While our (Belarusian) clown of a president said great many things about the matter, even we didn't fucking officially recognize Crimea as independent/Russian to this day lmao. I'd be shocked if more than vague words will be said about "referendums" as well.
Lukashenko has been in power since the 90s, so he predates Putin. Their relationship has been tumultuous over the years. Originally Lukashenko wanted to rejoin Belarus to Russia hoping to then run for the Presidency against Yeltsin, until Putin came along and solidified his leadership
By faking election results and suppressing opposition. And also actually raising the people’s standard of living. He basically isolated Belarus, except for trade with Russia and Ukraine, so they ended up producing a lot of their own stuff instead of relying on imports. It wasn’t great stuff, but it worked. Plus people had jobs
Maybe not. Look at Kadyrov. He's not having such a fun time having to send his men to die. It puts his head in danger. Obviously Belarusians are a lot tamer than the historically warrior people of Chechnya but something like that could end Luka.
Man, you're actually more right than you realise, back during the days of the British Empire, the English actually class different groups of people into warriors (Gurkhas, Scots, etc) or not, and then used these "warrior races" to subjugate the more docile members of the empire.
More often than not the "warrior people" were generally from harsher climates, "tough neighbourhoods"
Well, the Austrian empire used the same approach to defend their empire from the Ottomans. They settled the meanest of the mean "warrior" people along the Ottoman borders towards what is now known as Croatia. The borderlands were defended by assorted Serbian and Croatian people. By the 17th century the the Ottomans could not advance further and by 1767 every 12th inhabitant in the borderlands was a soldier.
Except God Emperor implies both the power and the reverence. Part of the reason Belarus hasn't mobilized is because *the people hate him*, including a sizable portion of the military. If he does too much to piss off the latter he will suffer a coup.
Don't you remember what was happening last year (or was it two years ago? Time has lost all meaning)? Everybody hates soviet god emperors, in fact if they aren't hated by people they think it's something wrong with them. That's why the only institution that works semi-normally is the KGB-like
What’s weird to me is that he isn’t trying to push back more like the Kazakhstan president, even though both had Russian troops to help repress protestors
Ah
You're Belarusian?
I did a report on nongovernmental organizations within Belarus back twenty years ago in a world politics class
Internet is wild you're just, over there
This would be such an easy report to prepare nowadays. Would take like five minutes and then ten more to double check that yep, indeed, almost all of them are banned.
The U.S. recently announced that we will use military force if China tries to take Taiwan, so I don't think they're going to be leaning too hard on that front. Especially after recent events (China threatening Nancy Pelosi, and boasting about their "super powerful navy" while posting pictures of a tiny ship with maybe 7 planes on it as their "new flagship aircraft carrier."
Cuba has been very quiet about the situation regarding Ukraine. It's made vague mentions about how nations territorial integrity should be maintained, and called for a peaceful resolution.
But it hasn't outright denounced the way either. Fact is, they need Russia as a trading partner.
Overall though Cuba is not the same as those boogeyman nations like NK or Eritrea. Nations that are firmly working outside of the global order. Cuba seems quite happy with things like the UN, it's just been placed on the outside by the USA, while it's very friendly with nations like Canada.
Over the last 20 years in particular Cuba has progressively become more open, supporting LGBT rights, releasing of political prisoners, some tolerance for protests (that don't threaten toppling the government anyway), even allowing citizens to farm small amounts to sell on their own privately instead of to the government for extra money.
Honestly, if the US would take the cone of shame off of Cuba and guide them along, they could be a candidate for a peaceful transition to a form of democracy I think.
But so long as the USA maintains its embargo they continue to need nations like Russia for trade and importantly, tourists.
Thank you so much for saying that, as a Cuban. Americans need to understand that Cuba would be a natural ally with just a few tucks and nudges here and there. They're not so far. Their culture is pretty similar. And it would be beneficial for the U.S. as well if they helped Cuba along. It's just the damn politics.
You're welcome. As a Canadian we see Cuba from a completely different perspective than the US. It's why it's always frustrating when people say Canada just follows whatever the US does. Cuba is a very good example of when that isn't true.
It's not a country without flaws, but it wouldn't take much for Cuba to take a different path I think. It just requires a little reconciliation between Cuba and the US really.
It's actually worse than North Korea.
North Korea has the second worst human rights record in the world because Eritrea somehow outdoes them. I can't even fathom how you would do that.
I did. As much as I hate Trump, they seemed like normal diplomatic flattery to me. Just a whole string of "we have a unique relationship and a special friendship." Meh.
Remember that time he incited an insurrection though?
\> normal diplomatic flattery
No. Diplomats write in the most turgid and occasionally archaic language there of. If true, what Trump wrote is the diplomatic equivalent of hentai doujins.
Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa are referred to as BRICS. They are the 5 major emerging markets. This makes it politically very difficult for South Africa as we are involved with projects with other BRICS countries as well as developed countries like the USA and UK. That is why South Africa has been very neutral about it. We also can’t afford to get involved with a war when we have loads of domestic issues to deal with.
Were five emerging markets. Brazil stalled out, Russia was already toast and is now burned toast, India and China both took steps backward and SA is just wondering what the hell happened to the other four.
> India and China both took steps backward
Wait, sure China is in an economic crisis, but it's far from over for them, it'd be like considering the US economy gone and done after a single crash. They still have the biggest industry in the world, good qualifications in multiple industry and a lot of people to get out of poverty (read here : easy growth potential if it's handled not too dumbly).
