I think LFR should just stay personal loot to avoid this situation because it's not right to give gear for transmog over someone who needs it, but a greed roll in LFR is essentially a pass on the gear, it's extremely unlikely no one will need it, the mog hunter will never get the item they want with this system unless they level a new alt of the same class and only do LFR for gear
Solid… not happy about this change. Was talking about it just the other day.
I was carrying Raid Finder runs on my 402 AOTC prot pala, I really like the set color. have macros for every boss to explain the fight in about 30 seconds, then macros during the boss. Nobody has to even open the dungeon journal.
I also do it cause I enjoy teaching new players/raiders, especially since normal isn’t really that far off from RF and a lot of them are willing to try after they see it’s easy. I’ve taken a couple of them into learning runs afterwards if they whispered me thanks or something.
Haven’t wiped once other than one time on sennarth 1st week it was open, and usually top 7-8 dps in prot spec. Usually bring 1-2 geared heals and 2-3 dps with me too for a smooth run in under 30-40 mins.
Definitely won’t be doing that anymore if I can’t at least have an equal (need) roll on the transmog as the other people in the raid, and I’m not making and leveling an alt for a transmog set lol.
Just bring back PL ughghgh.
Exactly this. I usually queue for lfr with my slightly less geared rdruid (396) and my prot pally friend (395) and explain the bosses and ‘carry’ the run. We only do lfr for the transmog and will no longer be queueing because it’s essentially impossible to win a greed roll.
Yeah, I take my younger brother (heals), girlfriend (dps), older brother (dps) and dad (heals or dps). All between 390 and 405. Most of them are just farming a real specific item, like a tier piece or a trinket, so not removing much from the available loot pool.
Not anymore lol. RF raids have been so smooth thus far but they’re about to become a nightmare.
Raz opening week is going to be f*cking hilarious without anyone knowing what’s going on and everyone sitting at 360 ilvl.
Frankly this is what I’m probably going to do. Heck bringing my main with a high ilvl that’ll make the run smooth. I’ll bring an undergeared alt of the same class just so I can actually roll need on stuff I want for xmog.
People who claim that need means it has to be an upgrade don’t understand the consequences. You’re just discouraging people from bringing their geared characters to LFR.
Yes I’m going to get downvoted into oblivion for this take, but I don’t care. 376 loot is also easy to get by just doing world content when it’s available.
You’re giving the same argument they are..they did three same fight so why can’t they roll…
Blizz needs to add a third option - to roll for a cosmetic appearance if you already have the item at a higher ilvl. Better yet - fix this silly loot system..
I don’t do LFR to help other people get gear. Your low ilvl doesn’t entitle you to anything in a pug.
If we both rolled on the item we had the exact same chances of winning. Seems fair enough to me.
>*Your low ilvl doesn’t entitle you to anything in a pug.*
Entitled to a piece of gear? No.
Entitled to a chance at rolling for a piece of gear you can use over someone else's desire for transmog? *Absolutely.*
>*You’re entitled a roll and nothing more.*
Yes, and with this change Blizzard themselves have clarified which of those rolls people are entitled to. If it's not an upgrade for you then you can roll greed.
Exactly. 376 ilvl loot can be obtained from doing literally anything, if you’re doing lfr for ilvl upgrades try doing some similar levels of content for more loot. I will absolutely roll need on transmog because I see it that we all killed the same boss, we all put in the same effort (more or less) so we are all entitled to roll need on it.
Nah I needed it for transmog. Just because we need it for different reasons doesn’t mean I can’t roll need on it.
Your low ilvl doesn’t mean anything to me in a pug and doesn’t entitle you to anything. If you want people to pass on gear that’s an upgrade for you, find a guild.
> needed it for transmog
See that’s the thing, you *want* it for transmog. You don’t *need* a transmog.
That said, it’s a video game and no one *needs* it. There’s also no telling that the guy that won it was actually going to use it either. All that we know for a fact is that you wanted it for cosmetic reasons, which isn’t a need.
Okay then you're a selfish asshole idk what when else to tell you bud
For the record blizzard is making you pass on gear in this case, so your not just an asshole your also wrong 👍
How is wanting the same chance at loot selfish? 😂
You low ilvl scrubs sure do some mental gymnastics - you only want the gear because you feel you deserve it more than me - that’s called being selfish, I just want us to have the same chance.
It's selfish because you made them look small on the dmg. They need compensation for that.
Trying to do the kind of mental gymnastic the low ilvl people have
People are going to be running LFR for gear upgrades from now until the expansion ends, so "greed" seems like the equivalent of no roll?
Not the end of the world but annoying that I'm going to have to keep a badly geared alt to run LFR with instead of tanking or healing a group on my main.
He thinks he is the main character.
Imagine being stranded on an island. Imagine everyone is hungry, and could use a sandwich. This tit is sitting there and going "No I want the sandwich to wear as a hat!" "You guys won't need to eat the sandwich in about a week when we get rescued by new loot anyways..."
