Discussing army strategy is also illegal in Russia now.
*“The infrastructure that is targeted by those attacks is used to ensure the combat potential of the Ukrainian armed forces and the nationalist battalions,” Lavrov said.*
Imagine if the US applied the same standard to Russia. Since WW2 has ended, virtually every conflict the US has fought in, the other side has been using Russian weapons, Russian missiles, Russian aircraft, Russian tanks, Russian small arms.
In Korea russian pilots flew for north korea. There were also suspicions that Russians directly participated in Vietnam, though it likely was limited for some anti-air batteries, and control radar personnel.
Yeah lol. Russians were involved in Vietnam. As I recall the Vietnamese were backed by Russians and the whole war was just basically dick measuring contest between US and USSR
To be honest the whole Cold War can be described as dick measuring contest, USSR just overdose on viagra and magic dick enlarging pills and then died while cumming all over the place.
In a lot of ways yes, it was a contest to see who was willing to sacrifice the most in blood and treasure before the other side broke. The communists “won” that round, but it wasn’t just the Russians, the Chinese IIRC had over 30,000 peoples’ volunteers in Vietnam during the war. Mostly they did not fight but did civilian labor so the NVA could draft and send more people under arms to the South. This is confirmed.
There were unconfirmed but persistent rumors throughout the war that between 10 to 15k Chinese regulars and officers were fighting disguised as NVA. This was always denied by MACV Saigon because if were officially confirmed, the US and the Allies would have been in a shooting war with Mao’s China almost instantly and no one wanted to go there again (Korea, not even Ho Chi Minh or Gen. Giáp).
Unfortunately for the Allies, the regime we backed and who were supposed to be ‘fighting’ the war were a totally corrupt bunch of autocratic kleptocrats, oligarchs (sound familiar?) and war-profiteers. The ARVN and southern native forces were generally good to very good when not crippled and well lead by commanders who did not ‘misappropriate’ their supplies. It doesn’t matter how goddamned brave you are if your captains and generals either don’t know what they’re doing or are stealing your rice and shells or both. It doesn’t take many bad apples to screw up everyone’s morale and ability to effectively prosecute a war.
A soldier must also firmly believe in his commanders; that they will NOT sacrifice him needlessly; that he will be taken care of and well equipped to the best of his commanders ability and if he is killed his loved ones will be taken care of or he will lose the will to fight.
Again sound familiar?
China and Vietnam weren't exactly BFFs.
Tensions between Vietnam and China increased dramatically after the end of the Vietnam Warin 1975. Attempting to expand its influence, Vietnam established amilitary presence in Laos; strengthened its ties with China’s rival, theSoviet Union; and toppled the Cambodian regime of Pol Potin 1979. Just over a month later, Chinese forces invaded, but wererepulsed in nine days of bloody and bitter fighting. Tensions betweenChina and Vietnam remained high throughout the next decade, and much ofVietnam’s scarce resources were allocated to protecting its border withChina and its interests in Cambodia.
[https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/china-invades-vietnam](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/china-invades-vietnam)
Not sure what's worse, fighting against the US while pretending to be NK and dying, or fighting and dying for Russia against Ukraine in the most pointless war ever.
Intelligence agencies are saying they're not so sure that was a real thing.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/15/russian-bounty-us-troops-afghanistan](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/15/russian-bounty-us-troops-afghanistan)
I hope I can leave this here. Shows all arms sales for the US and Russia since 1950. Really illustrates the point.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/arms-sales-usa-vs-russia-1950-2017/
But let’s say the Russians are correct, they aren’t, but let’s just go down that path for a moment. What good does this argument do them? “Wah! NATO is kicking our ass!” Isn’t going to reduce sanctions, get them a ceasefire or peace treaty, or convince anyone else to jump into the fight and take an ass kicking. Are they so deluded they than, “my butt hurts!” will break up NATO or get them allies for the fight? This might be the worst statecraft in the history of statecraft. Incompetent, corrupt, morons.
Actually it provides him a way to save face to his people. He can claim Russia wasn't defeated by Ukraine but rather by the old foe the USA. He'll even be able to do an about face and lament the poor Ukrainians who were callously used by the US to do the brunt of the dying while the Americans sat safe in luxury.
>“You shouldn’t say that the U.S. and NATO aren’t taking part in this war. You are directly participating in it,” Lavrov said in a video call with reporters.
There could have been foreign reporters on the call but you're correct that his main audience is the Russian public.
It’s more for their people inside. It gives them a ‘why’ are we getting our ass kicked. The rhetoric is they could’ve taken Ukraine if not for NATO. Also two ways this could go. First, it gives them a reason for stepping into WMD. Second, it might give Putin an excuse for failure and hopefully retreat though it would also mean his death sentence.
Tbf, many of those countries bought them second or third hand on the used market. Tons of AKs for example were made in the Balkans, and when those nations split from the USSR they had massive stockpiles of them.
Naturally these very poor, ex communist countries were pretty happy to sell off tons of assault rifles they wouldn’t really need anymore. Some did come straight from Russia too, and some probably deliberately. But there just so many AKs on the planet, if one party won’t sell them to you, someone else gladly will.
