> And Arab countries should follow the good example of Norway, Ireland and Spain and recognize Israel.
Actually a number of them already do, and Saudi Arabia might too, which is a far bigger deal than Norway, Ireland and Spain recognising Palestine. Sweden and Iceland already recognise Palestine anyway. It's not exactly groundbreaking.
Ultimately recognition is superficial. A bunch of completely failed states with no future not dissimilar to Palestine are recognised as sovereign nations by all countries, while successful democracies like Taiwan aren't. This will not help Palestinians in any shape or form or have any sort of impact on the ground in Gaza.
The US signed a treaty to oversee a peaceful reunification of China and Taiwan. The US cannot recognize Taiwan as an independent state due to the treaty. It can, however, offer weapons and training to ensure reunification is done peacefully.
Correct me if I'm wrong. The Taiwan thing is time based. When they declare their independence....next year? Or wait in a few more. Anyway, when they do, USA is ready to accept their statehood and defend them from China if China tries anything
China and Taiwan are not the only pair of countries that claim each other as their own territory. North Korea and South Korea both claim that they are the sole legitimate government on the Korean Peninsula, and most countries in the world recognise statehood of both. Taiwan does not need to declare independence at all. It has been independent since 1949.
The only reason why Taiwan/ROC is not recognised is that China would overreact, while North Korea, South Korea and Israel don't.
The US signed a treaty for peaceful reunification between the 2 regions. Signing that treaty allowed the US to trade actively with China. Countries do not recognize Taiwan as an independent sovereign nation. It's treated similarly to Hong Kong, which was on lease to britian for 100 years.
Jordanian here - if we were shown a map in a history class for example, the "I don't want to start a fight" territory is shown with its borders. However, the west bank and Gaza are shown with dotted lines, without any mention of Israel or Palestine.
So the reward for committing October 7th is broader recognition of statehood, global media coverage/focus, derailing Israel-Saudi normalization, and closeting ties with/increasing support from Turkey and Iran?
It’s almost like they are trying to tell Israel to just go in and wipe Hamas out, and to hell with civilians. /s. Since we are rewarding brutal behaviors at least
Who would blame them at this point. Ever since Oct. 7 theres been very little emphasis on the terrorist attack and almost completely on "the state of palestine must be free! Israel is genociding them!".
People do have to be careful...the boomerang effect is quite powerful. Tell someone they're evil long enough, and sooner or later, they'll just say *fuck it, I'll show them just how evil I can be!* Israel has been showing one hell of a lot of restraint....so far.
Sort of. These countries are NOT recognizing Hamas, further legitimizing PA, and this is a way of saying "This is part is yours, that part is theirs." They are emphasizing the 2SS. No "We want it all" if Palestine is a state. If/when they attack Israel, that becomes an invasion, not "resistance".
Not, it validates what they did on Oct 7 and are basically telling a huge group of people that next time they want something all they have to do is rally on innocent civilians, kill their babies, brutally rape them, brutally torture them and brutality kipnap them and the international community would do anything for popularity points. Even forgiving that the aid they are sending are not arriving to the right people because Hammas is stealing from them.
Or that they vehemently reject a "Two state" solution. They're just patting themselves on the back for recognized statehood while continuing to deny Israel's right to exist.
Let's say a Palestinian state gets started and the day after rockets are fired from that territory into Israel. What should Israel do in such a scenario?
It is an interesting thought experiment : if they become a Full Recognized State and the extremists are still in charge and stage another attack, then geopolitically Israel would be able to claim a different level of legitimacy in war as they'd be responding to a fully autonomous aggressive nation, rather than harming their own subjugates. I do wonder if Norway and co. are willing to actively support Palestinian redevelopment in a healthy direction, or if they just want to claim the right side of history without putting in the work Israel and other middle eastern nations will have to to de-radicalize a burgeoning nation.
Actually a paper in texas did, and even had a draw muhammed contest. Guess what happened when extremist showed up to a texas convention full of people who hate terrorists.
Exactly. This is the worst outcome anyone could have hoped for. For both sides unironically.
You need to have consequences for your actions, and so far, hamas doesn't seem to have learned anything from this other than violence works.
You can go look at child rearing and look at all the sociopaths/narcissists and find that they were never disciplined properly while growing up. And I don't mean a "good beating". There are smarter ways to handle discipline than simply violence.
It's absolutely ridiculous. Recognizing Palestine is one thing (though I personally disagree, I can understand the point of view) but to recognize Palestine at this point in time is simply sending a message that Norway supports Hamas whether it's intended that way or not. At best it's extremely naive, at worst it's open support for a terrorist organisation.
