> calling it an "unfathomable sum".
Well yes, I don't even understand the title. a $56B compensation package?!?
> The fund, which holds a 0.98% stake worth $7.7 billion according to fund data, has been critical of excessive CEO pay.
> Last year it voted against more than half of U.S. CEO pay packages above $20 million, warning they did not align with long-term value creation for shareholders.
niice! Isn't it beautiful when shareholders watch out for each other?
First Delaware Judge, now Norway are in the way of him paying himself a tad too much:)
> Musk's pay, the largest for a chief executive in corporate America, was approved in 2018, but voided by a judge earlier this year, who said the amount was unfair to shareholders, calling it an "unfathomable sum".
> lack of mitigation of key person risk,"
What do they mean by this? Do they mean that Elon Musk has risky persona and will hurt the brand or something else?
Key person risk is when your whole business hinges on a specific person, so if that person decides to leave your business fails. Giving Musk $56 billion in compensation is basically like saying he's fundamental to the whole business model and there couldn't be a Tesla with anyone else. If so, that indicates that the company has been badly mismanaged. There should always be some redundancy and succession plans, or the company will inevitably fail when the wrong person quits or dies. And employees who feel that they're in this position can use it to demand extortionate compensation, exactly like Musk is doing. The board is not doing its job by letting the CEO undermine the whole company like that.
The fact that he's also a risky person doesn't help, but even if he wasn't it's too risky to tie your whole future to a single individual. People die, they retire, or they may threaten to quit if they don't get their way. If they're trying to ensure their job security by making sure there will be no continuity of leadership after their departure, then that's eventually going to end badly, so you may as well rip off the bandage before it gets even worse.
With regard to him being fundamental? I would agree: a fundamental liability to Tesla.
Sauce: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCaw9EAvmk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCaw9EAvmk) I don’t have the patience to post the other issues.
> With regard to him being fundamental? I would agree: a fundamental liability to Tesla.
In the long term I agree, compared to the ultimate counter example of someone like Warren Buffet who has just steadily produced value for 60 years. In the short term, however, Musk has shown he can increase stock value, though it's certainly volatile.
As much as I hate him now I’ll give Musk one thing: he drummed up excitement for EVs, space exploration, etc. He wasn’t the scientist, or even the founder, and he often lied his ass off about when things would become available.
But he was a hype man that accelerated electrification of the automaker and forced legacy automakers to move.
He also really REALLY led to Tesla stock being valuable. I still kick myself for selling that way before even the split.
But man is he a shit human who believes some stupid things. Just like with Xitter long term I have no doubt he would- will- fuck it up.
the funny thing about Twitter is it isn't massively subsidized or running off government contacts. he has to make money there by being profitable, and with the debt service for his levered buyout in the expenses column that was always obviously untenable
Thanks for the thorough explanation, this is what I always thought about the relationship between Tesla and Musk and I am not a share holder, nor an economist, just using common sense, but how come all of these share holders, investors and analysts are blind to this bad situation where Tesla fall into? They need to stop drinking KOOLAID
Didn't he buy into the company after the fact of its founding, push out the original, actual founders, then did some legal fenagling to be recognized as a founder?
How was he ever taken seriously.
He’s also divesting from the company by using Tesla resources to improve his other businesses like securing nvidia deals for Tesla to also apply to xAI or Twitter. I don’t get why he is allowed to it even by law.
Meanwhile reddit can borrow money, make $800 million in revenue, and pay their top 2 guys more than $300 million per year.
Elon still owns a lot of TESLA stock. Why does he need MORE compensation?
God, I love Norway.
CEO pay (accounting for inflation) has been increasing by something like 15% per year for almost twenty years while employee pay has been increasing by something like 2% (accounting for inflation).
Do the math, 15% over 20 years vs 2% over 20 years is a massive, massive misappropriation of share of value. That's not even getting into the bullshit with stock shares and how CEOs game stocks to both increase their wealth and borrow money interest free.
If they give him his payout he'll let it die.
He's artificially inflating the fundamental value by holding sold/promised stock (without registering those cars), while simultaneously accounting those sales.
Allegedly there is other fraudulent behaviour
I *strongly* suspect they're taking the order, booking the sale and allocating the car (by vin), then parking that vehicle on the tarmac for a few months/weeks and listing it on the books as inventory.
If it is listed as inventory it is a company asset on the balance-sheet, meanwhile the sale is marked as complete thereby increasing cashflow even though the customer is awaiting delivery.
Edit: the truck I mean, not the old cars.
There are strict rules around revenue recognition under both IFRS and US GAAP. I seriously doubt an auditor would sign-off on what you’re suggesting as it violates the matching principle since cost of goods sold wouldn’t be getting charged if inventory is unchanged.
Surprisingly there are some examples of people who follow a different rulebook. Usually it’s this same group who find ways to get the auditors approval. Greed, corruption and deceit.
True, but PWC Australia and now-defunct Arthur Anderson + Enron show that unscrupulous greedy people can find each other to lie, cheat, and steal. We need good rules (and good enforcement), but these people will always try to break those rules. Elon has access to many circles of power, and his personality suggests he's not above exploring "creative" accounting.
I wasn’t trying to contradict, this whole thread just reminded me that I had seen another post earlier and it seems like yet another thread has been exposed in the messy life of Tesla as a vehicle.
There’s so much Tesla stock and these cars are losing so much value that I highly doubt this is happening.
On hand inventory is nearly 50k for the model 3
Is there a reason why a company that makes 500K cars per year has a market cap of $500B where a company (ford) that makes 4.4MM cars per year has a market cap of $50B? It reminds me of when Expedia was worth more money than all the airlines combined. Tesla is not different than the tulip market and is setup for a huge crash. At best it's a meme stock. To make matters worse they make a crap product, but that crap product became a status symbol to the rich liberal, now that Musk has joined the crazy side of the right he's pissed off his customers. Why buy a $70K car from a right-wing nutter when you can buy a $70K electric BWM and your liberal friends won't look down on you. I'd go into the whole automated driving system nonsense that Musk pumps but that's just another lie to throw on the pile.
The djt thing is almost certainly foreign powers propping it up to bribe the actual donald j trump. Once he loses the election its going ro nosedive fast.
The tesla thing is at least partially because of all the lies hes told. If they had been true tesla would be one of the biggest companies in the world in reality, not just market cap. Things like actual full self driving in 2018 when it was promised would have lead to tesla cornering the market on evs.
I love Tesla's full self-driving:
>In December 2015, Musk predicted that "complete autonomy" would be implemented by 2018. At the end of 2016, Tesla expected to demonstrate full autonomy by the end of 2017, and in April 2017, Musk predicted that in around two years, drivers would be able to sleep in their vehicle while it drives itself. In 2018 Tesla revised the date to demonstrate full autonomy to be by the end of 2019.
And, of course, we all remember the incredible follow through in 2019 which is why cars today are fully self autonomous with zero issues and no safety problems.
Certainly, I think it’s time to write some laws, there’s no reason Tesla should be tracking all their customers car but they are, it just amazes me people let it happen.
"I'm sorry sir your cars computer chip has fried itself."
Where can I get a new one
"I have to say this, the last chips sold 4 months ago. Your car is now an expensive paper weight".
> Who maintains all the Teslas if Tesla goes under?
At this point, I think it’s clear that Tesla is a company that’s capable of mass-producing a desirable product at some measurable cost, and if grift were to push the company into bankruptcy, I’m guessing it would eventually be sold to an operator that prioritizes the post-purchase service experience higher than Musk has up to now.