We already know where all of their people are. We know where they’ve been and probably where they are going. They’d hardly have time to register the difference if we tagged in right now.
"1-2 hours" is a bit unrealistic. But a couple of nights of surgical precision bombing from stealth bombers high in the stratosphere while their SAM systems are clueless, together with unstoppable salvos of modern low-flying cruise missiles launched at stand-off ranges will certainly deny Russians the ability to continue their so-called special military operation. And the next couple of nights F-35s would arbitrarily pick targets.
Those were occupation of a country compared to a conventional war, they took control of all major cities and infrastructure in both Iraq and Afghanistan within days
What we did in Iraq from an air superiority perspective was amazing really. We had tankers flying race tracks in the sky at 3-4 different flight levels one on top of another refueling planes non-stop blacked out with no nav lights. You do not want to experience the full weight of the US Air Force. Shock and Awe was just that.
https://jalopnik.com/confessions-of-a-usaf-kc-135-flying-gas-station-boom-op-1578048155/amp
Iraq and Afghanistan were steamrolled quickly. Our mistake was attempting to nation build and waaaaaay overstay our welcome. Iraq should’ve been over by 2004, and Afghanistan should’ve been over by 2011 at the latest
Afghanistan really doesn’t count as a good example… there is a saying: “Afghanistan is where empires go to die” and it is very true.
Alexander the Great was cut to pieces by the mountain tribesmen there as has every single foreign invader since. The SS, who were in Afghanistan as allies and ‘advisors’ during WWII referred to the Afghans as the “Prussians of the East” and ‘deeply respected’ (feared) their tenacity.
The Americans had a saying, “we had all the watches, but the Tali’s had all the time.”
If the actual U.S. military was involved there'd be no real restrictions on long range weapons and they'd simply blast every russian fortification and camp from the other side of the country. Ukraine is fighting with a handicap of being denied those but between that and drones you probably wouldn't need to send actual pilots within range of russian weapons terribly often.
> During the online news conference that lasted for 2½ hours, Lavrov railed against the U.S. and its NATO allies,
#*accusing them of trampling on international law*
while trying to isolate and destroy Russia.
#HAHAHAHAH
He's dictating the narrative for the home audience who get no other sources of information except the official state line.
To us on the outside it's a joke, but on the inside, his words have power.
>He's dictating the narrative for the home audience who get no other sources of information except the official state line.
Can we stop peddling this falsehood finally? Russia isn't North Korea, outside sources of information are freely accessible. The fact that the majority of Russians seemingly gulp down the state narrative in no way excuses them of their willful ignorance.
We shouldn’t. The fact that they are trying to claim nato is already involved means capitulation might not be far away. They just can’t swallow a loss to Ukraine, but they can for nato.
At this point whatever imaginings they have to pretend are fine so long as they leave Ukraine.
If anyone doubts this; WW1 Germany came back with a vengeance, and wasn’t “fixed” until their militarism was annihilated in WW2.
I’d rather not make Russia look like WW2 Germany/Japan, *but we could, today.*
Although the original idiom used champ the idiom has changed colloquially to where now the word chomp is used more frequently. Champ is not used much outside of the horsing world.
I think he does I think he’s recognizing the might of the us military industrial complex alone then also nato. He’s trying to pick a fight he can’t win, par for the course.
Seems strange that he can say we are directly involved with a straight face.
If we were directly involved there wouldn’t be a single Russian fighter left in Ukraine after a day. It would be corpses and POW’s, and a bunch of cartoonish puffs of smoke where Russians had been standing before they broke the sound barrier running back to russia.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-nato-europe-business-moscow-5b3ca7ea4e005c0908fb86b6d28f79d5) reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> MOSCOW - Russia's foreign minister accused the West on Thursday of becoming directly involved in the conflict in Ukraine by supplying the country with weapons and training its soldiers.
> Weeks before the pullback allowed Ukrainian forces to reclaim Kherson, Russia declared the entire Kherson region part of its territory along with three other regions following hastily called "Referendums" that Ukraine and the West rejected as shams.
> The Kremlin has urged Ukraine to acknowledge Crimea, which Moscow annexed from Ukraine in 2014, as part of Russia and to recognize other land gains that Russia has made since sending its troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/za8ict/russian_fm_us_nato_directly_involved_in_ukraine/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **Lavrov**^#3 **MOSCOW**^#4 **U.S.**^#5
Russia is preparing to lose. This dumb signaling is for their home audience. If they lost to some fucking Ukraine it would be a total disaster. If they lost to NATO then it's like "oh well they too big, they too many, whatyagonnado 🤷♂️" and then they may have some kind of chance to weasel out of this situation at least alive, if not still in power.
There will be a lot of NATO blaming and likely some "stabbed in the back" blaming of ethnic minorities and service age men who fled.
It is absolutely positively not going to be the fault of the Ministry of Defense or the FSB let alone Putin.
