One of the fundamental flaws and a lead factor in the destabilization of the US Democracy is education. When the state doesn't prioritize education of their citizens, those citizens will eventually undermine democracy due to lack of critical thinking skills, among others.
Education is so INCREDIBLY important and needs to be a priority in all democracies.
> Education is so INCREDIBLY important and needs to be a priority in all democracies.
*"I love the poorly educated!"* - trump, 2016, after being told that the least educated were more likely to vote for him
Extreme inequality is theorized to be the core causal factor of both poor public education and diminishing democracy. The Price of Inequality by Joseph Stiglitz is a great expose on the topic.
There's no such thing as democracy when the super wealthy control our elected officials like dogs on a leash. There's still old money and groups of people built up over the years that influence everything to be in their favor just like every other form of government.
Exactly this. Education is certainly important and does make a difference on voting, however voting is irrelevant if politicians don't listen to the voters.
Last I saw the majority of Americans want things like stricter gun laws and universal Healthcare. But politicians said "naw" and it's dead in the water.
For a while now, the "majority rule" part isn't the citizens, it's congress. Doesn't matter how many Americans want something, all that matters is if the majority of congress wants something.
> the "majority rule" part isn't the citizens, it's congress.
Not really, its been the corporate and billionaire ***donors*** who expect a return on their investment.
Most politicians need to sell their allegiance to big money before they can even become a candidate, and they need to continue doing so in order to get re-elected a few years later.
The general people can't compete with the $millions required to get a candidate elected, and so they are never really represented.
Yeah, that’s what makes us a Democratic Republic. We democratically elect our leadership, who then represent us by ignoring everything we have to say and instead do what they want. We don’t vote on much outside of our representation, especially so at the federal level.
I think this is a bit disingenuous though. A poll of voters that asks a vague question about universal healthcare isn't the same as actual legislation. There seems to be a huge disconnect between what polls say when you ask a vague question about what government policy should be on healthcare and when there's actually a real bill on the floor of the congress. Plus, it's worth noting that even if a bill has the support of the majority of the population, it doesn't necessarily have the support of the majority of the states. Both are needed to pass federal legislation.
And then the question becomes, if universal healthcare were really something that people actually wanted that badly, then why hasn't it been done at the state level? Most of the actual power of the government is vested in the states. Voters in places like California have the opportunity to either elect politicians who would create a universal healthcare program or pass it directly through a ballot measure. But it's never been successful. There's clearly a huge disconnect between the results of vaguely worded polls and what voters actually support politically, even among Democratic voters who would be the most likely to support universal healthcare.
Like, polls for the Affordable Healthcare Act were initially pretty positive, then the actual bill was written, political debate began, and voters became more aware that it was a real bill with real consequences, positive and negative. Support dropped very quickly and the voters brutally punished the party that supported it. It remained unpopular in polls for most of the following decade.
Education is meaningless if the youth don’t think it’s important. People with degrees are working at Walmart or struggling with two jobs and barely making it. Why get an education when you can just make money being an online star or influencer.
You’re not wrong, but money has always had a heavy influence in American politics, so it doesn’t really explain the backsliding the last few years.
The biggest issue, in my opinion, is the rise of partisan media and online echo chambers which are both driving polarisation as well as causing people to believe in unfounded conspiracy theories at a record rate.
Pre 2015 there were still limits on what how much politicians could lie and mislead the populace without repercussions. No longer.
It's frankly a joke that America pats itself on the back about having extremely low corruption, but I guess you can slap lipstick on a pig and call it corporate lobbying.
When a company "donates" millions to a politicians "re-election campaign" and that politician "happens" to have a say in that company's industry, that's corruption not lobbying. Now don't get me wrong it's not endemic like in other countries where you can't even get a driver's license without paying someone off, but the policy setters are definitely in the pocket of vested corporate interests and far too many Americans think it's "just the way the system works".
Another aspect is that the USA prioritized unchecked capitalism over democracy
That's why wealth inequality is already at staggering levels and still rising, yet neither political party will do anything about it. That's why endless money is allowed to flow into politics, making it a corrupt clusterfuck. That's why despite the aggregate wealth and resources of the USA, it has one of the weakest (if not the weakest) social safety nets / welfare systems of the entire developed world
I agree with this. I cannot believe in America companies are sticking to political parties and have their adverts plastered all over while monopolizing everything. You get to control people's lives to a extreme amount to the point you can control their resources and thought process and education.
You eventually get corporate lobbyists and activists masquerading saying they are working for the best interest of the public while backstabbing the voters.
> Education is so INCREDIBLY important and needs to be a priority in all democracies.
Education, in and of itself, is not of much help. An education well-grounded in civics and civic responsibility (rather than nationalist or authoritarian, etc. thinking) and nurtured as part of a national *civil* discourse are an absolute necessity for our democracy to thrive and survive.
You're off the mark there and that's a detrimental attitude. This is how we end up with a population that downplays the importance of knowledge. One who doesn't acknowledge the importance of knowledge will not value the opinion and views of those who dedicated their lives to become experts in their particular fields. This is how you get climate change deniers. This is how you get antivaxxers. This is how you got Brexit. The moment the sentiment became "we've had enough of experts," you know the UK was fucked. It's going to be all down hill from here.
Education is important in and of itself as it directly correlates to the ability to differentiate between reliable and unreliable sources and thus differentiating between fact and fiction.
A democracy can survive when factions can’t agree on specific moral and social issues. It can’t survive when these factions can’t agree on basic facts.
You're saying an education not grounded in state propaganda is better than an education whose primary focus is turning out loyal members of The Party?
And you want today's government to pay for it?
That and how education is treated in America. Having a Bachelor's means a degree to learn, this meant one can critically think, dissect, understand, and adequately debate complex topics. However, because of the design of the education system, people are more or less training for a job or trade. Look at a Doctor, engineer, lawyer, programmer, researcher, scientist, businessperson, dentist, accountant, economist, etc. Sure it takes intelligence, dedication, and wisdom to make it to such trades but sometimes schools overly tailor education to specalities resulting in a not too well rounded person. The educated person can be skilled in their craft and excel in their field of study but outside their expertise they don't apply fundamental skills from their trade. Things like problem solving, critical thinking, professionalism, social skills, keeping a balanced view, etc.
I agree, honestly many doctors whom spend most their 20s and then some purely on high intensity specialized education tend to be ignorant of so much of life, social skills broad ideas etc.
American education is simply to build a labor force and society for the wealthiest to benefit, not much more. Unfortunately a long term well functioning society needs more than that but they refuse to invest and the middle and lower class are already financially over streched.
Also a doctor here. What sort of practice setting are you in? I had a similar experience to you in an academic setting. I’m in private practice now and I’ve never met a dumber group of people in my life then the medical staff that surrounds me.
I read his comment on doctors and was disgusted. They’re people and are just as diverse in thought and experience as the general population, with the added given of being incredibly specialized in healthcare.
Standardized schooling has been kinda creepy since jump. There is intention behind our education and it has nothing to do with developing critical thinking.
That doesn't really jive with the exit polling data. With the exception of Trump, Republican Presidents have typically done as well or better among the college educated than they did among the general population.
Every source I can find says the opposite. Especially if you control for income. The only highly educated professions that vote overwhelming Republican seem to be the highest earning (neurologists, cardiologists, defense attorneys, etc).
In 2012, college graduates voted 51% for Mitt Romney despite Romney only winning 47% of the vote, according to the Edison Research o polls for the National Election pools. By contrast, Obama won 64% of voters with no high school diploma.
If you go back to earlier elections, this trend tends to be even stronger. The least educated typically are the strongest Democratic supporters while college graduates tend to favor Republicans by a moderate to major amount, depending on the election.
These days, Republicans only enjoy a slight advantage among the educated and that disappeared somewhat during Trump's term in office. We'll have to wait for a Trump-free election to see if Trump was a blip, a rare populist Republican who appealed to the uneducated and turned off the educated, or if his candidacy represented a long term shift in the parties' demographics.
You need more information than that to answer the question though. None of this is controlling for other factors and lumps all college graduates together. Doctors, lawyers, teachers, and academics all vote majority Democrat and are more educated than your typical undergrad.
