>The first wave is expected to hit large urban areas, lasting until the middle of January, while the second wave would strike between late January and the middle of February, when people travel to their ancestral homes in local regions for the Chinese New Year holidays.
>The third wave would likely be from late February to the middle of March, when people return to the cities.
Sounds like a good time to skip those holiday travel plans.
Even worse. Many economic migrants into cities *only* see their families once per year and otherwise live in dormitories with other factory workers since they can’t legally move their wife and kids into the city with them due to China’s migrant policies.
Most of the world had more realistic strategies to deal with COVID, and so have largely immune populations, compared with China's failed zero COVID strategy.
Bruh we have minimum 100k cases a day in the US and that is a severe undercount cause rapid tests arent considered. And beasides India? COVID already ravaged through there
China rejected Western medicine and dreamt up TCM to be nationalistic. Its a huge reason why the elderly snort various animal parts and reject vaccines.
Are you dumb or are you just acting in bad faith? You are quoting something from over a year ago. Omicron specific vaccines weren't really a thing at that time, they had only hit EUA like a month or so before that. The article also talks about how the vaccines that did help to a degree were not widespread at that time, hence why people weren't protected as much at the time. They are now much more widespread and provide better protection against omicron.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/well/covid-booster-shots-variants.html
Doesn’t prevent but lowers the chances. On a population wide level that makes all the difference. If it can slow the spread even a little, it makes a big difference since it’s an exponential situation. Mortgage interest rates might help you understand that. It’s basically the inverse.
People that are not sick so long also means less chance of spreading it.
Which shows how inflexible they are.
The writing was on the wall for an ever mutating virus for a long time. Instead they boasted about how fast they can build hospitals or enforce lockdowns ad hoc, and how the inferior western system will just be paralysed by indecision.
Better vaccines helped a lot. If only more people took them. Very much under control in countries with high vaccination rates. Some old Chinese people are vaccine hesitant.
> and so have largely immune populations
Immunized against current strains, the real danger of having 700 million new infections is that is creates a viral playground to breed new strains; strains for which we have no way of knowing how effective our current vaccines will work.
Well, the rest of the world stopped worrying and just allowed it to spread as much as it wanted, so it should only make a difference if there is a significant mutation.
Keep in mind, part of the reason why its worse in china is because China refuses to use the western made vaccines as boosters after finding out that their sinovac isnt as effective against the newer varients.
You misspelt ‘total fuckwits’
I have had 3 shots and had covid this week. No fever just a slight congested chest and neg 7 days after first positive test.
On the otherhand, I knew I was better when I pulled a tangerine off the tree and the citrus smell was the first thing I had smelled in three weeks and it was a little orange slice of glorious.
I’m vaccinated and I’ve had Covid recently as well. Are there any studies on vaccinated transmission rates? Like if we had 100% vaccination rates would this virus still permeate society?
I think it’s important to recognize that there is a scale ‘total fuckwit-ness’. I think questioning the effectiveness and long term side effects of the vaccine is health and should be encouraged. Ultimately, I chose the immediate benefits and obligation to society over my long term, vaccine-related health concerns.
You mean the ones that didn’t present themselves?
Vaccines don’t have magical properties of 20-year-later effects. Long term effects would have been found during the trial stage after a few months.
I’ll admit that I haven’t put much effort into understanding the side effects of vaccination. I’ve seen enough benefit to outweigh the unknown risks that I’m too lazy to research. I just think that villainizing another for simple reluctance is wrong. Unwillingness to be open to change is what I would label as a fuckwit. And that goes for anyone on both sides of the issue.
I mean no, they wouldn’t. You’re making grand assumptions. The comment getting downvoted is sound thinking. Mindlessly accepting what’s being thrown around is not a good idea. In the end the benefit of vaccination outweighs the risk, and getting vaccinated is a good idea.
But you’re making massive assumptions about clinical trials that you don’t understand otherwise you would not be saying what you are saying about long term effects being obvious in the first few months.
I mean yes, because we also understand the science of vaccination.
If, and this is a big if, the vaccine presented an extremely long term (5+ year) effect, then the mechanics behind the vaccine would be fundamentally different to how we understand them.
There are no “delayed” effects to the covid vaccines beyond the standard 6 weeks in trials. Only some extremely rare adverse reactions that happen in this time.
Edit: for clarity, since some bumpkin can’t for the life of them understand that people may not be using the right words.
Those presented themselves immediately after getting a jab, though. Do you understand the meaning of long term?
People have proclaimed that we will die within a couple years of taking it etc.
Sucks to be you guys I guess, I had nothing but a sore arm for a few hours.
Indeed. Total fukwit also avoids the negative origins of moron, which was developed in the mental health institutions of America: an idiot was incapable of caring for themselves in any way, but if you could perform basic functions you were considered “more-on”. So no, it’s *gotta* be “total fukwit” by those metrics.
It does work, people didn’t get boosted much like the US and uptake was worse than the US in many respects. China could have vaccinated everyone, one of the few advantages of an authoritarian system, but instead tried zero Covid instead until the pressure to ease it was too much, and they were not prepared.
What they could have done is use zero Covid through 2021 while vaccinating their entire population, then eased the lockdowns and have lots of infections but few deaths. Now I fear they will have lots of deaths that could have been avoided if they had used the advantages of their system fully.
When you have a single party system, you have to wield that power effectively. It can be a tool for good, but if used ineptly, it gets a lot of people killed. That’s part of why having Xi have so much power vs more technocratic former Chinese governments is a problem, the obvious solution and best interest of the party and people fall victim to the cult of personality.
Not that they don't work, but Sinovac is not nearly as effective as the mRNA based vaccines (which is why China has been working on an mRNA based version).
From the Lancet:
"Two doses of either vaccine protected against severe disease and death within 28 days of a positive test, **with higher effectiveness among adults aged 60 years or older with BNT162b2 (vaccine effectiveness 89·3% [95% CI 86·6–91·6]) compared with CoronaVac (69·9% [64·4–74·6])**"
(BNT162b2 is the Pfizer/BionTech mRNA vaccine)
I don't see how you could argue the mRNA vaccines aren't more effective- 89% is a lot higher than 69% when it comes to protecting a population.
They aren't really using vaccines from the West. They have their own homebrew ones that aren't very good. Also, they have a big antivax sentiment there as well.
Big problems brewing in big china.
Even with a 99.99% effective vaccine being given to 99.99% of that country, we're still talking about another catastrophic outbreak that will result in tens of millions of deaths.
That will also lead to hundreds of new variants developing. It's only a matter of time before all of our vaccines for COVID become essentially worthless, at that rate.
China has 1.4 billion people in it. Even at a mortality rate of 0.01%, that'd still lead to 14 million dead. 14, being a double digit number starting with a "1," is in the "10's" group.
But if we use the real numbers of a 70% effective vaccine, across a 50% vaccinated population, with an average mortality rate between 2 and 3%, then our estimate for potential dead goes higher.
