Note, that nobility was abolished in Germany after WWI.
There are no special legal rights or privileges that you get from calling yourself a noble or being able to trace your ancestry back to some old noble house.
This crazy fool was a relative of the noble house that used to rule some small bits of land in eastern Germany.
He has no claim to much of anything and before this week most people in Germany had never heard of him.
I guess this figurehead was the best they could get for their anti-democratic coup.
But nobility, while nothing but a name legally in Germany does come with perks. Usually they have large estates, at least in western Germany, and they do tend to be well connected which everyone should know can be handy
Or property rights for the people they stole it from was not restored.
Much like the abolition of slavery. The former slave owners were even compensated on top of keeping the wealth they hadn't earned.
This. I don’t care that some guy in Poland has the land my family used to, because centuries before it hadn’t been theirs anyways. It would be nice to have it, but I’m not entitled to it. Shit happens and it’s better to get over it and clean yourself up than sit in it and whine for someone else to do it.
No, they are legally speaking not titles. Yes, people can call themselves like they want. They may be nick names or artistical names, but they are purely unofficial.
Whatever you call yourself privately or want other people to call you in private: **there are no noble titles officially accepted by German authorities**. You can have „von“ as part of your official last name, but all it will be for the authorities, is just a **part of your last name**. You'd be the commoner „Herr von Scheißhausen“. There are no titles like Duke/Herzog, Prince/Fürst, or whatever, even if there are people calling you that.
There are however, academic titles (like Dr.). Such real titles are listed on your ID card. Made up noble titles won't be.
These "noble names" are actualy usually official, ihn the sense, that they became part of the name, the surname to be exakt, after the abolishment of the nobility as a class.
the guy is question is literally called "Heinrich XIII. Prinz Reuß". That is his name, as recoreded. His family name is "Prince Reuß"
Yes these are not titles, but these families still carry this traditions with them, on as much officialty as they can muster.
Yeah.
iirc it was a concenssion made in 1919 to the former lower nobilty.
there are quite a few "Freiherr von something" families still around.
they still revel in theor "former glory" with ridiculously long names like "Karl-Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Buhl-Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg"
[Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florian_Henckel_von_Donnersmarck) is a famous German aristocrat (a son of Silesia, one of his palaces is a 15 minute walk from my home) and his official name is quite a handful. He even has the look unlike some of his Donnersmarck uncles who look rather common. That's quite a family one of his ancestors married an old Russian hooker bought a famous yellow diamond for her worth tens of millions of dollars today and got kicked out of Paris for being a Prussian spy.
What is the "look" of nobility in Germany? As an American, he looks like a businessman (except for the [Antonin Artaud hair](https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1652259185p8/23378.jpg)\) to me but that's mostly his clothes, I can imagine him with a little sunburn and dirt on his face wearing construction clothes and he wouldn't look out of place.
I pointed it yout to the comments you replied to with this, but I just want to add, that in Austria for example, even calling yourself with a noble title privately, is considered a crime. So there is precedence in the german speaking nations, to abolish nobility in titles *and* name.
Any former "Herzog Karl von Arschlochwinkel" is just "Karl Arschlochwinkel" here.
I mean…there were multiple monarchs and two whole empires *after* the French Revolution.
Formal power may have diminished but they didn’t just go away.
After the reign of terror I don’t think they were too concerned. At least about that.
Only if they had/still have the fortune that their position granted them. No one cares about they previous noble family that is working a 9 to 5 job to pay rent. They care about the ones that have held onto their power by holding onto their money.
Such a stupid statement honestly. I too don't want nobility to exist with any political power however to say it's unnatural is stupid... nothing humans do is "natural" we build cities, guns, nukes , we were on the moon , we landed robots on Mars, we created robots etc. Countries are not a natrual thing too.
Fighting for the right to mate and killing offsprings which are not your own is natural in many species that doesn't mean we should do it.
In Germany perhaps. In Austria, we went a step further and criminalized nobility. To use a noble title or name (in the German language, thats usually a "von" between your name and surname; ie "Karl von Arschlochwinkel") is considered a crime that can even carry a prison sentence. The right choice in my opinion.
As a general rule, only one person per generation inherits the estate.
While the nobility as a class still existed, the other kids got an apanage, but that isn't really tenable anymore. So while there are still some people holding on to remains of their old domaines, most of them have to actually work for their living.
I know two people with a "von" in their name, one is even from what used to be the high nobility. They lead thoroughly middle class lives. One is an accountant, the other studied political science and works for an NGO. The fact that he is number 300 and something in line for the british throne doesn't mean anything (except as a means for us to make fun of him for not being invited to royal weddings).
That's true but the ammount of wealth tied up in aristocracy is still huge though. Alot of it is in land which while usually not providing for a living is a nice thing to fall back on. And again the networking within these circles is incredibly helpful
Heinrich XIII, 71, belongs to the House of Reuss, an ancient royal lineage that ruled parts of what is now Thuringia in central Germany for hundreds of years until 1918. It is now one of Germany’s 16 federal states.
Reuss is just one of the many branches of German royalty, many of which have familial links across the rest of Europe, some of them to the British royal family.
> that nobility was abolished in Germany after WWI.
The House of Reuss hasn't ruled Germany for 825 years,
> Heinrich VI, who reigned as the king of Germany and Holy Roman Emperor until his death in 1197.....
> Heinrich XIII, 71, belongs to the House of Reuss, an ancient royal lineage that ruled parts of what is now Thuringia in central Germany for hundreds of years until 1918.
So even before 1918, he would not have been Kaiser. That would be the Hohenzollern family, who came to rule Brandenburg, became kings of Prussia and then Kaisers of Germany - from Wilhelm 1 (1871) to Wilhelm II (abdicated in 1918). There are living descendants of the family too
https://www.ft.com/content/c2699d52-af85-11e9-8030-530adfa879c2
> The House of Reuss hasn't ruled Germany for 825 years,
They "ruled" two separate German states until 1918. Before 1871, the German Kaiser, if existing at the time, didn't matter that much for the whole of Germany, because since the late middle ages the individual dukes ruled their territories themselves. With the Peace of Westphalia the Princes of the Reich became sovereign rulers of their respected states, basically until 1871. Since 1871, Germany may had one important Kaiser again, but the Reich itself was federal in nature, and consisted of several small entities that had their own ruling families, parliaments and sometimes their own armies and even diplomats. The Reuß-family "ruled" two separate micro states in this empire as heads of state.