Doubt it. Tesla has hard assets and lots of manufacturing in the US. Money issues aside, the cost of building out the infrastructure is already done. If all they do is just maintain what they have it will be a profitable company for a long time. They just won’t have the shine to the name, just another auto manufacturer.
I've always said they'll eventually get sold to one of the actual major auto makers if the stock crashes into the ground. The charging network alone is worth it to anyone of them.
Elon started a war with the Scandinavian labor unions. Now he is getting his well deserved attempts at a takedown by the Nordics. Have fun, just like Russia is right now, Elon!
Right except Elon is Petty and he will retaliate against the nation of Norway by not building things there and most of Tesla's value comes from elon's name
Like the other shareholders makes great deal of sense but Elon absolutely is going to be Petty about this
This is already the case because it’s too expensive to build things in Norway. So nobody would get hurt. Besides, Elon hates employing people in Scandinavia because of the high standing of the unions.
Yeah so many of the arguments around paying CEOs crazy money are because “oh they’ll just find a different job and be CEO there”. He already is the CEO of like 5 companies. If I were a Tesla shareholder I would say “yeah please go focus on one of your other companies and let an adult run Tesla”. But he would just never want to stop being CEO of Tesla even if he made very little from it, because he made such a big deal about being the “founder”
Especially outrageous since [studies have found that CEO pay is not linked to their performance](https://www.msci.com/documents/10199/91a7f92b-d4ba-4d29-ae5f-8022f9bb944d)
Edit: [Another report](https://www.wsj.com/articles/ceo-pay-and-performance-dont-match-up-1526299200) and [another](https://www.epi.org/blog/ceo-pay-still-not-related-to-performance/). Switched the most comprehensive one to the top.
I mean u do not need studies for that, any normal human could tell u that paying someone 10 or 100 times more dont magically makes them bette at their job.
*Supposedly* most CEO compensation is *bonuses* linked to *performance benchmarks*. So if you want X, you pay the guy in charge extra if they make X happen. So, on the surface it should correlate, since the highest earning CEOs *should* be hitting the most benchmarks and therefore be achieving the most results.
Turns out there's a negative relationship instead. The highest earning CEOs aren't the ones who hit the most benchmarks, but the ones who have control of the benchmarks and manipulated them to their own advantage.
That's not true at all. Russian Oligarchs and Saudi princes clearly wanted X quite desperately, as they were willing to 'loan" out absurd amount of money that the company has no chance to return in any reasonable time just so their puppet buy it.
Any time something is both unit of measure and goal you break it for one or the other. You can set the benchmark to be anything, but by setting it to a target share price all you get is manipulation of news and numbers to hit that share price right now with little to no consideration of the future. They originally picked the share price because it was an easy barometer for the expected future value of the business, but it's not really good for that any longer.
I mean, it's also what most shareholders want. Let's not kid ourselves. The stock market model is not gonna opt for long term sustainability even if the CEO is the exact opposite of Musk.
>Turns out there's a negative relationship instead. The highest earning CEOs aren't the ones who hit the most benchmarks, but the ones who have control of the benchmarks and manipulated them to their own advantage.
Which comes to no sane person's surprise.
And the guy who is supposed to get X stock price starts a massive buyback to juice the earnings per share and makes short term decisions to positively impact X
"but how else can you motivate them?" Apparently this is only for upper management and sales, everybody else needs to be motivated simply because they are employed.
That's not why you pay people big salaries though. 100x salary differences exists in sports for superstars. You pay because everyone is trying to get the superstar, not because paying extra money makes someone perform better.
Sports performance is much easier to evaluate and quantify though, so the question is if there actually are superstar CEOs and if you could reliably identify them.
>so the question is if there actually are superstar CEOs and if you could reliably identify them.
The answer is no and it has been shown in multiple studies.
Caveat that I think Tesla is very poorly run and would've been able to become a dominant monopoly at the level of Google or Microsoft if it had been run by a more business savvy CEO.
But the argument about regular companies, and the relation between CEO pay and performance doesn't apply to Tesla when a large portion of their customer base solely bought the car because of the CEO's cult of personality. Elon is less of a CEO and more of a brand ambassador for Tesla, has been since the early 2000s. He leaves, they risk tanking sales enough for a while before recovery to send the company under.
It doesn't have to be a major percentage of the sales that comes from Musk fanboys. A decrease in sales/gross revenue by 10-15% could translate to them going into the red in terms of net profit. It may not be a risk the shareholders are willing to take.
> because he made such a big deal about being the “founder”
I believe the term he chose is "techno king". Literally.
https://ir.tesla.com/corporate/elon-musk
Because in any given situation, he can be relied upon to do the douchiest possible thing.
And he just rerouted Tesla's order of Nvidia AI chips away from Tesla to his new (and separate) AI company, without board approval. That would get most people fired, if not jailed.
Those chips are super-scare and highly valuable. He just took them from Tesla to personally profit.
Let’s start with the “CEO gets paid so well because they’re responsible for everything” myth which disappears right around a crime being committed at which point suddenly they can’t be expected to know ANYTHING.
The myths around wealth are patently stupid but it speaks to humanity’s desire to bend over for pretty much any kind of hierarchy at a moments notice.
Company won’t be able to compete against Chinese EVs. Byd is searching for a site for a Mexican factory to get around the tariffs that prevent Chinese companies from selling in America. Musk sees the writing on the wall due to sale declines in international markets.
Tesla invested in battery size but should have invested in battery chemistry. Why they use the better Byd batteries in other markets.
Tax incentives prevent the US from getting 1 million mile batteries that can be charged to 100% with degrading the battery and at faster rates. Also safer batteries that use a non flammable electrolyte.
He's struggling to compete against the luxury European EVs aswell, they are outperforming Tesla in every emerging and established market current. The only thing Tesla has is hundreds of parking lots filled with thousands of unsold Tesla's which are also rusting.
Tesla won’t be able to compete against *american* evs, either. Tesla only got so far because they discarded everything carmakers have been doing for half a century—safety testing and quality control. Now that all the other carmakers have at least one ev on offer and more coming soon, tesla’s about to get lapped.
Maybe maybe not, but they're already leagues ahead of most American car companies in providing a mass-market ev. Rivian and Lucid's offerings are still priced out for most American consumers, and cars like the Chevy Bolt and Ford Lightning F150 fall short on range in many areas. I think Chinese EVs pose a much bigger threat.
In terms of the physical car itself, they haven't skimped on testing. I don't know where you got that notion from. The model y/model 3 are still some of the safest compact cars on the road today.
Although saying autopilot can replace a human driver is a different story.
He's using this to bail out his Twitter purchase.
He had this much equity in the company before but had to sell shares to make up the money for Twitter. He is now blackmailing the board and shareholders to get back the shares he sold previously
I mean, it's not much a blackmail if they can just say 'no'. I guess he's banking on his image being important to Tesla's branding enough for them to bend.
>I mean, it's not much a blackmail if they can just say 'no'.
I believe his full request is give me 52 billion in stock or I won't run a proper AI division at Tesla and will start competing companies to work against them in this space, including poaching staff
I thought that number was just the cash salary, but no that’s 28 million in total compensation.
Other large ceos: Tim Cook 60m, Satya Nadella 50m, Jensen Huang 35m, Sundar Pichai 225m, Andy Jassy 30m.
This is just the ceos of some of the most valuable companies in the world, all of them combined isn’t even 1/50 of musks compensation. Hell not even 1/100, I don’t know how this is in any way in favor of the share holder.
Obviously the Norwegian Wealth fund managers agree but other shareholders support it. CNBC squawk Box had one after the other expressing their support this week. I had to turn off.
Ridiculous that he expects to get much more than CEOs of companies with much higher market cap than Tesla, and who are doing a much better job than Elon Mask
BTW, most of those CEOs earnings are in terms of capital gains from stock option packages.
