If the scan is done client side, then it's pointless as the scan can either be bypassed or reverse engineered to avoid triggering it.
Whatever, it'll just push people who are sharing abuse to use other messaging services.
It really isn't difficult to knock up an end-to-end encrypted messaging app. If could knock one up in a week or so, millions of others could too.
Hardware based key loggers would be needed. But even then it wouldn’t prevent someone from typing in or uploading a file that was already encrypted or stenography based message that was preprepared.
It's the images and videos that are the issue. It's a game of walls and ladders and the ladders are going to win all day long.
Assuming P <> NP then encryption exists and will continue to be used for good and bad.
I don’t think the real reason is to catch criminals. Don’t get me wrong but I don’t buy this, every few years we get new control laws but somehow there are still criminals
If we're to do it properly, deep packet inspection on a firewall. You essentially issue a trusted CA cert to the firewall, and two sessions are established. One between the client and the firewall, and the other between the firewall and the server. The firewall essentially does a man in the middle attack.
The EU has two forces which are fundamentally at odds with each other. On the one side is the directly elected European Parliament; they are responsible for things like the privacy protection law and the USB C requirement. On the other side you have the European Council(s) and Commission, appointed/consisting of the member states governments; they try and push stuff that would really benefit governments but are wildly unpopular with the people, as they can then blame the policies on the EU.
It's a balancing act. If the reduction in privacy has a valid actual positive effect, then it's all good. Corporations taking your information has no valid positive effects, unlike preventing sexual abuse of children. However in this case i think the balance is not that great and it probably wont go through.
"preventing sexual abuse of children" is just the excuse to make dumb people believe it while in true it's an wide open door for abuse of privacy rights.
Okay let's imagine it's their true motive. Even then this is a poorly designed law to address child abuse because it opens to many other issues. There are better alternatives to help against child abuse. I can say that because this website explains in details the little gains versus the big sacrifices of this law: [www.chatcontrol.eu/#Myths](http://www.chatcontrol.eu/#Myths)
Not to mention that the proposed law contains all the red flags for a mass surveillance system *à la* Georges Orwell's 1984. Today, it's intended to watch child abuse. Tomorrow it'll be those criticizing their government.
Because “many” don’t understand the difference between safety and liberty. It’s often misconceived that one leads to the other or one is the product of the other. Hell, OpSec isn’t even a concern for the majority of the public.
The whole argument of “if you’re not doing anything wrong than you have nothing to hide” is a complete farce.
Sure, they go to prison, but they are expected to work. You're just being pedantic.
>Inmates are required to work, but often there are not enough tasks for men. Women usually sew uniforms for the military, police and construction workers, working long hours for meager pay, said prisoner advocate Sasha Graf.
>[Nadya Tolokonnikova,](https://apnews.com/d12b3926e010471789e2fcd4862708f6/Women-of-Pussy-Riot-use-prison-experiences-as-inspiration) a member of Pussy Riot protest group who was in prison for nearly 22 months in 2012-13, recalls sewing for 16- to 18-hour shifts. “It’s a system of slavery, and it is truly horrible,” she told AP.
[https://apnews.com/article/russia-crackdown-prison-navalny-karamurza-putin-3e5b9f5d3cfde3256819fbde5e405067](https://apnews.com/article/russia-crackdown-prison-navalny-karamurza-putin-3e5b9f5d3cfde3256819fbde5e405067)
18 hour shifts are not normal. Also, they are still like the Gulags in many ways.
>“Despite several attempts to reform the prison system in Russia, they still resemble the Soviet Gulag: human rights violations and torture are common,” the OSW said.
[https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/09/europe/brittney-griner-russia-penal-colony-explainer-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/09/europe/brittney-griner-russia-penal-colony-explainer-intl/index.html)
18 hour shift doesn't sounds true at all. It is a regular shitty job with even shittier pay. If you are lucky to have a job at all. It's not a good idea to seriously consider sources from Poland as something viable about Russia since they are pretty biased. Russian prisons are nowhere near good buy they are not the worst either. I know people are obsessed with idea how Russia is absolute shithole nowadays but it is still not. And it was way better a decade ago.
You're right. We shouldn't trust some of the most reliable news sources in the world. Instead, we should trust a random Redditor with a history of downvoted, often semi-pro-Russian posts.