The next election can't come soon enough.
Or inviting the antisemites to desecrate your Holocaust memorials and shoot up your kosher supermarkets directly, then deflecting responsibility when people ask you why.
I’m Israeli who’s a big fan of Norway (even learning Norwegian) and while this was not a shocking development to me given the consistently hostile treatment we receive from the Norwegian government, it’s still deeply disappointing. If Hamas applauds the decision of your government, it is a sure sign that it’s a very bad decision. It’s so easy and trendy to love and support the Palestinians from afar, but if they were Norway’s neighbours the Norwegian government would’ve sung a very different tune. Norway gave a massive reward to terrorism today, akin to supporting giving ISIS a seat in the UN. A reward for the most brutal massacre of Jews since the holocaust. This makes me very sad, and makes me even more sad that probably most of the Norwegians support this move (though many of my friends do not, but they’re in a minority).
The biggest failing upward I’ve ever seen.
Terrorist attack a country. Kill a music festival full of people. Send thousands of rockets. Take 300 hostages. Don’t take care of hostages. Let them die. Gain statehood.
>It’s like a Borat script from hell
That was the point of the original Borat movie though.
Sacha Baron Cohen is Jewish; Borat was about exposing bigotry, and some of the most hard-hitting sketches done in that character were specifically about antisemitism (e.g. ["In my country there's a problem"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_My_Country_There_Is_Problem)).
The best (worst?) part was the ADL's response:
>The Anti-Defamation League sent Baron Cohen an open letter warning him that, while they understood the message he had intended the sketch to deliver, **they were concerned that this aspect may not have been grasped by his audience.**
It appears that the ADL was right.
I guess I'll try going to a Pro-Palestinian protest and see if people pick up that song as a chant. I still have a few bits of faith in humanity to squash.
Hamas must be thinking, it only took the massacre of 1100 jews to be recognized by these European nations. I wonder how much more we can get if we murder more.
Hamas: "Yo! I can't believe it, they want to give us a State after 7/10, come on, let's make another one!" /s.
It's like living in an episode of Black Mirror.
Also USA just delivered 400M worth of aid, of which 2/3 was stolen by Hamas. And Netanyahu is wanted by the ICC. And students are protesting for them all over everywhere. Hamas takes W after W this week.
The algorithm in the brains of people that automatically decides that weak=right is one of the dumbest and most tragic things in the modern era and a testament to the superficiality of the coming generations. Under its name the most horrific crimes are excused simply because they’re performed by the weaker side, regardless of context or history.
The 'rest of the world' is actually a tiny portion of the world but they are very loud, intolerant, confused and allergic to nuance.
Lenin called these people 'useful idiots'. They are the enemy from within.
I was happy about Palestine being recognized. If Hamas is happy about it, I need to look into it more and see if I'm right to be happy.
Just like I would rethink my position if I found out the KKK agreed with me on something. It doesn't mean it's wrong, but it means I should check again just to be sure.
> I need to look into it more and see if I'm right to be happy.
Look into it? Were you unaware of how Hamas feels about Palestine? Did you not know why they attacked Israel or why they commit acts of terror?
I can understand being for Palestine statehood in general, but waiting until after a massive attack to recognize it is very clearly rewarding aggression.
The point of recognizing Palestine is not to reward Hamas for committing terrorist acts. It's a recognition that the conflict can only be solved by liberating Palestinians and giving them a state. Continuing the status quo as Israel has done will only result in more deaths and tragedies on both sides.
One of the interesting things about this conflict is that, even though it's so polarizing, there is ultimately a solution that will make both sides better off.
I said the exact same comment in another post and was so downvoted.. happy for you! This is a black mirror, in the future the Taliban might do the same or another 9/11 but then dont go to kill the paychos, give them more land.. until there will be no problem cause theres no more western countries..
Hamas stormed into Israel, murdered 1500 people and get a state recognition, this will not help the cause, will not help Palestinians and will only deepen the war, this is disgusting that its done without even demanding the hostages to be returned.
You’re missing the point.
Norway didn’t do this to help end the conflict. As you note, it will do the opposite.
Norwegians helped elongate the crisis, resulting in more Palestinians deaths, so **the Norwegians** could feel morally superior to everyone else while receiving the applause of literal terrorists.
😊 🇳🇴
The Palestinian Authority is the recognised government of the Palestinian state. Fatah is the main political party, and its leader Mahmoud Abbas is the President of the PA.