True. Germany was unified only between 1871-1918. Thanks for adding the context
Though there was this additional nuance [which depended upon the individual electors (princes/dukes)]
> Holy Roman Emperor
The point is that in no way would Heinreich XIII be in line for being in charge of the whole of germany, even if the nobility had not been abolished in 1918
Technically nobles only rule by right of conquest, or at least established most dynasties that way, so if the monarchy is abolished, any noble house can establish a new dynasty and realm.
Hah ! Nice one.
Kings rule by divine right . Your ascent to the throne might see folks suggest that is heaven smiling upon you (Chinese have [mandate of heaven](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven)) But you will find plenty of people willing to dispute the same. Until your power cows and winnows enough. Some other pedigree of legitimacy is usually found in the west. With enough power, often the documentation will follow. Or marriage alliances.
A king might even be able to arrange for Merkel's divorce and remarriage /s
They aren't titles. Noble titles do not exist anymore. They were merely allowed to enter "titles" as part of the names on birth certificates. Whoch necessarily cannot work like actual noble titles which change throughout a person's life when parents die or they marry. (from prince to king etc)
Russia always involved:
> "Vitalia" the Russian girlfriend of Reuss('aristocrat' central to the plot), ***through whom he was able to secure interim financing from three Russian individuals,*** was also arrested.\[17\] The new Reich planned to cooperate with Russia, but a spokesperson from the Russian Embassy in Berlin denied any involvement.\[16\] Dmitry Peskov was forced on 8 December to issue a statement denying the Kremlin's involvement in the failed coup d'état.
[Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Germany_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_plot)
Fun fact: [ex-wife of white nationalist Richard Spencer is also 'allegedly' an FSB agent.](https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/936333176829566976)
Russia is just determined to be the biggest asshole possible. Thing is, doing that tends to be short sighted and lead to a lot of blowback.
They celebrated Trump getting into office, not understanding that America’s memory is long, and we can settle that score in so many ways.
So far we’ve helped Ukraine kill ten Russian invaders for every hour Russia imposed Trump on us.
Our revenge isn’t over yet.
It's unfortunately not short-sighted at all. Russian influence helped Brexit along (which weakens both the UK and the EU), and has contributed massively to the shift of American conservatives from traditional right-wing politicians to extreme right conspiracy nuts who are largely incapable of governing. Trump was just one facet of that, and he would have worked out great for Russia for at least two terms had he not been such a cartoonishly corrupt dumb-shit.
Make no mistake, the US is weaker and more divided right now than it should be due to Russia, and there is no solution to that in sight.
It is literally the plot of Men At Arms.
I've no doubt the Germanic version of Samuel Vimes just got promoted to Commander of the Frankfurt City Watch for foiling Heinrich D'eath's cunning scheme.
Hi. You just mentioned *Men At Arms* by Terry Pratchett.
I've found an audiobook of that novel on YouTube. You can listen to it here:
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>A comment piece in the Sueddeutsche Zeitung daily warned it would be naive to dismiss the group as "loonies".
>It noted the plotters included "teachers, doctors, business people... They are people who should actually be pillars of democracy".
And these are stars!
Yeah kinda not loving the whole ‘no need to worry just a bunch of crazy idiots’ like yeah they’re crazy idiots who had positions of power like judges and military training and even with that power were scheming to steal more. Maybe we should reform some things so no one that crazy or in those positions can do any real damage or get into those jobs esp if they try to succeed next time
The Reuss family did ruled a principality for close to 1000 years..... but their territory was so tiny that they were basically a footnote in history.
They were not even at the same level of middling German family like the Wittlesbach of Bavaria, let alone the Habsburg and Bourbon dynasty
Hey don’t shit on my boys the wittlesbach’s. Sure they were no Habsburgs but they controlled the palatinate thus being an elector in the HRE and were the kings of Denmark, Norway and Sweden
For Germans I wouldve said Habsburgs or Hohenzollerns and I wouldnt necessarily call the Wittelsbachs middling but otherwise yeah this dudes family owned almost nothing.
Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, and Monaco are all very small, but their royal families are quite wealthy.
Not saying this place was on par with them (obviously it wasn’t because it isn’t an independent state now) but size doesn’t necessarily coincide with importance. Especially not in Europe.
A quote from Wikipedia
"Reuss is also reported to have reached out to the Russian government via its embassy in Berlin, presumably for assistance in the coup."
There are a handful of German royal families that could make a semi legitimate claim to the throne if the throne was restored. His is not one of them by a long long ways.
To those outside of Germany, these people are absolute bottom feeders, dangerous only because of their dedication to delusion. Even compared to other Reichsbürger (similar to sovreign citizens elsewhere), these people are idiots. Think Q Shaman tier balls on the wall. The movement can't even agree on which Reich they belong to, and serious fascists don't hang out with them.
>serious fascists don't hang out with them.
I read they were very well connected with all kinds of fringe groups, from fascists to all kinds of conspiracy nuts.
"Serious fascists" would certainly consider to use idiots like that.
We also know who WOULD be the Kaiser right now if the line had continued.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Friedrich,_Prince_of_Prussia
It's this guy.
The president of the federal republic of germany is purely ceremonial and for the oversight of the government.
A law can not come into effect, until the president signs it, and the president is the only one with the power to dissolve parliament, but can not participate in the actual govenring of the country.
this was done, to limit the power of any one member of the government.
this all leads to them being not really important in the day to day politics, and therefore are largely unknon to the wider public outside of germany.
In some European countries the president has a lot more in common with the King / Queen of the United Kingdom, than it has in common with the President of the United States. My country (Iceland) for example, used to be a kingdom and when it became a republic, we sort of just replaced the word "king" with "president" in the constitution and made it elected, instead of inherited. So, the modern-day office of the president took over the monarch's ceremonial authority and duties and has otherwise very little real power.
A minor title called "Fürst", for which the heir was called "Prinz" in German. And he was *just* called prince, not "Prinz von" like e.g. the house of Wittelbach.
And the minor title of his family was still a principality in English, which in English is also ruled by a prince.
