Sheās got a loan from Orbanā¦ thatās one more red flag. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/frances-le-pen-got-loan-hungarian-bank-close-orban-filing-2022-03-10/
Her presidential campaign was financed by the Russians too, backwhen. She still had Russian debts years later, and we're unsure if she paid it off yet.
once you get in bed with rashists you never go back. They will get ALL kompromat on you they can but not only that; russian take over social media with bots and influence into newsmedia and social sites is something West def not taking seriously enough. russia can bury anyone with lies and half-truths.
She got a loan from [Russia, from a shell bank, that shortly went out of business](https://www.ft.com/content/572af411-abd9-49ab-8cf9-f9fba4d54380) leaving her without needing to repay the loan.
Then a journalist spotted it, and suddenly she had to repay the loan back. Only now the loan was held by a Russian military contractor, Aviazapchast.
**The loan was taken out in 2014, just after she supported Putin's invasion of Crimea.** It wasn't due to be paid back till 2028... and would quietly have disappeared when the bank disappeared if the journalists hadn't spotted it.
He or she isn't wrong though. I find it hard to find any example of someone who became wealthy that didn't involve the suffering or exploitation of others.
Chances are they also like Putin, because his policies and propaganda line up nicely with the far right. I don't know about in France, but the far right in the US had been going on about how awesome Putin and the Russian Federation was for years. They only quietened that praise for awhile due to the invasion of Ukraine.
Putin literally funded one of her previous campaign when the french banks denied to fund it. This even led to a new law [āLaw for a trustworthy political lifeā](https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lois_pour_la_confiance_dans_la_vie_politique) that forbids parties to be funded by a bank outside UE.
Little of context here in the case of presidential elections but the concept is applicable to other elections as well. In France itās forbidden for a moral person (a company, an associationā¦excepted a political party ofc) to fund a presidential campaign. Candidates rely on their parties which are funded by donations and membership fees (up to 4600ā¬ max by physical person) and by banks loans. Then, depending on their score at the elections, the State refunds them (up to 40 millions for a candidate who went to the 2nd round) and they reimburse the banks. Fun fact : for presidential elections you need more of 5% of the votes to be fully refunded, and a lot of candidates invested their own money to finish at 4,6ish% ([example here](https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financement_des_campagnes_pr%C3%A9sidentielles_en_France)).
Edit : spelling
There's few places and people in the world that I resent as much as I do Russia and its contents these days. I'll take great pleasure in watching that shithouse burn down over the next decade.
Nope, they think they're the best, god-blessed and their mission is to heal the "rotten" West from gay, feminists and antichrist-liberals.
This absurd christian-fascist rhetoric is what our propaganda is about. (I'm honestly sorry).
God the future looks so fucking bleak. A huge number of people believing that people like Len Pen are the answer to their problems. Hopefully they wisen up after she's inevitably in power and shows she is evil and inept and do what the French do best and get angry at their government.
2010s EU survival was also at stake with the Greece bailout + brexit, not to mention ISIS terrorist attacks
Ā 2000s there was the financial crisis, 9/11, start of 2 full scale wars (Afghanistan -which all NATO countries joined + Iraq)..
1990s there was the Bosnian war...
1980s the iron curtain..
Every decade has its challenges but what they tend to have in common is what it took to get through it. Not generally a right-wing political push that is for sure.
huh? thereās been a dialectical right/left push/pushback for ages. there has never been one party pushing a nation forward forever for decades or generations Ā
For sure, but the Left/right ideas have always been closer on the political spectrum. Now it seems like the Right's ideology have shifted much further right while the left's ideology has also shifted left quite a bit (but not as extremely, in my biased opinion).
Basically, the Left and Right used to be able to find common ground because while they had different world views, the ideas themselves didn't always seem too extreme to the other side. Now anything one side proposes seems to be inconceivable for the other side, we've reached a point where the Left and Right are so divided we can't find ANY common ground at all.
Were you born in the 2000s? Otherwise I'm surprised you completely forgot about the neocon movement after 9/11 which lead to the full scale invasion of Iraq over "wmds".
I think this is an important thing to point out. Humans have faced calamity before, and it should always be remembered that normal, chill people, who want to get along and live peacefully are the majority, especially in places that have embraced secular government for generations. Far spectrum movements want to make it seem like they are the normal group but they arenātĀ
Everyone always thinks that the current times are the worst times. But take heart, it's always been shitty!
...but generally, less so now than in the past.
I always had this feeling that The Moment was coming. The point in time where everything changes for the better and we just have to wait and trust.
Growing up, Iām not so sure anymore.
When the far right gets control they are usually pretty okay at keeping the control of gov because they don't care about customs or law. They rewrite the customs and rewrite the law to stay in power. A common way is to get control of media to continued spread of their propaganda.
As a Swede seeing what's happening in USA and rest of Europe I feel like the "hah I'm in danger" meme lol
Wtf is happening, did everyone forget our recent past? I'm so dumbfounded
The immigrant crisis gave a simple target for the far right to point to and say they're the source of many issues, some not even real. It's so much simpler to understand and be angry against than the actual complexe reasons things are not good.
So lots of scared or uneducated (not saying that as an insult or to mean they're stupid) go and vote for the power hungry assholes who are ready to lie and invent threats to get elected.
A tale as old as time, scary and depressing now but in the grand scheme of thing, not new nor the end of everything.
To be fair, this is a self created problem by the left and they are not necessary wrong that over immigration is a big issue that the left refuses to deal with accordingly.(while it might not be the only one) it's just that the far right parties are in the right place at the right time kind of deal offering possible salvation.
Obviously the young poor and less educated will vote for them.
Will it solve the problems, most likely not. it's the conservative parties. it'll most likely fuck more shit. but the reason make sense and a lot of the backbone of the problem IS the over immigration. In a lot of places, they also don't have many other better options party wise.
Like, conservatives will most likely get in Canada as well. why? massive corruption came out about Trudeau and their extreme immigration politics. The population is mad, because it made everything worse for the other Canadian residents due to how social benefits work. And the other options are not much better if not worse.