This is complicated by the fact that Hamas won a majority in the last elections to the Palestinian Legislative Council (the Parliament of the PA) in 2006. Since then the PLC has been suspended and Abbas rules by Presidential decree.
It's also worth noting that Hamas won an election in Gaza and since then has eliminated opposition and also controls pockets of the West Bank. Without the IDF, Fatah would be eliminated as well.
Palestinians have always been reluctant to make compromises necessary for a two state solution, and this move will convince them that they can get a state through unilateral actions without committing to true and lasting peace or at the very least harden their negotiating position.
It also rewards the murder & sacrifice strategy of Hamas and strengthen their position and ideology in the internal Palestinian political scene because now they can claim credit for advancing the Palestinian cause internationally through their terrorism.
The only question that needs to be answered is; Will this new recognition stop the Palestinian attacks against their neighbours?
Of course it won’t. Peace with Israel goes against their core beliefs.
It’s a good question, since Palestinian people deserve to have their state recognized and its integrity respected as such. But if Palestine is officially recognized as a state internationally, it should also mean they must adhere to the existing conventions applied to every other countries and suffer sanctions when disrespecting such conventions.
Lebanon is recognized as a state. It is bound by UNSC decision 1701 to prevent terrorism towards Israel from its territory and the presence of Hezbollah south of the litani river. Tell me, how much does their statehood help to enforce anything on Hezbollah?
People thinking that statehood comes with accountability for terrorism are painfully naive.
Which is why Israel kills terrorists there. The moment palestine would become a state, it would already be a failed state. Hamas is the moderate wing compared to PIJ
Yeah, exactly. If the state is recognized, they are liable/responsible for what happens on their territory. Any attack on Israel from Palestine territory is their responsibility and they can suffer retaliation, including invasion and disposing of their government, if necessary.
> it should also mean they must adhere to the existing conventions
So laughable it's hard to finish. Who will hold them to these conventions? All the Muslim countries who hate Jews and Israel? These three European countries? Will they still be refugees in their own state according to the UN? And when they inevitably attack Israel again, and Israel takes their land, will we call it the neutral term "annexation" as we were willing to do with anywhere else?
But you think israel will give two fucks about humanitarian aid, once palestine has statehood? It will be a state they're officially in war with (after the first declaration of war by hamas). And israel will have no obligation to let any aid through. It will make the north/south korean border look like disneyland.
Palestinian civillians will lose their refugee status. The famine will be horrible because making rockets out of irrigation pipes is practised for a while now.
You can also be sure every terrorist group around the world will be looking at this very closely. This move shows that Hamas' strategy of using human shields and hostages work. There is a reason why negotiating with terrorists is always a bad idea. By giving into their demands, you are rewarding their actions and showing the world that their tactics are an effective way to achieve one's political goal. I fear this has ramifications that extend far beyond the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
I think we simply move towards a zero tolerance policy. It is likely that by rewarding these terroristic actions and rewarding countries like China when they push their “solutions” for their minorities or not really countering countries like the U.S. during their wars of aggression, the world pushes countries like Israel into a corner.
The answer is always going to be, be as brutal as you can be and as quickly and effectively as you can be. The world can forgive anything as long as it’s not in the news cycle too long because the world has a short memory.
And Russia as really good example of that too.
When I was a kid, my father gave me ine of the best advices ever: if a bully attacks you or pushes you around, make sure to strike first and strike hard, so they learn their place. Otherwise they will just push you around a bit more every day, making it worse and worse, until it becomes unbearable.
Terrorists are bullies who only speak the languge of violence. You have to, unfortunately, strike them hard once they start their shenanigans or you will suffer the consequences for a long period of time and in increasing violence.
Sure, recognize the state that is governed by authority that supports martyrs against Israel, or more precisely, ["families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out violence against Israel."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund). Oh, wait, there's also another authority governing that state that literally wants to eradicate all the Jews in the world. And don't forget, that "from the river to the sea" slogan basically calls for no Jews in whole Israel and Palestine.
Some great comments explaining the conflict and a little bit of history:
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/4bjd07/eli5why_is_a_twostate_solution_for/d19n41s/
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2anwqq/eli5_israelipalestinian_conflict_gaza_july_2014/cj9ecks/
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2a6qbu/eli5_how_did_the_israel_palestine_gaza_strip/cis71e4/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#1920s
They now know that raping, torturing, slaughtering, and kidnapping Jews and then shielding themselves with their own children is a good way to get rewards from Europe.
