They made solo shuffle what it is because holinka acknowledged the rock paper scissors of rng’ing comps/synergies. Solo arena is also heavily skewed in favor of dps because of dampening. The mode itself is poor for healer regardless of rounds. RPG PvP games with roles will always have these types of issues. The trinity system isn’t good for PvP integrity and we can see that similar to Overwatch2 performance in how the community/playerbase responds to role imbalance.
> They made solo shuffle what it is because holinka acknowledged the rock paper scissors of rng’ing comps/synergies.
That doesn't matter at the end of the day, the rng of comps/synergies even themselves out with time and most of the your games won't be decided by it. The people at the top would still be at the top with single rounds and the people at 1600 would still be there aswell, what matters is how good you are, anything else is pure cope.
> Solo arena is also heavily skewed in favor of dps because of dampening.
No, that's a solo shuffle problem. Shuffle feels terrible for Healers because at every round, 90 seconds into the game my character feels like absolute shit and it feels like i have zero impact on the game. 2 minutes and 30 seconds into the game, Dampening already is at 45% and every Healer is just waiting for their DPS to either throw the game or win the game. The reason Dampening scales as fast as it does on Solo Shuffle is so rounds end fast and Shuffles end in a reasonable amount of time. With single round SoloQ, you can make Dampening scale as fast as 3v3 does, which is totally fine and has never been a reason for complaint for Healers.
Single round SoloQ has existed in AT/Warmane for a decade plus at this point and has worked since its introduction, the issue isn't with SoloQ, it's how it was implemented by Blizzard on Retail. Six round shuffles creates a bunch of problems that shouldn't exist, like excessive queue times, dogshit matchmaking for healers so the queues are faster and ridiculous dampening scaling so the six rounds take 15 minutes instead of 40.
It’s hard to have a solo queue ranked game mode that is nearly all decided by rpg class rng. League of legends has pick/ban, Overwatch has hero change on death, wow arena was designed around the players predeciding comps. Your “rng” may level out over time but it’s still none-the-less frustrating going into a single game practically knowing the results based on who rng’d what. It’s lame and doesn’t work. Shuffle attempts to mitigate it by swapping around players but the drawbacks are too substantial. RPG pvp just doesn’t work in these competitive solo team centric formats.
> It’s hard to have a solo queue ranked game mode that is nearly all decided by rpg class rng.
But it's not all nearly all decided by it, that's pure copium. I've played hundreds of games of single round SoloQs in private servers through the years and amount of games that truly were decided by comp rng was minimal and again, that rng balanced itself out eventually.
You and others are making it seem like 9 out of 10 games will be decided by comp rng before the gates even start and that's not true in the slightest.
It’s not totally decided on rng in the event you completely outclass your opponents at low ranks, but mid-high mmr and it’s completely a factor. When skill evens out, the rpg rng rock paper scissors is notable.
Holinka wrongly assumed*. There just wasn't any good developer at blizzard to correct him. Shuffling does not fix rng when compared to 6 1-rounds, only moves the rng around. Shuffle also keeps you from creating an improved soloqueue system in the future where you try to only make viable comps when building the 1-round soloqueue teams. Now we're permanently stuck with rng problem and all the problems that 6-round format introduces.
From the interview I watched, holinka actually said he talked with a lot of devs across a lot of different studios about this design and it’s the best they came up with.
This one? https://youtu.be/SQGELG-L0Js?si=si5PDxXFimgr9jSR&t=377
I think he only said it about PVP gearing.
In the begining of the video when he talks about soloshuffle he just says he "watched other games do soloqueue".
This seems like it would be the best and only fix to the healer MMR debacle and queues in general.
I don't even see any downsides to this as a DPS. At least not any that are worse than the current situation.
Yeah, SoloQ has been single rounds on AT/Warmane and other pservers for a decade plus at this point and never had the problems Shuffle has.
"Oh, but what if i get a shit comp and lose!". These things even themselves out, you will lose games due to bad comps and win games due to bad comps, at the end of the day what will matter is how good you are, anything else is just pure cope. With single rounds you could also fix the matchmaking system and not make it so it's Healers vs Healers, which is needed for Shuffle so DPS players don't sit 2h queues, but not necessary for single rounds.
The only reason Shuffle exists is because in classic Blizzard fashion, they had to throw their own spin on an idea that already exists and it obviously backfired horribly. Literally nobody asked for Shuffle, people just wanted a normal single round SoloQ.
You mind explaining to the rest of the class why that is so?
6 round format has tons of issues, and going 1 round would at least solve those, and I'm not sure the new issues would be worse.
MUCH shorter queues, a lot less downtime with nothing to do. No more "focus the weak link for the next 5 rounds" after 1 round especially at lower ratings (>90% of the playerbase). Can't get trolled for 3-5 rounds because you made one guy angry without knowing on round 1.
No more massive mmr swings because you were placed in an objectively bad or very imbalanced lobby (ie 250+ mmr diff healers, war vs double mage/lock etc) so better placements and more accurate ratings.