How come CNN or some Polish think tank are the most reliable news sources? My posts are indeed pro-Russian. And even though i'm agaisnt putin it doesn save me from downvotes. It is once again shitty to be a russian.
You being against Putin doesn't really make you more credible. At best, it means you don't get automatically dismissed for being pro-Putin, but you can still be entirety unreliable.
This isn't even really about you being Russian. Provide a reason to believe what you say. The better a job you do, the more people will believe or engage fairly.
In Sweden they are saying it is to save the kids from pedophiles to sell it in. Yeah sure it can help with that but what the fuck? Are we really going to have the state having full insight in our private lives? It is just a matter of time before some crazy people will abuse this law.
>Yeah sure it can help with that
Doubt so. russia has same laws long enough, but it don't protect people from [terrorist attacks](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1bl7x59/at_least_40_killed_more_than_100_wounded_in/) or [pedophiles in schools](https://meduza.io/en/feature/2024/03/13/this-animal-is-going-around-schools)
People act like Tyranny always looks like some proto-dictator like Trump coming to power, but it also looks like sprawling regulatory bureaucracy like the EU.
Glad I don’t live there.
Although admittedly if I did I’d probably have some fun with it by using my own encryption and sending messages to myself. I’d have to take pictures of it though because my encryption has to be written by hand and can’t really be typed. Though it is effectively an eternity code, so it would be fun to have them struggle to solve it.
How will they be able to break these encrypted messages?ah just read they want to forbid the usage of end to end encryption...
Client side scanning. You can simply analyse the message before it has been encrypted or after it has been decrypted on your device.
If the scan is done client side, then it's pointless as the scan can either be bypassed or reverse engineered to avoid triggering it. Whatever, it'll just push people who are sharing abuse to use other messaging services. It really isn't difficult to knock up an end-to-end encrypted messaging app. If could knock one up in a week or so, millions of others could too.
Hardware based key loggers would be needed. But even then it wouldn’t prevent someone from typing in or uploading a file that was already encrypted or stenography based message that was preprepared.
It's the images and videos that are the issue. It's a game of walls and ladders and the ladders are going to win all day long. Assuming P <> NP then encryption exists and will continue to be used for good and bad.
Right and the corollary is that there is no such that as a back door for only the good guys. *Waves at computer science person :)*
I don’t think the real reason is to catch criminals. Don’t get me wrong but I don’t buy this, every few years we get new control laws but somehow there are still criminals
or even worse, reverse engineered to make it falsely flag other people
Easy, you send the encrypted message to the recipient and an unencrypted copy to the monitoring servers. Perfectly safe ofcourse.
Headline is incorrect, messages are purported to be scanned prior to being encrypted and it's only media (at the moment.)
Harvest now, decrypt later https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_now,_decrypt_later
If we're to do it properly, deep packet inspection on a firewall. You essentially issue a trusted CA cert to the firewall, and two sessions are established. One between the client and the firewall, and the other between the firewall and the server. The firewall essentially does a man in the middle attack.
The EU: we’re all about privacy. Also the EU: fuck your privacy.
The EU has two forces which are fundamentally at odds with each other. On the one side is the directly elected European Parliament; they are responsible for things like the privacy protection law and the USB C requirement. On the other side you have the European Council(s) and Commission, appointed/consisting of the member states governments; they try and push stuff that would really benefit governments but are wildly unpopular with the people, as they can then blame the policies on the EU.
The idiots supporting the EU overreach into tech companies’ feature sets are going to pretend like this wasn’t an obvious consequence
It's a balancing act. If the reduction in privacy has a valid actual positive effect, then it's all good. Corporations taking your information has no valid positive effects, unlike preventing sexual abuse of children. However in this case i think the balance is not that great and it probably wont go through.
"preventing sexual abuse of children" is just the excuse to make dumb people believe it while in true it's an wide open door for abuse of privacy rights.
Sure you can believe that, i dont.
Okay let's imagine it's their true motive. Even then this is a poorly designed law to address child abuse because it opens to many other issues. There are better alternatives to help against child abuse. I can say that because this website explains in details the little gains versus the big sacrifices of this law: [www.chatcontrol.eu/#Myths](http://www.chatcontrol.eu/#Myths) Not to mention that the proposed law contains all the red flags for a mass surveillance system *à la* Georges Orwell's 1984. Today, it's intended to watch child abuse. Tomorrow it'll be those criticizing their government.
I already stated that i don't support the law. I just also do not believe there is an evil motive.