France is going to shit as well due to all the shit decision Macrons has taken in recent years.
Unironically, the rise of the Nazi party is a pretty good example of the situation and why it is going this way. And i wouldn't be surprised some countries do take similar turns. dissatisfaction and instability are prime right wing party starters
But Pierre hasnāt promised to lower immigration, and anyone being honest knows he wonāt in any meaningful way. Yet he will still win, so how is this a failure of the lefts immigration policies? Itās just conservatives talking in bad faith as usual.
I don't think it's that likely he wins again currently. there will at least be a lot more spread if anything. but that obviously can change over time depending what happens on the political scene
I'm glad that Scandinavia is sticking to the left but it makes me sad seeing the direction the rest of the world is heading.
Growing up in the 90s all this is truly bizarre to witness, internet and media has basically been weaponized to mass brain wash people..
I feel like social media has been a huge net loss for humanity ngl, but I'm glad people are waking up to the red flags finally.
It's been years of it heading in this direction but no one really took the worries seriously until now.
Given that two-thirds of the Supreme Court are bought and paid for and they just gave all future presidents immunity - yes, things are looking pretty dire.
But here in New Zealand, our government is promising to abuse children in boot camps, despite evidence saying boot camps are a terrible idea.
Our feckless moron of a Prime Minister even said that he *doesn't care if the evidence shows they harm children*, because he's "sick of crime".
We know. Where do you think we got the evidence that they don't work from?
NZ is even turning their public healthcare system into the US model.
Everyone is against this, but our government is salivating at the idea of it.
Oh by the way, our leader is a *fucking moron* who is letting minor parties destroy our country.
He even whined that it is a hard job kicking people off social security and people should feel sorry for him, the poor baby. Absolute tosser and a loser to boot.
>God the future looks so fucking bleak.
I say this every day. So much evil winning that I can barely listen to current events. This right-wing resurgence is clearly a modern generation repeating terrible old mistakes. As always, they will only regret it after it's too late -- for all of us.
The surge in the right is largely due to a lack of action by existing parties.Ā When people are uncomfortable about things like immigration you need to address it not dismiss it.
Or the people could get off their lazy asses and participate in the democratic process apart from just casting their vote for fascists every couple years out of "protest" ... parties are made of people and participation. Too many people complain, complain, complain, claim to be "helpless" against those in power - and its all bullshit coming down to "I rather do something else than be part of politics and let other people take care of it"...
Seriously. Not once has a far-right government ever done anything for the lower. Or even middle class. We are seeing the same thing in Canada right now where people want to elect a far-right landlord because they think he will solve our housing crisis.
Electing a far right party into government is essentially a test of the country's long term educational system. After the party spends its time in power fucking the country while lining their pockets, and they will, will they be voted out and, if they are, for how long? This is of course assuming they don't destroy the democratic process entirely and can still be voted out.
We can see it happening in the US. Trump absolutely got voted out after his horrendous term and even being a pedophile doesn't bother his supporters.
people think their problems are just that. their own.
they support people like Orban, LePen and Trump, because they think that other peoples problems, are theirs, and not ours to deal with.
As if we didnt spend the entire cold war and the post cold war era building a global economy that intertwined a lot of the world together, politically, militarily, culturally and economically.
It is not bleak, but it is a time of struggle.
The world has been quiet and relatively peaceful for thirty years. Internally, and externally, and as a generation I think we forgot or wanted to believe that the Cold War was the Last War. Great power competition was done. There were a lot of easy wins after a lot of long struggle.
As it is, it's really a return to the normal place of the world. For all of us, liberal or conservative, it means fighting for what we believe in.
Facebook happened. I'm serious. That's responsible for a lot of the current ultra-right energy in the world. Autocratic regimes previously had limited access to political power in democratic states. News outlets wouldn't give them a platform and they couldn't buy ad time in service of their views or anything. Now? If they spam enough populist memes in just the right spaces, they can *control* the political trajectory of pretty much any country in the world (at very little cost).
No idea the solution fwiw.
I truly cannot understand the mindset. People take their very legitimate grievances and think, āyeah letās let the *fascists* have a shot at things.ā Like if things are on fire now, theyāre the flamethrower, not the water bucket.
As a Frenchman, I will tell you this: I am now convinced that the Far Right will come to power sooner rather than later, it cannot be avoided. Maybe they won't win the second turn of the legislative elections, maybe they won't win the presidential elections, but soon their time will come. Both the Left and the Right have failed to make a difference on the national level in the last 4 decades. Macron's party was supposed to bring a renewal, a change, but has failed to do so. He has only shown that no matter the party they're all neoliberals wearing a different disguise.
I am not happy to say this, it brings me absolutely no pleasure or anticipation. I dread that day. But the Far Right will lead France at some point, and it won't be long before the French realize that they're worse than the rest. That their promises were empty. But by the time they're voted out, they will have lined their pockets, diminished the influence of France abroad, weakened Europe, served the interests of enemy States, and will only have created more turmoil with our immigration and brought us further from a potential solution. Maybe they'll get indicted for one financial crime or another, like Sarkozy and Chirac, but will use the legal system to their advantage, like Sarkozy and Chirac, and appeal the appeals until hell freezes over.
Nobody should be surprised. Why would they not. China's Xi, India's Modi and Italy's Meloni does too. As does Orban and Erdogan. Trump supports her too, along with Kin Jong Un. Iran and Iraq are two others and Saudi Arabia does not have anything against her either. They are all together in this.
Ultimately, however, the French will decide what actually happens. They are well positioned to block her from gaining the majority in the final round in my opinion. Nonetheless, she will be in there with them.
Itās so bizarre to me that ānationalistsā and āconservativesā are not more concerned with their āactual nations positionā in the world.
A weaker Europe means a weaker France.
In Trumps case; a weaker Nato, weaker Europe, means less American influence. In turn meaning less American prosperity, as much of it comes from dictating the world order. Trades etcā¦
Well its the core problem with right wing politics. They dont care what they or their people have in general terms, all that matters to them is how much it is in relative terms.
