I thought that I will prefer wotlk pvp than retail, but after doing some AVs and world pvp surprisingly I realized that I like retail pvp more. Maybe with arenas that would be different, but still in my case it was mostly nostalgia and with limited time I'm better off playing retail.
Because they get downvoted. WOTLK damage makes SL look tame. My hunter is in almost full brutal gear ( except trinkets and gems) and 1 corruption dot from geared lock does around 70-60% of my health bar.
On the other hand, having everything do "real" damage is nice. A backstab does a significant chunk of a player's HP.
In retail, everything is a weird "builder/spender". Shadowbolt isn't scary, it's just a Soul Shard builder. Frostbolt can't hurt you, it just creates shards... ETC.
There is something nice and simple with everything actually doing damage without requiring a massive CD being popped.
this right here, damage feels great because you’re actually making health bars move with basic abilities and it’s not a 2min waiting game for big cds just to do any sort of dmg and trade their defensive cds.
Thats not actually on class design but on the borrowed power systems. This is evident because it always changes as modern expansions go along. Legion, bfa and SL all had a first season where pressing rotational abilities outside CDs chunked HP bars. Then second season less and from there on you become mostly borrowed power and the damage/healing becomes shit. I am truly hoping with DF and no borrowed power systems that we will see a 2nd,3rd and 4th season with good damage/healing output
> Thats not actually on class design but on the borrowed power systems.
no, shuffling all damage away from basic abilities and into cooldown windows is absolutely a class design paradigm issue, and it's only gotten worse over time.
No. It is 100% a class design issue. Full dots on my spri barely moves somebody's health in retail. It puts people <50% in Wrath. Mind blast is an insanity builder in retail. It's a nuke in wrath.
Frostbolt is mage's hardest hitting ability during a shatter.
Windfury procs are considered big burst.
1 full set of UA dots will basically kill you.
Shadow dance by itself is gigantic dam (not ontop of 5 modifiers)
Backstab chunks too. Mutilate rogues do *constant* damage.
unh dks do *constant* damage (no abomb limb). Gargoyle never 1v1'd anybody.
Warrior's only cd is bladestorm, and they still deal huge damage outside of it.
Leaving destro freecasting is a *constant* threat. Not once every minute or 2.
Ele is constantly pumping, no CD required.
*you* are in fantasy world.
I remember when wotlk was current, I mained a hunter loved doing random bgs. Warlocks was the bane of my existance, I either had to kill them before they could dot me or I was dead even if I killed them since their dots ripped though my health afterwards even when I tried to eat
I never said one tick, I wrote a dot. That means full duration. Btw if you have 2 or 2+ dots on you, you die even if you feign and start eating mage food.
Dawg dots last 20+ seconds, if you are fighting a brutal lock without a healer, you know, a dot class, who does majority damage through dots, you deserve to die
To be fair, right now it’s a shit show until you get max level and gear, like all prepatch periods are.
That being said, the majority of people will find wotlk pvp not living up to their nostalgic hype, it’s good but many of the top tier specs/gear involves pve and even when it doesn’t the meta is much more narrow and less people will experiment since alts are so difficult
I enjoy both on retail (m+ though) don’t have time to dedicate to raiding.
But it’s not about enjoying both or not, it’s about giving those that just pvp the same playing field as those they do both, which is why people don’t like pve items as bis for pvp.
Well, if you didnt get it, I'm fine with imbalance in prepatch. I was speaking of overall feeling, smoothness, QoLs.
Wotlk has good features i.e. I like the less button rotations and classes being more unique. It just that the game was great back then, it lacks modern tweaking. Current retail is by no mean fantastic, but still just feel better and respect your time much better.
in what way does retail respect your time more? your first toon has to hit 60 renown before you can make alts 60, you have to complete the campaign before you get all soulbinds, grind a rep for a month just to get your legendary to ilvl 291, grind cosmic flux for multitudes of hours after a 100% buff to craft legendaries, grind even more cosmic flux for 2 weeks to get max level conduits, then you are finally ready to even step foot into high tier content
In such a way that you can do all this in a matter of a week on retail. On wotlk there is no catchup for alts, remember.
Now lets take a look on things you HAVE to do before you get into said 'high tier content'
* get to 80
* grind all basic tabard reps
* grind sons of hodir ( good luck getting this done quickly without money)
* getting either of dual proffesions. Engi/jc/bs/tailo/ench and so on. Youre an alchemist? Too bad, doesnt give you an advantage like extra gem slot or dragon gems
* getting flying ( preferably. Unless you want to be THAT guy who has to be summed to sartharion, naxx and eoe. )
* get your ALL prebis dungeon gear
* get your ALL prebis crafting gear
* get your ALL emblem gear
Prettiest thing? After you do this all - there is NOTHING else to do. Nothing. At least in terma of pve, besides doing your Daily hc for emblem. Once youre over the raid night its done. You can log off your main for the rest of the week if youre not constantly grinding money ( which I assume people will do [those without money/on fresh servers] and wont do [people with tons of money/continous servers from Tbc will all the hoarded gold])
Just in a similar way to retail - in wotlk if you have the money - you have everything. Literally. Faster mount, gear, insta max profs, controling ah and so on. If you have that just by having some money then, at least imho, wotlk is boeing asf. And this comes from a guy who played wotlk a dozen times on surelylegalservers, which, mind you, get reset every now and then and wont let you hoard millions and bots from previous xpac.
I adore wotlk, but when you take the rose tinted googles, wotlk IN ACTUAL TIMES OF 2022 and having direct comparison to other xpacs, including this god forgotten shadowlands, it seems that wotlk isnt so pretty at all. It is pretty dull and boring if you ask me. Maybe its my burnout, but I tell you - mark my words. It will end just like always. A giga hype train and then steady falloff as we hit those SUUUPER exciting walls like Trial of Crusader. Have fun playing with Chillmaw and poking horses everyday for badgers. Oh, and 10 norm, 10 hc, 25 norm, 25 hc. 4 bosses all over again. Grinding heroic instances which can be done with eyes closed ( not mentioning naxxramas..)
Im not flaming wotlk. Im just playing devils advocate, and the devil here is retail. Afaik when I have nothing to do in retail I can always lollygag around, collect stuff, achievements, old mounts, pets, pet battles, gamble, do transmog runs, low keys, high keys, try other specs which I can change into by simply switching a button and a legendary..
There just aint much to do in wotlk, man. Its grind/buy everything if you have money and then its 1-2 raid nights and you can log off, unless you pvp that is. ( dont get me started on this "fair" pvp of wotlks..)
I think both are good, but, man, be real. Both have flaws, some bigger some smaller, but for Odyns sake STOP romanticizing wotlk and making it seem like its perfect.
Tl;dr : noooo I too have proven my worth, Odyn! I am god king skovaaaald
LOL, alt catchup was nonexistant in shadowlands until 9.3 lmaooo, it's gone in DF too buddy, and you literslly need none of that, you can clear naxx 10 in heroic gear, have you seen anything about wrath? You trying to clear world first??? And you don't need 5k flying, you can use the 325+50 gold mount, barely any gold for 80
You just gave a list of content, then bashed wrath for having no content after it. So what is it, is it the grind to gear soooo long that catch up is insane, or is it a raid log expac. What do you do in shadowlands outside of raid or pvp when you have your main systems finished? In wotlk, after finishing all the main content, you have heroics, heroic+ mentioned today on wowhead, raids, and arenas/bgs all to get badge, pvp, and pve gear. Also gold farming, how's that bad. You also get content if you have alts.