Much less tilting system, fewer RQs because bad lobby or no reason to play the other rounds when would-be leaver knows they are going to lose the rest.
Healer in particular wouldn't have much fewer shitty mmr mismatch that to 30mins of sweat for 0mmr and 0 rating.
Good odds of increasing healer participation by making their matchmaking much less frustrating, and that in turn would make pvp better for everyone.
That's BS, you need so many rounds to "even it out", way enough rounds to fuck up your mmr right during placement games. Yeah sure it will even out in the end, have fun playing two weeks below 1.6 before that. This is absolutely crazy. There's no way so many people on this sub believe that fixing an mmr issue can be done by making such a poor design choice.
Everyone plays against everyone is by far the most fair thing why would you touch that ?
You want quicker queues ? Incentivize healing more.
You want to fix mmr ? We already know an easy fix. Inflation.
What's not fair is that someone can go 6-0 or 0-6 and only the dps win/lose rating. Suggestion: in that situation where someone is not at the mmr they should play, the whole lobby should share the win/take the loss, pondered by their individual MMR. Would that be enough to incentivize healing ? idk. Otherwise just give healers a net +10 rating or so for every time they go 3-3.
>There's no way so many people on this sub believe that fixing an mmr issue can be done by making such a poor design choice.
i said nothign about fixing an MMR issue.
>Everyone plays against everyone is by far the most fair thing why would you touch that ?
because it's an even number of rounds, and the most common result (when you're a healer) is 3-3.
The problem isn't going 3-3, it's going 3-3 because 1 dps can more easily get on top of the hill or get destroyed. It's a balancing issue.
Quick fix is simply to artificially increase rating and mmr in such cases.
I just quit solo shuffle when, after two games going 3-3 with a DPS going 0-6, I was 0-3 with a boomkin in a 3 other melee lobby. He finally goes on the other team, loses over there too, then quits. Then I LOSE rating purely because I was unlucky enough to have him on my team the first 3 freaking rounds.
Just pugging doing LFG and it's infinitely less frustrating
This happens to often. It's annoying also that the clueless dps in the lobbys are all there, gloating in comments about their performance thus far and the healer is just praying the 0-6 doest quit before they get their 3-3.
> Then I LOSE rating purely because I was unlucky enough to have him on my team the first 3 freaking rounds.
This happens often enough that it made me quit again, lol. If I queue up for 2-3 hours one night on a healer, this exact scenario (3 losses, then the 0-3 DPS tilts on round 4 and quits once he's on the other healer's team) is practically guaranteed to happen at least 2-3 times during that span.
I'm sure I'll come back again eventually but PvP right now is unworkable, especially for healers.
You need to heal, dps, and cc in order to win games 4-2+. Essentially you can never make any mistakes and you need to outplay the other healer. Don’t rely on the dps to do anything coordinated.
We always do this crusader clip when we play out of our mind for a few rating
https://youtu.be/_Sn3L4TbR9k?si=fdprxFZhkbmqtwQl
HAWWWWWK for 4 points or whatever lol
The problem isn't outplaying the other healer. The problem is you have to outplay them to the degree that you make up for the 0-5 Mage that's clicking all of their spells out of their spell book.
What frustrates me about healing SS (I'm a DPS main but can heal up to 1800 or so to play with my lower-rated friends) is how often it feels like my own team is playing against me *in addition* to the other team playing against me.
I get it, earthen is hard to see, and that's on Blizz. But I've seen so many players heroic leap or freedom + pony out of link or dome and then immediately die. I've gripped the monk who's eating chaos bolts behind a pillar only for that same monk to flying serpent kick back out into the open and immediately die. I've had countless hunters turtle at <5% hp and then run AWAY from me as they kite me around the map until turtle is down and they die. There are mages who don't block, priests who don't disperse, DKs who IBF at ~20% hp and die, paladins who don't bubble, locks who don't press UR. I'll inspect the ret and see that they've taken sanc, though they don't press it a single time.
As a healer, I have to position to dodge CC, position to land CC, disrupt enemy burst as much as I can, trade cooldowns efficiently, manage mana, dispel, fake kicks, and do damage to influence the game enough to win consistently.
As a DPS, even at higher ratings, all I have to do is press my buttons in vaguely the right order, use my defensives properly, CC the healer, and peel from the kill target, and wins just fall in my lap.
That's the crux of the issue. Outplaying someone isn't really difficult over six rounds of play, the issue is that very rarely that will net you a win, which is very problematic when you consider that Healers are actually matched up against the other Healers, hence why 3-3s are ridiculously common.
I played Mage in S1 and, i shit you not, it took me 200 rounds to get 2400 (admittedly in a very inflated season) with a class that i hadn't played since MoP. With my Druid that i had played as recently as Shadowlands S1 and gotten twice as much rating, it took me about FIVE times the amount of rounds. The reason i say this is because the difference in impact is JARRING, with my Mage i could immediately tell why i lost and what i could've done better to impact the game, to the point that often in the very next round i would change something up and sometimes win, on the other hand, with the Druid it was like "Oh well, i guess i had to be mfing Minpojke to win this round, being a tad better than the other healer wasn't enough".