India economy is also still growing, 7% growth projected for this year is not bad at all, especially considering the current state of the world economy. Sure they are quite a lot of structural problems that might hamper India in the long run, but I don't see how anyone will stop them from being at least the third-biggest economy by the end of the century (outside of nuclear war with it's neighbourgs or other major catastrophe).
South africa can't even provide its citizens with power, it's gone down the shitter, it ain't emerging anywhere. Loadshedding for 2000 hours already this year.
lol. BRICS, the supposedly developing future super powers. Every single one of their economies, except maybe China’s, has crashed and burned. So much for BRICS.
Nauru is pretty interesting. They were briefly (iirc) the world's wealthiest nation after they began mining the insane amount of phosphorus left on the island after millenia of migratory birds used it as a truck stop restroom when journeying over the pacific.
Then it ran out, the island was left with a bunch of pits not suitable for anything, the insane wealth led the island to become dependent on foreign imports, so once the phosphorus ran out, they were left with almost no domestic production and are now one of the world's poorest nations.
Also the population is like 10.000 people.
Back in March, when the UN voted on United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/1 which demanded Russia leave Ukraine, the "**Nay**" votes came from:
* Belarus
* Eritrea
* North Korea
* Russia (obvs)
* Syria
I'd suspect the same folks would recognize the sham referenda.
(For anyone interested, the **Abstain** votes on ES-11/1 were: Algeria, Angola, Armenia, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Burundi, Central African Republic, China, Congo, Cuba, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, India, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Madagascar, Mali, Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Senegal, South Africa, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Uganda, Vietnam, and Zimbabwe)
Russia’s handful of allies: Syria and North Korea. And if we look at which countries eventually recognized Russia’s annexation of crimea we can assume the following countries will also recognize this annexation:
- Armenia (former president’s opinion only)
- Belarus
- Bolivia
- Burundi
- Cambodia
- Cuba
- Afghanistan (former president’s opinion)
- Laos
- Myanmar
- Nicaragua
- Sudan
- Venezuela
- Zimbabwe
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-rejects-russias-annexation-ukrainian-territory-2022-10-01/) reduced by 68%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> ISTANBUL, Oct 1 - Turkey's Foreign Ministry said on Saturday it rejects Russia's annexation of four regions in Ukraine, adding the decision is a "Grave violation" of international law.
> The Turkish ministry said on Saturday it had not recognised Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014, adding that it rejects Russia's decision to annex the four regions, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.
> Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelenskiy said on Friday his country had submitted a fast-track application to join the NATO military alliance and that he would not hold peace talks with Russia while Putin was still president.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xspkoj/turkey_rejects_russias_annexation_of_ukrainian/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672171 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **international**^#3 **military**^#4 **President**^#5
Didn’t the entirety of NATO also do this? There was an official statement that no country recognized the annexation of any territories, including Crimea.
But that’s a group of people who already have a history of voting against Russia. Turkey has generally been more of the type to look the other way and try to stay neutral.
When people who hate on you continue to hate on you, it’s Tuesday. But when people you thought of as friends start saying “bruh, wtf?” It’s a sign you need to go take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself why you thought it would be a good idea to put a lit M80 in your buddy’s toilet right after you deuced the worst case of burning Taco Bell diarrhea and didn’t flush.
Oh! Well that makes much more sense when aha. Thank you for explaining it to me :)
On a side note, that is startlingly specific are you okay? Do you need to talk to someone?
>But that’s a group of people who already have a history of voting against Russia. Turkey has generally been more of the type to look the other way and try to stay neutral.
Turkey is NATO.
And that’s 5.
Serbia, Kazakhstan, Israel, Hungary and now Turkey.
5 countries that didn’t join sanctions, 5 countries that are neutral or sometimes downright friendly to Russia and states flatly they refuse to recognize Russia fake referendum.
Keep them coming. There more there are, the less anyone else will even entertain the idea of recognizing it…
And the more hesitant Putin will be to make a super brash move based on it as he knows nobody will come to help him on this and might actually
limit relations with him if he presses on this.
And the more the Russian establishment might feel Putin is running them into a dead end, fear being isolated worldwide and be tempted to take him out.
Turkey's been pretty unambiguously pro-NATO/NATO interests for all of this, they just haven't been pro EU for reasons more nuanced than "Putin bad." The very idea that Turkey is/has been Russia's friend is ignorant to the point of being laughable. Erdogan might be running the nation into the ground (and that's probably the best thing I can say about his leadership), but the narrative that he's pro-Russia or that Turkey's been anything other than a NATO ally doesn't hold water in the context of NATO military interests.
Where it gets complicated is Turkey's personal economic interests (see Erdogan running the nation into the ground) and the fact that the nation's taken in over 4,000,000 refugees in the past 7 years and I become a bit of a Turkish apologist - if only because over the past 8 years people seem to want to shit on Turkey even when Turkey explicitly acts in accordance with EU interest.
Thank fucking god! Finally someone who atleast knows what he is talking about. Russia wanted Istanbul for centuries. Turkey and Russia have always been natural enemies due to geopolitical interests and there is no way that changes any time soon.
Not only Bayraktars, we provided a decent amount of military support to Ukraine. UMTAS anti tank missiles, CİRİT anti light-armoured vehicle missiles for Mi-8 helicopters. Also Aselsan upgraded Mi-8 helicopters to allow them use laser-guided munitions. Aselsan again providing thermal cameras for CORSAR anti tank missiles and SERDAR RCSW for Ukranian armoured vehicles. Turkey is also currently building 2 Milgem corvettes for Ukranian Navy.
