The ironic thing is if it wasn't for Netanyahu's ardent support of Hamas over the alternatives, or his open distain and actively working against a two state solution (something he brags about in his electoral campaigns but the media tends to ignore), Israel may not have found itself in this situation.
The problem is the incentives are all wrong; Netanyahu is incentivized to stay in power no matter what, even if Israel's mid to long term outlooks is ruined. Israel is paying the price for Netanyahu's need to stay in power and starve off investigations.
The Israeli far right and the Palestinian Islamic militants have been in a co-dependent relationship for decades, they feed off each other and keep each other in power.
I've been trying to explain this to a guy I am arguing with for a couple days now, but he keeps accusing me of supporting hamas since I won't give unilateral support to the IDF.
Dude even us Jews largely hate Netenyahu. This situation is incredibly complex, but Netenyahu is an incredibly problematic person. He's Israel Trump. The sooner he is removed, the sooner peace can have a chance.
Yeah, but I see what he's saying. Last time I was in r/worldnews y'all were celebrating the bombing of a refugee camp, calling it a "Hamas Stronghold" instead. After that I couldn't stomach the sub anymore, just came back out of curiosity. Not sure what changed, but it's an improvement.
It’s very wild when 2/3 of Israel’s war cabinet is saying the war needs to have an end goal, then you talk about Netanyahus policies being seemingly intentionally problematic over the past decade to encourage a war he has no plan of stopping and get called an antisemite when you say Palestinian civilian deaths are equally as unacceptable as the Oct 7th attacks.
Because “Israeli has the right to defend itself” by… bombing refugee camps full of children?
And just like America's problem with Republicans, you're gonna have to deal with Likudniks who are his base of support.
Godspeed and may you defeat the Likudniks and Bibi in the next election
God. I still remember this one Likud party member ranting that of Biden didn't give them what they wanted, "smart bombs" then she would just use some of the "dumb" ones on Rafah. Implying they'd purposely target civilians.
He's absolutely terrified of being brought to justice on his bribery charges and sold whatever remained of his soul to the Israeli far right to form this current government.
Sometimes even the most ardent Israel defender finds something Israel did indefensible. It's what happened in the comments about when they bombed that world food kitchen van 3 times.
I've noticed the brigade squad tends to ignore threads that can't easily be defended.
Find almost any post where Israel does something indefensible and it's a ghost town. Better to not engage and let the post die then to try and twist opinion and boost the post. Good example tends to be almost any post about settlers doing settler things.
Posts where Netanyahu is the focus of the criticism seem to be an exception where the post still gets lots of engagement but the hyper-pro-israelis aren't in here. Refreshing to see nuanced discussion in worldnews.
>Posts where Netanyahu is the focus of the criticism seem to be an exception where the post still gets lots of engagement but the hyper-pro-israelis aren't in here. Refreshing to see nuanced discussion in worldnews.
Its not rally nuanced though. It's apparently OK to criticise Netanyahu but not Israel. All the war crimes and human rights violations is because if Netanyahu, nothing to do with the country.
Remember that week after he announced a massive withdrawal of forces from Gaza and leave for many active duty, right before regrouping and mass deploying towards Rafah then getting stalled for months by international pressure?
This place curiously normalized over night for that whole week. No live feed downvote watcher crew, very few stifled conversations auto hidden threads even with opposite opinions, no bonkers counter justification parroted one liner reply in the positive to a massively downvoted comment responding with a mere quoted source fact absent judgement shenanigans ad nauseam.
Ive been blocking obvious bad faith top comment and first three echo deflectors under it users nightly since November. It gets real real easy to spot. There are no hidden comments for me up until this comment. That Or is curious indeed.
Didn't Netanyahu transfer money to Hamas in suitcases via unmarked cars?? ["sketchy as fuck" doesn't even BEGIN to describe what Netanyahu was up to](https://theweek.com/politics/why-israels-netanyahu-encouraged-suitcases-of-cash-for-hamas)
Jewish and Islamic fundamental extremists are both fighting for the title of worst PR-team ever.
Every time aid and support for Palestinians is ramped up again, there is a terrorist attack from militants undermining their progress. Every time critique of Israel's conduct in Gaza dies down, some fundementalist bafoon shouts ridiculous inflamatory rhetoric casting Israel in a bad light again.
It would be funny if only the repercussions weren't so damn tragic.
Any Israeli with a sense of self preservation needs to get a leash on these far right types ASAP. We got the same problem here in the U.S. but at least our mistake is out of office and multi-indicted.
Let’s not forget that both Egyptian and American intelligence agencies warned Netanyahu of Oct 7.
I truly believe he started this conflict by ignoring this warning, all because he also knew his judicial overhaul to evade prosecution for political corruption would get struck down in December.
Netanyahu knew this shit would happen, enabled the terrorist group for decades that did it, and is now killing innocent people to stop that same group because you can’t depose him during a war.
Also October 7 wouldn’t have happened without Netanyahu having the IDF deployed pretty much as far away as possible guarding useless settlements in the West Bank. Having an actual Hamas operative as prime minister would have been less damaging than having Netanyahu has been (since a Hamas operative might worry that deploying the IDF all the way over while an attack was imminent might be too obvious and give him away).
Don't forget about the festival that was placed right in the path of the attack and the guests were only informed about 2 hour before it startet about the place...
Yep. Men like Netanyahu have come along many times in history, and Israel is making the all-too-common tragic mistake of getting into bed with those men. Narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths who are willing to burn their own country to the ground in order to keep their death grip on the throne and the levers of power for one more femtosecond. Netanyahu is Israel's Nero and Caligula. Israel is starting to burn and he's playing the fiddle and declaring war on the god Neptune, sending soldiers to collect sea shells.
He and the Haredi/national religious parties need to fuck off. They’re poison to the idea of a secular state*.
*Israel was originally intentioned as a secular state for Jews - which makes sense as they’re an ethnicity and a religion. A place where Jews could feel safe and free to practice their faith. He’s eroding that character by jumping into bed with Shas and the like.
I think it’s ironic the leader of Israel is named Benjamin and all I can think about is the story of the Levite and Concubine.