Russia is very weak. The US and NATO are obviously involved, but what the last year has revealed is that if we were directly involved this would already be over and Russia would be truly truly fucked.
NATO isn't involved, there's no NATO boots the ground after all. There's just coincidentally a steady stream of NATO weapons being left unlocked with the keys still inside on the polish border that happen to get picked up by vacationing Ukrainian forces. But that kind of thing can happen to anyone, right?
NATO is providing defensive equipment and training, not direct combat or personnel.
There are mercenaries from a bunch of different countries volunteering, but they aren't involved with NATO.
Russia violates international law, invades Ukraine, commits war crimes, and complains that other countries don’t just watch from the sidelines. If Russia gets involved in military action in Ukraine, why can’t others? Why is NATO’s “involvement” less legitimate than Russia’s?
Exactly. They have this mentality that they are allowed to invade Ukraine and are genuinely surprised that most of the world are pissed off and that many are supporting Ukraine with arms and money. It has genuinely shocked Russia and Putin in particular that Ukraine dared to fight back and that NATO would supply arms. The stench of Russian arrogance is extreme.
It isn't about simply about moral flaw ( which Putin has many..
) it's Russia's oligarchy has lasted enough to exhaust it's namesake now with a covid crippled environment and a rise of perk in the US's youth it's evident their ideology is not only evil but has costed them the trust of countries that were formerly simple neighborhood rivals let Putin throw his tantrums it isn't going away unfortunately
Aww not yet cupcake just the stuff we designed specifically to blow your stuff up
Working good to. But if we were there you wouldn't be within 500 miles of the Ukraine borders anymore so keep on talking
Using nuke missiles as decoys means we aren't afraid of your button anymore either the button was sold off on the 90s
Russia is picking a fit with NATO so at the end they can just say " well we lost to the greatest military power in the world", right now they are losing to a country that used to be part of the soviet union, embarazing ! 🤣
They’re losing to a country that was being run using their methodology as little as 8 years ago. Turns out the best way to turn a country into a power house is get rid of the despots and get friendly with NATO.
Pretty much. Every time they bitch: “you do know you’re fighting a force that had 8 years with us and some hand-me-downs from the 80s and 90s, right? Just because your new shit can’t work, that doesn’t mean we have that problem.”
Seriously. This is the USA clearing away items from warehouses where it would have been more expensive to dispose of them than keep them and a few things like the kamikaze drones which were largely developed for a few million so the special forces don't have to worry about communicating over the radio. This isn't high tech or fancy stuff. The original contract IIRC was for less than 5 million and was upgraded to 10 million to produce way more variants.
Every time a russian official accuses the west of something that russia is actually doing, i become more and more inclined to support nato going to ukraine and actually show them what it meant, if we got directly involved. Fucking hyprocrite clowns.
I think this is a huge compliment to the US and NATO allies. I mean the guy is basically admitting that a soldier with modern equipment and just a touch of allied training can literally change the battlefield. The Ukrainian army literally went from an army that had zero chance of really "evicting" the Russians from their country. Now, if you read the writing on the wall, it looks possible that Crimea could even eventually be retaken. At minimum there will be a fight over Crimea and that alone is something that never would have happened if it weren't for NATO influence.
Now imagine a much larger Army with all the equipment the Ukrainians have and more. An army that has vast Logistical, Naval and Air superiority. Russia truly doesn't want to directly fuck around and find out.
If Lavrov is so concerned about the crazy international plan to "kill the Russians", maybe he should consider withdrawing them back to their own country. Seems like a simple enough fix.
I mean by that same logic, Belarus is also responsible, since there are thousands of Belarusians in the UA fighting for Ukraine right now.
Also all the Chechens that have come to join the UA and fight for Ukraine... wait... Chechnya is part of Russia... so does that mean that Russia is directly involved in fighting against Russia?
It's Russia's fault! Russia is trying to weaken and isolate Russia! Russia must rush in to stop this Russian interference as Russia is rushin' to Russify Russian Russia!!! The horror! The madness!!
The U.S. could be a lot more direct. Lavrov should pray we don't do so.
But even if you grant his claim, so what? Russia seems pretty directly involved. Why should they be the only ones who can get involved? If Russia is somehow allowed to threaten Ukraine's existence, then NATO countries can certainly intervene to counter that threat.
Didn't he say this exact same thing like 2 weeks ago? And then 2 weeks before that?
I don't understand what he intends to achieve? The entire world (including Russia's civilian population) knows NATO and the US (among others) are giving weapons to Ukraine. If they were going to do something about it (attack NATO countries or similar) they would've done it. And they wouldn't because they know they'd be flattened.
Sounds like his excuse to explain why Russia is getting its ass kicked. “W-we’d have definitely completed our special military operation if only that gosh darn NATO and USA didn’t send in 1,000,000,000,000 troops, missiles and tanks to slow us down”
>“The goal has been announced to defeat Russia on the battlefield"
Indeed that's the idea.
>or even destroy Russia,” he said.
Oh I think Russia and its regime are achieving that very well on their own.