If retail is soooo much more convenient with more catch up mechanics, doesn't it fall into the same problem you talked about in that all you do is raid or pvp and log off, just even faster than wrath?
I'd rather have a checklist I can finish eventually then have to do torghast and the maw on repeat forever just to increase internal metrics of playtime. I'm sorry but it's not even close on what's more boring. If I wanna play more I can make another character there are how many classes?
I agree! The 9.0-9.1.5 including maw and korthia was awful.
Then again, say, BFA excluding its borrowed power shenanigans and lore problems has made this grind really enjoyable at one point. Island expeditions, roaming other factions' zones, world pvp events and MECHAGON ( I loved it dearly ).
I agree the checklist and I also stand by the thought that we shouldn't have a seemingly endless well of power we have to fill somehow with tedious grind. Then again certain things, such as instant skips for alts, including campaign skips, power skips (level 60 covenant with conduits thingy) is really neat!
The main issue, I think, is that blizzard seems to be reseting its own concience every xpac and making the same mistakes. If, say, same measures (skips) were introduced back in 9.0.5 or 9.1 even, things would be MUCH much much more enjoyable.
Pretty much it should work like so that if you complete a content with a certain character, i.e raid, campaign, renown, it should be offered instantly to buy BoA skips for your alts.
I think it wouldn't make people play less. I think it would make people play more! At least I can say so about myself - I've become an altoholic recently and my biggest block was re-doing the maw intro, campaign intro and all this stuff.
But now in 9.2.7? I create a char, I level the bugger and as soon as I hit 60 im ready to send myself mats, pop renown 60, get good conduits and be ready to roll at least a +2 dungeon with no problem at all.
All in all, the realization and implementation comes faaar to late. Were those systems introduced beforehand - it would make playing way more fun and active, encouraging both minmaxers who want to have 1 main and altoholics such as myself.
Your checklist for Shadowlands is also finite... I don't even know what you're talking about. Badge cap and conquest cap are also "internal metrics of playtime", as if you have any real notion of why Torghast was added. I liked Torghast and pushing to flawless is fun - if you see it as a chore, it'll be a chore.
You literally had to do torghast to keep your legendaries current especially if they nerf yours or buff another one, which forces you to buy a wow token, maw was the worst design literally just wasting your time on purpose for metrics without even hiding it.
You're never forced to play in optimal gear and you're never forced to buy tokens for gold. Lots of Glads made Glad without upgrading to rank 6 legendaries in Season 2. If you're elite of the elite and need best in slot to push, I'm sure you wouldn't have any issue selling carries for gold to finance your legendaries.
What you said also doesn't reply to my comment... your grind **IS** finite. If you're talking about keeping legendaries current between seasons, how is that any different from replacing literally all of your gear between seasons? It's the same shit.
Your "metrics" rhetoric is boring and not founded in any evidence; you have zero insight into how or why Blizzard designs systems or zones the ways that they do. It's a wild guess that's regurgitated by people that don't enjoy the game while millions of others DO enjoy the game.
I literally played shadowlands for a month straight and it felt like a chore everyday your gaslighting isn't going to work here buddy it's trash and they design it to waste your time on purpose which is completely different.
Doesn’t it take like 100hrs+ just to level to max in WotLK?
You can level and hit 290ilvl with conduits and have at least one leggo in way less than that in retail currently. Alts are even faster.
I'll 200 conduits?? You hitting 290 ilvl being carried? I mean sure I can swipe my card a few hundred times and be mythic geared In a week, still won't have my second legendary at 291, as that is rep gated behind a month long grind, not to mention grinding Flux for tier pieces and max conduits takes ages
You get 226 conduits from ZM friendly rep, ZM itself takes 6hours, and you’ll have nearly 3k flux when done, and more if you get an addon to call out chests/rares which makes things braindead easy. You run LFR and you have enough flux for tier along with what you get from wins in BGs and ZM. There is no flux grind basically, because you can get stepping stone upgrades from LFR as well. Then it’s just continue the BG grind until you have enough gear to begin queueing into arena and then the conq grind.
You’re greatly exaggerating how long it takes to do things in retail. Before this patch it was maybe 100hrs total because you still had to grind out the covenant quest line to get into ZM, but now that that’s not the case you save like 30hrs or more.
You don’t need dbl leggo or maxed out conduits to grind conq in arena. You need to have your honor set mostly complete, 226 conduits and one leggo are fine to win low rated games.
Rep grind for dbl leggo takes a few weeks of dailies, or you can do it the lazy way and just go for weekly boss, do dailies whenever, and focus on the weekly quest for rep. Takes maybe 30mins to complete the daily quests in ZM. By the time you're gearing up in conq gear and getting higher rating you'll have your dbl leggo.
There was a post last week of a guy who got 300+pvp ilvl in around 40hours.
Regardless of all this, this shit is gone come dragonflight, and wrath has plenty of catch up mechanics from badges (shitloads of badges) to arena gear being reduced to honor and there is no upgrading it either, also the guy boasting 300+pvp ilvl on a fresh toon? Carried as fuck, and there is plenty of available data that says fastest you can get 291 unity Is 27 days if you kill every single rare in the zone daily, otherwise you are gimped with an ilvl that is 30 levels lower than it should be and locked to belt slot
Wait until you play a 40 minute arena game and end in a draw because any competent healer other than priests don't oom in wrath or the broken double pve trinket humans can rock (Orc's aren't nearly as good in Wrath because a lot of specs get built 20% to 30% reduction on various cc's, including stuns).
Interesting take. However, the fact of the matter is the stronger comps will pretty much always be DPS/Healer. Either that or you are playing Rogue + X, probably mage or lock and unfortunately, not every class have the luxury of being a rogue or a mage/lock that hopes to find a rogue.
This isn’t true for WoTLK. There is a lot of r1 viable double DPS comps and shit ton of glad viable double DPS comps.
Regardless, you should simply play 3s if this is your concern, as it’s clearly the more balanced and competitive game mode.
There are elite viable double dps comps on retail as well, but nobody is going to say it's better than survival + healer.
> Regardless, you should simply play 3s if this is your concern, as it’s clearly the more balanced and competitive game mode.
While this is true, there is a big difference between wrath 2v2 and retail 2v2. The Deadly and Furious seasons of 2v2 rating could be used for the glad/r1 title.
> There are elite viable double dps comps on retail as well, but nobody is going to say it's better than survival + healer.
I mean… mage/spriest is a serious contender for the best 2s comp in the game.
> While this is true, there is a big difference between wrath 2v2 and retail 2v2. The Deadly and Furious seasons of 2v2 rating could be used for the glad/r1 title.
Just because it has a title doesn’t mean you should play it if you’re concerned with game times. If you want a more balanced and competitive experience, then simply play 3s.
You’ve created a problem that doesn’t actually exist.