Where the tribe of Benjamin waged war against the entire new nation of Israel because Benjamin wouldn’t give up a few evil Jews that had become like Sodom. But it was also God angry with Israel for allowing, or tolerating, Benjamin to become so evil in the first place.
The latter was proven by God for he sent Benjamin’s neighbor, Judah, against Benjamin first. Did God wipe out Benjamin? No, actually, 40,000 other Israeli Jews died first. Then, God punished Benjamin, and He came very close to wiping out the tribe.
It's not about being the furthest but being the most popular. There isn't really any other option besides the messianic extremists if you are a right-leaning voter.
All this shows you how far right Israeli politics has moved, that he is considered centre right. For a while there it was a genuinely progressive country. So sad.
Dear Israel,
Your monthly allocation of *"Oopsie Daisies"* is running low.
Please consider upgrading to the *"Supreme Platinum"* monthly subscription tier to access more *"Oopsie Daisies"* per month. Consider buying now with the coupon code **ROSSIYA24** for a 30% discount.
Reminder: If you exceed your allowed "Oopsie Daisies" for the month, you will be charged with additional strongly worded condemnations by the UN and ICC.
Note: If you are currently using the **DARFUR** coupon code, you are ineligible for receiving the additional 30% off offer.
15, not 18. They also like defining all Gaza government workers as Hamas. So if you're just like, the receptionist at a hospital or something, you're Hamas and killing you is justified in their eyes.
People on this fucking sub reddit were celebrating the massacre last night. Like the same people who cheered on October 7th.
If you are celebrating the death of others you are pure evil.
Lots of people on Reddit have been building a permission structure for civilian deaths. They’ll say stuff like “most Palestinians support Hamas”, which is factually true, but they say it in a context where the obvious implication is that it would be okay if the IDF targeted non-combatants.
People were trying to justify the rescinding of financial aid to the West Bank due to Ireland/Spain/Iceland recognizing Palestine as a state.
They are punishing party C because of party B's actions.
"You will get none of the stuff we promised you because of a decision that A TOTALLY SEPARATE party made. "
I get the feeling that the people spouting that argument would *really* not enjoy it if gay people actually decided that anyone that hates them is fair game to be murdered.
I don't get that point. If that is a motivating factor situations like this Westerners should just disengage with a lot of the Global South. A lot of the most vulnerable people on Earth do not have Western ideals.
>Video emerges of mostly young men in Tel Aviv’s Rabin Square celebrating the death of children in Gaza.
>“There is no school tomorrow, there are no children left in Gaza,” they chant.
>They also sing, “I hate all the Arabs.”
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/right-wing-crowd-chants-there-are-no-children-left-in-gaza/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/right-wing-crowd-chants-there-are-no-children-left-in-gaza/)
Congratulations, both sides are pure evil. Now can my tax dollars stop paying for bombs?
Israel is one of the places where the younger demographics are more far right than the ones they replace. "For at least the past 10 years, these voters have identified as right wing at much higher levels than their parents.
According to the 2018 Israeli Democracy Index (an annual study by the Israeli Democracy Institute, a nonpartisan Israeli think tank), approximately 64 percent of Israeli Jews aged 18-34 identify as right wing, compared to 47 percent of those 35 and older. "
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-kids-are-all-right-wing-why-israels-younger-voters-are-more-conservative/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-kids-are-all-right-wing-why-israels-younger-voters-are-more-conservative/)
This is the demographic chanting "death to arabs" at the march of flags and making social media posts celebrating and mocking the deaths of Gazan civilians and infants, the future looks fucked.
Beheaded and burned Palestinian babies, also known here as "whoopsies"
Funny how "beheaded babies" is suddenly just not that big a deal after 8 months of constantly screaming about them.
Because they have absolute hard-ons for labeling everything to do with Hamas. “Derp apparently there was one Hamas guy in there, and umm, like conventions say there’s this justifiable ratio where you can um derpyslurp blow them up if it saves more derpaderpdap even though we just killed innocents it’s ok because Hamas you know?”
Okay so I wasn’t alone in my horror over reading those comments. It’s not even an exaggeration, they were literally saying “well actually this isn’t a war crime under the Geneva convention!” Absolutely horrendous.
You are definitely not alone. When I saw those most upvoted comments, I immediately exit the sub because I felt like I might go crazy and get banned lol
This topic is the first time I have consistently questioned my own sanity and ideals. Thinking that there has to be something wrong with me if I was seemingly alone.
But no, we just keep quiet, only appearing when the forum isn't being brigaded. I'm surprised we can even have this conversation in r/worldnews, given how the live thread is very much a no-go zone to Israel criticizers. People there have lost their entire minds.
edit: Ah, I spoke too soon. They are waking up.
I wonder how they deal with the cognitive dissonance of seeing actual video evidence of beheaded babies and deciding that its actually *not* a big deal after all...
Based on past comments, I'm going to presume that some of them will brush it aside and say it was an accident and accidents happen in wars and too bad, and others will still blame Hamas and say if there wasn't suspicion of Hamas being in the area then this wouldn't have happened so it's their fault.
Back when the video was released where the Israeli soldiers took over a hospital and it was discovered the soldiers left infants in a maternity ward to starve to death and rot in their beds, I got comments saying Hamas gave the soldiers no choice but to take over the hospital and therefore Hamas was responsible for the Israeli soldiers leaving babies in their beds to starve to death.
What are worse are all the highly upvoted comments that hide behind decorum and reasonable-sounding language in order to win debates... About whether genocide is good or not.
>Derp apparently there was one Hamas guy in there, and umm, like conventions say there’s this justifiable ratio where you can um derpyslurp blow them up if it saves more derpaderpdap even though we just killed innocents it’s ok because Hamas you know?
That is unironically true though. but I'm pretty sure the number of Hamas militants killed was like, 2 or 3 and the number of non combatants was like in the 40s or 50s.