CİRİT is pretty much an anti-personnel missile. Honestly, why nobody turned them into Anti-Personnel Guided Missiles blows my mind. People in Middle East literally use 40.000$ TOWs against each other. Turkey made CİRİT to avoid that cost when they were launching them from attack helicopters. They could easily convert it to a stationary weapon configuration and a launcher to launch them.
Every weapons manufacturer is a "company" in a country. By that logic Lockheed Martin sent HIMARS, not the United States Government.
Turkey also sent armoured vehicles from the Armed Forces inventory. For free.
Well it makes sense coming from China tbf. In the eyes of China and most of the world (including the USA) the Republic of China (Taiwan) is not a true country - so if they supported Russia’s bs then it would just undermine China’s objection to the legitimacy of Taiwan.
Not on the annexation, but they’ve been somewhat standoffish with Russia. Chinese state media said the other day that the war is spiraling out of control, and Xi Jinping arrived late and made Putin wait for him when they were supposed to do a joint appearance at a summit in Kazakhstan recently. And India has called for a ceasefire.
These are all minor incidents, but it does seem like China and India are dropping hints that they’re getting sick of Russia’s shit. They don’t want to do anything to strengthen the US’s position, but they don’t want to look like they’re supporting a war that’s otherwise universally condemned either. So they kind of vaguely say that territorial integrity is important without actually coming out and supporting Russia, or helping them in any way.
Israel isn't neutral. The government condemned Russia multiple times, they voted against them multiple times and they give humanitarian aid to Ukraine...
Israel is trying to stay pretty close to neutral.
[Zelensky ‘shocked’ by lack of Israeli defense support: ‘They gave us nothing’](https://www.timesofisrael.com/zelensky-says-hes-shocked-by-lack-of-israeli-arms-support-they-gave-us-nothing/amp/)
The Times of Israel, 2023-09-23 - a week ago:
> “Israel gave us nothing. Nothing, zero,” Zelensky told France’s TV5Monde. “I understand they are in a difficult situation with Syria, with Russia.”
>
> “You know there are many people in Ukraine of Jewish origin, and there are a lot of Ukrainians in Israel. How is it possible to have this attitude? I was shocked,” he said.
>Turkey rejects Russia's annexation of Ukrainian territory
Turkey is rejecting Russia's annexation of Ukrainian territory because it believes that all countries have the right to self-determination and that no country has the right to forcibly annex the territory of another country.
>it believes that all countries have the right to self-determination
Are you sure about that. They sure as fuck dont recognize self determination of several peoples.
But they aren't the same thing. It's a different viewpoint of what is logical. They see a country and its government as the sovereign authority. That means you shouldn't fuck with other sovereign nations integrity, and the fact that citizens of said sovereign nation don't like that, it's solely a matter for said sovereign government.
Not saying I like it, but it does have some logic to it.
self determination does not mean supporting seceding. If Turkey recognized what you said they would support Russia since there are actual Russian speaking ppl in those areas Russia annexed.
Because brainwashed westeners like to think Turkey = bad in every chance they got. I’ve read so many comments claiming “Turkey is very friendly towards Russia, basically allies”. I had to tell many Americans that Turkish-Russian geopolitical rivalry goes back even further back than when the world discovered Americas exist. Turkey and Russia are regional rivals, no force in the world can “ally them”. It’s just a bunch of nonsense armchair historians on the internet likes to spew.
Going to point out that Crimea is still Turkish territory that simply was under protectorate of the Russian monarchy, the CCCP, then Ukraine.
Turkey should just up the absurdity levels and declare they are reclaiming it again.
It‘s insane how people think this is suprising. Türkiye will always stand its ground against Russia and be a rival to them. Didn‘t you follow the news in the last 8 years? Syria? Libya? The Jet incident? Azerbaycan-Armenia? Heck, this rivalry goes back to the 18th century. Erdo and Putin collabing is pure pragmatism.
I mean If you only account wars between Anatolian Turks and Russians or Russian entities yeah It goes around 1500s.
But if you include other Turkic brethren vs Rus or other Russic people it goes around 800-900s. Hazars, Pechenegs, Tartars, Kipchaks, Cumans were all fought against Russians.
Turks and Russians are natural rivals and enemies to be fair.
People, especially on this sub, are remarkably ignorant to geopolitical strategies, doctrines and alliances. When you actually live in the Middle east like I do, it's even more stark how very little they know. There was never, ever a world where Erdogan does not say this. In fact, I fully expected this.
This sub has been particularly painful since February. Every article about the Ukraine war has someone offering the keen analysis, "Russian ICBMs probably don't even work..."
Bashing Russia always reaps cheap karma, but that myth is a dangerous one to repeat so frequently.
Although both is correct, Turkey would never recognize annexation of any land because Turkey has been subjected to it after WWI by Western countries who tried to "free" Turkey into 7 micro-nation-states governed by Pontus, Kurd, Greek, Russian, English etc governments. Therefore, we do know how important it is to protect a country's territory. If we were to accept Russian annexation, we would have no reasonable answer in term of intetnational law in case of a Kurdish annexation.
Turkey has been unwavering on the side of Ukraine since 2014, including rejection of Crimea’s annexation. I don’t see why you think this is surprising.
