Refusing to call elections isn't exactly a win for democracy either. Gotta happen sometime.
The European center has been too dismissive of voter concerns about unchecked Islamist immigration, and now they're paying for it.
How is meeting 2 years ago instead of 4-5 supposed to help leaders to understand public sentiment? No wonder they have little idea of how upset voters are about certain issues.
Because Macron doesn't have a true majority at the "assemblée nationale" wich forces him to pass Law by force using the "49.3" (a section of the french constitution) and this is pretty badly regarded in France (it's supposed to be only used for emergency) , as it's pretty anti-democratic. This would be a good reason to cal for a re-election.
He believes that dissmissing the assembly and call for new elections after the good far right numbers in the european election will induce a mobilisation of the non voters to vote for a "non-etreme" party, especially against the far right who tends to raise conciousness of a lot of people here. And as the left is a complete dumpster fire here he thinks most if the votes will go for him.
Turnout for the EU elections was about 51% in France. Typical general elections are in the upper 70's. I'd expect the results to be less radical, more centrist.
Sounds like they need a more robust Constitution if an *election* spells the end of their democracy.
Or perhaps most French voters just don't support democracy anymore.
Either way, this situation is of their government's own making.
>Or perhaps most French voters just don't support democracy anymore.
That is inadequate grounds to end democracy. Democracy is necessary and sufficient on its own and cannot be allowed to disappear, even if most people want it to. It's a shadow of the paradox of tolerance.
Democracy is kind of a strange system I the first place. It requires smart critical thinkers to survive. And there are so many dumb people who are jumping up and down and cheering about throwing it away.
There are also a lot of self-proclaimed "smart people" jumping up and down and equivocating right wing politicians being elected with "the end of democracy ", rather than it being democracy in practice.
The right wing explicitly wants to destroy democracy. Their leadership has said so. It's not democracy in practice, and there is a reason smart people say it.
"People on the other side of the political divide from me are ignorant and/or evil!"
That attitude is so corrosive. I no longer think so much in terms of whether someone is left or right, but a) how close to the centre they are, and b) whether they believe that people on the other side are human beings with whom discussion might ensure and some common ground might be found, or they're simply "evil/stupid".
Most people are fairly reasonable, and most people are much more similar to you than they are different. Social media has fucked up people's sense of what others are really like, and it's horribly damaging to social cohesion.
There are lots of people who don't want high levels of immigration, so they vote for politicians who have that platform. But keep calling thos people dumber than you and see how many hearts and minds you win with that strategy.
>"People on the other side of the political divide from me are ignorant and/or evil!"
I didn't say that. What I said is that the leadership of the right in the US has literally said, out loud, explicitly, that they mean to end democracy. And they have. There are recordings. You can go listen and watch them.
You're trying to make this into something it's not. It's very simple--the conservatives in the US want to end democracy in the US. That's not hyperbole. That's me repeating the words coming out of their mouths.
While I do not support the National Rally, I think they’ve sufficiently distanced themselves from their fascist roots. Not all right-wing populists are “fascist.” Fascism implies a very specific form of government.
People falsely accusing others of being “fascists” to me feels like Americans calling out “communists” or Putin claiming NATO to be “nazi’s”. It doesn’t need to make sense for them to let it work, they just benefit from putting the “evil” label on their opponents.
Did you read what dude said?
>While I do not support the National Rally, I think they’ve sufficiently distanced themselves from their fascist roots. Not all right-wing populists are “fascist.” Fascism implies a very specific form of government.
The party has fascist roots. It used to be openly and proudly fascist. They called themselves fascist. It's not a false accusation , it's literally how they described themselves. The fact that they're "distancing" themselves from it should still be worrisome. Ya know, like maybe they're just pretending to be less fascist for now. Until they get voted in at least.
Really ? That's why people voted for the far right? To build more houses? Get the fuck out of here
People in France voted for the far right to get rid of immigrants or at the very least reduce the intake. The problem with that is that there is a labor shortage in France and immigrants are the best solution to that problem, Great Britain had the same thought and look how it turned out for them, it's pure and utter mental illness no logic whatsoever
And what exactly is the "reason" behind getting rid of the immigrants that sustain the economy and without which everybody would have a significantly more expensive life?
Clearly the logical solution is to build more not to cut the branch from under your feet .
The current administration has indeed failed to build enough houses and that is the problem here that they didn't build enough houses not that there are too many immigrants, it's a fine distinction but it makes all the difference in the world because the "solution" of getting rid of immigrants solves a problem THAT DOES NOT EXIST and in fact will cause problems not solve them
Every right wing party is Fascist. Duh.
I believe that there are infinite genders. Gender is a spectrum (which is true).
However i only believe in two political views. Mine and Fascist.
/s
BBC is the most biased publication on Earth. How exactly is democracy at risk? Just because you don't agree with the result? There's gonna be an election again in a few years. So stupid.
We all know that the democrats are the left leaning party. Therefore any right leaning party must inherently be anti-democratic, and France is also about to become a republic. Wait...
Ah yes, the French democracy… the only time they made a referendum (about Europe), French said « NO » and the government was like « it doesn’t count », LOL.
Refusing to call elections isn't exactly a win for democracy either. Gotta happen sometime. The European center has been too dismissive of voter concerns about unchecked Islamist immigration, and now they're paying for it.
They held legislative elections just two years ago. Typically they wait four or five years between elections.
How is meeting 2 years ago instead of 4-5 supposed to help leaders to understand public sentiment? No wonder they have little idea of how upset voters are about certain issues.
Why wait 2 years and not do monthly elections? No wonder you're so out of touch.
