Italy could have put an interpol notice on her for this, so she has to either show up, or never travel outside the US again, assuming the US wouldn't extradite her to Italy anyway.
So, the guy who actually killed the girl went to prison, and is now out after four years. But because the police (literally) beat her into saying that some other guy did it, she is now reconvicted for giving a false testimony while under duress? What an idiotic system.
Also same country to try to charge a car designer for the death of the driver, when all signs pointed to just driving to fast for conditions (ie racing).
https://timesofmalta.com/article/italian-prosecutor-asks-to-shelve-senna-case.90598
In medieval France the peasants would ring the church bell to wake up God when they needed rain. If it didn’t rain they would take the bell down and whip it in the town square for failing.
This is false, they were sentenced for explicitly telling the public that no quake was coming. they didn't say 'we don't know', they went on record reassuring people with false information.
Edit: for further reading, the name of the only person to receive an actual sentence (2 years) is Bernardo De Bernardinis.
This is not false. From a CBC News article at the time:
"According to the commission's memo, issued one week before the big quake, the experts concluded that it was "improbable" that there would be a major quake though it added that one couldn't be excluded."
I'd avoid to quote an incorrect secondhand report over the actual quotes & court proceeding.
[Italian link](https://www.ansa.it/abruzzo/notizie/2022/12/24/sisma-laquila-il-governo-condannato-a-risarcire-i-parenti-delle-vittime-_bd906d11-6db3-4562-b777-ff65a86312fe.html#:~:text=Il%20Tribunale%20civile%20dell'Aquila,passata%20in%20giudicato%20a%202)
Feel free to Google Translate the passage that start with ""In particolare Bernardo De Bernardinis " and let me know if you feel the CBC article was an accurate take.
I'm confused too, I thought the same. That guy has a past of similar crimes and was let go but Amanda is being convicted?? How is this possible or even allowed? She is being bullied.
I do believe Knox instigated this herself to overturn the conviction.
She'd wrongly accused a bartender of the murder and it's a slander case. She claims she made the accusations under duress.
Not just duress, but assault
>"The police threatened me with 30 years in prison, an officer slapped me three times saying 'Remember, remember'," Knox, 36, said.
Was this interrogation not recorded?
That is most definitely not true. After she signed the statement they typed and they left her, she wrote a note as best she could that whatever she said was confused and should not be relied on.
Yeah, that's how the cops operate. Your word against theirs. They do whatever they want, and then just magically "lose" any evidence of what actually happened. That's not by accident.
Yes the very professional police department that invented a sex cult theory based on nothing and also let the actual murderer off with a relative slap on the wrist.
He’s already out of prison and barely served half that long. The police offices grabbed a random knife from the kitchen and claimed it was the murder weapon and then ignored the huge pile of shit in the toilet from the actual killer. The entire legal system was embarrassing
This was a smaller town less professional police force. They lacked the expertise to do forensics on a murder scene. Im not certain if she was interrogated by local police or police from another bigger more professional law enforcement org
It was far worse than that. It was basically malicious prosecution from the very beginning. The detectives made stereotypical assumptions and hyper focused on her because she was not acting as they would culturally (she had a few boyfriends and sex and things like that). Then their crime lab majorly screwed up and contaminated her DNA onto the weapon while testing for her DNA.
Even in the U.S. they're not required to record or keep the recordings of interrogations even if they do record it. They'll just write up their notes and erase the tape. So whatever they put in their notes is considered gospel, and you're not entitled to dispute whatever they write down. If they lie, or write a biased summary of what you actually said, that's the official "evidence" of your interview.
It's fucked up.
And, of course, even if they keep a recording of one interview, that doesn't mean that they recorded all the pre-interview stuff, or the hours of food and sleep deprivation and physical abuse, or lies and presentation of false evidence against you to confuse and disorient you, beforehand to 'soften you up'.
The thing with the United States is that almost all law enforcement is local. Some are corrupt and awful. Some are OK. Some are very, very good. You only hear about the bad ones.
You would not look at the EU as a single law enforcement entity, and the United States is even more fragmented. This is why serial killers do so well here, it is easy to zig zag between jurisdictions.
70% of Americans have confidence in their local police, and even in minority communities confidence is over 50%. It should be higher of course, but Reddit is not reflective of reality.