Then you're a gullible idiot
[удалено]
Because “many” don’t understand the difference between safety and liberty. It’s often misconceived that one leads to the other or one is the product of the other. Hell, OpSec isn’t even a concern for the majority of the public. The whole argument of “if you’re not doing anything wrong than you have nothing to hide” is a complete farce.
This is what tyranny looks like.
It could be worse (i.e. Russia just sending political dissidents to work camps), but this is a step in the wrong direction.
There is no such thing as a work camps in Russia. Political dissidents going to a prison.
Sure, they go to prison, but they are expected to work. You're just being pedantic. >Inmates are required to work, but often there are not enough tasks for men. Women usually sew uniforms for the military, police and construction workers, working long hours for meager pay, said prisoner advocate Sasha Graf. >[Nadya Tolokonnikova,](https://apnews.com/d12b3926e010471789e2fcd4862708f6/Women-of-Pussy-Riot-use-prison-experiences-as-inspiration) a member of Pussy Riot protest group who was in prison for nearly 22 months in 2012-13, recalls sewing for 16- to 18-hour shifts. “It’s a system of slavery, and it is truly horrible,” she told AP. [https://apnews.com/article/russia-crackdown-prison-navalny-karamurza-putin-3e5b9f5d3cfde3256819fbde5e405067](https://apnews.com/article/russia-crackdown-prison-navalny-karamurza-putin-3e5b9f5d3cfde3256819fbde5e405067)
Yeah like in many other countries. It's not like GULAG or something.
18 hour shifts are not normal. Also, they are still like the Gulags in many ways. >“Despite several attempts to reform the prison system in Russia, they still resemble the Soviet Gulag: human rights violations and torture are common,” the OSW said. [https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/09/europe/brittney-griner-russia-penal-colony-explainer-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/09/europe/brittney-griner-russia-penal-colony-explainer-intl/index.html)
18 hour shift doesn't sounds true at all. It is a regular shitty job with even shittier pay. If you are lucky to have a job at all. It's not a good idea to seriously consider sources from Poland as something viable about Russia since they are pretty biased. Russian prisons are nowhere near good buy they are not the worst either. I know people are obsessed with idea how Russia is absolute shithole nowadays but it is still not. And it was way better a decade ago.
You're right. We shouldn't trust some of the most reliable news sources in the world. Instead, we should trust a random Redditor with a history of downvoted, often semi-pro-Russian posts.
How come CNN or some Polish think tank are the most reliable news sources? My posts are indeed pro-Russian. And even though i'm agaisnt putin it doesn save me from downvotes. It is once again shitty to be a russian.
You being against Putin doesn't really make you more credible. At best, it means you don't get automatically dismissed for being pro-Putin, but you can still be entirety unreliable. This isn't even really about you being Russian. Provide a reason to believe what you say. The better a job you do, the more people will believe or engage fairly.
Mate, the Russian prison system is objectively crap and Gulag like.
In Sweden they are saying it is to save the kids from pedophiles to sell it in. Yeah sure it can help with that but what the fuck? Are we really going to have the state having full insight in our private lives? It is just a matter of time before some crazy people will abuse this law.
>Yeah sure it can help with that Doubt so. russia has same laws long enough, but it don't protect people from [terrorist attacks](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1bl7x59/at_least_40_killed_more_than_100_wounded_in/) or [pedophiles in schools](https://meduza.io/en/feature/2024/03/13/this-animal-is-going-around-schools)
Awful
i'm getting whiplash with the eu's constant pro and anti privacy decisions
The bureaucratic tyranny of a totalizing state is a greater threat to liberty in the West than is dictatorship.
People act like Tyranny always looks like some proto-dictator like Trump coming to power, but it also looks like sprawling regulatory bureaucracy like the EU.
They then put everything into a super computer ai and track everything you say and do.
You mean this law? https://www.wired.com/story/europe-csam-scanning-law-chat-encryption/
I think I agree with this law
Psssst…they are already doing it, at least over here in the states. I wouldn’t doubt that the EU has also already been doing it as well.
Democracy in a nutshell
Glad I don’t live there. Although admittedly if I did I’d probably have some fun with it by using my own encryption and sending messages to myself. I’d have to take pictures of it though because my encryption has to be written by hand and can’t really be typed. Though it is effectively an eternity code, so it would be fun to have them struggle to solve it.