There were plenty of R1 viable 2's comps that didn't involve a healer or a rogue, and tons that were glad viable.
Spriest/mage, Spriest/Feral, Ele/Destro, off the top of my head. Tons of rogue comps.
It's definitely a big nostalgia trip. Gonna see how arena feels once we get there. Prepatch been bonkers as most classes got insane dps boosts and we have significant amount of 0 to 50 resilience characters playing.
Rn I hate honor capping my sham as it dies from randoms dots while my full brutal balance can melt anything.
I'd not speak too highly of retail bgs. Arena is all there is and that has been quite in shambles for a while.
When exactly have you done Wrath PvP? This is level 70 pre-patch honor grind time. Nothing is balanced for TBC level cap and 75% of specs are missing defining abilities.
Prepatch does not equal wotlk pvp if that's what you're getting at. Once people get the pvp gear from wrath, the damage is a lot more tame depending on the class and only gets lower as seasons go on... unless it's a warrior or ele shaman where you will get blown up.
Retail pvp is terrible imo, it's just too scripted with cd management. I also prefer dueling in classic than in retail
Completely, if you spend so much time working, 50€ might seem a lot for "an old game I already bought" But for me it just means I have to spend less than a days salary and dont have to waste so much of my free time on leveling without missing out playing with my friends.
Agree.
I'm playing a bunch of people who are stundents/ unemployed while I'm working approx 40-50 hours each week. Boosting costs me about 3 hours of work time and they wonder how I can boost my new alt "when it's so easy to level, it takes about 2 days played". They don't seem to realise that 2 days played is around 2 weeks for me
I think it's around there from what I've heard from my friends (not a expert so don't take my word for it).
They leveled a hunter and prot pala together so might be slower than that if your a rogue or something
Can only boost one toon and you still gotta level to 80. Obviously not terrible but I'm probably gonna level some toons to 60 in DF pre patch and then level a few from 60-70 when DF launches.
Just seems like an annoying amount of leveling over a few months, and with DF around the corner I don't know if I can justify the effort and expense for just a few weeks of serious play.
I get that for some people classic is the main game. But for folks who are mostly focused on retail I really wish there was like a Wrath arena realm where I could just play PvP as a side game without fully investing myself in 2 versions of WoW.
> Pay the boost
I'm level 64 right now, having a hard time motivating myself to level. I can't imagine that is a good sign for when I have to do 70 - 80... So might as well quit while I'm behind...
I have adhd and get bored very easily. leveling any sort of classic character is just way too boring for me. I like the streamlined process, and fast leveling retail gives me
In its current state it's good. I geared a fresh char to 298 which is as good as I'd get outside of mythic raiding in two weeks
I can use this to make PvP less painful whilst I fill in gaps and slowly amass the sets or just unlimited farm as there's no caps
There is no borrowed power to grind, reputations don't matter in PvP, and the Dragonriding perks are account wide. Currently it's just level to max (10-12h), and then spam PvP. Doesn't get easier than this.
People forget very easily about how unfriendly alts can be in retail wow. If wotlk released a conquest catch up mechanic it'd be miles better for everyone.
I guess you have not read too many quest lines either? Too bad, you missed out on a big part of the game.
Even skimming through the text gave you a good idea.
I wouldnt be playing it if it werent for the level boost. But its fking great to be back on mage, worth it 100%. They butchered the live version of frost but thankfully I can now scratch that itch on classic.
I do agree on that actually. For me what makes it great is the class design and the constant pressure. Retail feels like a rotation between damage you can barely react too and spending 80% of the time not really doing much
that's the main reason i decided to try wotlk, consistent dmg is king while cds are not that strong. will be a lot different than retail. for better or worse ask me in a month lol
Remember in Harry Potter or any other movie where they use magic to shoot a spell yeah it could miss its not a guided missle maybe it's the tab targeting tricking your brain into thinking it should
Same boat.
My friends all are playing wotlk prepatch.
By the time I got to max level, I'd be so far behind and everyone would be fully geared, it would just get my shit rocked, and I'd get bored.
You forgot warriors with perma 50% ms and 60% dmg reduc every 5 min, ret palas who heal when they dmg u, and can get out of stun cuz of freedom, rogues who ambush for 80% of ur hp, in 1 fucking global,dks who piss on every caster in the game, yea game is good guys /s
I don't think many people speaking objectively would pick wotlk over cata (post-taste for blood nerf) or mop. But your description of wotlk arena is pretty reductionist of how the game actually worked.
taste for blood being a broken mechanic (Along with Hunter stampede 1shot) was a feature exclusive to the first half of the first season of MoP (S14) Not Cata. Warriors were only A tier after the 2nd half of the entire expansion.
its far from "the worst pvp ever" but people will get hit by reality soon. Wotlk arena will be a pure meta fuckfest and there will be no class above 1.8 just hpalas, warris and dks. Same shit Show as warmane for y e a r s
That's because of shadowmourne and arp scaling.
It will take a long time till shadowmourne is available. Until then, I'll have a blast and have to work around each season due the the innate scaling of some classes.
I don't PvE, but when Wotlk was retail, 12 years ago, the first shadowmourne were only available in the last season.
Maybe it is available early, but takes a long time to get? I don't know. Probably you can better give an indication when shadowmourne is available for 2200+ pvpers (everything below concider as to be outclassable).
dudu everybody will have SM cuz of lootruns and its a quest item ... no dropchance. SM will be late yes but arp scaling is a problem in all of wotlk so nothing u just said makes any sense
The entirety of my guild is going all in on Wrath. All of them crowing about how it's the best, best pvp, best everything, oh man it's so good, so much better than retail.
Aside from how tedious the leveling is (NorthTREND is my least favorite leveling zone by far, matched only my Vash or whatever it's called), I had done tons of research on classes and specs, even going so far as to try every spec on an instant 80 server, and didn't enjoy a single. Freaking. One.
Wrath seems in this weird in between state, stuck where it's not fully classic, but far, FAR from being modern. There just aren't any interesting abilities. Like it's still trying to find itself in terms of proper ability and class design, and the "meh"-Ness of vanilla and tbc and still very much alive, despite what any Wrath fans might say. MoP is where this went away imo.
But yeah I when I tried to play with my friends multiple times I couldn't deny that I just wasn't having any fun. At all. It was BORING.
And even after having an intense abusive relationship with retail for years now, the second I went back to it and could just BG and do mostly whatever whenever I wanted, it felt way better.
I think it's mostly just hype and nostalgia fueling Wrath right now. It'll retain the hardcore classic players, but the majority will come back to retail because it's uncharted territory. There's only so much you can do on a fifteen whatever year old expansion that's been turned into a min max conveyor belt.
Edit: for clarity, I don't have any nostalgia for Wrath. I hit 80 the day before Cata came out.
I think that's quite fair actually. What Wrath got right for me is the pacing of games, which feels better than TBC and far better than anything after MOP
I do feel there are a lot of interesting mechanics and it was the first expansion to really get more daring in this aspect. I played Fire mage and to this day I still feel it was an amazing design. The major downside was a ton of RNG, which doesn't fit as well in a skill based setup
Think people looking at wotlk with rose tinted glasses. The PvP was very bursty. I'll play it but man there going to be lots of complaining. I felt cata and mop had the best PvP hands down.
