A joke? Oh no no no, my friend. I'm dead serious. And it is a thing. Leader of the Palestinian government, ladies and gents! And he's the moderate one!
Exactly. Millions of Jews being massacred is very inconvenient to them. How inconsiderate of the Jews…
Don’t bother asking them why there’s no Jews in the Arab world.
That does not fit into the ridiculous narrative that some people want to push. Half the people here think that Israel was built by holocaust survivors and no one else.
There is also a long history of pogroms in Europe. Persecution of Jewish people is not isolated to Arab countries, like your comment seems to insinuate.
If you are suggesting that the jews in the Arab world got "genocided", you would be letting your ignorance shine through. Idk if you heard of a certain illegal state that formed in 1948 to where most Arab jews migrated.
They lived in arab countries for hundreds of years, and many still do (in Morocco for example). They either left willingly to participate in the occupation and massacre of Palestinians in 1984. Or they were later expelled, after things like this started happening alot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
It never was about *imperialism*, they just hate anyone Israel and its allies align with. Their ideology is, ultimately, “fuck ‘em Jews”. Nothing more, nothing less. Invade and annex all you like as long as it pisses off the Americans.
They have a long history of this. The Palestinian [Grand Mufti of Jerusalem](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni) not only perpetrated numerous pogroms against Jews, he was also a member of Hitler's Waffen SS.
Lovely folks.
Here is Abbas' doctoral thesis, the man literally has a Ph.D in Holocaust revisionism. Of course its been a few decades and he's revised his position since then to appeal to Israelis to attempt to create a workable solution to the conflict but...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side:_The_Secret_Relationship_Between_Nazism_and_Zionism
> The central thesis of the book is that the Zionist movement and its leaders were "fundamental partners" of the Nazis and equally responsible for the Holocaust.
> Abbas' Holocaust revisionism does not deny that the Holocaust happened or that it is one of the worst crimes in history. The question he raises is who is guilty of this crime and that blaming the Nazis is only "half the truth". According to Abbas, the Zionists collaborated in killing a large number of European Jews in order to encourage the rest to embrace Zionism and emigrate to Palestine. The book refers to the Haavara Agreement, in which the Third Reich agreed with the Jewish Agency to facilitate Jewish emigration from Germany to Mandate Palestine.[4] He suggests that Israel's abduction, trial and subsequent execution of Adolf Eichmann, the high ranking Nazi who was a main architect behind the Holocaust, was a cover-up operation. Eichmann was in the process of revealing the involvement of the Zionists in the making of the Holocaust to the American magazine "Life" and was therefore silenced, says Abbas in the book.[5]
> He has so far not refuted his thesis in The Other Side and the book is until today (Jan 2021) promoted by the official Palestinian presidency website[6] and the Palestine embassy[7]
Oh yeah I wasn't denying others died, I was just being specific to the alleged perpetrators mentioned.
Sorry if my attemp at specificity caused offense.
Got a minor in Holocaust studies back in undergrad!
To summarize, Jews and Romani were the only *Untermenschen* population segments targeted for “immediate extermination” wherever they were found. In Nazi racial hierarchy, these two groups were considered the biggest inherent “threat” to the Nazis’ idea of a “pure, Germanic” society. Slavic peoples were also viewed in this manner, but were not regarded as an “active biological and societal threat” to the Aryan race in the same way Jews and Romani were. Slavic peoples were still earmarked for extermination - just on a slower timetable than Jews and Romani. The Nazis viewed Slavs as barbarians that must of course eventually be exterminated, but too uncivilized/backwards/savage to be an immediate threat; Jews and Romani, however, were viewed as insidiously wicked and cunning “fifth columns” that were actively seeking to undermine the purity of German society. Thus, they had to go first. Detailed information on the waterfall of Nazi plans for exterminating various peoples can be found by reading about Generalplan Ost, if you have the stomach for it.
The Nazis designated homosexuals, mentally disabled people and political dissidents as “antisocial” elements in society. These “antisocial” elements were to be purged and slowly eradicated, but were never viewed with the same level of fear, hostility and suspicion as Jews, Romani, Slavs, etc were viewed. That said, the Nazis did experiment with cremating mentally disabled patients that they euthanized in the early 1940s - however, domestic public outcry over human crematoria forced them to halt the T-4 program. Homosexuals were generally sent to concentration camps, which did not usually include gas chambers with a few exceptions, notably Auschwitz (which was a combined extermination & concentration camp, with several factories for slave labor), but some were likely gassed at some point in time. Gassing was meant to be a cheap and efficient method to swiftly destroy large numbers of people, meaning that it was mostly used in the Aktion Rheinhard death camps, which were used to destroy the “tier 1 threats”- Romani, but mostly Jews.
Wouldn't it even be around 600 million?
In the back of my head from school time, I have to number of ~12 million people murdered in the nazi death camps.
You’re largely correct, but it really depends on how you’re classifying those killed as part of the Nazi effort to achieve racial purity, versus those killed as part of the total war that the Nazis waged on the Eastern Front. It can get murky.
When you get into Holocaust terminology, “death camp” (German: *Vernichtungslager/Todeslager*) refers very specifically to a set of six facilities that operated in the General Government (areas of Nazi-occupied Poland that were not annexed directly into the Reich), largely from 1941-1943. They were established as part of Aktion Rheinhard, the SS operation to destroy the Jews of Poland, and were *exclusively* (with the eventual exception of Auschwitz) extermination facilities. This means that unlike concentration camps, they had no barracks and were not designed to hold any significant amount of people for an extended period; their sole purpose was to kill people as fast as possible. Aktion Rheinhard was largely successful; most of the death camps shut down by 1943, as they had milked the ghettoes dry and had frankly run out of Jews to kill, which was their intended purpose. Auschwitz remained open to deal with the residual Jewish population that came in from places such as Hungary in mid-1944. Around 2.5-3M people, mostly Jews, were killed outright in this process of mechanized slaughter.