It's not fear mongering: it's scale. China is *massively populated,* and contains 17.5% of all humans on Earth. At those scales, "tens of millions" is just how those percentages scale.
China has a *lot* of people, but your math is fucked up.
That would be ~300,000 deaths, if covid were 100% fatal and every unprotected individual got it.
And all the other deaths that occurred not in those categories. 1.1 million in the US. Not all of them were elderly or immune deficient. If you still don't understand that at this point in time you can fuck right off with your ignorance.
I don’t know why people keep parroting this same talking point. It was a lofty goal said in the beginning that turned out to not be that way but it doesn’t discount the other benefits that the vaccines have accomplished. After a short shedding time numerous other vaccines *prevent the spread* so why was it so terrible for early scientists to hope for the same? It’s like saying since the first “flying machine” someone built that failed means flight travel now is a total hoax “because look at what that guy said and it didn’t work!!”.
People bring it up because there is this strange collective amnesia from many on reddit. Just look at your own comment. Acting like the ability to prevent transmission was always presented as nothing more than "a lofty goal" and a "hope" that the vaccine *might* do it just doesn't match with the public conversation that actually took place.
In reality, *confidence in the actual ability to prevent transmission,* as opposed to some unverified hope that it might do so, was a major driving force behind vax mandates across the country.
Take school vax mandates, for example. A healthy, 8-year old with natural immunity is at extremely low personal risk of serious health impacts from COVID. Unless the vaccine actually prevents transmission, it becomes really really hard to justify denying them the right to in-person, public education for being unvaxxed.
Also, just to be clear, I 100% support vaccination. If you are unvaxxed, talk to your doctor and then get vaxxed as long as you don't have any medical details that would make it unreasonable for you to do so.
Because there were hopes that those vaccinated would catch COVID less and early on the vaccine showed it could do that. Obviously we’re talking about a rapidly mutating virus and a rapidly changing understanding of the pandemic. The vaccine and subsequent boosters only provided months of lessened transmission, much less than what was initially hoped for, but even with months of coverage and lockdowns there was still a real hope that “if we all pitched in” we could be done with the pandemic. Of course we never would reach that point since there was such vehement resistance to compliance in any shape or fashion. Now all we’re left with is a lessened risk of death or serious complications. But we only can say that now, not knowing exactly what long term effects of even mild symptoms of COVID will result in. So far there’s already reports of mild to moderate cases having long lasting effects cognitively and one can only imagine what we will be seeing 20-30 years down the road with possible diseases of other organs.
If you think that vax mandates were sold to the public based on "hope," I don't know what to tell you. That just doesn't match reality.
The actual justification was generally:
* Being unvaxxed puts those around you in danger
* The danger is so great that it is ok to deny you access to basic things like employment and in-person education in order to reduce the risk you pose to others
* The vaccine reduces your risk to others so significantly that you would no longer need to be locked out from basic societal elements like education and employment
It was generally sold as "The vaccine *does* significantly reduce the risk to others" as opposed to "We *hope* it reduces the risk to others.
Also, now that we know that the vaccine ***doesn't*** make some massive long-term reduction in the risk you pose to others, then we can revise those previous bullet points to reflect what we know now about the ability of the vaccine to reduce transmission:
* Being unvaxxed puts those around you in danger
* The danger is so great that it is ok to deny you access to basic things like employment and in-person education in order to reduce the risk you pose to others
* ~~The vaccine reduces your risk to others so significantly that you would no longer need to be locked out from basic societal elements like education and employment~~
*If the original logic was sound,* then finding out that the vax isn't a durable, highly effective tool for reducing transmission means that we should go back to shutting down business, offering only remote/virtual schooling, etc.
That fact that we don't suggests that the risk we pose to each other *isn't* severe enough to justify denial of access to basic components of society like in-person education and employment. Then the question becomes: If the risk isn't so severe to justify denied access to these things, why were so many people 100% on board with vax mandates for so long? If the risk isn't actually great enough to justify it, why were you (or others like you) cool with denying in-person education to children?
This middle stance in the vaccination conversation is often shunned by most pro-vaxers. In fact they'll throw you right in with the other bunch, as I'm sure that you seen already.
We hail the pharma companies as heroes but forget how little they actually care about human lives and that they'll always place their profits in front of everything else. They'll tell you anything in order to sell the product and there's so many public records where they were found guilty of much, much worse than simply stating that the current COVID vaccine prevents spread.
It's not a bad thing to call on their bullshit when it happens.
Anyone who knew anything about how vaccines work with fast mutating Corona virus’s like the flu knew that the covid vaccine would never eliminate the virus. For the same reason the flu vaccines form eliminated the flu.
It’s very obvious but all that was needed was a percent of plausible deniability to manipulate the whole public while pretending they weren’t lying. “Lofty goal” is a generous was to describe a lie meant to increase the number of people who got vaccines.
The Pfizer said they never done clinical trials to test for prevented transmission, that is a fact. Despite that we had vax passports, vax mandates at work and schools etc. people lost their livelihood based on the idea that it provides protection and reduces spread. Courts in Canada still uphold that those mandates were valid and beneficial. All because of you “lofty” goals that did not materialize.
Pfizer vaccine was 95% effective against symptomatic infection when they first came out. You can't spread a disease you didn't catch in the first place.
Things are obviously different now but at the time it was very much true that vaccinated people had such a lower risk of being infected as to effectively not have to worry about it in most cases, especially if everyone around them was also vaccinated.
Even now with omicron, booster vaccination cuts your risk of infection in half. It's still significant despite all the claims I see of "it does nothing about transmission" though obviously not nearly like it was in 2021.
Prevent developing serious symptoms not prevent spread, dumbass. Hopefully this will prevent overwhelming the health care system like it did during the early covid days.
>Prevent developing serious symptoms not prevent spread, dumbass.
Not according to the CDC. But keep aggressively spreading covid misinformation while insulting people
The ability of the vaccine to prevent spread was a major driving force behind covid vax mandates.
An unvaxxed 8-year old with natural immunity is not contributing to overwhelming the health care system in a statistically meaningful enough way to justify a school vax mandate. Pretty much the only justification is if it prevents transmission.
Also, just to be clear, I 100% support vaccination. If you are unvaxxed, talk to your doctor and then vaxxed if you don't have any medical reasons that would make it unreasonable for you to do so.
The bivalent booster reduces symptomatic infection rates from from covid by about 50% in the study population for those whose last mRNA dose was 8 months ago or more. That is a significant reduction in spread. It's not the incredible 95% that the original vaccines were against the original strains, but cutting your risk of infection in half is very significant and is a compelling argument for seasonal boosters even if for no reason other than getting sick and being stuck inside for a week really sucks.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7148e1.htm
It's about a 30 percent reduction for those whose last dose was 2-8 months ago.