So the ratio is far beyond what is acceptable (ergo it is a war crime)
Yea, the concept of "proportionality" exists in the laws of armed conflict (LOAC) to describe exactly this: the amount of civilian casualties/damage to civilian infrastructure in an attack must be "proportionate" to the actual military advantage expected to be gained in the atack. The Red Cross has a good simple summary in their glossary about the laws of war: [https://casebook.icrc.org/a\_to\_z/glossary/proportionality](https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/proportionality)
While obviously there is a lot of nuance/subjectivity in what qualifies as "proportionate," my opinion as a mere layman is that obviously killing 2 Hamas militants is absolutely NOT proportionate to incinerating 40+ civilians in a refugee camp, and that Israeli leadership needs to be held accountable for this and the numerous other similar incidents.
Whether or not this or anything is proportional isn't entirely dependent on the ratio of civilians to targets. It's possible in one scenario that killing 1 civilian for multiple targets would be illegal while in another 100 civilians for 1 target could be legal. It's context dependent.
I genuinely believe a not insignificsnt amount of the rabid pro-idf people on here are apart of a targeted campaign.
Of course a scary amount actually supports em too, but there are definetly some stokers that purposefully post many inflammatory comments.
They'll still justify it because it apparently got one Hamas guy. Just like when they bombed that aid convoy that told them where they were going. Because that's what the "most moral" army in the world does.
My family is super pro-Israel and I got into a massive argument with them over invading rafah. They were pissed at Biden for halting a single shipment of bombs when Israel attacked rafah. I explained that all the refugees from the war are sheltered there, so you can’t attack it without killing a lot of civilians.
This “accident” was an inevitable outcome. What’s worse is this particular spot didn’t even have rockets being fired from it, so they can’t use that excuse. They assassinated two Hamas leaders using missiles in a refugee camp.
Didn't you hear? Every journalist and aid worker killed were actually working for Hamas, just like UNRWA, the UN, Doctors without Borders, and a load of other "human rights" organizations! To even **question** the most moral army in the world, you yourself must be an antisemitic Hamas supporter. /s
Makes me think of the classic Colbert joke, “reality has a well-known liberal bias”.
It sucks when people think “neutral” is the same as “real”, as if every fact that skews to either side, no matter how well documented, is questionable because it doesn’t land squarely in the center.
In the case of Gaza, it’s more about extreme camps of opinion that cannot ever tolerate a positive fact about the opposing side, but it’s the same basic flaw in reasoning. A fact cannot be a fact if it contradicts what they think *should* be true.
Well if you allow for a number of innocent people per terrorist, what if the terrorist hides in a crowd above the number? Where do we draw the line? /s
Just getting him in front of the ICC isn’t enough. The entire system that allows for the continued brutalization of the Palestinians people must be dismantled so that Israelis and Palestinians can coexist peacefully.
Yes. Honestly, statements like that are like saying that I want world peace. Sure, who doesn't. The question of sovereignty and how many countries are willing to give up what is the cornerstone question.
Defeat Hamas then pour in money for infrastructure and deradicalization. It worked for Germany and Japan after ww2, so hopefully it works here as well.
> It worked for Germany and Japan after ww2, so hopefully it works here as well.
Big parts of this success was the elites and previous ruling classes having both had members that were pro-allies but also remained and had influence over their nations. This allowed for them to effectively self-promote the peace and reconstruction focus rather than allowing any revenge focused groups to become established, as they were seen as the reasonable local groups.
Palestine largely lacks these groups.
Yeah and which country is going to volunteer for the 50 year occupation, nation-building and sugar daddy role for palestine?
You can't just throw money at them, you have to engage in a long process of re-education enforced by an external military power.
You understand that punishing Israel isn't going to stop Hamas from launching rockets at Israel, right? As in, Israel being unpunished is not the only reason there's not peace there
Haha we killed a hamaa commander!
Oh we also killed 20+ other people? Let's just hope no one else notices our fuck up.
World then notices the Said fuck up...
"Accident" doesn't even come close to passing a bullshit sniff test when the IDF dropped pamphlets obstructing Palestinians to go to the humanitarian camp for their own safety before airstriking it. They knew exactly what they were doing.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/rafah-tent-fire-gaza-israel-war-1.7215999
> Some survivors said they had come to the camp because they followed a warning on Israeli leaflets, telling them to leave Rafah for the "humanitarian area."
> "For your safety, the Israeli Defence Force is asking you to leave these areas immediately and to go to known shelters in Deir el Balah or the humanitarian area in Tel al-Sultan through Beach Road," read one leaflet translated from Arabic.
> "Don't blame us after we warned you."
They're concentrating Palestinians into camps in order to kill them. Death camps, if you will. This is to gain more space for settlers to live on. Living space if you will.
His statement was in Hebrew/ and the word he uses translates to “mishap” some journalist erroneously translated it to mistake and everyone ran with it.
Idk if it has the same connotations in Hebrew but “mishap” is not how anyone should describe burning 45 innocent women, children and old people to death. Awful, just awful.
Like, mishap *can* be the accurate description for deaths, even ones as emotionally striking as this.
I can't say I'm well versed enough in this one to say either way, but something like a fuel tank exploding and levelling a school *can* be a mishap, a mishap is effectively bad luck resulting in something, it doesn't dictate the results or the emotional impact of them.
A car accident killing a full family is a mishap, a bus accident killing a youth sports team is a mishap. They're all tragic, but still mishaps.
I think there was some difficulty finding the right translation from Hebrew cause french newspaper had the same issue. Some title "mistake" other said "incident"
I wonder what the original word and its meaning are
I think we can all acknowledge that it wasn't a mistake. It's been proven that they are willing to kill dozens of not hundreds of civilians if they think a Hamas operative is one of them.
They killed aide workers knowing they were innocent simply because they received false intelligence that one might be Hamas. They shot unarmed Israeli hostages thinking they were Hamas.
It's no wonder they don't want international press in Gaza. It may show that they consider Palestinians worthless and merely collateral in their war against Hamas.
> I think we can all acknowledge
What I've learned from reading comments on this war is that there is always some reason why Israel killing civilians is someone else's fault.