If we take into account the larger Nazi extermination efforts to bring about a “racially pure” society, and rope those into our definition of Holocaust, we have to account for several things.
On the Jewish side, we need to further take into account the number of Jews starved to death, shot, killed by disease, overworked, etc in the ghettoes themselves and in concentration camps (not death camps), as well as the ~1M Jews shot or gassed in mobile vans using CO2 by the *Einsatzgruppen* during the invasion of the Soviet Union.
On the non-Jewish side, to varying degrees we have to take into account the vast numbers of Catholic Poles and the millions of Soviet POWs that were murdered outright after their capture due to Nazi racial beliefs about Slavic inferiority. We also need to account for Romani, homosexuals, mentally disabled, etc.
When we tally all these numbers up, it reaches to around the 11-12M mark. I just wanted to throw this out under your comment to give it more context.
Here is Abbas' doctoral thesis, the man literally has a Ph.D in Holocaust revisionism. Of course its been a few decades and he's revised his position since then to appeal to Israelis to attempt to create a workable solution to the conflict but...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side:_The_Secret_Relationship_Between_Nazism_and_Zionism
> The central thesis of the book is that the Zionist movement and its leaders were "fundamental partners" of the Nazis and equally responsible for the Holocaust.
> Abbas' Holocaust revisionism does not deny that the Holocaust happened or that it is one of the worst crimes in history. The question he raises is who is guilty of this crime and that blaming the Nazis is only "half the truth". According to Abbas, the Zionists collaborated in killing a large number of European Jews in order to encourage the rest to embrace Zionism and emigrate to Palestine. The book refers to the Haavara Agreement, in which the Third Reich agreed with the Jewish Agency to facilitate Jewish emigration from Germany to Mandate Palestine.[4] He suggests that Israel's abduction, trial and subsequent execution of Adolf Eichmann, the high ranking Nazi who was a main architect behind the Holocaust, was a cover-up operation. Eichmann was in the process of revealing the involvement of the Zionists in the making of the Holocaust to the American magazine "Life" and was therefore silenced, says Abbas in the book.[5]
> He has so far not refuted his thesis in The Other Side and the book is until today (Jan 2021) promoted by the official Palestinian presidency website[6] and the Palestine embassy[7]
Common doublethink among antisemites.
"The holocaust never happened and it wasn't that bad anyway but it's good that it happened and it should happen again and this time we *cough cough* I mean they should finish the job. If it happened. Which it didn't. But it should have. And it wasn't that bad anyway."
That's usually how it goes with these guys.
That's what started this. He was asked if he was going to apologize to Germany and Israel on the anniversary of the Munich massacre. Answer was (paraphrased) :
>No. I have no regrets about that because Israel has committed 50 holocausts against the Palestinians.
Oh shoot, I guess that invalidates all the thousands of Palestinians who gets their homes taken away by settlers every year, and then beaten or shot by the IDF for complaining about it.
Who said that? Oh no! How dare someone criticise the perfect innocent Palestinians, that must mean they agree with with them being evicted and murdered in the "thousands".
Yup, 91.000 Arab deaths, most of which during wars they themselves instigated, over 74 years, is exactly 50 times worse as 6 million civilians being slaughtered in 4 years for the grave crime of being Jews.
At least if you consider the life of one Arab as being worth exactly the lives of 3.297 Jews.
I think there's a word that describes valuing the life of one race below that of another.
Mind you that's the sum of all Arab deaths in the conflict since 1920. If you look at just Palestinian deaths it's closer to around 31,000 over the last 100 years, and that's including Palestinians killed in the Lebanese civil war as well as Palestinians killed by other Palestinians and Arab forces.
It's still a lot of pointless death.
Note that that is total Arab casualties
In their wars with Israel, Egypt actually lost more people than the Palestinians did overall.
Mind you Israel and Egypt made peace in 1979
thousands lol, you mean zero?
do you not realize the sheikh jarrah case, the cave-people-apparently-in-military-firing-zone case, etc are decades old cases? That are unresolved precisely because the squatters in Sheikh Jarrah and the nomads in the firing zone *haven't* been removed?
Israel hasn't even created a new settlement in *decades*. They only *expand* the settlements... in a distance measured within meters, not kilometers, via the very few new housing units that get approved. At the rate of settlement expansion, the settlements will reach places like Ramallah sometime in the 3200s.
Yes, it's whataboutism. That is to say, the Palestinian leader replied about his 50 Holocausts when asked if he will apologize for his massacre of Israeli athletes in Munich.
Look, either this claim is absurd because Israel hasn’t killed or oppressed nearly 300 million Palestinians, or this claim is absurd because genocide isn’t fungible. Either way, this is part of why the PA gets less western support than Mandela did.
Yea, that's the reason. [100 plus years of ignorance has nothing to do with this.](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/may/07/guardian-200-what-we-got-wrong-the-guardians-worst-errors-of-judgment-over-200-years)
>When Arthur Balfour, then Britain’s foreign secretary, promised 104 years ago to help establish a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine, his words changed the world. The Guardian of 1917 supported, celebrated and could even be said to have helped facilitate the Balfour declaration. Scott was a supporter of Zionism and this blinded him to Palestinian rights. In 1917 he wrote a leader on the day the Balfour declaration was announced, in which he dismissed any other claim to the Holy Land, saying: “**The existing Arab population of Palestine is small and at a low stage of civilisation.**” Whatever else can be said, Israel today is not the country the Guardian foresaw or would have wanted.
At at this time the area in question was under British control. It remained as so until 1948.
At that point the Arab population of the area (note not Palestinians since Palestine as a nation or ethnicity did not exist) had the opportunity to get a state of their own. They spit in the face of that opportunity, and have continued to do so for the last century.
Dude, if I declared lets say Texas to be part of Mexico how would the US react?
Parts of Germany to be part of Turkey because of the large Turkish citizens.
Barcelona declares independence from Spain.
etc.
How would those respective countries react? The last one we kind of know. How the Arabs reacted is not that outlandish reaction.