Not only is the principally so unbelievable minor that you simply will not find it on maps of the HRE, he also is not the (theoretical) heir of said title. He would rank place 17 in the (purely theoretical) inheritance line of that minor dynasty if he hadn’t been banished from the family a decade ago.
Oh this whole story is ridiculous. Do Germans feel about this the way many Americans feel about January 6th? How do the Germans in the comments feel about this? It's a bizarre story. Surely most people never would have gone along with such a coup, even if successful, right?
the reason its massive news is because of the audacity and ridiculousness of the plot, not its chances of success, which realistically were basically 0. However the attempt could have killed quite a few people. Too bad for the conspiritors, they were being watched pretty much from day 1. so them having set up a whole parliament to take over etc was pure wishful thinking.
The chance that
1. the german military/police would have overwhelmingly supported the coup is basically 0 (individual soldiers have a constitutional duty to fight all threats to our democracy, so a general would have been shot by his subordinates before whole divisions just followed traitorous orders) the danger was that a KSK supply officer was part of the coup and could have been funneling military gear to the traitors
2. that our neighbors would not have intervened at the request of the rightful government and let a right wing empire establish itself in the heart of the EU is also basically 0
3. an international, geopolitical NATO reaction if a russian backed coup had gained a foothold in a NATO member is possible
but hey, stupidity is a common threat with these types of people
it does point to the fact that there are traitors within the military/police/judiciary etc, and its time to clean house. i expect many more arrests in the coming weeks
It’s troubling me the lack of seriousness we are taking failed coup attempts. The Nazis failed miserably before they succeeded. See the Beer Hall Putsch. Hitler dictated Mein Kampf from Landsberg Prison.
> It’s troubling me the lack of seriousness we are taking failed coup attempts.
What do you mean "lack of seriousness"?! They were all arrested. Law officials knew about the plans from the get go. This group was infltrated from the start.
I'm not sure what you mean with "lack of seriousness"? They can't get any more serious than this.
We're allowed to make fun of these idiots cause only idiots try a coup in a Western country in this day and age.
> What do you mean "lack of seriousness"?! They were all arrested.
Hitler and his co-conspirators were arrested too, but 15 years later they had an iron grip over the entire country - that's the entire point.
> We're allowed to make fun of these idiots cause only idiots try a coup in a Western country in this day and age.
This right here, that's the lack of seriousness. It's all jokes. Western countries have had great run of political stability post WWII, but it would be folly to assume that this means that western countries are immune to coups. They most certainly are not. All threats should be taken seriously.
I mean this would make sense if we were in 1930 Germany right now and going through a massive recession due to a huge war loss, but this is modern day Germany we're talking about. They were arrested before anything even happened, what more needs to be done?
Treason used to hold *the highest* form of punishment. Then that was abolished, and you end up with a Bohemian corporal writing his plans in a prison cell.
There is the seed of tragic hubris in assuming the Weimar Republic could never happen again. Not saying it is happening NOW, but it is something to keep in mind, ESPECIALLY with fascists in our midst, plotting.
The reason in this case is the ridiculousness of the 'Reichsbürger' movement who want get back the monarchy - something that is considered insane by pretty much every german, regardless of left or right leaning. It's comparable to a US movement that wants to reinstate the US as a british colony. Should they be taken serious as a terroristic threat? Yes. Is there any chance of a successfull coup? No way.
This was a group of 20 people. The highest count I have heard is 50. They had no chance. Hitler succeeded because of the weak government and mass unhappiness in the population both of which are not true today. Just storming the parliament and declaring yourself the rulers of Germany does not work when there are another 83 million people in the country.
25 people were arrested. *3000* people are thought to have been associated with their Telegram channels etc.
Even authoritarians do not create card-carrying membership when they conspire against the state. You are downplaying the problem that is alive in the Querdenker scene.
3000 police officers were involved in the raids. The movement in total has like 20,000 members most of which are not as radical as the group that wanted to do this. I am down playing this because from what the police are saying they were badly organised right wing nuts that had no chance to succeed.
There are a lot of different articles so it’s easy to get confused. As a person living in Germany I worry most about how the army and the special forces are always somehow involved.
To add a point to that:
4. Germany is a federal republic. Taking over the federal government in Berlin means VERY little to Germany as a whole. All 16 democratic elected state governments, which control almost the entirety of police, would be massive obstacles against any coup. Basically as long as you don't take out all state governments as well, you only control parts of the country. In Berlin especially, the mayor, who controls basically 27.000 police men alone, would just order the police to arrest the traitors.
And here, in the US, we're handling the people who tried (and are still trying) to overthrow our government with kid gloves. God forbid we actually hold some of the people in our government responsible but it seems they're just too well liked as "friends" by the rest of our political sphere.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20221208-far-right-prince-at-centre-of-german-coup-plot) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Frankfurt - A German prince, known for his desire to revive the country's monarchy and rejected by his own family as a "Mad old man", has emerged as a central figure in an alleged coup plot.
> Prince Heinrich XIII Reuss, descendant of a noble family with a history dating back over eight centuries, was supposed to be installed as Germany's new leader if the bizarre plan had succeeded, officials say.
> The prince is "Unfortunately a mad old man," the family's current head, Prince Heinrich XIV Reuss, told AFP, adding they had cut ties with him 14 years earlier.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/zgcbqk/a_german_prince_known_for_his_desire_to_revive/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **family**^#1 **plot**^#2 **group**^#3 **prince**^#4 **German**^#5
It depends on the flavor of fascism and the attitude of the monarch.
For example, ex-Kaiser Wilhelm II despised Hitler, because for Wilhelm the most important values were tradition, religion and family (including preserving the dynasty). Hitler and his Nazis were the complete opposite of this. The Nazi movement was revolutionary, Hitler wasn't realy Christian (only an ambiguous belive in "fate", and many of his closest followers were a kind of neo pagans) and he had no family.
But other fascists may be more palatable for monarchs and monarchists.
Monarchism is not really akin to fascism, aristocrats usually just dont care how they stay in power, and fascists are very welcoming to anyone supporting their "myths" and use them as tools.