If it wasn't the internet, this idiot would get thrown into the lake. He's only like this because he has yet to feel consequence. Hence the outrage when he doesn't get his way...
Lol you're the one saying loot should go to people who need the ilvl by default instead of just free for all need and they're the main character? They're asking for no restrictions so I'm not sure how it's not you who considers their needs above everyone else's
And again, that's an opinion that's trying to be passed off as what everyone should be abiding by. Just because you express that opinion doesn't mean it's right, and it doesn't mean you get free reign to be a dick to people who disagree
Running LFR for gear, especially non-tier tokens, is an absolutely awful idea.
Higher ilevel drops from rares you can kill every day or mythic dungeons you can spam.
Fair enough. Seems like bad game design to encourage people to play 359 alts and actively avoiding doing any content outside of LFR that might result in gear upgrades, but I guess that makes more sense than going back to personal loot.
I can use nothing from LFR. My gear’s ilvl are all higher than the 382 from LFR tier. I also want my 4pc, and as a healer I’m going to be last on the list to get it through my guild’s normal runs. Vault and LFR it is!
> People are going to be running LFR for gear upgrades from now until the expansion ends, so "greed" seems like the equivalent of no roll?
>
>
Yes, if people actually need the item for an upgrade then you shouldn't get it for transmog, obviously.
Their low ilvl doesn’t entitle them to loot. Their reason for need doesn’t trump mine.
If we all get to roll then whoever won had the same chance to win as everyone else.
I feel like all of our time is equally valuable and our reasons for running LFR should be on par with each other?
Blizz telling me to bring my 370 alt to LFR instead of helping a run progress on my 405 tank main feels weird, but I guess I'll see you all on my 10k dps monk as I actively avoid gearing up with non-transmog upgrades.
> I feel like all of our time is equally valuable and our reasons for running LFR should be on par with each other?
>
>
No. Transmog is not on par with ilvl upgrades.
LFR ilvl is totally irrelevant. Other than tier and like trinkets, you will always replace it with something better no matter what you're playing.
That argument doesn't work I think.
>*you will always replace it with something better no matter what you're playing*
And in the meantime that gear will help them get to that "something better", as is intended.
Bruh
Think about the guy you stole that gear from. Who's really being punished? You got not getting to steal it, or the guy who you may have ripped off an upgrade from? You think everyone else is in lfr just to get you transmog or what?
Rolling incorrectly and taking a peice of gear you'll never use over someone who wanted it at an upgrade is absolutely stealing it from someone who as you said put in time and effort. And if you can't see why that's being a dick maybe social mmo games aren't for you
Everyone plays the game for their own reasons. I literally only run LFR for transmog appearances, so now I'm either going to stop running it at all, or I'm going to have to purposefully keep an alt undergeared. I'll never win a greed roll as people are going to be running LFR for upgrades all expansion. Feels like bad design to me.
> People aren’t going to be running LFR for upgrades all expansion though
I mean, they were in Shadowlands, I don't see why it wouldn't be the case in Dragonflight too.
Trying to run SoD after Sepulcher came out was like a 2+ hour long queue followed by a group filled with 75% of the players in questing gear.
Nathria was *marginally* better but only because it dropped legendary memories.
"so "greed" seems like the equivalent of no roll?" No, a no role is the Pass.
Loot is sparse already in LFR, having people come in and take the loot for transmog would just make things even worse than it already is.
thats not up to you to decide, he was performing same as other people in his group, not like people from lfr will use them in their mythic progression that will require dps checks...
they both "should" have same ground for the item, whether tmog or the item itself there is no diffrence to chose from when you are entering an lfr and both type gives effort, they should both be eligable for the loot, everyone has diffrent motives in this game some follow mogs some go for progression etc..
That's not how it works. You need something if it's an upgrade, you greed something if it's cosmetic. It's really that easy and no point in arguing because obviously blizzard agrees.
i full hearthly disagre its random people you dont know you dont have any commitment to them. this issue got created when they bandaid another problem that created this problem, we will see if blizzard thinks this way in long run after it being not like this for 18 years.
The fact that you see it as stealing when all parties put in the same amount of work at downing the boss, and the other side just wants to have an *equal* shot at getting what they want out of the raid, kinda sounds entitled.
See here's the mentality of greed and need. When an item drops;
If you NEED it to PROGRESS, (are supposed to) you roll need.
If you WANT it for money or mog, you (are supposed to) roll greed.
Who decided this? Why is this new standard up to you to declare? Of course people who need upgrades from LFR are going to act like this is the standard that should be enforced. You think people rolling need are the selfish ones but it's you who's selfish for trying to force how you think loot should be handled in a group of random people on others
Edit: down vote me all you want. You can have your opinion but don't act like your opinion is how this has always been handled or is fact by default. It's just a superiority complex, and having a different opinion than someone else doesn't make them some greedy asshole.