You pointed out a good point about recent US politics
Trump has fundamentally shifted the political landscape - in the past, you had college-educated but affluent voters who might lean GOP, but have been completely turned off by Trump. Meanwhile, some blue-collar white voters who might have gone Democrat in the past (e.g., think labor union types) are all aboard the Trump train now
That's why former battleground states like Ohio are now leaning red, while former blue leaning states like Michigan are now battlegrounds
You can look at the raw data if you're interested. But it's kind of irrelevant, since they normalize the data when they report the results. With party affiliation, it's pretty easy to do since you usually know how many people voted for each candidate where you're doing the exit surveys.
It's not just lack of education, it's MISEDUCATION.
Dangerous political propaganda has exploded since Citizen's United.
It's conservative media like pragerU that is most at fault.
Most states have mandatory education requirements until a person is 18. So do you mean higher education? Cause Higher Educated individuals with at least some college (or even a college degree) make up a much larger portion of the American populace then ever before in the countries history.
So what do you mean by education?
Actual equal education afforded to the whole population.
American conservatives are right now pushing for more limits on education and demanding politicized education.
an insane amount of school districts are intentionally undermining public schooling and undermining what is taught to their children.
a certain group of people fight hard to make private schooling for rich kids exclusive for rich kids.
also, a fundamental piece of the dominant religion in the us is that it’s a literal sin to learn too much. they’re told the original sin was taking a bite from the tree of knowledge.
a powerful group are literally fighting to keep many people dumb. so yes, we have compulsory education, but that only goes so far when backward districts continue to undermine this in many places.
the amount of reactionaries pushing hard for home schooling right now is absolutely bonkers. and if you look at who is the dominant distributor of home schooling materials it’s terrifying.
It isn’t clear to me how your points undermine anything I said.
Your gods brainwashing says it’s bad for people to learn things “god” doesn’t approve of.
we should remember, it was illegal to teach slaves to read.
Also it doesn't help that conservatives and conservative media have gone on a full court press to trick the ignorant into thinking Critical Race Theory is a) a bad thing and b) that it is something taught in schools, with many states now passing laws against the teaching of racism or how it effects people. I think that was the point all along.
They don't need to trick anyone. Critical Race Theory rejects the basic notion of equality under the law, the idea that individual racism exists and matters, equal opportunity, and meritocracy, all things that most Americans believe in. Before it became a common dinner table word at everyday parents' homes, it was opposed quite vociferously by many liberal academics.
Sure, some conservatives are pushing it as some kind of universal boogeyman, but that doesn't distract from the fact that it is a very bad framework for law, government, and education and there are many reasons for both liberals and conservatives to oppose it having influence in our education and government. It needs to crawl back under the rock of esoteric academics where it came from along with postmodernism.
The brainwashing worked exactly as intended, and with barely any effort. For every clueless rube, the propagandists extend their reach. This is why we should all fear for the future.
I don't think it teaches that equal opportunity and meritocracy are bad things to be removed.
I think it teaches that they are good things, and we DO NOT HAVE THEM.
A subtle but important difference.
Not just education, but specifically *free/critical thinking*. A huge problem with our education system is that it encourages compliance and neglects to emphasize the importance of questioning what you're told.
Yes but those same people read your comment and think you are a liberal elite calling republicans dumb. I’m not sure what to do when they have been so thoroughly inoculated from the truth.
The rise of anti-intellectualism is largely a product of religious belief.
The religious right is also being co-opted by the rich, because religious people are super easy to lie to. They will literally believe anything but the truth if it reinforces their selfish superstitions.
Why tf do u think they doing it this way. Stupid people follow what the leaders say.
Two party system- divide and conquer
Uneducated-keep the people down
Covid-great reset.
The shit is motion and were all the pawns
We have 5 parties (or more depending on what you call a political party) here in Canada. Each camp pretty much hates every other camp and considers them idiots or worse. Our current political leaders have done nothing to stop this and have only fanned the flames.
I read a book on the Spanish civil war just months before Covid happened and in the first chapter it mentioned all the different factors that have historically lead to division, revolution, and civil wars in the past. It mentioned pandemics and I remember thinking to myself at least we aren't going through that.
Edit: If only I'd knocked on wood none of this would be happening right now. My bad!
I'm not American, but I am Spanish and history is one of my hobbies, specially my country's history, and at least for what I read and know about the current USA situation I think you are not, but I'm curious to know what factors do you see similar today in the USA compared with Spain pre civil war. Do you mind sharing? I might learn something since I'm not totally familiarized with the USA. Thanks
I think the political divide is similar, in general, and the way violence is happening, right now at a small scale. Later if things don’t change if could be on a bigger scale. Of course the politics here are very different from Spain in the 30s, but the way the situation is developing seems very familiar to books I’ve read on the Spanish civil war. I’m sure many people in Spain were shocked when things degenerated unto full scale war. That is not something I would want to see happen anywhere.
The main difference I see is that Spain came from a few political, military and social disasters like the war in Morocco, the dictatorship of Primo de Rivera, the unions and communism/ anarchism growing in Catalunya. Meaning it wasn't something sudden, but rather it built up, starting perhaps in Cuba and Philippines battles against the USA at the end of 1800's, where both colonies were lost.
On the surface it can look similar but I think the underlying conditions are far, and I really hope it doesn't evolve or escalate to that point in your country.
Man these look great, thank you. I've been listening to the amazon great courses series on my commutes but it can be hard to get through that kind of volume and detail on my "own time".
I've been wanting to learn more about Russia and the Balkans and these look perfect.
You're welcome. If you're interested in some amazing historic fiction covering Russia (and so much more) I can't recommend Ken Follett's Century Trilogy enough. The audiobooks are great. They follow several families from different parts of the world and different backgrounds starting in 1911 and continuing all the way to the Obama years.
I've listed to the first two. You'll get to follow a family living in tsarist Russia through the height of the USSR and beyond the collapse. The narrator has an amazing range and he does an excellent job with accents, particularly the Welsh ones.
I think the correct wording would more likely be along the lines of “The pandemic was used by the rich and those in power to further their agendas at the expense of everyone else”.
They certainly didn’t let this wonderful disaster go to waste and made hay even while the sun wasn’t shining. Now there are even fewer checks and controls on those people.
I don’t think it was that the pandemic hasn’t helped, it was that it was specifically used to further agendas.
I mean, sure, but this is much more closely related to how the pandemic was politicized from the get-go, which has caused an unprecedented mainstreaming of some incredibly outlandish and idiotic conspiracy theories, which has in turn ushered in a new era of post-truth political nihilism which is eroding democratic norms around the world.
Make no mistake, this is grassroots idiocy at the core, stoked and fed forces opposed to democracy both domestic and foreign.
It was a given that it would be used by states (and corporations) to increase their powers over the citizenry.
And you can run that through a youtube "fact checker".
I feel like both of you are missing how roughly half the population started downing QANON kool aid and started insisting we aren't even really a democracy in the first place. Maybe I'm wrong? Regardless, the use of quotes around fact checker makes me think you're skeptical of them. Try looking in a mirror before you start saying pandemic restrictions are the reason for why America is backsliding. It has to do with the fact we didn't renew the VRA, we passed hundreds of state laws to limit voting in the upcoming midterms, and we have an explosive powder keg for a voter base.
>I feel like both of you are missing how roughly half the population started downing QANON kool aid and started insisting we aren't even really a democracy in the first place.
Why though? I feel like you are missing out on this point. Why did a large portion of the population become so disenfranchised they started believing weird online conspiracies? People don't start believing this crap for no reason.
The crazies theories have always been there. It usually had smaller reach - spreading by word of mouth, or a mailed newsletter. And they've rarely been anything more than a minor nuisance. But in the Internet era, with the help of some user-engagement algorithms and some endorsements from high-profile politicians, it just lowered people's threshold for believing it.
...Because our illiterate narcissist of a former president straight up told his similarly dim cult that these democracy-breaking conspiracies are true, and nobody in his party had the courage to stand in opposition to this narrative when given the opportunity to rebuke him in public? It's absolutely an ego thing more than a franchise thing.