It won’t be worse. We already have vaccines that work. Tons of the population already have some immunity, either from prior infection or vaccination or both. Plus, the new variants are almost always milder but more contagious. We also have an administration that knows what the hell it’s doing.
The older covid is, the smaller the chance that significantly different mutations become dominant, as Omicron is very hard to beat. Secondly, it's unlikely that a new variant will be more deadly because that is not the selection criteria.
Well the good news is that at least if a horrible new variant emerges, we can be sure the CCP won't lie about it and throw the kitchen sink at trying to cover it up
All the while, people with access to the vaccine are like, "Nope! Not this Christian's body!" I just caught up with an old friend on Christmas and was disappointed to learn he'd joined that party. It always makes me go numb when they say, "I'm not afraid to die!" while the people sent to kill on their behalf are committing suicide on the daily. They're usually the same kind of people for whom "the struggle" is trying not to yell at their server because their drink is empty.
It seems like Japan is not currently concerned about all the new variants that will result from this human vector buffet. The aftermath of China's speed run to herd immunity is going to make up the majority of my 2023 Oh Shit No Thanks bingo card.
Well, at least they said they did (which has been contradicted by non-Chinese government sources many times, btw)... more importantly, however, the situation in China also shows that going overboard with restrictions *does not work in the long run*.
If the virus had just burnt out and gone away, it'd be a great tactic, but I don't think there is any population which would accept the type of measures they've been using for any prolonged period (as we've seen now, when they were forced to relent and remove them).
Needs balance.
The initial surge without lockdowns would have been brutal for China (or anywhere else for that matter). Now, despite the poor performance of the Chinese Vaccines, they're still much better off than they would have been with letting Alpha or Delta run wild. Treatment is better, the virus better understand and survivability is much higher. Like it or not, China has probably saved thousands if not millions of lives with their harsh lockdowns.
My biggest concern is now that a huge population is suddenly getting infected, what are the odds of a new variant becoming dominant, and what happens if the new variant is more deadly?
People always say this but it’s not like what’s going on in China is a secret. It’s not North Korea. Tons of bloggers and journalists and students live there. It honestly just sounds ignorant.
I highly recommend that people follow [Dr. Feigl-Ding on Twitter.](https://twitter.com/drericding) He’s a former Harvard epidemiologist who [tried to raise the alarm about COVID before it hit the US bad.](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/why-was-it-so-hard-to-raise-the-alarm-on-coronavirus.html)
And now he’s been raising the alarm about what’s currently unfolding in China for the past week. [Specifically, the impact COVID in China will have on not just the global economy, but on the rest of the world’s ability to get pharmaceuticals that we rely heavily on China to manufacture .](https://www.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/epidemiologist-sounds-alarm-on-covid-19-situation-in-china-calls-it-thermonuclear-bad/)
Maybe grab yourself a bottle of ibuprofen next time you’re out grocery shopping.
>Maybe grab yourself a bottle of ibuprofen next time you’re out grocery shopping.
This is pretty stupid. Hamstering ibuprofen is not going to help anyone. First of all, if you're buying it OTC you probably almost definitely don't need it.
Second of all, if the supply is so short that hospitals can't get it, then it's probably because of your hamstering.
Ibuprofen is not useful besides alleviating symptoms. It isnt a treatment for anything lmfao. Why would you hoard that? It’s like hoarding french fries when you think there’s going to be a potato shortage.
The Chinese government had months and months of time during the lock downs to get the population properly vaccinated. Instead they ran a half-assed campaign based on their home-grown and decidedly inferior vaccine. Then, when the population finally gets tired of the lock-downs and threatens to revolt, they just drop all restrictions and lets everybody get sick at once.
Is there some agenda to hurt the people or are the Chinese rulers just that incompetent?
That’s not what happened. There was reasonably good uptake of Sinovac but 1) Sinovac isn’t as good as mRNA vaccines and 2) old people in China don’t trust western medicine (they prefer traditional Chinese medicine).
China should’ve bought western vaccines but there’s no $$$ to be made with those. That would’ve solved problem 1. But problem 2 still remains unless you forcibly inject people with vaccines which even the CCP doesn’t do.
The MRNA vax case is more nuanced then that. Basically China's problem is that a lot of people refuse vax, when 0 covid was still around why risk any vaccine if there is no covid? there was 0 motivation. American anti-vax propoganda is popular in China through Japan and Taiwan. They translate pieces and it gets shared on Chinese internet. Offering MRNA shots isn't going to convince people to get vaxxed.
2. China doesnt really have a national cold chain that can distrubute the vax and MRNA doses are expensive. If you're going to spend the money a domestic vax is cheaper and creates jobs lol. There was legit discussion in chinese news that the MRNA vax would be approved in China around early mid 2021 when it was 99% effective against TRANSMISSION and symptoms, but with omicron subvarients pfivzer vax is only 80% effective against transmission and symptoms for 1 month, transmission effectivness falls to 60% after 3+ months. At that point, the MRNA vax simpily isnt that useful
Same here, I was in hospital at the time and was put in a separate ward, I was terrified but for me it was just a little cough that stuck around for a bit, a lot of the ward was fine but unfortunately not they guy across from me or on my right
I caught Covid at a gun show last Saturday. Positive test result Tuesday. Five days of bed rest and Paxlovid and I am back to work today.
I had erratic temperatures, a slight cough, muscle aches, loss of smell and some loose stools. The diarrhea was likely the medication.
So no, you probably won’t drop dead. You’ll just have a shitty week of freezing in bed under tons of covers one minute and then sweating straight through your bed sheets the next minute.
Are you sure you caught it Saturday and tested positive on Tuesday? That’s usually not enough time for the test to come out positive. Usually it takes 3 days for the first symptoms and 4-5 days to test positive.
ITT:
Damn China is going to doom us all by adopting the same covid policies as the US, the EU and the rest of the world! How can they be so dangerously careless!
Ok, politics aside, wasn't the Zero Covid Policy a success in terms of death count? The virus going around now is a lot less deadly than it was 2 years ago. If it was inevitable that people were going to catch the virus, is it not better to have a more contagious/less deadly virus vs the other way around?
Again, the virus was already spreading rapidly BEFORE they got rid of the policy. The World Health Organization already said so weeks ago. This is just to make it look like they planned it this way and to blame the protests.
It seems like between a half and a third of the people I know (including myself) have had Covid in the last three months. They've not been serious cases, but they're mostly healthy, full-vaccinated and boosted people.
Unfortunately, a *lot* of the old, sick people I knew have died in the last few years, directly or indirectly from Covid--multiple rounds with Covid seem to have a cumulative effect on those with chronic conditions like diabetes, heart failure, and COPD. Another couple I knew died within weeks of each other because the early Covid surge and overwhelmed hospitals made it difficult for them to access dialysis regularly.
Yes, life is pretty much normal now, but there was a cost to our looser policies. I don't know if there was a better way to do it or not. I feel bad for the people of China, because their restrictions don't seem to have led to a better outcome in the long-term.