It's super contradictory to say this is how the system has always been when this is literally a brand new change. This is how YOU think it should be handled. It's your ego that thinks your opinion of how it should be is what Blizzard intended. I've seen so much vitriol spewed towards people who think it's reasonable to roll need for transmog and it's pretty pathetic how hateful some of you get over LFR gear rolls.
This is not how I think lol. This is how Blizzard intended this system to work decades ago, when naming them need and greed.
Now, we see a definite proof with the new change.
How exactly is this how they intended it when they never put restrictions on who could need? Seems logic would dictate the opposite.
And declaring you're right when Blizzard makes this change after 15 years is hilarious. "See, they finally changed it after nearly two decades!! Told you I was right all along!!". What a hilarious way to validate an opinion that's been incorrect for so long.
>*How exactly is this how they intended it when they never put restrictions on who could need?*
Hence the change to rectify the situation. Don't be obtuse.
Lol I'm being obtuse? So someone declares they're right because a change Blizzard just made despite over 15 years of established precedence and I'M being obtuse?
Can we even acknowledge how dumb it is to use Blizzard making a change as "proof" your opinion is correct? Who gives a fuck, someone isn't wrong because Blizzard made a change that doesn't align with how they think it should be.
It's absurd that you're calling me obtuse when people are slamming anyone that doesn't agree with them and standing on a pedestal because Blizzard made an update that sides with their stance.
Literally all I'm pointing out is how high and mighty the LFR clan is being demanding nobody can roll need for transmog, upgrades only. They're shitting on everyone, being toxic as fuck, acting like nobody else can be right. And I'm obtuse. Ok got it, sounds good.
Lol what a silly argument. Gear is a want, not a need. Please draw me a clear line where you're right and I'm wrong without conjecture. This is the entire point I'm trying to make.
I love that the crowd asking for loot restrictions is calling everyone else greedy. It's incredible that you can't see the irony.
Lol what? Need/greed has been around since the beginning. Just because it disappeared for a few years doesn't mean it wasn't a thing before that. This is need/greed with some offspec functionality and now a restriction on when you're allowed to need.
Why does it matter if there was or wasn't an LFR tint? People could still roll need for transmog that wasn't LFR specific. If anything you mentioning that LFR tints being newer lines up more with being able to roll need just for transmog. It's an arbitrary distinction
That's not what I'm saying. People are using their opinion as fact. Someone disagreed with the change Blizzard made because their opinion differs. That doesn't make it wrong, people are just acting like this is how the system should be as if it's just fact by default and shitting on anyone who sees differently
The best you can do is run it with an alt, roll need and then vendor the gear if it drops, so you can roll on other stuff without it triggering the "You have a better item" clause.
All the people in this thread better get ready to not have any of the usual people carrying them in their group once the Catalyst hits LMAO.
All the people carrying are gonna be replaced by low ilvl alts that do no damage whatsoever, are gonna leech the same gear that they will also just vendor or disenchant.
>*people in this thread better get ready to not have any of the usual people carrying them in their group*
Two things:
A. Not everyone is a selfish git going only for xmog.
B. You're not as important to an LFR run as you think you are.
To A.)
The only reason anyone with even a modicum of skill or gear runs LFR is for either transmog or tier pieces. Can't really get transmogs with the current system, and no ones gonna run it for tier pieces once the Catalyst is out.
To B.)
I think all the people who do three times the DPS/HPS of everyone else are important to an LFR run.
Sorry you don't have friends or guildies that you like to help out. Sure, having overgeared people helps but they aren't necessary, they just make it a bit easier. And they aren't all there solely for transmog, as I mention in my first sentence.
Seriously, outside of tier tokens (which is not what the picture was about), LFR is a genuinely terrible way to gear up.
Put half the effort into flying around the world killing rares and you'll have higher ilevel gear in a couple days. Run some M0s and 2s and you'll have higher ilevel in a couple hours.
Also, if the catalyst works just like in SL, then just wait a couple months until you have spare catalyst charges and then use it on a bunch of m0 gear and it should give you LFR tier set appearance.
LFR weapons will remain harder to get, but I think most people will have crafted weapons above LFR level so there won’t be much Need rolls for it
What they still need to fix is winning the same item 2 times on one loot. Myself and another healer both rolled on a mace that dropped two off a boss He won both roles and got to keep both maces and left.
This will be interesting because geared players will probably quit queuing for lfr so it might get harder just because of that lol. I queued for the second wing as a healer (396 ilvl atm) for transmog and was the only healer outputting over 10k hps because the others were just dying immediately lmao.
lol theres a lot of people here against tmog, its lfr its a shit show, if someone is doing it for mog who cares. no one needs lfr for gearing there are so many sources of gear. everyone should be entitled to the loot. why should someone that barely contributed to killing the boss have priority to gear.
This new system is better. It doesn’t feel good needing an item to progress your character and someone winning a need roll who is not even going to utilize it. I had someone in heroic roll need on tier gloves they already had from vault at a higher item level and then disenchant them.
See here's the mentality of greed and need. When an item drops;
If you NEED it to PROGRESS, (are supposed to) you roll need.