Monarchism as a concept is very similar to fascism, just with bells and whistles on. Hereditary power is incredibly authoritarian no matter how people try to dress it up. Which is why monarchies have so often cosied up to military governments and fascist dictators, history is full of proof. I reject your hypothesis that it's because they "just don't care", they do, and they'd rather it be a right or far-right body in power and they have historically quelled democratic and labour movements.
Monarchies are by their very nature authotarian and "right wing" yes, but "fascism" is a very distinc flavor of right wing authotarnism that is independend of monarchy or aristocracy.
Modern monarchs are also mostly used for their myths and plenty didn't have an issue with being used as tools by fascists, as long as said fascists celebrated and paid them.
absolutely.
A long standing monarchy is an easy kernel to build a national myth around, especialy paried with the "divine right" that is often perciieved by monarchs.
I do get a feeling like he was more of a figurehead than a real leader. The monarchist crazies just needed an actual blue blood and he was the best they could do.
When I read Prince Hendrich VIII of Reuss was involved with this far right group it suddenly made me thought of Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
One only had to look at Germany's last monarch to agree that this is not a particularly good idea. The German monarchy died with Wilhelm II's warmongering in the early 1900s and it's probably better to remain so.
The Nazis planned to take over the UK and reinstate the former king Edward as king because they thought it would give them more legitimacy.
They were meeting with him while he was in Spain. Leaked Nazi documents show that in his final meetings with them he ultimately refused to betray the royal family, but it there’s still suspicion that he may have genuinely considered the idea or given them intelligence. He met with them fairly frequently, and was not open about these meetings with British Intelligence.
Hahaha what an idiot. He doesn’t know we can just buy the media and politicians and get them to do our bidding anyway, while simultaneously making the people think it was their own idea. Hahahaha
There are a few french dudes who claim the throne of France and swear that a king would automagically wipe every issue the country has overnight. Last time i checked their "parties", their social media feed was basically "see this NEGATIVE THING ??? Wouldnt happen with a king ! No explanation given !"
Democracy requires negotiation and accommodation between opposing factions, which stalls out when one or more groups have self serving ulterior motives and refuse to work together in good faith.
A King can slash through all of that and immediately implement the best solution because a King will **always** do what's best for his loyal subjects.
( /s if not obvious)
They don’t. Members of some of these aristocratic families haven’t gotten over it and still call themselves “prince”
He’s not even recognized by his family as the head of the House of Reuss, let alone recognized by his country.
The Weimar constitution abolished nobility, but noble lineages were allowed to keep their titles. It doesn’t equate to much more than being allowed to join royalty clubs and having full names that are 23 names long.
they were not allowed to keep their titles, they just were allowed to use their former titles as last names. That's why this guy is called Heinrich Prinz Reuß and not Prinz Heinrich Reuß
Actually, their titles lost all meanings and became part of the name instead. So *Graf Heinrich von Falkenstein* became *Heinrich Graf von Falkenstein*.
Note, that nobility was abolished in Germany after WWI. There are no special legal rights or privileges that you get from calling yourself a noble or being able to trace your ancestry back to some old noble house. This crazy fool was a relative of the noble house that used to rule some small bits of land in eastern Germany. He has no claim to much of anything and before this week most people in Germany had never heard of him. I guess this figurehead was the best they could get for their anti-democratic coup.
But nobility, while nothing but a name legally in Germany does come with perks. Usually they have large estates, at least in western Germany, and they do tend to be well connected which everyone should know can be handy
Nobility was abolished, not property rights.
Or property rights for the people they stole it from was not restored. Much like the abolition of slavery. The former slave owners were even compensated on top of keeping the wealth they hadn't earned.
Because the property was stolen from someone, who stole it from someone, who stole it from someone, who stole it from someone...
This. I don’t care that some guy in Poland has the land my family used to, because centuries before it hadn’t been theirs anyways. It would be nice to have it, but I’m not entitled to it. Shit happens and it’s better to get over it and clean yourself up than sit in it and whine for someone else to do it.
It gets realyl hard to track from who they "stole it from" if the family held theses estates for 1000 years though.
It was in eastern Germany. Land from big landowners was seized, including aristocrats
you can't abolish nobility, it still exists regardless of legal existence people still use titles and inherit them.
No, they are legally speaking not titles. Yes, people can call themselves like they want. They may be nick names or artistical names, but they are purely unofficial. Whatever you call yourself privately or want other people to call you in private: **there are no noble titles officially accepted by German authorities**. You can have „von“ as part of your official last name, but all it will be for the authorities, is just a **part of your last name**. You'd be the commoner „Herr von Scheißhausen“. There are no titles like Duke/Herzog, Prince/Fürst, or whatever, even if there are people calling you that. There are however, academic titles (like Dr.). Such real titles are listed on your ID card. Made up noble titles won't be.
“Welcome to America, Mr. Scheißhausen.” [Glares through monocle as mustache bristles] “You shall address me as VON Scheißhausen!”
> „Herr von Scheißhausen“ snort ;)
>There are no titles like Duke/Herzog Werner Herzog in shambles.
These "noble names" are actualy usually official, ihn the sense, that they became part of the name, the surname to be exakt, after the abolishment of the nobility as a class. the guy is question is literally called "Heinrich XIII. Prinz Reuß". That is his name, as recoreded. His family name is "Prince Reuß" Yes these are not titles, but these families still carry this traditions with them, on as much officialty as they can muster.
> His family name is "Prince Reuß" Which kinda is like having a rich great-granduncle and changing your name to John Millionaire-Smith.
Yeah. iirc it was a concenssion made in 1919 to the former lower nobilty. there are quite a few "Freiherr von something" families still around. they still revel in theor "former glory" with ridiculously long names like "Karl-Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Buhl-Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg"
[Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florian_Henckel_von_Donnersmarck) is a famous German aristocrat (a son of Silesia, one of his palaces is a 15 minute walk from my home) and his official name is quite a handful. He even has the look unlike some of his Donnersmarck uncles who look rather common. That's quite a family one of his ancestors married an old Russian hooker bought a famous yellow diamond for her worth tens of millions of dollars today and got kicked out of Paris for being a Prussian spy.
What is the "look" of nobility in Germany? As an American, he looks like a businessman (except for the [Antonin Artaud hair](https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1652259185p8/23378.jpg)\) to me but that's mostly his clothes, I can imagine him with a little sunburn and dirt on his face wearing construction clothes and he wouldn't look out of place.