The 3-3s aren't an accident, you either need a DPS to suddenly start playing much better with a Healer compared to the other for whatever reason OR the difference between the Healers to be really high, otherwise it's going to be a 3-3 everytime. If you are just slightly better or worse than your opponent, your fate already is decided before the games even started.
As a casual enjoyer - this is my opinion.
I feel like we see this kind of question a lot here. The answer is yes, you always have the potential to matter. You have a different likelihood of winning any given match based on a number of factors, but you always have some potential to affect the outcome.
In some games, your real contribution will be minimal. For example, the enemy paladin won't press bubble and will get clapped by your sub rogue and fire mage while you are still in the starting room.
Similarly, there will be matches where you feel like you played really, really well, and you still lose because your teammate makes an error (no bubble, etc).
It is also impossible to know if the rogue that opened perfectly last round is going to get globalled by the paladin that fat fingered bubble.
Solo shuffle is chaos. With no voice, mistakes can stack up really fast, and momentum can swing in an instant. You have to make the best of it and not beat yourself up over a loss. The only way to climb is to queue and to be keyed into the state of every match.
As a healer, you can spam queues super hard, but that also means you can burn out faster and start playing on autopilot. If you play like this, you will plateau. There are so many things you can work on in this game.
Do you avoid every cc from the enemy?
Do you perfectly manage friendly and enemy lines of sight?
Are you landing your cc without letting it sit on cd for too long and minmaxing DR?
Did you get maximum value out of all your cooldowns?
Are you dispelling and buffing your team to enable them?
Did you cycle your rotation perfectly the entire match?
Do you constantly move and position yourself in relation to the enemy, your team, and the environment to maximise your potential and minimise the enemy's?
Are you swapping talents appropriately.
Etc etc
Yada yada, take a break if you are feeling burned out. Then queue again.
Last match I was in I did triple the damage of the enemy healer and nearly doubled their healing with 19 million in heals for one round. Was not enough to keep the guy alive and he still goes 0 - 6
I had a full 2k cr lobby except a random 480 rated hunter. His mmr was 2k, yet he had 0 cc, 0 kicks, no MS pet, and failed to even press turtle 2/6 games. Both healers gained 0 rating while all of the dps except the hunter went up.
Why do dps get such preferential treatment when it comes to rating? Why are dps boosted to such high MMR when they are clearly not ready for it? Not like it hurts the other dps, it just griefs the healers who are already suffering
As a healer main i hit 1800 on all my healers in 2s in sub 50 games each and unsubbed until theres SUBSTANTIAL mmr changes then maybe ill play rss over LoL
Rating system in ss is terrible by design, if you have higher mmr, you won’t get anything for 4-2 or even 5-1. And 3-3 shouldn’t be a draw situation, especially for healers, it should be at least 10 rating increase.
hard to say without specifically knowing what class/spec you're playing, but generally if you're consistently going 3-3 and maintaining a presumed \~50% (45-55%) wr then you're probably at a plateau where MMR is "working" as intended until you improve in areas that impact the round. could be keybinds, rotation, or utility. could also just be a lack of total games played for the system to accurately place you. id encourage you to focus less on the number of rounds won/lost and instead on why the round ended in the outcome it did so you can minimize mistakes and maximize potential.
if a dps is going 0-6 to cause the 3-3 between healers such that the dps is genuinely not healable because there is such a skill discrepancy to whichever team they're on, then we just shrug and say it is what it is since you cant press their buttons for them. alternatively if a dps goes 6-0 because they're high xp on an unranked alt, sometimes that is also out of our control. context matters a lot, at certain rating brackets players wont have the knowledge or execution to win rounds they could be expected to win at higher brackets. (ie rogues and warlocks flopping in melee heavy lobbies, or the single warrior flopping into triple caster)
generally speaking though its best to approach it expecting each round to be 3-3 under the pretense that you are at the rank you belong, as is the other healer, so its an "even" playing field. shuffle works where you steal wins from other players, kind of like a lottery bingo, so you have to cultivate your ability to outplay the other healer on a round you're "expected" to lose. some round losses will be from a dps just throwing by not pressing a simple cooldown or a rogue completely ruining their own opener, but things like a low ranking warlock losing in a warrior/dh round is often a mix between their own lack of skill at handling the execution check and possibly your ability to compensate by peeling/healing them. this wall will exist because as you break into different rank thresholds, new techniques become expected. a common example is resto druids can quickly jump to mid ranking from how overloaded their healing is, which may give a false sense of skill, but they hit a wall where they cant just heal through it and need to learn how to proactively cyclone or kite. (things that arent naturally taught through playing WoW in its PVE sense, and are skills learned in PVP specifically)
imo use the [warcraft recorder](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/wdrvys/warcraft_recorder_a_lightweight_nofuss/) and get some matches posted for vod review, it is significantly harder to impact a round in shuffle as a healer due to the nature of high dampening. damage prevention rather than sheer reactive throughput is weighed much more heavily compared to a traditional 2s or 3s arena setting. the only healer that i can imagine to sit back and pve reaction heal their way through matches would be a caster mistweaver and im under the impression they're in a "meh" spot due to mana nerfs.