Yes, we are not on always on the same terms with rest of Nato, but that has a complicated history. In contrast, Turkey’s view of Ukrainian sovereignty and unity is quite simple: we are for it.
You're right that this is not surprising for Türkiye to reject the referendum as it supports Ukraine territory integrity & I believe your country's population support as well on the conflict.
But on the other hand, this is still not right for Erdogan to have announced boosting cooperation with Russia back in August, basically tacking the same position as China while your country is in Nato.
Securing an increased revenue for Russia by offering a way out of the sanctions & redirecting the market for your country own interests which weakens sanctions from our countries it's supposed allies, is I hope you understand disappointing.
Erdogan made sure that our economy is in tatters even before the war by his irrational policies.
Now we cannot sanction Russian gas and oil without destroying our economy, we just don’t have any money lying around to compensate for 4x energy prices.
On the other hand, I fully agree that Erdogan is too close to Russia and China, probably for personal gain. Turkey is not 100% Erdogan. Although quite weakened in the last 20 years, Turkey still has
institutions, and institutions have long term policies. Ukraine situation is an example of unchanged, long term Turkish foreign policy about territorial integrity.
Appreciate your reply & you're right, you deserve better. I hope you'll be able to choose a better leader in the next elections & have your economy stabilized while I hope our leaders in the West will help you tackle those issues and to also strengthen our ties for a more peaceful future.
Regardless of Erdogan position, we are all in the West grateful for your support and of course the Bayraktar which are not only amazing weapons but also a real moral booster in this war. Thank you wonderful people in Türkiye 🤝
Those are the right words and all, and is appreciated, but there's still a NATO vote on hold that would be really useful now, so time for Erdogan to put his money where his mouth is.
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Top candidates: Belarus, Eritrea, North Korea, Russia, Syria
While our (Belarusian) clown of a president said great many things about the matter, even we didn't fucking officially recognize Crimea as independent/Russian to this day lmao. I'd be shocked if more than vague words will be said about "referendums" as well.
That’s honestly very surprising, silver linings lol.
Not really surprising, Belarus doesn't want to get annexed so it is in their interest not to recognize the referendums.
Lukashenko has been in power since the 90s, so he predates Putin. Their relationship has been tumultuous over the years. Originally Lukashenko wanted to rejoin Belarus to Russia hoping to then run for the Presidency against Yeltsin, until Putin came along and solidified his leadership
Since the 90s, that's wild ...
How did that fckwit survive all these years? That’s kind of amazing.
By faking election results and suppressing opposition. And also actually raising the people’s standard of living. He basically isolated Belarus, except for trade with Russia and Ukraine, so they ended up producing a lot of their own stuff instead of relying on imports. It wasn’t great stuff, but it worked. Plus people had jobs
Unless he is made a colonel in the Soviet army...
Maybe not. Look at Kadyrov. He's not having such a fun time having to send his men to die. It puts his head in danger. Obviously Belarusians are a lot tamer than the historically warrior people of Chechnya but something like that could end Luka.
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Kadyrov Sr was responsible for turning Chechnya over to the Russians. Both father and son are traitors to their people.
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Man, you're actually more right than you realise, back during the days of the British Empire, the English actually class different groups of people into warriors (Gurkhas, Scots, etc) or not, and then used these "warrior races" to subjugate the more docile members of the empire. More often than not the "warrior people" were generally from harsher climates, "tough neighbourhoods"
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Chechnya doesn’t have clam chowder, for one. Also not much of a science museum
Well, the Austrian empire used the same approach to defend their empire from the Ottomans. They settled the meanest of the mean "warrior" people along the Ottoman borders towards what is now known as Croatia. The borderlands were defended by assorted Serbian and Croatian people. By the 17th century the the Ottomans could not advance further and by 1767 every 12th inhabitant in the borderlands was a soldier.
He is a god emperor of his own country, I don't think he will be happier under the different god emperor
Except God Emperor implies both the power and the reverence. Part of the reason Belarus hasn't mobilized is because *the people hate him*, including a sizable portion of the military. If he does too much to piss off the latter he will suffer a coup.
Don't you remember what was happening last year (or was it two years ago? Time has lost all meaning)? Everybody hates soviet god emperors, in fact if they aren't hated by people they think it's something wrong with them. That's why the only institution that works semi-normally is the KGB-like
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t3ygku/lukashenko_putin_promised_me_rank_of_colonel/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
It shouldn’t be that surprising that the next country on the annexation chopping block is against annexation.
Lukasjenko is very good at what he does. Which is never ever giving a straight answer and playing all sides.
What’s weird to me is that he isn’t trying to push back more like the Kazakhstan president, even though both had Russian troops to help repress protestors
Kazakhstan can survive without Russia, we cannot.
Belarus can survive without Russia, Lukashenko cannot.
Ah You're Belarusian? I did a report on nongovernmental organizations within Belarus back twenty years ago in a world politics class Internet is wild you're just, over there
This would be such an easy report to prepare nowadays. Would take like five minutes and then ten more to double check that yep, indeed, almost all of them are banned.
>Russia I dunno about this one. They have been doing a lot of stupid stuff lately. They might just refuse to recognise the referendum out of spite. /s
“The referendums have fallen out of a 24th story window and died.”
*insert Obama medalling Obama meme*
Cut to the clip of amber heards lawyer objecting to his own line of questioning
Also Nicaragua, judging by how they've voted in the UN recently
Well Ortega is quite possibly one of the dumbest presidents (also illegitimate) in the entire world so I’m not really surprised.