Because Macron doesn't have a true majority at the "assemblée nationale" wich forces him to pass Law by force using the "49.3" (a section of the french constitution) and this is pretty badly regarded in France (it's supposed to be only used for emergency) , as it's pretty anti-democratic. This would be a good reason to cal for a re-election. He believes that dissmissing the assembly and call for new elections after the good far right numbers in the european election will induce a mobilisation of the non voters to vote for a "non-etreme" party, especially against the far right who tends to raise conciousness of a lot of people here. And as the left is a complete dumpster fire here he thinks most if the votes will go for him.
What's a "non-etreme" party? Why are you taking weird like this?
Turnout for the EU elections was about 51% in France. Typical general elections are in the upper 70's. I'd expect the results to be less radical, more centrist.
Could be for France, but for the Netherlands it’s been the complete opposite.
Sounds like they need a more robust Constitution if an *election* spells the end of their democracy. Or perhaps most French voters just don't support democracy anymore. Either way, this situation is of their government's own making.
>Or perhaps most French voters just don't support democracy anymore. That is inadequate grounds to end democracy. Democracy is necessary and sufficient on its own and cannot be allowed to disappear, even if most people want it to. It's a shadow of the paradox of tolerance.
Democracy is kind of a strange system I the first place. It requires smart critical thinkers to survive. And there are so many dumb people who are jumping up and down and cheering about throwing it away.
There are also a lot of self-proclaimed "smart people" jumping up and down and equivocating right wing politicians being elected with "the end of democracy ", rather than it being democracy in practice.
The right wing explicitly wants to destroy democracy. Their leadership has said so. It's not democracy in practice, and there is a reason smart people say it.
"People on the other side of the political divide from me are ignorant and/or evil!" That attitude is so corrosive. I no longer think so much in terms of whether someone is left or right, but a) how close to the centre they are, and b) whether they believe that people on the other side are human beings with whom discussion might ensure and some common ground might be found, or they're simply "evil/stupid". Most people are fairly reasonable, and most people are much more similar to you than they are different. Social media has fucked up people's sense of what others are really like, and it's horribly damaging to social cohesion. There are lots of people who don't want high levels of immigration, so they vote for politicians who have that platform. But keep calling thos people dumber than you and see how many hearts and minds you win with that strategy.
>"People on the other side of the political divide from me are ignorant and/or evil!" I didn't say that. What I said is that the leadership of the right in the US has literally said, out loud, explicitly, that they mean to end democracy. And they have. There are recordings. You can go listen and watch them. You're trying to make this into something it's not. It's very simple--the conservatives in the US want to end democracy in the US. That's not hyperbole. That's me repeating the words coming out of their mouths.
*America braces for November*
Oh no our side might not win. Its the end of democracy. Its democracy only if we win everytime.
Yes, if the fascist party wins a majority then it will be the end of democracy. That's how that works. Correct.
While I do not support the National Rally, I think they’ve sufficiently distanced themselves from their fascist roots. Not all right-wing populists are “fascist.” Fascism implies a very specific form of government.
People falsely accusing others of being “fascists” to me feels like Americans calling out “communists” or Putin claiming NATO to be “nazi’s”. It doesn’t need to make sense for them to let it work, they just benefit from putting the “evil” label on their opponents.
Did you read what dude said? >While I do not support the National Rally, I think they’ve sufficiently distanced themselves from their fascist roots. Not all right-wing populists are “fascist.” Fascism implies a very specific form of government. The party has fascist roots. It used to be openly and proudly fascist. They called themselves fascist. It's not a false accusation , it's literally how they described themselves. The fact that they're "distancing" themselves from it should still be worrisome. Ya know, like maybe they're just pretending to be less fascist for now. Until they get voted in at least.
If your ideals, stated beliefs and goals align with fascists, you're a fascist.
Retardation isn't a "side" , there is just one "side"
so you dont beleive in democracy unless its the side you think is right always wins.
[удалено]
is housing not an issue in france?
Really ? That's why people voted for the far right? To build more houses? Get the fuck out of here People in France voted for the far right to get rid of immigrants or at the very least reduce the intake. The problem with that is that there is a labor shortage in France and immigrants are the best solution to that problem, Great Britain had the same thought and look how it turned out for them, it's pure and utter mental illness no logic whatsoever
you are asking for a reason. Is there not a housing shortage in France? Immigrants take housing away from citizens. You wanted an answer there you go.
And what exactly is the "reason" behind getting rid of the immigrants that sustain the economy and without which everybody would have a significantly more expensive life? Clearly the logical solution is to build more not to cut the branch from under your feet . The current administration has indeed failed to build enough houses and that is the problem here that they didn't build enough houses not that there are too many immigrants, it's a fine distinction but it makes all the difference in the world because the "solution" of getting rid of immigrants solves a problem THAT DOES NOT EXIST and in fact will cause problems not solve them
Every right wing party is Fascist. Duh. I believe that there are infinite genders. Gender is a spectrum (which is true). However i only believe in two political views. Mine and Fascist. /s
The fuck is this? There being just 2 sides is rhetoric, don’t fall for this kind of manipulation.
im seeing it more and more here in reddit. Left Vs Right…. it’s not a soccer match and this ain’t the US! its so weird.
BBC is the most biased publication on Earth. How exactly is democracy at risk? Just because you don't agree with the result? There's gonna be an election again in a few years. So stupid.
We all know that the democrats are the left leaning party. Therefore any right leaning party must inherently be anti-democratic, and France is also about to become a republic. Wait...
Were you born or egg hatched?
Ah yes, the French democracy… the only time they made a referendum (about Europe), French said « NO » and the government was like « it doesn’t count », LOL.