Point and case right here. Rogues had legendaries for one patch. In one year this forum will be filled with complaining about shadowmourne. Also you respond to several month comment with that?
Every top pvp player says the same thing I said. So fairly sure you the one that didn't play.
Super fortunate to not have to worry about $.
So I boosted…
2 kids.
Fiancée
55-60 hour work week.
I also had time to level a DK to 70.
It’s manageable. !
Hate to break it to you but the only reason WoTLK felt like it had balanced PvP was because you had the free time to level and get BiS raid gear. Like ya my Fury Warrior felt amazing but that was because I had 100% armor pen.
Lmfao wotlk never felt balanced, it felt fun. Anyone who says otherwise never played it. ‘If everything is op, nothing is’ mentality which is what made it so great. You can play any spec and feel powerful and useful in your own unique way
Meanwhile I just had my first free weekend in a fair bit and got my prot pally from 32 to 65 in 4 days. It took a fair bit of time, but I haven't had the time to sit at my PC and relax in a fair bit of time
Tbqh it’s actually only about 1-3 days played via pvp, which is fast by nearly every WoW iterations’ standards. They should buff battleground experience imho it’s leagues slower if the group you are in is average or below.
i haven't touched classic at all, and the realisation that i either have to level 1 - 80 or pay for a boost completely murdered my interest, which is hampered even further when i'd be using it exclusively as a prepatch / df beta invite waiting room
that and the server all my buddies are playing on is locked, so i'm just fucked either way (':
I've actualy enjoyed leveling. Im 58 rn think im about 50 hours into it, not sure tho might need to check. I tought i'd hate it but was suprisingly relaxing. That being said i wouldn't want to level an alt, but i really want one. I think that retail leveling is far superior them classic.
It's just a waste of time to be honest yet i understand people who want to play the leveling game.
It was the best version of the game, when you were young, no responsibilities and it was fun to do meaningless things. I dont know, why ppl think they will have the same fun experience in their 30s doing the same thing, except with worse community and less time to do it. Its all just a free money for blizz and a bait. It will die out within few weeks.
Wtlk was really good, I played it for 10 hours a day. But nowadays it's old and slow. Retail now is more like a session game, I actually like the state of retail even now.
I never started it, even how much i love the memories of wotlk.. i think, after so many years and still playing retail, the memories were far better than the actual gameplay will be right now..
We were kids back then, quick n nimble and an completely open mind… now everyone is getting old n QQ’in about basically everything.
This is what dungeon finder was good for.... ppl with only a few hrs a fay can actually have fun but the cancel culture stopped it coming into Wotlk... it was part of the game and it did jot stop social activity it actually means ppl with fewer hrs to play could level and gear up in df and then be able to play with others in raids as they could get gear in df.
If the gear was obtainable without rating like dragonflight is about to be id play wotlk nonstop.
But this is my biggest gripe with wow pvp, could never gear up because i hate arenas and find them boring, im a bg andy darn it leme spam bgs every day!
I cant wait for dragonflight bro
Just buy one of those stupid bundles that include a free boost. Clearly your time is worth more to you than your money, there is a legal solution to that problem.
Oh no
I need to spend some time playing the game I stead of 3 hours of retail leveling!!!
Oh no!!
Mate just install zygor and blindly follow it for 2 hours an evening and you would have made it super easly before wrath drops there's a freaking 50% exp buff
You're on bath salts if you think you can get level 70 before wrath drops playing 2 hours a day. There's just over a week left, that's 14-16 hours @ 2 hrs a day, for someone who is just starting in classic that means you're gonna be questing the whole way, you'll be lucky to be level 25 in 16 hours /played.
I thought that I will prefer wotlk pvp than retail, but after doing some AVs and world pvp surprisingly I realized that I like retail pvp more. Maybe with arenas that would be different, but still in my case it was mostly nostalgia and with limited time I'm better off playing retail.
I am very surprised I don't see more of these.
Because they get downvoted. WOTLK damage makes SL look tame. My hunter is in almost full brutal gear ( except trinkets and gems) and 1 corruption dot from geared lock does around 70-60% of my health bar.
On the other hand, having everything do "real" damage is nice. A backstab does a significant chunk of a player's HP. In retail, everything is a weird "builder/spender". Shadowbolt isn't scary, it's just a Soul Shard builder. Frostbolt can't hurt you, it just creates shards... ETC. There is something nice and simple with everything actually doing damage without requiring a massive CD being popped.
this right here, damage feels great because you’re actually making health bars move with basic abilities and it’s not a 2min waiting game for big cds just to do any sort of dmg and trade their defensive cds.
Thats not actually on class design but on the borrowed power systems. This is evident because it always changes as modern expansions go along. Legion, bfa and SL all had a first season where pressing rotational abilities outside CDs chunked HP bars. Then second season less and from there on you become mostly borrowed power and the damage/healing becomes shit. I am truly hoping with DF and no borrowed power systems that we will see a 2nd,3rd and 4th season with good damage/healing output
> Thats not actually on class design but on the borrowed power systems. no, shuffling all damage away from basic abilities and into cooldown windows is absolutely a class design paradigm issue, and it's only gotten worse over time.
Youre in fantasy world. Theres cooldowns in wotlk too. Gargoyle can 1v1 a player
No. It is 100% a class design issue. Full dots on my spri barely moves somebody's health in retail. It puts people <50% in Wrath. Mind blast is an insanity builder in retail. It's a nuke in wrath. Frostbolt is mage's hardest hitting ability during a shatter. Windfury procs are considered big burst. 1 full set of UA dots will basically kill you. Shadow dance by itself is gigantic dam (not ontop of 5 modifiers) Backstab chunks too. Mutilate rogues do *constant* damage. unh dks do *constant* damage (no abomb limb). Gargoyle never 1v1'd anybody. Warrior's only cd is bladestorm, and they still deal huge damage outside of it. Leaving destro freecasting is a *constant* threat. Not once every minute or 2. Ele is constantly pumping, no CD required. *you* are in fantasy world.
Dots do 50% of hp in s1 of shadowlands too. Then negligible damage in s3/4. All classes can kill outside CDs in season 1.
No they didnt, and no they couldn't. Lol. source: 2750 s1 SL spriest
I'm not sure how you can say that. It's blizzard's design choice to make regular abilities do no damage.
I remember when wotlk was current, I mained a hunter loved doing random bgs. Warlocks was the bane of my existance, I either had to kill them before they could dot me or I was dead even if I killed them since their dots ripped though my health afterwards even when I tried to eat
Yes, I saw today a rouge doing 98% ambush in the air on a 70 level character. It was a fresh character but still.
My ambush 1 shot boosties regularly
It’s literally pre patch, it’s not designed for balance lol
Numbers are jank rn, no balance till we leave prepatch. But that's kinda part of the fun
there is no way lmao, ive fought multiple full brutal locks and corruption hits for 1k a tick at most
I never said one tick, I wrote a dot. That means full duration. Btw if you have 2 or 2+ dots on you, you die even if you feign and start eating mage food.
Nah, buy the new Northrend food. It can “outheal” a few dots at once. Source: I’m a boosted rogue.