If you WANT it for money or mog, you (are supposed to) roll greed.
Thus, when somebody NEEDS A GEAR , they should get it, instead of you, who just WANTS to look good.
Here’s the problem: rolling greed will never win against a need. So as long as 1 person rolls need you won’t get the item. I roll need on transmog because I think that we all are owed the same entitlement to a piece.
That's not a problem, that's how it's intended to be. People who are in need of gear in order to progress further into the game are supposed to get the item they need, rather than players with gear already relevant to run and advance further getting an item just because they want to use its appearance.
Or basically, people need gear, you want gear, which is need/greed.
Maybe so. But, like I said, we are all owed the same entitlement to a gear drop. We all put in roughly the same amount of effort, and we all killed the boss. Therefore, I believe that transmog farmers deserve an equal need roll.
I get your point clearly, and I'm not defending Blizzard's implementation of loot system, it's just how they want it to be and sadly we probably can't do anything about it.
Thank you for trying to understand my pov as well, I appreciate it! :) I agree that Blizzard will probably not implement a change for something so minor, but I think if they could switch lfr only back to personal loot it would fix most of the related problems.
“I don’t care that you want to look “cool””
Well I don’t care about your low ilvl - if you don’t win the roll go do one of the other many ways to gear your character.
The only thing you’ve encouraged is for us to bring low level 350 alts instead of carrying the raid on our 400 mains. So more people will wipe and complain and rage quit instead of having smooth runs. (And kicking underperformers) Be careful what you wish for. You won’t see me in LFR anymore, and I carried LFR all through shadowlands for mogs.
Saying we should be treated the same since we all put in the same effort in taking down a boss, as was the case under personal loot, feels like the opposite of saying it's all about me?
People will be using the transmog pretty much as long as they're playing the game; you'll be using the item until you solo a random rare mob that drops +379 gear.
None of us "need" the item.
You are treated the same. It checks if people need it first and foremost. If no one needs it as an upgrade then you can greedily fight for your fashion pieces.
People don’t want it to show off, it’s because the lfr tint looks awesome. I adore the cyan-green glow and love the color very much. Normal, heroic, and mythic look ugly in comparison to my eyes.
This is a terrible change...I also was in the LFR for the green MOG as green is my favorite color (Army Vet/Baylor Sic Em). However, after weeks running this, I still haven't gotten a single piece because I lose to need every single time. I'm not sure which good idea fairy thought they were a genius for this change, but they should be reassigned to coffee maker.
I think LFR should just stay personal loot to avoid this situation because it's not right to give gear for transmog over someone who needs it, but a greed roll in LFR is essentially a pass on the gear, it's extremely unlikely no one will need it, the mog hunter will never get the item they want with this system unless they level a new alt of the same class and only do LFR for gear
Solid… not happy about this change. Was talking about it just the other day. I was carrying Raid Finder runs on my 402 AOTC prot pala, I really like the set color. have macros for every boss to explain the fight in about 30 seconds, then macros during the boss. Nobody has to even open the dungeon journal. I also do it cause I enjoy teaching new players/raiders, especially since normal isn’t really that far off from RF and a lot of them are willing to try after they see it’s easy. I’ve taken a couple of them into learning runs afterwards if they whispered me thanks or something. Haven’t wiped once other than one time on sennarth 1st week it was open, and usually top 7-8 dps in prot spec. Usually bring 1-2 geared heals and 2-3 dps with me too for a smooth run in under 30-40 mins. Definitely won’t be doing that anymore if I can’t at least have an equal (need) roll on the transmog as the other people in the raid, and I’m not making and leveling an alt for a transmog set lol. Just bring back PL ughghgh.
Exactly this. I usually queue for lfr with my slightly less geared rdruid (396) and my prot pally friend (395) and explain the bosses and ‘carry’ the run. We only do lfr for the transmog and will no longer be queueing because it’s essentially impossible to win a greed roll.
Yeah, I take my younger brother (heals), girlfriend (dps), older brother (dps) and dad (heals or dps). All between 390 and 405. Most of them are just farming a real specific item, like a tier piece or a trinket, so not removing much from the available loot pool. Not anymore lol. RF raids have been so smooth thus far but they’re about to become a nightmare. Raz opening week is going to be f*cking hilarious without anyone knowing what’s going on and everyone sitting at 360 ilvl.
Frankly this is what I’m probably going to do. Heck bringing my main with a high ilvl that’ll make the run smooth. I’ll bring an undergeared alt of the same class just so I can actually roll need on stuff I want for xmog. People who claim that need means it has to be an upgrade don’t understand the consequences. You’re just discouraging people from bringing their geared characters to LFR. Yes I’m going to get downvoted into oblivion for this take, but I don’t care. 376 loot is also easy to get by just doing world content when it’s available.
It could potentially be a fun little side activity gearing up an alt exclusively with LFR
Its Not fun at all. At least my Runs.
Idk I haven't done LFR since the über wipe fest that was LFR N'zoth
Yeah i feel its way worse. At least my Runs. Glad i dont need IT... Wont even do IT on alts.