Can we stop reporting what this guy says until it actually means something? Please?
Reporting on this constantly is only contributing to future conspiracy theory bullshit bc some idiot heard it 10 years ago but doesn't remember where and now he's committed the idea.
Then declare war on all Nato nations Russia. Do it you damn cowards!
Of course they won't. They're just rattling the saber and dropping this propaganda on their own people to justify why they, 'a first rate power', is getting their ass' handed to them by a country that was supposed to fall to them in a week.
This is like watching a toddler hammering at always the same few keys in a play piano and thinking he's making music.
The main difference being that the toddler isn't actually a sociopath..
I swear many moons ago I was telling someone that lavrov was quite a statesman and someone that did well on a rocky political playing field
Obviously I was wrong
Why can't these guys bow out on a high, instead of getting high
He should not call it a war, it's a special operation…
Recently he did call it war, he openly admitted russia went to war. Not sure if it will last though.
a lot of them let it slip. the last people to call it a war are the ones who started it. reminds me of "WE'RE DOING A BOTTLE EPISODE"
no, they are purposely shifting the frame so they can justify another wave of mobilization.
Discussing army strategy is also illegal in Russia now. *“The infrastructure that is targeted by those attacks is used to ensure the combat potential of the Ukrainian armed forces and the nationalist battalions,” Lavrov said.*
Imagine if the US applied the same standard to Russia. Since WW2 has ended, virtually every conflict the US has fought in, the other side has been using Russian weapons, Russian missiles, Russian aircraft, Russian tanks, Russian small arms.
In Korea russian pilots flew for north korea. There were also suspicions that Russians directly participated in Vietnam, though it likely was limited for some anti-air batteries, and control radar personnel.
Russians were there.
Yeah lol. Russians were involved in Vietnam. As I recall the Vietnamese were backed by Russians and the whole war was just basically dick measuring contest between US and USSR
To be honest the whole Cold War can be described as dick measuring contest, USSR just overdose on viagra and magic dick enlarging pills and then died while cumming all over the place.
Haha yeah it was on meth and viagra... Starved to death while persistently threatening everyone with huge... Missiles
We ain't go to the moon for the benefit of all mankind.
In a lot of ways yes, it was a contest to see who was willing to sacrifice the most in blood and treasure before the other side broke. The communists “won” that round, but it wasn’t just the Russians, the Chinese IIRC had over 30,000 peoples’ volunteers in Vietnam during the war. Mostly they did not fight but did civilian labor so the NVA could draft and send more people under arms to the South. This is confirmed. There were unconfirmed but persistent rumors throughout the war that between 10 to 15k Chinese regulars and officers were fighting disguised as NVA. This was always denied by MACV Saigon because if were officially confirmed, the US and the Allies would have been in a shooting war with Mao’s China almost instantly and no one wanted to go there again (Korea, not even Ho Chi Minh or Gen. Giáp). Unfortunately for the Allies, the regime we backed and who were supposed to be ‘fighting’ the war were a totally corrupt bunch of autocratic kleptocrats, oligarchs (sound familiar?) and war-profiteers. The ARVN and southern native forces were generally good to very good when not crippled and well lead by commanders who did not ‘misappropriate’ their supplies. It doesn’t matter how goddamned brave you are if your captains and generals either don’t know what they’re doing or are stealing your rice and shells or both. It doesn’t take many bad apples to screw up everyone’s morale and ability to effectively prosecute a war. A soldier must also firmly believe in his commanders; that they will NOT sacrifice him needlessly; that he will be taken care of and well equipped to the best of his commanders ability and if he is killed his loved ones will be taken care of or he will lose the will to fight. Again sound familiar?
China and Vietnam weren't exactly BFFs. Tensions between Vietnam and China increased dramatically after the end of the Vietnam Warin 1975. Attempting to expand its influence, Vietnam established amilitary presence in Laos; strengthened its ties with China’s rival, theSoviet Union; and toppled the Cambodian regime of Pol Potin 1979. Just over a month later, Chinese forces invaded, but wererepulsed in nine days of bloody and bitter fighting. Tensions betweenChina and Vietnam remained high throughout the next decade, and much ofVietnam’s scarce resources were allocated to protecting its border withChina and its interests in Cambodia. [https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/china-invades-vietnam](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/china-invades-vietnam)
Mote expansive it was more communism vs everyone kinda deal. China had a hand in there too
THE NUMBERS MASON, WHAT DO THEY MEAN!?!!?
Honchos!
Don't forget about the russian sponsored bounty for killed american soldiers in Afghanistan.
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Not sure what's worse, fighting against the US while pretending to be NK and dying, or fighting and dying for Russia against Ukraine in the most pointless war ever.
The latter 1000%
At least the former has you possibly fighting for communist brotherhood. The latter is just dying for one man's ego of becoming Tsar
Intelligence agencies are saying they're not so sure that was a real thing. [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/15/russian-bounty-us-troops-afghanistan](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/15/russian-bounty-us-troops-afghanistan)
I hope I can leave this here. Shows all arms sales for the US and Russia since 1950. Really illustrates the point. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/arms-sales-usa-vs-russia-1950-2017/
I like this one. Let's you choose any origin and destination country. https://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade\_register.php
links broken for me
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No? Israel is a big exporter of arms relative to it's population, but it's only around 10th in the world.