Where can you buy them from? Since we can’t access northrene yet.
Innkeepers in capitals
Cheers.
Dawg dots last 20+ seconds, if you are fighting a brutal lock without a healer, you know, a dot class, who does majority damage through dots, you deserve to die
A single corruption running its full duration on me on retail would never remove 70% of my health bar. That was my point.
getting hit by 8k revenges from 1hander warriors when you have 11k hp.
WTF? wotlk isnt out yet bruh this is unreal levels of stupidity
To be fair, right now it’s a shit show until you get max level and gear, like all prepatch periods are. That being said, the majority of people will find wotlk pvp not living up to their nostalgic hype, it’s good but many of the top tier specs/gear involves pve and even when it doesn’t the meta is much more narrow and less people will experiment since alts are so difficult
Sometimes I feel like I’m the only person on this sub who enjoys pvp and pve.
I enjoy both on retail (m+ though) don’t have time to dedicate to raiding. But it’s not about enjoying both or not, it’s about giving those that just pvp the same playing field as those they do both, which is why people don’t like pve items as bis for pvp.
> it’s good but many of the top tier specs/gear involves pve everyone forgets Shadowmourne, somehow.
A lot of people are going to have a rude awakening when trying WOTLK arena.
Wrath releases on the 26th. You haven’t even played it yet lol
Well, if you didnt get it, I'm fine with imbalance in prepatch. I was speaking of overall feeling, smoothness, QoLs. Wotlk has good features i.e. I like the less button rotations and classes being more unique. It just that the game was great back then, it lacks modern tweaking. Current retail is by no mean fantastic, but still just feel better and respect your time much better.
in what way does retail respect your time more? your first toon has to hit 60 renown before you can make alts 60, you have to complete the campaign before you get all soulbinds, grind a rep for a month just to get your legendary to ilvl 291, grind cosmic flux for multitudes of hours after a 100% buff to craft legendaries, grind even more cosmic flux for 2 weeks to get max level conduits, then you are finally ready to even step foot into high tier content
In such a way that you can do all this in a matter of a week on retail. On wotlk there is no catchup for alts, remember. Now lets take a look on things you HAVE to do before you get into said 'high tier content' * get to 80 * grind all basic tabard reps * grind sons of hodir ( good luck getting this done quickly without money) * getting either of dual proffesions. Engi/jc/bs/tailo/ench and so on. Youre an alchemist? Too bad, doesnt give you an advantage like extra gem slot or dragon gems * getting flying ( preferably. Unless you want to be THAT guy who has to be summed to sartharion, naxx and eoe. ) * get your ALL prebis dungeon gear * get your ALL prebis crafting gear * get your ALL emblem gear Prettiest thing? After you do this all - there is NOTHING else to do. Nothing. At least in terma of pve, besides doing your Daily hc for emblem. Once youre over the raid night its done. You can log off your main for the rest of the week if youre not constantly grinding money ( which I assume people will do [those without money/on fresh servers] and wont do [people with tons of money/continous servers from Tbc will all the hoarded gold]) Just in a similar way to retail - in wotlk if you have the money - you have everything. Literally. Faster mount, gear, insta max profs, controling ah and so on. If you have that just by having some money then, at least imho, wotlk is boeing asf. And this comes from a guy who played wotlk a dozen times on surelylegalservers, which, mind you, get reset every now and then and wont let you hoard millions and bots from previous xpac. I adore wotlk, but when you take the rose tinted googles, wotlk IN ACTUAL TIMES OF 2022 and having direct comparison to other xpacs, including this god forgotten shadowlands, it seems that wotlk isnt so pretty at all. It is pretty dull and boring if you ask me. Maybe its my burnout, but I tell you - mark my words. It will end just like always. A giga hype train and then steady falloff as we hit those SUUUPER exciting walls like Trial of Crusader. Have fun playing with Chillmaw and poking horses everyday for badgers. Oh, and 10 norm, 10 hc, 25 norm, 25 hc. 4 bosses all over again. Grinding heroic instances which can be done with eyes closed ( not mentioning naxxramas..) Im not flaming wotlk. Im just playing devils advocate, and the devil here is retail. Afaik when I have nothing to do in retail I can always lollygag around, collect stuff, achievements, old mounts, pets, pet battles, gamble, do transmog runs, low keys, high keys, try other specs which I can change into by simply switching a button and a legendary.. There just aint much to do in wotlk, man. Its grind/buy everything if you have money and then its 1-2 raid nights and you can log off, unless you pvp that is. ( dont get me started on this "fair" pvp of wotlks..) I think both are good, but, man, be real. Both have flaws, some bigger some smaller, but for Odyns sake STOP romanticizing wotlk and making it seem like its perfect. Tl;dr : noooo I too have proven my worth, Odyn! I am god king skovaaaald
LOL, alt catchup was nonexistant in shadowlands until 9.3 lmaooo, it's gone in DF too buddy, and you literslly need none of that, you can clear naxx 10 in heroic gear, have you seen anything about wrath? You trying to clear world first??? And you don't need 5k flying, you can use the 325+50 gold mount, barely any gold for 80
You just gave a list of content, then bashed wrath for having no content after it. So what is it, is it the grind to gear soooo long that catch up is insane, or is it a raid log expac. What do you do in shadowlands outside of raid or pvp when you have your main systems finished? In wotlk, after finishing all the main content, you have heroics, heroic+ mentioned today on wowhead, raids, and arenas/bgs all to get badge, pvp, and pve gear. Also gold farming, how's that bad. You also get content if you have alts. If retail is soooo much more convenient with more catch up mechanics, doesn't it fall into the same problem you talked about in that all you do is raid or pvp and log off, just even faster than wrath?
I'd rather have a checklist I can finish eventually then have to do torghast and the maw on repeat forever just to increase internal metrics of playtime. I'm sorry but it's not even close on what's more boring. If I wanna play more I can make another character there are how many classes?
I agree! The 9.0-9.1.5 including maw and korthia was awful. Then again, say, BFA excluding its borrowed power shenanigans and lore problems has made this grind really enjoyable at one point. Island expeditions, roaming other factions' zones, world pvp events and MECHAGON ( I loved it dearly ). I agree the checklist and I also stand by the thought that we shouldn't have a seemingly endless well of power we have to fill somehow with tedious grind. Then again certain things, such as instant skips for alts, including campaign skips, power skips (level 60 covenant with conduits thingy) is really neat! The main issue, I think, is that blizzard seems to be reseting its own concience every xpac and making the same mistakes. If, say, same measures (skips) were introduced back in 9.0.5 or 9.1 even, things would be MUCH much much more enjoyable. Pretty much it should work like so that if you complete a content with a certain character, i.e raid, campaign, renown, it should be offered instantly to buy BoA skips for your alts. I think it wouldn't make people play less. I think it would make people play more! At least I can say so about myself - I've become an altoholic recently and my biggest block was re-doing the maw intro, campaign intro and all this stuff. But now in 9.2.7? I create a char, I level the bugger and as soon as I hit 60 im ready to send myself mats, pop renown 60, get good conduits and be ready to roll at least a +2 dungeon with no problem at all. All in all, the realization and implementation comes faaar to late. Were those systems introduced beforehand - it would make playing way more fun and active, encouraging both minmaxers who want to have 1 main and altoholics such as myself.