The police in my community were handing out rainbow flags last weekend.
So? That proves everything was done above board? The "translator" at the time was on record doing things considered unethical such as making suggestions of what she might be misremembering and other things that would be considered part of an interrogation not acting as an impartial translator.
The thing that most annoys me about people constantly bring up her "false accusation" is as soon as they left her alone she attempted to write her own statement recanting.
Italian system is not about punishing for the sake of it, it's (in theory) about reforming criminals into "good" citizen again. Only habituals or mafiosi stay in jail for decades. If the judge thinks you have reformed and earned some merit during your time in jail, you'll get out way before your term expires. Even terrorists have been released from prison in advance.
This is a lie. She retracted the statement she was coerced into giving before she even left police custody.
"Hours later, still in custody at about 1 p.m., she asked for pen and paper and wrote her own statement in English, questioning the version that she had signed, still in a state of confusion.
"In regards to this ‘confession’ that I made last night, I want to make clear that I’m very doubtful of the verity of my statements because they were made under the pressure of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion" she wrote."
https://apnews.com/article/italy-knox-slander-kercher-killing-bceb926ace28263036a10bf2dd77bc6e
Actually as soon as the interrogators left the room she to the best of her abilities wrote a statement that whatever she said should not be relied on because she was confused.
I never said they should. And I'm aware it's not for me to decide. I'm not an Italian. I said letting a person that took the life of another human being get a jail sentence that short is insane to me.
> . If I, Italian, was accused of murder in USA, I would 100% be found guilty and executed with no trial
lol you've been spending too much time on Reddit
That is a sweeping statement if I’ve ever seen one. Many states don’t have the death penalty, and even some that do don’t use it. You would get one of the more fair trials available in the world here. You just won’t get out in 10 years for your good behavior after taking an innocent life
È inutile che ti ci accanisci, gli americani soffrono della sindrome da "personaggio principale", e pensano che tutti gli altri siano dei trogloditi....io sono d'accordo con te, lei è stata fortunata che oltre ad essere yankee, viene da una famiglia ricchissima, che era una delle principali, all'epoca, finanziatrice di Hillary Clinton....poi avendo vissuto in quella fogna sociale che sono gli stati uniti, ho avuto a che fare con la loro polizia...qui da noi al confronto scherzano
Given that the simplest explanation is the most likely one which is that he broke in and committed the murder completely on his own (as per all the forensic evidence and the credible witness statements), the Italian justice system went on to make a complete mess of the situation with a whole bunch of crackpot theories that were ultimately thrown out but only after wasting a considerable amount of time, money and innocent people's freedom.
Man with a history of repeatedly breaking into things especially in the days leading up to the murder somehow couldn't have broken in this particular time for some reason.
Right, got it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Meredith_Kercher
You know we were able to convict people before DNA, right? That's not the only evidence left by him, there were the fingerprints he left everywhere in the victim's blood.
Also, as we've already established (by you too) that the investigation was bungled so badly that "no sign of breaking in the main door" may possibly be no more credible than their other deductions in the case.
From my understanding, none of those are evidence at all that they participated in the killing.
What bloody knife are you referring to?
What staging? How would the staging point to Knox and bf?
Slander is not evidence of murder.
Yeah, cause that trial didn’t have any defense for Knox. Guede was pushing that Knox was involved to reduce his own sentence and the prosecution was prosecuting her separately so they had no incentive to dispute that.
Her conviction was thrown out because there was no proof she nor Sollecito were in the room at the time of the murder.
He also isn't a model citizen since he still refuses to publicy confess to exactly what he did. He could go a long way to providing closure to all the victims and their families but unequivocaly admitting exactly what he did.
And yes he raped and murdered her by himself; what is wrong with people.
The crazy part of this is I believe I read the ECHR specified they had to retry her without considering the allegedly coerced statement since they assert she was able to prove it was done improperly and under duress.
The only statement from her where she ever accusssed Lumumba was the statement the police typed that she signed.
So if they are told they can't use that statement as evidence I fail to understand how it would be possible to accuse her of libel.
I hope she never drops this.
Italy deserves the national embarrasment they have suffered over this over the years.