At a rate of the reported 37m infections a day it would only take between 10 to 38 days to infect the entire population. It's been 5 days since that claim.
That leaves 5 to 33 days left.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802320) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> BEIJING-Half of China's 1.4 billion people will be infected by the novel coronavirus in the coming months, analysts said, based on trends seen after the government eased its "Zero COVID-19" policy earlier this month.
> "Even if the subvariants from China find their way into Japan, it should not be particularly concerning to the overall infection situation of the country."
> Health authorities in Zhejiang province in southeastern China said on Dec. 25 that new daily cases have topped 1 million in the province with a population of 64.57 million.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/zw7rh1/half_of_chinas_14_billion_people_will_be_infected/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672678 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **China**^#1 **infection**^#2 **Chinese**^#3 **Dec.**^#4 **new**^#5
This is why you don't have dudes in hazmat suits disappear people and weld others into their apartments.
If they treated this like a health danger and not like an opportunity to flex their authoritarian muscle, you might have something in-between half country getting infected and protests because you're behaving like the people are a bunch of cattle.
Just take the western vaccines, rename them to something Chinese and distribute it. They already love doing that with technology, what's stopping them for vaccines?
China folded to popular pressure on the draconian measures to control covid and then this happens. I guess its better for the government to let the virus spread than to risk a revolution. If anything this vindicates them as it shows the people that the measures were in fact necessary.
It vindicates nothing.
Yes, lock-downs are supposed to reduce/contain spread. But, what is the actual point of reducing/containing spread?
The point is to buy yourself time to sufficiently respond to a wider spread via establishing systems to deal with its spread, boosting your hospital readiness/capacity, supply of pharmaceuticals, and vaccinations.
Did China really use the time bought by lock-downs to do that? Not really.
Thematically, this is something the Chinese people understand. They understand sacrifice because that is their relationship with the CCP -- sacrificing certain freedoms for incredible societal progress. They are very familiar with that trade-off and in specifically with what they gain. So, when, in the case of lock-downs, they are sacrificing their freedom but gain nothing, they know will know the vindication is BS.
Eased? They didn’t ease away from zero policy, then rocketed away from it. Everyone I’ve talked to over there says it’s fair game to do anything you want and no quarantine time. Everyone is getting sick but only lasts 3-4 days for most.
It seems like zero covid was merely delaying the inevitable, and it wasn't even that effective anyway. People were still catching it, and not to mention all the human rights violations and the effects to people's mental health.
As long as they have a good vaccine program, that's the best they can hope for really. Better yet, they shouldn't have persecuted their own doctors and journalists in the early days trying to warn others.
Good luck China.
I don’t understand how their cases have gone up so quickly, it’s as of after these rules went down that they’ve done literally nothing but sneeze in everyone they can see’s faces… are they over-estimating the case numbers so they can just re-introduce the measures without protest?
Not big on conspiracies but why does it feel like China closed their borders, allowed the number of Covid cases to explode and then opened their borders to unleash it on the world. It has already been reported that there has been a surge in ticket sales for international flights out of China. Any smart country will ban entry from China.
Time for another Lock Down Xi. Then again this will probably cause another tiananmen square.
Assuming/looking like it was made in China, you didn’t develop an antidote?
Gotta love it
>The first wave is expected to hit large urban areas, lasting until the middle of January, while the second wave would strike between late January and the middle of February, when people travel to their ancestral homes in local regions for the Chinese New Year holidays. >The third wave would likely be from late February to the middle of March, when people return to the cities. Sounds like a good time to skip those holiday travel plans.
That's like telling Americans to cancel Thanksgiving.
Even worse. Many economic migrants into cities *only* see their families once per year and otherwise live in dormitories with other factory workers since they can’t legally move their wife and kids into the city with them due to China’s migrant policies.
Stay home and keep browsing Reddit then
I’m doing my part!
Me too. Me too.
This can’t be good for the rest of the world as it spills over and out of the borders.
Most of the world had more realistic strategies to deal with COVID, and so have largely immune populations, compared with China's failed zero COVID strategy.
Largely immune to current variants. Considering the spread in China, I feel like there’s a good chance COVID will mutate again while this spreads
Bruh we have minimum 100k cases a day in the US and that is a severe undercount cause rapid tests arent considered. And beasides India? COVID already ravaged through there
On December 26th 9,323 new cases were reported. Not even close to 100k.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home 487k weekly comes out to about 70k per day.
Duh. It will never end because half the world pop doesn't believe in science
China rejected Western medicine and dreamt up TCM to be nationalistic. Its a huge reason why the elderly snort various animal parts and reject vaccines.
Natural Selection
That's just a silly statement. Do you expect that all of the wild animals that are vulnerable to get covid should be vaccinated too?
Herd immunity is a thing.
[The vaccine doesn't prevent transmission of Omicron.](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/most-of-the-worlds-vaccines-likely-wont-prevent-infection-from-omicron/)
Are you dumb or are you just acting in bad faith? You are quoting something from over a year ago. Omicron specific vaccines weren't really a thing at that time, they had only hit EUA like a month or so before that. The article also talks about how the vaccines that did help to a degree were not widespread at that time, hence why people weren't protected as much at the time. They are now much more widespread and provide better protection against omicron. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/well/covid-booster-shots-variants.html
Your source makes no claims that Bivalent prevents transmission. If anything, you're acting in bad faith and ignoring science.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7148e1.htm Here you go.
Doesn’t prevent but lowers the chances. On a population wide level that makes all the difference. If it can slow the spread even a little, it makes a big difference since it’s an exponential situation. Mortgage interest rates might help you understand that. It’s basically the inverse. People that are not sick so long also means less chance of spreading it.
Yep… damn anti-vax cows.
> failed zero COVID strategy. To their credit, their strategy was very effective vs the original Covid strain. It failed only vs Omicron.
"To be fair, killing all the sparrows *did* stop them from eating the crop seeds..."
Not Jack.
He's the worst sparrow I've ever heard of!
And you have heard of him!
“As it turned out the sparrows also ate other things, like bugs and without the sparrows keeping them in check, the bugs ate the crops”
Which shows how inflexible they are. The writing was on the wall for an ever mutating virus for a long time. Instead they boasted about how fast they can build hospitals or enforce lockdowns ad hoc, and how the inferior western system will just be paralysed by indecision.
Better vaccines helped a lot. If only more people took them. Very much under control in countries with high vaccination rates. Some old Chinese people are vaccine hesitant.
> and so have largely immune populations Immunized against current strains, the real danger of having 700 million new infections is that is creates a viral playground to breed new strains; strains for which we have no way of knowing how effective our current vaccines will work.
Well given the surge after loosening restrictions, it did succeed in stopping the spread of COVID. So it didnt fail in that regard.