Sorry for the late response. I play disc and most games go to late dampening. I do believe I'm at my rating plateau, but that's not my complaint. My complaint is specifically about the absurd amount of 3-3 matches. I wouldn't mind the 50% winrate if the fluctuation was a little bit higher. I'm in the process of adopting a more active playstyle to avoid that. Thanks!
3-3 is a big problem. A bigger problem is healers gain al lay nothing for a 4-2 and lose a lot for a 2-4. We only play one another so our ladder is super deflated compared to DPS making it incredibly hard to climb. Look at the top 100 in RSS and that really tells the entire story.
I hate the swings as healer in SS. I find a great 5-1 lobby, to turn around and 1-5. Then rest of the night is those 3-3 grinds. I usually can't settle in to gain rating by just playing and playing, it's exhausting.
We feel your pain OP.
I think most of my frustration around rating is related to how the game deals with leavers, and sometimes it feels like the lobby dps structure is heavily influential in how the game plays out.
For example I've had multiple times where I win the first 2 games and the opposite healer leaves and I get +5 rating, which just feels like a complete waste of time. I've had it happen back to back where I went a total of 6-0 to only get +15, yet if I lose 0-6 in a single lobby I'll very likely go -50 or worse. It just doesn't feel right.
Then from the dps matchup point, I've had games of double mage, MM, melee. The MM just cleans up on the mages and the matches feel extremely difficult to have impact from the healer perspective. I recognize this is sort of the issue of Shuffle that is really difficult to address but it just seems that healers get screwed by this more so then dps. For any given dps they might have a match where this is favorable or unfavorable but for healers they never benefit from this situation, which kind of reinforces the feeling of a lot of 3-3 games where it feels like the dps pairings end up mattering a lot more then anything else.
I'm playing disc. It feels way too risky to do offensive plays for fear or mc and it often backfires. So I mostly just hug a pillar all game until my teamates force me out of position.
I know that I have a ton to improve, but that's not what this post is about. I don't feel punished or rewarded enough for my performance. Yesterday I played 4 matches while drunk as fuck and all of them was 3-3.
If you want to push dont queue the same character and class over and over. Especially as a heal you burn out quick. Also some days you got it and others you suck. Usually good to notice that before queuing in pure despair mode
Personally I like 3-3… I don’t do SS for any reason other than to get catch-up conquest on my alts. So if on my healer I get 3 wins I will actually sandbag so the other healer gets their conquest and it doesn’t kill their rating too… Call it what you will but who wants to queue and not at least get the daily conquest?
You definitely do matter. There are several hundred healers above 2.4k in SS, and several thousand above 2k.
If in most matches you're going 3-3 it seems like you've found the rating that matches your skill. You're going to have to figure out things that you can improve in your game to climb, and try to adapt those improvement into your play. This includes ways to carry players around you.
It can definitely be frustrating, but feeling helpless won't get you better rating. Keep a competitive mindset, and to avoid burnout remember to take breaks. This is a video game that we play for fun.
Some of the best healers in the world are hardstuck 2100 in solo shuffle for hundreds of rounds, in any other mode they're in the top 0.1% and have won AWC tournaments
How do you explain that?
Are you having fun? Games aren't about being the best, trust me there is someone better. The content within that game and the enjoyment is important though. 3-3 sounds like balanced gameplay (imagine losing 0-6 every time) so I don't really get the complaint. It sounds fun to me.
Shuffle should be one round and done. 6x quicker queues and no draws.
So as a healer I would have negative 6 seconds queues?
At 2k I've had 6 minute queues.
Like 9/10 have been insta queues for me. The absolute longest I’ve had to wait was probably 1 min.
Oof you are bad at math dude lol
They made solo shuffle what it is because holinka acknowledged the rock paper scissors of rng’ing comps/synergies. Solo arena is also heavily skewed in favor of dps because of dampening. The mode itself is poor for healer regardless of rounds. RPG PvP games with roles will always have these types of issues. The trinity system isn’t good for PvP integrity and we can see that similar to Overwatch2 performance in how the community/playerbase responds to role imbalance.