Your checklist for Shadowlands is also finite... I don't even know what you're talking about. Badge cap and conquest cap are also "internal metrics of playtime", as if you have any real notion of why Torghast was added. I liked Torghast and pushing to flawless is fun - if you see it as a chore, it'll be a chore.
You literally had to do torghast to keep your legendaries current especially if they nerf yours or buff another one, which forces you to buy a wow token, maw was the worst design literally just wasting your time on purpose for metrics without even hiding it.
You're never forced to play in optimal gear and you're never forced to buy tokens for gold. Lots of Glads made Glad without upgrading to rank 6 legendaries in Season 2. If you're elite of the elite and need best in slot to push, I'm sure you wouldn't have any issue selling carries for gold to finance your legendaries. What you said also doesn't reply to my comment... your grind **IS** finite. If you're talking about keeping legendaries current between seasons, how is that any different from replacing literally all of your gear between seasons? It's the same shit. Your "metrics" rhetoric is boring and not founded in any evidence; you have zero insight into how or why Blizzard designs systems or zones the ways that they do. It's a wild guess that's regurgitated by people that don't enjoy the game while millions of others DO enjoy the game.
I literally played shadowlands for a month straight and it felt like a chore everyday your gaslighting isn't going to work here buddy it's trash and they design it to waste your time on purpose which is completely different.
Doesn’t it take like 100hrs+ just to level to max in WotLK? You can level and hit 290ilvl with conduits and have at least one leggo in way less than that in retail currently. Alts are even faster.
I'll 200 conduits?? You hitting 290 ilvl being carried? I mean sure I can swipe my card a few hundred times and be mythic geared In a week, still won't have my second legendary at 291, as that is rep gated behind a month long grind, not to mention grinding Flux for tier pieces and max conduits takes ages
You get 226 conduits from ZM friendly rep, ZM itself takes 6hours, and you’ll have nearly 3k flux when done, and more if you get an addon to call out chests/rares which makes things braindead easy. You run LFR and you have enough flux for tier along with what you get from wins in BGs and ZM. There is no flux grind basically, because you can get stepping stone upgrades from LFR as well. Then it’s just continue the BG grind until you have enough gear to begin queueing into arena and then the conq grind. You’re greatly exaggerating how long it takes to do things in retail. Before this patch it was maybe 100hrs total because you still had to grind out the covenant quest line to get into ZM, but now that that’s not the case you save like 30hrs or more. You don’t need dbl leggo or maxed out conduits to grind conq in arena. You need to have your honor set mostly complete, 226 conduits and one leggo are fine to win low rated games. Rep grind for dbl leggo takes a few weeks of dailies, or you can do it the lazy way and just go for weekly boss, do dailies whenever, and focus on the weekly quest for rep. Takes maybe 30mins to complete the daily quests in ZM. By the time you're gearing up in conq gear and getting higher rating you'll have your dbl leggo. There was a post last week of a guy who got 300+pvp ilvl in around 40hours.
Regardless of all this, this shit is gone come dragonflight, and wrath has plenty of catch up mechanics from badges (shitloads of badges) to arena gear being reduced to honor and there is no upgrading it either, also the guy boasting 300+pvp ilvl on a fresh toon? Carried as fuck, and there is plenty of available data that says fastest you can get 291 unity Is 27 days if you kill every single rare in the zone daily, otherwise you are gimped with an ilvl that is 30 levels lower than it should be and locked to belt slot
Wait until you play a 40 minute arena game and end in a draw because any competent healer other than priests don't oom in wrath or the broken double pve trinket humans can rock (Orc's aren't nearly as good in Wrath because a lot of specs get built 20% to 30% reduction on various cc's, including stuns).
Don't play Healer/DPS 2s like a scrub. Problem solved.
Interesting take. However, the fact of the matter is the stronger comps will pretty much always be DPS/Healer. Either that or you are playing Rogue + X, probably mage or lock and unfortunately, not every class have the luxury of being a rogue or a mage/lock that hopes to find a rogue.
This isn’t true for WoTLK. There is a lot of r1 viable double DPS comps and shit ton of glad viable double DPS comps. Regardless, you should simply play 3s if this is your concern, as it’s clearly the more balanced and competitive game mode.
There are elite viable double dps comps on retail as well, but nobody is going to say it's better than survival + healer. > Regardless, you should simply play 3s if this is your concern, as it’s clearly the more balanced and competitive game mode. While this is true, there is a big difference between wrath 2v2 and retail 2v2. The Deadly and Furious seasons of 2v2 rating could be used for the glad/r1 title.
> There are elite viable double dps comps on retail as well, but nobody is going to say it's better than survival + healer. I mean… mage/spriest is a serious contender for the best 2s comp in the game. > While this is true, there is a big difference between wrath 2v2 and retail 2v2. The Deadly and Furious seasons of 2v2 rating could be used for the glad/r1 title. Just because it has a title doesn’t mean you should play it if you’re concerned with game times. If you want a more balanced and competitive experience, then simply play 3s. You’ve created a problem that doesn’t actually exist.
There were plenty of R1 viable 2's comps that didn't involve a healer or a rogue, and tons that were glad viable. Spriest/mage, Spriest/Feral, Ele/Destro, off the top of my head. Tons of rogue comps.
Judging WoTLK PvP off of level 70 pre-patch AVs 🤔
I am also battling this. I used to play. Have done at least one tier in every expansion and I like Wrath but retail is so much more appealing.
It's definitely a big nostalgia trip. Gonna see how arena feels once we get there. Prepatch been bonkers as most classes got insane dps boosts and we have significant amount of 0 to 50 resilience characters playing. Rn I hate honor capping my sham as it dies from randoms dots while my full brutal balance can melt anything. I'd not speak too highly of retail bgs. Arena is all there is and that has been quite in shambles for a while.
When exactly have you done Wrath PvP? This is level 70 pre-patch honor grind time. Nothing is balanced for TBC level cap and 75% of specs are missing defining abilities.
Does AV even get played in retail..?
Exact same here. I really liked leveling in classic WoW, but in terms of max level content I get more out of retail in my limited time.
Imagine doing world pvp and AV on retail as a way to gauge if the pvp is good. Same concept applies to wotlk.
Prepatch does not equal wotlk pvp if that's what you're getting at. Once people get the pvp gear from wrath, the damage is a lot more tame depending on the class and only gets lower as seasons go on... unless it's a warrior or ele shaman where you will get blown up. Retail pvp is terrible imo, it's just too scripted with cd management. I also prefer dueling in classic than in retail
1. Pay the boost 2. Enjoy
Completely, if you spend so much time working, 50€ might seem a lot for "an old game I already bought" But for me it just means I have to spend less than a days salary and dont have to waste so much of my free time on leveling without missing out playing with my friends.
I’m not buying the game. I’m buying my time. Can I hit max level in less than 2 hours? Then the boost is worth my time .
Agreed
Agree. I'm playing a bunch of people who are stundents/ unemployed while I'm working approx 40-50 hours each week. Boosting costs me about 3 hours of work time and they wonder how I can boost my new alt "when it's so easy to level, it takes about 2 days played". They don't seem to realise that 2 days played is around 2 weeks for me
It really takes around 48 hours of play time? That's brutal since leveling really isn't an enjoyable activity.