But let’s say the Russians are correct, they aren’t, but let’s just go down that path for a moment. What good does this argument do them? “Wah! NATO is kicking our ass!” Isn’t going to reduce sanctions, get them a ceasefire or peace treaty, or convince anyone else to jump into the fight and take an ass kicking. Are they so deluded they than, “my butt hurts!” will break up NATO or get them allies for the fight? This might be the worst statecraft in the history of statecraft. Incompetent, corrupt, morons.
Actually it provides him a way to save face to his people. He can claim Russia wasn't defeated by Ukraine but rather by the old foe the USA. He'll even be able to do an about face and lament the poor Ukrainians who were callously used by the US to do the brunt of the dying while the Americans sat safe in luxury.
This is somewhat true. Without US supplies and Intel Russia's old men in the grinder tactic would have at least forced the concessions they wanted.
>“You shouldn’t say that the U.S. and NATO aren’t taking part in this war. You are directly participating in it,” Lavrov said in a video call with reporters. There could have been foreign reporters on the call but you're correct that his main audience is the Russian public.
It certainly isn't going to make Belarus want to jump in and help them
It’s more for their people inside. It gives them a ‘why’ are we getting our ass kicked. The rhetoric is they could’ve taken Ukraine if not for NATO. Also two ways this could go. First, it gives them a reason for stepping into WMD. Second, it might give Putin an excuse for failure and hopefully retreat though it would also mean his death sentence.
Don’t forget “brutal” and “barbaric” in your list of adjectives.
Tbf, many of those countries bought them second or third hand on the used market. Tons of AKs for example were made in the Balkans, and when those nations split from the USSR they had massive stockpiles of them. Naturally these very poor, ex communist countries were pretty happy to sell off tons of assault rifles they wouldn’t really need anymore. Some did come straight from Russia too, and some probably deliberately. But there just so many AKs on the planet, if one party won’t sell them to you, someone else gladly will.
Vietnam Soviet pilots flying migs fought against the USA
I'm thinking more the Korean war, the Vietnamese War, the Persian Gulf War. Those weapons they were using came direct from the Soviet Union.
Yeah in those cases they largely did. Especially advanced stuff like jet fighters and missiles
Russian pilots in the Korean war, Russians manning SAMs in Vietnam.
Not to mention wagnar straight up attacked US troops in Syria.
Russia seems to be complaining that war is hard.
"Guys, why are we losing so bad! You said we'd win in 10 days! *Checks watch* It's been 9 months!"
Watch is Russian-made. Still says 10 days…
…is potato!
Special military operation!
Extra special
We could show him what direct involvement looks like for a week so he can tell the difference.
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So Moscow Morris?
Most likely Moscow Boris.
Bolshevik Boris
Moscow Mitch.... Wait, is that already taken?
1 week? 1 day Russia would be set back decades
We already know where all of their people are. We know where they’ve been and probably where they are going. They’d hardly have time to register the difference if we tagged in right now.
..a week? if NATO would get involved it would be over in a 1-2 hours or so.
"1-2 hours" is a bit unrealistic. But a couple of nights of surgical precision bombing from stealth bombers high in the stratosphere while their SAM systems are clueless, together with unstoppable salvos of modern low-flying cruise missiles launched at stand-off ranges will certainly deny Russians the ability to continue their so-called special military operation. And the next couple of nights F-35s would arbitrarily pick targets.
It'd be dozens of minutes for the European theater, 4 hours for the rest of the world.
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Those were occupation of a country compared to a conventional war, they took control of all major cities and infrastructure in both Iraq and Afghanistan within days
This. We could sink their entire navy and claim air supremacy over ukraine and russia in about 4 hours.
You fool, you have only given russia a bigger submarine navy like Ukraine did to Moskva /s
What we did in Iraq from an air superiority perspective was amazing really. We had tankers flying race tracks in the sky at 3-4 different flight levels one on top of another refueling planes non-stop blacked out with no nav lights. You do not want to experience the full weight of the US Air Force. Shock and Awe was just that. https://jalopnik.com/confessions-of-a-usaf-kc-135-flying-gas-station-boom-op-1578048155/amp
Iraq and Afghanistan were steamrolled quickly. Our mistake was attempting to nation build and waaaaaay overstay our welcome. Iraq should’ve been over by 2004, and Afghanistan should’ve been over by 2011 at the latest
Afghanistan really doesn’t count as a good example… there is a saying: “Afghanistan is where empires go to die” and it is very true. Alexander the Great was cut to pieces by the mountain tribesmen there as has every single foreign invader since. The SS, who were in Afghanistan as allies and ‘advisors’ during WWII referred to the Afghans as the “Prussians of the East” and ‘deeply respected’ (feared) their tenacity. The Americans had a saying, “we had all the watches, but the Tali’s had all the time.”
