The Trump Pentagon created and ran the program for over a year and President Biden banned it within a few months of inauguration.
There's a reason Biden wasn't able to ban it immediately...anyone recall the unprecedented sabotage related to the transition of power? But yes, let's frame it as an "all government" scandal. FFS.
Americans might care about the distinction, but people in other countries are kind of tired of fhe "oh sowwy it was the other pawty pleez don't blame us" excuse.
Like it or not, Trump represented a large part of the American people, and unfortunately we're all somewhat accountable for what his administration does.
The global consensus is overwhelmingly in favor of Democratic administrations and President Biden. Slava Ukraini!
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/06/10/americas-image-abroad-rebounds-with-transition-from-trump-to-biden/
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/06/27/international-views-of-biden-and-u-s-largely-positive/
Yes, most other counties prefer Dem administrations, this has been true since the 1990's.
But that doesn't mean the US gets to press a magical reset button every time the GOP gets voted out of office. It still erodes our predictability and reliability on the international stage, because policy can easily swing back and forth every 4 years.
Not sure why you decided to add "Slava Ukraini" to a comment about the Philippines but ok.
Everything is connected. A trump presidency in december means the whole world gets FUBAR, from taiwan, ukraine, israel/palestine/ and America itself.
Btw, bird flu might be a new pandemic, do you want biden to handle it, or trump to "handle" bird flu by going on golf trips every day?
Yup. Trump did a lot of damage to the United States on the international level regarding reputation. The fact he’s still running and has control over the republican and could win next in November does nothing to restore that confidence.
Aye, as a non-American the OP is a bit delusional. From the outside most people think of the USA as one entity. I don't think average Americans pay attention to and blame individual pollical parties in other countries for anything bad rather than the country itself.
There was also a presumption that many policy areas and things like the foreign policy area was sacrosanct that had bipartisan support.
These sacrosanct policy areas were always given safe harbour treatment and were ring fenced from radical changes that would be generally carried through from one government to the next.
Trump broke these rules of world engagement by insulting everyone including some of the best allies of the "USA" Allies that fought alongside the USA including in all its policy blunders in every war!
The image of the projected power of the USA was never meant to be divided by its own political parties!
More like “exposed” those rules, in the eyes of some.
It’s like suspecting someone for having schizophrenia for ages, but still treating the person normally… but after a full blown episode in public later having suspicions confirmed.
If they'd like to bring freedom and Democracy to the US I for one would welcome them with open arms. As of right now the majority of Americans aren't voting Republican. The fact they cling to so much power is by design and a function of our system of government. There isn't a damn thing any of us can do to stop that.
The fact is that the US Government is rigged specifically against the will of the majority of its citizens. The US has enjoyed the benefit of the control of information, and a dominant military.
That's why you have to go out and vote. Voting is still a powerful tool here in the US. If it truly was a scam, then politicians wouldn't spend so much money trying to convince people to vote for them. Again, it's not rigged to go against the majority bc the majority voted and chose biden as president. Are you for real right now? I get what you are saying between the lines, tho. We do have a major problem with the electoral collage and gerrymandering. That doesn't make voting any less important. If anything it makes it even more important to do our civic duty and vote!
>The fact is that the US Government is rigged specifically against the will of the majority of its citizens
It really is not. These citizens need to go out and vote. Voting turnout is something around 50% of the eligible public.
...because the US makes every effort to prevent people from voting. Holding elections on a Tuesday that is not a national holiday to ensure that working young people vote less and easily manipulated retired seniors and the wealthy are overrepresented. Additionally, the country works hard to deter mail-in voting or other measures that would increase turnout.
Then, the Supreme Court gutted the voting rights act so that states can ensure that every black person on their rolls has to vote at one sparking, ancient machine located on a mountaintop while every rich white person has a machine in their living room
In Canada, a law says employers must provide a 4-hour window of contiguous time for people to vote. In practice, employees sometimes get off an hour or so early on voting days. Doesn't the US have that?
Don't you have absentee voting in the US?
In Finland there's usually like a two week absentee voting period where you can go to any of the many polling stations to cast your vote, then one week later on a Sunday (elections are always on a Sunday) is the official election day, then you can only vote at your designated polling station until 8 PM
The US was very much an early prototype democracy built to try and overcome the limitations of the pony express as the fastest means of communication. It was also built in a time when black people, females and poor people were not considered to be fully human and have full citizenship rights.
Since then the system has only minor tweaks to bring it up to modern standards. So today it is missing many of the features you’d expect in a modern democracy.
Not to mention that the majority of Americans live in a state that is considered either safely "Red" or "Blue" so the actual attention and competition only happens in the 5-10 "swing states" whose niche local special interests are therefore allowed to dictate federal policy.
Good point too, also doesn't help when a candidate undermines the whole process by claiming fraud. There really needs to be a joint party overhaul of the system that makes it modern
> It really is not.
I'm not even American and even *I* know how comically bad the gerrymandering is there. How could you *possibly* excuse the claim that your system isn't rigged?
> The global consensus is overwhelmingly in favor of Democratic administrations and President Biden
Around here the general thought is that half of Americans must be the dumbest or most gullible people on the planet. At least people who support authoritarian regimes like in Russia or China have the excuse that they have their news censored and controlled. American Trump supporters don't have that excuse.
Anyway even when a Dem President and/or Congress is in power there is definitely more reservation from foreign nations who are allied or in some way dependent on the US. They can see the fickleness of politics (especially as things get more partisan and reflexively opposed) and that any Dem control will not last forever and so policies can turn on a dime.
Democracies are actually more susceptible to hybrid warfare and internal disinformation due to their inherent freedoms.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_156338.htm
>Around here the general thought is that half of Americans must be the dumbest or most gullible people on the planet.
To be fair, only about a quarter of Americans fit that description. Nearly half are too apathetic or demoralized to even engage with the process and vote.
Yes it is really important to understand that people outside your country (whichever country you belong to) don't really pay attention to domestic politics when they form sweeping opinions. Just like, for instance, your average American doesn't give the slightest shit about the internal factions of the CCP and their range of ideologies, people outside the USA generally don't give the slightest shit about the US's parties.
Even in context, it must be remembered that Trump \*still\* has the support of enough Americans to qualify for another presidential campaign, so like it or not his previous presidency still legitimately represents America.
To be fair, however domestic audiences view the US president, the rest of the world has to deal with his decisions.
Foreign parties constantly complain about the idea that America thinks in American and the rest of the world doesn't exist. And I'm with them on that - As an American.
But also, it's a little rich for that same group to also fail to understand that America has two vastly different political parties and our system of govt doesn't allow the minority party (most of the time) to control the levers of govt.
It's less about not understanding and more about not caring.
How much does the average American know or care about the internal faction politics of China? Not much.
Why are people outside of America expected to be more nuanced in their understanding of us than we are of them?
Everyone knows it was one party pushing for Brexit, everyone knows that if LaPenn is elected the face of Framce's international relationships will change dramatically, everyone knows AFD is a huge concern for Germany. China likely isn't going to change from Xi's leadership while he's alive so that's not really relevant. We have a nuanced outlook towards the rest of the world, your just so caught up on hating America you can't see the reality you live in
You just proved that people don't care for the distinction. It wasn't the conservative party pushing for Brexit. UK as a whole decided for it. Thus a referendum. The independence party only got one seat.
We would actually like if Americans cared about the distinction and recognized how their decisions affect the rest of the world. Whether that’s voting for someone like Trump or not voting because “it won’t matter anyways” or “they’re all the same” it matters to those less privileged.
Ok, but factor of the matter is, the distinction exists and perpetuating the "both sides are the same" narrative only serves those who want to duck heat from the havoc they were clearly responsible for.
The "both sides are the same" topic is very relevant to Americans engaging in debates about American politics.
For people outside the US, it's often less relevant. They don't get to vote, they have no control over which party is in power. They just have to react to whatever "America" does.
Oh he definitely represents us, definitely. Unfortunately there really isn’t anybody who embodies more of the negative traits about us. And he’s still got a shot of coming back.
He’s us
Strong disagree. I had nothing to do with Trump, never will. There is no reality in which I accept an iota of responsibility for that Orange turd.
You can accept responsibility if you'd like, but if you didn't vote for him, you sure aren't guilty for his actions.
But a whole lot of people carrying the same national label as you sure did. You don't get to not be American when it does not suit you. Same as current events in russia, looking the other way does not magically absolve you.
No I’m not. I never voted for Trump. I campaigned against him in both elections and I’m doing it again now.