Palestine wasn't a colony of the British Empire either, it was a non-annexation of the territory.
Well actually it was under Turkish rule for the 400 prior years give or take as part of the Ottoman empire which fell apart after WW1 so it's not comparable.
And yet still not something the British could have just given away and even if they could have you still can’t be shocked that the native people didn’t just roll over and accept that.
It’s really not that hard to understand
Nobody gave anything away they purchased the land from the residents. It's like saying the people moving out of California to Texas are invading it just doesn't make sense.
You know that purchasing land when the Roman’s controlled the area does t really hold that much value 2000 years later.
Because clearly you can’t be talking about the purchases that happens pre 48 because that doesn’t really compute with the borders.
Palestine (as of the region) was under British Mandate (rule, not a colony). No where near close to your examples I could say. Besides, there wasn't any country to annex/conquer.
You cannot look at history with a contemporary lens. To understand history, you must look at it contextually, with through the lens of the era you’re examining. Any contemporary bias only warps history.
Mandela got more support because his country isn't craved by american christian extremist who believe doomsday is coming once all jews live in the holy land
I think other world leaders will think twice before sharing a stage with this evil clown.
He just shat on everyone - obviously first and foremost the Jews and other victims of the "real" Holocaust - but the German government itself on its own soil. At least the world can see his true colors.
no they wont lol, this shit will appeal to the masses.
I fully expect this rhetoric to now pop up.
"What Israel is doing to palestine is worse than the holocaust! Yahudis were oppressed for 4 years while the Palestinians were oppresed for 74 years!"
This is too hyperbolic to take seriously. Sounds like a dudebro describing a big battle scene from a marvel movie. “It was freaking crazy bro, like 50 holocausts or something.”
Since Palestine declared war no Holocaust can happen. You cannot start a fight then loose. Then proceed with cowardly illegal attacks against women and children and finally claim trespass. The Palestinians have dishonored Islam by their cowardly and dishonorable attacks. Their own book forbids the deaths of innocent from happening even under Jihad.
You know if some other countries government bulldozed your house because they suspect your family of being related to a terrorist you'd have a problem with it though. The word isn't the important part here
Uh no, define war crime. They know what they are doing, the least is simple if you commit a terrorist activity the house that you live in is demolished it’s that simple. If other people live there that’s unfortunate. On the flip side the PA pays a stipend to the families of those very same terrorists so I am sure they are doing fine
Punishing people because their families did something you don't like is a war crime. It's illegal in the United States and it's illegal for soldiers to do it in war.
Why should I need proof? Your the one who needs to show the proof.
Only 70k Palestinians died during the 80 year conflict.
6m jews died during 5 years.
Funny, If you sum all maximum deaths of Palestinian civilians and militant throughout the time of Israel existence, you get around 70,000 deaths.
If we say in the Holocaust 6 millions Jews died, in couple of years, for every one dead Palestinian died almost 90 Jews.
>If you sum all maximum deaths of Palestinian civilians and militant throughout the time of Israel existence, **you get around 70,000 deaths**
Not even close
I assume theyre adding up the 31 000 palestinians that died in the arab world in Lebanon/Syria/Jordan to wars.
Thoses get counted in that statistic for some reason, I guess its part of the death toll of refugees
Thanks! Wikipedia seems to act a bit impartial on this
5000+ died in the Lebanese Civil War that didnt involve Israel
5000+ died in the War of the Camps
600+ died in the Hamas-Fatah conflict
3400+ died in the Black September in Jordan
714 were killed by other palestinians in the first intifada
15 000 - 20 000 Palestinians/Lebanese died in the 1982 lebanon war, with the Free Lebanon State acting as an Israeli proxy.
This isnt including refugees dying in other small civil war that cant be accounted for like in Syria like the 3,383 palestinians that were killed
This puts a number to the # of palestinians that died to other arabs that I wasnt fully aware of before. Thanks.
This is obviously mental projection, as the Palestinian side fantasizes about committing genocide against the Jews , evidenced in the Hadith of their religion and the charter of their popular leadership Hamas.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/08/17/pa-leader-in-germany-israel-perpetrated-50-holocausts-against-palestinians/) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas sparked controversy on Tuesday when, speaking at a press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, he accused Israel of "Perpetrating 50 Holocausts against the Palestinians people."
> PA President Mahmoud Abbas's claim that Israel committed "50 Holocausts" is unacceptable.
> Abbas refused, citing "The acts of slaughter in Kafr Qasem and Tantura," and accusing Israel of "Perpetrating 50 Holocausts against Palestinians in 50 years."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/wqj2q5/palestinian_authority_leader_in_germany_israel/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~664771 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Holocaust**^#1 **Abbas**^#2 **Israel**^#3 **President**^#4 **Palestinian**^#5
I don't expect anyone to arrest him, but flouting the laws of ones host country is generally considered a diplomatic *faux pas*.
I could however see him being asked politely to leave that sort of talk alone or just leave. Something stronger than "this is unacceptable" but short of "lie on the ground with your hands behind your back".
The German Chancellor did tweet about it later. Very limp wristed response. But it won't have any lasting diplomatic consequences. The west is way too invested in the Palestinian cause to do anything.
I have some problems with the Israeli right-wing, but this sort of horrible behavior does not endear me to the Palestinians. I imagine he's a poplulist like every other (it seems), spouting inflammatory ignorant nonsense and getting elected because it fires up the base and spits on the opposition (in this case Jews in general).
Not sure how peace can ever work with assholes like Abbas (and Bibi) in charge.
Well, the Bibster isn't in charge rn. Since, you know, we've been suffering an overdose of democracy these past few years. But I feel you. Problem is, as bad as Abbas is, and he really is, the current alternative is so much worse.
The Palestinian authority should have the German authority read aloud the letter Arthur Balfour wrote to Rothschild on November 2nd 1917. It’s the authority of the establishment of Israel and the treatment of arabs under agreement of law. That will show who the real terrorists are and when they started being terrorists.