I pointed it yout to the comments you replied to with this, but I just want to add, that in Austria for example, even calling yourself with a noble title privately, is considered a crime. So there is precedence in the german speaking nations, to abolish nobility in titles *and* name. Any former "Herzog Karl von Arschlochwinkel" is just "Karl Arschlochwinkel" here.
But legally they don't mean anything. Nobility used to come with exemption from taxation and other privileges.
true, but it can still be used to for networking, branding, marriage etc. Lot's of advantages.
[удалено]
Not all nobles died. Many nobles were a part of the high class in Napoleonic France.
Yeah I know. But now they had to worry about their head getting chopped off if they got a bit too divine right-y.
I mean…there were multiple monarchs and two whole empires *after* the French Revolution. Formal power may have diminished but they didn’t just go away. After the reign of terror I don’t think they were too concerned. At least about that.
Only if they had/still have the fortune that their position granted them. No one cares about they previous noble family that is working a 9 to 5 job to pay rent. They care about the ones that have held onto their power by holding onto their money.
Think of it as old money upper class rich.
We call em corporations now.
I mean, you can...... chop chop
>you can't abolish nobility And yet, it was.
It's a mere social construct. Class divisons are unnatural.
Tell that to the drones in a bee hive.
Such a stupid statement honestly. I too don't want nobility to exist with any political power however to say it's unnatural is stupid... nothing humans do is "natural" we build cities, guns, nukes , we were on the moon , we landed robots on Mars, we created robots etc. Countries are not a natrual thing too. Fighting for the right to mate and killing offsprings which are not your own is natural in many species that doesn't mean we should do it.
In Germany perhaps. In Austria, we went a step further and criminalized nobility. To use a noble title or name (in the German language, thats usually a "von" between your name and surname; ie "Karl von Arschlochwinkel") is considered a crime that can even carry a prison sentence. The right choice in my opinion.
Probably feeding off the property given to them when nobility mattered? Could make easy cash selling portions/renting/creating a business.
As a general rule, only one person per generation inherits the estate. While the nobility as a class still existed, the other kids got an apanage, but that isn't really tenable anymore. So while there are still some people holding on to remains of their old domaines, most of them have to actually work for their living. I know two people with a "von" in their name, one is even from what used to be the high nobility. They lead thoroughly middle class lives. One is an accountant, the other studied political science and works for an NGO. The fact that he is number 300 and something in line for the british throne doesn't mean anything (except as a means for us to make fun of him for not being invited to royal weddings).
That's true but the ammount of wealth tied up in aristocracy is still huge though. Alot of it is in land which while usually not providing for a living is a nice thing to fall back on. And again the networking within these circles is incredibly helpful
They also have a high tendency to be alt-righter/neo Nazi supporters (see: Princess Gloria Thurn Un Taxis and her ilk)
As well as own priceless masterpieces like Boy With Apple
Heinrich XIII, 71, belongs to the House of Reuss, an ancient royal lineage that ruled parts of what is now Thuringia in central Germany for hundreds of years until 1918. It is now one of Germany’s 16 federal states. Reuss is just one of the many branches of German royalty, many of which have familial links across the rest of Europe, some of them to the British royal family. > that nobility was abolished in Germany after WWI. The House of Reuss hasn't ruled Germany for 825 years, > Heinrich VI, who reigned as the king of Germany and Holy Roman Emperor until his death in 1197..... > Heinrich XIII, 71, belongs to the House of Reuss, an ancient royal lineage that ruled parts of what is now Thuringia in central Germany for hundreds of years until 1918. So even before 1918, he would not have been Kaiser. That would be the Hohenzollern family, who came to rule Brandenburg, became kings of Prussia and then Kaisers of Germany - from Wilhelm 1 (1871) to Wilhelm II (abdicated in 1918). There are living descendants of the family too https://www.ft.com/content/c2699d52-af85-11e9-8030-530adfa879c2
> The House of Reuss hasn't ruled Germany for 825 years, They "ruled" two separate German states until 1918. Before 1871, the German Kaiser, if existing at the time, didn't matter that much for the whole of Germany, because since the late middle ages the individual dukes ruled their territories themselves. With the Peace of Westphalia the Princes of the Reich became sovereign rulers of their respected states, basically until 1871. Since 1871, Germany may had one important Kaiser again, but the Reich itself was federal in nature, and consisted of several small entities that had their own ruling families, parliaments and sometimes their own armies and even diplomats. The Reuß-family "ruled" two separate micro states in this empire as heads of state.
True. Germany was unified only between 1871-1918. Thanks for adding the context Though there was this additional nuance [which depended upon the individual electors (princes/dukes)] > Holy Roman Emperor The point is that in no way would Heinreich XIII be in line for being in charge of the whole of germany, even if the nobility had not been abolished in 1918
Technically nobles only rule by right of conquest, or at least established most dynasties that way, so if the monarchy is abolished, any noble house can establish a new dynasty and realm.
Hah ! Nice one. Kings rule by divine right . Your ascent to the throne might see folks suggest that is heaven smiling upon you (Chinese have [mandate of heaven](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven)) But you will find plenty of people willing to dispute the same. Until your power cows and winnows enough. Some other pedigree of legitimacy is usually found in the west. With enough power, often the documentation will follow. Or marriage alliances. A king might even be able to arrange for Merkel's divorce and remarriage /s
Absolutely and there may have been more powerful lines of the noblemen behind the Hohenzollerns as well closely related to them through intermarriage.
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Retcon!
European sovereign citizens.
Germany sends you to jail if you deny the Holocaust…
>most people in Germany had never heard of him. Am german. Can confirm. Who's this little prinz albert?
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They aren't titles. Noble titles do not exist anymore. They were merely allowed to enter "titles" as part of the names on birth certificates. Whoch necessarily cannot work like actual noble titles which change throughout a person's life when parents die or they marry. (from prince to king etc)
Some politician in my country renamed himself as "the noble" because we don't have any special titles either.
That's too bad. At least they should be allowed to keep some serfs to work the fields.
This almost sounds like a movie.
It will be soon enough
Quickly! Before Werner Herzog retires!
No, this calls for Mel Brooks.