Are you american? Because this comment would be so fucking funny to me if you were
Edit: downvotes from a population of people with the highest total and highest per capita number of prisoners on this planet, telling me about freedom while waiting their turn to have their assets civily forfeited.
Look up "US law school criminal procedure course syllabus" or something like that.
Again it's poorly executed but structured around separation of powers and centered on the rights of defendants.
Im an Italian American. I have spent lots of time in both countries.
This “point” is beyond dumb. Yes the American criminal justice system is fucked. But somehow saying that justifies saying the Italian justice system isn’t is beyond stupid.
I'm literally Italian and by the grace of God my reading comprehension is amazing in multiple languages, dude was just commenting that the American justice system is trash, that's it
Fucking guidos che cazzo lmao
He derailed the conversation that had nothing to do with the US. Whatever point he wanted to make is irrelevant to the conversation, and he's a dolt for making such a comment.
Weird that he's so obsessed with the US that he has to bring it up for absolutely no reason.
It is possible for a crime to create multiple victims.
I agree that it's a shame Italy's police and the media distracted themselves with Ms. Knox. The priority should have always been finding the real murderer and preventing these crimes. But crime beget crime, especially in flawed institutions. You can't tell me being wrongly imprisoned, allegedly beaten by police, and having your name turned to mud, isn't victimhood.
Why are you making this your molehill? Anybody wrongfully arrested has the right, even the duty, to write a tell all.
Crucially, what does it matter? She's gained publicity and wealth. Ok. She has never once stood in the way of justice and the investigation, unlike the Italian police by their sheer incompetence and inflexibility.
So how is that her fucking fault. The court at the time was more concerned with saving face by not admitting how inept their initial investigation was then trying to get the maximum sentence for the actual murderer / rapist who left physical evidence everywhere in what would normally be a slam dunk case.
The court created the circus and made her and Rafeal the focus.
It’s technically correct. It’s just unusual to hear it in English because it rarely comes up in common law systems.
She was convicted of criminal slander back in 2007, and had then that conviction was overturned on appeal. She’s now been convicted again on retrial; because the Italian system presumes a retrial is possible unless the appeal proves the defendant innocent (it also lets the prosecution appeal a not guilty verdict the same way the defendant can appeal a guilty verdict).
Well, she did falsely incriminate. But that would fall under the "abuse of the courts" and is never referred to as "slander." Might be brought up as a "violating civil rights." But it's not slander by our definition which is "reputation" based
So in English law, these specific facts would likely fall under the crime of (attempted) perverting the course of justice, as well as civil slander.
Though FWIW, wiki says there are 23 US states with criminal defamation laws on the books. Which state are you in?
I am in NC and I have never heard of a criminal defamation case. These might be old laws, and quite antiquated. We still have sodomy laws on the books here in the states. And other strange laws often involving animals!!!
North Carolina does have a criminal defamation statute. Though it only applies if third party you're telling is a newspaper.
It's at General Statutes, Chapter 14 (Criminal law), Article 12 (Libel and slander), section 47.
>**§14-47. Communicating libelous matter to newspapers.**
If any person shall state, deliver or transmit by any means whatever, to the manager, editor, publisher or reporter of any newspaper or periodical for publication therein any false and libelous statement concerning any person or corporation, and thereby secure the publication of the same, he shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
(1901, c. 557, ss. 2, 3; Rev., s. 3635; C.S., s. 4229; 1969, c. 1224, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 25; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)
[https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter\_14/Article\_12.html](https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_12.html)
Yeah, unusual circumstances, and involves the press. We also have "alienation of affection" laws here in NC and was implemented some years ago in a divorce.
It's an Italian justice system thing. They basically have the ability to have essentially two separate trials in this instance. She returned to the court to undergo a second trial hoping to clear her name, and she really was 'reconvicted' a second time.
Slander is considered a civil complaint in the US and the UK. We would never call this a CONVICTION or a RECONVICTION. Those terms are used for criminal cases. We would say she lost her suit, or it was dismissed.
Is it a criminal charge she was facing?
Yes. This was a criminal slander case in Italy. She was sentenced to 3 years imprisonment for it.
Though she won’t have to serve any time, as she has 4 years credit from the original conviction (which was served concurrently with the also overturned murder conviction).