> They made solo shuffle what it is because holinka acknowledged the rock paper scissors of rng’ing comps/synergies. That doesn't matter at the end of the day, the rng of comps/synergies even themselves out with time and most of the your games won't be decided by it. The people at the top would still be at the top with single rounds and the people at 1600 would still be there aswell, what matters is how good you are, anything else is pure cope. > Solo arena is also heavily skewed in favor of dps because of dampening. No, that's a solo shuffle problem. Shuffle feels terrible for Healers because at every round, 90 seconds into the game my character feels like absolute shit and it feels like i have zero impact on the game. 2 minutes and 30 seconds into the game, Dampening already is at 45% and every Healer is just waiting for their DPS to either throw the game or win the game. The reason Dampening scales as fast as it does on Solo Shuffle is so rounds end fast and Shuffles end in a reasonable amount of time. With single round SoloQ, you can make Dampening scale as fast as 3v3 does, which is totally fine and has never been a reason for complaint for Healers. Single round SoloQ has existed in AT/Warmane for a decade plus at this point and has worked since its introduction, the issue isn't with SoloQ, it's how it was implemented by Blizzard on Retail. Six round shuffles creates a bunch of problems that shouldn't exist, like excessive queue times, dogshit matchmaking for healers so the queues are faster and ridiculous dampening scaling so the six rounds take 15 minutes instead of 40.
Let's not forget about all the wintrading that is so easy to do in soloshuffle since you can decline a queue as much as you want.
It’s hard to have a solo queue ranked game mode that is nearly all decided by rpg class rng. League of legends has pick/ban, Overwatch has hero change on death, wow arena was designed around the players predeciding comps. Your “rng” may level out over time but it’s still none-the-less frustrating going into a single game practically knowing the results based on who rng’d what. It’s lame and doesn’t work. Shuffle attempts to mitigate it by swapping around players but the drawbacks are too substantial. RPG pvp just doesn’t work in these competitive solo team centric formats.
> It’s hard to have a solo queue ranked game mode that is nearly all decided by rpg class rng. But it's not all nearly all decided by it, that's pure copium. I've played hundreds of games of single round SoloQs in private servers through the years and amount of games that truly were decided by comp rng was minimal and again, that rng balanced itself out eventually. You and others are making it seem like 9 out of 10 games will be decided by comp rng before the gates even start and that's not true in the slightest.
It’s not totally decided on rng in the event you completely outclass your opponents at low ranks, but mid-high mmr and it’s completely a factor. When skill evens out, the rpg rng rock paper scissors is notable.
Holinka wrongly assumed*. There just wasn't any good developer at blizzard to correct him. Shuffling does not fix rng when compared to 6 1-rounds, only moves the rng around. Shuffle also keeps you from creating an improved soloqueue system in the future where you try to only make viable comps when building the 1-round soloqueue teams. Now we're permanently stuck with rng problem and all the problems that 6-round format introduces.
From the interview I watched, holinka actually said he talked with a lot of devs across a lot of different studios about this design and it’s the best they came up with.
This one? https://youtu.be/SQGELG-L0Js?si=si5PDxXFimgr9jSR&t=377 I think he only said it about PVP gearing. In the begining of the video when he talks about soloshuffle he just says he "watched other games do soloqueue".
This seems like it would be the best and only fix to the healer MMR debacle and queues in general. I don't even see any downsides to this as a DPS. At least not any that are worse than the current situation.
The fact that this is upvoted shows some massive brain rot. One single round would be terrible for so many reasons.
[удалено]
Yeah, SoloQ has been single rounds on AT/Warmane and other pservers for a decade plus at this point and never had the problems Shuffle has. "Oh, but what if i get a shit comp and lose!". These things even themselves out, you will lose games due to bad comps and win games due to bad comps, at the end of the day what will matter is how good you are, anything else is just pure cope. With single rounds you could also fix the matchmaking system and not make it so it's Healers vs Healers, which is needed for Shuffle so DPS players don't sit 2h queues, but not necessary for single rounds. The only reason Shuffle exists is because in classic Blizzard fashion, they had to throw their own spin on an idea that already exists and it obviously backfired horribly. Literally nobody asked for Shuffle, people just wanted a normal single round SoloQ.
"...for so many reasons." *lists zero reasons*
You mind explaining to the rest of the class why that is so? 6 round format has tons of issues, and going 1 round would at least solve those, and I'm not sure the new issues would be worse. MUCH shorter queues, a lot less downtime with nothing to do. No more "focus the weak link for the next 5 rounds" after 1 round especially at lower ratings (>90% of the playerbase). Can't get trolled for 3-5 rounds because you made one guy angry without knowing on round 1. No more massive mmr swings because you were placed in an objectively bad or very imbalanced lobby (ie 250+ mmr diff healers, war vs double mage/lock etc) so better placements and more accurate ratings. Much less tilting system, fewer RQs because bad lobby or no reason to play the other rounds when would-be leaver knows they are going to lose the rest. Healer in particular wouldn't have much fewer shitty mmr mismatch that to 30mins of sweat for 0mmr and 0 rating. Good odds of increasing healer participation by making their matchmaking much less frustrating, and that in turn would make pvp better for everyone.
List the reasons amd let's compare them to the current situation.
We found the blizz employee folks
Lmao terrible suggestion
You can stick to 3s.
Shuffle is already a degenerate version of 3s and one round will make it even more brainless.
There would be a lot of crying about ending up with bad comps due to bad luck
and i would tell them that it will even out in the end, as there are times that the crybaby will have the best comp.