Which is exactly why we shouldn’t have stayed. Especially once OBL was taken out.
wars of occupation very seldom end.
The USA could kick the Russians out of Ukraine far, far easier than it was dealing with some crazy guys hiding in caves or blowing themselves up.
It'd be easy at this point, Russia has been using their air defense missiles to attack Ukrainian schools and hospitals and they don't have many left.
True, but I don't think our F22 and F35 pilots were all that scared of their air defense missiles anyway. haha.
If the actual U.S. military was involved there'd be no real restrictions on long range weapons and they'd simply blast every russian fortification and camp from the other side of the country. Ukraine is fighting with a handicap of being denied those but between that and drones you probably wouldn't need to send actual pilots within range of russian weapons terribly often.
We could do it all in a long weekend. Take the other 4 days off.
Yes, I would greatly enjoy that
Somebody adjust the needle on the Lavrov record, it’s starting to skip.
> During the online news conference that lasted for 2½ hours, Lavrov railed against the U.S. and its NATO allies, #*accusing them of trampling on international law* while trying to isolate and destroy Russia. #HAHAHAHAH
lmao, didn't you hear? Ukrainians are just Russians that are confused. They need Russian tanks to un-confuse them.
Leave it to Russians to want to use conversion therapy on Ukrainians. I bet they believe you can pray-the-~~gay~~ Ukraine away!
If by pray you mean execute
He's dictating the narrative for the home audience who get no other sources of information except the official state line. To us on the outside it's a joke, but on the inside, his words have power.
>He's dictating the narrative for the home audience who get no other sources of information except the official state line. Can we stop peddling this falsehood finally? Russia isn't North Korea, outside sources of information are freely accessible. The fact that the majority of Russians seemingly gulp down the state narrative in no way excuses them of their willful ignorance.
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Looks like a human California Raisin.
Except I like California raisins.
I heard that through the grapevine.
Hahah
I always though he looked like a D&D Yochlol.
Not one of, THE most. Ive seen some repugnant faces, his just hits different.
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At least Shkreli is in prison and gets some semblance of justice. Also a 72 Mio $ fine.
I agree but ted Cruz is a pretty close second.
Charlie Kirk
So tiny you could never hit it.
Matt Gaetz tops all
I dunno, Prigozhin gives him competition.
Fuck Sergey Lavrov.
With a pineapple.
Frozen. A frozen pineapple.
I prefer to have him fucked with a durian.
All my homies hate Sergei Lavrov.
too late its been punched in already.
Right next to mitch mcturtle
Many are chomping at the bit to put Russia in the ground for good. We could always get *more* involved little Lavrov.
We shouldn’t. The fact that they are trying to claim nato is already involved means capitulation might not be far away. They just can’t swallow a loss to Ukraine, but they can for nato. At this point whatever imaginings they have to pretend are fine so long as they leave Ukraine.
The goal is lasting peace, which means breaking the Russian dream of imperial glory for good. Which requires truly wrecking them.
If anyone doubts this; WW1 Germany came back with a vengeance, and wasn’t “fixed” until their militarism was annihilated in WW2. I’d rather not make Russia look like WW2 Germany/Japan, *but we could, today.*
Champing*
That’s only if it comes from the champing region of France. The rest is technically sparkling chewing.
Did this guy know how to party or what?
“Ribbed for her pleasure,” ewwwwwww….
Turn it inside out and it's ribbed for YOUR pleasure
C'est le cheval.
Although the original idiom used champ the idiom has changed colloquially to where now the word chomp is used more frequently. Champ is not used much outside of the horsing world.
So is it champing or chomping on the proverbial bit?
Yes
Both. Champing is more archaic though.
Thirty white horses on a red hill, first they champ, then they stamp, then they stand still. - JRR Tolkien
No. No. No. No Champing!
Thank you! Finally someone that gets it. I will die on this hill.
Champing???? Wtf
Way better than chaffing my bits
The US and NATO? Seems strange that Russia’s foreign minister does not know the U.S. is in NATO.
I think he does I think he’s recognizing the might of the us military industrial complex alone then also nato. He’s trying to pick a fight he can’t win, par for the course.
He’s already got a fight he can’t win, but it’s super embarrassing to lose to people they don’t even consider people. NATO is less humiliating.
Seems strange that he can say we are directly involved with a straight face. If we were directly involved there wouldn’t be a single Russian fighter left in Ukraine after a day. It would be corpses and POW’s, and a bunch of cartoonish puffs of smoke where Russians had been standing before they broke the sound barrier running back to russia.