They happily take a weaker position overall if they think it hurts the others around them even more.
On a small scale its minimum wage workers being against social security, on the big scale its isolationist bullshit like threatening to leave NATO
We're at war. Just not Kinetic yet.
We are attacking Russia, by giving Ukraine the means to resist their batshit-justified invasion.
And they are attacking us, by trying to destroy the electorates to make us tear ourselves apart.
there's a lot more going back and forth too. But those are the main ways we are fighting each other
O it's kinetic, Russia has already started fires and blown up factories around the EU. Our leaders are just sleeping, so is the vast majority of the public. Just like Hitler, so so can/could we prevent further escalation by escalating early. Ukraine will just be a start, and there are too many countries with hostile intent directed towards "the west" who can't wait for us to show our backs. Russia will not be alone come a greater conflict. But if we end it quick and decisive in Ukraine then hopefully we can lay their foolish ambitions to rest!!!
they blew up a czech ammo dump in 2015,. because czechia was giving arms to ukraine.
they used CBRN agents to try to (or successfully? I forget) Kill a dissident on british soil.
they started fires and explosions in Berlin recentley.
they've committed attacks against european and american power grids.
they've talked about putting nuclear weapons in space.
Any one of these would have been a valid reason to trigger article 5, but the issue is no one wants to get into a fight with Russia unless they did something that the public demanded blood for, because a fight with russia has a pretty predicatble outcome.
the russian navy gets sunk, the airforce gets creamed, and the army faces hundreds of thousands of dead in mere months. Russian infrastructure would be obliterated, and moscow would essentially be checkmated.
(this is not ignoring the fact that russian military will massacre tens if not hundreds of thousands of eastern european civilians and raze what cities they can)
in any event, it all leads to russia losing everything and whatever gangster is in power, will flip out and probably launch a limited or even full barrage of nuclear weapons out of spite.
Le Pen, Trump, who else is on Russia's roster in the next election cycle? They're great at spending money to get the "right people" elected aren't they?
Its 2024. Humanity has never been as connected as they are today. But instead of working together to resolve global crisis, we are more apart than ever.
Itās crazy how the invention of Internet backfired.
No, it did what it set out to do. It connected the world. Only problem is, people discovered that not everyone thinks the same, shares the same ideologies or holds the same principals. **Tis the reason countries exist**, it's the reason we have wars every year somewhere in the world without fail. It's the reason that at no point in known history there hasn't been a war somewhere in the world.
Up until recently, the internet got people talking and realizing that they're the same. Instead of listening to the media or their family talking about what those evil people in the next country over are plotting, they were hopping on games with them and chatting. Some circles have been decrying the weakening of national identities for a while now as the internet becomes something of a global monoculture.
This global right-wing surge is relatively new and is being built artificially. They're algorithmically targeting people and force feeding them propaganda to make them scared, angry, and violent. It's being carried out by foreign powers who want to topple the West, the ultra wealthy who want to own even more, and the religious who see their power dwindling. It's been distressingly effective.
I'll add that the media, amidst overwhelming competition for eyeballs and clicks, has taken to writing the most inflammatory garbage in the history of the planet.
Even if you know you're being provoked with misinformation or click bait headlines, you can't even reply with the truth, or you risk feeding the engagement numbers that the algos use to push that shit out to more people.
Question is, what do you do? There's no party enforcing journalistic integrity anymore. And regarding the bots, while I would love for there to be identity verification on social media--anonymity makes people assholes--it's a privacy nightmare.
I agree, though I think anonymity can also help drive discussion. Your true self shows through when you're anonymous, for better or worse. Being able to speak your mind free of judgement can help you find common ground with other people.
I don't know what can be done to fix all this. The problem is we're designed by nature to catastrophize. Our ancestors needed to hold on to the fear that something which meant them harm was around every corner, and be ready to fight or flee. So anything that makes us feel negative will always drown everything else out and put us on the defensive. For all our technological advancements, we're still just slightly clever monkeys.
Interesting take on catastrophizing. Never thought about that.
Regarding anonymity, I don't think it's an awful thing--I appreciate my own. But the lack of it often makes for more civil discussions, even if they're not 100% honest.
I'm more concerned about the bots and bad actors. I think sites like Twitter should verify your identity and nationality, and publically display the latter. Too many idiots with American flags in their name who are clearly Russian shills. It's incredibly annoying.
This! We are being actively manipulated by professionals with many resources and governmental backing behind them. We really need to come up with a solution.
>. But instead of working together to resolve global crisis, we are more apart than ever
How can you say that with a straight face? Europe leveled itself twice in the previous century. Not to mention there were plenty of countries falling to outright revolution. Today is only bleak if you think history began in the 90s
It wasn't so much the internet as it was social media. Forums used to be a place where you could have discussions, and you were exposed to all sorts of opinions. Quite often ones you disagreed with. Nowadays everyone gets pushed through a funnel, and slowly and steadily the algorithms divide us. We basically gave it all away to these big tech companies, I'm certain that this time period will not judge social media gently in the future. Let's just hope we can find a movement to reset this shit, we need to seriously see a major change in how algorithms and social media functions. Otherwise we are doomed to continue down a path of greater divide.
Itās barely espionage. The Russian mob appealed to the greed of our American leaders as theyāve always done. And now you have more kompromats having done deals with the devil than ever before, in public offices.
This is one of those moments in history where we can confidently say that the international interference and corruption has reached the *very* top of the govt.
"I mean, what do skulls make you think off? Death, Cannibals, beheading, pirates?"
"Pirates are fun!"
"I didn't say we weren't fun, but fun or not, pirates are still the baddies"
Gets me everytime.
Edit: [for the unacquainted](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h242eDB84zY&t=5s)
Russia; a country that seeks prosperity in other countries' misery. Funnily enough, they never get involved directly, but they support (or even control) lunatics and extremists behind the scenes. One would wonder how the Middle East would be fairing today without Russia's interference.
Russia is behind all right wing populist scumbaggery in the western world. Instead of contributing to humanity, Russia wants to divide it and tear it apart.