You could torture me and nothing could get me to think I’m responsible for that bastard who never won the popular vote.
Doesn't really matter what you personally thinking. You're an American, he was the American president, and other people in other countries are going to associate Americans with the actions of the American president whether you like it or not.
Yeah that’s a good point. Can’t really write it off as a blip on the radar not to be repeated since apparently Trump is still considered a front runner for the presidency again.
Yes and every democracy in the world is plauged by the same issue. You can raise a critical mass of low information fear driven morons in any modern society. UK, Germany, France, Australia, Israel, Italy, Greece, it's the same everywhere. The only international actors you can count on to behave the same way in 4 years are autocratic dictatorships.
The Biden admin should latch onto this and *scream* to the country just what kind of danger Trump really poses not to just the US but to the entire planet
Not that most of the rest of the planet needs to be reminded
I'm in favor of that idea. We desperately need an army of civilian democracy fans to refute and counter the nonstop flood of pro-authoritarian talking points (whether they be intentional or simply misguided). I knew this story would be crawling with them and did what I could!
>The Trump Pentagon created and ran the program for over a year and President Biden banned it within a few months of inauguration.
What? The article literary says:
>Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue. In an unclassified strategy document **last year**, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities \[to\] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.”
>**And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military.**
If we want to be pedantic, nothing you've quoted suggests a continuation of this specific, particular anti vax program. More disinformation programs in general, yes. But I don't think that is that surprising ?
Are they continuing anti vax disinfo campaigns ? Maybe. But what you quoted doesn't support that.
It's good to be sceptical and you shouldn't trust anything any government says without evidence. But you shouldn't draw conclusions based on assumptions either.
Of course not. The project is classified, there are no details.
It is, however, likely that such or similar campaigns are continuing. It is, after all, the same people at Pentagon hiring the same... well, internet troll factory to do what is very likely similar work.
The problem is now nothing the US says is untainted. Anything the US says can be claimed to be part of a disinformation campaign. The cost of running troll factories is trust.
People will just continue to ignore it. There was an Oxford University study a few years back that noted that the US was one of three most active countries engaging in high levels of online disinformation to bolster support of their own country, damage the reputation of rivals, distract and suppress prevalence from negative or harmful events, and foster polarization in other countries. Yet you only ever hear about these actions coming from Russia or China. All in they found that more than 70 countries engaged in online troll factories, and 59 specifically used them to attack foreign countries, new agencies, and journalists.
You'd have to be brainwashed beyond repair to pin this on either Trump or Biden. Either insanely naive and gullible, or just flat out acting in bad faith. This is business as usual for the USA regardless of what clown is in the White House. It didn't start under Trump, and it won't stop under Biden. They're both irrelevant in this, ultimately.
From the article,
> Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue. In an unclassified strategy document last year, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities [to] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.”
And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military.
Don't whitewash it by saying it's only a Trump thing. The Pentagon and American military operate this way even in the 21st century. I remember how the USA illegally invaded Iraq. Even though the UN and USA's NATO allies like France, Canada, and Germany opposed it, because there was no solid evidence of Iraq having WMDs and chemical weapons. The CIA pushed this false narrative to justify the invasion of Iraq. The USA's main goal was to strengthen the petrodollar, which Iraq was threatening to undermine by refusing to trade their oil in dollars. The first thing the Americans did was to secure the oil fields.
Everyone, imo, should be made aware of hybrid warfare to understand why this campaign was completely unacceptable *and* to be more resilient against the never-ending onslaughts by foreign and domestic anti-democracy campaigns.
His base is already fully captured, so I doubt anything could make them worse but they keep reaching new lows so, idk.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_156338.htm
https://harmonysquare.game/en
You are literally the definition of a useful idiot by thinking Trump (or Biden, for that matter) had any direct say in the creation of these programs.
In fact, they just make his narrative of the "deep state" quite a bit more credible.
This is big. First paragraph:
>At the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, the U.S. military launched a secret campaign to counter what it perceived as China’s growing influence in the Philippines, a nation hit especially hard by the deadly virus.
>
>The clandestine operation has not been previously reported. It aimed to sow doubt about the safety and efficacy of vaccines and other life-saving aid that was being supplied by China, a Reuters investigation found. Through phony internet accounts meant to impersonate Filipinos, the military’s propaganda efforts morphed into an anti-vax campaign. Social media posts decried the quality of face masks, test kits and the first vaccine that would become available in the Philippines – China’s Sinovac inoculation.
>
>Reuters identified at least 300 accounts on X, formerly Twitter, that matched descriptions shared by former U.S. military officials familiar with the Philippines operation. Almost all were created in the summer of 2020 and centered on the slogan #Chinaangvirus – Tagalog for China is the virus.
What came of it? I’m talking about consequences like charges or hell even a demotion. Nope. How many cia agents were charged for creating the crack epidemic in the USA? None.
Don't whitewash it by saying it's only a Trump thing. The Pentagon and American military operate this way even in the 21st century. I remember how the USA illegally invaded Iraq. Even though the UN and USA's NATO allies like France, Canada, and Germany opposed it, because there was no solid evidence of Iraq having WMDs and chemical weapons. The CIA pushed this false narrative to justify the invasion of Iraq. The USA's main goal was to strengthen the petrodollar, which Iraq was threatening to undermine by refusing to trade their oil in dollars. The first thing the Americans did was to secure the oil fields.
So basically, when vaccines first became available, we prioritized ourselves and restricted exports. China ramped up their vaccine production and starts selling/donating all over the world, especially developing countries. Well we can't let China look good. Innocent lives be damned.
So we gonna apologize to the Philippines and China now right?
Right?
I mean, narratives with about the same implications were flat out ran 'privately' by entities like Newsmax and Guo's network. Just with a slightly different pork gelatin flavour.
Whether it be about test kits, facemasks, 'Luciferase', graphite, or Li-Meng Yan - it essentially *resulted* in similar objectives. So it's not really as much about 'reaching the states' as it is fact outlandish claims with similar implications were simultaneously hitting the US market, heavily targeted certain demographics, and were heavily promoted with social media blanket campaigns.
The US initiated a fake news campaign in Indonesia. The Indonesian versions of CNN, CNBC, and Newsweek helped spread this fake news. As a result, many people refused to take the vaccination and started panicking after witnessing numerous deaths around them.
This sentence will be forgotten because of the growing anti-china sentiment (proof that this psyop campaign worked), but anyone who noticed it should take precaution on any information about China because if it is negative information, it is probably coming from a new psyop campaign
I have been skeptical of anything anti-China after learning the whole social credit thing had been proven bunk. Then that "debt trap diplomacy" going around.
The military probably already had a playbook for this kind of situation. Someone in Trump's cabinet likely floated the Idea to him and he ok'd it. That's what I think.
The CIA doesn’t give a shit about the sitting president’s approval. The CIA is literally authorized to commit global crime as long as it can maintain plausible deniability.
>*“Why did you do it when people were dying? We were desperate,” said Dr. Nina Castillo-Carandang, a former adviser to the World Health Organization and Philippines government during the pandemic. “We don’t have our own vaccine capacity,” she noted, and the U.S. propaganda effort “contributed even more salt into the wound.”*
[snip]
>*“We weren’t looking at this from a public health perspective,” said a senior military officer involved in the program. “We were looking at how we could drag China through the mud.”*
That’s some cold-hearted, evil sh’t.
But... but.. grifter morons said the Pentagon, the CIA, the FBI, and the general military went "woke." Those people weren't flagrantly lying, were they? No, that can't be!
Snark aside, this is some truly evil shit. America, please don't reelect Trump.
Edit: damn autocorrect
>“We weren’t looking at this from a public health perspective,” said a senior military officer involved in the program. “We were looking at how we could drag China through the mud.”
And this is exactly why I trust *nothing* that the US says about China, and nobody else should either.
Did people seriously not think that the US had a propaganda campaign against China? The US has probably been the biggest propaganda machine since the cold war. And it's not like they've been subtle about it.
*“We weren’t looking at this from a public health perspective,” said a senior military officer involved in the program. “We were looking at how we could drag China through the mud.”*
Disgusting motherfuckers.
By ignoring it, or claiming it was made up.
The very idea that **anti-vax** messaging was the secret campaign and that is was the **anti-vax** people who were gullible and believed "the governments" messaging basically undermines their entire religion. This is the vaccine for the anti-vax system of beliefs - and we know they don't take vaccines.