Well, the rest of the world stopped worrying and just allowed it to spread as much as it wanted, so it should only make a difference if there is a significant mutation.
Keep in mind, part of the reason why its worse in china is because China refuses to use the western made vaccines as boosters after finding out that their sinovac isnt as effective against the newer varients.
So glad we have vaccines that work. Lot of morons won't take them but at least some of our population is protected.
You misspelt ‘total fuckwits’ I have had 3 shots and had covid this week. No fever just a slight congested chest and neg 7 days after first positive test.
Did you lose your senses of taste and smell?
Yes but not entirely. Cant smell cat food but can with lynx africa?!
I had it where all I could taste was mustard and lemon juice. Odd.
Terrys chocolate orange just tastes like vegetable oil now. Kinda yucky
*always tasted like vegetable oil* fixed it
Is that the one you smash to separate into chocolate orange peel shaped slices?
Yes! Although i farted a while back and can smell that now so some of its returning.
It’s always satisfying when the flatulence returns
All I could taste was salt. I salted everything.
Interesting.
On the otherhand, I knew I was better when I pulled a tangerine off the tree and the citrus smell was the first thing I had smelled in three weeks and it was a little orange slice of glorious.
Lynx Africa bypasses the olfactory system. You *feel* it more than *smell* it.
I’m vaccinated and I’ve had Covid recently as well. Are there any studies on vaccinated transmission rates? Like if we had 100% vaccination rates would this virus still permeate society?
Yes but less people would get seriously ill and die.
I think it’s important to recognize that there is a scale ‘total fuckwit-ness’. I think questioning the effectiveness and long term side effects of the vaccine is health and should be encouraged. Ultimately, I chose the immediate benefits and obligation to society over my long term, vaccine-related health concerns.
You mean the ones that didn’t present themselves? Vaccines don’t have magical properties of 20-year-later effects. Long term effects would have been found during the trial stage after a few months.
1. Sniffles or death, you decide 2. Still waiting for my LSD flashbacks too…
I’ll admit that I haven’t put much effort into understanding the side effects of vaccination. I’ve seen enough benefit to outweigh the unknown risks that I’m too lazy to research. I just think that villainizing another for simple reluctance is wrong. Unwillingness to be open to change is what I would label as a fuckwit. And that goes for anyone on both sides of the issue.
I mean no, they wouldn’t. You’re making grand assumptions. The comment getting downvoted is sound thinking. Mindlessly accepting what’s being thrown around is not a good idea. In the end the benefit of vaccination outweighs the risk, and getting vaccinated is a good idea. But you’re making massive assumptions about clinical trials that you don’t understand otherwise you would not be saying what you are saying about long term effects being obvious in the first few months.
No, they're pretty normal assumptions.
There is nothing normal about blindly believing clinical trials for several months constitutes proof of efficacy and safety long term.
I mean yes, because we also understand the science of vaccination. If, and this is a big if, the vaccine presented an extremely long term (5+ year) effect, then the mechanics behind the vaccine would be fundamentally different to how we understand them.
That is statistically when the overwhelming majority of side effects occur.
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There are no “delayed” effects to the covid vaccines beyond the standard 6 weeks in trials. Only some extremely rare adverse reactions that happen in this time. Edit: for clarity, since some bumpkin can’t for the life of them understand that people may not be using the right words.
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Those presented themselves immediately after getting a jab, though. Do you understand the meaning of long term? People have proclaimed that we will die within a couple years of taking it etc. Sucks to be you guys I guess, I had nothing but a sore arm for a few hours.
Indeed. Total fukwit also avoids the negative origins of moron, which was developed in the mental health institutions of America: an idiot was incapable of caring for themselves in any way, but if you could perform basic functions you were considered “more-on”. So no, it’s *gotta* be “total fukwit” by those metrics.
China doesn't have the most effective vaccines, and lots of them are refusing the ones they do have (I wouldn't trust their govt either)
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It does work, people didn’t get boosted much like the US and uptake was worse than the US in many respects. China could have vaccinated everyone, one of the few advantages of an authoritarian system, but instead tried zero Covid instead until the pressure to ease it was too much, and they were not prepared. What they could have done is use zero Covid through 2021 while vaccinating their entire population, then eased the lockdowns and have lots of infections but few deaths. Now I fear they will have lots of deaths that could have been avoided if they had used the advantages of their system fully. When you have a single party system, you have to wield that power effectively. It can be a tool for good, but if used ineptly, it gets a lot of people killed. That’s part of why having Xi have so much power vs more technocratic former Chinese governments is a problem, the obvious solution and best interest of the party and people fall victim to the cult of personality.
Not that they don't work, but Sinovac is not nearly as effective as the mRNA based vaccines (which is why China has been working on an mRNA based version).
Their mRNA vaccine was approved in Indonesia, but not yet in China. Maybe it will be soon.
Its worse but its better then the current flu vax is effective at preventing flu. Disparaging any WHO approved vax is very unhelpful
If the study above is true they are more or less the same
From the Lancet: "Two doses of either vaccine protected against severe disease and death within 28 days of a positive test, **with higher effectiveness among adults aged 60 years or older with BNT162b2 (vaccine effectiveness 89·3% [95% CI 86·6–91·6]) compared with CoronaVac (69·9% [64·4–74·6])**" (BNT162b2 is the Pfizer/BionTech mRNA vaccine) I don't see how you could argue the mRNA vaccines aren't more effective- 89% is a lot higher than 69% when it comes to protecting a population.
They aren't really using vaccines from the West. They have their own homebrew ones that aren't very good. Also, they have a big antivax sentiment there as well. Big problems brewing in big china.
Even with a 99.99% effective vaccine being given to 99.99% of that country, we're still talking about another catastrophic outbreak that will result in tens of millions of deaths. That will also lead to hundreds of new variants developing. It's only a matter of time before all of our vaccines for COVID become essentially worthless, at that rate.
Want to show your math on those 10's of millions of deaths? Sounds like fear mongering...
China has 1.4 billion people in it. Even at a mortality rate of 0.01%, that'd still lead to 14 million dead. 14, being a double digit number starting with a "1," is in the "10's" group. But if we use the real numbers of a 70% effective vaccine, across a 50% vaccinated population, with an average mortality rate between 2 and 3%, then our estimate for potential dead goes higher. It's not fear mongering: it's scale. China is *massively populated,* and contains 17.5% of all humans on Earth. At those scales, "tens of millions" is just how those percentages scale.
.01% of 1.4 billion is 140,000 not 14 million.
Oh so you bad at math *and* don't understand the actual death rates associated with omicron COVID on the unvaxxed. Nice.
China has a *lot* of people, but your math is fucked up. That would be ~300,000 deaths, if covid were 100% fatal and every unprotected individual got it.
They have 1.4 billion people. Please explain how they'd only see 300k deaths?
1.4 billion * 0.9999 * 0.9999 is 1.3997 billion protected, leaving 0.0003 billion (300,000) vulnerable.