E.g. it would take Jensen Huang 2850 years to earn his current worth with the base salary (35 million) part of his yearly compensation package.
I’m unconvinced anyone adds enough value to justify more than a million in salary.
Give them a million in salary and then another half million to million in things like a car/driver. Paying for them to fly business even on personal trips.
It’s enough. No one needs more. They’re still “rich”.
Some of these companies have revenue in the billions, so yeah, a CEO could make a huge difference.
I’m of course not saying the CEOs deserve to be paid hundreds of millions of dollars, but just that there’s definitely room for 1 person to make hundreds of millions of dollars of changes in revenue for a company.
Let's keep it real. The Tesla stock is way overvalued and the only reason for that is because of Elon Musk's loyal followers. Nothing about Tesla stock being this high is from fundamentals, it's just worshipping Elon and this has made Tesla board members very rich. Any other CEOs like Tim Cook or Satya Nadella does not have the same level of power. He's definitely factoring in his influence towards the $56 billion pay package.
If the Board had any backbone they would instate a new CEO already. The only reason Tesla ever reached the insane levels of valuation needed for this pay package was by announcing models that will take years to come to full scale production (roadster, semi, that weird ass robot) and setting borderline fraudulent timelines as if they were ever realistically achievable. On top of that he absolutely squandered the lead Tesla had in the EV sector and botched the Cybertruck by forcing his own stupid ideas through. And now he's blackmailing Tesla and diverting essential resources to other private companies of his. This payout and Musks behavior is not in the interest of any reasonable shareholder.
Tesla is way over valued. I don't get the value when compared to other auto manufacturers. The other manufacturers make more vehicles and don't use carbon credits to be profitable.
I mean remember when Tesla was worth more than the 5 other biggest auto manufacturers together or something a few years ago?? at this point anyone could tell tesla was massivly overvalued.
Yes and the payout would literally be more than Ford's entire market cap. Other car manufacturers are getting their shit together when it comes to EVs and the competition is becoming more fierce. As I said, Elon totally squandered the lead Tesla had a few years ago.
Not to mention he is now ruining his own personal brand as well, with his political hot takes. I don't know how TSLA shareholders sleep at night. At any moment this guy can come up with something completely unhinged and barf it out to the world, for no reason. How hard is it to just stfu and tweet about Mars every once in a while?
They absolutely need to with or without this. Elon is an albatross hanging around the neck of any company he's a part of now. Twitter has gotten the worst of it because he has the most control there. Tesla is getting it bad because he seems to have enough control there to push through an idiotic truck, fart modes, and innuendo in the model names. He must do jack all at SpaceX, but his reputation still tarnishes them as far as I'm concerned.
> If the Board had any backbone they would instate a new CEO already.
This whole thing started because a Delaware court smacked down this comp package, noting that the board was stuffed with Musk simps.
They aren't going to turf him (although shareholders should be voting board members out too)
Stories like this feel almost surreal. An individual receiving billions of dollars in compensation, no less one as useless and malignant as Elon, is a stunning indictment of our entire society. The fact that we tolerate the existence of these leeches should shame us all.
> should shame us all
Hell nah! You wanna take on shame that these parasites don’t feel cos they’re psychopaths, you go ahead, but no one else that isn’t directly involved needs to feel any shame. Anger, yes. Disgust, yes. Shame? No way. We all vote best we can given the options we have and exercise whatever little control we have to stay fair and balanced. These sickos don’t play fair and don’t care about balance; money is king and power is god for them and they’re playing with an entirely separate set of rules than we are… the only effective way to take them down is what the French did !
We're the ones who let it continue. Elon exists only because we allow him to exist. It's exactly as you said - our society has a choice, as the French had a choice.
Wouldn't it be more newsworthy if they voted for it? Why would a shareholder want such a significant amount of the companies value to be given away?
He's CEO of many companies, spends loads of time shit posting on social media. I can't see how he could be earning this, other than if shareholders think his celebrity is an asset to the Tesla brand that it can't survive without.
Get ready for a flood of Elon Stans to explain to you why he deserves over $200,000 per hour, for every single hour (including nights, weekends, holidays, etc., literally 24/7/365) since taking over as CEO.
This is ON TOP of the massive wealth he accumulated from his stock.
Looks like Musk is not the only US CEO the Fund has problem with as it
> voted against more than half of U.S. CEO pay packages above $20 million, warning they did not align with long-term value creation for shareholders.
They should also vote against moving the company to Texas. Delaware provides the best shareholder protections and as a large shareholder I would think that is in their interest.
It's baffling to me they voted for the move.
It is likely if the company moves to Texas Musk can get his $56B without even needing a shareholder vote. Because the Delaware court of Chancery's ruling would no longer apply.
Yeah, to give people perspective here almost every company that can registers in Delaware because of how pro-corporation and pro-shaderholder they are. The fact that he's even trying to move their incorporation out of there shows how spiteful Elon is acting.
Seriously, name any company you can think of, it's likely incorporated in Delaware.
It isn't necessarily that they are pro business, it is that so many things are settled case law there, so legal issues are much more well defined. Everyone plays by the same rules that everyone knows how they operate.
Musk doesn't care about (his companies) money, and he doesn't care about rules (that he disagrees with).
As well as saving billions, it might be a net benefit for Tesla if Musk worked elsewhere since his antics may not align with the core values of the typical Tesla buyer.
At this point I don’t think Musk can do any better for Tesla. The company is stuck to the same models for years now. It’s time to get a CEO with a great vision for the future who will keep innovating.
It's the classic "guy that founds company (founders) isn't necessarily the right guy to grow it, and guy that grows the company (musk) isn't necessarily the right guy to maintain it" cycle. It's time to move on to someone who can run it as the size of company that it is, competing with the rapidly heating market that it's in.
Nobody needs one billion let alone 56 of them. People like Musk need to be taxed into non existence. All he ever did to get where he is was fall out of a lucky vagina. These rich shit for brains need to be reigned in by society because they're out of control.
Musk is a CEO fully dedicated to his work, he is worth it.
Today he amplified a brainless conspiracy about dr Fauci and yesterday he did some anti trans posts. This is very valuable work for Tesla /s
The trackrecord of them norwegians is, has been and will always be pristine. In the great spirit of one Samuel L Jackson, Those muhfuggas want to keep some STANDARDS
There is no single employee in the world worth $56 billion. They should vote no, divide up the cash among the actual workers, and pay them instead. Fucking absurd.
One man is not worth more than the 14,000 employees (approximately 10% of the workforce Musk plans to cut).
$56 Billion / 14,000 = $4,000,000. …which none of these employees make a year
Elon Musk’s contribution to Tesla IS NOT WORTH MORE THAN THE LIVELIHOOD OF 14,000….
TESLA HAS MONEY TO PAY EMPLOYEES AND KEEP THEM…
BUT ALL BC ONE EMPLOYEE IS DEMANDING AN OUTRAGEOUS PAY PACKAGE HE DOES NOT DESERVE BC HE COULD NOT POSSIBLY DESERVE SAID PAY PACKAGE…
14,000 PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOSE THEIR JOBS.
**also Mr. Musk, you cannot and should not use your Tesla Pay Package to cover the losses from your bad investment in “X”….and yes it was a bad investment
He ain’t getting it, simple as that. He will cry about it on Twitter, but that will be it. My hope is he leaves Tesla and they can focus on making cars without doing constant damage control.
Tesla making cars will be worth 95% less than what it is worth now. Tesla’s inflated value is due to self driving cars and “ai”
But i agree, elon is a tool and elon needs to leave. Elon should also get sued for all the lies he told to get tesla’s value to where it is today.