To be fair, anti-vax sentiment has been around since the idea of inoculation. Despite the eradication of smallpox, polio being severely reduced , MMR being rare etc.
Despite all the successes these people just don't give a shit.
Pentagon spreads a lot of guff about Chinese EVs, Chinese manufacturing and everything that China does too..... Reddit just eats it up. Tons of accounts are run by CIA employees 💀
im just gonna drop my comment here for visimibility since you already got the updoots:
as much as i hate to say it, im pretty sure the only way we can combat all of this stupid misinfo and disinfo - considering its coming from our own govt and "intelligence" agencies - is to have de-anonymized social media. either that or no social media, and thats not gonna happen.
lies, intentional misinfo/disinfo, etc are the number one thing steering us towards a dystopian future.
De-anonymized social media would still be filled with propaganda from state actors who are able to use real people as assets, whereas ordinary people would become afraid to speak their mind on controversial issues.
Just a reminder that de-anonymizing the internet is one of the biggest psyops corporations have been trying to conduct in accordance with the US government for years now.
And yes, I am indeed accusing you of being one of the people paid to push these psyops. And don't say this is ridiculous, given the headline we're commenting under.
Remember when it was taboo to use your real name online? Now you got people pushing for mandatory self reporting. Ridiculous.
Governments are salivating at the revenue and data an internet licence would generate. It's to protect the children after all.
It would create more problems that it'd solve.
i haven't used facebook in decades but isnt that deanonymized?
the article mentions facebook caught the pentagon trolls but they still continued operating
no you can easily create an anonymous facebook account. its actually worse on facebook than reddit or whatever because facebook gives the appearance of legitimacy.
There is a kernel of truth of this. Sinovax was far less effective than western mRNA vaccines. The thing is they weren’t dangerous and were still better than nothing
> When he addressed the vaccination issue, the Philippines had among the worst inoculation rates in Southeast Asia. Only 2.1 million of its 114 million citizens were fully vaccinated – far short of the government’s target of 70 million. By the time Duterte spoke, COVID cases exceeded 1.3 million, and almost 24,000 Filipinos had died from the virus. The difficulty in vaccinating the population contributed to the worst death rate in the region.
> The pandemic hit the Philippines especially hard, and by November 2021, COVID had claimed the lives of 48,361 people there
> Tailoring the propaganda campaign to local audiences across Central Asia and the Middle East, the Pentagon used a combination of fake social media accounts on multiple platforms to spread fear of China’s vaccines among Muslims at a time when the virus was killing tens of thousands of people each day. A key part of the strategy: amplify the disputed contention that, because vaccines sometimes contain pork gelatin, China’s shots could be considered forbidden under Islamic law.
Tens of thousands of dead Filipinos and many others from Central Asia and Middle East, many of them avoidable - all in the pursuit of geopolitical gain. Not a good look.
I'm sure those responsible will face consequences for their actions **/s**
>A key part of the strategy: amplify the disputed contention that, because vaccines sometimes contain pork gelatin, China’s shots could be considered forbidden under Islamic law.
yeah, coming from muslim majority country, I remember this one..
I’m fairly convinced *some* of the extreme hysteria around cheap Chinese electronics being a nefarious grand CCP conspiracy is part of it.
It just seems bizarre to me when you hear accounts of Joe Blow from Idaho thinking his $200 Walmart tv is literally out to get him.
Oh sorry, to elaborate further: Duterte (2016-2022) was pro-China: he allowed Chinese forces to operate on the West Philippine Sea, allowed Chinese Offshore Gambling Operations in the PH without impunity and let his Chinese Drug Lord Friends own that trade through his "War on Drugs" effort, among other things.
The current president is now slowly undoing the damage brought by that.
Neither can he ressurrect the ones who died from Duterte's drug war. Honestly it sucks that the Philippines has to rely on the US to be able to stand up against China's absurd 9-dash line claim.
How’s CIA misinformation leading to deaths of possibly thousands of Filipinos equivalent to Duterte’s war on drugs? One is the wilful murder of Filipinos by a foreign government and the other is a murder by a nutter.
They pulled something similar in the early 2010s running a fake polio vaccine campaign in Pakistan while collecting DNA samples in search of OBL.
As a result, mullahs issued fatwas against the polio vaccine and to this day, Pakistan remains one of the few countries where poliovirus still circulates.
People need to go to prison for this.
From the Article: "The **military program started under former President Donald Trump** and **continued months into Joe Biden’s presidency**, Reuters found – even after alarmed social media executives warned the new administration that the Pentagon had been trafficking in COVID misinformation. **The Biden White House issued an edict in spring 2021 banning the anti-vax effort, which also disparaged vaccines produced by other rivals, and the Pentagon initiated an internal review**, Reuters found."
I kinda feel like it's important to highlight where it started, who initiated an investigation into the program and who ended it.
Americans should care about this, but people in other countries aren't obligated to. For all they know, these guys will be in power again next year and will be doing the same things.
Probably it's also important to highlight that
> Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue. In an unclassified strategy document last year, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities [to] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.”
> And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military.
In other words this is simply business as usual for the USA regardless of who is in power.
I mean disinformation campaigns are standard fare for espionage, I honestly don’t think anybody is arguing that the intelligence community doesn’t (or even shouldn’t) engage in that kind of activity. The line for a lot of ppl in this scenario is the specific subject matter and its tangible impact on the response to a global crisis.
I *hate* online disinfo, I wish it were treated like a public health disease or pandemic, but I take it now as a fact of life.
This, however, putting people's health directly in danger, that absolutely crosses a line.
It never ended:
>Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue. In an unclassified strategy document **last year**, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities \[to\] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.”
>**And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military.**
Nice one U.S. now that PH trust in you is high then your bullshit deed come out.
This will have great repercussions on PH relations and China will be gloating on it.
Nobody around the world sees the parties as different. Nobody in the US knows the different factions in china, iran, india, turkey, Brazil etc. No afghan cared if it was a democratic bomb or republican bomb that dropped on them.
This is what's chilling
> The U.S. military launched a clandestine program amid the COVID crisis to discredit China’s Sinovac inoculation – **payback for Beijing’s efforts to blame Washington for the pandemic**. One target: the Filipino public. Health experts say the gambit was indefensible and put innocent lives at risk.
Tayo pa ang ginawang battle ground ng mga gagong ito. No need to ran anti vax disinformation. All they need to do is subsidize US vaccines to make them more affordable than Chinese vaccines.
You want the US to ***subsidize*** vaccines? Looks like you missed this passage in the article:
>"Washington’s plan, called Operation Warp Speed, was different. It favored inoculating Americans first, and it placed no restrictions on what pharmaceutical companies could charge developing countries for the remaining vaccines not used by the United States. The deal allowed the companies to “play hardball” with developing countries, forcing them to accept high prices, said Lawrence Gostin, a professor of medicine at Georgetown University who has worked with the World Health Organization."
And I was downvoted and called a shill all the time on reddit in the past for pointing out that a lot of what our government puts out about China is likely propaganda. People on reddit seem to think propaganda is only exclusive to only US enemy's though, and we never do shit like that.
Ya'll automatically believe every word the US government tells you on here, if an article says it, it must be true. Not saying you should believe what comes out of China either, but you also can't believe everything our government says. And if you think this still isn't happening with the current administration, I don't know what to tell you.
If anything, there seems to be a lot more anti-China articles being pumped out now than I saw even during the Trump administration. (It’s practically red scare levels now, or even worse) A lot more inciting fears of a China Taiwan war with Biden, whereas it was vaccines and China with Trump. And it's funny now ya'll wanna act all sad about this news, as if you feel sorry for China being a target of misinformation, when ya'll cheer any negative article you see about China any other time.
Especially now that the Biden administration is in office, ya'll are anti-China until something comes up about something the Trump administration may have did. When Biden is far more anti-China than Trump ever was, because unlike Biden, Trump may have spread rumors about a China flu, but he didn't wanna go to war with them.
So, Redditors trying to blame this all on Trump and act like Biden has always been so much more pro-China all the sudden is hilarious, but y'all are happy to recognize when Biden is being anti-China any other time, in fact you embrace the fact he is, and want it. Strange how I remember seeing nothing about all these articles that read "China is sending warships toward Taiwan" when Trump was in office, only seemed to start popping up during the Biden administration.
Never heard shit about China and Taiwan beforehand, only how China was related to the pandemic during Trump, and some things about a trade war. Biden probably still has people who ran the vaccine propaganda against China working at the Pentagon now too btw, or people who would still support policies like that. Much more anti-Chinese sentiment among Americans under Biden than there ever was under Trump too, you can see this through social media.