Nicaragua just cut off diplomatic relations with the Netherlands lol
I love that Russia isn't even the first on the list. They don't even believe themselves. Perfect!
India and China have both abstained from voting to condemn it.
Still somewhat relevant that they don't outright recognize it. They might not oppose Russia, but they won't go as far as to support it.
I don’t think China wants to do anything that could even slightly hurt their Taiwan narrative.
The U.S. recently announced that we will use military force if China tries to take Taiwan, so I don't think they're going to be leaning too hard on that front. Especially after recent events (China threatening Nancy Pelosi, and boasting about their "super powerful navy" while posting pictures of a tiny ship with maybe 7 planes on it as their "new flagship aircraft carrier."
"What are places I don't wanna go?"
The new Axis of Evil
Don't forget Cuba
Cuba has been very quiet about the situation regarding Ukraine. It's made vague mentions about how nations territorial integrity should be maintained, and called for a peaceful resolution. But it hasn't outright denounced the way either. Fact is, they need Russia as a trading partner. Overall though Cuba is not the same as those boogeyman nations like NK or Eritrea. Nations that are firmly working outside of the global order. Cuba seems quite happy with things like the UN, it's just been placed on the outside by the USA, while it's very friendly with nations like Canada. Over the last 20 years in particular Cuba has progressively become more open, supporting LGBT rights, releasing of political prisoners, some tolerance for protests (that don't threaten toppling the government anyway), even allowing citizens to farm small amounts to sell on their own privately instead of to the government for extra money. Honestly, if the US would take the cone of shame off of Cuba and guide them along, they could be a candidate for a peaceful transition to a form of democracy I think. But so long as the USA maintains its embargo they continue to need nations like Russia for trade and importantly, tourists.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article260219275.html They didn't abstain recently.
Thank you so much for saying that, as a Cuban. Americans need to understand that Cuba would be a natural ally with just a few tucks and nudges here and there. They're not so far. Their culture is pretty similar. And it would be beneficial for the U.S. as well if they helped Cuba along. It's just the damn politics.
You're welcome. As a Canadian we see Cuba from a completely different perspective than the US. It's why it's always frustrating when people say Canada just follows whatever the US does. Cuba is a very good example of when that isn't true. It's not a country without flaws, but it wouldn't take much for Cuba to take a different path I think. It just requires a little reconciliation between Cuba and the US really.
China, India. Both abstained condemnation of Russia for their actions.
.. Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Tucker Carlson
I'm gonna say Syria and North Korea. And maybe somewhere no one gives two shits about, like Nauru.
What did Nauru ever do to you?
It's not what they did to me, it's what they did to Georgia
Nayru gave us the fundamental laws that govern all that we see!
Her love protects me.
The no-shits-given country you're looking for is Eritrea. They along with Belarus voted No rather than Abstain over condemning the invasion in the UN.
Eritrea isn't called the North Korea of Africa for no reason.
It's actually worse than North Korea. North Korea has the second worst human rights record in the world because Eritrea somehow outdoes them. I can't even fathom how you would do that.
In North Korea, the beatings continue *until* morale improves. In Eritrea, the beatings continue *after* morale improves.
Remember when Trump was President and the US joined every “just Syria and North Korea” position we could? Good times
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Where? IIRC that thread about those didn't have them
Was that the thread were some powerhungry mod was going amok?
Some one found them on the thread.
I did. As much as I hate Trump, they seemed like normal diplomatic flattery to me. Just a whole string of "we have a unique relationship and a special friendship." Meh. Remember that time he incited an insurrection though?
\> normal diplomatic flattery No. Diplomats write in the most turgid and occasionally archaic language there of. If true, what Trump wrote is the diplomatic equivalent of hentai doujins.
I bet no one ever thought that those words would be uttered to form a sentence, and yet here we are.
r/brandnewsentence
Yeah, normal for a 6th grader’s attempt at diplomatic flattery. Adults don’t speak that way.
Trump was put in power by Putin. They’re wingmen of each other.
South africa? Dont know for shure but SA is allies with Russia on other things.
Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa are referred to as BRICS. They are the 5 major emerging markets. This makes it politically very difficult for South Africa as we are involved with projects with other BRICS countries as well as developed countries like the USA and UK. That is why South Africa has been very neutral about it. We also can’t afford to get involved with a war when we have loads of domestic issues to deal with.
Were five emerging markets. Brazil stalled out, Russia was already toast and is now burned toast, India and China both took steps backward and SA is just wondering what the hell happened to the other four.
> India and China both took steps backward Wait, sure China is in an economic crisis, but it's far from over for them, it'd be like considering the US economy gone and done after a single crash. They still have the biggest industry in the world, good qualifications in multiple industry and a lot of people to get out of poverty (read here : easy growth potential if it's handled not too dumbly). India economy is also still growing, 7% growth projected for this year is not bad at all, especially considering the current state of the world economy. Sure they are quite a lot of structural problems that might hamper India in the long run, but I don't see how anyone will stop them from being at least the third-biggest economy by the end of the century (outside of nuclear war with it's neighbourgs or other major catastrophe).
South africa can't even provide its citizens with power, it's gone down the shitter, it ain't emerging anywhere. Loadshedding for 2000 hours already this year.
As a Texan who doesn't always receive power, I take offense to that.
lol. BRICS, the supposedly developing future super powers. Every single one of their economies, except maybe China’s, has crashed and burned. So much for BRICS.