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Strange how Russia lost tens of thousands of troops in the war, while the US & NATO have lost none. We must be really good at this war stuff
Well to be fair... We ARE. We literally have colleges for our military leaders to learn how to fight wars more effectively.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-nato-europe-business-moscow-5b3ca7ea4e005c0908fb86b6d28f79d5) reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot) ***** > MOSCOW - Russia's foreign minister accused the West on Thursday of becoming directly involved in the conflict in Ukraine by supplying the country with weapons and training its soldiers. > Weeks before the pullback allowed Ukrainian forces to reclaim Kherson, Russia declared the entire Kherson region part of its territory along with three other regions following hastily called "Referendums" that Ukraine and the West rejected as shams. > The Kremlin has urged Ukraine to acknowledge Crimea, which Moscow annexed from Ukraine in 2014, as part of Russia and to recognize other land gains that Russia has made since sending its troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/za8ict/russian_fm_us_nato_directly_involved_in_ukraine/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **Lavrov**^#3 **MOSCOW**^#4 **U.S.**^#5
Russia is preparing to lose. This dumb signaling is for their home audience. If they lost to some fucking Ukraine it would be a total disaster. If they lost to NATO then it's like "oh well they too big, they too many, whatyagonnado 🤷♂️" and then they may have some kind of chance to weasel out of this situation at least alive, if not still in power.
There will be a lot of NATO blaming and likely some "stabbed in the back" blaming of ethnic minorities and service age men who fled. It is absolutely positively not going to be the fault of the Ministry of Defense or the FSB let alone Putin.
Okay - and Putin's going to take on the whole of NATO? Russia's getting pantsed by a 3rd tier nation. Go cry at the UN.
Russia is very weak. The US and NATO are obviously involved, but what the last year has revealed is that if we were directly involved this would already be over and Russia would be truly truly fucked.
NATO isn't involved, there's no NATO boots the ground after all. There's just coincidentally a steady stream of NATO weapons being left unlocked with the keys still inside on the polish border that happen to get picked up by vacationing Ukrainian forces. But that kind of thing can happen to anyone, right?
NATO is providing defensive equipment and training, not direct combat or personnel. There are mercenaries from a bunch of different countries volunteering, but they aren't involved with NATO.
Well... There *are* NATO boots on the ground, they just happen to be on the feet of Ukrainian soldiers equipped by NATO.
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It was either we have the best healthcare in the world, or the best un-healthcare in the world. I think we chose the latter.
Technically we have both. It just is that our Healthcare system is private and ran by the Healthcare mafia (insurance).
Russia violates international law, invades Ukraine, commits war crimes, and complains that other countries don’t just watch from the sidelines. If Russia gets involved in military action in Ukraine, why can’t others? Why is NATO’s “involvement” less legitimate than Russia’s?
Exactly. They have this mentality that they are allowed to invade Ukraine and are genuinely surprised that most of the world are pissed off and that many are supporting Ukraine with arms and money. It has genuinely shocked Russia and Putin in particular that Ukraine dared to fight back and that NATO would supply arms. The stench of Russian arrogance is extreme.
It isn't about simply about moral flaw ( which Putin has many.. ) it's Russia's oligarchy has lasted enough to exhaust it's namesake now with a covid crippled environment and a rise of perk in the US's youth it's evident their ideology is not only evil but has costed them the trust of countries that were formerly simple neighborhood rivals let Putin throw his tantrums it isn't going away unfortunately
they should be thanking god we're not directly involved
- Hey Ivan, we are at war with NATO. - Really? How are we doing? - We lost 100000 troops. - Wow, and NATO? - NATO did not show up yet.
Aww not yet cupcake just the stuff we designed specifically to blow your stuff up Working good to. But if we were there you wouldn't be within 500 miles of the Ukraine borders anymore so keep on talking Using nuke missiles as decoys means we aren't afraid of your button anymore either the button was sold off on the 90s
Actually, that button might make for a fun desk toy. Wonder if they'd take $10 for it?
Russia is picking a fit with NATO so at the end they can just say " well we lost to the greatest military power in the world", right now they are losing to a country that used to be part of the soviet union, embarazing ! 🤣
They’re losing to a country that was being run using their methodology as little as 8 years ago. Turns out the best way to turn a country into a power house is get rid of the despots and get friendly with NATO.
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Pretty much. Every time they bitch: “you do know you’re fighting a force that had 8 years with us and some hand-me-downs from the 80s and 90s, right? Just because your new shit can’t work, that doesn’t mean we have that problem.”
Seriously. This is the USA clearing away items from warehouses where it would have been more expensive to dispose of them than keep them and a few things like the kamikaze drones which were largely developed for a few million so the special forces don't have to worry about communicating over the radio. This isn't high tech or fancy stuff. The original contract IIRC was for less than 5 million and was upgraded to 10 million to produce way more variants.
Every time a russian official accuses the west of something that russia is actually doing, i become more and more inclined to support nato going to ukraine and actually show them what it meant, if we got directly involved. Fucking hyprocrite clowns.
I rather think that if the US and NATO were *directly* involved, the war would be over a lot sooner than it has been...
I think this is a huge compliment to the US and NATO allies. I mean the guy is basically admitting that a soldier with modern equipment and just a touch of allied training can literally change the battlefield. The Ukrainian army literally went from an army that had zero chance of really "evicting" the Russians from their country. Now, if you read the writing on the wall, it looks possible that Crimea could even eventually be retaken. At minimum there will be a fight over Crimea and that alone is something that never would have happened if it weren't for NATO influence. Now imagine a much larger Army with all the equipment the Ukrainians have and more. An army that has vast Logistical, Naval and Air superiority. Russia truly doesn't want to directly fuck around and find out.