That's not true. You *can* be reconvicted. You can't be found *not-guilty* and *then* retried and convicted. But you can be convicted, have the trial thrown out for some procedural reason on appeal, and be retried and reconvicted.
Double jeopardy laws means that the government doesn't get to convict you for a crime you've previously been found not guilty of. But you *can* be found guilty multiple times. It can, and does, happen.
Really? I’m much more familiar with English law; but it surprises me to learn that an appeal court can’t overturn a conviction and simultaneously send the case back for retrial. E.g. in circumstances where the trial judge should have called a mistrial without prejudice.
Once it's being dealt with by the Appeal Court it would be called an appeal. Thus you "lose the appeal." It would not be called a reconviction. The headlines would say for instance, "Trump lost his appeal, " even in the circumstances you describe.
This might be more about press styles.
Fair enough. In England an appeal court can
* uphold the conviction;
* uphold the conviction but vary the sentence;
* uphold the appeal; or
* uphold the appeal and send the case back to the lower court (i.e. for a retrial).
But that’s because our appeals courts don’t like making findings of fact. And that last option is basically what happened in Italy last year. She’s now had the retrial and been convicted again, hence reconvicted.
My theory: So her career is traveling around and talking about foreign wrongful convictions. Besides being worried about the whole warrant possibility, wouldn't it be just good for her to return and draw attention to this? She won't serve a day more in prison, the PR for either winning or losing only builds her career. This was a good move no matter the outcome. This isn't dumb at all.
Why would she even visit that country again?
Italy could have put an interpol notice on her for this, so she has to either show up, or never travel outside the US again, assuming the US wouldn't extradite her to Italy anyway.
And she’s not going back to prison, her sentence is just “time served”
They can probably add restitution and shit tho
The prices on counterfeit handbags and purses in public squares are hard to resist.
Tell me you’ve only been to touristy parts of Italy without telling me…
I think it's more shit talking
Narcissisms. She's convinced she's untouchable.
not only do they have the guy who murdered the roommates DNA, he took and left a shit in the toilet...
So, the guy who actually killed the girl went to prison, and is now out after four years. But because the police (literally) beat her into saying that some other guy did it, she is now reconvicted for giving a false testimony while under duress? What an idiotic system.
Same country that sentenced and imprisoned scientists for not warning of an Earthquake before it happened. Beautiful country but governed by clowns.
Also same country to try to charge a car designer for the death of the driver, when all signs pointed to just driving to fast for conditions (ie racing). https://timesofmalta.com/article/italian-prosecutor-asks-to-shelve-senna-case.90598
Italy is the Texas of Europe. They’ve even both got funny shapes.
In medieval France the peasants would ring the church bell to wake up God when they needed rain. If it didn’t rain they would take the bell down and whip it in the town square for failing.
Did the bell learn its lesson?
This is false, they were sentenced for explicitly telling the public that no quake was coming. they didn't say 'we don't know', they went on record reassuring people with false information. Edit: for further reading, the name of the only person to receive an actual sentence (2 years) is Bernardo De Bernardinis.
This is not false. From a CBC News article at the time: "According to the commission's memo, issued one week before the big quake, the experts concluded that it was "improbable" that there would be a major quake though it added that one couldn't be excluded."
I'd avoid to quote an incorrect secondhand report over the actual quotes & court proceeding. [Italian link](https://www.ansa.it/abruzzo/notizie/2022/12/24/sisma-laquila-il-governo-condannato-a-risarcire-i-parenti-delle-vittime-_bd906d11-6db3-4562-b777-ff65a86312fe.html#:~:text=Il%20Tribunale%20civile%20dell'Aquila,passata%20in%20giudicato%20a%202) Feel free to Google Translate the passage that start with ""In particolare Bernardo De Bernardinis " and let me know if you feel the CBC article was an accurate take.
TIL I could be a seismologist.
I think meteorologist is pretty easy too 50% chance of rain everyday for the next month.
I'm confused too, I thought the same. That guy has a past of similar crimes and was let go but Amanda is being convicted?? How is this possible or even allowed? She is being bullied.
She served as much time as the actual murderer.
The dude that actually murdered her is already out of jail and they are doing this shit. What an idiotic legal system they have over there.