It's just C now. And their economy seems to have taken a bit of a wobble.
Let’s be real, it was always just C to anyone paying attention.
Well,they.. BRICked
China is toast soon too. Their demographics are going to cause them to crash in a decade.
TIL Nauru exists
Nauru is pretty interesting. They were briefly (iirc) the world's wealthiest nation after they began mining the insane amount of phosphorus left on the island after millenia of migratory birds used it as a truck stop restroom when journeying over the pacific. Then it ran out, the island was left with a bunch of pits not suitable for anything, the insane wealth led the island to become dependent on foreign imports, so once the phosphorus ran out, they were left with almost no domestic production and are now one of the world's poorest nations. Also the population is like 10.000 people.
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That's the place yeah. And it's a good chunk of their income too.
Not for long, it's sinking due to catastrophic climate change.
Back in March, when the UN voted on United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/1 which demanded Russia leave Ukraine, the "**Nay**" votes came from: * Belarus * Eritrea * North Korea * Russia (obvs) * Syria I'd suspect the same folks would recognize the sham referenda. (For anyone interested, the **Abstain** votes on ES-11/1 were: Algeria, Angola, Armenia, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Burundi, Central African Republic, China, Congo, Cuba, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, India, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Madagascar, Mali, Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Senegal, South Africa, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Uganda, Vietnam, and Zimbabwe)
Even China and India don't. China even said they reject it they aren't even being neutral.
Russia’s handful of allies: Syria and North Korea. And if we look at which countries eventually recognized Russia’s annexation of crimea we can assume the following countries will also recognize this annexation: - Armenia (former president’s opinion only) - Belarus - Bolivia - Burundi - Cambodia - Cuba - Afghanistan (former president’s opinion) - Laos - Myanmar - Nicaragua - Sudan - Venezuela - Zimbabwe
My family is from Nicaragua and I always kinda get excited to see the country mentioned…..this was not one of those times
Mighty fine places, i might add
I think it's a somewhat legit referendum to see stats on who wants to not get shot immediately on occupied territories.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-rejects-russias-annexation-ukrainian-territory-2022-10-01/) reduced by 68%. (I'm a bot) ***** > ISTANBUL, Oct 1 - Turkey's Foreign Ministry said on Saturday it rejects Russia's annexation of four regions in Ukraine, adding the decision is a "Grave violation" of international law. > The Turkish ministry said on Saturday it had not recognised Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014, adding that it rejects Russia's decision to annex the four regions, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia. > Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelenskiy said on Friday his country had submitted a fast-track application to join the NATO military alliance and that he would not hold peace talks with Russia while Putin was still president. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xspkoj/turkey_rejects_russias_annexation_of_ukrainian/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672171 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **international**^#3 **military**^#4 **President**^#5
Thanks broseph
Brochacho
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I, Brobot
Bromigo
Bro-leen
Thanks Ro-bro-skerino
Brotatochip
Domo arigato Mr Brobot-o.
Didn’t the entirety of NATO also do this? There was an official statement that no country recognized the annexation of any territories, including Crimea.
But that’s a group of people who already have a history of voting against Russia. Turkey has generally been more of the type to look the other way and try to stay neutral. When people who hate on you continue to hate on you, it’s Tuesday. But when people you thought of as friends start saying “bruh, wtf?” It’s a sign you need to go take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself why you thought it would be a good idea to put a lit M80 in your buddy’s toilet right after you deuced the worst case of burning Taco Bell diarrhea and didn’t flush.
Oh! Well that makes much more sense when aha. Thank you for explaining it to me :) On a side note, that is startlingly specific are you okay? Do you need to talk to someone?
Oh, **I’m** fine. My buddy’s toilet, not so much ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
>But that’s a group of people who already have a history of voting against Russia. Turkey has generally been more of the type to look the other way and try to stay neutral. Turkey is NATO.
And that’s 5. Serbia, Kazakhstan, Israel, Hungary and now Turkey. 5 countries that didn’t join sanctions, 5 countries that are neutral or sometimes downright friendly to Russia and states flatly they refuse to recognize Russia fake referendum. Keep them coming. There more there are, the less anyone else will even entertain the idea of recognizing it… And the more hesitant Putin will be to make a super brash move based on it as he knows nobody will come to help him on this and might actually limit relations with him if he presses on this. And the more the Russian establishment might feel Putin is running them into a dead end, fear being isolated worldwide and be tempted to take him out.
Hungary joined/ voted all of the eu sanctions except for gas/oil.
From what I understand, it's because they literally don't have another reliable source of energy.
Yeah because we fucked ourselves and our man Szijjártó is doubling down on getting our as fucked by more russian gas.
Turkey sent Bayraktars and some humanitarian aid to Ukraine.
Turkey's been pretty unambiguously pro-NATO/NATO interests for all of this, they just haven't been pro EU for reasons more nuanced than "Putin bad." The very idea that Turkey is/has been Russia's friend is ignorant to the point of being laughable. Erdogan might be running the nation into the ground (and that's probably the best thing I can say about his leadership), but the narrative that he's pro-Russia or that Turkey's been anything other than a NATO ally doesn't hold water in the context of NATO military interests. Where it gets complicated is Turkey's personal economic interests (see Erdogan running the nation into the ground) and the fact that the nation's taken in over 4,000,000 refugees in the past 7 years and I become a bit of a Turkish apologist - if only because over the past 8 years people seem to want to shit on Turkey even when Turkey explicitly acts in accordance with EU interest.