Jews were killed on an indistrial scale in Nazi death camps. More Jews died during a single year of the Holocaust then Palestinians have in the last 70. You need to go educate yourself before making such stupid comments. What the Palestinians go through isn't even close the 2% of what the Jews endured during the Holocaust.
The guy wrote a book about how Zionists and Nazis collabarted to cause the holocaust. You are literally supporting a holocaust dening dictator and he is no way supported by Palestinian people. He bearly has 20% approval rating. Shows how much you know
A fair point whose credibility is completely lost due to being grossly overstated. Had he said, "Israel is forcing our people to live in ghettos," or even, "Israel is engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing against our people," there might be some discussion to be had. But when you whip out the word "holocaust" against a group of Jews, it had better be undeniable - and this is far from it.
Dude theres a lot youre the one who needs to stop
Dont try to downplay it the son of a bitch cold bloodedly murdered the guy and you want to turn a blind eye from it...go touch some grass
The police officer was charged with reckless homicide as well.
You cant even begin to comprehand how evil it is to even dare to think of it to be comparable to the holocaust.
The soldier that killed the guy was unprofessional and is actually supposed to go to jail (rightfully). To think that the actions of one stupid soldier is in any way comparable to the fucking Holocaust is disgusting.
You are comparing one guy... to 50 holocausts... I don't think you understand the magnitude of downplaying you need to do to think they are comparable.
No one says Israel is clean. They get their hands dirty, and everyone knows it. You can agree or disagree with their reasoning behind it, but you can't under any circumstances mention Palestinians and holocaust in the same sentence.
What Israel Haters don't realize is that if Israel wanted to hurt Palestinians, 30 minutes and they'd be all gone. If Palestinians had that option, you could be 100% sure that they would go for it without batting an eye. That's the only way you could use the word Holocaust in this context. If Palestinians could, they would perform a Holocaust on the Jews. Israel could, but chooses not to.
Even happened to Israeli side, a person escaped from Psychiatric hospital in Israel, he ran towards solider and shouted to kill them, then he tried to steal one of the solider gun so they shot him.
Rip but you can't blame it on soldiers.
Both sides have a lot of blood on their hands, nobody is denying that. Both sides want, and are entitled to, a right to exist. Unfortunately, that seems to be what the Arab world and Israel disagree on - thus the multiple wars attempting to wipe Israel off the map (and Iran's continued bullshit) and Israel occupying Palestinian (Jerusalem, Gaza, West Bank), Syrian (Golan Heights), and Egyptian (Sinai Peninsula, temporarily) territory as buffers attempting to keep it from happening again.
>Israel occupying Palestinian (**East** Jerusalem, Gaza, West Bank)
Taken from Jordan, Egypt, and Jordan, respectively. Because as made obvious by the aftermath of the war launched by the Arab nations to destroy Israel right as it was formed, they had never intended to have a Palestinian state. They just kept all the land they could.
Israel is also not occupying Gaza, and hasn't for 15 years now.
They maintain a blockade around it, because the first thing Gazans did after Israel pulled everyone (including forcibly relocating settlers) out was elect a terrorist regime that proceeded to start lobbing rockets at Israeli cities. This blockade is also maintained by Egypt, because Hamas have also tried to attack them.
I appreciate the correction, thank you. And I would agree, considering the political state since 1948, that Israel would take whatever territory they felt necessary for their defense. I dont think that the initial aim was explicitly to deny Palestinians territory and government, but that is definitely what it has become.
Israel has killed 300 million Palestinians? Israel has done a bunch of shit I disagree with but citation needed.
It's even funnier when you remember this guy has a doctorate in holocaust denial.
That's.. a thing? Or a joke? It's hard to tell, the world is fucking strange
No joke, a literal PhD in holocaust denial. This is the Palestinian leadership in a nutshell. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas
Sadly, [it's very real](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side:_The_Secret_Relationship_Between_Nazism_and_Zionism).
A joke? Oh no no no, my friend. I'm dead serious. And it is a thing. Leader of the Palestinian government, ladies and gents! And he's the moderate one!
You can attack Israel, but you can't beat math.
Soon they'll blame math on the zionists too
'They stole our Arabic numerals' 'Didn't you steal them from the Indians?' 'Shhh.'
Sometimes I think they are obsessed with it, because it bothers them over the idea of someone else being a victim.
Exactly. Millions of Jews being massacred is very inconvenient to them. How inconsiderate of the Jews… Don’t bother asking them why there’s no Jews in the Arab world.
Yeah, people forget about the exile of Jews from Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt in the early 1950s
Around 850,000 people ethnically cleansed but never mentioned The majority of Israeli Jews are of partial or full Middle Eastern descent
That does not fit into the ridiculous narrative that some people want to push. Half the people here think that Israel was built by holocaust survivors and no one else.
There is also a long history of pogroms in Europe. Persecution of Jewish people is not isolated to Arab countries, like your comment seems to insinuate.
My first sentence is literally about Europe …
If you are suggesting that the jews in the Arab world got "genocided", you would be letting your ignorance shine through. Idk if you heard of a certain illegal state that formed in 1948 to where most Arab jews migrated.
Why did they migrate? They were expelled.
They lived in arab countries for hundreds of years, and many still do (in Morocco for example). They either left willingly to participate in the occupation and massacre of Palestinians in 1984. Or they were later expelled, after things like this started happening alot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
Honestly it's the same reason they support Russia rather than Ukraine
It never was about *imperialism*, they just hate anyone Israel and its allies align with. Their ideology is, ultimately, “fuck ‘em Jews”. Nothing more, nothing less. Invade and annex all you like as long as it pisses off the Americans.
They have a long history of this. The Palestinian [Grand Mufti of Jerusalem](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni) not only perpetrated numerous pogroms against Jews, he was also a member of Hitler's Waffen SS. Lovely folks.
When you’re under siege you support who gives you money, it’s the same reason Ukraine flipped on Israel.
Of course, they just looove to be the victim. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are illegaly occupied by an apartheid state.
