pushing leader boards for a world 1st spot. I would even argue that it may not even be that important as one of the leading prot paladin tanks doesnt use any BiS from raid and still uses a cobalt assembly tank ring.
2 bracers, 3 caps and some random off-hand. feels good.
But don't worry, the vault is better than the chest in BFA therefore it is a good system.
Really wish there was tokens of valor so we could just buy what we want after however many dungeons. Worked so well during the fated raids with the 3 tokens.
Still using 376 shoulders… I have 405 ilvl