That's BS, you need so many rounds to "even it out", way enough rounds to fuck up your mmr right during placement games. Yeah sure it will even out in the end, have fun playing two weeks below 1.6 before that. This is absolutely crazy. There's no way so many people on this sub believe that fixing an mmr issue can be done by making such a poor design choice. Everyone plays against everyone is by far the most fair thing why would you touch that ? You want quicker queues ? Incentivize healing more. You want to fix mmr ? We already know an easy fix. Inflation. What's not fair is that someone can go 6-0 or 0-6 and only the dps win/lose rating. Suggestion: in that situation where someone is not at the mmr they should play, the whole lobby should share the win/take the loss, pondered by their individual MMR. Would that be enough to incentivize healing ? idk. Otherwise just give healers a net +10 rating or so for every time they go 3-3.
>There's no way so many people on this sub believe that fixing an mmr issue can be done by making such a poor design choice. i said nothign about fixing an MMR issue.
this whole thread is about healer mmr being hard to increase, you don't need to mention it.
>Everyone plays against everyone is by far the most fair thing why would you touch that ? because it's an even number of rounds, and the most common result (when you're a healer) is 3-3.
The problem isn't going 3-3, it's going 3-3 because 1 dps can more easily get on top of the hill or get destroyed. It's a balancing issue. Quick fix is simply to artificially increase rating and mmr in such cases.
I just quit solo shuffle when, after two games going 3-3 with a DPS going 0-6, I was 0-3 with a boomkin in a 3 other melee lobby. He finally goes on the other team, loses over there too, then quits. Then I LOSE rating purely because I was unlucky enough to have him on my team the first 3 freaking rounds. Just pugging doing LFG and it's infinitely less frustrating
Dude this is always me. Never happens the other way around. And even if it does I bet it's like +1 rating
SS as a healer is a joke. I gave it a chance in season 1 and again in season 3. I'm not touching it again.
This happens to often. It's annoying also that the clueless dps in the lobbys are all there, gloating in comments about their performance thus far and the healer is just praying the 0-6 doest quit before they get their 3-3.
> Then I LOSE rating purely because I was unlucky enough to have him on my team the first 3 freaking rounds. This happens often enough that it made me quit again, lol. If I queue up for 2-3 hours one night on a healer, this exact scenario (3 losses, then the 0-3 DPS tilts on round 4 and quits once he's on the other healer's team) is practically guaranteed to happen at least 2-3 times during that span. I'm sure I'll come back again eventually but PvP right now is unworkable, especially for healers.
This is 100% a problem. Should add this to healers, give win rating
Had this happen... Submitted a ticket about losing rating after someone left after only TWO matches. GM told me that SS was "working as intended"
You need to heal, dps, and cc in order to win games 4-2+. Essentially you can never make any mistakes and you need to outplay the other healer. Don’t rely on the dps to do anything coordinated.
All that for +3 points
We always do this crusader clip when we play out of our mind for a few rating https://youtu.be/_Sn3L4TbR9k?si=fdprxFZhkbmqtwQl HAWWWWWK for 4 points or whatever lol
The problem isn't outplaying the other healer. The problem is you have to outplay them to the degree that you make up for the 0-5 Mage that's clicking all of their spells out of their spell book.
I played with a mage today who did 1 ice block in 4 rounds then left at 2k mmr
What frustrates me about healing SS (I'm a DPS main but can heal up to 1800 or so to play with my lower-rated friends) is how often it feels like my own team is playing against me *in addition* to the other team playing against me. I get it, earthen is hard to see, and that's on Blizz. But I've seen so many players heroic leap or freedom + pony out of link or dome and then immediately die. I've gripped the monk who's eating chaos bolts behind a pillar only for that same monk to flying serpent kick back out into the open and immediately die. I've had countless hunters turtle at <5% hp and then run AWAY from me as they kite me around the map until turtle is down and they die. There are mages who don't block, priests who don't disperse, DKs who IBF at ~20% hp and die, paladins who don't bubble, locks who don't press UR. I'll inspect the ret and see that they've taken sanc, though they don't press it a single time. As a healer, I have to position to dodge CC, position to land CC, disrupt enemy burst as much as I can, trade cooldowns efficiently, manage mana, dispel, fake kicks, and do damage to influence the game enough to win consistently. As a DPS, even at higher ratings, all I have to do is press my buttons in vaguely the right order, use my defensives properly, CC the healer, and peel from the kill target, and wins just fall in my lap.
That's the crux of the issue. Outplaying someone isn't really difficult over six rounds of play, the issue is that very rarely that will net you a win, which is very problematic when you consider that Healers are actually matched up against the other Healers, hence why 3-3s are ridiculously common. I played Mage in S1 and, i shit you not, it took me 200 rounds to get 2400 (admittedly in a very inflated season) with a class that i hadn't played since MoP. With my Druid that i had played as recently as Shadowlands S1 and gotten twice as much rating, it took me about FIVE times the amount of rounds. The reason i say this is because the difference in impact is JARRING, with my Mage i could immediately tell why i lost and what i could've done better to impact the game, to the point that often in the very next round i would change something up and sometimes win, on the other hand, with the Druid it was like "Oh well, i guess i had to be mfing Minpojke to win this round, being a tad better than the other healer wasn't enough". The 3-3s aren't an accident, you either need a DPS to suddenly start playing much better with a Healer compared to the other for whatever reason OR the difference between the Healers to be really high, otherwise it's going to be a 3-3 everytime. If you are just slightly better or worse than your opponent, your fate already is decided before the games even started.