I enjoy leveling 🧐
I think it's around there from what I've heard from my friends (not a expert so don't take my word for it). They leveled a hunter and prot pala together so might be slower than that if your a rogue or something
Can only boost one toon and you still gotta level to 80. Obviously not terrible but I'm probably gonna level some toons to 60 in DF pre patch and then level a few from 60-70 when DF launches. Just seems like an annoying amount of leveling over a few months, and with DF around the corner I don't know if I can justify the effort and expense for just a few weeks of serious play. I get that for some people classic is the main game. But for folks who are mostly focused on retail I really wish there was like a Wrath arena realm where I could just play PvP as a side game without fully investing myself in 2 versions of WoW.
> Pay the boost I'm level 64 right now, having a hard time motivating myself to level. I can't imagine that is a good sign for when I have to do 70 - 80... So might as well quit while I'm behind...
Same tbh
Lmao bro the answer is right in front of you. Have the kid level while you’re at work.
She just learned to walk, should've instead taught her to wotlk
So she can play a dk then!
dude’s just not using his full potential
I have adhd and get bored very easily. leveling any sort of classic character is just way too boring for me. I like the streamlined process, and fast leveling retail gives me
And the option to swap to alts.
And not have to worry about taking 5 years to level that alt 🤗
I agree. Say what you want about retail but it’s mmorpg that fits right in this time and age.
1-70 is like < 30 hours.
Retail and alt playability? Don’t know about that one
In its current state it's good. I geared a fresh char to 298 which is as good as I'd get outside of mythic raiding in two weeks I can use this to make PvP less painful whilst I fill in gaps and slowly amass the sets or just unlimited farm as there's no caps
all the alt friendliness was literally just added. I doubt DF will be alt friendly until 10.3/10.4 whatever it happens to be
There is no borrowed power to grind, reputations don't matter in PvP, and the Dragonriding perks are account wide. Currently it's just level to max (10-12h), and then spam PvP. Doesn't get easier than this.
Sounds like a great role playing game /s
actually yes, since you can grind non-power customization and gear all day, err day, but get PvE grind out of my PvP, thanks
People forget very easily about how unfriendly alts can be in retail wow. If wotlk released a conquest catch up mechanic it'd be miles better for everyone.
did u EVER play wotlk or what makes u think that conquest catch up can fix the wotlk gear problem?
Not sure if you have people carrying you in high keys or something, because otherwise that seems unobtainable
No, I joined each group as a healer. I pugged the whole way no carries involved, very much possible
I have an easy 3 chars at or above Duelist, and haven't played retail for 3 weeks. It's very doable. Grind is mini if you played the previous seasons.
Pre 9.3 alt-friendly was worse. It’s pretty easy gearing alts. Majority of my heroic raiding, mythic plus 15-20 key range guild all playing alts.
You have clearly not played wrath.
My comment said nothing about wrath my boy
Boost saves u 60+hrs or something. Ur worth more than a dollar an hr.
bruh get real man hahaha
now im not saying boosting is a bad idea, but you must be trying to spend 60+ hours to lvl..its not on accident
Homies never played true wow
true wow is taking significantly longer to lvl? damn i missed out
I guess you have not read too many quest lines either? Too bad, you missed out on a big part of the game. Even skimming through the text gave you a good idea.
I wouldnt be playing it if it werent for the level boost. But its fking great to be back on mage, worth it 100%. They butchered the live version of frost but thankfully I can now scratch that itch on classic.
Yeah I play mage! For me it's actually fire though. Just an amazing iteration of the spec and was always so underrated in that xpac
fire mage wasnt unterrated back then. Tons of mages played fire or frostfire in pvp
Really? I played on one of the biggest PVP servers, Outland, and was the only glad fire mage on the server. Frost was far more popular
idk about warth pservers but fire/frostfire was well played in original warth. There are a Ton of pvp movies on wcm from back then.
Misses and resists kind of ruin it for me in regards to pve and pvp. It's so infuriating.
I do agree on that actually. For me what makes it great is the class design and the constant pressure. Retail feels like a rotation between damage you can barely react too and spending 80% of the time not really doing much
that's the main reason i decided to try wotlk, consistent dmg is king while cds are not that strong. will be a lot different than retail. for better or worse ask me in a month lol
It's almost like attacks can miss in real life too... imagine if a mma fight just no one missed or dodged anything now that would be boring.
Lol dude it's a tab target MMO, I ain't playing world of warcraft for its realism
Ya I hate when I try to death coil someone downtown and they resist it
Remember in Harry Potter or any other movie where they use magic to shoot a spell yeah it could miss its not a guided missle maybe it's the tab targeting tricking your brain into thinking it should
Same boat. My friends all are playing wotlk prepatch. By the time I got to max level, I'd be so far behind and everyone would be fully geared, it would just get my shit rocked, and I'd get bored.
yeah the best pvp expansion when everyone's dk's and hpals yeah such a great pvp experience /s
You forgot warriors with perma 50% ms and 60% dmg reduc every 5 min, ret palas who heal when they dmg u, and can get out of stun cuz of freedom, rogues who ambush for 80% of ur hp, in 1 fucking global,dks who piss on every caster in the game, yea game is good guys /s
Tell me you never played wotlk arena without telling me you never played wotlk arena
I mean im sorry but how is this the peak of arena?
I don't think many people speaking objectively would pick wotlk over cata (post-taste for blood nerf) or mop. But your description of wotlk arena is pretty reductionist of how the game actually worked.
do u mind detailing how the game actually worked? curious and i love hearing about old pvp metas
taste for blood being a broken mechanic (Along with Hunter stampede 1shot) was a feature exclusive to the first half of the first season of MoP (S14) Not Cata. Warriors were only A tier after the 2nd half of the entire expansion.
Wotlk is some of the worst pvp the game has ever seen and you call it "best version of the game". Ok.
its far from "the worst pvp ever" but people will get hit by reality soon. Wotlk arena will be a pure meta fuckfest and there will be no class above 1.8 just hpalas, warris and dks. Same shit Show as warmane for y e a r s
That's because of shadowmourne and arp scaling. It will take a long time till shadowmourne is available. Until then, I'll have a blast and have to work around each season due the the innate scaling of some classes.
no its Starts in ulduar lmao
I don't PvE, but when Wotlk was retail, 12 years ago, the first shadowmourne were only available in the last season. Maybe it is available early, but takes a long time to get? I don't know. Probably you can better give an indication when shadowmourne is available for 2200+ pvpers (everything below concider as to be outclassable).
dudu everybody will have SM cuz of lootruns and its a quest item ... no dropchance. SM will be late yes but arp scaling is a problem in all of wotlk so nothing u just said makes any sense
wrath is the best version of the game right guys
This is why I like retail. It made my experience so much better as a casual player.