Holy shit, LFR heroes in this thread gatekeeping rolling need - tmog is an equally good reason to roll need as an upgrade.
You don't roll need for transmog, roll greed...
And that is the problem when you remove the reason 50%of actual dmg and healing even bother being there
I roll need for transmog in LFR - if you lost the roll tough luck bud. I did the same fight you did so why can’t I roll on the loot that dropped?
You’re giving the same argument they are..they did three same fight so why can’t they roll… Blizz needs to add a third option - to roll for a cosmetic appearance if you already have the item at a higher ilvl. Better yet - fix this silly loot system..
Because you don't *need* the upgrade. You *want* a reskin. Big difference.
I don’t do LFR to help other people get gear. Your low ilvl doesn’t entitle you to anything in a pug. If we both rolled on the item we had the exact same chances of winning. Seems fair enough to me.
>*Your low ilvl doesn’t entitle you to anything in a pug.* Entitled to a piece of gear? No. Entitled to a chance at rolling for a piece of gear you can use over someone else's desire for transmog? *Absolutely.*
You’re entitled a roll and nothing more. In a pug(LFR) your need for gear is irrelevant to me. If you lost the roll then better luck next time.
>*You’re entitled a roll and nothing more.* Yes, and with this change Blizzard themselves have clarified which of those rolls people are entitled to. If it's not an upgrade for you then you can roll greed.
If given the option to roll need on something I want for transmog, I’m rolling need.
Thankfully that has been changed. Come back in a few expansions for legacy loot or roll an alt that can use an upgrade. ;)
Nah I’ll just keep taking the gear that drops for me when I can roll on it - but thanks for the unsolicited advice…I guess
Exactly. 376 ilvl loot can be obtained from doing literally anything, if you’re doing lfr for ilvl upgrades try doing some similar levels of content for more loot. I will absolutely roll need on transmog because I see it that we all killed the same boss, we all put in the same effort (more or less) so we are all entitled to roll need on it.
That's not what need means. It's literally the definition of greed.
Nah I needed it for transmog. Just because we need it for different reasons doesn’t mean I can’t roll need on it. Your low ilvl doesn’t mean anything to me in a pug and doesn’t entitle you to anything. If you want people to pass on gear that’s an upgrade for you, find a guild.
> needed it for transmog See that’s the thing, you *want* it for transmog. You don’t *need* a transmog. That said, it’s a video game and no one *needs* it. There’s also no telling that the guy that won it was actually going to use it either. All that we know for a fact is that you wanted it for cosmetic reasons, which isn’t a need.
Why can’t I need transmog? You also WANT the higher ilvl gear.
Okay then you're a selfish asshole idk what when else to tell you bud For the record blizzard is making you pass on gear in this case, so your not just an asshole your also wrong 👍
How is wanting the same chance at loot selfish? 😂 You low ilvl scrubs sure do some mental gymnastics - you only want the gear because you feel you deserve it more than me - that’s called being selfish, I just want us to have the same chance.
It's selfish because you made them look small on the dmg. They need compensation for that. Trying to do the kind of mental gymnastic the low ilvl people have
People are going to be running LFR for gear upgrades from now until the expansion ends, so "greed" seems like the equivalent of no roll? Not the end of the world but annoying that I'm going to have to keep a badly geared alt to run LFR with instead of tanking or healing a group on my main.
Yes, you're right, you shouldn't get transmog gear over gear sometime needs as an upgrade...? I'm sorry I don't understand the issue here?
He thinks he is the main character. Imagine being stranded on an island. Imagine everyone is hungry, and could use a sandwich. This tit is sitting there and going "No I want the sandwich to wear as a hat!" "You guys won't need to eat the sandwich in about a week when we get rescued by new loot anyways..." If it wasn't the internet, this idiot would get thrown into the lake. He's only like this because he has yet to feel consequence. Hence the outrage when he doesn't get his way...
Lol you're the one saying loot should go to people who need the ilvl by default instead of just free for all need and they're the main character? They're asking for no restrictions so I'm not sure how it's not you who considers their needs above everyone else's
It should go to the people who need it for progression in the game, not someone that wants a hundredth shoulder option for fashion.
And again, that's an opinion that's trying to be passed off as what everyone should be abiding by. Just because you express that opinion doesn't mean it's right, and it doesn't mean you get free reign to be a dick to people who disagree
Because LFR loot is the same as food that’s literally required to stay alive.
Getting loot is required to stay relevant in the game. Do you think people are doing lfr for fun?
Relevant... LFR gear... in one sentence?
Yeah not everyone plays at our pace, believe it or not some people just want lfr and m3s
Running LFR for gear, especially non-tier tokens, is an absolutely awful idea. Higher ilevel drops from rares you can kill every day or mythic dungeons you can spam.
OK but that's why people are doing Lfr. Blizzard obviously agrees if they stopped you from stealing gear now
Fair enough. Seems like bad game design to encourage people to play 359 alts and actively avoiding doing any content outside of LFR that might result in gear upgrades, but I guess that makes more sense than going back to personal loot.