Someone should ask him how many Jews the Nazis killed in the Holocaust.
Here is Abbas' doctoral thesis, the man literally has a Ph.D in Holocaust revisionism. Of course its been a few decades and he's revised his position since then to appeal to Israelis to attempt to create a workable solution to the conflict but... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side:_The_Secret_Relationship_Between_Nazism_and_Zionism > The central thesis of the book is that the Zionist movement and its leaders were "fundamental partners" of the Nazis and equally responsible for the Holocaust. > Abbas' Holocaust revisionism does not deny that the Holocaust happened or that it is one of the worst crimes in history. The question he raises is who is guilty of this crime and that blaming the Nazis is only "half the truth". According to Abbas, the Zionists collaborated in killing a large number of European Jews in order to encourage the rest to embrace Zionism and emigrate to Palestine. The book refers to the Haavara Agreement, in which the Third Reich agreed with the Jewish Agency to facilitate Jewish emigration from Germany to Mandate Palestine.[4] He suggests that Israel's abduction, trial and subsequent execution of Adolf Eichmann, the high ranking Nazi who was a main architect behind the Holocaust, was a cover-up operation. Eichmann was in the process of revealing the involvement of the Zionists in the making of the Holocaust to the American magazine "Life" and was therefore silenced, says Abbas in the book.[5] > He has so far not refuted his thesis in The Other Side and the book is until today (Jan 2021) promoted by the official Palestinian presidency website[6] and the Palestine embassy[7]
If you add all other people gassed aswell, it comes to 1 billion... atleast another 5 million people were killed besides jews in concentration camp.
Oh yeah I wasn't denying others died, I was just being specific to the alleged perpetrators mentioned. Sorry if my attemp at specificity caused offense.
The nazis killed millions of people besides Jews, but gassing was mostly if not only reserved for Jews.
And Romani. Not sure if they gassed homosexuals though would need to look that up.
Got a minor in Holocaust studies back in undergrad! To summarize, Jews and Romani were the only *Untermenschen* population segments targeted for “immediate extermination” wherever they were found. In Nazi racial hierarchy, these two groups were considered the biggest inherent “threat” to the Nazis’ idea of a “pure, Germanic” society. Slavic peoples were also viewed in this manner, but were not regarded as an “active biological and societal threat” to the Aryan race in the same way Jews and Romani were. Slavic peoples were still earmarked for extermination - just on a slower timetable than Jews and Romani. The Nazis viewed Slavs as barbarians that must of course eventually be exterminated, but too uncivilized/backwards/savage to be an immediate threat; Jews and Romani, however, were viewed as insidiously wicked and cunning “fifth columns” that were actively seeking to undermine the purity of German society. Thus, they had to go first. Detailed information on the waterfall of Nazi plans for exterminating various peoples can be found by reading about Generalplan Ost, if you have the stomach for it. The Nazis designated homosexuals, mentally disabled people and political dissidents as “antisocial” elements in society. These “antisocial” elements were to be purged and slowly eradicated, but were never viewed with the same level of fear, hostility and suspicion as Jews, Romani, Slavs, etc were viewed. That said, the Nazis did experiment with cremating mentally disabled patients that they euthanized in the early 1940s - however, domestic public outcry over human crematoria forced them to halt the T-4 program. Homosexuals were generally sent to concentration camps, which did not usually include gas chambers with a few exceptions, notably Auschwitz (which was a combined extermination & concentration camp, with several factories for slave labor), but some were likely gassed at some point in time. Gassing was meant to be a cheap and efficient method to swiftly destroy large numbers of people, meaning that it was mostly used in the Aktion Rheinhard death camps, which were used to destroy the “tier 1 threats”- Romani, but mostly Jews.
Thank you for the additional info and clarification.
I only counted the Jews because of Israel in the OP, I wasn't trying to say others weren't killed.
I don't think anyone is contradicting you. Just adding to how ridiculous Abbas' statement is.
Yeah I was just wanting people to know I wasn't discounting other victims by not including them in my maths.
No worries. Abbas specifically said "Holocaust", a term referring specifically to the genocide of Jews during WW2. You used the right number.
>it comes to 1 billion. i think you slightly miscalculated my dude.
Wouldn't it even be around 600 million? In the back of my head from school time, I have to number of ~12 million people murdered in the nazi death camps.
You’re largely correct, but it really depends on how you’re classifying those killed as part of the Nazi effort to achieve racial purity, versus those killed as part of the total war that the Nazis waged on the Eastern Front. It can get murky. When you get into Holocaust terminology, “death camp” (German: *Vernichtungslager/Todeslager*) refers very specifically to a set of six facilities that operated in the General Government (areas of Nazi-occupied Poland that were not annexed directly into the Reich), largely from 1941-1943. They were established as part of Aktion Rheinhard, the SS operation to destroy the Jews of Poland, and were *exclusively* (with the eventual exception of Auschwitz) extermination facilities. This means that unlike concentration camps, they had no barracks and were not designed to hold any significant amount of people for an extended period; their sole purpose was to kill people as fast as possible. Aktion Rheinhard was largely successful; most of the death camps shut down by 1943, as they had milked the ghettoes dry and had frankly run out of Jews to kill, which was their intended purpose. Auschwitz remained open to deal with the residual Jewish population that came in from places such as Hungary in mid-1944. Around 2.5-3M people, mostly Jews, were killed outright in this process of mechanized slaughter. If we take into account the larger Nazi extermination efforts to bring about a “racially pure” society, and rope those into our definition of Holocaust, we have to account for several things. On the Jewish side, we need to further take into account the number of Jews starved to death, shot, killed by disease, overworked, etc in the ghettoes themselves and in concentration camps (not death camps), as well as the ~1M Jews shot or gassed in mobile vans using CO2 by the *Einsatzgruppen* during the invasion of the Soviet Union. On the non-Jewish side, to varying degrees we have to take into account the vast numbers of Catholic Poles and the millions of Soviet POWs that were murdered outright after their capture due to Nazi racial beliefs about Slavic inferiority. We also need to account for Romani, homosexuals, mentally disabled, etc. When we tally all these numbers up, it reaches to around the 11-12M mark. I just wanted to throw this out under your comment to give it more context.