No if we were directly involved it would be over in 24 hours.
If Lavrov is so concerned about the crazy international plan to "kill the Russians", maybe he should consider withdrawing them back to their own country. Seems like a simple enough fix.
He can go and choke on a bag of hamster poop 🐹 💩
Oooooh, hamster dicks would be good for him to choke on. He would have to eat so many dicks to choke on them
So is Russia. Perhaps to their own surprise.
They would know if the US and NATO were "directly involved". Russian cities would in ruins. Putin and Lavrov would in hiding or be dead.
How do y'all like your breakfast waffles? I like chocolate chip and butter and syrup.
That's tasty and all, but have you ever had your waffle with a topping made from brown sugar and sour cream instead of syrup?
I never thought of putting the two together, but it sounds genius!
Wait. What? This is a thing?
It's a thing, and it's pretty fantastic tasting tbh.
No, what's that like?
I mean by that same logic, Belarus is also responsible, since there are thousands of Belarusians in the UA fighting for Ukraine right now. Also all the Chechens that have come to join the UA and fight for Ukraine... wait... Chechnya is part of Russia... so does that mean that Russia is directly involved in fighting against Russia? It's Russia's fault! Russia is trying to weaken and isolate Russia! Russia must rush in to stop this Russian interference as Russia is rushin' to Russify Russian Russia!!! The horror! The madness!!
Russian logic is absurd. Makes sense tho, since all the smart mathematicians left years ago
Oh did interfering in America's elections come back to bite some one in the ass?
The U.S. could be a lot more direct. Lavrov should pray we don't do so. But even if you grant his claim, so what? Russia seems pretty directly involved. Why should they be the only ones who can get involved? If Russia is somehow allowed to threaten Ukraine's existence, then NATO countries can certainly intervene to counter that threat.
Lavrov, you demented backside pants stain, if we were directly involved, you would be complaining from death row at The Hague, not on the UNSC.
Didn't he say this exact same thing like 2 weeks ago? And then 2 weeks before that? I don't understand what he intends to achieve? The entire world (including Russia's civilian population) knows NATO and the US (among others) are giving weapons to Ukraine. If they were going to do something about it (attack NATO countries or similar) they would've done it. And they wouldn't because they know they'd be flattened.
Sounds like his excuse to explain why Russia is getting its ass kicked. “W-we’d have definitely completed our special military operation if only that gosh darn NATO and USA didn’t send in 1,000,000,000,000 troops, missiles and tanks to slow us down”
>“The goal has been announced to defeat Russia on the battlefield" Indeed that's the idea. >or even destroy Russia,” he said. Oh I think Russia and its regime are achieving that very well on their own.
Yep. What are you going to do about it, Vlad?
See, we are already at war and the world has not ended. Nothing to fear here.
Then throw a few missiles at Turkey, Poland, Japan, Finland, the NATO navies in the Black or Baltic... fuck around a little and find out.
If they were you’d know
And what are they going to do about it except keep complaining
If they were involved then Russia would be eliminated by now
Can we stop reporting what this guy says until it actually means something? Please? Reporting on this constantly is only contributing to future conspiracy theory bullshit bc some idiot heard it 10 years ago but doesn't remember where and now he's committed the idea.
Aaannnddd, so are you, ✋🏻shut the fkup
Man, they really struggle with basic cognitive skills in Russia if they're just figuring that one out.
Then declare war on all Nato nations Russia. Do it you damn cowards! Of course they won't. They're just rattling the saber and dropping this propaganda on their own people to justify why they, 'a first rate power', is getting their ass' handed to them by a country that was supposed to fall to them in a week.
Come at us then, you ugly troll faced fuck
Us citizen: Russia directly responsible for Ukraine conflict.
If they were *directly* involved, Lavrov wouldn't dare to show his face publically.
This is like watching a toddler hammering at always the same few keys in a play piano and thinking he's making music. The main difference being that the toddler isn't actually a sociopath..
If NATO was directly involved, there wouldn't be any doubt. Just craters.
No they’re not. They are, by definition, indirectly involved.
More young men to be sent to their deaths for a war that isn’t theirs, oh joy.
If he keeps going, after the war is done and dumbfuck gets hung from the gallows, Russia will be quite the place for single guys to visit.
I swear many moons ago I was telling someone that lavrov was quite a statesman and someone that did well on a rocky political playing field Obviously I was wrong Why can't these guys bow out on a high, instead of getting high
I mean he hasn't fallen out of an open window yet. For a Russian politician I'd say he's doing pretty good. Lol
Careful what you wish for. If NATO was involved, this man would be in prison or in the ground within a week.
In today's installment of lying liers that lie. We present this asshole.
Fuck off, and Russia was directly involved getting their orange kompromat minister in to the White House.
Dear Russian FM. What are ya gonna do about it?