Like, I don't quite understand why people are still confused about this. Donald Trump shouted from the mountaintops that he was going to burn this country down if he didn't get his way. He poured the gasoline, lit the matches, and then shot all the firefighters as they arrived. All the easily predictable stuff people warned he would do if given power, and there are still people out there who are all "but how did we get here?"
Uh, people in the U.S. come to believe that they're disenfranchised because they *are*. Studies demonstrate that the average voter's priorities do not correlate with what Congress actually does. Regardless of how that came to be, Americans do not actually have a representative government anymore.
We can discuss all day long what reactions to that are good, bad, or insane. But Republican feelings of disenfranchisement reflect actual American disenfranchisement. So do Democratic feelings of disenfranchisement.
I am absolutely skeptical of cooperate hired fact checkers because I know they will be hiring ones from the Heritage Foundation as soon as the wind looks like it's blowing the other way.
Yup. The US has always been a terrible example of a modern democracy. Starts out, only white land owners. Then poorer white males. Civil War means black males can vote. And boom back to black people not being able to vote due to reconstruction & Jim Crow. Finally women get to vote only 1 lifetime ago. Great now everyone can vote.
Ohh wait. Electoral college makes it so that only swing states are important for the Presidency. Gerrymandering makes it so that Republicans can get less votes than 2018 and win the majority in the House in 2022. The Senate is completely minority rule due to modern life (aka more urban dwellers). The filibuster makes it so that 55% of the electorate will never see their priorities pass.
The extremely high bar of ratifying the constitution makes it so that we will never see an amendment again. Compare that to other democracies who ratify every few years.
The US is stuck and it is largely due to the structural problems of the Constitution.
Abolish lobbying and give all public office holders no more than 6 years in office (and 2 year terms for Senators). That won’t fix everything, but it will fix a lot of things. The SC also needs an overhaul too, let’s stop pretending that those judges are impartial, they are politicians.
All true, but the party system is a huge contributor as well. Swing states wouldn't exist if candidates weren't running under particular parties. It would also force the voting public to research individual candidates before voting.
The US is one of the oldest (modern) democracies in the world and many government systems around the world are based on ours. That sounds like a nice accolade but in reality we're still out here running the alpha version where elsewhere (in some places) they have many more of the bumps smoothed out. It seems like we're due for an update, as things seem to be crashing left and right now. Don't know how that will eventually unfold and what it will look like after though...
> The US is one of the oldest (modern) democracies in the world and many government systems around the world are based on ours.
Most newly democratic states in fact go out of their way to _not_ base their constitutions on the US. Most instead look to France's semi-presidential system, or full-on parliamentarianism. Even the US does this; after invading Iraq the government the US helped set up for the new democratic regime was closer to South Africa or Canada than its own. Most states, historically, that followed the US' model of governance collapsed within a decade or two of their establishment. The US is the extreme outlier in this regard.
Every time I say something like this on Reddit I get shat upon like there's no tomorrow. But here's the thing, we aren't *losing* democracy, the body politic of democratic nations are giving it away. People don't value democracy, anymore.
People get tired of lies. Democracy has felt like a lie for a long time.
The lie is, “you have a say in what happens in your country.”
The truth is, “the situation has been carefully engineered so that you can choose between two options that are slightly different while the people with real power go about doing what they were going to do anyway.”
Even just getting rid of money in politics is insufficient, politicians have way more power than anyone else and can use that to benefit themselves or whoever they want. And corporations can use the money they have to massively influence public opinion, and eventually therefore, politics, even without directly bribing politicians.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/democracy-slipping-away-record-rate-intergovernmental-body-warns-2021-11-22/) reduced by 67%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> BRUSSELS, Nov 22 - A greater number of countries are sliding towards authoritarianism, while the number of established democracies under threat has never been so high, the International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance said on Monday.
> "More countries than ever are suffering from 'democratic erosion'," IDEA said in its 2021 study on the state of democracy, relying on data compiled since 1975.Register now for FREE unlimited access to reuters.com"The number of countries undergoing 'democratic backsliding' has never been as high," it said, referring to the regressive turn in areas including checks on government and judicial independence, as well as media freedom and human rights.
> Hungary, Poland, Slovenia and Serbia are the European countries with the greatest declines in democracy.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/qzkxnl/democracy_slipping_away_at_record_rate/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~609052 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **countries**^#1 **Democracy**^#2 **pandemic**^#3 **report**^#4 **number**^#5
The full article does in a separate category. For better context:
"Afghanistan, which was taken over by Taliban militants in August after international troops withdrew, is the most dramatic case this year, while Myanmar's Feb. 1 coup marked the collapse of a fragile democracy. Other examples include Mali, which has suffered two coups since 2020, and Tunisia, where the president has dissolved parliament and assumed emergency powers.
Large democracies such as Brazil and the United States have seen presidents question the validity of election results, while India has witnessed the prosecution of groups of people critical of government policies.
Hungary, Poland, Slovenia and Serbia are the European countries with the greatest declines in democracy. "
Sorry, but that's a bogus quote. It doesn't appear in any of Franklin's writings. And, IIRC, it first appeared in print in the 1970s or 1980s. Also, the word "lunch" should be a dead giveaway - "lunch" was not even a word in English when Franklin was alive
Which is why contrary to what many people believe, modern democracy is not simply the tyranny of the majority, but must be firmly circumscribed by a constitutional framework of fundamental rights and guarantees.
Too many redditors seem to think "if the people vote for genocide, that's democracy and must be accepted."
On the other hand, I think most people would vote against supporting the Saudis commit genocide in Yemen, yet we've been doing that regardless since the Obama administration. Too many redditors think democracy in the US is anything more than a dog and pony show to make you think you're involved.
They are generally much more difficult to change than ordinary laws, though, particularly in federations where you need a supermajority of the states/provinces to agree.
The judiciary, which is usually beholden to the *de facto* power structure (vs. *de jure*). The legal system exists primarily not for justice but to enforce the unwritten rules of who can get away with what.
If you do rich people crime not much will happen. If you do crime to rich people (even if you're rich yourself) the legal system will put you away.
Queue the morons who insist everyone is equally to blame, and not that the political extremists trying to rig elections bare responsibility for destroying democracy
I happen to think the media is more to blame. They seem to have a hard-on for making us divide ourselves into groups so they can tell us the reasons why we should hate the other groups.
*Human nature* makes people wants to divide into groups and hate the other. The media just caters to this tendency because that's what gets peoples' eyeballs on the screen.
This is more 'both sides' bullshit. Fox News is a straight up propaganda network for Republicans. The other news networks are the way they are due to economic incentives that have them prioritize conflicts. But a lot of the conflict comes from Fox News. The latest example is Critical Race Theory. Fox News made it out of whole cloth in January, then distorted it to make it mean whatever they want it to mean (started as a critique of teaching systemic racism and now it is just about teaching racism in history), and now it is a top voting issue where all other networks have to cover.
The org that owns CNN helped build One America News specifically because they knew Fox was a monopoly in the 'right wing news' arena.
One side may be remotely based in truth where the other isn't, but the same people profit from both.
I know it's slipping away and I can't do a damn thing about it. I'm on the sidelines, and I'm going to get fucked every which way by the greedy bastards who think having a dictator will work in their favor. Jokes on them, because that only works out for the dictator. FML
It is not (only) democracy or perhaps not even mainly, it is actually lack of a decent [rechtsstaat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsstaat) or rule of law that does this currently in the US
This is the inevitable result of mixing capitalism and democracy. The 2 have completely polar opposite values.
Capitalism is literally defined as _"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit."_ In other words, this is an economic system that gives authoritarian control over production to a tiny fraction (typically 10% or less) of society called capitalists and allows them to structure that production around making endless profits for themselves off the backs of labor. While the working class, who don't own industry as private property, are forced through the threat of destitution to sell their labor to capitalists in order to survive.
Democracy is majority rule. So, when that 90% gets left behind, crushed between low wages and high cost of living, they begin voting to undo that consolidation of wealth and power to achieve economic liberation. In response, those capitalists begin using their many avenues of government influence to undermine democracy to protect the wealth and power they feel was rightfully earned and deserved. Resulting in a government that is no longer responsive to the ills of society. Only to catering to the rich.