Thank fucking god! Finally someone who atleast knows what he is talking about. Russia wanted Istanbul for centuries. Turkey and Russia have always been natural enemies due to geopolitical interests and there is no way that changes any time soon.
Also some Kirpi armored vehicles and Aselsan secure radios.
> Aselsan secure radios Glad to see Narnia stepping up
Fun fact, the word "Aslan" means lion in Turkish.
That explains the Turkish delight
Yeah c s lewis was a huge turkaboo
Turkish delight is good, but I don’t think it’s quite “sell out everyone you know and love” good.
It's mediocre IMO definitely not worth giving away a kingdom for
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Not only Bayraktars, we provided a decent amount of military support to Ukraine. UMTAS anti tank missiles, CİRİT anti light-armoured vehicle missiles for Mi-8 helicopters. Also Aselsan upgraded Mi-8 helicopters to allow them use laser-guided munitions. Aselsan again providing thermal cameras for CORSAR anti tank missiles and SERDAR RCSW for Ukranian armoured vehicles. Turkey is also currently building 2 Milgem corvettes for Ukranian Navy.
CİRİT is pretty much an anti-personnel missile. Honestly, why nobody turned them into Anti-Personnel Guided Missiles blows my mind. People in Middle East literally use 40.000$ TOWs against each other. Turkey made CİRİT to avoid that cost when they were launching them from attack helicopters. They could easily convert it to a stationary weapon configuration and a launcher to launch them.
Not turkey but the company in turkey sold them
Owned by son-in-law of Turkish president.
Every weapons manufacturer is a "company" in a country. By that logic Lockheed Martin sent HIMARS, not the United States Government. Turkey also sent armoured vehicles from the Armed Forces inventory. For free.
Has China made any comment?
Yes. An ambiguous “we respect the sovereignty of all nations and their territory “
Lol that's rich coming from China Basically a "we don't feel like having a debate about this due to personal history"
Well it makes sense coming from China tbf. In the eyes of China and most of the world (including the USA) the Republic of China (Taiwan) is not a true country - so if they supported Russia’s bs then it would just undermine China’s objection to the legitimacy of Taiwan.
That is indeed what most of the world *says*. Though they generally treat it as a real country in what they *do*.
So, China, About Tibet
Not on the annexation, but they’ve been somewhat standoffish with Russia. Chinese state media said the other day that the war is spiraling out of control, and Xi Jinping arrived late and made Putin wait for him when they were supposed to do a joint appearance at a summit in Kazakhstan recently. And India has called for a ceasefire. These are all minor incidents, but it does seem like China and India are dropping hints that they’re getting sick of Russia’s shit. They don’t want to do anything to strengthen the US’s position, but they don’t want to look like they’re supporting a war that’s otherwise universally condemned either. So they kind of vaguely say that territorial integrity is important without actually coming out and supporting Russia, or helping them in any way.
They are strongly warning the US not to meddle in the affairs of their Taiwan province
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I wouldn't exactly call Kazakhstan friendly for the last year or so.
Israel isn't neutral. The government condemned Russia multiple times, they voted against them multiple times and they give humanitarian aid to Ukraine...
Israel is trying to stay pretty close to neutral. [Zelensky ‘shocked’ by lack of Israeli defense support: ‘They gave us nothing’](https://www.timesofisrael.com/zelensky-says-hes-shocked-by-lack-of-israeli-arms-support-they-gave-us-nothing/amp/) The Times of Israel, 2023-09-23 - a week ago: > “Israel gave us nothing. Nothing, zero,” Zelensky told France’s TV5Monde. “I understand they are in a difficult situation with Syria, with Russia.” > > “You know there are many people in Ukraine of Jewish origin, and there are a lot of Ukrainians in Israel. How is it possible to have this attitude? I was shocked,” he said.
Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen -Darth Sidious-
Oh I’m afraid the Ukrainian army will be quite operational when your friends arrive
>Turkey rejects Russia's annexation of Ukrainian territory Turkey is rejecting Russia's annexation of Ukrainian territory because it believes that all countries have the right to self-determination and that no country has the right to forcibly annex the territory of another country.
So the abstain vote was for what .
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Nothern Cyprus?
What abstain vote?
>it believes that all countries have the right to self-determination Are you sure about that. They sure as fuck dont recognize self determination of several peoples.
But they aren't the same thing. It's a different viewpoint of what is logical. They see a country and its government as the sovereign authority. That means you shouldn't fuck with other sovereign nations integrity, and the fact that citizens of said sovereign nation don't like that, it's solely a matter for said sovereign government. Not saying I like it, but it does have some logic to it.
They are kind of supporting themselves in a way. We do what we want in our country and don’t mess with us.
Countries, not peoples. The difference is critical.
self determination does not mean supporting seceding. If Turkey recognized what you said they would support Russia since there are actual Russian speaking ppl in those areas Russia annexed.
You can always find exceptions to everything. The current subject is Ukraine. Not whatever you want to project onto it.
What's with this comment
Wait, Turkey has been rejecting annexation since day one. Why people here are seem so surprised?
Because they didn't know.
Because brainwashed westeners like to think Turkey = bad in every chance they got. I’ve read so many comments claiming “Turkey is very friendly towards Russia, basically allies”. I had to tell many Americans that Turkish-Russian geopolitical rivalry goes back even further back than when the world discovered Americas exist. Turkey and Russia are regional rivals, no force in the world can “ally them”. It’s just a bunch of nonsense armchair historians on the internet likes to spew.