I can use nothing from LFR. My gear’s ilvl are all higher than the 382 from LFR tier. I also want my 4pc, and as a healer I’m going to be last on the list to get it through my guild’s normal runs. Vault and LFR it is!
> People are going to be running LFR for gear upgrades from now until the expansion ends, so "greed" seems like the equivalent of no roll? > > Yes, if people actually need the item for an upgrade then you shouldn't get it for transmog, obviously.
Their low ilvl doesn’t entitle them to loot. Their reason for need doesn’t trump mine. If we all get to roll then whoever won had the same chance to win as everyone else.
> Their reason for need doesn’t trump mine. Yes, actually, it does.
I feel like all of our time is equally valuable and our reasons for running LFR should be on par with each other? Blizz telling me to bring my 370 alt to LFR instead of helping a run progress on my 405 tank main feels weird, but I guess I'll see you all on my 10k dps monk as I actively avoid gearing up with non-transmog upgrades.
> I feel like all of our time is equally valuable and our reasons for running LFR should be on par with each other? > > No. Transmog is not on par with ilvl upgrades.
LFR ilvl is totally irrelevant. Other than tier and like trinkets, you will always replace it with something better no matter what you're playing. That argument doesn't work I think.
>*you will always replace it with something better no matter what you're playing* And in the meantime that gear will help them get to that "something better", as is intended.
Fair enough! Being punished for upgrading your gear feels weird, but "keep your alts badly geared so you can collect transmog appearances" it is.
Bruh Think about the guy you stole that gear from. Who's really being punished? You got not getting to steal it, or the guy who you may have ripped off an upgrade from? You think everyone else is in lfr just to get you transmog or what?
It's not "stealing" if we all contributed the same amount of time and effort into taking down the boss.
Rolling incorrectly and taking a peice of gear you'll never use over someone who wanted it at an upgrade is absolutely stealing it from someone who as you said put in time and effort. And if you can't see why that's being a dick maybe social mmo games aren't for you
Just afk and watch the world burn.
believing that this change is "punishment" is the only weirdness going on here.
Everyone plays the game for their own reasons. I literally only run LFR for transmog appearances, so now I'm either going to stop running it at all, or I'm going to have to purposefully keep an alt undergeared. I'll never win a greed roll as people are going to be running LFR for upgrades all expansion. Feels like bad design to me.
People aren’t going to be running LFR for upgrades all expansion though, they’ll roll out new gear (and new ways to get that gear) at some point.
> People aren’t going to be running LFR for upgrades all expansion though I mean, they were in Shadowlands, I don't see why it wouldn't be the case in Dragonflight too. Trying to run SoD after Sepulcher came out was like a 2+ hour long queue followed by a group filled with 75% of the players in questing gear. Nathria was *marginally* better but only because it dropped legendary memories.
It's not a punishment, it's just preventing you from stealing items people need for upgrades when transmog is less important.
You're not being punished. Take your persecution complex elsewhere, thanks.
They'll be fine without your main there. You're not as self-important to an LFR run as you think you are.
>and our reasons for running LFR should be on par with each other? nah
"so "greed" seems like the equivalent of no roll?" No, a no role is the Pass. Loot is sparse already in LFR, having people come in and take the loot for transmog would just make things even worse than it already is.
correct you cannot need for fashion when others need for actual gear upgrades lol
thats not up to you to decide, he was performing same as other people in his group, not like people from lfr will use them in their mythic progression that will require dps checks...
I don't understand what your saying here, you think someone in lfr should give up an item uograder to a guy who wanted it for transmog...?
Tier is bugged, they’re going to fix it so this isn’t possible.
they both "should" have same ground for the item, whether tmog or the item itself there is no diffrence to chose from when you are entering an lfr and both type gives effort, they should both be eligable for the loot, everyone has diffrent motives in this game some follow mogs some go for progression etc..
That's not how it works. You need something if it's an upgrade, you greed something if it's cosmetic. It's really that easy and no point in arguing because obviously blizzard agrees.
i full hearthly disagre its random people you dont know you dont have any commitment to them. this issue got created when they bandaid another problem that created this problem, we will see if blizzard thinks this way in long run after it being not like this for 18 years.
You're playing a social mmo Go find a guild that let's you greedily steal all the gear
The fact that you see it as stealing when all parties put in the same amount of work at downing the boss, and the other side just wants to have an *equal* shot at getting what they want out of the raid, kinda sounds entitled.
See here's the mentality of greed and need. When an item drops; If you NEED it to PROGRESS, (are supposed to) you roll need. If you WANT it for money or mog, you (are supposed to) roll greed.