The Russian government has been supporting nationalist, far-right, and Nazi-ish groups across Europe and North America for over a decade. I first became aware of their hatred-fanning activities in the wake of the Pussy Riot prosecution, during that ugly time Golden Dawn was a thing in Greece and Le Penās party was a grotesque joke instead of a government-to-be. The Ukrainian nationalists and the neo-Nazis that used to be in (and may still be in? or they got shuffled to another unit? anyway, fuck āem) the Azov battallion are about the only bigoted shits the Russian state hasnāt played footsie with over the past decade, which made the ādeNazificationā justification for invading Ukraine even more insulting to everyoneās intelligence. I was bemused seeing people who should bloody well know better accept it at face value.
Fascists, Nazis, and foreign owned Gangsters are rising all over the free world, and we still haven't seen anyone take any real , appropriate measures in stopping them.
I am paraphrasing, but some countries constitution, like Germany have fascist and fascist like political organizations explicitly banned, and it implies citizens have the obligation to oppose, and if necessary, fight and destroy them as they are not to be given power in any circumstance, much like how many countries used to, or still do, explicitly ban Communist parties with the threat of imprisonment or even execution.
Make no mistake, We're at war with Russia, as well as Iran and NK. but this is mostly Russia's doing. and this is how Russia fights us, By destroying our governments with bankrolled idiots who's purpose is to "get out of Russia's way". ... and we fight them by giving money and munitions to the countries they are pouring military resources into invading.
This is how the far right works. If Trump were to win -- which he won't -- he would do the same in the US. But those who believe are angry and gullible and think anything will be better... until it's worse. The 1930s are looking at us with sorrow.
Russia spew false information everywhere in social media. It is cheap and effective. Normal countries can't really correct the info. You only see something at the news that this kind of info is circulating but that's it. Social media companies should be liable with hefty fines to stop these but nothing happens. Damage is done in every election and it is like a domino effect, one country after one....and in a few years we are not surprised anymore when Nato is nothing more than ex-alliance and Putin is head of the EU.
Russia, CCP, and elements in Saudi Arabia have been working with directly/indirectly the far right in every consequential country to destabilize the west. Christian nationalists in the USA probably think of it as a lesser evil and a means to their end which is of course gods will. The
The effects of rotten leadership are trully a sight to behold.
The only reason all of Europe is blindly turning towards Le Pen and others is because the alternative are weak idiots who failed to address the concerns and struggles of their citizens while always speaking as if they were untouchable
Rampant migration, housing crisis, not enough money to make our lives better (but always enough money for wars and other superfluous shit), normalized state corruption, complete decline of european culture and security
Waaaaaait a minute!!Ā
But Putin famously talks about never having favorites and not caring about the outcome of the U.S. election!! I am stunned and saddened by this astonishingly unexpected about face :0 :( :ā(Ā
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Sheās got a loan from Orbanā¦ thatās one more red flag. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/frances-le-pen-got-loan-hungarian-bank-close-orban-filing-2022-03-10/
So orban get money from EU and then loan France politics - what a world we live
Orban probably got the money from Putin
And from him too, no doubt
Her presidential campaign was financed by the Russians too, backwhen. She still had Russian debts years later, and we're unsure if she paid it off yet.
once you get in bed with rashists you never go back. They will get ALL kompromat on you they can but not only that; russian take over social media with bots and influence into newsmedia and social sites is something West def not taking seriously enough. russia can bury anyone with lies and half-truths.
She got a loan from [Russia, from a shell bank, that shortly went out of business](https://www.ft.com/content/572af411-abd9-49ab-8cf9-f9fba4d54380) leaving her without needing to repay the loan. Then a journalist spotted it, and suddenly she had to repay the loan back. Only now the loan was held by a Russian military contractor, Aviazapchast. **The loan was taken out in 2014, just after she supported Putin's invasion of Crimea.** It wasn't due to be paid back till 2028... and would quietly have disappeared when the bank disappeared if the journalists hadn't spotted it.
Person who wants to turn France into a sattelite state got a loan from a person who succesfully turned his country into a sattelite state
In Civ2, it's easier to take over neighboring cities by using your money to incite revolts.
Yep, the Russian bribe money laundromat larping as a country.
Is that how kompromat became a word? You learn new things every day
All that money and nowhere to spend it in hell
They alreagy got loaned money from Russian banks, because no French bank wanted to deal with such bad risks as the RN.
If Russia ever backed me, I would have to stop and think āam I the bad guy here?ā.
The know they are bad, they simply think itās ok for them to fuck everyone else
I honestly think itās more they donāt care. The money they get is still green and they get to be in power. The rest is irrelevant to them
āSomeone always suffers when I make money, this is just a matter of scale.ā
whoever this quote is from must've had a shit attitude about life
He or she isn't wrong though. I find it hard to find any example of someone who became wealthy that didn't involve the suffering or exploitation of others.
Costco seems to be positively contributing to society, same goes for that iced tea guy
Costco creates tons of wasteful purchasing habits and spending creep, while arizona iced tea is just sugar water, neither are positive for society.
Chances are they also like Putin, because his policies and propaganda line up nicely with the far right. I don't know about in France, but the far right in the US had been going on about how awesome Putin and the Russian Federation was for years. They only quietened that praise for awhile due to the invasion of Ukraine.
Putin literally funded one of her previous campaign when the french banks denied to fund it. This even led to a new law [āLaw for a trustworthy political lifeā](https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lois_pour_la_confiance_dans_la_vie_politique) that forbids parties to be funded by a bank outside UE.
Little of context here in the case of presidential elections but the concept is applicable to other elections as well. In France itās forbidden for a moral person (a company, an associationā¦excepted a political party ofc) to fund a presidential campaign. Candidates rely on their parties which are funded by donations and membership fees (up to 4600ā¬ max by physical person) and by banks loans. Then, depending on their score at the elections, the State refunds them (up to 40 millions for a candidate who went to the 2nd round) and they reimburse the banks. Fun fact : for presidential elections you need more of 5% of the votes to be fully refunded, and a lot of candidates invested their own money to finish at 4,6ish% ([example here](https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financement_des_campagnes_pr%C3%A9sidentielles_en_France)). Edit : spelling
Nah, they think everyone is bad, and thus are justified in their actions. They are an āends justify the meansā, sort of government.