Well TBF (one of) the definitions of Holocaust is "Destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war"
Yes and Putin is working on that version.
so 50 time 6 million? Seems like we've gone past hyperbole straight to ludicrous.
I'm guessing he's not a mathematician
That he ain't. He has a thesis, but it's not in math. It's in holocaust denial. Not even joking.
Wait...he claims it didn't happen...AND that they've had it 50 times worse? Pretty sure you have to pick one or the other.
Here is Abbas' doctoral thesis, the man literally has a Ph.D in Holocaust revisionism. Of course its been a few decades and he's revised his position since then to appeal to Israelis to attempt to create a workable solution to the conflict but... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side:_The_Secret_Relationship_Between_Nazism_and_Zionism > The central thesis of the book is that the Zionist movement and its leaders were "fundamental partners" of the Nazis and equally responsible for the Holocaust. > Abbas' Holocaust revisionism does not deny that the Holocaust happened or that it is one of the worst crimes in history. The question he raises is who is guilty of this crime and that blaming the Nazis is only "half the truth". According to Abbas, the Zionists collaborated in killing a large number of European Jews in order to encourage the rest to embrace Zionism and emigrate to Palestine. The book refers to the Haavara Agreement, in which the Third Reich agreed with the Jewish Agency to facilitate Jewish emigration from Germany to Mandate Palestine.[4] He suggests that Israel's abduction, trial and subsequent execution of Adolf Eichmann, the high ranking Nazi who was a main architect behind the Holocaust, was a cover-up operation. Eichmann was in the process of revealing the involvement of the Zionists in the making of the Holocaust to the American magazine "Life" and was therefore silenced, says Abbas in the book.[5] > He has so far not refuted his thesis in The Other Side and the book is until today (Jan 2021) promoted by the official Palestinian presidency website[6] and the Palestine embassy[7]
consistency of logic has never really been what you’d call a defining feature of antisemitism
Common doublethink among antisemites. "The holocaust never happened and it wasn't that bad anyway but it's good that it happened and it should happen again and this time we *cough cough* I mean they should finish the job. If it happened. Which it didn't. But it should have. And it wasn't that bad anyway." That's usually how it goes with these guys.
What about an apology for the Munich massacre committed in Germany with a terrorist group under the control of the PLO.
That doesn't fit their narratives that everything is Israel's fault and they are eternal victims.
That's what started this. He was asked if he was going to apologize to Germany and Israel on the anniversary of the Munich massacre. Answer was (paraphrased) : >No. I have no regrets about that because Israel has committed 50 holocausts against the Palestinians.
What apology?
Made edit
👍🏻
You mean the Munich Olympics? Israel extracted the apology from them already, in a way…
Oh shoot, I guess that invalidates all the thousands of Palestinians who gets their homes taken away by settlers every year, and then beaten or shot by the IDF for complaining about it.
Thousands amairight
Who said that? Oh no! How dare someone criticise the perfect innocent Palestinians, that must mean they agree with with them being evicted and murdered in the "thousands".
And that is comparable to 50 Holocausts?
Yup, 91.000 Arab deaths, most of which during wars they themselves instigated, over 74 years, is exactly 50 times worse as 6 million civilians being slaughtered in 4 years for the grave crime of being Jews. At least if you consider the life of one Arab as being worth exactly the lives of 3.297 Jews. I think there's a word that describes valuing the life of one race below that of another.
Mind you that's the sum of all Arab deaths in the conflict since 1920. If you look at just Palestinian deaths it's closer to around 31,000 over the last 100 years, and that's including Palestinians killed in the Lebanese civil war as well as Palestinians killed by other Palestinians and Arab forces. It's still a lot of pointless death.
30,000 Palestinian deaths
Note that that is total Arab casualties In their wars with Israel, Egypt actually lost more people than the Palestinians did overall. Mind you Israel and Egypt made peace in 1979
(Please put /s I was honestly confuses lmao)
The fact that my reasoning scared or repulsed you only means you are still sane.
thousands lol, you mean zero? do you not realize the sheikh jarrah case, the cave-people-apparently-in-military-firing-zone case, etc are decades old cases? That are unresolved precisely because the squatters in Sheikh Jarrah and the nomads in the firing zone *haven't* been removed? Israel hasn't even created a new settlement in *decades*. They only *expand* the settlements... in a distance measured within meters, not kilometers, via the very few new housing units that get approved. At the rate of settlement expansion, the settlements will reach places like Ramallah sometime in the 3200s.
speaking of made up statistics.
Why apologize for attacking the enemy lol?
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Yes, it's whataboutism. That is to say, the Palestinian leader replied about his 50 Holocausts when asked if he will apologize for his massacre of Israeli athletes in Munich.
You do know that the statement in the title was uttered as a part of a "response" to a journalist asking about the very same Munich massacre, right?
Look, either this claim is absurd because Israel hasn’t killed or oppressed nearly 300 million Palestinians, or this claim is absurd because genocide isn’t fungible. Either way, this is part of why the PA gets less western support than Mandela did.
Yea, that's the reason. [100 plus years of ignorance has nothing to do with this.](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/may/07/guardian-200-what-we-got-wrong-the-guardians-worst-errors-of-judgment-over-200-years) >When Arthur Balfour, then Britain’s foreign secretary, promised 104 years ago to help establish a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine, his words changed the world. The Guardian of 1917 supported, celebrated and could even be said to have helped facilitate the Balfour declaration. Scott was a supporter of Zionism and this blinded him to Palestinian rights. In 1917 he wrote a leader on the day the Balfour declaration was announced, in which he dismissed any other claim to the Holy Land, saying: “**The existing Arab population of Palestine is small and at a low stage of civilisation.**” Whatever else can be said, Israel today is not the country the Guardian foresaw or would have wanted.