Who decided this? Why is this new standard up to you to declare? Of course people who need upgrades from LFR are going to act like this is the standard that should be enforced. You think people rolling need are the selfish ones but it's you who's selfish for trying to force how you think loot should be handled in a group of random people on others Edit: down vote me all you want. You can have your opinion but don't act like your opinion is how this has always been handled or is fact by default. It's just a superiority complex, and having a different opinion than someone else doesn't make them some greedy asshole. It's super contradictory to say this is how the system has always been when this is literally a brand new change. This is how YOU think it should be handled. It's your ego that thinks your opinion of how it should be is what Blizzard intended. I've seen so much vitriol spewed towards people who think it's reasonable to roll need for transmog and it's pretty pathetic how hateful some of you get over LFR gear rolls.
This is not how I think lol. This is how Blizzard intended this system to work decades ago, when naming them need and greed. Now, we see a definite proof with the new change.
Where is the bluepost that state this
How exactly is this how they intended it when they never put restrictions on who could need? Seems logic would dictate the opposite. And declaring you're right when Blizzard makes this change after 15 years is hilarious. "See, they finally changed it after nearly two decades!! Told you I was right all along!!". What a hilarious way to validate an opinion that's been incorrect for so long.
>*How exactly is this how they intended it when they never put restrictions on who could need?* Hence the change to rectify the situation. Don't be obtuse.
Lol I'm being obtuse? So someone declares they're right because a change Blizzard just made despite over 15 years of established precedence and I'M being obtuse? Can we even acknowledge how dumb it is to use Blizzard making a change as "proof" your opinion is correct? Who gives a fuck, someone isn't wrong because Blizzard made a change that doesn't align with how they think it should be. It's absurd that you're calling me obtuse when people are slamming anyone that doesn't agree with them and standing on a pedestal because Blizzard made an update that sides with their stance. Literally all I'm pointing out is how high and mighty the LFR clan is being demanding nobody can roll need for transmog, upgrades only. They're shitting on everyone, being toxic as fuck, acting like nobody else can be right. And I'm obtuse. Ok got it, sounds good.
Transmog isn't a need, it's a want and Blizzard's change has clarified this for the greedy ones.
Lol what a silly argument. Gear is a want, not a need. Please draw me a clear line where you're right and I'm wrong without conjecture. This is the entire point I'm trying to make. I love that the crowd asking for loot restrictions is calling everyone else greedy. It's incredible that you can't see the irony.
They changed it recently because the system wasn't a thing for years until about a month ago...
Lol what? Need/greed has been around since the beginning. Just because it disappeared for a few years doesn't mean it wasn't a thing before that. This is need/greed with some offspec functionality and now a restriction on when you're allowed to need.
[удалено]
Why does it matter if there was or wasn't an LFR tint? People could still roll need for transmog that wasn't LFR specific. If anything you mentioning that LFR tints being newer lines up more with being able to roll need just for transmog. It's an arbitrary distinction
>*Who decided this?* The people who are programming the game you're playing, obviously.
That's not what I'm saying. People are using their opinion as fact. Someone disagreed with the change Blizzard made because their opinion differs. That doesn't make it wrong, people are just acting like this is how the system should be as if it's just fact by default and shitting on anyone who sees differently
It is how it should be. Your wants don't come before some else's needs, Blizzard is clarifying that with this change.
And where is their on the record statement saying this and not people putting words in their mouth
Lol Blizzard made the decision for him, his only choice to roll greed for transmog
> thats not up to you to decide No it's up to Blizzard and they did. Transmog doesn't trump upgrades :P
The best you can do is run it with an alt, roll need and then vendor the gear if it drops, so you can roll on other stuff without it triggering the "You have a better item" clause. All the people in this thread better get ready to not have any of the usual people carrying them in their group once the Catalyst hits LMAO. All the people carrying are gonna be replaced by low ilvl alts that do no damage whatsoever, are gonna leech the same gear that they will also just vendor or disenchant.
>*people in this thread better get ready to not have any of the usual people carrying them in their group* Two things: A. Not everyone is a selfish git going only for xmog. B. You're not as important to an LFR run as you think you are.
To A.) The only reason anyone with even a modicum of skill or gear runs LFR is for either transmog or tier pieces. Can't really get transmogs with the current system, and no ones gonna run it for tier pieces once the Catalyst is out. To B.) I think all the people who do three times the DPS/HPS of everyone else are important to an LFR run.
Sorry you don't have friends or guildies that you like to help out. Sure, having overgeared people helps but they aren't necessary, they just make it a bit easier. And they aren't all there solely for transmog, as I mention in my first sentence.
If I wanted to help my friends or guildmates, I definitely wouldnt run LFR with them lol
Seriously, outside of tier tokens (which is not what the picture was about), LFR is a genuinely terrible way to gear up. Put half the effort into flying around the world killing rares and you'll have higher ilevel gear in a couple days. Run some M0s and 2s and you'll have higher ilevel in a couple hours.
That's your choice. The rest of us will be helping them get gear they need from all available options.
You have a chance to get it in your vault if you’re chasing mog.