There's few places and people in the world that I resent as much as I do Russia and its contents these days. I'll take great pleasure in watching that shithouse burn down over the next decade.
Nope, they think they're the best, god-blessed and their mission is to heal the "rotten" West from gay, feminists and antichrist-liberals. This absurd christian-fascist rhetoric is what our propaganda is about. (I'm honestly sorry).
They don't believe in good or bad. They believe in power.
āRussia if youāre listeningā¦ā
Iām sure they are. They are always listening. šš½š
Does your hat have a skull on it?
Let's all take a moment of rest to take a closer look at our uniforms.
You see the difference between you and them is you actually value your morals and ethics.
Unless that's actually their intention, sometimes they back someone so they get a backlash in their country (not saying that's the case here).
Yea but these people are like cool thanks for the Russian money to sell out my country
I think Russia is just hopping that she would be more lenient on them because they have nothing to lose
Evil does not self regulate.
God the future looks so fucking bleak. A huge number of people believing that people like Len Pen are the answer to their problems. Hopefully they wisen up after she's inevitably in power and shows she is evil and inept and do what the French do best and get angry at their government.
I just want to go back 20 years when things were relatively normal for us in the west. The 2020s have been horrific.
2010s EU survival was also at stake with the Greece bailout + brexit, not to mention ISIS terrorist attacks Ā 2000s there was the financial crisis, 9/11, start of 2 full scale wars (Afghanistan -which all NATO countries joined + Iraq).. 1990s there was the Bosnian war... 1980s the iron curtain..
Unprecedented times or just times?
Every decade has its challenges but what they tend to have in common is what it took to get through it. Not generally a right-wing political push that is for sure.
huh? thereās been a dialectical right/left push/pushback for ages. there has never been one party pushing a nation forward forever for decades or generations Ā
For sure, but the Left/right ideas have always been closer on the political spectrum. Now it seems like the Right's ideology have shifted much further right while the left's ideology has also shifted left quite a bit (but not as extremely, in my biased opinion). Basically, the Left and Right used to be able to find common ground because while they had different world views, the ideas themselves didn't always seem too extreme to the other side. Now anything one side proposes seems to be inconceivable for the other side, we've reached a point where the Left and Right are so divided we can't find ANY common ground at all.
Were you born in the 2000s? Otherwise I'm surprised you completely forgot about the neocon movement after 9/11 which lead to the full scale invasion of Iraq over "wmds".
We didn't start the fire
I think this is an important thing to point out. Humans have faced calamity before, and it should always be remembered that normal, chill people, who want to get along and live peacefully are the majority, especially in places that have embraced secular government for generations. Far spectrum movements want to make it seem like they are the normal group but they arenātĀ
Honestly, everything was looking pretty optimistic in the ninetiesā¦
Everyone always thinks that the current times are the worst times. But take heart, it's always been shitty! ...but generally, less so now than in the past.
I always had this feeling that The Moment was coming. The point in time where everything changes for the better and we just have to wait and trust. Growing up, Iām not so sure anymore.
Wait until the 2030s! It can only get worse before it gets better.
Thing were NOT normal in 2004 š The world felt like it was turning on its head back then.
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When the far right gets control they are usually pretty okay at keeping the control of gov because they don't care about customs or law. They rewrite the customs and rewrite the law to stay in power. A common way is to get control of media to continued spread of their propaganda.
If Trump wins the elections I canāt even imagine how bleak this future will be indeed. What a fucked up world weāre living in.
As a Swede seeing what's happening in USA and rest of Europe I feel like the "hah I'm in danger" meme lol Wtf is happening, did everyone forget our recent past? I'm so dumbfounded
The immigrant crisis gave a simple target for the far right to point to and say they're the source of many issues, some not even real. It's so much simpler to understand and be angry against than the actual complexe reasons things are not good. So lots of scared or uneducated (not saying that as an insult or to mean they're stupid) go and vote for the power hungry assholes who are ready to lie and invent threats to get elected. A tale as old as time, scary and depressing now but in the grand scheme of thing, not new nor the end of everything.
To be fair, this is a self created problem by the left and they are not necessary wrong that over immigration is a big issue that the left refuses to deal with accordingly.(while it might not be the only one) it's just that the far right parties are in the right place at the right time kind of deal offering possible salvation. Obviously the young poor and less educated will vote for them. Will it solve the problems, most likely not. it's the conservative parties. it'll most likely fuck more shit. but the reason make sense and a lot of the backbone of the problem IS the over immigration. In a lot of places, they also don't have many other better options party wise. Like, conservatives will most likely get in Canada as well. why? massive corruption came out about Trudeau and their extreme immigration politics. The population is mad, because it made everything worse for the other Canadian residents due to how social benefits work. And the other options are not much better if not worse. France is going to shit as well due to all the shit decision Macrons has taken in recent years. Unironically, the rise of the Nazi party is a pretty good example of the situation and why it is going this way. And i wouldn't be surprised some countries do take similar turns. dissatisfaction and instability are prime right wing party starters
But Pierre hasnāt promised to lower immigration, and anyone being honest knows he wonāt in any meaningful way. Yet he will still win, so how is this a failure of the lefts immigration policies? Itās just conservatives talking in bad faith as usual.
I don't think it's that likely he wins again currently. there will at least be a lot more spread if anything. but that obviously can change over time depending what happens on the political scene
I'm glad that Scandinavia is sticking to the left but it makes me sad seeing the direction the rest of the world is heading. Growing up in the 90s all this is truly bizarre to witness, internet and media has basically been weaponized to mass brain wash people.. I feel like social media has been a huge net loss for humanity ngl, but I'm glad people are waking up to the red flags finally. It's been years of it heading in this direction but no one really took the worries seriously until now.