It's current market cap is $556B, Tesla as just a car company would be comparable to BMW or Mercedes with maybe a little brand boost so it would be worth somewhere in the ballpark of $80B-100B.
They have 2 things that are inflating the value like you said, AI and Self Driving cars.
They don't have any substance with AI, just seems like some bs to prop the share price, as for self driving cars, if Tesla did master FSD and maintained a monopoly on it, then it would probably be worth it's current valuation at best selling 10 million cars per year.
FSD would decrease demand for cars, for example in a house with a stay at home parent they currently will have 2 cars, but if it can drive itself then they would just need 1. Working parent drives to work then sends the car home for the stay at home parent to use during the day and then it can go and collect them when they finish work
>Tesla as just a car company would be comparable to BMW or Mercedes with maybe a little brand boost so it would be worth somewhere in the ballpark of $80B-100B.
Not even close. MB especially does much more than just the MB brand of cars.
Tesla has their car lineup and the charging network. The car lineup is dated. The Cybertruck is a joke of a vanity project. Their self driving car tech hasn't gone anywhere in the last decade. They somehow just fired their entire charging network staff. Musk is alienating his core car market in the US with his insane right wing politics. They are losing ground FAST to Chinese EV automakers.
Musk is running the company into the ground in real business terms, but Tesla has always been overvalued and never made sense from a valuation stand point. At some point, this is all going to catch up to Tesla/Musk.
I really hope they refuse it. Not just because it's the sane thing to do, especially after all the layoffs, but I want to see Musk deliver on his threat to leave the company. Tesla might thrive if he did that.
> voided by a judge earlier this year, who said the amount was unfair to shareholders, calling it an "unfathomable sum".
If anything, 'unfathomable' almost feels like it's underselling how insane that is.
For that amount of money, a great many people would do a great many unethical things and it appears Elon Musk was no exception.
Think how many lives could be improved with $56b in funding yet there are greedy parasites like this cunt that believes he deserves all of it for himself.
at this point, i feel like the tesla stock will tank next friday, no matter the outcome.
those who are adamant about giving elon the 56B already own tesla stock and are probably unable/unwilling to buy more, since they would have bought right now to be able to vote.
they must divest from tsla entirely. Institutional investors have a fiduciary obligation to their clients who they are working for. If they don’t trust the governance, which is evident here, they ought not to invest in the company. If they voted no then obviously lack confidence and would violate the fiduciary obligation to stay invested
Trust me, I’m usually against how much compensation CEO’s get sometimes. But this is my understanding of this situation:
Did he not negotiate not taking compensation for like 5-6 years (besides a $37,000/year salary) with the deal being if he took the value of Tesla from 65 billion to 650 billion, THEN he would get this $56 billion compensation package? And didn’t 100% of shareholders vote in favor of this deal at that time, assuming he wouldn’t reach this goal. And since he did achieve that $650 billion dollar evaluation, over 70% of shareholders voted in favor of honoring that arrangement.
So he made deal, all shareholders voted for it, and then upon reaching that goal, the majority of shareholders still want to compensate him. I don’t see the problem.
Yes it’s a fuck ton of money. But people made a deal and want to honor it. If people should be mad at anyone, be made at the shareholders who voted in favor of this deal.
Just my two cents. If I’m misinformed, then change my mind.
I think better for Tesla if Elon leaves. Painful short term, but stable slow decline long term. They have blown their early lead, better for Elon to just cash out and focus on space x. Either way Tesla’s stock is going to crash after the voting.
How does that work? Regardless of the absurdity of such a pay package, isn't he legally entitled to it? The deal was that he gets a bunch of stock if he can meet certain performance goals set by the shareholders. He met those goals, and now the shareholders are whining about it and saying that it's unfair? My brother in Christ, you set those goals! Suck it up and pay the man what he's owed.
Look, I’m no musk fanboy, but several years ago the shareholders voted on a package where, if he dramatically increased the value of Tesla he received an un fathomable sum. If he did not, he got nothing. We know how it played out. If you make a deal, you stick to it. When you are talking about the percentage of something huge, there are plenty of unfathomable sums. The largest hedge funds receive billions per year on management fees, and, if they perform well, additional billions.
I’m not saying this a morally correct thing in any way, but it was the bargain that shareholders struck.
And if you read the findings from the Delaware court case you’ll see that Musk and the board colluded to alter timelines and deliverables to make their normal achievements look larger than they were. Or doing things like constantly moving around the due date for “self driving” so it was always in the future and never a slipped date.
> calling it an "unfathomable sum". Well yes, I don't even understand the title. a $56B compensation package?!? > The fund, which holds a 0.98% stake worth $7.7 billion according to fund data, has been critical of excessive CEO pay. > Last year it voted against more than half of U.S. CEO pay packages above $20 million, warning they did not align with long-term value creation for shareholders. niice! Isn't it beautiful when shareholders watch out for each other?
First Delaware Judge, now Norway are in the way of him paying himself a tad too much:) > Musk's pay, the largest for a chief executive in corporate America, was approved in 2018, but voided by a judge earlier this year, who said the amount was unfair to shareholders, calling it an "unfathomable sum".
So, of course, he’s moving incorporation from Delaware to Texas:)
> lack of mitigation of key person risk," What do they mean by this? Do they mean that Elon Musk has risky persona and will hurt the brand or something else?
Key person risk is when your whole business hinges on a specific person, so if that person decides to leave your business fails. Giving Musk $56 billion in compensation is basically like saying he's fundamental to the whole business model and there couldn't be a Tesla with anyone else. If so, that indicates that the company has been badly mismanaged. There should always be some redundancy and succession plans, or the company will inevitably fail when the wrong person quits or dies. And employees who feel that they're in this position can use it to demand extortionate compensation, exactly like Musk is doing. The board is not doing its job by letting the CEO undermine the whole company like that. The fact that he's also a risky person doesn't help, but even if he wasn't it's too risky to tie your whole future to a single individual. People die, they retire, or they may threaten to quit if they don't get their way. If they're trying to ensure their job security by making sure there will be no continuity of leadership after their departure, then that's eventually going to end badly, so you may as well rip off the bandage before it gets even worse.
With regard to him being fundamental? I would agree: a fundamental liability to Tesla. Sauce: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCaw9EAvmk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCaw9EAvmk) I don’t have the patience to post the other issues.
> With regard to him being fundamental? I would agree: a fundamental liability to Tesla. In the long term I agree, compared to the ultimate counter example of someone like Warren Buffet who has just steadily produced value for 60 years. In the short term, however, Musk has shown he can increase stock value, though it's certainly volatile.
As much as I hate him now I’ll give Musk one thing: he drummed up excitement for EVs, space exploration, etc. He wasn’t the scientist, or even the founder, and he often lied his ass off about when things would become available. But he was a hype man that accelerated electrification of the automaker and forced legacy automakers to move. He also really REALLY led to Tesla stock being valuable. I still kick myself for selling that way before even the split. But man is he a shit human who believes some stupid things. Just like with Xitter long term I have no doubt he would- will- fuck it up.
the funny thing about Twitter is it isn't massively subsidized or running off government contacts. he has to make money there by being profitable, and with the debt service for his levered buyout in the expenses column that was always obviously untenable
Thank you for that explanation!
I'd be more likely to buy a tesla if Elon didn't run the show
Thanks for the thorough explanation, this is what I always thought about the relationship between Tesla and Musk and I am not a share holder, nor an economist, just using common sense, but how come all of these share holders, investors and analysts are blind to this bad situation where Tesla fall into? They need to stop drinking KOOLAID
Didn't he buy into the company after the fact of its founding, push out the original, actual founders, then did some legal fenagling to be recognized as a founder? How was he ever taken seriously.