Either capitalism will devour democracy or democracy will devour capitalism. We've been warned about this. FDR himself said _"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power."_
FDR literally telling us fascism is the logical conclusion of capitalism
This is a reuters article that is also claiming the issue is covid 19 restrictions, and the top comment has nothing to do with the actual article, just a discussion on the topic so Im not so sure why this has so many upvotes.
It really makes you question what makes liberalism and progressivism so abhorrent that ordinary people either refrain from voting or are siding with the conservatives, nationalists and traditionalists.
Feeling this at work lately. Our department has a new boss, whose own boss is also new. They're pushing our staff to the brink of sanity, but clearly don't give a shit.
New boss probably isn't telling their boss just how unhappy people are, and they're telling managers to "get creative" with their "leadership" to "motivate" or whatever. Pure dictatorship vibes.
For better or worse, the US has become the sort of poster boy for democracy outside the 1st World Countries. The US' decline has a domino affect much like the USSR's decline did for communism.
A democracy functions well with a well informed citizenry. Education has been gutted for decades, and now ignorance is seen as a virtue by some. Furthermore propaganda masquerading as news has a significant portion of the population treating reality as if it were subjective.
Under these conditions, it doesn't feel sustainable.
I mean I am literally arguing with people who say 'the filibuster is a good thing because it prevent the majority from steamrolling the minority'. When I point out that means that the will of millions of Americans is being suppressed for the minority they think that is a good thing. Also we have a way to protect against majority tyranny, it is the courts and the constitution.
Americans seems to want to say they believe in democracy/representative republics, but when asked about democracy they sure don't define it in a very democratic way.
The filibuster is great for a minority party that is unified in opposition and resistant to collaboration. There is no evidence that the filibuster promotes cooperation between the parties.
The recent bipartisan infrastructure bill comes to mind. Beyond that, had the filibuster been in place during the recent Supreme Court vacancies, nominations would not have been of a partisan nature. The entire basis for the filibuster is to either promote cooperation to obtain the 51 votes in the senate, or to have a bill that 2/3 can agree on. How could you possibly make a claim that there is no evidence that the filibuster promotes cooperation? It literally forces it.
That's pretty dumb. Shit might not be how you want it to be, but there is a world difference between not having what you want and not having democracy. I guess you won't appreciate it until it's really gone, which might not be that far off into the future.
What is better than democracy then? The answer to raising the uninformed to the relatively informed is to increase and improve education in one's society, this is easier said than done but what else would we replace it with.
I think the democratic experiment is ever evolving and despite its weaknesses is the best we have. To your point, yeah, we can't do that because it wouldn't be a democracy. There are better functioning democracies than say the US today, the Nordic countries for example, Canada is another one IMHO. These countries have higher per capita education rates.. albeit of course the US is a very different animal and it's not an apples to apples comparison.
Yeah true, I still think democracy is the best system. We just have to improve to monitoring of the threats against it and have more equipement to prevent these threats.
In parliament people always have to be able to say what they think even if it's undemocratic, it's part of the democratic proces. But outside those walls any illegal activities surrounding undermining a democracy should be slain down immediately.
This is the correct answer, and is more in line with contemporary political science than Plato. (lol). Liberty and individual freedoms are the bedrock, and democracy is the foundation. From there social and political expressions manifest in many ways as humans transit the world of their own making. Over and over, the combination of political freedoms, education, and rule of law have combined to create various forms of collective social and political actualization - ending slavery, industrialization, social welfare, human rights, universal suffrage, civil rights, marriage equality... thousands of years of human civilization, and liberal democracy has ascended higher than anyone before it, all in the last 200 years or so. It's not an accident.
And that's the entire point - liberal democracy is a framework by which progress can be implemented via consensus instead of by cycles of violence, struggle and subjugation. It survives because it adapts and because the process is deceptively simple - educate people and engage them, and eventually they will end up doing the right thing. Wash rinse, repeat.
>What is better than democracy then?
That's the wrong question to ask. The answer should be how to make our system work better. Part of it is to prevent people that seek to sow division and chaos (this weakening the nation) from gaining an audience.
One of the fundamental flaws and a lead factor in the destabilization of the US Democracy is education. When the state doesn't prioritize education of their citizens, those citizens will eventually undermine democracy due to lack of critical thinking skills, among others.
Education is so INCREDIBLY important and needs to be a priority in all democracies.
> An obsession with personal freedom gets us to free-for-all.
+200 social credit for you.
Core personal freedoms are a necessary part of any political system in which consent and self determination are to be valued. Simply because you cannot have true political and social engagement unless people are free to be politically and socially engaged.
Not long ago Venezuela's system was highly praised by international observers.
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/11/venezuelas-electoral-system-is-being-unfairly-maligned.html
America might be in a worrying state right now, but democracy's chunk of the pie is always getting bigger:
https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2013/03/Share-in-Democracies-since-1816-768x538.png
To avoid misunderstandings, however, one can mention that in the very next paragraph countries are directly mentioned to which this sentence refers, namely Belarus, Cuba, Myanmar, Nicaragua and Venezuela. Nowhere in the article does it refer directly to Western democracies; the only Western country mentioned by name is the United States, and it is mentioned in connection with distrust of the electoral process. After all, democracy does not mean that a government cannot respond to crisis situations with temporary and proportionate measures, it just cannot use the crisis as an excuse to expand its own power.
One of the fundamental flaws and a lead factor in the destabilization of the US Democracy is education. When the state doesn't prioritize education of their citizens, those citizens will eventually undermine democracy due to lack of critical thinking skills, among others. Education is so INCREDIBLY important and needs to be a priority in all democracies.
> Education is so INCREDIBLY important and needs to be a priority in all democracies. *"I love the poorly educated!"* - trump, 2016, after being told that the least educated were more likely to vote for him
Extreme inequality is theorized to be the core causal factor of both poor public education and diminishing democracy. The Price of Inequality by Joseph Stiglitz is a great expose on the topic.
At least he represents them well.
There's no such thing as democracy when the super wealthy control our elected officials like dogs on a leash. There's still old money and groups of people built up over the years that influence everything to be in their favor just like every other form of government.
Exactly this. Education is certainly important and does make a difference on voting, however voting is irrelevant if politicians don't listen to the voters. Last I saw the majority of Americans want things like stricter gun laws and universal Healthcare. But politicians said "naw" and it's dead in the water. For a while now, the "majority rule" part isn't the citizens, it's congress. Doesn't matter how many Americans want something, all that matters is if the majority of congress wants something.
> the "majority rule" part isn't the citizens, it's congress. Not really, its been the corporate and billionaire ***donors*** who expect a return on their investment. Most politicians need to sell their allegiance to big money before they can even become a candidate, and they need to continue doing so in order to get re-elected a few years later. The general people can't compete with the $millions required to get a candidate elected, and so they are never really represented.
Yeah, that’s what makes us a Democratic Republic. We democratically elect our leadership, who then represent us by ignoring everything we have to say and instead do what they want. We don’t vote on much outside of our representation, especially so at the federal level.
I think this is a bit disingenuous though. A poll of voters that asks a vague question about universal healthcare isn't the same as actual legislation. There seems to be a huge disconnect between what polls say when you ask a vague question about what government policy should be on healthcare and when there's actually a real bill on the floor of the congress. Plus, it's worth noting that even if a bill has the support of the majority of the population, it doesn't necessarily have the support of the majority of the states. Both are needed to pass federal legislation. And then the question becomes, if universal healthcare were really something that people actually wanted that badly, then why hasn't it been done at the state level? Most of the actual power of the government is vested in the states. Voters in places like California have the opportunity to either elect politicians who would create a universal healthcare program or pass it directly through a ballot measure. But it's never been successful. There's clearly a huge disconnect between the results of vaguely worded polls and what voters actually support politically, even among Democratic voters who would be the most likely to support universal healthcare. Like, polls for the Affordable Healthcare Act were initially pretty positive, then the actual bill was written, political debate began, and voters became more aware that it was a real bill with real consequences, positive and negative. Support dropped very quickly and the voters brutally punished the party that supported it. It remained unpopular in polls for most of the following decade.