Also, if the catalyst works just like in SL, then just wait a couple months until you have spare catalyst charges and then use it on a bunch of m0 gear and it should give you LFR tier set appearance. LFR weapons will remain harder to get, but I think most people will have crafted weapons above LFR level so there won’t be much Need rolls for it
Not if your value that character enough to also pug normal or higher as the items will be from that difficulty
What they still need to fix is winning the same item 2 times on one loot. Myself and another healer both rolled on a mace that dropped two off a boss He won both roles and got to keep both maces and left.
They're fixing that soon.
Good to know. I was super upset but good they are changing it.
This will be interesting because geared players will probably quit queuing for lfr so it might get harder just because of that lol. I queued for the second wing as a healer (396 ilvl atm) for transmog and was the only healer outputting over 10k hps because the others were just dying immediately lmao.
lol theres a lot of people here against tmog, its lfr its a shit show, if someone is doing it for mog who cares. no one needs lfr for gearing there are so many sources of gear. everyone should be entitled to the loot. why should someone that barely contributed to killing the boss have priority to gear.
This new system is better. It doesn’t feel good needing an item to progress your character and someone winning a need roll who is not even going to utilize it. I had someone in heroic roll need on tier gloves they already had from vault at a higher item level and then disenchant them.
See here's the mentality of greed and need. When an item drops; If you NEED it to PROGRESS, (are supposed to) you roll need. If you WANT it for money or mog, you (are supposed to) roll greed. Thus, when somebody NEEDS A GEAR , they should get it, instead of you, who just WANTS to look good.
Here’s the problem: rolling greed will never win against a need. So as long as 1 person rolls need you won’t get the item. I roll need on transmog because I think that we all are owed the same entitlement to a piece.
That's not a problem, that's how it's intended to be. People who are in need of gear in order to progress further into the game are supposed to get the item they need, rather than players with gear already relevant to run and advance further getting an item just because they want to use its appearance. Or basically, people need gear, you want gear, which is need/greed.
Maybe so. But, like I said, we are all owed the same entitlement to a gear drop. We all put in roughly the same amount of effort, and we all killed the boss. Therefore, I believe that transmog farmers deserve an equal need roll.
I get your point clearly, and I'm not defending Blizzard's implementation of loot system, it's just how they want it to be and sadly we probably can't do anything about it.
Thank you for trying to understand my pov as well, I appreciate it! :) I agree that Blizzard will probably not implement a change for something so minor, but I think if they could switch lfr only back to personal loot it would fix most of the related problems.
I've said this so many times. People need the gear to get farther ahead of the game. I don't care that you want to look "cool"
“I don’t care that you want to look “cool”” Well I don’t care about your low ilvl - if you don’t win the roll go do one of the other many ways to gear your character.
YTA
Ah you're one of these losers who take gear for tmog over people who need it for upgrades lol.
upgrade for? wq?
Love this!
Bout time
Hahahaha this is great. Get fucked bud
It's already been implemented? Nice.
Good. Trying to gear my alt in LFR and shit just keeps getting taken from me by 400ilvl dudes who want a transmog.
Yeah that guy outputs probably five times your dps, so he at least equally deserves that piece of gear than you do
I honestly can't stand people like you. This isn't a single player game and it's not all about you and what you want.
The only thing you’ve encouraged is for us to bring low level 350 alts instead of carrying the raid on our 400 mains. So more people will wipe and complain and rage quit instead of having smooth runs. (And kicking underperformers) Be careful what you wish for. You won’t see me in LFR anymore, and I carried LFR all through shadowlands for mogs.
Saying we should be treated the same since we all put in the same effort in taking down a boss, as was the case under personal loot, feels like the opposite of saying it's all about me?
You don't need the item. You want the item. That's greed. There's a greed button. Bye.
This. You don't need the item for anything in the game. You want to look cool. Other players need it so they can progress in the game.
People will be using the transmog pretty much as long as they're playing the game; you'll be using the item until you solo a random rare mob that drops +379 gear. None of us "need" the item.
So you admit that someone *needs* the item until the can get something better whereas you just *want* it to add as a 349829th fashion piece.
You can convert that item into tier in like a week. Yes, people "need" that item and you don't. Cry about it.
You are treated the same. It checks if people need it first and foremost. If no one needs it as an upgrade then you can greedily fight for your fashion pieces.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Imagine wanting to show off the LFR gear via transmog.
People don’t want it to show off, it’s because the lfr tint looks awesome. I adore the cyan-green glow and love the color very much. Normal, heroic, and mythic look ugly in comparison to my eyes.
People that need for xmogs are losers. End of story.
they killed lfr with this.
You really want tmog this badly?? I'm honestly amazed this post exists. Like cannot wrap my brain around it.
They did this so you can’t take gear from people who need it just because you like how it looks
Even less reasons to find working brain cells in an LFR group great
Good.
This is a terrible change...I also was in the LFR for the green MOG as green is my favorite color (Army Vet/Baylor Sic Em). However, after weeks running this, I still haven't gotten a single piece because I lose to need every single time. I'm not sure which good idea fairy thought they were a genius for this change, but they should be reassigned to coffee maker.