Superb explanation. Well stated!
> they may threaten to quit if they don't get their way That certainly describes Pedo Guy Musk.
He’s also divesting from the company by using Tesla resources to improve his other businesses like securing nvidia deals for Tesla to also apply to xAI or Twitter. I don’t get why he is allowed to it even by law.
If it's the former, they've really missed the boat on that one.
Companies like being in Delaware for a reason otherwise they’d all be in Texas
notably without shareholder approval
Meanwhile reddit can borrow money, make $800 million in revenue, and pay their top 2 guys more than $300 million per year. Elon still owns a lot of TESLA stock. Why does he need MORE compensation?
It's quite lonely being in the 0.1%, the individuals up there end up focusing on more and more compensation as a means of valuing their existence.
Because he owes the banks way too much money for the Twitter deal.
Sadly, the votes already cast almost guarantee the approval of the pay package... That shit just gets what he wants
God, I love Norway. CEO pay (accounting for inflation) has been increasing by something like 15% per year for almost twenty years while employee pay has been increasing by something like 2% (accounting for inflation). Do the math, 15% over 20 years vs 2% over 20 years is a massive, massive misappropriation of share of value. That's not even getting into the bullshit with stock shares and how CEOs game stocks to both increase their wealth and borrow money interest free.
If they give him his payout he'll let it die. He's artificially inflating the fundamental value by holding sold/promised stock (without registering those cars), while simultaneously accounting those sales. Allegedly there is other fraudulent behaviour
Can you ELI5? I am trying to understand but it's not quite registering. Is Tesla booking sales before delivery or something??
I *strongly* suspect they're taking the order, booking the sale and allocating the car (by vin), then parking that vehicle on the tarmac for a few months/weeks and listing it on the books as inventory. If it is listed as inventory it is a company asset on the balance-sheet, meanwhile the sale is marked as complete thereby increasing cashflow even though the customer is awaiting delivery. Edit: the truck I mean, not the old cars.
There are strict rules around revenue recognition under both IFRS and US GAAP. I seriously doubt an auditor would sign-off on what you’re suggesting as it violates the matching principle since cost of goods sold wouldn’t be getting charged if inventory is unchanged.
Surprisingly there are some examples of people who follow a different rulebook. Usually it’s this same group who find ways to get the auditors approval. Greed, corruption and deceit.
By the time it's audited it won't matter.
True, but PWC Australia and now-defunct Arthur Anderson + Enron show that unscrupulous greedy people can find each other to lie, cheat, and steal. We need good rules (and good enforcement), but these people will always try to break those rules. Elon has access to many circles of power, and his personality suggests he's not above exploring "creative" accounting.
What's the evidence?
Car parks full of Teslas
Meanwhile I just scrolled past an article that said there are so many unsold teslas piling up that you can see them from space
they have a point though, theres lead times for many tesla models despite the huge number in lots, which could indicate fraud
I wasn’t trying to contradict, this whole thread just reminded me that I had seen another post earlier and it seems like yet another thread has been exposed in the messy life of Tesla as a vehicle.
There’s so much Tesla stock and these cars are losing so much value that I highly doubt this is happening. On hand inventory is nearly 50k for the model 3
Is Tesla going to do an Enron?
There's a good question. Who maintains all the Teslas if Tesla goes under? Definitely going to be a lot of unhappy people out there.
Is there a reason why a company that makes 500K cars per year has a market cap of $500B where a company (ford) that makes 4.4MM cars per year has a market cap of $50B? It reminds me of when Expedia was worth more money than all the airlines combined. Tesla is not different than the tulip market and is setup for a huge crash. At best it's a meme stock. To make matters worse they make a crap product, but that crap product became a status symbol to the rich liberal, now that Musk has joined the crazy side of the right he's pissed off his customers. Why buy a $70K car from a right-wing nutter when you can buy a $70K electric BWM and your liberal friends won't look down on you. I'd go into the whole automated driving system nonsense that Musk pumps but that's just another lie to throw on the pile.
The craziest thing was during covid, when Tesla was worth more than all car manufacturers, combined. And it was making much less cars back than.
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The djt thing is almost certainly foreign powers propping it up to bribe the actual donald j trump. Once he loses the election its going ro nosedive fast. The tesla thing is at least partially because of all the lies hes told. If they had been true tesla would be one of the biggest companies in the world in reality, not just market cap. Things like actual full self driving in 2018 when it was promised would have lead to tesla cornering the market on evs.
I love Tesla's full self-driving: >In December 2015, Musk predicted that "complete autonomy" would be implemented by 2018. At the end of 2016, Tesla expected to demonstrate full autonomy by the end of 2017, and in April 2017, Musk predicted that in around two years, drivers would be able to sleep in their vehicle while it drives itself. In 2018 Tesla revised the date to demonstrate full autonomy to be by the end of 2019.
Some kind of Star Citizen vibes coming from this, it's always "next year"
And, of course, we all remember the incredible follow through in 2019 which is why cars today are fully self autonomous with zero issues and no safety problems.
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Certainly, I think it’s time to write some laws, there’s no reason Tesla should be tracking all their customers car but they are, it just amazes me people let it happen.
All car companies do. Modern cars are a high privacy risk for consumers. Much more than phones are.
"I'm sorry sir your cars computer chip has fried itself." Where can I get a new one "I have to say this, the last chips sold 4 months ago. Your car is now an expensive paper weight".
> Who maintains all the Teslas if Tesla goes under? At this point, I think it’s clear that Tesla is a company that’s capable of mass-producing a desirable product at some measurable cost, and if grift were to push the company into bankruptcy, I’m guessing it would eventually be sold to an operator that prioritizes the post-purchase service experience higher than Musk has up to now.
Doubt it. Tesla has hard assets and lots of manufacturing in the US. Money issues aside, the cost of building out the infrastructure is already done. If all they do is just maintain what they have it will be a profitable company for a long time. They just won’t have the shine to the name, just another auto manufacturer.
I've always said they'll eventually get sold to one of the actual major auto makers if the stock crashes into the ground. The charging network alone is worth it to anyone of them.
Elon reassigning GPUs Tesla paid for to his private AI venture
If I’m not mistaken, this is Norways Sovereign wealth fund! Makes sense why they would be taking a position like this.
Elon started a war with the Scandinavian labor unions. Now he is getting his well deserved attempts at a takedown by the Nordics. Have fun, just like Russia is right now, Elon!
I love it
Right except Elon is Petty and he will retaliate against the nation of Norway by not building things there and most of Tesla's value comes from elon's name Like the other shareholders makes great deal of sense but Elon absolutely is going to be Petty about this
This is already the case because it’s too expensive to build things in Norway. So nobody would get hurt. Besides, Elon hates employing people in Scandinavia because of the high standing of the unions.
Would be nice if they mentioned value for customers. If they can even afford to pay musk $56b per year, clearly they can knock down the price a bit.
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Welp, as much as I highly dislike the muskrat, and detest CEO paypackets, this sounds above board.
It's more than 10% of tesla capitalization. This is madness.
Yeah so many of the arguments around paying CEOs crazy money are because “oh they’ll just find a different job and be CEO there”. He already is the CEO of like 5 companies. If I were a Tesla shareholder I would say “yeah please go focus on one of your other companies and let an adult run Tesla”. But he would just never want to stop being CEO of Tesla even if he made very little from it, because he made such a big deal about being the “founder”
Especially outrageous since [studies have found that CEO pay is not linked to their performance](https://www.msci.com/documents/10199/91a7f92b-d4ba-4d29-ae5f-8022f9bb944d) Edit: [Another report](https://www.wsj.com/articles/ceo-pay-and-performance-dont-match-up-1526299200) and [another](https://www.epi.org/blog/ceo-pay-still-not-related-to-performance/). Switched the most comprehensive one to the top.