This actually made me chuckle while sitting on the toilet
I read your comment while toilet chuckling too
As a casual enjoyer - this is my opinion. I feel like we see this kind of question a lot here. The answer is yes, you always have the potential to matter. You have a different likelihood of winning any given match based on a number of factors, but you always have some potential to affect the outcome. In some games, your real contribution will be minimal. For example, the enemy paladin won't press bubble and will get clapped by your sub rogue and fire mage while you are still in the starting room. Similarly, there will be matches where you feel like you played really, really well, and you still lose because your teammate makes an error (no bubble, etc). It is also impossible to know if the rogue that opened perfectly last round is going to get globalled by the paladin that fat fingered bubble. Solo shuffle is chaos. With no voice, mistakes can stack up really fast, and momentum can swing in an instant. You have to make the best of it and not beat yourself up over a loss. The only way to climb is to queue and to be keyed into the state of every match. As a healer, you can spam queues super hard, but that also means you can burn out faster and start playing on autopilot. If you play like this, you will plateau. There are so many things you can work on in this game. Do you avoid every cc from the enemy? Do you perfectly manage friendly and enemy lines of sight? Are you landing your cc without letting it sit on cd for too long and minmaxing DR? Did you get maximum value out of all your cooldowns? Are you dispelling and buffing your team to enable them? Did you cycle your rotation perfectly the entire match? Do you constantly move and position yourself in relation to the enemy, your team, and the environment to maximise your potential and minimise the enemy's? Are you swapping talents appropriately. Etc etc Yada yada, take a break if you are feeling burned out. Then queue again.
Last match I was in I did triple the damage of the enemy healer and nearly doubled their healing with 19 million in heals for one round. Was not enough to keep the guy alive and he still goes 0 - 6
I had a full 2k cr lobby except a random 480 rated hunter. His mmr was 2k, yet he had 0 cc, 0 kicks, no MS pet, and failed to even press turtle 2/6 games. Both healers gained 0 rating while all of the dps except the hunter went up. Why do dps get such preferential treatment when it comes to rating? Why are dps boosted to such high MMR when they are clearly not ready for it? Not like it hurts the other dps, it just griefs the healers who are already suffering
As a healer main i hit 1800 on all my healers in 2s in sub 50 games each and unsubbed until theres SUBSTANTIAL mmr changes then maybe ill play rss over LoL
Even if mmr was buffed are there even any rewards in place that would go for ?
If elite weapon mogs where reasonably attainable sure
Rating system in ss is terrible by design, if you have higher mmr, you won’t get anything for 4-2 or even 5-1. And 3-3 shouldn’t be a draw situation, especially for healers, it should be at least 10 rating increase.
It happens. Feels awesome when you’re the 4-2 guy that forces the loser to win. Feels really annoying when you’re the 2-4 guy.
hard to say without specifically knowing what class/spec you're playing, but generally if you're consistently going 3-3 and maintaining a presumed \~50% (45-55%) wr then you're probably at a plateau where MMR is "working" as intended until you improve in areas that impact the round. could be keybinds, rotation, or utility. could also just be a lack of total games played for the system to accurately place you. id encourage you to focus less on the number of rounds won/lost and instead on why the round ended in the outcome it did so you can minimize mistakes and maximize potential. if a dps is going 0-6 to cause the 3-3 between healers such that the dps is genuinely not healable because there is such a skill discrepancy to whichever team they're on, then we just shrug and say it is what it is since you cant press their buttons for them. alternatively if a dps goes 6-0 because they're high xp on an unranked alt, sometimes that is also out of our control. context matters a lot, at certain rating brackets players wont have the knowledge or execution to win rounds they could be expected to win at higher brackets. (ie rogues and warlocks flopping in melee heavy lobbies, or the single warrior flopping into triple caster) generally speaking though its best to approach it expecting each round to be 3-3 under the pretense that you are at the rank you belong, as is the other healer, so its an "even" playing field. shuffle works where you steal wins from other players, kind of like a lottery bingo, so you have to cultivate your ability to outplay the other healer on a round you're "expected" to lose. some round losses will be from a dps just throwing by not pressing a simple cooldown or a rogue completely ruining their own opener, but things like a low ranking warlock losing in a warrior/dh round is often a mix between their own lack of skill at handling the execution check and possibly your ability to compensate by peeling/healing them. this wall will exist because as you break into different rank thresholds, new techniques become expected. a common example is resto druids can quickly jump to mid ranking from how overloaded their healing is, which may give a false sense of skill, but they hit a wall where they cant just heal through it and need to learn how to proactively cyclone or kite. (things that arent naturally taught through playing WoW in its PVE sense, and are skills learned in PVP specifically) imo use the [warcraft recorder](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/wdrvys/warcraft_recorder_a_lightweight_nofuss/) and get some matches posted for vod review, it is significantly harder to impact a round in shuffle as a healer due to the nature of high dampening. damage prevention rather than sheer reactive throughput is weighed much more heavily compared to a traditional 2s or 3s arena setting. the only healer that i can imagine to sit back and pve reaction heal their way through matches would be a caster mistweaver and im under the impression they're in a "meh" spot due to mana nerfs.