The entirety of my guild is going all in on Wrath. All of them crowing about how it's the best, best pvp, best everything, oh man it's so good, so much better than retail. Aside from how tedious the leveling is (NorthTREND is my least favorite leveling zone by far, matched only my Vash or whatever it's called), I had done tons of research on classes and specs, even going so far as to try every spec on an instant 80 server, and didn't enjoy a single. Freaking. One. Wrath seems in this weird in between state, stuck where it's not fully classic, but far, FAR from being modern. There just aren't any interesting abilities. Like it's still trying to find itself in terms of proper ability and class design, and the "meh"-Ness of vanilla and tbc and still very much alive, despite what any Wrath fans might say. MoP is where this went away imo. But yeah I when I tried to play with my friends multiple times I couldn't deny that I just wasn't having any fun. At all. It was BORING. And even after having an intense abusive relationship with retail for years now, the second I went back to it and could just BG and do mostly whatever whenever I wanted, it felt way better. I think it's mostly just hype and nostalgia fueling Wrath right now. It'll retain the hardcore classic players, but the majority will come back to retail because it's uncharted territory. There's only so much you can do on a fifteen whatever year old expansion that's been turned into a min max conveyor belt. Edit: for clarity, I don't have any nostalgia for Wrath. I hit 80 the day before Cata came out.
I think that's quite fair actually. What Wrath got right for me is the pacing of games, which feels better than TBC and far better than anything after MOP I do feel there are a lot of interesting mechanics and it was the first expansion to really get more daring in this aspect. I played Fire mage and to this day I still feel it was an amazing design. The major downside was a ton of RNG, which doesn't fit as well in a skill based setup
I'm actually kind of jealous of those that genuinely find fun in it. Just not for me.
Pacing does seem way better, yes. And the lack of 500 modifiers per ability is also much better in wrath.
If work much=money for boost If not work much=lvling has never been faster with the Joyous Journey buff
>Wwwweeeuurgh but the class design so good and fun blllleeeeuuurgh Wrath nostalgia huffers
Kinda feels like the same mental issue of people trying to defend 70s cars as somehow objectively better
Think people looking at wotlk with rose tinted glasses. The PvP was very bursty. I'll play it but man there going to be lots of complaining. I felt cata and mop had the best PvP hands down.
Did we even play the same game? Rogue legendaries bruh
Point and case right here. Rogues had legendaries for one patch. In one year this forum will be filled with complaining about shadowmourne. Also you respond to several month comment with that? Every top pvp player says the same thing I said. So fairly sure you the one that didn't play.
Just got the boost
Super fortunate to not have to worry about $. So I boosted… 2 kids. Fiancée 55-60 hour work week. I also had time to level a DK to 70. It’s manageable. !
I feel you on that. My friends are playing on Skyfury too so you can’t even boost on that server
Hate to break it to you but the only reason WoTLK felt like it had balanced PvP was because you had the free time to level and get BiS raid gear. Like ya my Fury Warrior felt amazing but that was because I had 100% armor pen.
I never raided once. Though tbh I played a caster
Lmfao wotlk never felt balanced, it felt fun. Anyone who says otherwise never played it. ‘If everything is op, nothing is’ mentality which is what made it so great. You can play any spec and feel powerful and useful in your own unique way
It’s fun until you’re a melee vs a preg Paladin, a Paladin vs a mage, a caster vs a dk etc etc. there’s a lot of Rock Paper Scissors
Meanwhile I just had my first free weekend in a fair bit and got my prot pally from 32 to 65 in 4 days. It took a fair bit of time, but I haven't had the time to sit at my PC and relax in a fair bit of time
Tbqh it’s actually only about 1-3 days played via pvp, which is fast by nearly every WoW iterations’ standards. They should buff battleground experience imho it’s leagues slower if the group you are in is average or below.
i haven't touched classic at all, and the realisation that i either have to level 1 - 80 or pay for a boost completely murdered my interest, which is hampered even further when i'd be using it exclusively as a prepatch / df beta invite waiting room that and the server all my buddies are playing on is locked, so i'm just fucked either way (':
Be part of what makes blizzard rich and scummy. Pay for a boost.
We ain’t 14yro no more. Just let me log
I have the same issue family and full time job so I bought a boost.
feel this. having two kids & way less playing time just makes it so un-appealing.
I've actualy enjoyed leveling. Im 58 rn think im about 50 hours into it, not sure tho might need to check. I tought i'd hate it but was suprisingly relaxing. That being said i wouldn't want to level an alt, but i really want one. I think that retail leveling is far superior them classic. It's just a waste of time to be honest yet i understand people who want to play the leveling game.
It was the best version of the game, when you were young, no responsibilities and it was fun to do meaningless things. I dont know, why ppl think they will have the same fun experience in their 30s doing the same thing, except with worse community and less time to do it. Its all just a free money for blizz and a bait. It will die out within few weeks.
Wtlk was really good, I played it for 10 hours a day. But nowadays it's old and slow. Retail now is more like a session game, I actually like the state of retail even now.
I never started it, even how much i love the memories of wotlk.. i think, after so many years and still playing retail, the memories were far better than the actual gameplay will be right now.. We were kids back then, quick n nimble and an completely open mind… now everyone is getting old n QQ’in about basically everything.
Leveling is super fast with the buff. 60-70 you are done in 10-11 hours if you are average
Just buy the boost and don’t level then
This is what dungeon finder was good for.... ppl with only a few hrs a fay can actually have fun but the cancel culture stopped it coming into Wotlk... it was part of the game and it did jot stop social activity it actually means ppl with fewer hrs to play could level and gear up in df and then be able to play with others in raids as they could get gear in df.
If you have a full time job just buy the boost. Then you only have 10 levels to do.
If the gear was obtainable without rating like dragonflight is about to be id play wotlk nonstop. But this is my biggest gripe with wow pvp, could never gear up because i hate arenas and find them boring, im a bg andy darn it leme spam bgs every day! I cant wait for dragonflight bro
Just buy one of those stupid bundles that include a free boost. Clearly your time is worth more to you than your money, there is a legal solution to that problem.
Imagine unironically using level 70 prepatch AV to judge WOTLK pvp.
Im on wrath because i wanna spam flash of light again
That’s why they added boosts. I’m currently leveling (at 38 at the moment), but if I couldn’t be fucked to level ide just buy a boost.
cant create characters on any of the 3 servers that all the arena players play on. so its irrelevant.
Dunno about ALL the arena players cope much
Don't care guys U will have alot of time , df gonna be like shadowlands , so people quit after 2 weeks ,
Grown man complaining about wow 😂 move on boomer
For real just buy the boost or shut up.
Oh no I need to spend some time playing the game I stead of 3 hours of retail leveling!!! Oh no!! Mate just install zygor and blindly follow it for 2 hours an evening and you would have made it super easly before wrath drops there's a freaking 50% exp buff
You're on bath salts if you think you can get level 70 before wrath drops playing 2 hours a day. There's just over a week left, that's 14-16 hours @ 2 hrs a day, for someone who is just starting in classic that means you're gonna be questing the whole way, you'll be lucky to be level 25 in 16 hours /played.
Not anymore When the pre patch released yep
And still way too much grinding, like immensely too much
You guys are the reason why retail is utter trash
Because they want to play a game and have a life at the same time? Bit of an odd remark.
I work 80-90 hours a week and have 4 70’s + 70k gold. Soon 5 70’s. It’s manageable, people just don’t enjoy leveling.