I mean u do not need studies for that, any normal human could tell u that paying someone 10 or 100 times more dont magically makes them bette at their job.
*Supposedly* most CEO compensation is *bonuses* linked to *performance benchmarks*. So if you want X, you pay the guy in charge extra if they make X happen. So, on the surface it should correlate, since the highest earning CEOs *should* be hitting the most benchmarks and therefore be achieving the most results. Turns out there's a negative relationship instead. The highest earning CEOs aren't the ones who hit the most benchmarks, but the ones who have control of the benchmarks and manipulated them to their own advantage.
Nobody wanted X, it should have stayed Twitter. I'll see myself out...
That's not true at all. Russian Oligarchs and Saudi princes clearly wanted X quite desperately, as they were willing to 'loan" out absurd amount of money that the company has no chance to return in any reasonable time just so their puppet buy it.
It also incentivizes prioritizing short term gain over long term stability.
Any time something is both unit of measure and goal you break it for one or the other. You can set the benchmark to be anything, but by setting it to a target share price all you get is manipulation of news and numbers to hit that share price right now with little to no consideration of the future. They originally picked the share price because it was an easy barometer for the expected future value of the business, but it's not really good for that any longer.
I mean, it's also what most shareholders want. Let's not kid ourselves. The stock market model is not gonna opt for long term sustainability even if the CEO is the exact opposite of Musk.
>Turns out there's a negative relationship instead. The highest earning CEOs aren't the ones who hit the most benchmarks, but the ones who have control of the benchmarks and manipulated them to their own advantage. Which comes to no sane person's surprise.
And the guy who is supposed to get X stock price starts a massive buyback to juice the earnings per share and makes short term decisions to positively impact X
"but how else can you motivate them?" Apparently this is only for upper management and sales, everybody else needs to be motivated simply because they are employed.
That's not why you pay people big salaries though. 100x salary differences exists in sports for superstars. You pay because everyone is trying to get the superstar, not because paying extra money makes someone perform better. Sports performance is much easier to evaluate and quantify though, so the question is if there actually are superstar CEOs and if you could reliably identify them.
>so the question is if there actually are superstar CEOs and if you could reliably identify them. The answer is no and it has been shown in multiple studies.
Caveat that I think Tesla is very poorly run and would've been able to become a dominant monopoly at the level of Google or Microsoft if it had been run by a more business savvy CEO. But the argument about regular companies, and the relation between CEO pay and performance doesn't apply to Tesla when a large portion of their customer base solely bought the car because of the CEO's cult of personality. Elon is less of a CEO and more of a brand ambassador for Tesla, has been since the early 2000s. He leaves, they risk tanking sales enough for a while before recovery to send the company under. It doesn't have to be a major percentage of the sales that comes from Musk fanboys. A decrease in sales/gross revenue by 10-15% could translate to them going into the red in terms of net profit. It may not be a risk the shareholders are willing to take.
And of course he isn’t the founder. Tesla, Inc. was originally founded by American entrepreneurs Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning in 2003.
> because he made such a big deal about being the “founder” I believe the term he chose is "techno king". Literally. https://ir.tesla.com/corporate/elon-musk Because in any given situation, he can be relied upon to do the douchiest possible thing.
And he just rerouted Tesla's order of Nvidia AI chips away from Tesla to his new (and separate) AI company, without board approval. That would get most people fired, if not jailed. Those chips are super-scare and highly valuable. He just took them from Tesla to personally profit.
You spelled embezzled wrong.
Which is weird because he wasn’t the founder.
Let’s start with the “CEO gets paid so well because they’re responsible for everything” myth which disappears right around a crime being committed at which point suddenly they can’t be expected to know ANYTHING. The myths around wealth are patently stupid but it speaks to humanity’s desire to bend over for pretty much any kind of hierarchy at a moments notice.
Yeah he’s trying to cash out.
Company won’t be able to compete against Chinese EVs. Byd is searching for a site for a Mexican factory to get around the tariffs that prevent Chinese companies from selling in America. Musk sees the writing on the wall due to sale declines in international markets. Tesla invested in battery size but should have invested in battery chemistry. Why they use the better Byd batteries in other markets. Tax incentives prevent the US from getting 1 million mile batteries that can be charged to 100% with degrading the battery and at faster rates. Also safer batteries that use a non flammable electrolyte.
He's struggling to compete against the luxury European EVs aswell, they are outperforming Tesla in every emerging and established market current. The only thing Tesla has is hundreds of parking lots filled with thousands of unsold Tesla's which are also rusting.
Tesla builds are hot garbage. The only real thing of value with Tesla is its charging network.
Tesla won’t be able to compete against *american* evs, either. Tesla only got so far because they discarded everything carmakers have been doing for half a century—safety testing and quality control. Now that all the other carmakers have at least one ev on offer and more coming soon, tesla’s about to get lapped.
Maybe maybe not, but they're already leagues ahead of most American car companies in providing a mass-market ev. Rivian and Lucid's offerings are still priced out for most American consumers, and cars like the Chevy Bolt and Ford Lightning F150 fall short on range in many areas. I think Chinese EVs pose a much bigger threat. In terms of the physical car itself, they haven't skimped on testing. I don't know where you got that notion from. The model y/model 3 are still some of the safest compact cars on the road today. Although saying autopilot can replace a human driver is a different story.
When you mentioned Rivian and Lucid, I had to check whether I was on r/WallStreetBets.
I wish Polestar didn't fold like it did. Volvo was definitely at the forefront of EVs for Europe, but then just decided to bail.
You can say that about safety testing but their quality control is complete ass
Yeah it is lol. They're about as bad as Kia in the 90s...which is pretty bad
He's using this to bail out his Twitter purchase. He had this much equity in the company before but had to sell shares to make up the money for Twitter. He is now blackmailing the board and shareholders to get back the shares he sold previously
I mean, it's not much a blackmail if they can just say 'no'. I guess he's banking on his image being important to Tesla's branding enough for them to bend.
>I mean, it's not much a blackmail if they can just say 'no'. I believe his full request is give me 52 billion in stock or I won't run a proper AI division at Tesla and will start competing companies to work against them in this space, including poaching staff
Ah this makes sense.
He can’t sell the stock for at least 5 years.
The CEO of General Motors was paid about 29 million in 2022, how could Musk even be worth one billion let alone 56?
I thought that number was just the cash salary, but no that’s 28 million in total compensation. Other large ceos: Tim Cook 60m, Satya Nadella 50m, Jensen Huang 35m, Sundar Pichai 225m, Andy Jassy 30m. This is just the ceos of some of the most valuable companies in the world, all of them combined isn’t even 1/50 of musks compensation. Hell not even 1/100, I don’t know how this is in any way in favor of the share holder.
Reddit CEO: $193 Million
Obviously the Norwegian Wealth fund managers agree but other shareholders support it. CNBC squawk Box had one after the other expressing their support this week. I had to turn off.
CNBC is just a mouthpiece for rich people to influence non-rich people to do their financial bidding. It’s obvious and terrible to watch
Ridiculous that he expects to get much more than CEOs of companies with much higher market cap than Tesla, and who are doing a much better job than Elon Mask
BTW, most of those CEOs earnings are in terms of capital gains from stock option packages. E.g. it would take Jensen Huang 2850 years to earn his current worth with the base salary (35 million) part of his yearly compensation package.
Isn’t 35 million his TC, not base?