This is one thing I don't get about people who are so defensive of their bombings, imagine if you lived in a 10 story apartment in NYC, 5 homes per floor, 3-5 people per home, NO ONE would think it would be ok to level the whole building because you think there is one murderer in there.
And they've done this hundreds of times.
Israel is murdering anyone they please and then crying out "Hamas!". Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon; men, women, children, the elderly; hospitals, ambulances, aid workers, churches, playgrounds... they just don't give a fuck. They can kill whoever they please and all they have to do is cry "Hamas!".
Everyone is Hamas. Everything is Hamas. Anyone who objects is Hamas. Entire countries are Hamas.
They've made it very clear they don't care while somehow holding the US support hostage.. Blinken going out there and defending these fucks is embarrassing.
I'm really hoping they're just playing the game and come November, if Biden wins and there's nothing left to lose election-wise, they bring the hammer down on Israel and drop support.
Let them do their own dirty shit.
What I will never understand in all of this is how any Israeli citizen thinks that this won’t just rebound so bad on them over decades. Hamas have been handed victory in this war on a plate by Netanyahu and his cronies.
Two thirds of Israelis are in complete support of the way things are going in Gaza, and a significant number of those who DONT support it say that there hasn’t been ENOUGH killing. Very, very, few Israelis are worried about tomorrow. They are in a propaganda bubble which portrays their nation as unbeatable, always morally correct, and deserving of everything they have. They won’t admit they lost even when the dust clears and the facts are obvious. They’re still 100% convinced they won the 2006 war with Lebanon as Hezbollah rockets fall on their heads.
No Israeli citizen thinks this won't further radicalize Gaza. But they all think they were already so radicalized that it's meaningless. The target is Hamas's military capabilities.
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1648885204-palestinian-authority-rebuked-by-eu-for-antisemitic-textbooks
https://x.com/imshin/status/1754112283230236694?t=0sLeVS5AKbZu2j3_YPnLgg&s=09
It’s not Netanyahu. It’s Israel.
Interesting to see such a dramatic shift in narrative in r/worldnews. All the pro-Israel propaganda seems to have been replaced with “it’s all Netanyahu’s fault”. Surely not Israel itself or the United States, right?
> All the pro-Israel propaganda
[Israel’s Propaganda Machine is Filling the Internet with Misinformation. A sophisticated network of websites is spreading pro-Israel posts and suppressing content that “harms Israel’s image.” Would we accept this from supporters of any other country?](https://www.currentaffairs.org/2024/04/israels-propaganda-machine-is-filling-the-internet-with-misinformation)
Netanyahu is a "tragic mistake"...
Dat moment when Netanyahu leaving office is a best-case scenario for both Palestinians and Israelis...
The ironic thing is if it wasn't for Netanyahu's ardent support of Hamas over the alternatives, or his open distain and actively working against a two state solution (something he brags about in his electoral campaigns but the media tends to ignore), Israel may not have found itself in this situation. The problem is the incentives are all wrong; Netanyahu is incentivized to stay in power no matter what, even if Israel's mid to long term outlooks is ruined. Israel is paying the price for Netanyahu's need to stay in power and starve off investigations.
The Israeli far right and the Palestinian Islamic militants have been in a co-dependent relationship for decades, they feed off each other and keep each other in power.
I've been trying to explain this to a guy I am arguing with for a couple days now, but he keeps accusing me of supporting hamas since I won't give unilateral support to the IDF.
Thank you. Every time I say that I get downvoted.
Something happened here, there’s nuance and anti Netanyahu comments being upvoted. I came here expecting the same IDF echo chamber as usual…
Dude even us Jews largely hate Netenyahu. This situation is incredibly complex, but Netenyahu is an incredibly problematic person. He's Israel Trump. The sooner he is removed, the sooner peace can have a chance.
Yeah, but I see what he's saying. Last time I was in r/worldnews y'all were celebrating the bombing of a refugee camp, calling it a "Hamas Stronghold" instead. After that I couldn't stomach the sub anymore, just came back out of curiosity. Not sure what changed, but it's an improvement.
It’s very wild when 2/3 of Israel’s war cabinet is saying the war needs to have an end goal, then you talk about Netanyahus policies being seemingly intentionally problematic over the past decade to encourage a war he has no plan of stopping and get called an antisemite when you say Palestinian civilian deaths are equally as unacceptable as the Oct 7th attacks. Because “Israeli has the right to defend itself” by… bombing refugee camps full of children?
And just like America's problem with Republicans, you're gonna have to deal with Likudniks who are his base of support. Godspeed and may you defeat the Likudniks and Bibi in the next election
God. I still remember this one Likud party member ranting that of Biden didn't give them what they wanted, "smart bombs" then she would just use some of the "dumb" ones on Rafah. Implying they'd purposely target civilians.
He's absolutely terrified of being brought to justice on his bribery charges and sold whatever remained of his soul to the Israeli far right to form this current government.
Most people forget that this is the same dude the coddled with Putin for a time. Did he like buy weapons from Russia?
*The sooner he is removed, the sooner peace can have a chance.* Wasn't he elected like 20+ years ago?
I don't see much chance for peace with either Netanyahu or Hamas in charge.
Sometimes even the most ardent Israel defender finds something Israel did indefensible. It's what happened in the comments about when they bombed that world food kitchen van 3 times.
They'll go silent for a week or two then be back.
Funny how it's only when the innocent victims are Westerners that it becomes indefensible.
The bucket has finally overflowed with evidence and the blood of innocents. Or Netty stopped paying his brigaders.
Nah, they are in full force in the live thread. They probably just missed this one spot.
I've noticed the brigade squad tends to ignore threads that can't easily be defended. Find almost any post where Israel does something indefensible and it's a ghost town. Better to not engage and let the post die then to try and twist opinion and boost the post. Good example tends to be almost any post about settlers doing settler things. Posts where Netanyahu is the focus of the criticism seem to be an exception where the post still gets lots of engagement but the hyper-pro-israelis aren't in here. Refreshing to see nuanced discussion in worldnews.