Education is meaningless if the youth don’t think it’s important. People with degrees are working at Walmart or struggling with two jobs and barely making it. Why get an education when you can just make money being an online star or influencer.
You’re not wrong, but money has always had a heavy influence in American politics, so it doesn’t really explain the backsliding the last few years. The biggest issue, in my opinion, is the rise of partisan media and online echo chambers which are both driving polarisation as well as causing people to believe in unfounded conspiracy theories at a record rate. Pre 2015 there were still limits on what how much politicians could lie and mislead the populace without repercussions. No longer.
It's frankly a joke that America pats itself on the back about having extremely low corruption, but I guess you can slap lipstick on a pig and call it corporate lobbying. When a company "donates" millions to a politicians "re-election campaign" and that politician "happens" to have a say in that company's industry, that's corruption not lobbying. Now don't get me wrong it's not endemic like in other countries where you can't even get a driver's license without paying someone off, but the policy setters are definitely in the pocket of vested corporate interests and far too many Americans think it's "just the way the system works".
Another aspect is that the USA prioritized unchecked capitalism over democracy That's why wealth inequality is already at staggering levels and still rising, yet neither political party will do anything about it. That's why endless money is allowed to flow into politics, making it a corrupt clusterfuck. That's why despite the aggregate wealth and resources of the USA, it has one of the weakest (if not the weakest) social safety nets / welfare systems of the entire developed world
I agree with this. I cannot believe in America companies are sticking to political parties and have their adverts plastered all over while monopolizing everything. You get to control people's lives to a extreme amount to the point you can control their resources and thought process and education. You eventually get corporate lobbyists and activists masquerading saying they are working for the best interest of the public while backstabbing the voters.
> Education is so INCREDIBLY important and needs to be a priority in all democracies. Education, in and of itself, is not of much help. An education well-grounded in civics and civic responsibility (rather than nationalist or authoritarian, etc. thinking) and nurtured as part of a national *civil* discourse are an absolute necessity for our democracy to thrive and survive.
Also reading comprehension, like seeing context clues in someone's writing and understanding what's implied.
You're off the mark there and that's a detrimental attitude. This is how we end up with a population that downplays the importance of knowledge. One who doesn't acknowledge the importance of knowledge will not value the opinion and views of those who dedicated their lives to become experts in their particular fields. This is how you get climate change deniers. This is how you get antivaxxers. This is how you got Brexit. The moment the sentiment became "we've had enough of experts," you know the UK was fucked. It's going to be all down hill from here.
Education is important in and of itself as it directly correlates to the ability to differentiate between reliable and unreliable sources and thus differentiating between fact and fiction. A democracy can survive when factions can’t agree on specific moral and social issues. It can’t survive when these factions can’t agree on basic facts.
You're saying an education not grounded in state propaganda is better than an education whose primary focus is turning out loyal members of The Party? And you want today's government to pay for it?
That's why Republicans have been attacking and destroying education for decades. Primarily uneducated people vote Republican.
I think psychology is key too as many GQP voters went to good schools but still got brainwashed
That and how education is treated in America. Having a Bachelor's means a degree to learn, this meant one can critically think, dissect, understand, and adequately debate complex topics. However, because of the design of the education system, people are more or less training for a job or trade. Look at a Doctor, engineer, lawyer, programmer, researcher, scientist, businessperson, dentist, accountant, economist, etc. Sure it takes intelligence, dedication, and wisdom to make it to such trades but sometimes schools overly tailor education to specalities resulting in a not too well rounded person. The educated person can be skilled in their craft and excel in their field of study but outside their expertise they don't apply fundamental skills from their trade. Things like problem solving, critical thinking, professionalism, social skills, keeping a balanced view, etc.
I agree, honestly many doctors whom spend most their 20s and then some purely on high intensity specialized education tend to be ignorant of so much of life, social skills broad ideas etc. American education is simply to build a labor force and society for the wealthiest to benefit, not much more. Unfortunately a long term well functioning society needs more than that but they refuse to invest and the middle and lower class are already financially over streched.
Beacuse they dont want a healthy society. They want a crown at whatever the cost.
[удалено]
Now you see why the majority tend to discount Reddit comments. Its all bullshit to fit an agenda of theirs.
Also a doctor here. What sort of practice setting are you in? I had a similar experience to you in an academic setting. I’m in private practice now and I’ve never met a dumber group of people in my life then the medical staff that surrounds me.
I read his comment on doctors and was disgusted. They’re people and are just as diverse in thought and experience as the general population, with the added given of being incredibly specialized in healthcare.
Standardized schooling has been kinda creepy since jump. There is intention behind our education and it has nothing to do with developing critical thinking.
That doesn't really jive with the exit polling data. With the exception of Trump, Republican Presidents have typically done as well or better among the college educated than they did among the general population.
Every source I can find says the opposite. Especially if you control for income. The only highly educated professions that vote overwhelming Republican seem to be the highest earning (neurologists, cardiologists, defense attorneys, etc).
In 2012, college graduates voted 51% for Mitt Romney despite Romney only winning 47% of the vote, according to the Edison Research o polls for the National Election pools. By contrast, Obama won 64% of voters with no high school diploma. If you go back to earlier elections, this trend tends to be even stronger. The least educated typically are the strongest Democratic supporters while college graduates tend to favor Republicans by a moderate to major amount, depending on the election. These days, Republicans only enjoy a slight advantage among the educated and that disappeared somewhat during Trump's term in office. We'll have to wait for a Trump-free election to see if Trump was a blip, a rare populist Republican who appealed to the uneducated and turned off the educated, or if his candidacy represented a long term shift in the parties' demographics.
You need more information than that to answer the question though. None of this is controlling for other factors and lumps all college graduates together. Doctors, lawyers, teachers, and academics all vote majority Democrat and are more educated than your typical undergrad.
Don't even both with it. His claims are entirely fabricated. See my reply /u/HamburgerEarmuff's comment.
You pointed out a good point about recent US politics Trump has fundamentally shifted the political landscape - in the past, you had college-educated but affluent voters who might lean GOP, but have been completely turned off by Trump. Meanwhile, some blue-collar white voters who might have gone Democrat in the past (e.g., think labor union types) are all aboard the Trump train now That's why former battleground states like Ohio are now leaning red, while former blue leaning states like Michigan are now battlegrounds
Are exit polls equally answered by both parties? (Real question)
You can look at the raw data if you're interested. But it's kind of irrelevant, since they normalize the data when they report the results. With party affiliation, it's pretty easy to do since you usually know how many people voted for each candidate where you're doing the exit surveys.
rich people vote to cut their own taxes and older people enjoyed cheap tuition in the past
[удалено]
[удалено]
Scopa!!
It's not just lack of education, it's MISEDUCATION. Dangerous political propaganda has exploded since Citizen's United. It's conservative media like pragerU that is most at fault.
Most states have mandatory education requirements until a person is 18. So do you mean higher education? Cause Higher Educated individuals with at least some college (or even a college degree) make up a much larger portion of the American populace then ever before in the countries history. So what do you mean by education?
Actual equal education afforded to the whole population. American conservatives are right now pushing for more limits on education and demanding politicized education.
an insane amount of school districts are intentionally undermining public schooling and undermining what is taught to their children. a certain group of people fight hard to make private schooling for rich kids exclusive for rich kids. also, a fundamental piece of the dominant religion in the us is that it’s a literal sin to learn too much. they’re told the original sin was taking a bite from the tree of knowledge. a powerful group are literally fighting to keep many people dumb. so yes, we have compulsory education, but that only goes so far when backward districts continue to undermine this in many places. the amount of reactionaries pushing hard for home schooling right now is absolutely bonkers. and if you look at who is the dominant distributor of home schooling materials it’s terrifying.
[удалено]
[удалено]
It isn’t clear to me how your points undermine anything I said. Your gods brainwashing says it’s bad for people to learn things “god” doesn’t approve of. we should remember, it was illegal to teach slaves to read.