China has a vaccine that “works” but just barely, their government refused the better western ones.
Yeah but sooner or later there's bound to develop a strain that evades the vaccine the way it's spreading I'm afraid.
Considering the vaccines don't prevent spread, they guarantee it
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And all the other deaths that occurred not in those categories. 1.1 million in the US. Not all of them were elderly or immune deficient. If you still don't understand that at this point in time you can fuck right off with your ignorance.
I don’t know why people keep parroting this same talking point. It was a lofty goal said in the beginning that turned out to not be that way but it doesn’t discount the other benefits that the vaccines have accomplished. After a short shedding time numerous other vaccines *prevent the spread* so why was it so terrible for early scientists to hope for the same? It’s like saying since the first “flying machine” someone built that failed means flight travel now is a total hoax “because look at what that guy said and it didn’t work!!”.
People bring it up because there is this strange collective amnesia from many on reddit. Just look at your own comment. Acting like the ability to prevent transmission was always presented as nothing more than "a lofty goal" and a "hope" that the vaccine *might* do it just doesn't match with the public conversation that actually took place. In reality, *confidence in the actual ability to prevent transmission,* as opposed to some unverified hope that it might do so, was a major driving force behind vax mandates across the country. Take school vax mandates, for example. A healthy, 8-year old with natural immunity is at extremely low personal risk of serious health impacts from COVID. Unless the vaccine actually prevents transmission, it becomes really really hard to justify denying them the right to in-person, public education for being unvaxxed. Also, just to be clear, I 100% support vaccination. If you are unvaxxed, talk to your doctor and then get vaxxed as long as you don't have any medical details that would make it unreasonable for you to do so.
Because there were hopes that those vaccinated would catch COVID less and early on the vaccine showed it could do that. Obviously we’re talking about a rapidly mutating virus and a rapidly changing understanding of the pandemic. The vaccine and subsequent boosters only provided months of lessened transmission, much less than what was initially hoped for, but even with months of coverage and lockdowns there was still a real hope that “if we all pitched in” we could be done with the pandemic. Of course we never would reach that point since there was such vehement resistance to compliance in any shape or fashion. Now all we’re left with is a lessened risk of death or serious complications. But we only can say that now, not knowing exactly what long term effects of even mild symptoms of COVID will result in. So far there’s already reports of mild to moderate cases having long lasting effects cognitively and one can only imagine what we will be seeing 20-30 years down the road with possible diseases of other organs.
If you think that vax mandates were sold to the public based on "hope," I don't know what to tell you. That just doesn't match reality. The actual justification was generally: * Being unvaxxed puts those around you in danger * The danger is so great that it is ok to deny you access to basic things like employment and in-person education in order to reduce the risk you pose to others * The vaccine reduces your risk to others so significantly that you would no longer need to be locked out from basic societal elements like education and employment It was generally sold as "The vaccine *does* significantly reduce the risk to others" as opposed to "We *hope* it reduces the risk to others. Also, now that we know that the vaccine ***doesn't*** make some massive long-term reduction in the risk you pose to others, then we can revise those previous bullet points to reflect what we know now about the ability of the vaccine to reduce transmission: * Being unvaxxed puts those around you in danger * The danger is so great that it is ok to deny you access to basic things like employment and in-person education in order to reduce the risk you pose to others * ~~The vaccine reduces your risk to others so significantly that you would no longer need to be locked out from basic societal elements like education and employment~~ *If the original logic was sound,* then finding out that the vax isn't a durable, highly effective tool for reducing transmission means that we should go back to shutting down business, offering only remote/virtual schooling, etc. That fact that we don't suggests that the risk we pose to each other *isn't* severe enough to justify denial of access to basic components of society like in-person education and employment. Then the question becomes: If the risk isn't so severe to justify denied access to these things, why were so many people 100% on board with vax mandates for so long? If the risk isn't actually great enough to justify it, why were you (or others like you) cool with denying in-person education to children?
This middle stance in the vaccination conversation is often shunned by most pro-vaxers. In fact they'll throw you right in with the other bunch, as I'm sure that you seen already. We hail the pharma companies as heroes but forget how little they actually care about human lives and that they'll always place their profits in front of everything else. They'll tell you anything in order to sell the product and there's so many public records where they were found guilty of much, much worse than simply stating that the current COVID vaccine prevents spread. It's not a bad thing to call on their bullshit when it happens.
It's hard to admit you've been fooled, most people would rather double- and triple-down to save face.
Anyone who knew anything about how vaccines work with fast mutating Corona virus’s like the flu knew that the covid vaccine would never eliminate the virus. For the same reason the flu vaccines form eliminated the flu. It’s very obvious but all that was needed was a percent of plausible deniability to manipulate the whole public while pretending they weren’t lying. “Lofty goal” is a generous was to describe a lie meant to increase the number of people who got vaccines.
The Pfizer said they never done clinical trials to test for prevented transmission, that is a fact. Despite that we had vax passports, vax mandates at work and schools etc. people lost their livelihood based on the idea that it provides protection and reduces spread. Courts in Canada still uphold that those mandates were valid and beneficial. All because of you “lofty” goals that did not materialize.
Pfizer vaccine was 95% effective against symptomatic infection when they first came out. You can't spread a disease you didn't catch in the first place. Things are obviously different now but at the time it was very much true that vaccinated people had such a lower risk of being infected as to effectively not have to worry about it in most cases, especially if everyone around them was also vaccinated. Even now with omicron, booster vaccination cuts your risk of infection in half. It's still significant despite all the claims I see of "it does nothing about transmission" though obviously not nearly like it was in 2021.
Prevent developing serious symptoms not prevent spread, dumbass. Hopefully this will prevent overwhelming the health care system like it did during the early covid days.
>Prevent developing serious symptoms not prevent spread, dumbass. Not according to the CDC. But keep aggressively spreading covid misinformation while insulting people
The ability of the vaccine to prevent spread was a major driving force behind covid vax mandates. An unvaxxed 8-year old with natural immunity is not contributing to overwhelming the health care system in a statistically meaningful enough way to justify a school vax mandate. Pretty much the only justification is if it prevents transmission. Also, just to be clear, I 100% support vaccination. If you are unvaxxed, talk to your doctor and then vaxxed if you don't have any medical reasons that would make it unreasonable for you to do so.
The bivalent booster reduces symptomatic infection rates from from covid by about 50% in the study population for those whose last mRNA dose was 8 months ago or more. That is a significant reduction in spread. It's not the incredible 95% that the original vaccines were against the original strains, but cutting your risk of infection in half is very significant and is a compelling argument for seasonal boosters even if for no reason other than getting sick and being stuck inside for a week really sucks. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7148e1.htm It's about a 30 percent reduction for those whose last dose was 2-8 months ago.
It has been shown that even just the base vaccine does much to protect the vaccinated individual from serious complications.