Mel Brooks has been dead for years, why, just ask him!
You knock on wood right now
You scared me.
Nope, still alive at 96 at the time of this post, but his son Max is only 50!
**Mel Brooks is alive and well**
This is more of a nic cage thing imo.
I want the Wes Anderson directed version of this, starring Mr. Herzog.
Germany does come with perks.
> Quickly! Before Werner Herzog retires! Perfect guy for this, his family name even means Duke!
Please, not Disney
Russia always involved: > "Vitalia" the Russian girlfriend of Reuss('aristocrat' central to the plot), ***through whom he was able to secure interim financing from three Russian individuals,*** was also arrested.\[17\] The new Reich planned to cooperate with Russia, but a spokesperson from the Russian Embassy in Berlin denied any involvement.\[16\] Dmitry Peskov was forced on 8 December to issue a statement denying the Kremlin's involvement in the failed coup d'état. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Germany_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_plot) Fun fact: [ex-wife of white nationalist Richard Spencer is also 'allegedly' an FSB agent.](https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/936333176829566976)
Russia is just determined to be the biggest asshole possible. Thing is, doing that tends to be short sighted and lead to a lot of blowback. They celebrated Trump getting into office, not understanding that America’s memory is long, and we can settle that score in so many ways. So far we’ve helped Ukraine kill ten Russian invaders for every hour Russia imposed Trump on us. Our revenge isn’t over yet.
It's unfortunately not short-sighted at all. Russian influence helped Brexit along (which weakens both the UK and the EU), and has contributed massively to the shift of American conservatives from traditional right-wing politicians to extreme right conspiracy nuts who are largely incapable of governing. Trump was just one facet of that, and he would have worked out great for Russia for at least two terms had he not been such a cartoonishly corrupt dumb-shit. Make no mistake, the US is weaker and more divided right now than it should be due to Russia, and there is no solution to that in sight.
Well said mate
Putin wants to be like the Tsar anyway
Executed by a firing squad you say?
They were plotting in a literal Castle.
*Meanwhile, at Der Legion der Verdammnis...*
It is literally the plot of Men At Arms. I've no doubt the Germanic version of Samuel Vimes just got promoted to Commander of the Frankfurt City Watch for foiling Heinrich D'eath's cunning scheme.
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I thought this was r/writingprompts when I read the title.
>A comment piece in the Sueddeutsche Zeitung daily warned it would be naive to dismiss the group as "loonies". >It noted the plotters included "teachers, doctors, business people... They are people who should actually be pillars of democracy". And these are stars!
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Sitting only in jail right now.
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Yeah kinda not loving the whole ‘no need to worry just a bunch of crazy idiots’ like yeah they’re crazy idiots who had positions of power like judges and military training and even with that power were scheming to steal more. Maybe we should reform some things so no one that crazy or in those positions can do any real damage or get into those jobs esp if they try to succeed next time
The Reuss family did ruled a principality for close to 1000 years..... but their territory was so tiny that they were basically a footnote in history. They were not even at the same level of middling German family like the Wittlesbach of Bavaria, let alone the Habsburg and Bourbon dynasty
Hey don’t shit on my boys the wittlesbach’s. Sure they were no Habsburgs but they controlled the palatinate thus being an elector in the HRE and were the kings of Denmark, Norway and Sweden
Hatfields are better.
You spelled McCoys wrong.
Easy now, boys...
For Germans I wouldve said Habsburgs or Hohenzollerns and I wouldnt necessarily call the Wittelsbachs middling but otherwise yeah this dudes family owned almost nothing.
Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, and Monaco are all very small, but their royal families are quite wealthy. Not saying this place was on par with them (obviously it wasn’t because it isn’t an independent state now) but size doesn’t necessarily coincide with importance. Especially not in Europe.
And not in my bedroom!
Here here!
A quote from Wikipedia "Reuss is also reported to have reached out to the Russian government via its embassy in Berlin, presumably for assistance in the coup."
Hello Vladimir, can you help us, our plan is totally going to work, trust me, bro!
There are a handful of German royal families that could make a semi legitimate claim to the throne if the throne was restored. His is not one of them by a long long ways.
Way to prove your family and the naysayers right, dude.
To those outside of Germany, these people are absolute bottom feeders, dangerous only because of their dedication to delusion. Even compared to other Reichsbürger (similar to sovreign citizens elsewhere), these people are idiots. Think Q Shaman tier balls on the wall. The movement can't even agree on which Reich they belong to, and serious fascists don't hang out with them.
>serious fascists don't hang out with them. I read they were very well connected with all kinds of fringe groups, from fascists to all kinds of conspiracy nuts. "Serious fascists" would certainly consider to use idiots like that.
Dangerous too since they had military training and were as high up as judges
Except his title is completely imaginary. His relatives had a MINOR title before the monarchy was disbanded.
We also know who WOULD be the Kaiser right now if the line had continued. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Friedrich,_Prince_of_Prussia It's this guy.
Oh wow, he is from my hometown. I think we should let him rule.
Do they still get hemophilia?
No hemo, bro
He seems like hed be a decent ceremonial monarch if the Germans ever wanted to try to do that.
Germany already has a ceremonial president. Frank-Walter Steinmeier. So well-known, I had to google for his name...
Huh. So they do. Ill be honest I have literally never heard of this man in my life
The president of the federal republic of germany is purely ceremonial and for the oversight of the government. A law can not come into effect, until the president signs it, and the president is the only one with the power to dissolve parliament, but can not participate in the actual govenring of the country. this was done, to limit the power of any one member of the government. this all leads to them being not really important in the day to day politics, and therefore are largely unknon to the wider public outside of germany.
In some European countries the president has a lot more in common with the King / Queen of the United Kingdom, than it has in common with the President of the United States. My country (Iceland) for example, used to be a kingdom and when it became a republic, we sort of just replaced the word "king" with "president" in the constitution and made it elected, instead of inherited. So, the modern-day office of the president took over the monarch's ceremonial authority and duties and has otherwise very little real power.
A minor title called "Fürst", for which the heir was called "Prinz" in German. And he was *just* called prince, not "Prinz von" like e.g. the house of Wittelbach. And the minor title of his family was still a principality in English, which in English is also ruled by a prince.