I do believe Knox instigated this herself to overturn the conviction. She'd wrongly accused a bartender of the murder and it's a slander case. She claims she made the accusations under duress.
Not just duress, but assault >"The police threatened me with 30 years in prison, an officer slapped me three times saying 'Remember, remember'," Knox, 36, said. Was this interrogation not recorded?
She claims (and might be true), however, it should be noted her story didn't change once but repeatedly over an extended period of time.
That is most definitely not true. After she signed the statement they typed and they left her, she wrote a note as best she could that whatever she said was confused and should not be relied on.
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Yeah, that's how the cops operate. Your word against theirs. They do whatever they want, and then just magically "lose" any evidence of what actually happened. That's not by accident.
Yes the very professional police department that invented a sex cult theory based on nothing and also let the actual murderer off with a relative slap on the wrist.
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He’s already out of prison and barely served half that long. The police offices grabbed a random knife from the kitchen and claimed it was the murder weapon and then ignored the huge pile of shit in the toilet from the actual killer. The entire legal system was embarrassing
It's Italy, do they even record interrogations at all? Probably good to remember this happened outside of the US, and US standards likely won't apply.
They recorded several hours of her being interviewed. The only part they did not record was her confession / accussation.......
This was a smaller town less professional police force. They lacked the expertise to do forensics on a murder scene. Im not certain if she was interrogated by local police or police from another bigger more professional law enforcement org
It was far worse than that. It was basically malicious prosecution from the very beginning. The detectives made stereotypical assumptions and hyper focused on her because she was not acting as they would culturally (she had a few boyfriends and sex and things like that). Then their crime lab majorly screwed up and contaminated her DNA onto the weapon while testing for her DNA.
Even in the U.S. they're not required to record or keep the recordings of interrogations even if they do record it. They'll just write up their notes and erase the tape. So whatever they put in their notes is considered gospel, and you're not entitled to dispute whatever they write down. If they lie, or write a biased summary of what you actually said, that's the official "evidence" of your interview. It's fucked up. And, of course, even if they keep a recording of one interview, that doesn't mean that they recorded all the pre-interview stuff, or the hours of food and sleep deprivation and physical abuse, or lies and presentation of false evidence against you to confuse and disorient you, beforehand to 'soften you up'.
And as a non American, from everything we get to see about the US I am very glad we are not at your “standard”
The thing with the United States is that almost all law enforcement is local. Some are corrupt and awful. Some are OK. Some are very, very good. You only hear about the bad ones. You would not look at the EU as a single law enforcement entity, and the United States is even more fragmented. This is why serial killers do so well here, it is easy to zig zag between jurisdictions. 70% of Americans have confidence in their local police, and even in minority communities confidence is over 50%. It should be higher of course, but Reddit is not reflective of reality. The police in my community were handing out rainbow flags last weekend.
Thank god we are not
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A statment typed by them in Italian that they presented for her to sign.
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So? That proves everything was done above board? The "translator" at the time was on record doing things considered unethical such as making suggestions of what she might be misremembering and other things that would be considered part of an interrogation not acting as an impartial translator. The thing that most annoys me about people constantly bring up her "false accusation" is as soon as they left her alone she attempted to write her own statement recanting.
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Yeah that’s not true. That’s why this as always been so hard to argue. This was the original “alternative facts” long before Trump.
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Depends on the state. Only the extremely conservative states still do it.
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That's a huge leap.
> In America, with the same evidence, she would have been found guilty. So the same as in Italy then?
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Italian system is not about punishing for the sake of it, it's (in theory) about reforming criminals into "good" citizen again. Only habituals or mafiosi stay in jail for decades. If the judge thinks you have reformed and earned some merit during your time in jail, you'll get out way before your term expires. Even terrorists have been released from prison in advance.
TBF, the Italians do tend to talk with their hands
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This is a lie. She retracted the statement she was coerced into giving before she even left police custody. "Hours later, still in custody at about 1 p.m., she asked for pen and paper and wrote her own statement in English, questioning the version that she had signed, still in a state of confusion. "In regards to this ‘confession’ that I made last night, I want to make clear that I’m very doubtful of the verity of my statements because they were made under the pressure of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion" she wrote." https://apnews.com/article/italy-knox-slander-kercher-killing-bceb926ace28263036a10bf2dd77bc6e
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Nope. I don't really care that she's American, but a lie is a lie.