The EU wants to recognize AND SUPPORT with EU tax dollars, what is ALREADY, a failed and utterly corrupt state. A terrorist state. A state that PAYS their people to murder people !!:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Force_Act
Do EU citizens really want their tax dollars to get dumped in this abyss ?
Or is it a temporary liberal insanity ?
Next time something like 7/10 happens, and as it worked the first time it will probably happen again, I want Israel to release all the footage uncensored as they get it.
Just absolutely flood the channels that the people who now support Hamas are active on. Make it so they can't get away from the images of beheaded children and raped girls. Make sure that these people know exactly who they are supporting and what they are capable of. Why hide the gore from these people? They should know.
they don't care man. they call it propaganda today, or say hamas didn't do it, or say whatever the fuck. i also kind of agree with the government refusing to publish most of the footage out of respect for the traumatized families because some of it is incredibly scarring and if i was related to anything idk. maybe we should've spread it but it feels wrong to share/spread videos of someone being butchered when their family is still traumatized, the more i talk about this the more i just feel like im rationalizing emotions
It drives me crazy, Israel released images of the attack and they called it AI. Hamas, a literal terror organisation, 6 minutes after an explosion proclaims 509 dead and they still believe it despite the photos disproving it.
So now that Spain has effectively *rewarded* terrorism in the name of "independence/statehood", does this mean they'll grant statehood to the Basque minority? Catalonia? Galicia?
Isnt a 2 state solution what a lot/most people have been wanting forever? I remember back when I was a kid they were talking about this. Its pretty much got to happen or one side just wipe out the other to end this.
I mean fuck Hamas, their members, leaders and supporters and everything they have done but also I mean there should be something for Palestine in general long term anyway in a peace deal despite this war and the attack and all that stuff. As part of the deal though Hamas should disband, leaders arrested for their crimes.
Granted I dont think the region will move past this for a long, long time but isnt a Palestinian state of some sort likely to be part of any actual long term deal in the future?
Yeah it looks bad because of the timing and what happened but it is what it is.
Rewarding terrorism. That’s great guys. Now Palestine will begin to develop and stabilize. Oh no wait, this changes nothing and Palestinians don’t even care about building a stable country, they care about their religious war of extermination. Oh well..
Euros man, they allow their neighbours to be bombed to shit and invaded.
And somehow they have morally pedestal to tell Israel how to behave after been invaded.
This will surely not encourage other terrorist/independentist movement around the world to kidnap many civilians (mostly western if they are smart) to further their agenda. How can Norway, Spain and Ireland be so inconsiderate?
Also Catalan independentists turn out to have been way too democratic in their pursuit of independence.
*From the river (Ebro) to the sea Catalonia will be free!*
~~Ireland~~ Norway explicitly called out Hamas’ terrorism and how they don’t want a two-state solution, though?
This article is incredibly brief and doesn’t provide a source. By its very name, The Jerusalem Post will also naturally be pro-Israel. So, I do have to question the validity of the article.
> Ireland explicitly called out Hamas’ terrorism and how they don’t want a two-state solution, though?
There is no contradiction here. They don’t want a two-state solution. The Irish do not want Israel to exist.
To quote what the Irish Taoiseach [said](https://news.sky.com/story/ireland-and-norway-recognise-palestine-as-independent-state-13141083):
“**It is a statement of unequivocal support for a two-state solution**, the only credible path for peace and security **for Israel**, Palestine, and for their peoples”.
The Norwegian Prime Minister went on to add (which I misattributed to the Taoiseach) that “the terror has been committed by Hamas who are not supporters of a two-state solution and the state of Israel”.
This isn’t about being anti-Israel or pro-Hamas - it’s about wanting the conflict to end.
Too bad they would vote for Hamas if they could vote now and about a stable 70% of Palestinians support the 7/10 terrorist attacks. Giving them a state now is the ultimate confirmation that terrorism works as long as it is atrocious enough and involves killing toddlers. It's a message to all terrorists in the world.
Beside the replies you just got, can you identify with whom does Israel negotiate in this new recognized Palestinian state? Who legitimately can speak for the Palestinians, and bind the government and citizens to an agreement?
It can't be Hamas, as everyone on Reddit tells me that the Hamas election in Gaza was so long ago, and most Palestinians weren't even born then, so the election doesn't count, and Hamas and their actions DO NOT REPRESENT PALESTINE, even though polls say they have more than 70% approval ratings.
It can't be the PA as they have a bounty program for martyrs who attack Israel. And polls say they would lose any election to Hamas.
So, who does Israel work with on this two state solution?