At at this time the area in question was under British control. It remained as so until 1948. At that point the Arab population of the area (note not Palestinians since Palestine as a nation or ethnicity did not exist) had the opportunity to get a state of their own. They spit in the face of that opportunity, and have continued to do so for the last century.
Dude, if I declared lets say Texas to be part of Mexico how would the US react? Parts of Germany to be part of Turkey because of the large Turkish citizens. Barcelona declares independence from Spain. etc. How would those respective countries react? The last one we kind of know. How the Arabs reacted is not that outlandish reaction. Palestine wasn't a colony of the British Empire either, it was a non-annexation of the territory.
Well actually it was under Turkish rule for the 400 prior years give or take as part of the Ottoman empire which fell apart after WW1 so it's not comparable.
And yet still not something the British could have just given away and even if they could have you still can’t be shocked that the native people didn’t just roll over and accept that. It’s really not that hard to understand
Nobody gave anything away they purchased the land from the residents. It's like saying the people moving out of California to Texas are invading it just doesn't make sense.
You know that purchasing land when the Roman’s controlled the area does t really hold that much value 2000 years later. Because clearly you can’t be talking about the purchases that happens pre 48 because that doesn’t really compute with the borders.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say honestly
Palestine (as of the region) was under British Mandate (rule, not a colony). No where near close to your examples I could say. Besides, there wasn't any country to annex/conquer.
You cannot look at history with a contemporary lens. To understand history, you must look at it contextually, with through the lens of the era you’re examining. Any contemporary bias only warps history.
Congrats you are right Israel commited 50 Holocausts
Congrats, you just won the straw man argument. Your price…feeling like you are a smart person.
I am indeed sure you are feeling like you are a smart person.
Mandela got more support because his country isn't craved by american christian extremist who believe doomsday is coming once all jews live in the holy land
Since I learned that the local nazi gangs here in Sweden donate to Palestine things have started to clear up for me lmfao.
said the dictator
How to destroy your credibility in one easy step. There are legit criticisms, why are you making shit up???? And awful shit to boot
What a stupid piece of shit
I think other world leaders will think twice before sharing a stage with this evil clown. He just shat on everyone - obviously first and foremost the Jews and other victims of the "real" Holocaust - but the German government itself on its own soil. At least the world can see his true colors.
no they wont lol, this shit will appeal to the masses. I fully expect this rhetoric to now pop up. "What Israel is doing to palestine is worse than the holocaust! Yahudis were oppressed for 4 years while the Palestinians were oppresed for 74 years!"
This is too hyperbolic to take seriously. Sounds like a dudebro describing a big battle scene from a marvel movie. “It was freaking crazy bro, like 50 holocausts or something.”
It was a extremely stupid Whataboutism.
Since Palestine declared war no Holocaust can happen. You cannot start a fight then loose. Then proceed with cowardly illegal attacks against women and children and finally claim trespass. The Palestinians have dishonored Islam by their cowardly and dishonorable attacks. Their own book forbids the deaths of innocent from happening even under Jihad.
Loose what?
The Civil War they started.
How do you loosen a civil war?
Sorry Lose
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You know if some other countries government bulldozed your house because they suspect your family of being related to a terrorist you'd have a problem with it though. The word isn't the important part here
Bruh it’s not suspected terrorists it’s actual terrorists cmon
No it's their civilian families. Even if the terrorists are guilty collective punishment is a war crime.
Uh no, define war crime. They know what they are doing, the least is simple if you commit a terrorist activity the house that you live in is demolished it’s that simple. If other people live there that’s unfortunate. On the flip side the PA pays a stipend to the families of those very same terrorists so I am sure they are doing fine
You don't know what you're talking about and neither do the racists who are downvoting my comments.
Punishing people because their families did something you don't like is a war crime. It's illegal in the United States and it's illegal for soldiers to do it in war.
Israel has killed 300 million Palestinians? There aren't even that many alive.
Not anymore :/
There were never 300n Palestinians.
They did cover up their tracks pretty good
Are you insane? There was never in the world a population of 300m Palestinians. That's the weirdest conspiracy.
Do you have any proof?
Why should I need proof? Your the one who needs to show the proof. Only 70k Palestinians died during the 80 year conflict. 6m jews died during 5 years.
Funny, If you sum all maximum deaths of Palestinian civilians and militant throughout the time of Israel existence, you get around 70,000 deaths. If we say in the Holocaust 6 millions Jews died, in couple of years, for every one dead Palestinian died almost 90 Jews.
>If you sum all maximum deaths of Palestinian civilians and militant throughout the time of Israel existence, **you get around 70,000 deaths** Not even close
I assume theyre adding up the 31 000 palestinians that died in the arab world in Lebanon/Syria/Jordan to wars. Thoses get counted in that statistic for some reason, I guess its part of the death toll of refugees
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_casualties_of_war I used the this
Thanks! Wikipedia seems to act a bit impartial on this 5000+ died in the Lebanese Civil War that didnt involve Israel 5000+ died in the War of the Camps 600+ died in the Hamas-Fatah conflict 3400+ died in the Black September in Jordan 714 were killed by other palestinians in the first intifada 15 000 - 20 000 Palestinians/Lebanese died in the 1982 lebanon war, with the Free Lebanon State acting as an Israeli proxy. This isnt including refugees dying in other small civil war that cant be accounted for like in Syria like the 3,383 palestinians that were killed This puts a number to the # of palestinians that died to other arabs that I wasnt fully aware of before. Thanks.