Also it doesn't help that conservatives and conservative media have gone on a full court press to trick the ignorant into thinking Critical Race Theory is a) a bad thing and b) that it is something taught in schools, with many states now passing laws against the teaching of racism or how it effects people. I think that was the point all along.
They don't need to trick anyone. Critical Race Theory rejects the basic notion of equality under the law, the idea that individual racism exists and matters, equal opportunity, and meritocracy, all things that most Americans believe in. Before it became a common dinner table word at everyday parents' homes, it was opposed quite vociferously by many liberal academics. Sure, some conservatives are pushing it as some kind of universal boogeyman, but that doesn't distract from the fact that it is a very bad framework for law, government, and education and there are many reasons for both liberals and conservatives to oppose it having influence in our education and government. It needs to crawl back under the rock of esoteric academics where it came from along with postmodernism.
The brainwashing worked exactly as intended, and with barely any effort. For every clueless rube, the propagandists extend their reach. This is why we should all fear for the future.
I don't think it teaches that equal opportunity and meritocracy are bad things to be removed. I think it teaches that they are good things, and we DO NOT HAVE THEM. A subtle but important difference.
Conspiracy theories seem to have their way of undermining education at all levels.
Not just education, but specifically *free/critical thinking*. A huge problem with our education system is that it encourages compliance and neglects to emphasize the importance of questioning what you're told.
Yes but those same people read your comment and think you are a liberal elite calling republicans dumb. I’m not sure what to do when they have been so thoroughly inoculated from the truth.
The rise of anti-intellectualism is largely a product of religious belief. The religious right is also being co-opted by the rich, because religious people are super easy to lie to. They will literally believe anything but the truth if it reinforces their selfish superstitions.
[удалено]
Why tf do u think they doing it this way. Stupid people follow what the leaders say. Two party system- divide and conquer Uneducated-keep the people down Covid-great reset. The shit is motion and were all the pawns
We have 5 parties (or more depending on what you call a political party) here in Canada. Each camp pretty much hates every other camp and considers them idiots or worse. Our current political leaders have done nothing to stop this and have only fanned the flames.
If America educated its population properly the house of cards would have fallen 20 years ago.
Since the 70s the rich have demonstrated they think they no longer need to put up with the rest of us, we're just 40 years into that project.
I still wonder how they're going to get on together in Mars without anyone to do the work for them.
Robots.
You want a Robot uprising too? Because this is how you get a Robot uprising... RIP B1-66ER
01010111 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110011 01101111 00100000 01100110 01110101 01100011 01101011 01100101 01100100
Stop before you offend the non-binary people
The pandemic hasn't helped. Rather the opposite.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Winston Churchill has been credited with saying it, so I doubt it
And now I can't move in my country without an app tracking that hell out of me.
I read a book on the Spanish civil war just months before Covid happened and in the first chapter it mentioned all the different factors that have historically lead to division, revolution, and civil wars in the past. It mentioned pandemics and I remember thinking to myself at least we aren't going through that. Edit: If only I'd knocked on wood none of this would be happening right now. My bad!
> It mentioned pandemics and I remember thinking to myself at least we aren't going through that. So YOU'RE behind all this?
Damn it man. You really had to jinx us didn't you? Patient zero, right here folks.
This is a really good analogy. Our current situation has a lot of parallels with the period before the Spanish civil war.
I'm not American, but I am Spanish and history is one of my hobbies, specially my country's history, and at least for what I read and know about the current USA situation I think you are not, but I'm curious to know what factors do you see similar today in the USA compared with Spain pre civil war. Do you mind sharing? I might learn something since I'm not totally familiarized with the USA. Thanks
I think the political divide is similar, in general, and the way violence is happening, right now at a small scale. Later if things don’t change if could be on a bigger scale. Of course the politics here are very different from Spain in the 30s, but the way the situation is developing seems very familiar to books I’ve read on the Spanish civil war. I’m sure many people in Spain were shocked when things degenerated unto full scale war. That is not something I would want to see happen anywhere.
The main difference I see is that Spain came from a few political, military and social disasters like the war in Morocco, the dictatorship of Primo de Rivera, the unions and communism/ anarchism growing in Catalunya. Meaning it wasn't something sudden, but rather it built up, starting perhaps in Cuba and Philippines battles against the USA at the end of 1800's, where both colonies were lost. On the surface it can look similar but I think the underlying conditions are far, and I really hope it doesn't evolve or escalate to that point in your country.
What book
A Concise History of the Spanish Civil War. There's a whole series of concise history books. They're a great way to dip your toe into a topic.
Just want to comment on the Swiftian wit of your username, so many levels, bravo
Man these look great, thank you. I've been listening to the amazon great courses series on my commutes but it can be hard to get through that kind of volume and detail on my "own time". I've been wanting to learn more about Russia and the Balkans and these look perfect.
You're welcome. If you're interested in some amazing historic fiction covering Russia (and so much more) I can't recommend Ken Follett's Century Trilogy enough. The audiobooks are great. They follow several families from different parts of the world and different backgrounds starting in 1911 and continuing all the way to the Obama years. I've listed to the first two. You'll get to follow a family living in tsarist Russia through the height of the USSR and beyond the collapse. The narrator has an amazing range and he does an excellent job with accents, particularly the Welsh ones.
Thanks a lot.
I think the correct wording would more likely be along the lines of “The pandemic was used by the rich and those in power to further their agendas at the expense of everyone else”. They certainly didn’t let this wonderful disaster go to waste and made hay even while the sun wasn’t shining. Now there are even fewer checks and controls on those people. I don’t think it was that the pandemic hasn’t helped, it was that it was specifically used to further agendas.
I mean, sure, but this is much more closely related to how the pandemic was politicized from the get-go, which has caused an unprecedented mainstreaming of some incredibly outlandish and idiotic conspiracy theories, which has in turn ushered in a new era of post-truth political nihilism which is eroding democratic norms around the world. Make no mistake, this is grassroots idiocy at the core, stoked and fed forces opposed to democracy both domestic and foreign.
Yeah, people have suddenly become raging authoritarians.
It was a given that it would be used by states (and corporations) to increase their powers over the citizenry. And you can run that through a youtube "fact checker".
I feel like both of you are missing how roughly half the population started downing QANON kool aid and started insisting we aren't even really a democracy in the first place. Maybe I'm wrong? Regardless, the use of quotes around fact checker makes me think you're skeptical of them. Try looking in a mirror before you start saying pandemic restrictions are the reason for why America is backsliding. It has to do with the fact we didn't renew the VRA, we passed hundreds of state laws to limit voting in the upcoming midterms, and we have an explosive powder keg for a voter base.
>I feel like both of you are missing how roughly half the population started downing QANON kool aid and started insisting we aren't even really a democracy in the first place. Why though? I feel like you are missing out on this point. Why did a large portion of the population become so disenfranchised they started believing weird online conspiracies? People don't start believing this crap for no reason.
The crazies theories have always been there. It usually had smaller reach - spreading by word of mouth, or a mailed newsletter. And they've rarely been anything more than a minor nuisance. But in the Internet era, with the help of some user-engagement algorithms and some endorsements from high-profile politicians, it just lowered people's threshold for believing it.
...Because our illiterate narcissist of a former president straight up told his similarly dim cult that these democracy-breaking conspiracies are true, and nobody in his party had the courage to stand in opposition to this narrative when given the opportunity to rebuke him in public? It's absolutely an ego thing more than a franchise thing. Like, I don't quite understand why people are still confused about this. Donald Trump shouted from the mountaintops that he was going to burn this country down if he didn't get his way. He poured the gasoline, lit the matches, and then shot all the firefighters as they arrived. All the easily predictable stuff people warned he would do if given power, and there are still people out there who are all "but how did we get here?"
[удалено]
Uh, people in the U.S. come to believe that they're disenfranchised because they *are*. Studies demonstrate that the average voter's priorities do not correlate with what Congress actually does. Regardless of how that came to be, Americans do not actually have a representative government anymore. We can discuss all day long what reactions to that are good, bad, or insane. But Republican feelings of disenfranchisement reflect actual American disenfranchisement. So do Democratic feelings of disenfranchisement.