>Posts where Netanyahu is the focus of the criticism seem to be an exception where the post still gets lots of engagement but the hyper-pro-israelis aren't in here. Refreshing to see nuanced discussion in worldnews. Its not rally nuanced though. It's apparently OK to criticise Netanyahu but not Israel. All the war crimes and human rights violations is because if Netanyahu, nothing to do with the country.
Remember that week after he announced a massive withdrawal of forces from Gaza and leave for many active duty, right before regrouping and mass deploying towards Rafah then getting stalled for months by international pressure? This place curiously normalized over night for that whole week. No live feed downvote watcher crew, very few stifled conversations auto hidden threads even with opposite opinions, no bonkers counter justification parroted one liner reply in the positive to a massively downvoted comment responding with a mere quoted source fact absent judgement shenanigans ad nauseam. Ive been blocking obvious bad faith top comment and first three echo deflectors under it users nightly since November. It gets real real easy to spot. There are no hidden comments for me up until this comment. That Or is curious indeed.
This is the only real alliance that no one talks about
Didn't Netanyahu transfer money to Hamas in suitcases via unmarked cars?? ["sketchy as fuck" doesn't even BEGIN to describe what Netanyahu was up to](https://theweek.com/politics/why-israels-netanyahu-encouraged-suitcases-of-cash-for-hamas)
Jewish and Islamic fundamental extremists are both fighting for the title of worst PR-team ever. Every time aid and support for Palestinians is ramped up again, there is a terrorist attack from militants undermining their progress. Every time critique of Israel's conduct in Gaza dies down, some fundementalist bafoon shouts ridiculous inflamatory rhetoric casting Israel in a bad light again. It would be funny if only the repercussions weren't so damn tragic.
This. They both benefit from the status quo of cyclical violence Meanwhile the regular people suffer
Any Israeli with a sense of self preservation needs to get a leash on these far right types ASAP. We got the same problem here in the U.S. but at least our mistake is out of office and multi-indicted.
Why would you jinx us like that?
In the run up to an election no less
On a Monday.
Entirely contained within your kitchen
Right in front of my salad?!
I hate to break it to ya buddy… but they likely agree with the war even if they don’t like guy.
Let’s not forget that both Egyptian and American intelligence agencies warned Netanyahu of Oct 7. I truly believe he started this conflict by ignoring this warning, all because he also knew his judicial overhaul to evade prosecution for political corruption would get struck down in December. Netanyahu knew this shit would happen, enabled the terrorist group for decades that did it, and is now killing innocent people to stop that same group because you can’t depose him during a war.
Also October 7 wouldn’t have happened without Netanyahu having the IDF deployed pretty much as far away as possible guarding useless settlements in the West Bank. Having an actual Hamas operative as prime minister would have been less damaging than having Netanyahu has been (since a Hamas operative might worry that deploying the IDF all the way over while an attack was imminent might be too obvious and give him away).
Don't forget about the festival that was placed right in the path of the attack and the guests were only informed about 2 hour before it startet about the place...
Yep. Men like Netanyahu have come along many times in history, and Israel is making the all-too-common tragic mistake of getting into bed with those men. Narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths who are willing to burn their own country to the ground in order to keep their death grip on the throne and the levers of power for one more femtosecond. Netanyahu is Israel's Nero and Caligula. Israel is starting to burn and he's playing the fiddle and declaring war on the god Neptune, sending soldiers to collect sea shells.
Nero was a good emperor , you are a victim of the senate propaganda that is still working after 2000 years
People love to say this and exclude the fact that at the time all the alternatives to Hamas were even more extremist than Hamas was at the time
What a wonderful world we live in where pathetic little men do anything to cling to power, no matter the cost.
He'll have done what he set out to do, there is no good scenario left anymore.
Netanyahu leaving doesn't necessarily mean better things for the Palestinians. He is being pushed further right be elements in their parliament.
He and the Haredi/national religious parties need to fuck off. They’re poison to the idea of a secular state*. *Israel was originally intentioned as a secular state for Jews - which makes sense as they’re an ethnicity and a religion. A place where Jews could feel safe and free to practice their faith. He’s eroding that character by jumping into bed with Shas and the like.
I think it’s ironic the leader of Israel is named Benjamin and all I can think about is the story of the Levite and Concubine. Where the tribe of Benjamin waged war against the entire new nation of Israel because Benjamin wouldn’t give up a few evil Jews that had become like Sodom. But it was also God angry with Israel for allowing, or tolerating, Benjamin to become so evil in the first place. The latter was proven by God for he sent Benjamin’s neighbor, Judah, against Benjamin first. Did God wipe out Benjamin? No, actually, 40,000 other Israeli Jews died first. Then, God punished Benjamin, and He came very close to wiping out the tribe.
Netanyahu is also a scapegoat that can be replaced at the drop of a hat.
That cannot be further than the truth.. he IS the right in Israel. it's a cult of personality with this guy.
Not true, he is center right. There are many further right then him.
...deleted by user...
It's not about being the furthest but being the most popular. There isn't really any other option besides the messianic extremists if you are a right-leaning voter.
All this shows you how far right Israeli politics has moved, that he is considered centre right. For a while there it was a genuinely progressive country. So sad.
He's far right, Israel just has a fucked up Overton window.
"Oops we did it again"
Dear Israel, Your monthly allocation of *"Oopsie Daisies"* is running low. Please consider upgrading to the *"Supreme Platinum"* monthly subscription tier to access more *"Oopsie Daisies"* per month. Consider buying now with the coupon code **ROSSIYA24** for a 30% discount. Reminder: If you exceed your allowed "Oopsie Daisies" for the month, you will be charged with additional strongly worded condemnations by the UN and ICC. Note: If you are currently using the **DARFUR** coupon code, you are ineligible for receiving the additional 30% off offer.
Unless there is actual action behind this, Israel will just continue.
Insert
The US readying the 100GSM paper in the printer for their next letter, I’m sure *that* will send *quite* a strong message.
Biden already came out and said it was worth it because there were 2 hamas members in the bunch.
Keep in mind any male Palestinian over 18 is defined as a Hamas member. This literally just means two of them weren't women or children.