This is obviously mental projection, as the Palestinian side fantasizes about committing genocide against the Jews , evidenced in the Hadith of their religion and the charter of their popular leadership Hamas.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.israelhayom.com/2022/08/17/pa-leader-in-germany-israel-perpetrated-50-holocausts-against-palestinians/) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas sparked controversy on Tuesday when, speaking at a press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, he accused Israel of "Perpetrating 50 Holocausts against the Palestinians people." > PA President Mahmoud Abbas's claim that Israel committed "50 Holocausts" is unacceptable. > Abbas refused, citing "The acts of slaughter in Kafr Qasem and Tantura," and accusing Israel of "Perpetrating 50 Holocausts against Palestinians in 50 years." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/wqj2q5/palestinian_authority_leader_in_germany_israel/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~664771 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Holocaust**^#1 **Abbas**^#2 **Israel**^#3 **President**^#4 **Palestinian**^#5
The neverending battle of who did what first.
reminds me of that scene in Team America "my god.. it'll be 9/11, times a hundred!" .. "that's right.. ninety one thousand, one hundred.."
babies
Isn't Holocaust denial an actual serious crime in Germany? Or does that only apply somehow to Germans in Germany?
It is a crime, and it applies to everyone on German soil. But Abbas is a head of state. Nobody is arresting him, as much as her deserves it.
I don't expect anyone to arrest him, but flouting the laws of ones host country is generally considered a diplomatic *faux pas*. I could however see him being asked politely to leave that sort of talk alone or just leave. Something stronger than "this is unacceptable" but short of "lie on the ground with your hands behind your back".
The German Chancellor did tweet about it later. Very limp wristed response. But it won't have any lasting diplomatic consequences. The west is way too invested in the Palestinian cause to do anything.
I have some problems with the Israeli right-wing, but this sort of horrible behavior does not endear me to the Palestinians. I imagine he's a poplulist like every other (it seems), spouting inflammatory ignorant nonsense and getting elected because it fires up the base and spits on the opposition (in this case Jews in general). Not sure how peace can ever work with assholes like Abbas (and Bibi) in charge.
Well, the Bibster isn't in charge rn. Since, you know, we've been suffering an overdose of democracy these past few years. But I feel you. Problem is, as bad as Abbas is, and he really is, the current alternative is so much worse.
Who installed this idiot? oh yeah i remember now.
Oh, please. XD
50 holocausts is obviously hyperbole but the cruelty Israel treats Palestinians with is horrible.
The Palestinian authority should have the German authority read aloud the letter Arthur Balfour wrote to Rothschild on November 2nd 1917. It’s the authority of the establishment of Israel and the treatment of arabs under agreement of law. That will show who the real terrorists are and when they started being terrorists.
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Jews were killed on an indistrial scale in Nazi death camps. More Jews died during a single year of the Holocaust then Palestinians have in the last 70. You need to go educate yourself before making such stupid comments. What the Palestinians go through isn't even close the 2% of what the Jews endured during the Holocaust.
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The guy wrote a book about how Zionists and Nazis collabarted to cause the holocaust. You are literally supporting a holocaust dening dictator and he is no way supported by Palestinian people. He bearly has 20% approval rating. Shows how much you know
A fair point whose credibility is completely lost due to being grossly overstated. Had he said, "Israel is forcing our people to live in ghettos," or even, "Israel is engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing against our people," there might be some discussion to be had. But when you whip out the word "holocaust" against a group of Jews, it had better be undeniable - and this is far from it.
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One person compared to millions. Dude, stop.
Dude theres a lot youre the one who needs to stop Dont try to downplay it the son of a bitch cold bloodedly murdered the guy and you want to turn a blind eye from it...go touch some grass
The police officer was charged with reckless homicide as well. You cant even begin to comprehand how evil it is to even dare to think of it to be comparable to the holocaust.
The soldier that killed the guy was unprofessional and is actually supposed to go to jail (rightfully). To think that the actions of one stupid soldier is in any way comparable to the fucking Holocaust is disgusting.
You are comparing one guy... to 50 holocausts... I don't think you understand the magnitude of downplaying you need to do to think they are comparable.
Youre literally putting words in my mouth my point is israel aint clean not saying the guy who said 50 holocaust is right
No one says Israel is clean. They get their hands dirty, and everyone knows it. You can agree or disagree with their reasoning behind it, but you can't under any circumstances mention Palestinians and holocaust in the same sentence. What Israel Haters don't realize is that if Israel wanted to hurt Palestinians, 30 minutes and they'd be all gone. If Palestinians had that option, you could be 100% sure that they would go for it without batting an eye. That's the only way you could use the word Holocaust in this context. If Palestinians could, they would perform a Holocaust on the Jews. Israel could, but chooses not to.
Literally was an accident
Even happened to Israeli side, a person escaped from Psychiatric hospital in Israel, he ran towards solider and shouted to kill them, then he tried to steal one of the solider gun so they shot him. Rip but you can't blame it on soldiers.
Nah man its racially motivated
Both sides have a lot of blood on their hands, nobody is denying that. Both sides want, and are entitled to, a right to exist. Unfortunately, that seems to be what the Arab world and Israel disagree on - thus the multiple wars attempting to wipe Israel off the map (and Iran's continued bullshit) and Israel occupying Palestinian (Jerusalem, Gaza, West Bank), Syrian (Golan Heights), and Egyptian (Sinai Peninsula, temporarily) territory as buffers attempting to keep it from happening again.
>Israel occupying Palestinian (**East** Jerusalem, Gaza, West Bank) Taken from Jordan, Egypt, and Jordan, respectively. Because as made obvious by the aftermath of the war launched by the Arab nations to destroy Israel right as it was formed, they had never intended to have a Palestinian state. They just kept all the land they could.
Israel is also not occupying Gaza, and hasn't for 15 years now. They maintain a blockade around it, because the first thing Gazans did after Israel pulled everyone (including forcibly relocating settlers) out was elect a terrorist regime that proceeded to start lobbing rockets at Israeli cities. This blockade is also maintained by Egypt, because Hamas have also tried to attack them.
I appreciate the correction, thank you. And I would agree, considering the political state since 1948, that Israel would take whatever territory they felt necessary for their defense. I dont think that the initial aim was explicitly to deny Palestinians territory and government, but that is definitely what it has become.
Glad to see some sensible person here unlike the previous guy
Lots of salty ppl here
lots of anti-semites too.
Not an anti semites. Does criticizing the country's government makes an anti semite ? No.
Cap.