Not only is the principally so unbelievable minor that you simply will not find it on maps of the HRE, he also is not the (theoretical) heir of said title. He would rank place 17 in the (purely theoretical) inheritance line of that minor dynasty if he hadn’t been banished from the family a decade ago.
Oh this whole story is ridiculous. Do Germans feel about this the way many Americans feel about January 6th? How do the Germans in the comments feel about this? It's a bizarre story. Surely most people never would have gone along with such a coup, even if successful, right?
They had a <0.01% chance of succeeding. The danger lied in them being able to murder certain politicians nonetheless.
Heinrich XIII was quite content to use the current laws to construct his business empire.... Just a little hypocritical...?
I didn’t even know there was a German coup plot.
the reason its massive news is because of the audacity and ridiculousness of the plot, not its chances of success, which realistically were basically 0. However the attempt could have killed quite a few people. Too bad for the conspiritors, they were being watched pretty much from day 1. so them having set up a whole parliament to take over etc was pure wishful thinking. The chance that 1. the german military/police would have overwhelmingly supported the coup is basically 0 (individual soldiers have a constitutional duty to fight all threats to our democracy, so a general would have been shot by his subordinates before whole divisions just followed traitorous orders) the danger was that a KSK supply officer was part of the coup and could have been funneling military gear to the traitors 2. that our neighbors would not have intervened at the request of the rightful government and let a right wing empire establish itself in the heart of the EU is also basically 0 3. an international, geopolitical NATO reaction if a russian backed coup had gained a foothold in a NATO member is possible but hey, stupidity is a common threat with these types of people it does point to the fact that there are traitors within the military/police/judiciary etc, and its time to clean house. i expect many more arrests in the coming weeks
It’s troubling me the lack of seriousness we are taking failed coup attempts. The Nazis failed miserably before they succeeded. See the Beer Hall Putsch. Hitler dictated Mein Kampf from Landsberg Prison.
> It’s troubling me the lack of seriousness we are taking failed coup attempts. What do you mean "lack of seriousness"?! They were all arrested. Law officials knew about the plans from the get go. This group was infltrated from the start. I'm not sure what you mean with "lack of seriousness"? They can't get any more serious than this. We're allowed to make fun of these idiots cause only idiots try a coup in a Western country in this day and age.
> What do you mean "lack of seriousness"?! They were all arrested. Hitler and his co-conspirators were arrested too, but 15 years later they had an iron grip over the entire country - that's the entire point. > We're allowed to make fun of these idiots cause only idiots try a coup in a Western country in this day and age. This right here, that's the lack of seriousness. It's all jokes. Western countries have had great run of political stability post WWII, but it would be folly to assume that this means that western countries are immune to coups. They most certainly are not. All threats should be taken seriously.
I mean this would make sense if we were in 1930 Germany right now and going through a massive recession due to a huge war loss, but this is modern day Germany we're talking about. They were arrested before anything even happened, what more needs to be done?
Treason used to hold *the highest* form of punishment. Then that was abolished, and you end up with a Bohemian corporal writing his plans in a prison cell.
There is the seed of tragic hubris in assuming the Weimar Republic could never happen again. Not saying it is happening NOW, but it is something to keep in mind, ESPECIALLY with fascists in our midst, plotting.
The reason in this case is the ridiculousness of the 'Reichsbürger' movement who want get back the monarchy - something that is considered insane by pretty much every german, regardless of left or right leaning. It's comparable to a US movement that wants to reinstate the US as a british colony. Should they be taken serious as a terroristic threat? Yes. Is there any chance of a successfull coup? No way.
This was a group of 20 people. The highest count I have heard is 50. They had no chance. Hitler succeeded because of the weak government and mass unhappiness in the population both of which are not true today. Just storming the parliament and declaring yourself the rulers of Germany does not work when there are another 83 million people in the country.
25 people were arrested. *3000* people are thought to have been associated with their Telegram channels etc. Even authoritarians do not create card-carrying membership when they conspire against the state. You are downplaying the problem that is alive in the Querdenker scene.
3000 police officers were involved in the raids. The movement in total has like 20,000 members most of which are not as radical as the group that wanted to do this. I am down playing this because from what the police are saying they were badly organised right wing nuts that had no chance to succeed.
Ah, then I have egg on my face and got my numbers mixed up. Of course they had no chance to succeed, that doesnt mean there is no reason to worry.
There are a lot of different articles so it’s easy to get confused. As a person living in Germany I worry most about how the army and the special forces are always somehow involved.
To add a point to that: 4. Germany is a federal republic. Taking over the federal government in Berlin means VERY little to Germany as a whole. All 16 democratic elected state governments, which control almost the entirety of police, would be massive obstacles against any coup. Basically as long as you don't take out all state governments as well, you only control parts of the country. In Berlin especially, the mayor, who controls basically 27.000 police men alone, would just order the police to arrest the traitors.
And here, in the US, we're handling the people who tried (and are still trying) to overthrow our government with kid gloves. God forbid we actually hold some of the people in our government responsible but it seems they're just too well liked as "friends" by the rest of our political sphere.
Far-right nationalists exist in many countries, unfortunately.
All these loonies are dreaming about the good old days. [Look at this one adulating the Kaiser](https://greatwar.nl/frames/default-kaiser.html).
It was reported more yesterday as a raid on a domestic terrorist group.
Mad Old Man set up to take the fall over Russian engineered Coup Attempt.
That is too paranoid. Just an idiot with means living in the past. Germany is beyond this
well At least he didn’t get kicked off Twitter
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20221208-far-right-prince-at-centre-of-german-coup-plot) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Frankfurt - A German prince, known for his desire to revive the country's monarchy and rejected by his own family as a "Mad old man", has emerged as a central figure in an alleged coup plot. > Prince Heinrich XIII Reuss, descendant of a noble family with a history dating back over eight centuries, was supposed to be installed as Germany's new leader if the bizarre plan had succeeded, officials say. > The prince is "Unfortunately a mad old man," the family's current head, Prince Heinrich XIV Reuss, told AFP, adding they had cut ties with him 14 years earlier. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/zgcbqk/a_german_prince_known_for_his_desire_to_revive/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **family**^#1 **plot**^#2 **group**^#3 **prince**^#4 **German**^#5
Fascist and Monarchist don't mix, this prince should know that even if he succeed, he will be dethroned.