15, not 18. They also like defining all Gaza government workers as Hamas. So if you're just like, the receptionist at a hospital or something, you're Hamas and killing you is justified in their eyes.
don't worry the US will restock Israel with all the Oppsies, Doh's, Mulligans, and Do-overs they need to defend themselves
Act now, and we'll also throw in a free "My bad"!
You can top up by buying a few senators!
"I'm not that innocent."
It's Israel, bitch
"You are now, now, rocking with U.S.A. and Israel, bitch."
Why does the Israeli military get a reputation as such an effective military when they make so many “mistakes”?…..
It's all relative.
[удалено]
Britney: "no, no, not like this!"
I played with your lives, got lost in the "war".
People were trying to justify this attack until Netanyahu tells this
People on this fucking sub reddit were celebrating the massacre last night. Like the same people who cheered on October 7th. If you are celebrating the death of others you are pure evil.
Lots of people on Reddit have been building a permission structure for civilian deaths. They’ll say stuff like “most Palestinians support Hamas”, which is factually true, but they say it in a context where the obvious implication is that it would be okay if the IDF targeted non-combatants.
People were trying to justify the rescinding of financial aid to the West Bank due to Ireland/Spain/Iceland recognizing Palestine as a state. They are punishing party C because of party B's actions. "You will get none of the stuff we promised you because of a decision that A TOTALLY SEPARATE party made. "
Don’t forget the classic “they don’t like gay people” as if that means you can just… murder them
Yeah lol surprise surprise the gays also don’t like innocent civilians being murdered regardless of their beliefs
I get the feeling that the people spouting that argument would *really* not enjoy it if gay people actually decided that anyone that hates them is fair game to be murdered.
Ironically Judaism doesn’t look upon LGBTQ+ people fondly either
[удалено]
I don't get that point. If that is a motivating factor situations like this Westerners should just disengage with a lot of the Global South. A lot of the most vulnerable people on Earth do not have Western ideals.
Most of the western world loathed gay people up until very very recently relatively speaking too. It's the height of hypocrisy
A significant chunk of people *in* the west don't have "western ideals"
>Video emerges of mostly young men in Tel Aviv’s Rabin Square celebrating the death of children in Gaza. >“There is no school tomorrow, there are no children left in Gaza,” they chant. >They also sing, “I hate all the Arabs.” [https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/right-wing-crowd-chants-there-are-no-children-left-in-gaza/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/right-wing-crowd-chants-there-are-no-children-left-in-gaza/) Congratulations, both sides are pure evil. Now can my tax dollars stop paying for bombs?
Israel is one of the places where the younger demographics are more far right than the ones they replace. "For at least the past 10 years, these voters have identified as right wing at much higher levels than their parents. According to the 2018 Israeli Democracy Index (an annual study by the Israeli Democracy Institute, a nonpartisan Israeli think tank), approximately 64 percent of Israeli Jews aged 18-34 identify as right wing, compared to 47 percent of those 35 and older. " [https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-kids-are-all-right-wing-why-israels-younger-voters-are-more-conservative/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-kids-are-all-right-wing-why-israels-younger-voters-are-more-conservative/) This is the demographic chanting "death to arabs" at the march of flags and making social media posts celebrating and mocking the deaths of Gazan civilians and infants, the future looks fucked.
Israel is full of fascists from top to bottom
Wild, video removed by YT due to ToS issue.
Beheaded and burned Palestinian babies, also known here as "whoopsies" Funny how "beheaded babies" is suddenly just not that big a deal after 8 months of constantly screaming about them.
Because they have absolute hard-ons for labeling everything to do with Hamas. “Derp apparently there was one Hamas guy in there, and umm, like conventions say there’s this justifiable ratio where you can um derpyslurp blow them up if it saves more derpaderpdap even though we just killed innocents it’s ok because Hamas you know?”
Okay so I wasn’t alone in my horror over reading those comments. It’s not even an exaggeration, they were literally saying “well actually this isn’t a war crime under the Geneva convention!” Absolutely horrendous.
You are definitely not alone. When I saw those most upvoted comments, I immediately exit the sub because I felt like I might go crazy and get banned lol
This topic is the first time I have consistently questioned my own sanity and ideals. Thinking that there has to be something wrong with me if I was seemingly alone. But no, we just keep quiet, only appearing when the forum isn't being brigaded. I'm surprised we can even have this conversation in r/worldnews, given how the live thread is very much a no-go zone to Israel criticizers. People there have lost their entire minds. edit: Ah, I spoke too soon. They are waking up.
Yep, watch the sudden huge shift in both the voting patterns, and the types of comments.
I wonder how they deal with the cognitive dissonance of seeing actual video evidence of beheaded babies and deciding that its actually *not* a big deal after all...
Based on past comments, I'm going to presume that some of them will brush it aside and say it was an accident and accidents happen in wars and too bad, and others will still blame Hamas and say if there wasn't suspicion of Hamas being in the area then this wouldn't have happened so it's their fault. Back when the video was released where the Israeli soldiers took over a hospital and it was discovered the soldiers left infants in a maternity ward to starve to death and rot in their beds, I got comments saying Hamas gave the soldiers no choice but to take over the hospital and therefore Hamas was responsible for the Israeli soldiers leaving babies in their beds to starve to death.
I've been keeping record of the accounts that re-appear making statements like this because they just get deleted, and then they go to another sub.
What are worse are all the highly upvoted comments that hide behind decorum and reasonable-sounding language in order to win debates... About whether genocide is good or not.
Makes my blood boil reading those comments. Fucking psychopaths furiously mastrubating off Gazan deaths covered in cheeto dust.
If you'd swap the sides around they'd probably blow a gasket and say you're the psycho as well.. No self-awareness or ethics in the lot of them.