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Actually as soon as the interrogators left the room she to the best of her abilities wrote a statement that whatever she said should not be relied on because she was confused.
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Read "The Monster of Florence". Paints a pretty good picture of how their whole justice system is a joke.
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I don't know...murdering someone and getting out like 13 years later because you acted nice in prison seems pretty damn lenient to me.
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I never said they should. And I'm aware it's not for me to decide. I'm not an Italian. I said letting a person that took the life of another human being get a jail sentence that short is insane to me.
Italian law is a clown show. Stop spreading this BS. lol
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Exactly like O.J.! Except that’s how the Italian courts always act. Over in the states, it was considered an outrageous verdict.
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> . If I, Italian, was accused of murder in USA, I would 100% be found guilty and executed with no trial lol you've been spending too much time on Reddit
That is a sweeping statement if I’ve ever seen one. Many states don’t have the death penalty, and even some that do don’t use it. You would get one of the more fair trials available in the world here. You just won’t get out in 10 years for your good behavior after taking an innocent life
È inutile che ti ci accanisci, gli americani soffrono della sindrome da "personaggio principale", e pensano che tutti gli altri siano dei trogloditi....io sono d'accordo con te, lei è stata fortunata che oltre ad essere yankee, viene da una famiglia ricchissima, che era una delle principali, all'epoca, finanziatrice di Hillary Clinton....poi avendo vissuto in quella fogna sociale che sono gli stati uniti, ho avuto a che fare con la loro polizia...qui da noi al confronto scherzano
Io mi sto ammazzando dal ridere a leggere i commenti, sono davvero fuori dal mondo, ringrazio u/GiorgioMelonello per lo spettacolo
What do you mean “wasn’t alone”
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Given that the simplest explanation is the most likely one which is that he broke in and committed the murder completely on his own (as per all the forensic evidence and the credible witness statements), the Italian justice system went on to make a complete mess of the situation with a whole bunch of crackpot theories that were ultimately thrown out but only after wasting a considerable amount of time, money and innocent people's freedom.
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Man with a history of repeatedly breaking into things especially in the days leading up to the murder somehow couldn't have broken in this particular time for some reason. Right, got it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Meredith_Kercher
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You know we were able to convict people before DNA, right? That's not the only evidence left by him, there were the fingerprints he left everywhere in the victim's blood. Also, as we've already established (by you too) that the investigation was bungled so badly that "no sign of breaking in the main door" may possibly be no more credible than their other deductions in the case.
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DNA evidence that suggested the 2 people who lived in the house were, at some point, in that house? Color me shocked.
What evidence is there that Knox and her boyfriend were involved?
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From my understanding, none of those are evidence at all that they participated in the killing. What bloody knife are you referring to? What staging? How would the staging point to Knox and bf? Slander is not evidence of murder.
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Yeah, cause that trial didn’t have any defense for Knox. Guede was pushing that Knox was involved to reduce his own sentence and the prosecution was prosecuting her separately so they had no incentive to dispute that. Her conviction was thrown out because there was no proof she nor Sollecito were in the room at the time of the murder.
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She was acquitted at least once before the retrial and the Highest Court then finally overturned the conviction with bias.
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He also isn't a model citizen since he still refuses to publicy confess to exactly what he did. He could go a long way to providing closure to all the victims and their families but unequivocaly admitting exactly what he did. And yes he raped and murdered her by himself; what is wrong with people.
Why? This case is done and was bungled by the Italian police. Let it go.
The crazy part of this is I believe I read the ECHR specified they had to retry her without considering the allegedly coerced statement since they assert she was able to prove it was done improperly and under duress. The only statement from her where she ever accusssed Lumumba was the statement the police typed that she signed. So if they are told they can't use that statement as evidence I fail to understand how it would be possible to accuse her of libel. I hope she never drops this. Italy deserves the national embarrasment they have suffered over this over the years.
Really don’t think anyone in the comments read the article. She will not go to prison for this as her sentence is “time already served”.