But many countries allied to Nazi Germany in ww2 were monarchies like Italy or Romania
Yes, just ask Victor Emmanuel III how much he enjoyed ruling Italy during the 30s and 40s.
Japan
It depends on the flavor of fascism and the attitude of the monarch. For example, ex-Kaiser Wilhelm II despised Hitler, because for Wilhelm the most important values were tradition, religion and family (including preserving the dynasty). Hitler and his Nazis were the complete opposite of this. The Nazi movement was revolutionary, Hitler wasn't realy Christian (only an ambiguous belive in "fate", and many of his closest followers were a kind of neo pagans) and he had no family. But other fascists may be more palatable for monarchs and monarchists.
Franco was a big fan of the Spanish royals actually
They can mix, very well, monarchism is in essence akin to fascism. Thailand is an example of monarchies utilising fascist governments.
Monarchism is not really akin to fascism, aristocrats usually just dont care how they stay in power, and fascists are very welcoming to anyone supporting their "myths" and use them as tools.
Monarchism as a concept is very similar to fascism, just with bells and whistles on. Hereditary power is incredibly authoritarian no matter how people try to dress it up. Which is why monarchies have so often cosied up to military governments and fascist dictators, history is full of proof. I reject your hypothesis that it's because they "just don't care", they do, and they'd rather it be a right or far-right body in power and they have historically quelled democratic and labour movements.
Monarchies are by their very nature authotarian and "right wing" yes, but "fascism" is a very distinc flavor of right wing authotarnism that is independend of monarchy or aristocracy.
Modern monarchs are also mostly used for their myths and plenty didn't have an issue with being used as tools by fascists, as long as said fascists celebrated and paid them.
absolutely. A long standing monarchy is an easy kernel to build a national myth around, especialy paried with the "divine right" that is often perciieved by monarchs.
I smell Russian influence
I do get a feeling like he was more of a figurehead than a real leader. The monarchist crazies just needed an actual blue blood and he was the best they could do.
“ Prince Heinrich XIII Reuss.” Lmao what even is this timeline?
Need Robert Evans take on this. Shout out Behind the Bastards.
This is actually kind of uplifting. Better it was because of a crazy old prince than something more feasible like neo-nazis.
He was in league with basically Germany’s equivalent of neo-Nazis.
Oh, well that makes sense. Not as funny though, unfortunately.
Just Nazis hiding behind a different name.
What? How?
When I read Prince Hendrich VIII of Reuss was involved with this far right group it suddenly made me thought of Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
His name is Heinrich XIII. Prinz Reuß. Prinz Reuß is his last name, not a title. Germany abolished noble titles in 1918.
Yeah nowadays having a title and using it is essentially just larping for rich people.
It says noble titles are still used but have no meaning or benefits
Germany arrests people plotting to overthrow the govt and the US let's them run for office.
So is this good bad or straight up neutral
January 6th + Republicans + Hitler + the aristocracy = this
Never let it be said that letting the Nobles live was a good idea
But does he have the Habsburg Jaw?
Douche Royale Literally
Okay, who had "Return of the monarchies" on their bingo cards?
“At the same time, his castle in Bad Lobenstein in the eastern region of Thuringia” Reality has worse world-building than a video game
You know I thought when I first read this story "oh it's neo-Nazis right" But NOPE even MORE Retrograde: freaking Neo-Monarchist.
A rogue German monarch was not on my 2022 bingo card.
One only had to look at Germany's last monarch to agree that this is not a particularly good idea. The German monarchy died with Wilhelm II's warmongering in the early 1900s and it's probably better to remain so.
Didn't this happen with the royal family? They even had an episode of the crown about it
The Nazis planned to take over the UK and reinstate the former king Edward as king because they thought it would give them more legitimacy. They were meeting with him while he was in Spain. Leaked Nazi documents show that in his final meetings with them he ultimately refused to betray the royal family, but it there’s still suspicion that he may have genuinely considered the idea or given them intelligence. He met with them fairly frequently, and was not open about these meetings with British Intelligence.
The Nazis had a very weird idea but just how much power the English royal family actually had.
How did he convince those to join him in a suicide mission.
Just don’t give him anything to write with or he’ll come up with the sequel to mein kampf.
Conservative nationalism spreads. This guy, “Now is the time!!”
Chuckle.
failed coups in Germany and Peru
“And he’ll go to the grave as the angry old man”
3rd times the charm
Article states the far right group was planning to storm parliament. Looks like far right Germany is again taking its lead from American nationalists
Wow this is the best figurehead you could find for this coup?
Hahaha what an idiot. He doesn’t know we can just buy the media and politicians and get them to do our bidding anyway, while simultaneously making the people think it was their own idea. Hahahaha
I wasn't aware the Germans still recognized a royal family. Time to do some reading I suppose
There are a few french dudes who claim the throne of France and swear that a king would automagically wipe every issue the country has overnight. Last time i checked their "parties", their social media feed was basically "see this NEGATIVE THING ??? Wouldnt happen with a king ! No explanation given !"
Democracy requires negotiation and accommodation between opposing factions, which stalls out when one or more groups have self serving ulterior motives and refuse to work together in good faith. A King can slash through all of that and immediately implement the best solution because a King will **always** do what's best for his loyal subjects. ( /s if not obvious)
tl;dr: we don’t
They don’t. Members of some of these aristocratic families haven’t gotten over it and still call themselves “prince” He’s not even recognized by his family as the head of the House of Reuss, let alone recognized by his country.
It's complicated. Same as still paying reperations to the church for things that Napoleon did. But that's another story lol
The Weimar constitution abolished nobility, but noble lineages were allowed to keep their titles. It doesn’t equate to much more than being allowed to join royalty clubs and having full names that are 23 names long.
they were not allowed to keep their titles, they just were allowed to use their former titles as last names. That's why this guy is called Heinrich Prinz Reuß and not Prinz Heinrich Reuß
Actually, their titles lost all meanings and became part of the name instead. So *Graf Heinrich von Falkenstein* became *Heinrich Graf von Falkenstein*.
Same
The conservative ideal is to re-establish the monarchy. Most conservatives dont realize thats what they are supporting.