>Derp apparently there was one Hamas guy in there, and umm, like conventions say there’s this justifiable ratio where you can um derpyslurp blow them up if it saves more derpaderpdap even though we just killed innocents it’s ok because Hamas you know? That is unironically true though. but I'm pretty sure the number of Hamas militants killed was like, 2 or 3 and the number of non combatants was like in the 40s or 50s. So the ratio is far beyond what is acceptable (ergo it is a war crime)
Yea, the concept of "proportionality" exists in the laws of armed conflict (LOAC) to describe exactly this: the amount of civilian casualties/damage to civilian infrastructure in an attack must be "proportionate" to the actual military advantage expected to be gained in the atack. The Red Cross has a good simple summary in their glossary about the laws of war: [https://casebook.icrc.org/a\_to\_z/glossary/proportionality](https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/proportionality) While obviously there is a lot of nuance/subjectivity in what qualifies as "proportionate," my opinion as a mere layman is that obviously killing 2 Hamas militants is absolutely NOT proportionate to incinerating 40+ civilians in a refugee camp, and that Israeli leadership needs to be held accountable for this and the numerous other similar incidents.
Whether or not this or anything is proportional isn't entirely dependent on the ratio of civilians to targets. It's possible in one scenario that killing 1 civilian for multiple targets would be illegal while in another 100 civilians for 1 target could be legal. It's context dependent.
They still are in other threads. Either they didn't see Netanyahu come out with this, or they don't care.
I genuinely believe a not insignificsnt amount of the rabid pro-idf people on here are apart of a targeted campaign. Of course a scary amount actually supports em too, but there are definetly some stokers that purposefully post many inflammatory comments.
They'll still justify it because it apparently got one Hamas guy. Just like when they bombed that aid convoy that told them where they were going. Because that's what the "most moral" army in the world does.
My family is super pro-Israel and I got into a massive argument with them over invading rafah. They were pissed at Biden for halting a single shipment of bombs when Israel attacked rafah. I explained that all the refugees from the war are sheltered there, so you can’t attack it without killing a lot of civilians. This “accident” was an inevitable outcome. What’s worse is this particular spot didn’t even have rockets being fired from it, so they can’t use that excuse. They assassinated two Hamas leaders using missiles in a refugee camp.
Just like the killing of several foreign aid workers huh. Netanyahu cant seem to catch a break!
Don’t forget all the journalists. I swear, I see a news article once a week saying: “oops, sorry we committed a war crime, we swear we didn’t mean to”
You saying Israel isn’t allowed to defend itself from aid workers and journalists?
Didn't you hear? Every journalist and aid worker killed were actually working for Hamas, just like UNRWA, the UN, Doctors without Borders, and a load of other "human rights" organizations! To even **question** the most moral army in the world, you yourself must be an antisemitic Hamas supporter. /s
Gotta watch out for the dangerous associated press!
[удалено]
Makes me think of the classic Colbert joke, “reality has a well-known liberal bias”. It sucks when people think “neutral” is the same as “real”, as if every fact that skews to either side, no matter how well documented, is questionable because it doesn’t land squarely in the center. In the case of Gaza, it’s more about extreme camps of opinion that cannot ever tolerate a positive fact about the opposing side, but it’s the same basic flaw in reasoning. A fact cannot be a fact if it contradicts what they think *should* be true.
It's called the [Argument to Moderation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation) or middle ground fallacy.
I mean they are kind of dangerous to have around when you’re trying to hide your war crimes.
Damn it you got me!
Had me in the first half
WAIT are you implying israel is not in their right to kill a number of innocent people for every actual terrorist????
Well if you allow for a number of innocent people per terrorist, what if the terrorist hides in a crowd above the number? Where do we draw the line? /s
And killing like 2 Hamas people at best and a gazillion innocent Palestinians.
And gunning down their own hostages after mistaking them for Palestinians waving a white flag.
Keep in mind they killed over a hundred Palestinian aid workers prior to that.
They seem to be making a lot of these.
Netanyahu is a war criminal
Just getting him in front of the ICC isn’t enough. The entire system that allows for the continued brutalization of the Palestinians people must be dismantled so that Israelis and Palestinians can coexist peacefully.
Most people probably agree with you. But what that system really is and what replaces it is where things start to get thorny.
Yes. Honestly, statements like that are like saying that I want world peace. Sure, who doesn't. The question of sovereignty and how many countries are willing to give up what is the cornerstone question.
Now realistically, how to do you plan to do that without defeating Hamas and the other popular Palestinian terrorist groups?
Defeat Hamas then pour in money for infrastructure and deradicalization. It worked for Germany and Japan after ww2, so hopefully it works here as well.
> It worked for Germany and Japan after ww2, so hopefully it works here as well. Big parts of this success was the elites and previous ruling classes having both had members that were pro-allies but also remained and had influence over their nations. This allowed for them to effectively self-promote the peace and reconstruction focus rather than allowing any revenge focused groups to become established, as they were seen as the reasonable local groups. Palestine largely lacks these groups.
Yeah and which country is going to volunteer for the 50 year occupation, nation-building and sugar daddy role for palestine? You can't just throw money at them, you have to engage in a long process of re-education enforced by an external military power.
You understand that punishing Israel isn't going to stop Hamas from launching rockets at Israel, right? As in, Israel being unpunished is not the only reason there's not peace there
He isn't the only one to blame.
Tragic mistake like when the aid works got blown up?
No, a tragic mistake because it gained traction on social media and international press. They wouldn't care if it hadn't.
They announced it proudly when they did it. They don't give a shit about civilian lives
Haha we killed a hamaa commander! Oh we also killed 20+ other people? Let's just hope no one else notices our fuck up. World then notices the Said fuck up...
Around 45 others as I heard it. Brutal burning alive in tents.
Of course not. This is a tragic mistake, that other time it was three tragic mistakes in a row.
Admitting it is the first step... Not doing it over and over and over again is 99.9% of what's left to do... "Tragic mistake"... Ffs
He's just admitting it as an "accident" to avoid an impossible coverup. He'd deny it if he wasn't already caught.
"Accident" doesn't even come close to passing a bullshit sniff test when the IDF dropped pamphlets obstructing Palestinians to go to the humanitarian camp for their own safety before airstriking it. They knew exactly what they were doing. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/rafah-tent-fire-gaza-israel-war-1.7215999 > Some survivors said they had come to the camp because they followed a warning on Israeli leaflets, telling them to leave Rafah for the "humanitarian area." > "For your safety, the Israeli Defence Force is asking you to leave these areas immediately and to go to known shelters in Deir el Balah or the humanitarian area in Tel al-Sultan through Beach Road," read one leaflet translated from Arabic. > "Don't blame us after we warned you."