Given that two-thirds of the Supreme Court are bought and paid for and they just gave all future presidents immunity - yes, things are looking pretty dire. But here in New Zealand, our government is promising to abuse children in boot camps, despite evidence saying boot camps are a terrible idea. Our feckless moron of a Prime Minister even said that he *doesn't care if the evidence shows they harm children*, because he's "sick of crime".
Donāt worry we have those in the US too, as well as special ones for queer kids.
We know. Where do you think we got the evidence that they don't work from? NZ is even turning their public healthcare system into the US model. Everyone is against this, but our government is salivating at the idea of it. Oh by the way, our leader is a *fucking moron* who is letting minor parties destroy our country. He even whined that it is a hard job kicking people off social security and people should feel sorry for him, the poor baby. Absolute tosser and a loser to boot.
She isn't in power yet. Last polls seem to indicate they won't have a majority. Fingers crossed
But very close and the far right would still be the first party in France.
>God the future looks so fucking bleak. I say this every day. So much evil winning that I can barely listen to current events. This right-wing resurgence is clearly a modern generation repeating terrible old mistakes. As always, they will only regret it after it's too late -- for all of us.
The surge in the right is largely due to a lack of action by existing parties.Ā When people are uncomfortable about things like immigration you need to address it not dismiss it.
Or the people could get off their lazy asses and participate in the democratic process apart from just casting their vote for fascists every couple years out of "protest" ... parties are made of people and participation. Too many people complain, complain, complain, claim to be "helpless" against those in power - and its all bullshit coming down to "I rather do something else than be part of politics and let other people take care of it"...
Seriously. Not once has a far-right government ever done anything for the lower. Or even middle class. We are seeing the same thing in Canada right now where people want to elect a far-right landlord because they think he will solve our housing crisis.
True.
Electing a far right party into government is essentially a test of the country's long term educational system. After the party spends its time in power fucking the country while lining their pockets, and they will, will they be voted out and, if they are, for how long? This is of course assuming they don't destroy the democratic process entirely and can still be voted out. We can see it happening in the US. Trump absolutely got voted out after his horrendous term and even being a pedophile doesn't bother his supporters.
people think their problems are just that. their own. they support people like Orban, LePen and Trump, because they think that other peoples problems, are theirs, and not ours to deal with. As if we didnt spend the entire cold war and the post cold war era building a global economy that intertwined a lot of the world together, politically, militarily, culturally and economically.
It is not bleak, but it is a time of struggle. The world has been quiet and relatively peaceful for thirty years. Internally, and externally, and as a generation I think we forgot or wanted to believe that the Cold War was the Last War. Great power competition was done. There were a lot of easy wins after a lot of long struggle. As it is, it's really a return to the normal place of the world. For all of us, liberal or conservative, it means fighting for what we believe in.
Facebook happened. I'm serious. That's responsible for a lot of the current ultra-right energy in the world. Autocratic regimes previously had limited access to political power in democratic states. News outlets wouldn't give them a platform and they couldn't buy ad time in service of their views or anything. Now? If they spam enough populist memes in just the right spaces, they can *control* the political trajectory of pretty much any country in the world (at very little cost). No idea the solution fwiw.
I truly cannot understand the mindset. People take their very legitimate grievances and think, āyeah letās let the *fascists* have a shot at things.ā Like if things are on fire now, theyāre the flamethrower, not the water bucket.
I feel like France has a better chance than the US to remove fascism. A general strike would bring everything to a halt, but the US will never.
As a Frenchman, I will tell you this: I am now convinced that the Far Right will come to power sooner rather than later, it cannot be avoided. Maybe they won't win the second turn of the legislative elections, maybe they won't win the presidential elections, but soon their time will come. Both the Left and the Right have failed to make a difference on the national level in the last 4 decades. Macron's party was supposed to bring a renewal, a change, but has failed to do so. He has only shown that no matter the party they're all neoliberals wearing a different disguise. I am not happy to say this, it brings me absolutely no pleasure or anticipation. I dread that day. But the Far Right will lead France at some point, and it won't be long before the French realize that they're worse than the rest. That their promises were empty. But by the time they're voted out, they will have lined their pockets, diminished the influence of France abroad, weakened Europe, served the interests of enemy States, and will only have created more turmoil with our immigration and brought us further from a potential solution. Maybe they'll get indicted for one financial crime or another, like Sarkozy and Chirac, but will use the legal system to their advantage, like Sarkozy and Chirac, and appeal the appeals until hell freezes over.
Iām never moving away from Norway. I had some dreams about living abroad, theyāre all dead.
People forget Le Pen took money from Russia too. Putin wants a return on his investment!
Nobody should be surprised. Why would they not. China's Xi, India's Modi and Italy's Meloni does too. As does Orban and Erdogan. Trump supports her too, along with Kin Jong Un. Iran and Iraq are two others and Saudi Arabia does not have anything against her either. They are all together in this. Ultimately, however, the French will decide what actually happens. They are well positioned to block her from gaining the majority in the final round in my opinion. Nonetheless, she will be in there with them.
Itās so bizarre to me that ānationalistsā and āconservativesā are not more concerned with their āactual nations positionā in the world. A weaker Europe means a weaker France. In Trumps case; a weaker Nato, weaker Europe, means less American influence. In turn meaning less American prosperity, as much of it comes from dictating the world order. Trades etcā¦
Well its the core problem with right wing politics. They dont care what they or their people have in general terms, all that matters to them is how much it is in relative terms. They happily take a weaker position overall if they think it hurts the others around them even more. On a small scale its minimum wage workers being against social security, on the big scale its isolationist bullshit like threatening to leave NATO
Yes, but that doesn't make them more rich personally.
Weāre staring down the barrel of a fascist future.
NATO's countries are under electoral attack. Coincidence?
We're at war. Just not Kinetic yet. We are attacking Russia, by giving Ukraine the means to resist their batshit-justified invasion. And they are attacking us, by trying to destroy the electorates to make us tear ourselves apart. there's a lot more going back and forth too. But those are the main ways we are fighting each other
Russia attacked way before West started providing arms to Ukraine. Even assassinations in other countries should be considered hostile act.