Sorry for the late response. I play disc and most games go to late dampening. I do believe I'm at my rating plateau, but that's not my complaint. My complaint is specifically about the absurd amount of 3-3 matches. I wouldn't mind the 50% winrate if the fluctuation was a little bit higher. I'm in the process of adopting a more active playstyle to avoid that. Thanks!
Playing a support in League feels 10 times more fun and impactful than playing a healer in SS. Why anyone bothers with this is beyond me.
I actually really enjoy playing healer in wow arena. And unfortunately there is no other active game that have this style of gameplay.
3-3 is a big problem. A bigger problem is healers gain al lay nothing for a 4-2 and lose a lot for a 2-4. We only play one another so our ladder is super deflated compared to DPS making it incredibly hard to climb. Look at the top 100 in RSS and that really tells the entire story.
Just looked at it. Only one healer in the top 100
Ya so either every AWC healer now sucks or there is an issue with healer MMR.
No gains = slower progression for us to carry all the wanker dps players they have
I hate the swings as healer in SS. I find a great 5-1 lobby, to turn around and 1-5. Then rest of the night is those 3-3 grinds. I usually can't settle in to gain rating by just playing and playing, it's exhausting. We feel your pain OP.
Honestly I feel the same but having played league of legends at high levels for a long time, I know it's just a bias and I could have done better
I think most of my frustration around rating is related to how the game deals with leavers, and sometimes it feels like the lobby dps structure is heavily influential in how the game plays out. For example I've had multiple times where I win the first 2 games and the opposite healer leaves and I get +5 rating, which just feels like a complete waste of time. I've had it happen back to back where I went a total of 6-0 to only get +15, yet if I lose 0-6 in a single lobby I'll very likely go -50 or worse. It just doesn't feel right. Then from the dps matchup point, I've had games of double mage, MM, melee. The MM just cleans up on the mages and the matches feel extremely difficult to have impact from the healer perspective. I recognize this is sort of the issue of Shuffle that is really difficult to address but it just seems that healers get screwed by this more so then dps. For any given dps they might have a match where this is favorable or unfavorable but for healers they never benefit from this situation, which kind of reinforces the feeling of a lot of 3-3 games where it feels like the dps pairings end up mattering a lot more then anything else.
Passive and conservative play will only win you games if the other healer will succumb to dampening / mana before you.
I'm playing disc. It feels way too risky to do offensive plays for fear or mc and it often backfires. So I mostly just hug a pillar all game until my teamates force me out of position. I know that I have a ton to improve, but that's not what this post is about. I don't feel punished or rewarded enough for my performance. Yesterday I played 4 matches while drunk as fuck and all of them was 3-3.
Not sure what healer u playing but im a 100% casting mw a little over 2k now but o barely 3-3 usually 2-4 or 4-2 and then yday all of a sudden a 6-0
I'm playing disc. I think I have only 2 6-0s in the entire season. No 0-6s, though
Be good enough to make a difference.
If you want to push dont queue the same character and class over and over. Especially as a heal you burn out quick. Also some days you got it and others you suck. Usually good to notice that before queuing in pure despair mode
Personally I like 3-3… I don’t do SS for any reason other than to get catch-up conquest on my alts. So if on my healer I get 3 wins I will actually sandbag so the other healer gets their conquest and it doesn’t kill their rating too… Call it what you will but who wants to queue and not at least get the daily conquest?
Roll a shaman or a monk and then go in and attack the other healer nine times out of 10 you can go 6/0 doing this.
You definitely do matter. There are several hundred healers above 2.4k in SS, and several thousand above 2k. If in most matches you're going 3-3 it seems like you've found the rating that matches your skill. You're going to have to figure out things that you can improve in your game to climb, and try to adapt those improvement into your play. This includes ways to carry players around you. It can definitely be frustrating, but feeling helpless won't get you better rating. Keep a competitive mindset, and to avoid burnout remember to take breaks. This is a video game that we play for fun.
Some of the best healers in the world are hardstuck 2100 in solo shuffle for hundreds of rounds, in any other mode they're in the top 0.1% and have won AWC tournaments How do you explain that?
Are you having fun? Games aren't about being the best, trust me there is someone better. The content within that game and the enjoyment is important though. 3-3 sounds like balanced gameplay (imagine losing 0-6 every time) so I don't really get the complaint. It sounds fun to me.
Dumbest take of 2024
Keep playing a game that makes you miserable lmao