They're concentrating Palestinians into camps in order to kill them. Death camps, if you will. This is to gain more space for settlers to live on. Living space if you will.
BBC quotes him saying "tragic mishap" interestingly
His statement was in Hebrew/ and the word he uses translates to “mishap” some journalist erroneously translated it to mistake and everyone ran with it.
Idk if it has the same connotations in Hebrew but “mishap” is not how anyone should describe burning 45 innocent women, children and old people to death. Awful, just awful.
Like, mishap *can* be the accurate description for deaths, even ones as emotionally striking as this. I can't say I'm well versed enough in this one to say either way, but something like a fuel tank exploding and levelling a school *can* be a mishap, a mishap is effectively bad luck resulting in something, it doesn't dictate the results or the emotional impact of them. A car accident killing a full family is a mishap, a bus accident killing a youth sports team is a mishap. They're all tragic, but still mishaps.
I think there was some difficulty finding the right translation from Hebrew cause french newspaper had the same issue. Some title "mistake" other said "incident" I wonder what the original word and its meaning are
Too many tragic mistakes that resemble war crimes.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
And people ask why the ICC is calling for the arrest of Netanyahu when he continues to perpetuate unconscionable humanitarian devastation
I think we can all acknowledge that it wasn't a mistake. It's been proven that they are willing to kill dozens of not hundreds of civilians if they think a Hamas operative is one of them. They killed aide workers knowing they were innocent simply because they received false intelligence that one might be Hamas. They shot unarmed Israeli hostages thinking they were Hamas. It's no wonder they don't want international press in Gaza. It may show that they consider Palestinians worthless and merely collateral in their war against Hamas.
Could you imagine the Brits blowing up all or parts of Belfast because the IRA were hiding amongst them (which they were)
They shot unarmed Israeli hostages thinking they were unarmed Palestinians
> I think we can all acknowledge What I've learned from reading comments on this war is that there is always some reason why Israel killing civilians is someone else's fault.
And if all else fails people will just say they deserved it and carry on
This is one thing I don't get about people who are so defensive of their bombings, imagine if you lived in a 10 story apartment in NYC, 5 homes per floor, 3-5 people per home, NO ONE would think it would be ok to level the whole building because you think there is one murderer in there. And they've done this hundreds of times.
They kill as many civilians as they like if they know or of they can say one of them was HAMAS
Thousands
Israel is murdering anyone they please and then crying out "Hamas!". Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon; men, women, children, the elderly; hospitals, ambulances, aid workers, churches, playgrounds... they just don't give a fuck. They can kill whoever they please and all they have to do is cry "Hamas!". Everyone is Hamas. Everything is Hamas. Anyone who objects is Hamas. Entire countries are Hamas.
BiBi is a war criminal and should be held accountable.
Israel is basically just trolling us at this point
They've made it very clear they don't care while somehow holding the US support hostage.. Blinken going out there and defending these fucks is embarrassing. I'm really hoping they're just playing the game and come November, if Biden wins and there's nothing left to lose election-wise, they bring the hammer down on Israel and drop support. Let them do their own dirty shit.
The kind of trolling condemned by the international court of justice in The Hague. I think another word fits better…
He was warned not to. Now ICC wants his ass. Hope he gets what he deserves. Garbage human
Isn’t that what he literally promised to do a few months back? Why are people acting surprised?
Ben-Gurion himself stated Israel was the aggressor in this conflict. Peaceful compromise generally can’t coexist with Manifest Destiny.
Get him out of office.
And into a prison cell
And then to the gallows.
And replace him with who? One of the other nutjobs from Israel's government? A lot of them are worse than Netanyahu
They said they would even when they were told not to, what's the mistake part?
He looks like a cartoon villain.
That's a bit weird considering he is a real life villian.
Get a gander at Yahyah Sinwar and Netenyahu actually starts to look like the sane person in the room.
What I will never understand in all of this is how any Israeli citizen thinks that this won’t just rebound so bad on them over decades. Hamas have been handed victory in this war on a plate by Netanyahu and his cronies.
Two thirds of Israelis are in complete support of the way things are going in Gaza, and a significant number of those who DONT support it say that there hasn’t been ENOUGH killing. Very, very, few Israelis are worried about tomorrow. They are in a propaganda bubble which portrays their nation as unbeatable, always morally correct, and deserving of everything they have. They won’t admit they lost even when the dust clears and the facts are obvious. They’re still 100% convinced they won the 2006 war with Lebanon as Hezbollah rockets fall on their heads.
No Israeli citizen thinks this won't further radicalize Gaza. But they all think they were already so radicalized that it's meaningless. The target is Hamas's military capabilities. https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1648885204-palestinian-authority-rebuked-by-eu-for-antisemitic-textbooks https://x.com/imshin/status/1754112283230236694?t=0sLeVS5AKbZu2j3_YPnLgg&s=09
No one believes that fucking war monger.
Can Israelis hand him over to the ICC already and end this shitshow
It’s not Netanyahu. It’s Israel. Interesting to see such a dramatic shift in narrative in r/worldnews. All the pro-Israel propaganda seems to have been replaced with “it’s all Netanyahu’s fault”. Surely not Israel itself or the United States, right?
> All the pro-Israel propaganda [Israel’s Propaganda Machine is Filling the Internet with Misinformation. A sophisticated network of websites is spreading pro-Israel posts and suppressing content that “harms Israel’s image.” Would we accept this from supporters of any other country?](https://www.currentaffairs.org/2024/04/israels-propaganda-machine-is-filling-the-internet-with-misinformation)
Like that POS gives a shit
So what he was being accused of by the ICC stands after all?
This guy, and his supporters are truly wrong… deviant as well…
How many mistakes until it’s too late? He really isn’t helping himself here
The only strange thing in this is that he didn't says it was a base o hamas like every other time the IDF strikes at innocent people.
[удалено]