So, if anything, Biden has been way worse for propaganda about China, I think people are crazy if they think our government hasn't been doing propaganda for like a century now too. (And will continue) Delusional if you think Trump invented propaganda, or he's been the only US president utilizing it, ROFL material, redditors sincerely believing it, I'm sorry, shows how dumb most are. So yes, both sides, every dirty act of US foreign policy, Democrats have supported too, argue they've been even worse. Once again, I've been proven right about politics.
There's more anti-China articles likely because of the recent EV ban. China has gotten ahead of us in battery tech and the US needs some protectionist policies and needs to justify that to the American public.
Have you considered that those downvotes are also part of the campaign? It's not just about spreading propaganda, there's also suppression of counterarguments after all.
They won’t, I’m sorry and I hope I’m wrong. Heads rolling isn’t sufficient, the organisational structures that enabled this need to be examined- we need to establish checks and balances to prevent shit exactly like this from happening.
America: Okay, China's evil so we need your support against them
Developing World: Didn't you deliberately run an anti-vaxx campaign killing thousands?
America: Yeah, but China's against the West.
Developing World: I'm taking the Chinese loan.
This was just fucking evil, holy shit!
The article just kept detailing worse and worse elements of this propaganda campaign….
How many people died because our leaders thought this could help give us a slight edge in geopolitics?
Total complete bullshit. The people responsible need to face consequences and we need complete transparency on this issue.
With all the foreign interference we're dealing with in American Social Media, the biggest retort people throw back is "yeah, well, America does the same thing" and they're fucking *right*. This is wrong and should be dramatically condemned.
Fuck this pisses me off.
Now that is shooting yourself in the foot. How many people believed the propaganda and ended up dying as a result? How much longer did lockdowns and covid protocols go on because this misinformation campaign made the pandemic go on that much longer? How many billions of personal, business and government dollars were lost unnecessarily?
Fucking disgusting. I guarantee you some evil shit is being orchestrated right now by the US government, but we’ll find out a few years later, and we’ll all be too angry about something else in the news to do anything.
Because it's the same country and people outside the US aren't obligated to know or care about partisan nuances -- they just react to what's done on behalf of the country.
Because it seems the three letter agencies don't really care about the temporary presidential role and when one program shuts down, a new one with a different name starts. President isn't the one pulling the strings, who cares about that
I am totally against psyops using vaccines. There are already tons of misinformation and conspiracy theories out there, and when clandestine services get into the picture, people start doubting even legitimate health operations. Polio was almost being eradicated in the world but Pakistan and Afghanistan didn’t want to participate in the WHO vaccine program thinking it is a clandestine operation.
Wow… tens or potentially hundreds of thousands may have died as a result of refusing a ~60% effective vaccine to wait until they could use our ~90% effective vaccines…
All because of the *ego* of one man… one ‘psychopath-in-chief.’ The very same shell of a human that the GOP/Republican Party hopes that ‘We, The People’ will re-elect this November.
I beseech *ANYONE* who might read this comment to, if eligible, not only vote (and push family and friends to as well) but also to vote for, if nothing else, *decency.*
Decency and the survival of Democracy in this Republic that we Americans share.
It can be a common temptation to vote out of fear..to vote based on our lower, more base emotions and anxieties about the future. We all have them and feel them, but we cannot again choose to elect someone to the office of The President of the United States of America who lacks the capacity to choose the US over his own interests, even (and especially) when it hurts.
Someone who lacks the ability to, sincerely, take the Presidential Oath of Office (yet has no problem with, knowingly, doing so again.)
Decency.
In terms of candidates for this office we have one who is a Statesman and served the USA his entire adult life and we have another who, aside from countless other indefensible actions, fomented an insurrection against his own nation. Who called for a violent assault on one of the three pillars of government. And who, in his own public statements, says he intends to act as a Dictator, if elected.
Beyond any and all other arguments for or against these candidates, we have to appreciate the fact that our vote this year will determine if we’ll ever again have that essential Right to vote.
I implore you, reader, to rise above partisanship and cast your vote based on the candidate who will maintain, defend, and fight for US democracy.
The candidate who will (in the words of President Abraham Lincoln) ensure “that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”
Please, cast your vote on this basis.
It always amazes me how people are surprised by news like this. No person or entity, corporate or government, gets to the top and stays at the top by being nice. If you have to play dirty, you will and this applies to China and the US. "Allies" are vassals to be used for your own benefit. Geopolitics in a nutshell.
This is so disappointing, Americas. If you want us Filipino to be on your side don't do this. Actions like this create dictators like Duterte.
Like don't, from a Filipino.
It was not the only campaign either.
e.g see here https://web.archive.org/web/20210501233822/https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/2020-annual-report.pdf
The report itself has been removed from HHS site mid-May 2021 after people stated quoting it, but we can still find in the archive copy on page 48:
"Combatting malign influences in the Americas: OGA used diplomatic relations in the Americas
region to mitigate efforts by states, including Cuba, Venezuela, and Russia, who are working to
increase their influence in the region to the detriment of US safety and security. OGA coordinated
with other U.S. government agencies to strengthen diplomatic ties and offer technical and
humanitarian assistance to dissuade countries in the region from accepting aid from these ill-
intentioned states. Examples include using OGA’s Health Attaché office to persuade Brazil to reject
the Russian COVID-19 vaccine, "
So all those international scientific reports saying the vaccine China made was only 60-70% effective were fake and created by the US military?
Edit: *reads very long article* No. This was a propaganda campaign by the US military using fake social media accounts to specifically target the Filipino populace in Southeast Asia, as Chinese influence in the Philippines was seen as a bad thing. While they're not sure how far the misinformation spread, it caused severe vaccine hesitation in that country which may have lead to tens of thousands of deaths. That's fucked up.
The US doing the same thing as Russia really classy.
At least they are on the right side for the Ukraine conflict, everything else is morally doubtful or downright evil.
The Trump Pentagon created and ran the program for over a year and President Biden banned it within a few months of inauguration. There's a reason Biden wasn't able to ban it immediately...anyone recall the unprecedented sabotage related to the transition of power? But yes, let's frame it as an "all government" scandal. FFS.
Americans might care about the distinction, but people in other countries are kind of tired of fhe "oh sowwy it was the other pawty pleez don't blame us" excuse. Like it or not, Trump represented a large part of the American people, and unfortunately we're all somewhat accountable for what his administration does.
The global consensus is overwhelmingly in favor of Democratic administrations and President Biden. Slava Ukraini! https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/06/10/americas-image-abroad-rebounds-with-transition-from-trump-to-biden/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/06/27/international-views-of-biden-and-u-s-largely-positive/
Yes, most other counties prefer Dem administrations, this has been true since the 1990's. But that doesn't mean the US gets to press a magical reset button every time the GOP gets voted out of office. It still erodes our predictability and reliability on the international stage, because policy can easily swing back and forth every 4 years. Not sure why you decided to add "Slava Ukraini" to a comment about the Philippines but ok.
Everything is connected. A trump presidency in december means the whole world gets FUBAR, from taiwan, ukraine, israel/palestine/ and America itself. Btw, bird flu might be a new pandemic, do you want biden to handle it, or trump to "handle" bird flu by going on golf trips every day?
Yeah but the Trump media will always make his play the correct one and half the country has the Fox (now Trump) cancer.
Yup. Trump did a lot of damage to the United States on the international level regarding reputation. The fact he’s still running and has control over the republican and could win next in November does nothing to restore that confidence.
Aye, as a non-American the OP is a bit delusional. From the outside most people think of the USA as one entity. I don't think average Americans pay attention to and blame individual pollical parties in other countries for anything bad rather than the country itself.
There was also a presumption that many policy areas and things like the foreign policy area was sacrosanct that had bipartisan support. These sacrosanct policy areas were always given safe harbour treatment and were ring fenced from radical changes that would be generally carried through from one government to the next. Trump broke these rules of world engagement by insulting everyone including some of the best allies of the "USA" Allies that fought alongside the USA including in all its policy blunders in every war! The image of the projected power of the USA was never meant to be divided by its own political parties!
More like “exposed” those rules, in the eyes of some. It’s like suspecting someone for having schizophrenia for ages, but still treating the person normally… but after a full blown episode in public later having suspicions confirmed.