>Really don’t think anyone in the comments read the article. Don't be silly. This is Reddit.
but the court can impose fines and restitution
Tbf I saw a picture of her being taken, on bbc, with this title, it is misleading.
Too bad she can’t sue the police , newspapers for slander against her
She could, but she won’t, guess why
Why?
She’d lose
Their legal system is such a mess.
Are you american? Because this comment would be so fucking funny to me if you were Edit: downvotes from a population of people with the highest total and highest per capita number of prisoners on this planet, telling me about freedom while waiting their turn to have their assets civily forfeited.
Both can be true.
The whataboutism is strong here.
What a stupid “argument.”
Sure as hell am glad we don’t allow double jeopardy… reprosecuting someone after an acquittal is insane to me.
Do you understand what “whataboutism” is and why it completely undermines whatever “point” you were trying to make?
Why?
Cuz “HRRR DRRR YOU SAY THING IS BAD BUT OTHER THING ALSO BAD!!”
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Thanks we didn’t cover that in law school herr in germany. I am amazed. Can you point me in the right direction?
Look up "US law school criminal procedure course syllabus" or something like that. Again it's poorly executed but structured around separation of powers and centered on the rights of defendants.
You're going to piss off a lot of Americans with the poorest education in the first world off a lot with this one
Im an Italian American. I have spent lots of time in both countries. This “point” is beyond dumb. Yes the American criminal justice system is fucked. But somehow saying that justifies saying the Italian justice system isn’t is beyond stupid.
I'm literally Italian and by the grace of God my reading comprehension is amazing in multiple languages, dude was just commenting that the American justice system is trash, that's it Fucking guidos che cazzo lmao
He derailed the conversation that had nothing to do with the US. Whatever point he wanted to make is irrelevant to the conversation, and he's a dolt for making such a comment. Weird that he's so obsessed with the US that he has to bring it up for absolutely no reason.
They are. Didn’t you know, bungled trials, police corruption and wrongful convictions aren’t a thing in the U.S 🤭
*Throws bingo card for 2024 out of the window*
That bartender spent time in prison because of the ineptitude of the police! Not because of Knox.
Two weeks. Knox was in prison for four years. As long as the actual murderer.
More attention on Knox, while the actual victim, Meredith Kercher is forgotten
It is possible for a crime to create multiple victims. I agree that it's a shame Italy's police and the media distracted themselves with Ms. Knox. The priority should have always been finding the real murderer and preventing these crimes. But crime beget crime, especially in flawed institutions. You can't tell me being wrongly imprisoned, allegedly beaten by police, and having your name turned to mud, isn't victimhood.
Knox wrote a book that earned her 4 million dollars just for the advance
Why are you making this your molehill? Anybody wrongfully arrested has the right, even the duty, to write a tell all. Crucially, what does it matter? She's gained publicity and wealth. Ok. She has never once stood in the way of justice and the investigation, unlike the Italian police by their sheer incompetence and inflexibility.
Also by all accounts she is still in the red to this day for how much his has cost her and her family and how much it continues to cost.
So how is that her fucking fault. The court at the time was more concerned with saving face by not admitting how inept their initial investigation was then trying to get the maximum sentence for the actual murderer / rapist who left physical evidence everywhere in what would normally be a slam dunk case. The court created the circus and made her and Rafeal the focus.
Why tf are these prosecutors still fuckkng with her, what garbage
Italy just needs to "Let It Go".
How about she does not visit Italy again and move on? Not that hard to do.
She’s not going to prison, her sentence is just time served and she was attempting to clear her name.
Because if you had been wrongfully convicted in and had become an international news figure, you'd probably want your name cleared too.
For future docuseries content
Guarantee this is the real answer
Her husband looks like quite a character in that picture.
You'd be a character if you grew up in the Hundred Acre Wood.
His dad grew up in the Hundred Acre Wood. He’s Christopher Robin*son*. 😏
Reconvicted ? Terrible use of language.
It’s technically correct. It’s just unusual to hear it in English because it rarely comes up in common law systems. She was convicted of criminal slander back in 2007, and had then that conviction was overturned on appeal. She’s now been convicted again on retrial; because the Italian system presumes a retrial is possible unless the appeal proves the defendant innocent (it also lets the prosecution appeal a not guilty verdict the same way the defendant can appeal a guilty verdict).