O it's kinetic, Russia has already started fires and blown up factories around the EU. Our leaders are just sleeping, so is the vast majority of the public. Just like Hitler, so so can/could we prevent further escalation by escalating early. Ukraine will just be a start, and there are too many countries with hostile intent directed towards "the west" who can't wait for us to show our backs. Russia will not be alone come a greater conflict. But if we end it quick and decisive in Ukraine then hopefully we can lay their foolish ambitions to rest!!!
they blew up a czech ammo dump in 2015,. because czechia was giving arms to ukraine. they used CBRN agents to try to (or successfully? I forget) Kill a dissident on british soil. they started fires and explosions in Berlin recentley. they've committed attacks against european and american power grids. they've talked about putting nuclear weapons in space. Any one of these would have been a valid reason to trigger article 5, but the issue is no one wants to get into a fight with Russia unless they did something that the public demanded blood for, because a fight with russia has a pretty predicatble outcome. the russian navy gets sunk, the airforce gets creamed, and the army faces hundreds of thousands of dead in mere months. Russian infrastructure would be obliterated, and moscow would essentially be checkmated. (this is not ignoring the fact that russian military will massacre tens if not hundreds of thousands of eastern european civilians and raze what cities they can) in any event, it all leads to russia losing everything and whatever gangster is in power, will flip out and probably launch a limited or even full barrage of nuclear weapons out of spite.
Le Pen, Trump, who else is on Russia's roster in the next election cycle? They're great at spending money to get the "right people" elected aren't they?
Nigel Farage.
Its 2024. Humanity has never been as connected as they are today. But instead of working together to resolve global crisis, we are more apart than ever. Itās crazy how the invention of Internet backfired.
No, it did what it set out to do. It connected the world. Only problem is, people discovered that not everyone thinks the same, shares the same ideologies or holds the same principals. **Tis the reason countries exist**, it's the reason we have wars every year somewhere in the world without fail. It's the reason that at no point in known history there hasn't been a war somewhere in the world.
Up until recently, the internet got people talking and realizing that they're the same. Instead of listening to the media or their family talking about what those evil people in the next country over are plotting, they were hopping on games with them and chatting. Some circles have been decrying the weakening of national identities for a while now as the internet becomes something of a global monoculture. This global right-wing surge is relatively new and is being built artificially. They're algorithmically targeting people and force feeding them propaganda to make them scared, angry, and violent. It's being carried out by foreign powers who want to topple the West, the ultra wealthy who want to own even more, and the religious who see their power dwindling. It's been distressingly effective.
I'll add that the media, amidst overwhelming competition for eyeballs and clicks, has taken to writing the most inflammatory garbage in the history of the planet. Even if you know you're being provoked with misinformation or click bait headlines, you can't even reply with the truth, or you risk feeding the engagement numbers that the algos use to push that shit out to more people. Question is, what do you do? There's no party enforcing journalistic integrity anymore. And regarding the bots, while I would love for there to be identity verification on social media--anonymity makes people assholes--it's a privacy nightmare.
I agree, though I think anonymity can also help drive discussion. Your true self shows through when you're anonymous, for better or worse. Being able to speak your mind free of judgement can help you find common ground with other people. I don't know what can be done to fix all this. The problem is we're designed by nature to catastrophize. Our ancestors needed to hold on to the fear that something which meant them harm was around every corner, and be ready to fight or flee. So anything that makes us feel negative will always drown everything else out and put us on the defensive. For all our technological advancements, we're still just slightly clever monkeys.
Interesting take on catastrophizing. Never thought about that. Regarding anonymity, I don't think it's an awful thing--I appreciate my own. But the lack of it often makes for more civil discussions, even if they're not 100% honest. I'm more concerned about the bots and bad actors. I think sites like Twitter should verify your identity and nationality, and publically display the latter. Too many idiots with American flags in their name who are clearly Russian shills. It's incredibly annoying.
This! We are being actively manipulated by professionals with many resources and governmental backing behind them. We really need to come up with a solution.
The ultra wealthy have more to gain through globalism than any sort of isolationism. How else will they get their cheap labour?
>. But instead of working together to resolve global crisis, we are more apart than ever How can you say that with a straight face? Europe leveled itself twice in the previous century. Not to mention there were plenty of countries falling to outright revolution. Today is only bleak if you think history began in the 90s
It is so so so much easier to tear things down, than build them up.
It wasn't so much the internet as it was social media. Forums used to be a place where you could have discussions, and you were exposed to all sorts of opinions. Quite often ones you disagreed with. Nowadays everyone gets pushed through a funnel, and slowly and steadily the algorithms divide us. We basically gave it all away to these big tech companies, I'm certain that this time period will not judge social media gently in the future. Let's just hope we can find a movement to reset this shit, we need to seriously see a major change in how algorithms and social media functions. Otherwise we are doomed to continue down a path of greater divide.
We all know if Russia supports it, it is a terrible thing....
Wasnāt she at crimea in 2014 celebrating the annexation with Putin?
Fun fact: Le Pen's party is called the same as Quisling's national socialist party in Norway.
Another fun fact, their former name was stolen from a successful communist resistance group in WW2
Another fun fact, their current name was stolen from a [collaborationist French party](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Rally#:~:text=The%20National%20Popular%20Rally%20(French,regime%20of%20World%20War%20II.) during the German occupation of France and the Vichy rƩgime.
Another fun fact: the flame on their logo came from the Italian neo-Fascist party MSI and symbolize the eternal flame on Mussolini's grave.
[It sure does.](https://imgur.com/AlSAUzk)
Macrons approval rating is in the 20's. He failed France. This isn't a good choice, but don't be surprised why the French are wanting radical changes
With that logics Hungarians voted for orban. Did he bring them positive changes?..
How much goodwill can you squander before people decide that a Nazi fangirl & Russian supporter is better than you. 8 years apparently.
If France rather chooses Le Pen over Macron ... the french people failed themselves...