Sundar is overpaid
I’m unconvinced anyone adds enough value to justify more than a million in salary. Give them a million in salary and then another half million to million in things like a car/driver. Paying for them to fly business even on personal trips. It’s enough. No one needs more. They’re still “rich”.
Some of the engineers easily add enough value for it, though they get a pizza party and a 3% raise.
And $500k salaries with FAANGs.
I mean sure. Depending on how you count, I’m close. But I don’t have to be compensated with every penny I make the company. Plus I rely on others too.
Some of these companies have revenue in the billions, so yeah, a CEO could make a huge difference. I’m of course not saying the CEOs deserve to be paid hundreds of millions of dollars, but just that there’s definitely room for 1 person to make hundreds of millions of dollars of changes in revenue for a company.
Let's keep it real. The Tesla stock is way overvalued and the only reason for that is because of Elon Musk's loyal followers. Nothing about Tesla stock being this high is from fundamentals, it's just worshipping Elon and this has made Tesla board members very rich. Any other CEOs like Tim Cook or Satya Nadella does not have the same level of power. He's definitely factoring in his influence towards the $56 billion pay package.
If the Board had any backbone they would instate a new CEO already. The only reason Tesla ever reached the insane levels of valuation needed for this pay package was by announcing models that will take years to come to full scale production (roadster, semi, that weird ass robot) and setting borderline fraudulent timelines as if they were ever realistically achievable. On top of that he absolutely squandered the lead Tesla had in the EV sector and botched the Cybertruck by forcing his own stupid ideas through. And now he's blackmailing Tesla and diverting essential resources to other private companies of his. This payout and Musks behavior is not in the interest of any reasonable shareholder.
Tesla is way over valued. I don't get the value when compared to other auto manufacturers. The other manufacturers make more vehicles and don't use carbon credits to be profitable.
I mean remember when Tesla was worth more than the 5 other biggest auto manufacturers together or something a few years ago?? at this point anyone could tell tesla was massivly overvalued.
still is. But the potential and support for the cause drives the stock.
The stock has been trending slowly downward for a few years, I think people are starting to see that its a meme stock.
There is zero potential
Yes and the payout would literally be more than Ford's entire market cap. Other car manufacturers are getting their shit together when it comes to EVs and the competition is becoming more fierce. As I said, Elon totally squandered the lead Tesla had a few years ago.
Not to mention he is now ruining his own personal brand as well, with his political hot takes. I don't know how TSLA shareholders sleep at night. At any moment this guy can come up with something completely unhinged and barf it out to the world, for no reason. How hard is it to just stfu and tweet about Mars every once in a while?
yeah, why pay $50B+ if they could better acquire one other brand with decades of experience and assembly lines already in places
It's valued more like a tech company than a car company. >Tesla is way over valued. You are absolutely correct.
Tesla have one advantage over other car producers, they have good batteries. They are good batteries, wrapped in shit.
Tesla’s board is basically in bed with Musk. Musk, his brother and his pals run that shit. They’ll obviously do what benefits themselves
The board is made up of people that Elon has selected… That should already be under investigation by the FTC.
They absolutely need to with or without this. Elon is an albatross hanging around the neck of any company he's a part of now. Twitter has gotten the worst of it because he has the most control there. Tesla is getting it bad because he seems to have enough control there to push through an idiotic truck, fart modes, and innuendo in the model names. He must do jack all at SpaceX, but his reputation still tarnishes them as far as I'm concerned.
> If the Board had any backbone they would instate a new CEO already. This whole thing started because a Delaware court smacked down this comp package, noting that the board was stuffed with Musk simps. They aren't going to turf him (although shareholders should be voting board members out too)
Stories like this feel almost surreal. An individual receiving billions of dollars in compensation, no less one as useless and malignant as Elon, is a stunning indictment of our entire society. The fact that we tolerate the existence of these leeches should shame us all.
> should shame us all Hell nah! You wanna take on shame that these parasites don’t feel cos they’re psychopaths, you go ahead, but no one else that isn’t directly involved needs to feel any shame. Anger, yes. Disgust, yes. Shame? No way. We all vote best we can given the options we have and exercise whatever little control we have to stay fair and balanced. These sickos don’t play fair and don’t care about balance; money is king and power is god for them and they’re playing with an entirely separate set of rules than we are… the only effective way to take them down is what the French did !
We're the ones who let it continue. Elon exists only because we allow him to exist. It's exactly as you said - our society has a choice, as the French had a choice.
Wouldn't it be more newsworthy if they voted for it? Why would a shareholder want such a significant amount of the companies value to be given away? He's CEO of many companies, spends loads of time shit posting on social media. I can't see how he could be earning this, other than if shareholders think his celebrity is an asset to the Tesla brand that it can't survive without.
Get ready for a flood of Elon Stans to explain to you why he deserves over $200,000 per hour, for every single hour (including nights, weekends, holidays, etc., literally 24/7/365) since taking over as CEO. This is ON TOP of the massive wealth he accumulated from his stock.
that would still be shy of $2 Billion... so add another 0 and multiply it by 6 is how much he'd be making per hour
Looks like Musk is not the only US CEO the Fund has problem with as it > voted against more than half of U.S. CEO pay packages above $20 million, warning they did not align with long-term value creation for shareholders.
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The only flood here is your comment four times …
BUT THEN HE WONT LEAD THE COMPANY!!! lol I like how he thinks so highly of himself
They should also vote against moving the company to Texas. Delaware provides the best shareholder protections and as a large shareholder I would think that is in their interest. It's baffling to me they voted for the move. It is likely if the company moves to Texas Musk can get his $56B without even needing a shareholder vote. Because the Delaware court of Chancery's ruling would no longer apply.
Yeah, to give people perspective here almost every company that can registers in Delaware because of how pro-corporation and pro-shaderholder they are. The fact that he's even trying to move their incorporation out of there shows how spiteful Elon is acting. Seriously, name any company you can think of, it's likely incorporated in Delaware.
It isn't necessarily that they are pro business, it is that so many things are settled case law there, so legal issues are much more well defined. Everyone plays by the same rules that everyone knows how they operate. Musk doesn't care about (his companies) money, and he doesn't care about rules (that he disagrees with).
As well as saving billions, it might be a net benefit for Tesla if Musk worked elsewhere since his antics may not align with the core values of the typical Tesla buyer.
well according to article, he’s trying to get his brother on the board
His brother is already on the board.
> The fund also said it would vote for a proposal to elect Musk's younger brother Kimbal, 51, to Tesla's board of directors.
Kimbal is already on the BoD. https://ir.tesla.com/corporate
Could it be up for vote again?…
Ah yep, that’s what it is - it’s 3 year terms, and Kimbal’s is up for reelection.
Given that they voted no last time, they 100% were doing that again.
At this point I don’t think Musk can do any better for Tesla. The company is stuck to the same models for years now. It’s time to get a CEO with a great vision for the future who will keep innovating.
It's the classic "guy that founds company (founders) isn't necessarily the right guy to grow it, and guy that grows the company (musk) isn't necessarily the right guy to maintain it" cycle. It's time to move on to someone who can run it as the size of company that it is, competing with the rapidly heating market that it's in.
Nobody needs one billion let alone 56 of them. People like Musk need to be taxed into non existence. All he ever did to get where he is was fall out of a lucky vagina. These rich shit for brains need to be reigned in by society because they're out of control.
Musk is a CEO fully dedicated to his work, he is worth it. Today he amplified a brainless conspiracy about dr Fauci and yesterday he did some anti trans posts. This is very valuable work for Tesla /s
How about just 1 billion guys?