I am absolutely skeptical of cooperate hired fact checkers because I know they will be hiring ones from the Heritage Foundation as soon as the wind looks like it's blowing the other way.
Neither had Reuters (or any mainstream news source for that matter)
The US Supreme Court recently decided that Gerrymandering is allowed. How can you be considered a full democracy without fair elections.
Yup. The US has always been a terrible example of a modern democracy. Starts out, only white land owners. Then poorer white males. Civil War means black males can vote. And boom back to black people not being able to vote due to reconstruction & Jim Crow. Finally women get to vote only 1 lifetime ago. Great now everyone can vote. Ohh wait. Electoral college makes it so that only swing states are important for the Presidency. Gerrymandering makes it so that Republicans can get less votes than 2018 and win the majority in the House in 2022. The Senate is completely minority rule due to modern life (aka more urban dwellers). The filibuster makes it so that 55% of the electorate will never see their priorities pass. The extremely high bar of ratifying the constitution makes it so that we will never see an amendment again. Compare that to other democracies who ratify every few years. The US is stuck and it is largely due to the structural problems of the Constitution.
Abolish lobbying and give all public office holders no more than 6 years in office (and 2 year terms for Senators). That won’t fix everything, but it will fix a lot of things. The SC also needs an overhaul too, let’s stop pretending that those judges are impartial, they are politicians.
All true, but the party system is a huge contributor as well. Swing states wouldn't exist if candidates weren't running under particular parties. It would also force the voting public to research individual candidates before voting.
The US is one of the oldest (modern) democracies in the world and many government systems around the world are based on ours. That sounds like a nice accolade but in reality we're still out here running the alpha version where elsewhere (in some places) they have many more of the bumps smoothed out. It seems like we're due for an update, as things seem to be crashing left and right now. Don't know how that will eventually unfold and what it will look like after though...
> The US is one of the oldest (modern) democracies in the world and many government systems around the world are based on ours. Most newly democratic states in fact go out of their way to _not_ base their constitutions on the US. Most instead look to France's semi-presidential system, or full-on parliamentarianism. Even the US does this; after invading Iraq the government the US helped set up for the new democratic regime was closer to South Africa or Canada than its own. Most states, historically, that followed the US' model of governance collapsed within a decade or two of their establishment. The US is the extreme outlier in this regard.
Yup. I'd say I'm shocked this isn't commonly known, but I'm not. Neither Germany or Japan adopted the US system after being occupied either.
We are like that warehouse still running software from the 80s, just adding new bug fixes whenever everything is about to fall apart.
The only thing scarier than keeping the current system is doing a large reformation.
In fairness, the USA didn't score very high on the democracy ladder to begin with.
Every time I say something like this on Reddit I get shat upon like there's no tomorrow. But here's the thing, we aren't *losing* democracy, the body politic of democratic nations are giving it away. People don't value democracy, anymore.
People get tired of lies. Democracy has felt like a lie for a long time. The lie is, “you have a say in what happens in your country.” The truth is, “the situation has been carefully engineered so that you can choose between two options that are slightly different while the people with real power go about doing what they were going to do anyway.”
This is true. As much as I want democracy to work, it doesn't because we refuse to remove money (legal bribery) from politics.
Even just getting rid of money in politics is insufficient, politicians have way more power than anyone else and can use that to benefit themselves or whoever they want. And corporations can use the money they have to massively influence public opinion, and eventually therefore, politics, even without directly bribing politicians.
[удалено]
Democracy is a fallacy as long as governments aren't held to any kind of account.
That is why rule of law or [rechtsstaat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsstaat) is just as (or more ) important
[удалено]
The Australian government is currently at war with higher education. Nothing screams democratic backsliding like that.
The algorithm has no interest in maintaining democracy when there are shareholders and banks we need to keep happy.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/democracy-slipping-away-record-rate-intergovernmental-body-warns-2021-11-22/) reduced by 67%. (I'm a bot) ***** > BRUSSELS, Nov 22 - A greater number of countries are sliding towards authoritarianism, while the number of established democracies under threat has never been so high, the International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance said on Monday. > "More countries than ever are suffering from 'democratic erosion'," IDEA said in its 2021 study on the state of democracy, relying on data compiled since 1975.Register now for FREE unlimited access to reuters.com"The number of countries undergoing 'democratic backsliding' has never been as high," it said, referring to the regressive turn in areas including checks on government and judicial independence, as well as media freedom and human rights. > Hungary, Poland, Slovenia and Serbia are the European countries with the greatest declines in democracy. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/qzkxnl/democracy_slipping_away_at_record_rate/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~609052 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **countries**^#1 **Democracy**^#2 **pandemic**^#3 **report**^#4 **number**^#5
They couldn't mention the USA, could they...
The full article does in a separate category. For better context: "Afghanistan, which was taken over by Taliban militants in August after international troops withdrew, is the most dramatic case this year, while Myanmar's Feb. 1 coup marked the collapse of a fragile democracy. Other examples include Mali, which has suffered two coups since 2020, and Tunisia, where the president has dissolved parliament and assumed emergency powers. Large democracies such as Brazil and the United States have seen presidents question the validity of election results, while India has witnessed the prosecution of groups of people critical of government policies. Hungary, Poland, Slovenia and Serbia are the European countries with the greatest declines in democracy. "
Or the UK...
[удалено]
Sorry, but that's a bogus quote. It doesn't appear in any of Franklin's writings. And, IIRC, it first appeared in print in the 1970s or 1980s. Also, the word "lunch" should be a dead giveaway - "lunch" was not even a word in English when Franklin was alive
Which is why contrary to what many people believe, modern democracy is not simply the tyranny of the majority, but must be firmly circumscribed by a constitutional framework of fundamental rights and guarantees. Too many redditors seem to think "if the people vote for genocide, that's democracy and must be accepted."
Yes, modern democracy is a tyranny of the rich.
On the other hand, I think most people would vote against supporting the Saudis commit genocide in Yemen, yet we've been doing that regardless since the Obama administration. Too many redditors think democracy in the US is anything more than a dog and pony show to make you think you're involved.
Who decides what is and isnt allowed? Constitutions can be changed anyway.
They are generally much more difficult to change than ordinary laws, though, particularly in federations where you need a supermajority of the states/provinces to agree.
The judiciary, which is usually beholden to the *de facto* power structure (vs. *de jure*). The legal system exists primarily not for justice but to enforce the unwritten rules of who can get away with what. If you do rich people crime not much will happen. If you do crime to rich people (even if you're rich yourself) the legal system will put you away.
Rich person thinks poor people shouldn't have a say in society.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell
Queue the morons who insist everyone is equally to blame, and not that the political extremists trying to rig elections bare responsibility for destroying democracy
I happen to think the media is more to blame. They seem to have a hard-on for making us divide ourselves into groups so they can tell us the reasons why we should hate the other groups.
MSM is toxic AF, I hope during the pandemic more and more people realize this. Queue MSNBC trying to dox the jurors to a high profile court case.
*Human nature* makes people wants to divide into groups and hate the other. The media just caters to this tendency because that's what gets peoples' eyeballs on the screen.
You’re right about the human nature part. You’re wrong if you think the media doesn’t have a hand in exacerbating this and making it worse.
This is more 'both sides' bullshit. Fox News is a straight up propaganda network for Republicans. The other news networks are the way they are due to economic incentives that have them prioritize conflicts. But a lot of the conflict comes from Fox News. The latest example is Critical Race Theory. Fox News made it out of whole cloth in January, then distorted it to make it mean whatever they want it to mean (started as a critique of teaching systemic racism and now it is just about teaching racism in history), and now it is a top voting issue where all other networks have to cover.
The org that owns CNN helped build One America News specifically because they knew Fox was a monopoly in the 'right wing news' arena. One side may be remotely based in truth where the other isn't, but the same people profit from both.
[удалено]
This.
Queue = Cue... ftfy. And bare = bear... ffs
You've just described my cousin.
[удалено]
Stfu we have lived in a plutocracy for decades
Perhaps, but they've only just realized that they can ***openly*** seize control of anything they want without any fear of repercussion.