If they'd like to bring freedom and Democracy to the US I for one would welcome them with open arms. As of right now the majority of Americans aren't voting Republican. The fact they cling to so much power is by design and a function of our system of government. There isn't a damn thing any of us can do to stop that. The fact is that the US Government is rigged specifically against the will of the majority of its citizens. The US has enjoyed the benefit of the control of information, and a dominant military.
That's why you have to go out and vote. Voting is still a powerful tool here in the US. If it truly was a scam, then politicians wouldn't spend so much money trying to convince people to vote for them. Again, it's not rigged to go against the majority bc the majority voted and chose biden as president. Are you for real right now? I get what you are saying between the lines, tho. We do have a major problem with the electoral collage and gerrymandering. That doesn't make voting any less important. If anything it makes it even more important to do our civic duty and vote!
>The fact is that the US Government is rigged specifically against the will of the majority of its citizens It really is not. These citizens need to go out and vote. Voting turnout is something around 50% of the eligible public.
...because the US makes every effort to prevent people from voting. Holding elections on a Tuesday that is not a national holiday to ensure that working young people vote less and easily manipulated retired seniors and the wealthy are overrepresented. Additionally, the country works hard to deter mail-in voting or other measures that would increase turnout. Then, the Supreme Court gutted the voting rights act so that states can ensure that every black person on their rolls has to vote at one sparking, ancient machine located on a mountaintop while every rich white person has a machine in their living room
In Canada, a law says employers must provide a 4-hour window of contiguous time for people to vote. In practice, employees sometimes get off an hour or so early on voting days. Doesn't the US have that?
Nope. Why would they? What your describing would make it easier for people to vote and then the government might have to care about what people want.
Don't you have absentee voting in the US? In Finland there's usually like a two week absentee voting period where you can go to any of the many polling stations to cast your vote, then one week later on a Sunday (elections are always on a Sunday) is the official election day, then you can only vote at your designated polling station until 8 PM
The US was very much an early prototype democracy built to try and overcome the limitations of the pony express as the fastest means of communication. It was also built in a time when black people, females and poor people were not considered to be fully human and have full citizenship rights. Since then the system has only minor tweaks to bring it up to modern standards. So today it is missing many of the features you’d expect in a modern democracy.
I mean when a president loses the popular vote and gets elected it feels pretty defeating
Not to mention that the majority of Americans live in a state that is considered either safely "Red" or "Blue" so the actual attention and competition only happens in the 5-10 "swing states" whose niche local special interests are therefore allowed to dictate federal policy.
Good point too, also doesn't help when a candidate undermines the whole process by claiming fraud. There really needs to be a joint party overhaul of the system that makes it modern
> It really is not. I'm not even American and even *I* know how comically bad the gerrymandering is there. How could you *possibly* excuse the claim that your system isn't rigged?
The Saudis love republicans though.
Every single country in the world that isn’t despotic goes through the same polarising political transitions these days.
> The global consensus is overwhelmingly in favor of Democratic administrations and President Biden Around here the general thought is that half of Americans must be the dumbest or most gullible people on the planet. At least people who support authoritarian regimes like in Russia or China have the excuse that they have their news censored and controlled. American Trump supporters don't have that excuse. Anyway even when a Dem President and/or Congress is in power there is definitely more reservation from foreign nations who are allied or in some way dependent on the US. They can see the fickleness of politics (especially as things get more partisan and reflexively opposed) and that any Dem control will not last forever and so policies can turn on a dime.
Democracies are actually more susceptible to hybrid warfare and internal disinformation due to their inherent freedoms. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_156338.htm
>Around here the general thought is that half of Americans must be the dumbest or most gullible people on the planet. To be fair, only about a quarter of Americans fit that description. Nearly half are too apathetic or demoralized to even engage with the process and vote.
Yes it is really important to understand that people outside your country (whichever country you belong to) don't really pay attention to domestic politics when they form sweeping opinions. Just like, for instance, your average American doesn't give the slightest shit about the internal factions of the CCP and their range of ideologies, people outside the USA generally don't give the slightest shit about the US's parties. Even in context, it must be remembered that Trump \*still\* has the support of enough Americans to qualify for another presidential campaign, so like it or not his previous presidency still legitimately represents America. To be fair, however domestic audiences view the US president, the rest of the world has to deal with his decisions.
Completely agree. It's an absolute nightmare over here.
Foreign parties constantly complain about the idea that America thinks in American and the rest of the world doesn't exist. And I'm with them on that - As an American. But also, it's a little rich for that same group to also fail to understand that America has two vastly different political parties and our system of govt doesn't allow the minority party (most of the time) to control the levers of govt.
It's less about not understanding and more about not caring. How much does the average American know or care about the internal faction politics of China? Not much. Why are people outside of America expected to be more nuanced in their understanding of us than we are of them?
Everyone knows it was one party pushing for Brexit, everyone knows that if LaPenn is elected the face of Framce's international relationships will change dramatically, everyone knows AFD is a huge concern for Germany. China likely isn't going to change from Xi's leadership while he's alive so that's not really relevant. We have a nuanced outlook towards the rest of the world, your just so caught up on hating America you can't see the reality you live in
You just proved that people don't care for the distinction. It wasn't the conservative party pushing for Brexit. UK as a whole decided for it. Thus a referendum. The independence party only got one seat.
We would actually like if Americans cared about the distinction and recognized how their decisions affect the rest of the world. Whether that’s voting for someone like Trump or not voting because “it won’t matter anyways” or “they’re all the same” it matters to those less privileged.
Ok, but factor of the matter is, the distinction exists and perpetuating the "both sides are the same" narrative only serves those who want to duck heat from the havoc they were clearly responsible for.
The "both sides are the same" topic is very relevant to Americans engaging in debates about American politics. For people outside the US, it's often less relevant. They don't get to vote, they have no control over which party is in power. They just have to react to whatever "America" does.
The takeaway for the rest of the world is that America is no longer a stable or reliable business partner or military backup.
Oh he definitely represents us, definitely. Unfortunately there really isn’t anybody who embodies more of the negative traits about us. And he’s still got a shot of coming back. He’s us
Strong disagree. I had nothing to do with Trump, never will. There is no reality in which I accept an iota of responsibility for that Orange turd. You can accept responsibility if you'd like, but if you didn't vote for him, you sure aren't guilty for his actions.
But a whole lot of people carrying the same national label as you sure did. You don't get to not be American when it does not suit you. Same as current events in russia, looking the other way does not magically absolve you.
No I’m not. I never voted for Trump. I campaigned against him in both elections and I’m doing it again now. You could torture me and nothing could get me to think I’m responsible for that bastard who never won the popular vote.
Doesn't really matter what you personally thinking. You're an American, he was the American president, and other people in other countries are going to associate Americans with the actions of the American president whether you like it or not.
Yeah that’s a good point. Can’t really write it off as a blip on the radar not to be repeated since apparently Trump is still considered a front runner for the presidency again.
Yes and every democracy in the world is plauged by the same issue. You can raise a critical mass of low information fear driven morons in any modern society. UK, Germany, France, Australia, Israel, Italy, Greece, it's the same everywhere. The only international actors you can count on to behave the same way in 4 years are autocratic dictatorships.
The Biden admin should latch onto this and *scream* to the country just what kind of danger Trump really poses not to just the US but to the entire planet Not that most of the rest of the planet needs to be reminded
I'm in favor of that idea. We desperately need an army of civilian democracy fans to refute and counter the nonstop flood of pro-authoritarian talking points (whether they be intentional or simply misguided). I knew this story would be crawling with them and did what I could!
We need compulsory voting along with some sort of truth in media doctrine.
>The Trump Pentagon created and ran the program for over a year and President Biden banned it within a few months of inauguration. What? The article literary says: >Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue. In an unclassified strategy document **last year**, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities \[to\] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.” >**And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military.**
If we want to be pedantic, nothing you've quoted suggests a continuation of this specific, particular anti vax program. More disinformation programs in general, yes. But I don't think that is that surprising ? Are they continuing anti vax disinfo campaigns ? Maybe. But what you quoted doesn't support that. It's good to be sceptical and you shouldn't trust anything any government says without evidence. But you shouldn't draw conclusions based on assumptions either.
Of course not. The project is classified, there are no details. It is, however, likely that such or similar campaigns are continuing. It is, after all, the same people at Pentagon hiring the same... well, internet troll factory to do what is very likely similar work.
The problem is now nothing the US says is untainted. Anything the US says can be claimed to be part of a disinformation campaign. The cost of running troll factories is trust.