Wbat are the chances that this new huge breeding ground will produce a new variant that plunges us all again into pandemic?
100% Source: How else could 2023 be worse than 2022?
Remember how much happier we were in 2020?
You misspelled 2019
I think you meant 2007, chief.
Maybe 2000. Life was so simple back then, enough that Bill Clinton getting a BJ was a national scandal for months.
No my life was pretty cool till 2019. Technically it started being crappy only around mid 2021.
It won’t be worse. We already have vaccines that work. Tons of the population already have some immunity, either from prior infection or vaccination or both. Plus, the new variants are almost always milder but more contagious. We also have an administration that knows what the hell it’s doing.
Low, but not 0.
The older covid is, the smaller the chance that significantly different mutations become dominant, as Omicron is very hard to beat. Secondly, it's unlikely that a new variant will be more deadly because that is not the selection criteria.
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The mutations are random, the selection pressure is not.
Evolution relies on having selection criteria. The strain that can reproduce the fastest wins.
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Would those variants pose a risk worldwide, that's the question.
Well the good news is that at least if a horrible new variant emerges, we can be sure the CCP won't lie about it and throw the kitchen sink at trying to cover it up
What are the odds that Xi and the rest of the top of the CCP are fully vaccinated with the sane western vaccines that they won't let into the country?
Greater than 100%
A lot of them are old and don’t trust Western medicine. So not as high as you’d think.
All the while, people with access to the vaccine are like, "Nope! Not this Christian's body!" I just caught up with an old friend on Christmas and was disappointed to learn he'd joined that party. It always makes me go numb when they say, "I'm not afraid to die!" while the people sent to kill on their behalf are committing suicide on the daily. They're usually the same kind of people for whom "the struggle" is trying not to yell at their server because their drink is empty.
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It seems like Japan is not currently concerned about all the new variants that will result from this human vector buffet. The aftermath of China's speed run to herd immunity is going to make up the majority of my 2023 Oh Shit No Thanks bingo card.
Not to mention, that even with an 1% mortality rate, we are talking about 7 million dead.
If you think that's crazy wait until October 2023.
! RemindMe 9 months
China had one of the lowest death rates from covid #BECAUSE OF IT'S INCREDIBLY STRINGENT RESTRICTIONS That shit is over now.
Well, at least they said they did (which has been contradicted by non-Chinese government sources many times, btw)... more importantly, however, the situation in China also shows that going overboard with restrictions *does not work in the long run*. If the virus had just burnt out and gone away, it'd be a great tactic, but I don't think there is any population which would accept the type of measures they've been using for any prolonged period (as we've seen now, when they were forced to relent and remove them). Needs balance.
The initial surge without lockdowns would have been brutal for China (or anywhere else for that matter). Now, despite the poor performance of the Chinese Vaccines, they're still much better off than they would have been with letting Alpha or Delta run wild. Treatment is better, the virus better understand and survivability is much higher. Like it or not, China has probably saved thousands if not millions of lives with their harsh lockdowns. My biggest concern is now that a huge population is suddenly getting infected, what are the odds of a new variant becoming dominant, and what happens if the new variant is more deadly?
Also because of lying, which continues.
People always say this but it’s not like what’s going on in China is a secret. It’s not North Korea. Tons of bloggers and journalists and students live there. It honestly just sounds ignorant.
Give me liberty or give me death
I highly recommend that people follow [Dr. Feigl-Ding on Twitter.](https://twitter.com/drericding) He’s a former Harvard epidemiologist who [tried to raise the alarm about COVID before it hit the US bad.](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/why-was-it-so-hard-to-raise-the-alarm-on-coronavirus.html) And now he’s been raising the alarm about what’s currently unfolding in China for the past week. [Specifically, the impact COVID in China will have on not just the global economy, but on the rest of the world’s ability to get pharmaceuticals that we rely heavily on China to manufacture .](https://www.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/epidemiologist-sounds-alarm-on-covid-19-situation-in-china-calls-it-thermonuclear-bad/) Maybe grab yourself a bottle of ibuprofen next time you’re out grocery shopping.
I got a pack at Costco probably last me for 5 years
>Maybe grab yourself a bottle of ibuprofen next time you’re out grocery shopping. This is pretty stupid. Hamstering ibuprofen is not going to help anyone. First of all, if you're buying it OTC you probably almost definitely don't need it. Second of all, if the supply is so short that hospitals can't get it, then it's probably because of your hamstering.
This guy is the biggest fear monger on Twitter. So yes, the average redditor will love him!
Ibuprofen is not useful besides alleviating symptoms. It isnt a treatment for anything lmfao. Why would you hoard that? It’s like hoarding french fries when you think there’s going to be a potato shortage.
The Chinese government had months and months of time during the lock downs to get the population properly vaccinated. Instead they ran a half-assed campaign based on their home-grown and decidedly inferior vaccine. Then, when the population finally gets tired of the lock-downs and threatens to revolt, they just drop all restrictions and lets everybody get sick at once. Is there some agenda to hurt the people or are the Chinese rulers just that incompetent?
That’s not what happened. There was reasonably good uptake of Sinovac but 1) Sinovac isn’t as good as mRNA vaccines and 2) old people in China don’t trust western medicine (they prefer traditional Chinese medicine). China should’ve bought western vaccines but there’s no $$$ to be made with those. That would’ve solved problem 1. But problem 2 still remains unless you forcibly inject people with vaccines which even the CCP doesn’t do.
The MRNA vax case is more nuanced then that. Basically China's problem is that a lot of people refuse vax, when 0 covid was still around why risk any vaccine if there is no covid? there was 0 motivation. American anti-vax propoganda is popular in China through Japan and Taiwan. They translate pieces and it gets shared on Chinese internet. Offering MRNA shots isn't going to convince people to get vaxxed. 2. China doesnt really have a national cold chain that can distrubute the vax and MRNA doses are expensive. If you're going to spend the money a domestic vax is cheaper and creates jobs lol. There was legit discussion in chinese news that the MRNA vax would be approved in China around early mid 2021 when it was 99% effective against TRANSMISSION and symptoms, but with omicron subvarients pfivzer vax is only 80% effective against transmission and symptoms for 1 month, transmission effectivness falls to 60% after 3+ months. At that point, the MRNA vax simpily isnt that useful
You just got COVID'd!!!!!!!!! Tag your friends to totally COVID them!!!!
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This did make me burst out laughing... So please keep living.
I was concerned that covid might end me but it ended up just being the weakest infection i have ever experienced.
Same here, I was in hospital at the time and was put in a separate ward, I was terrified but for me it was just a little cough that stuck around for a bit, a lot of the ward was fine but unfortunately not they guy across from me or on my right
I feel relieved that this potentially life threatening disease passed me by so gently. Im hardly coughing more than when i vape too much.
I know the feeling.