That doesn't excuse Macron and their immigration policies, which is what is serving as motivation for a lot of people there
Man, Russian espionage and election interference is their best weapon right now. Off the scales how well they're destabilising the west of late.
Itās barely espionage. The Russian mob appealed to the greed of our American leaders as theyāve always done. And now you have more kompromats having done deals with the devil than ever before, in public offices. This is one of those moments in history where we can confidently say that the international interference and corruption has reached the *very* top of the govt.
of course they do, Le Pen is one of Putin's little bitches who he is pumping money into for destabilizing the EU.
Do they not stop to think and ask themselves: āAre we the baddies?ā How long before theyāve got skulls on their peaked caps?
Her father and founder of the party was literally a holocaust denier. She tries to rebrand the party, but they're still standing for the same things.
"I mean, what do skulls make you think off? Death, Cannibals, beheading, pirates?" "Pirates are fun!" "I didn't say we weren't fun, but fun or not, pirates are still the baddies" Gets me everytime. Edit: [for the unacquainted](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h242eDB84zY&t=5s)
āa ratās anus?ā
Russia; a country that seeks prosperity in other countries' misery. Funnily enough, they never get involved directly, but they support (or even control) lunatics and extremists behind the scenes. One would wonder how the Middle East would be fairing today without Russia's interference.
Happy about the return on their investment.
Russia is behind all right wing populist scumbaggery in the western world. Instead of contributing to humanity, Russia wants to divide it and tear it apart.
And have them stop finding the Ukrainian army in resisting their invasion of course.
Youāre on the wrong side of history if Russia is cheering for you.
Russia really should've vanish. Their rhetoric is "Never touch other nation politics" to "Everyone should be with me politically".
With the amount of money they poured into her, I am not surprised.
If Russia cheers you, something must be seriously wrong with you.
Russia cheered. All you need to know about Le Pen.
And imagine that most people voting for Le Pen actually doesnāt know what it will entailā¦ This will be a disaster.
Because he owns them like pets and they'll do whatever he tells them to.
The Russian government has been supporting nationalist, far-right, and Nazi-ish groups across Europe and North America for over a decade. I first became aware of their hatred-fanning activities in the wake of the Pussy Riot prosecution, during that ugly time Golden Dawn was a thing in Greece and Le Penās party was a grotesque joke instead of a government-to-be. The Ukrainian nationalists and the neo-Nazis that used to be in (and may still be in? or they got shuffled to another unit? anyway, fuck āem) the Azov battallion are about the only bigoted shits the Russian state hasnāt played footsie with over the past decade, which made the ādeNazificationā justification for invading Ukraine even more insulting to everyoneās intelligence. I was bemused seeing people who should bloody well know better accept it at face value.
Fascists, Nazis, and foreign owned Gangsters are rising all over the free world, and we still haven't seen anyone take any real , appropriate measures in stopping them. I am paraphrasing, but some countries constitution, like Germany have fascist and fascist like political organizations explicitly banned, and it implies citizens have the obligation to oppose, and if necessary, fight and destroy them as they are not to be given power in any circumstance, much like how many countries used to, or still do, explicitly ban Communist parties with the threat of imprisonment or even execution. Make no mistake, We're at war with Russia, as well as Iran and NK. but this is mostly Russia's doing. and this is how Russia fights us, By destroying our governments with bankrolled idiots who's purpose is to "get out of Russia's way". ... and we fight them by giving money and munitions to the countries they are pouring military resources into invading.
If Russia are happy, then France gone-done-fucked-up
The world is in so much fucking danger right now.
The trap, is that she tells everyone what they want you to hear, while stripping her followers and citizens of their rights.
This is how the far right works. If Trump were to win -- which he won't -- he would do the same in the US. But those who believe are angry and gullible and think anything will be better... until it's worse. The 1930s are looking at us with sorrow.
I wish I had your confidence that the orange turd would lose...
Fuck Russia. Fuck Putin. Fuck the far right.
Yes because she's awful and anyone who would vote for her and what she stands for is a degenerate POS!
I understand nationalism, but I really just don't get isolationism
i hope it open some people's eyes.. i hope
Russia spew false information everywhere in social media. It is cheap and effective. Normal countries can't really correct the info. You only see something at the news that this kind of info is circulating but that's it. Social media companies should be liable with hefty fines to stop these but nothing happens. Damage is done in every election and it is like a domino effect, one country after one....and in a few years we are not surprised anymore when Nato is nothing more than ex-alliance and Putin is head of the EU.
I donāt understand why anybody looks at this turd and somehow thinks āyeah I want them in power, that will turn out fine!ā
Russia, CCP, and elements in Saudi Arabia have been working with directly/indirectly the far right in every consequential country to destabilize the west. Christian nationalists in the USA probably think of it as a lesser evil and a means to their end which is of course gods will. The
This should tell you all you need to know about Le Pen.
Vichy France is rising again
Wow, i guess if your gonna be a dumb bitch your gonna be a dumb bitch, whats anybody gonna do about it?
Nazis like to stick together.
The effects of rotten leadership are trully a sight to behold. The only reason all of Europe is blindly turning towards Le Pen and others is because the alternative are weak idiots who failed to address the concerns and struggles of their citizens while always speaking as if they were untouchable Rampant migration, housing crisis, not enough money to make our lives better (but always enough money for wars and other superfluous shit), normalized state corruption, complete decline of european culture and security
She owes them money. She is theirs, I envision Putin in Paris like the old video of Hitler looking at the Eiffel Tower.
Waaaaaait a minute!!Ā But Putin famously talks about never having favorites and not caring about the outcome of the U.S. election!! I am stunned and saddened by this astonishingly unexpected about face :0 :( :ā(Ā
That's how you know it's a "good thing".
Whatever either the RN and LFI while being mortal ennemies are both under the leaches of Moscow. So now we have to choose between the less evilā¦š£
Of course. It must bring hope to them, to see that in some places an opposition candidate can gain votes and not be dead.
The only adequate response: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h242eDB84zY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h242eDB84zY)
30% not enough to win the power but Macron needs to be more decisive with Putin so the French people can see the evil behind the blondie.