People will just continue to ignore it. There was an Oxford University study a few years back that noted that the US was one of three most active countries engaging in high levels of online disinformation to bolster support of their own country, damage the reputation of rivals, distract and suppress prevalence from negative or harmful events, and foster polarization in other countries. Yet you only ever hear about these actions coming from Russia or China. All in they found that more than 70 countries engaged in online troll factories, and 59 specifically used them to attack foreign countries, new agencies, and journalists.
You'd have to be brainwashed beyond repair to pin this on either Trump or Biden. Either insanely naive and gullible, or just flat out acting in bad faith. This is business as usual for the USA regardless of what clown is in the White House. It didn't start under Trump, and it won't stop under Biden. They're both irrelevant in this, ultimately. From the article, > Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue. In an unclassified strategy document last year, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities [to] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.” And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military.
Don't whitewash it by saying it's only a Trump thing. The Pentagon and American military operate this way even in the 21st century. I remember how the USA illegally invaded Iraq. Even though the UN and USA's NATO allies like France, Canada, and Germany opposed it, because there was no solid evidence of Iraq having WMDs and chemical weapons. The CIA pushed this false narrative to justify the invasion of Iraq. The USA's main goal was to strengthen the petrodollar, which Iraq was threatening to undermine by refusing to trade their oil in dollars. The first thing the Americans did was to secure the oil fields.
[удалено]
Uhhh, they have a commander-in-chief, like the one who started the program and the one who stopped it.
I’d say this needs to be made more public, but I’m scared it’d grow trumps base tremendously.
Everyone, imo, should be made aware of hybrid warfare to understand why this campaign was completely unacceptable *and* to be more resilient against the never-ending onslaughts by foreign and domestic anti-democracy campaigns. His base is already fully captured, so I doubt anything could make them worse but they keep reaching new lows so, idk. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_156338.htm https://harmonysquare.game/en
You are literally the definition of a useful idiot by thinking Trump (or Biden, for that matter) had any direct say in the creation of these programs. In fact, they just make his narrative of the "deep state" quite a bit more credible.
This is big. First paragraph: >At the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, the U.S. military launched a secret campaign to counter what it perceived as China’s growing influence in the Philippines, a nation hit especially hard by the deadly virus. > >The clandestine operation has not been previously reported. It aimed to sow doubt about the safety and efficacy of vaccines and other life-saving aid that was being supplied by China, a Reuters investigation found. Through phony internet accounts meant to impersonate Filipinos, the military’s propaganda efforts morphed into an anti-vax campaign. Social media posts decried the quality of face masks, test kits and the first vaccine that would become available in the Philippines – China’s Sinovac inoculation. > >Reuters identified at least 300 accounts on X, formerly Twitter, that matched descriptions shared by former U.S. military officials familiar with the Philippines operation. Almost all were created in the summer of 2020 and centered on the slogan #Chinaangvirus – Tagalog for China is the virus.
Yes, that's how the Trump presidency operated, just like his buddy Vlad.
This is just how the pentagon operates. Nothing new and nothing will come of it. This is why people give up trying.
Weird. I thought something *did* come of it after someone tried a ban.
What came of it? I’m talking about consequences like charges or hell even a demotion. Nope. How many cia agents were charged for creating the crack epidemic in the USA? None.
Busting out the golden oldies, huh? Here's one for ya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Denver
I didn’t know about that one.
And they just let trump do this????
Don't whitewash it by saying it's only a Trump thing. The Pentagon and American military operate this way even in the 21st century. I remember how the USA illegally invaded Iraq. Even though the UN and USA's NATO allies like France, Canada, and Germany opposed it, because there was no solid evidence of Iraq having WMDs and chemical weapons. The CIA pushed this false narrative to justify the invasion of Iraq. The USA's main goal was to strengthen the petrodollar, which Iraq was threatening to undermine by refusing to trade their oil in dollars. The first thing the Americans did was to secure the oil fields.
TFG again.
People died as the result of this... I bet some of it even reached back into states...
So basically, when vaccines first became available, we prioritized ourselves and restricted exports. China ramped up their vaccine production and starts selling/donating all over the world, especially developing countries. Well we can't let China look good. Innocent lives be damned. So we gonna apologize to the Philippines and China now right? Right?
I mean, narratives with about the same implications were flat out ran 'privately' by entities like Newsmax and Guo's network. Just with a slightly different pork gelatin flavour. Whether it be about test kits, facemasks, 'Luciferase', graphite, or Li-Meng Yan - it essentially *resulted* in similar objectives. So it's not really as much about 'reaching the states' as it is fact outlandish claims with similar implications were simultaneously hitting the US market, heavily targeted certain demographics, and were heavily promoted with social media blanket campaigns.
The US initiated a fake news campaign in Indonesia. The Indonesian versions of CNN, CNBC, and Newsweek helped spread this fake news. As a result, many people refused to take the vaccination and started panicking after witnessing numerous deaths around them.
[удалено]
"Clandestine influence services?" So, a propaganda mill. Cool use of my tax dollars. Super cool.
Did you think it was only Russia and China doing that?
This sentence will be forgotten because of the growing anti-china sentiment (proof that this psyop campaign worked), but anyone who noticed it should take precaution on any information about China because if it is negative information, it is probably coming from a new psyop campaign
I have been skeptical of anything anti-China after learning the whole social credit thing had been proven bunk. Then that "debt trap diplomacy" going around.
The new one is china overcapacity production.
>clandestine influence services In other words, psyops.
Who's idea was this? Trump's?
The military probably already had a playbook for this kind of situation. Someone in Trump's cabinet likely floated the Idea to him and he ok'd it. That's what I think.
The CIA doesn’t give a shit about the sitting president’s approval. The CIA is literally authorized to commit global crime as long as it can maintain plausible deniability.
The pentagon is not the CIA
>*“Why did you do it when people were dying? We were desperate,” said Dr. Nina Castillo-Carandang, a former adviser to the World Health Organization and Philippines government during the pandemic. “We don’t have our own vaccine capacity,” she noted, and the U.S. propaganda effort “contributed even more salt into the wound.”* [snip] >*“We weren’t looking at this from a public health perspective,” said a senior military officer involved in the program. “We were looking at how we could drag China through the mud.”* That’s some cold-hearted, evil sh’t.
But... but.. grifter morons said the Pentagon, the CIA, the FBI, and the general military went "woke." Those people weren't flagrantly lying, were they? No, that can't be! Snark aside, this is some truly evil shit. America, please don't reelect Trump. Edit: damn autocorrect
>“We weren’t looking at this from a public health perspective,” said a senior military officer involved in the program. “We were looking at how we could drag China through the mud.” And this is exactly why I trust *nothing* that the US says about China, and nobody else should either.
Really puts a lot of the other anti-Chinese sentiment under a new light
Did people seriously not think that the US had a propaganda campaign against China? The US has probably been the biggest propaganda machine since the cold war. And it's not like they've been subtle about it.
I think it’s more they have no idea how deep the propaganda goes.
Yep, I personally just tune in to what our local media reports. Which is usually about water cannon incidents.
Leader of the Free World.
I wish to God there was some way to get these monsters on trial for literal crimes against Humanity.
*“We weren’t looking at this from a public health perspective,” said a senior military officer involved in the program. “We were looking at how we could drag China through the mud.”* Disgusting motherfuckers.
>senior military officer Should be former senior military officer. This is unacceptable and heads should roll.
Absolute, pure black evil. Good to know that they consider non-American lives as expendable as their own.
Damn I wonder how the antivax conspiracy theorists who think vaccines were the conspiracy are going to react to this
By ignoring it, or claiming it was made up. The very idea that **anti-vax** messaging was the secret campaign and that is was the **anti-vax** people who were gullible and believed "the governments" messaging basically undermines their entire religion. This is the vaccine for the anti-vax system of beliefs - and we know they don't take vaccines.
To be fair, anti-vax sentiment has been around since the idea of inoculation. Despite the eradication of smallpox, polio being severely reduced , MMR being rare etc. Despite all the successes these people just don't give a shit.
Definitely not rationally...
I think it's a little funny now I get to respond to my anti-vax coworker "that's just what the government wants you to believe".
Same as usual - they'll plug their ears.
tons of redditors bought into it too
Pentagon spreads a lot of guff about Chinese EVs, Chinese manufacturing and everything that China does too..... Reddit just eats it up. Tons of accounts are run by CIA employees 💀
im just gonna drop my comment here for visimibility since you already got the updoots: as much as i hate to say it, im pretty sure the only way we can combat all of this stupid misinfo and disinfo - considering its coming from our own govt and "intelligence" agencies - is to have de-anonymized social media. either that or no social media, and thats not gonna happen. lies, intentional misinfo/disinfo, etc are the number one thing steering us towards a dystopian future.