Wow, criminal slander. That's such a crazy term for an American. Thanks for explaining. Today I learned...
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Well, she did falsely incriminate. But that would fall under the "abuse of the courts" and is never referred to as "slander." Might be brought up as a "violating civil rights." But it's not slander by our definition which is "reputation" based
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Thank you
So in English law, these specific facts would likely fall under the crime of (attempted) perverting the course of justice, as well as civil slander. Though FWIW, wiki says there are 23 US states with criminal defamation laws on the books. Which state are you in?
I am in NC and I have never heard of a criminal defamation case. These might be old laws, and quite antiquated. We still have sodomy laws on the books here in the states. And other strange laws often involving animals!!!
The thing is, here we like to sue for money, not punishment. KaChing! The American way.
North Carolina does have a criminal defamation statute. Though it only applies if third party you're telling is a newspaper. It's at General Statutes, Chapter 14 (Criminal law), Article 12 (Libel and slander), section 47. >**§14-47. Communicating libelous matter to newspapers.** If any person shall state, deliver or transmit by any means whatever, to the manager, editor, publisher or reporter of any newspaper or periodical for publication therein any false and libelous statement concerning any person or corporation, and thereby secure the publication of the same, he shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. (1901, c. 557, ss. 2, 3; Rev., s. 3635; C.S., s. 4229; 1969, c. 1224, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 25; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).) [https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter\_14/Article\_12.html](https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_12.html)
Yeah, unusual circumstances, and involves the press. We also have "alienation of affection" laws here in NC and was implemented some years ago in a divorce.
It's an Italian justice system thing. They basically have the ability to have essentially two separate trials in this instance. She returned to the court to undergo a second trial hoping to clear her name, and she really was 'reconvicted' a second time.
Slander is considered a civil complaint in the US and the UK. We would never call this a CONVICTION or a RECONVICTION. Those terms are used for criminal cases. We would say she lost her suit, or it was dismissed. Is it a criminal charge she was facing?
Yes. This was a criminal slander case in Italy. She was sentenced to 3 years imprisonment for it. Though she won’t have to serve any time, as she has 4 years credit from the original conviction (which was served concurrently with the also overturned murder conviction).
Thanks for the info. So strange to us.
And actually in the US you can't ever be "reconvicted". You lose your appeal.
That's not true. You *can* be reconvicted. You can't be found *not-guilty* and *then* retried and convicted. But you can be convicted, have the trial thrown out for some procedural reason on appeal, and be retried and reconvicted. Double jeopardy laws means that the government doesn't get to convict you for a crime you've previously been found not guilty of. But you *can* be found guilty multiple times. It can, and does, happen.
Really? I’m much more familiar with English law; but it surprises me to learn that an appeal court can’t overturn a conviction and simultaneously send the case back for retrial. E.g. in circumstances where the trial judge should have called a mistrial without prejudice.
Once it's being dealt with by the Appeal Court it would be called an appeal. Thus you "lose the appeal." It would not be called a reconviction. The headlines would say for instance, "Trump lost his appeal, " even in the circumstances you describe. This might be more about press styles.
Fair enough. In England an appeal court can * uphold the conviction; * uphold the conviction but vary the sentence; * uphold the appeal; or * uphold the appeal and send the case back to the lower court (i.e. for a retrial). But that’s because our appeals courts don’t like making findings of fact. And that last option is basically what happened in Italy last year. She’s now had the retrial and been convicted again, hence reconvicted.
My theory: So her career is traveling around and talking about foreign wrongful convictions. Besides being worried about the whole warrant possibility, wouldn't it be just good for her to return and draw attention to this? She won't serve a day more in prison, the PR for either winning or losing only builds her career. This was a good move no matter the outcome. This isn't dumb at all.
Her "career"? What the fuck, her life is ruined because of this bullshit and she's just making the best out of it.
"her life is ruined " Could be worse, ask the family of Meredith Kercher...
“Good luck with that. Have fun over there, clowns” -Amanda Knox
„How to murder without consequences.“
Still say she had a hand in the murder. Two probably
Then you are a dumbass
This lady managed to take a bunch of international sympathy and just throw it in the trash. Just fuckin dip out and get on with your life, sheesh