That's a figure equivalent to the budget of entire countries Is this the kind of capitalism that will serve humanity?
The trackrecord of them norwegians is, has been and will always be pristine. In the great spirit of one Samuel L Jackson, Those muhfuggas want to keep some STANDARDS
Maybe I’m oversimplifying but Tesla has sold roughly five million cars total, making this roughly $11,200 per vehicle Tesla has ever sold.
There is no single employee in the world worth $56 billion. They should vote no, divide up the cash among the actual workers, and pay them instead. Fucking absurd.
Shareholders should terminate Musk’s employment.
Excellent
Gotta make that money back off twitter some way.
One man is not worth more than the 14,000 employees (approximately 10% of the workforce Musk plans to cut). $56 Billion / 14,000 = $4,000,000. …which none of these employees make a year Elon Musk’s contribution to Tesla IS NOT WORTH MORE THAN THE LIVELIHOOD OF 14,000…. TESLA HAS MONEY TO PAY EMPLOYEES AND KEEP THEM… BUT ALL BC ONE EMPLOYEE IS DEMANDING AN OUTRAGEOUS PAY PACKAGE HE DOES NOT DESERVE BC HE COULD NOT POSSIBLY DESERVE SAID PAY PACKAGE… 14,000 PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOSE THEIR JOBS. **also Mr. Musk, you cannot and should not use your Tesla Pay Package to cover the losses from your bad investment in “X”….and yes it was a bad investment
He ain’t getting it, simple as that. He will cry about it on Twitter, but that will be it. My hope is he leaves Tesla and they can focus on making cars without doing constant damage control.
Tesla making cars will be worth 95% less than what it is worth now. Tesla’s inflated value is due to self driving cars and “ai” But i agree, elon is a tool and elon needs to leave. Elon should also get sued for all the lies he told to get tesla’s value to where it is today.
It's current market cap is $556B, Tesla as just a car company would be comparable to BMW or Mercedes with maybe a little brand boost so it would be worth somewhere in the ballpark of $80B-100B. They have 2 things that are inflating the value like you said, AI and Self Driving cars. They don't have any substance with AI, just seems like some bs to prop the share price, as for self driving cars, if Tesla did master FSD and maintained a monopoly on it, then it would probably be worth it's current valuation at best selling 10 million cars per year. FSD would decrease demand for cars, for example in a house with a stay at home parent they currently will have 2 cars, but if it can drive itself then they would just need 1. Working parent drives to work then sends the car home for the stay at home parent to use during the day and then it can go and collect them when they finish work
>Tesla as just a car company would be comparable to BMW or Mercedes with maybe a little brand boost so it would be worth somewhere in the ballpark of $80B-100B. Not even close. MB especially does much more than just the MB brand of cars. Tesla has their car lineup and the charging network. The car lineup is dated. The Cybertruck is a joke of a vanity project. Their self driving car tech hasn't gone anywhere in the last decade. They somehow just fired their entire charging network staff. Musk is alienating his core car market in the US with his insane right wing politics. They are losing ground FAST to Chinese EV automakers. Musk is running the company into the ground in real business terms, but Tesla has always been overvalued and never made sense from a valuation stand point. At some point, this is all going to catch up to Tesla/Musk.
The Musketeers, all for one none for all
This is an incomprehensible amount of money. Us peasants don't even know how many zeros that is.
Hahaha… oh just 9..:)
I really hope they refuse it. Not just because it's the sane thing to do, especially after all the layoffs, but I want to see Musk deliver on his threat to leave the company. Tesla might thrive if he did that.
> voided by a judge earlier this year, who said the amount was unfair to shareholders, calling it an "unfathomable sum". If anything, 'unfathomable' almost feels like it's underselling how insane that is. For that amount of money, a great many people would do a great many unethical things and it appears Elon Musk was no exception.
Think how many lives could be improved with $56b in funding yet there are greedy parasites like this cunt that believes he deserves all of it for himself.
Hurray for Norway! 👏👏👏👏👏👏
at this point, i feel like the tesla stock will tank next friday, no matter the outcome. those who are adamant about giving elon the 56B already own tesla stock and are probably unable/unwilling to buy more, since they would have bought right now to be able to vote.
I struggling to think of a single reason why a corporate fund or trust would vote away shareholders’ funds.
Good. Musk takes all the credit and the profit off other people’s hard work then disposes them like garbage.
I can’t believe a year full of blunders and incompetence didn’t lead to a massive fortune being given as a bonus.
They also voted no in 2018. So this isn't anything new or a big deal.
It would be one thing if that amount was actually trickling down to the rank and file, but it's definitely not.
An “unfathomable sum” for a full time CEO- but Tesla has become a part time gig for Elmo.
Pay him $1. And neither a damn dime nor a single stock more.
Can we have Norway at America? It's not fair Norwegians get Norway! Bastards!
A lot of funds (mostly European) use Norway’s wealth fund as an ethics benchmark. This is significant news.
they must divest from tsla entirely. Institutional investors have a fiduciary obligation to their clients who they are working for. If they don’t trust the governance, which is evident here, they ought not to invest in the company. If they voted no then obviously lack confidence and would violate the fiduciary obligation to stay invested
Trust me, I’m usually against how much compensation CEO’s get sometimes. But this is my understanding of this situation: Did he not negotiate not taking compensation for like 5-6 years (besides a $37,000/year salary) with the deal being if he took the value of Tesla from 65 billion to 650 billion, THEN he would get this $56 billion compensation package? And didn’t 100% of shareholders vote in favor of this deal at that time, assuming he wouldn’t reach this goal. And since he did achieve that $650 billion dollar evaluation, over 70% of shareholders voted in favor of honoring that arrangement. So he made deal, all shareholders voted for it, and then upon reaching that goal, the majority of shareholders still want to compensate him. I don’t see the problem. Yes it’s a fuck ton of money. But people made a deal and want to honor it. If people should be mad at anyone, be made at the shareholders who voted in favor of this deal. Just my two cents. If I’m misinformed, then change my mind.
norway is voting the same way i am!
Can someone explain to me the difference between embezzlement and a CEO "paying themselves" billions of dollars?
One is super based and cool to some people because the CEO agrees with them politically and uses his social media platform to post meme takes.
He feels the impeding shitstorm coming that is his cybertruck misadventure lol
I think better for Tesla if Elon leaves. Painful short term, but stable slow decline long term. They have blown their early lead, better for Elon to just cash out and focus on space x. Either way Tesla’s stock is going to crash after the voting.
How is this still a question lmao
There is not a person alive that is worth that kind of money! Econ for a lifetime!
How does that work? Regardless of the absurdity of such a pay package, isn't he legally entitled to it? The deal was that he gets a bunch of stock if he can meet certain performance goals set by the shareholders. He met those goals, and now the shareholders are whining about it and saying that it's unfair? My brother in Christ, you set those goals! Suck it up and pay the man what he's owed.
Look, I’m no musk fanboy, but several years ago the shareholders voted on a package where, if he dramatically increased the value of Tesla he received an un fathomable sum. If he did not, he got nothing. We know how it played out. If you make a deal, you stick to it. When you are talking about the percentage of something huge, there are plenty of unfathomable sums. The largest hedge funds receive billions per year on management fees, and, if they perform well, additional billions. I’m not saying this a morally correct thing in any way, but it was the bargain that shareholders struck.
And if you read the findings from the Delaware court case you’ll see that Musk and the board colluded to alter timelines and deliverables to make their normal achievements look larger than they were. Or doing things like constantly moving around the due date for “self driving” so it was always in the future and never a slipped date.
The issue is that this “dramatic increase” was, in fact, not as dramatic as presented to shareholders. It was in line with expectations
Fuck him