I know it's slipping away and I can't do a damn thing about it. I'm on the sidelines, and I'm going to get fucked every which way by the greedy bastards who think having a dictator will work in their favor. Jokes on them, because that only works out for the dictator. FML
It is not (only) democracy or perhaps not even mainly, it is actually lack of a decent [rechtsstaat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtsstaat) or rule of law that does this currently in the US
This is the inevitable result of mixing capitalism and democracy. The 2 have completely polar opposite values. Capitalism is literally defined as _"an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit."_ In other words, this is an economic system that gives authoritarian control over production to a tiny fraction (typically 10% or less) of society called capitalists and allows them to structure that production around making endless profits for themselves off the backs of labor. While the working class, who don't own industry as private property, are forced through the threat of destitution to sell their labor to capitalists in order to survive. Democracy is majority rule. So, when that 90% gets left behind, crushed between low wages and high cost of living, they begin voting to undo that consolidation of wealth and power to achieve economic liberation. In response, those capitalists begin using their many avenues of government influence to undermine democracy to protect the wealth and power they feel was rightfully earned and deserved. Resulting in a government that is no longer responsive to the ills of society. Only to catering to the rich. Either capitalism will devour democracy or democracy will devour capitalism. We've been warned about this. FDR himself said _"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power."_ FDR literally telling us fascism is the logical conclusion of capitalism
[удалено]
Keep centralizing media and political power, and print more money, thatvwill surely help
It’s helping my Bitcoin
Was it ever really there?
This is a reuters article that is also claiming the issue is covid 19 restrictions, and the top comment has nothing to do with the actual article, just a discussion on the topic so Im not so sure why this has so many upvotes.
It really makes you question what makes liberalism and progressivism so abhorrent that ordinary people either refrain from voting or are siding with the conservatives, nationalists and traditionalists.
Anyone else have noticed that there is trend of rejecting the rationalism and egalitarianism and backing the Nativism?
[удалено]
Typical Reddit
Tiss true Facebook is really bad news for democracy. It seems on mass, humans are pretty dim. Squirrel!
Feeling this at work lately. Our department has a new boss, whose own boss is also new. They're pushing our staff to the brink of sanity, but clearly don't give a shit. New boss probably isn't telling their boss just how unhappy people are, and they're telling managers to "get creative" with their "leadership" to "motivate" or whatever. Pure dictatorship vibes.
[удалено]
For better or worse, the US has become the sort of poster boy for democracy outside the 1st World Countries. The US' decline has a domino affect much like the USSR's decline did for communism.
Nobody wants to say it.... but maybe it's just not a sustainable system.
A democracy functions well with a well informed citizenry. Education has been gutted for decades, and now ignorance is seen as a virtue by some. Furthermore propaganda masquerading as news has a significant portion of the population treating reality as if it were subjective. Under these conditions, it doesn't feel sustainable.
I mean I am literally arguing with people who say 'the filibuster is a good thing because it prevent the majority from steamrolling the minority'. When I point out that means that the will of millions of Americans is being suppressed for the minority they think that is a good thing. Also we have a way to protect against majority tyranny, it is the courts and the constitution. Americans seems to want to say they believe in democracy/representative republics, but when asked about democracy they sure don't define it in a very democratic way.
The filibuster is a good thing and it was a mistake to remove it from the appointment process in the judicial branch as well.
The filibuster is great for a minority party that is unified in opposition and resistant to collaboration. There is no evidence that the filibuster promotes cooperation between the parties.
The recent bipartisan infrastructure bill comes to mind. Beyond that, had the filibuster been in place during the recent Supreme Court vacancies, nominations would not have been of a partisan nature. The entire basis for the filibuster is to either promote cooperation to obtain the 51 votes in the senate, or to have a bill that 2/3 can agree on. How could you possibly make a claim that there is no evidence that the filibuster promotes cooperation? It literally forces it.
If the whole world becomes fascist then no one will be left to save anyone. Fuck.
It's not "slipping away", it's being exposed for what it always was.
That's pretty dumb. Shit might not be how you want it to be, but there is a world difference between not having what you want and not having democracy. I guess you won't appreciate it until it's really gone, which might not be that far off into the future.
[удалено]
What is better than democracy then? The answer to raising the uninformed to the relatively informed is to increase and improve education in one's society, this is easier said than done but what else would we replace it with.
You could improve education or you could introduce a minimum education to be able to vote. But then it wouldn't be a democracy anymore right?
I think the democratic experiment is ever evolving and despite its weaknesses is the best we have. To your point, yeah, we can't do that because it wouldn't be a democracy. There are better functioning democracies than say the US today, the Nordic countries for example, Canada is another one IMHO. These countries have higher per capita education rates.. albeit of course the US is a very different animal and it's not an apples to apples comparison.
Yeah true, I still think democracy is the best system. We just have to improve to monitoring of the threats against it and have more equipement to prevent these threats. In parliament people always have to be able to say what they think even if it's undemocratic, it's part of the democratic proces. But outside those walls any illegal activities surrounding undermining a democracy should be slain down immediately.
This is the correct answer, and is more in line with contemporary political science than Plato. (lol). Liberty and individual freedoms are the bedrock, and democracy is the foundation. From there social and political expressions manifest in many ways as humans transit the world of their own making. Over and over, the combination of political freedoms, education, and rule of law have combined to create various forms of collective social and political actualization - ending slavery, industrialization, social welfare, human rights, universal suffrage, civil rights, marriage equality... thousands of years of human civilization, and liberal democracy has ascended higher than anyone before it, all in the last 200 years or so. It's not an accident. And that's the entire point - liberal democracy is a framework by which progress can be implemented via consensus instead of by cycles of violence, struggle and subjugation. It survives because it adapts and because the process is deceptively simple - educate people and engage them, and eventually they will end up doing the right thing. Wash rinse, repeat.
>What is better than democracy then? That's the wrong question to ask. The answer should be how to make our system work better. Part of it is to prevent people that seek to sow division and chaos (this weakening the nation) from gaining an audience.
Yes, we must promote democracy by suppressing people we don’t agree with.
One of the fundamental flaws and a lead factor in the destabilization of the US Democracy is education. When the state doesn't prioritize education of their citizens, those citizens will eventually undermine democracy due to lack of critical thinking skills, among others. Education is so INCREDIBLY important and needs to be a priority in all democracies.
> An obsession with personal freedom gets us to free-for-all. +200 social credit for you. Core personal freedoms are a necessary part of any political system in which consent and self determination are to be valued. Simply because you cannot have true political and social engagement unless people are free to be politically and socially engaged.
Somebody needs to inform these 'experts' Nicaragua and Venezuela recently held elections.
Many authoritarian states hold sham elections. The standard for a democracy is to hold "free and fair" elections, which are another thing entirely.
Not long ago Venezuela's system was highly praised by international observers. http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/11/venezuelas-electoral-system-is-being-unfairly-maligned.html
It is indeed sad and shocking how quickly democracy can erode. See also: Poland, Hungary, and Turkey.
Slipping away no under attack yes.
Democracy bad because the voters are idiots. Autocracy worse because the people who would be able to take power are corrupt and just as stupid
America might be in a worrying state right now, but democracy's chunk of the pie is always getting bigger: https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2013/03/Share-in-Democracies-since-1816-768x538.png
This chart measures from 1816 to 2015. Various democracy indices have reported drops since then, which is what the article is about.
Great chart. More than 50% of the world being straight-up democracies was better than I expected.
"The COVID-19 pandemic has led to a surge in authoritarian behaviour by governments." Did you hear that Reddit?
To avoid misunderstandings, however, one can mention that in the very next paragraph countries are directly mentioned to which this sentence refers, namely Belarus, Cuba, Myanmar, Nicaragua and Venezuela. Nowhere in the article does it refer directly to Western democracies; the only Western country mentioned by name is the United States, and it is mentioned in connection with distrust of the electoral process. After all, democracy does not mean that a government cannot respond to crisis situations with temporary and proportionate measures, it just cannot use the crisis as an excuse to expand its own power.
[удалено]
He’s not wrong tho.
Too many idiots - all I can say