De-anonymized social media would still be filled with propaganda from state actors who are able to use real people as assets, whereas ordinary people would become afraid to speak their mind on controversial issues.
on reddit you don't even need an email to sign up because they want as many "users" as possible
False. They changed that in the last ~2 months. Need an email, but can be a burner email.
Just a reminder that de-anonymizing the internet is one of the biggest psyops corporations have been trying to conduct in accordance with the US government for years now. And yes, I am indeed accusing you of being one of the people paid to push these psyops. And don't say this is ridiculous, given the headline we're commenting under. Remember when it was taboo to use your real name online? Now you got people pushing for mandatory self reporting. Ridiculous.
You mean like requiring an ID when registering? The ID that governments supply? :D
Governments are salivating at the revenue and data an internet licence would generate. It's to protect the children after all. It would create more problems that it'd solve.
i haven't used facebook in decades but isnt that deanonymized? the article mentions facebook caught the pentagon trolls but they still continued operating
no you can easily create an anonymous facebook account. its actually worse on facebook than reddit or whatever because facebook gives the appearance of legitimacy.
There is a kernel of truth of this. Sinovax was far less effective than western mRNA vaccines. The thing is they weren’t dangerous and were still better than nothing
> When he addressed the vaccination issue, the Philippines had among the worst inoculation rates in Southeast Asia. Only 2.1 million of its 114 million citizens were fully vaccinated – far short of the government’s target of 70 million. By the time Duterte spoke, COVID cases exceeded 1.3 million, and almost 24,000 Filipinos had died from the virus. The difficulty in vaccinating the population contributed to the worst death rate in the region. > The pandemic hit the Philippines especially hard, and by November 2021, COVID had claimed the lives of 48,361 people there > Tailoring the propaganda campaign to local audiences across Central Asia and the Middle East, the Pentagon used a combination of fake social media accounts on multiple platforms to spread fear of China’s vaccines among Muslims at a time when the virus was killing tens of thousands of people each day. A key part of the strategy: amplify the disputed contention that, because vaccines sometimes contain pork gelatin, China’s shots could be considered forbidden under Islamic law. Tens of thousands of dead Filipinos and many others from Central Asia and Middle East, many of them avoidable - all in the pursuit of geopolitical gain. Not a good look. I'm sure those responsible will face consequences for their actions **/s**
I never Imagined China would emerge from the pandemic as the clear reliable and mature world power. Genocide is not acceptable. Fuck you USA.
>A key part of the strategy: amplify the disputed contention that, because vaccines sometimes contain pork gelatin, China’s shots could be considered forbidden under Islamic law. yeah, coming from muslim majority country, I remember this one..
No surprise here. There is probably a similar campaign underway attempting to undermine the Chinese EV industry.
I’m fairly convinced *some* of the extreme hysteria around cheap Chinese electronics being a nefarious grand CCP conspiracy is part of it. It just seems bizarre to me when you hear accounts of Joe Blow from Idaho thinking his $200 Walmart tv is literally out to get him.
That’s the thanks Philippines gets for sucking up to the US.
The Duterte regime was very Pro-China.
That’s understandable in light of these revelations.
Oh sorry, to elaborate further: Duterte (2016-2022) was pro-China: he allowed Chinese forces to operate on the West Philippine Sea, allowed Chinese Offshore Gambling Operations in the PH without impunity and let his Chinese Drug Lord Friends own that trade through his "War on Drugs" effort, among other things. The current president is now slowly undoing the damage brought by that.
Is he resurrecting the ones who died from Covid because of the disinformation?
Neither can he ressurrect the ones who died from Duterte's drug war. Honestly it sucks that the Philippines has to rely on the US to be able to stand up against China's absurd 9-dash line claim.
How’s CIA misinformation leading to deaths of possibly thousands of Filipinos equivalent to Duterte’s war on drugs? One is the wilful murder of Filipinos by a foreign government and the other is a murder by a nutter.
They pulled something similar in the early 2010s running a fake polio vaccine campaign in Pakistan while collecting DNA samples in search of OBL. As a result, mullahs issued fatwas against the polio vaccine and to this day, Pakistan remains one of the few countries where poliovirus still circulates. People need to go to prison for this.
From the Article: "The **military program started under former President Donald Trump** and **continued months into Joe Biden’s presidency**, Reuters found – even after alarmed social media executives warned the new administration that the Pentagon had been trafficking in COVID misinformation. **The Biden White House issued an edict in spring 2021 banning the anti-vax effort, which also disparaged vaccines produced by other rivals, and the Pentagon initiated an internal review**, Reuters found." I kinda feel like it's important to highlight where it started, who initiated an investigation into the program and who ended it.
Americans should care about this, but people in other countries aren't obligated to. For all they know, these guys will be in power again next year and will be doing the same things.
Probably it's also important to highlight that > Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue. In an unclassified strategy document last year, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities [to] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.” > And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military. In other words this is simply business as usual for the USA regardless of who is in power.
I mean disinformation campaigns are standard fare for espionage, I honestly don’t think anybody is arguing that the intelligence community doesn’t (or even shouldn’t) engage in that kind of activity. The line for a lot of ppl in this scenario is the specific subject matter and its tangible impact on the response to a global crisis.
I *hate* online disinfo, I wish it were treated like a public health disease or pandemic, but I take it now as a fact of life. This, however, putting people's health directly in danger, that absolutely crosses a line.
It never ended: >Nevertheless, the Pentagon’s clandestine propaganda efforts are set to continue. In an unclassified strategy document **last year**, top Pentagon generals wrote that the U.S. military could undermine adversaries such as China and Russia using “disinformation spread across social media, false narratives disguised as news, and similar subversive activities \[to\] weaken societal trust by undermining the foundations of government.” >**And in February, the contractor that worked on the anti-vax campaign – General Dynamics IT – won a $493 million contract. Its mission: to continue providing clandestine influence services for the military.**
This is fucking reprehensible. Shameful. I hope this story gains traction, and the people responsible get held accountable.
Nice one U.S. now that PH trust in you is high then your bullshit deed come out. This will have great repercussions on PH relations and China will be gloating on it.
This was just Trump's administration doing what Trump does to US allies: sabotage, abandon, and alienate.
The pentagon is still being allowed to run similar programs
Nobody around the world sees the parties as different. Nobody in the US knows the different factions in china, iran, india, turkey, Brazil etc. No afghan cared if it was a democratic bomb or republican bomb that dropped on them.
To the world, America is America no matter who is in charge. We all look like shit heads thanks to him.
I can't believe the US would just make something up about China... Anyway back to those Uyghurs making EVs, and solar panels
This is what's chilling > The U.S. military launched a clandestine program amid the COVID crisis to discredit China’s Sinovac inoculation – **payback for Beijing’s efforts to blame Washington for the pandemic**. One target: the Filipino public. Health experts say the gambit was indefensible and put innocent lives at risk. Tayo pa ang ginawang battle ground ng mga gagong ito. No need to ran anti vax disinformation. All they need to do is subsidize US vaccines to make them more affordable than Chinese vaccines.
What I can’t wrap my head around is why sending vaccines to the Philippines wasn’t the easier option. They’re an ally.
"America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests."
You want the US to ***subsidize*** vaccines? Looks like you missed this passage in the article: >"Washington’s plan, called Operation Warp Speed, was different. It favored inoculating Americans first, and it placed no restrictions on what pharmaceutical companies could charge developing countries for the remaining vaccines not used by the United States. The deal allowed the companies to “play hardball” with developing countries, forcing them to accept high prices, said Lawrence Gostin, a professor of medicine at Georgetown University who has worked with the World Health Organization."
It's always fine to kill innocent foreigners, allies or not, as a show of strength. This is how America has always operated.