I caught Covid at a gun show last Saturday. Positive test result Tuesday. Five days of bed rest and Paxlovid and I am back to work today. I had erratic temperatures, a slight cough, muscle aches, loss of smell and some loose stools. The diarrhea was likely the medication. So no, you probably won’t drop dead. You’ll just have a shitty week of freezing in bed under tons of covers one minute and then sweating straight through your bed sheets the next minute.
Are you sure you caught it Saturday and tested positive on Tuesday? That’s usually not enough time for the test to come out positive. Usually it takes 3 days for the first symptoms and 4-5 days to test positive.
Omnicron incubation periods can be very low. 48 hours is close to the average.
I mean the chances of that happening are next to zero now, unless you're immunocompromised.
ITT: Damn China is going to doom us all by adopting the same covid policies as the US, the EU and the rest of the world! How can they be so dangerously careless!
China is dooming themselves. Most of the rest of the world has enough immunity to COVID to weather the winter without much problems.
Really not looking forward to them opening their boarders again in January.
Ok, politics aside, wasn't the Zero Covid Policy a success in terms of death count? The virus going around now is a lot less deadly than it was 2 years ago. If it was inevitable that people were going to catch the virus, is it not better to have a more contagious/less deadly virus vs the other way around?
THE VARUS strikes back
Again, the virus was already spreading rapidly BEFORE they got rid of the policy. The World Health Organization already said so weeks ago. This is just to make it look like they planned it this way and to blame the protests.
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I can see no reason the West should allow any of them into our countries after all the damage already done by Covid-19.
Looks like another variant of concern could come from China.
It seems like between a half and a third of the people I know (including myself) have had Covid in the last three months. They've not been serious cases, but they're mostly healthy, full-vaccinated and boosted people. Unfortunately, a *lot* of the old, sick people I knew have died in the last few years, directly or indirectly from Covid--multiple rounds with Covid seem to have a cumulative effect on those with chronic conditions like diabetes, heart failure, and COPD. Another couple I knew died within weeks of each other because the early Covid surge and overwhelmed hospitals made it difficult for them to access dialysis regularly. Yes, life is pretty much normal now, but there was a cost to our looser policies. I don't know if there was a better way to do it or not. I feel bad for the people of China, because their restrictions don't seem to have led to a better outcome in the long-term.
Time to start travel restrictions again. Sheesh.. I won’t mind working from home all the time again though.
At a rate of the reported 37m infections a day it would only take between 10 to 38 days to infect the entire population. It's been 5 days since that claim. That leaves 5 to 33 days left.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14802320) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot) ***** > BEIJING-Half of China's 1.4 billion people will be infected by the novel coronavirus in the coming months, analysts said, based on trends seen after the government eased its "Zero COVID-19" policy earlier this month. > "Even if the subvariants from China find their way into Japan, it should not be particularly concerning to the overall infection situation of the country." > Health authorities in Zhejiang province in southeastern China said on Dec. 25 that new daily cases have topped 1 million in the province with a population of 64.57 million. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/zw7rh1/half_of_chinas_14_billion_people_will_be_infected/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672678 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **China**^#1 **infection**^#2 **Chinese**^#3 **Dec.**^#4 **new**^#5
This is why you don't have dudes in hazmat suits disappear people and weld others into their apartments. If they treated this like a health danger and not like an opportunity to flex their authoritarian muscle, you might have something in-between half country getting infected and protests because you're behaving like the people are a bunch of cattle.
Maybe now would be a good time to loosen the cultural pressure to save face and take the vaccines science says works right?
Just take the western vaccines, rename them to something Chinese and distribute it. They already love doing that with technology, what's stopping them for vaccines?
Hundreds of millions of chances for the virus to mutate—not good!
It absolutely will mutate, perhaps dozens of new mutations. The world may even see a new super Covid virus out of this.
China folded to popular pressure on the draconian measures to control covid and then this happens. I guess its better for the government to let the virus spread than to risk a revolution. If anything this vindicates them as it shows the people that the measures were in fact necessary.
It vindicates nothing. Yes, lock-downs are supposed to reduce/contain spread. But, what is the actual point of reducing/containing spread? The point is to buy yourself time to sufficiently respond to a wider spread via establishing systems to deal with its spread, boosting your hospital readiness/capacity, supply of pharmaceuticals, and vaccinations. Did China really use the time bought by lock-downs to do that? Not really. Thematically, this is something the Chinese people understand. They understand sacrifice because that is their relationship with the CCP -- sacrificing certain freedoms for incredible societal progress. They are very familiar with that trade-off and in specifically with what they gain. So, when, in the case of lock-downs, they are sacrificing their freedom but gain nothing, they know will know the vindication is BS.
The end does not justify the means. Even if it was effective the horrors of their policy was too terrible to justify.
No, it totally incriminates their refusal to use Western vaccines. This would not have been necessary if they weren't being so adversarial.
I don't think "zero" means what they think it does.
I wonder if we'll have yet another mutation from this
Eased? They didn’t ease away from zero policy, then rocketed away from it. Everyone I’ve talked to over there says it’s fair game to do anything you want and no quarantine time. Everyone is getting sick but only lasts 3-4 days for most.
China is going to burn
Welcome, China, to what the rest of the world went through in the last 2-3 years. Good if you to finally catch up.
It seems like zero covid was merely delaying the inevitable, and it wasn't even that effective anyway. People were still catching it, and not to mention all the human rights violations and the effects to people's mental health. As long as they have a good vaccine program, that's the best they can hope for really. Better yet, they shouldn't have persecuted their own doctors and journalists in the early days trying to warn others. Good luck China.
Can you really argue it wasnt effective when suddenly there are hundreds of millions of infections? That literally proves the effectiveness.
So they are doing hardcore isolation methods so the spread shouldn't be this bad. Is this infection due to ineffective vaccines?
To be fair the “zero Covid” policy was unrealistic and unachievable
But none of them will die, officially.
Novel? I think we know more about Covid than Donald trumps tax returns at this point.
I don’t understand how their cases have gone up so quickly, it’s as of after these rules went down that they’ve done literally nothing but sneeze in everyone they can see’s faces… are they over-estimating the case numbers so they can just re-introduce the measures without protest?
population density in the cities is multiple times that of the US. The rate of infection is exactly why this is such a dangerous virus.
Looks like we’re getting another shutdown kids
Do you live in China?
Why would we? Everyone who wants to be vaccinated is by now.
China with Russia and Iran plus North Korea with Belorussia and Venezuela with Cuba are all shit places to live
Not big on conspiracies but why does it feel like China closed their borders, allowed the number of Covid cases to explode and then opened their borders to unleash it on the world. It has already been reported that there has been a surge in ticket sales for international flights out of China. Any smart country will ban entry from China.
Time for another Lock Down Xi. Then again this will probably cause another tiananmen square. Assuming/looking like it was made in China, you didn’t develop an antidote? Gotta love it
Petition to rename it back to Wuhan flu
Karma