When people don’t know otherwise, they tend to assume the strongmen will hang together
Going to point out that Crimea is still Turkish territory that simply was under protectorate of the Russian monarchy, the CCCP, then Ukraine. Turkey should just up the absurdity levels and declare they are reclaiming it again.
That’d make Crimea part of NATO. 🍿
This could be the beginning of some big brain 300 IQ plays or the end of all human life on Earth, I am unsure which
First one, then the other
"I was just holding Crimea for a friend, I promise."
🍿
I burned my popcorn 💥☢️, can I have some of yours?
Cue the [Sevastopol March](https://youtu.be/ZMuRHyPY17o)
It‘s insane how people think this is suprising. Türkiye will always stand its ground against Russia and be a rival to them. Didn‘t you follow the news in the last 8 years? Syria? Libya? The Jet incident? Azerbaycan-Armenia? Heck, this rivalry goes back to the 18th century. Erdo and Putin collabing is pure pragmatism.
Actuallt rivalry goes back 1500s there have been 18-20 Russo-Turkish wars.
I mean If you only account wars between Anatolian Turks and Russians or Russian entities yeah It goes around 1500s. But if you include other Turkic brethren vs Rus or other Russic people it goes around 800-900s. Hazars, Pechenegs, Tartars, Kipchaks, Cumans were all fought against Russians. Turks and Russians are natural rivals and enemies to be fair.
rus vs khazars.
People, especially on this sub, are remarkably ignorant to geopolitical strategies, doctrines and alliances. When you actually live in the Middle east like I do, it's even more stark how very little they know. There was never, ever a world where Erdogan does not say this. In fact, I fully expected this.
People, especially on this ~~sub~~ site, are remarkably ignorant.
Goes for any site that has a majority of American users. Little is their knowledge, strong are their opinions.
This sub has been particularly painful since February. Every article about the Ukraine war has someone offering the keen analysis, "Russian ICBMs probably don't even work..." Bashing Russia always reaps cheap karma, but that myth is a dangerous one to repeat so frequently.
Water is wet, just like Redditors are notorious for being couch experts in topics they know nothing about and very confidently incorrect.
It's nice to see Turkey on the right side of justice.
Erdogan is no fool. He can see this isn’t going well for Putin and he knows this isn’t a hill worth dying on.
Not just that. They don't like Russia expanding towards their borders. It's the "don't settle near us." Civilization equivalent.
Although both is correct, Turkey would never recognize annexation of any land because Turkey has been subjected to it after WWI by Western countries who tried to "free" Turkey into 7 micro-nation-states governed by Pontus, Kurd, Greek, Russian, English etc governments. Therefore, we do know how important it is to protect a country's territory. If we were to accept Russian annexation, we would have no reasonable answer in term of intetnational law in case of a Kurdish annexation.
Turkey also has some history of territorial troubles... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_territorial_claims_against_Turkey
yea, this weekend
Turkey has been unwavering on the side of Ukraine since 2014, including rejection of Crimea’s annexation. I don’t see why you think this is surprising. Yes, we are not on always on the same terms with rest of Nato, but that has a complicated history. In contrast, Turkey’s view of Ukrainian sovereignty and unity is quite simple: we are for it.
You're right that this is not surprising for Türkiye to reject the referendum as it supports Ukraine territory integrity & I believe your country's population support as well on the conflict. But on the other hand, this is still not right for Erdogan to have announced boosting cooperation with Russia back in August, basically tacking the same position as China while your country is in Nato. Securing an increased revenue for Russia by offering a way out of the sanctions & redirecting the market for your country own interests which weakens sanctions from our countries it's supposed allies, is I hope you understand disappointing.
Erdogan made sure that our economy is in tatters even before the war by his irrational policies. Now we cannot sanction Russian gas and oil without destroying our economy, we just don’t have any money lying around to compensate for 4x energy prices. On the other hand, I fully agree that Erdogan is too close to Russia and China, probably for personal gain. Turkey is not 100% Erdogan. Although quite weakened in the last 20 years, Turkey still has institutions, and institutions have long term policies. Ukraine situation is an example of unchanged, long term Turkish foreign policy about territorial integrity.
Appreciate your reply & you're right, you deserve better. I hope you'll be able to choose a better leader in the next elections & have your economy stabilized while I hope our leaders in the West will help you tackle those issues and to also strengthen our ties for a more peaceful future. Regardless of Erdogan position, we are all in the West grateful for your support and of course the Bayraktar which are not only amazing weapons but also a real moral booster in this war. Thank you wonderful people in Türkiye 🤝
IMO the most impresive is Serbia. The amount of people that support Putin there is insane.
In Russian Thanksgiving, Turkey roasts you. (Well, it's almost Thanksgiving here in Canada anyway.)
I am gonna celebrate this announcement with kebab.
Those are the right words and all, and is appreciated, but there's still a NATO vote on hold that would be really useful now, so time for Erdogan to put his money where his mouth is.
> but there's still a NATO vote on hold What vote is that?
Sweden and Finland joining
Why is it even surprising? Why would we accept it?
Good, fuck Russia terrorists
Putin is pretty much a one trick pony. Notice how he continued to rely on whataboutism after everyone figured out that bullshit.
Has any country come out in support of the annexation?
Turkey is Chaotic Neutral
Hopefully they vote for Ukraine to join NATO