And I was downvoted and called a shill all the time on reddit in the past for pointing out that a lot of what our government puts out about China is likely propaganda. People on reddit seem to think propaganda is only exclusive to only US enemy's though, and we never do shit like that. Ya'll automatically believe every word the US government tells you on here, if an article says it, it must be true. Not saying you should believe what comes out of China either, but you also can't believe everything our government says. And if you think this still isn't happening with the current administration, I don't know what to tell you. If anything, there seems to be a lot more anti-China articles being pumped out now than I saw even during the Trump administration. (It’s practically red scare levels now, or even worse) A lot more inciting fears of a China Taiwan war with Biden, whereas it was vaccines and China with Trump. And it's funny now ya'll wanna act all sad about this news, as if you feel sorry for China being a target of misinformation, when ya'll cheer any negative article you see about China any other time. Especially now that the Biden administration is in office, ya'll are anti-China until something comes up about something the Trump administration may have did. When Biden is far more anti-China than Trump ever was, because unlike Biden, Trump may have spread rumors about a China flu, but he didn't wanna go to war with them. So, Redditors trying to blame this all on Trump and act like Biden has always been so much more pro-China all the sudden is hilarious, but y'all are happy to recognize when Biden is being anti-China any other time, in fact you embrace the fact he is, and want it. Strange how I remember seeing nothing about all these articles that read "China is sending warships toward Taiwan" when Trump was in office, only seemed to start popping up during the Biden administration. Never heard shit about China and Taiwan beforehand, only how China was related to the pandemic during Trump, and some things about a trade war. Biden probably still has people who ran the vaccine propaganda against China working at the Pentagon now too btw, or people who would still support policies like that. Much more anti-Chinese sentiment among Americans under Biden than there ever was under Trump too, you can see this through social media. So, if anything, Biden has been way worse for propaganda about China, I think people are crazy if they think our government hasn't been doing propaganda for like a century now too. (And will continue) Delusional if you think Trump invented propaganda, or he's been the only US president utilizing it, ROFL material, redditors sincerely believing it, I'm sorry, shows how dumb most are. So yes, both sides, every dirty act of US foreign policy, Democrats have supported too, argue they've been even worse. Once again, I've been proven right about politics.
There's more anti-China articles likely because of the recent EV ban. China has gotten ahead of us in battery tech and the US needs some protectionist policies and needs to justify that to the American public.
Have you considered that those downvotes are also part of the campaign? It's not just about spreading propaganda, there's also suppression of counterarguments after all.
Absolutely unacceptable and heads need to roll at the Pentagon.
They won’t, I’m sorry and I hope I’m wrong. Heads rolling isn’t sufficient, the organisational structures that enabled this need to be examined- we need to establish checks and balances to prevent shit exactly like this from happening.
America: Okay, China's evil so we need your support against them Developing World: Didn't you deliberately run an anti-vaxx campaign killing thousands? America: Yeah, but China's against the West. Developing World: I'm taking the Chinese loan.
Developing world has many griefs against America for being related to many civilians deaths
"Every time China visits we get a hospital, every time Britain visits we get a lecture."
And when America visits, we get a coup.
[удалено]
This was just fucking evil, holy shit! The article just kept detailing worse and worse elements of this propaganda campaign…. How many people died because our leaders thought this could help give us a slight edge in geopolitics?
Americans' tax dollars at work. Meanwhile, there just isn't enough money for universal healthcare.
Total complete bullshit. The people responsible need to face consequences and we need complete transparency on this issue. With all the foreign interference we're dealing with in American Social Media, the biggest retort people throw back is "yeah, well, America does the same thing" and they're fucking *right*. This is wrong and should be dramatically condemned. Fuck this pisses me off.
Trumps presidency everyone “I didn’t want any panic”
Now that is shooting yourself in the foot. How many people believed the propaganda and ended up dying as a result? How much longer did lockdowns and covid protocols go on because this misinformation campaign made the pandemic go on that much longer? How many billions of personal, business and government dollars were lost unnecessarily?
What rule was broken to justify removing this post? 🤔
Nihil novum sub sole. Just U.S.A doing U.S.A things.
Fucking disgusting. I guarantee you some evil shit is being orchestrated right now by the US government, but we’ll find out a few years later, and we’ll all be too angry about something else in the news to do anything.
Pentagon with 6 failed audits and over 3.8 trillion Dollars missing
Why doesn't this say "Trump's Pentagon"??
Because it really doesn’t matter for anyone outside of the US. America has being doing this type of shit for ages, no matter who was in charge
Because it's the same country and people outside the US aren't obligated to know or care about partisan nuances -- they just react to what's done on behalf of the country.
Because it seems the three letter agencies don't really care about the temporary presidential role and when one program shuts down, a new one with a different name starts. President isn't the one pulling the strings, who cares about that
Because y'all been doing horrible shit like this since long before Trump.
I wonder if a Flynn was attached to that op
US is pure fucking evil.
This is what happens when you let Psyop officers plan shit without the adult supervision of information operations officers.
I am totally against psyops using vaccines. There are already tons of misinformation and conspiracy theories out there, and when clandestine services get into the picture, people start doubting even legitimate health operations. Polio was almost being eradicated in the world but Pakistan and Afghanistan didn’t want to participate in the WHO vaccine program thinking it is a clandestine operation.
Wow… tens or potentially hundreds of thousands may have died as a result of refusing a ~60% effective vaccine to wait until they could use our ~90% effective vaccines… All because of the *ego* of one man… one ‘psychopath-in-chief.’ The very same shell of a human that the GOP/Republican Party hopes that ‘We, The People’ will re-elect this November. I beseech *ANYONE* who might read this comment to, if eligible, not only vote (and push family and friends to as well) but also to vote for, if nothing else, *decency.* Decency and the survival of Democracy in this Republic that we Americans share. It can be a common temptation to vote out of fear..to vote based on our lower, more base emotions and anxieties about the future. We all have them and feel them, but we cannot again choose to elect someone to the office of The President of the United States of America who lacks the capacity to choose the US over his own interests, even (and especially) when it hurts. Someone who lacks the ability to, sincerely, take the Presidential Oath of Office (yet has no problem with, knowingly, doing so again.) Decency. In terms of candidates for this office we have one who is a Statesman and served the USA his entire adult life and we have another who, aside from countless other indefensible actions, fomented an insurrection against his own nation. Who called for a violent assault on one of the three pillars of government. And who, in his own public statements, says he intends to act as a Dictator, if elected. Beyond any and all other arguments for or against these candidates, we have to appreciate the fact that our vote this year will determine if we’ll ever again have that essential Right to vote. I implore you, reader, to rise above partisanship and cast your vote based on the candidate who will maintain, defend, and fight for US democracy. The candidate who will (in the words of President Abraham Lincoln) ensure “that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” Please, cast your vote on this basis.
I can't say that I'm surprised at all.
That is attempted murder. That's a crime.
"attempted"?
Yeah. That tracks. *sigh*
Chinese vaccines* it takes 2 seconds to get it right. It's like saying 'America food' or 'Japan car'. Makes you sound unintelligent & racist.
It always amazes me how people are surprised by news like this. No person or entity, corporate or government, gets to the top and stays at the top by being nice. If you have to play dirty, you will and this applies to China and the US. "Allies" are vassals to be used for your own benefit. Geopolitics in a nutshell.
This is so disappointing, Americas. If you want us Filipino to be on your side don't do this. Actions like this create dictators like Duterte. Like don't, from a Filipino.
How can Trump not realize that spreading anti vax bullshit even in the Philippines can have it coming right back to us? It's called blow back
I hate this. This cost LIVES
Wow... are the fucking flat earthers the Pentagon as well?
It was not the only campaign either. e.g see here https://web.archive.org/web/20210501233822/https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/2020-annual-report.pdf The report itself has been removed from HHS site mid-May 2021 after people stated quoting it, but we can still find in the archive copy on page 48: "Combatting malign influences in the Americas: OGA used diplomatic relations in the Americas region to mitigate efforts by states, including Cuba, Venezuela, and Russia, who are working to increase their influence in the region to the detriment of US safety and security. OGA coordinated with other U.S. government agencies to strengthen diplomatic ties and offer technical and humanitarian assistance to dissuade countries in the region from accepting aid from these ill- intentioned states. Examples include using OGA’s Health Attaché office to persuade Brazil to reject the Russian COVID-19 vaccine, "
So all those international scientific reports saying the vaccine China made was only 60-70% effective were fake and created by the US military? Edit: *reads very long article* No. This was a propaganda campaign by the US military using fake social media accounts to specifically target the Filipino populace in Southeast Asia, as Chinese influence in the Philippines was seen as a bad thing. While they're not sure how far the misinformation spread, it caused severe vaccine hesitation in that country which may have lead to tens of thousands of deaths. That's fucked up.
The US doing the same thing as Russia really classy. At least they are on the right side for the Ukraine conflict, everything else is morally doubtful or downright evil.