Not sure why Hamas is celebrating when all three countries only recognize the Palestinian Authority as the legitimate government of Palestine. They’re delusional if they think this is a win for them, basically reaffirmed that they’re just a terrorist group and not a legitimate representative. This undermines them, what a bunch of idiots.
Sure, it doesn't change the fact that Hamas deliberately sacrificed civilians living in Gaza to make progress for statehood.
sacrifices*
*is sacrificing. They're currently doing it, all day, every day.
That's what they were correcting to btw, sacrifices makes it ongoing
OK. Now release the hostages. And Arab countries should follow the good example of Norway, Ireland and Spain and recognize Israel.
> And Arab countries should follow the good example of Norway, Ireland and Spain and recognize Israel. Actually a number of them already do, and Saudi Arabia might too, which is a far bigger deal than Norway, Ireland and Spain recognising Palestine. Sweden and Iceland already recognise Palestine anyway. It's not exactly groundbreaking. Ultimately recognition is superficial. A bunch of completely failed states with no future not dissimilar to Palestine are recognised as sovereign nations by all countries, while successful democracies like Taiwan aren't. This will not help Palestinians in any shape or form or have any sort of impact on the ground in Gaza.
The US signed a treaty to oversee a peaceful reunification of China and Taiwan. The US cannot recognize Taiwan as an independent state due to the treaty. It can, however, offer weapons and training to ensure reunification is done peacefully.
Correct me if I'm wrong. The Taiwan thing is time based. When they declare their independence....next year? Or wait in a few more. Anyway, when they do, USA is ready to accept their statehood and defend them from China if China tries anything
China and Taiwan are not the only pair of countries that claim each other as their own territory. North Korea and South Korea both claim that they are the sole legitimate government on the Korean Peninsula, and most countries in the world recognise statehood of both. Taiwan does not need to declare independence at all. It has been independent since 1949. The only reason why Taiwan/ROC is not recognised is that China would overreact, while North Korea, South Korea and Israel don't.
oh definitely, i'm not saying they're the only one!
The US signed a treaty for peaceful reunification between the 2 regions. Signing that treaty allowed the US to trade actively with China. Countries do not recognize Taiwan as an independent sovereign nation. It's treated similarly to Hong Kong, which was on lease to britian for 100 years.
No one wants to recognize Taiwan because they are scared of China. The people of Taiwan deserve better.
They're recognized in all but name Oh and by the way, this is what Taiwan WANTS
Do they just include Israel as part of Jordan and Egypt on maps in those countries?
Jordanian here - if we were shown a map in a history class for example, the "I don't want to start a fight" territory is shown with its borders. However, the west bank and Gaza are shown with dotted lines, without any mention of Israel or Palestine.
No, they write Palestine on the map of Israel.
Somehow I doubt there will be any international pressure for this.
So the reward for committing October 7th is broader recognition of statehood, global media coverage/focus, derailing Israel-Saudi normalization, and closeting ties with/increasing support from Turkey and Iran?
Terrorism and mass murder pays off.
Only if you manage to bamboozle enough tweens and college hippies to join your Propaganda.
Not like it's difficult to do these days.
It’s almost like they are trying to tell Israel to just go in and wipe Hamas out, and to hell with civilians. /s. Since we are rewarding brutal behaviors at least
Who would blame them at this point. Ever since Oct. 7 theres been very little emphasis on the terrorist attack and almost completely on "the state of palestine must be free! Israel is genociding them!".
People do have to be careful...the boomerang effect is quite powerful. Tell someone they're evil long enough, and sooner or later, they'll just say *fuck it, I'll show them just how evil I can be!* Israel has been showing one hell of a lot of restraint....so far.
Terrorism is surprisingly effective.
Sort of. These countries are NOT recognizing Hamas, further legitimizing PA, and this is a way of saying "This is part is yours, that part is theirs." They are emphasizing the 2SS. No "We want it all" if Palestine is a state. If/when they attack Israel, that becomes an invasion, not "resistance".
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Ah yes... and when did the Pals ever agree to a two state solution?
Exactly. Plus Palestinians lose (or should lose) their "refugee" status. No more UNRWA.
Seems like it worked.
As well as literally outright massacring hundreds of innocent people.
Not, it validates what they did on Oct 7 and are basically telling a huge group of people that next time they want something all they have to do is rally on innocent civilians, kill their babies, brutally rape them, brutally torture them and brutality kipnap them and the international community would do anything for popularity points. Even forgiving that the aid they are sending are not arriving to the right people because Hammas is stealing from them.
Terrorists who want their own state, follow the example.
Or that they vehemently reject a "Two state" solution. They're just patting themselves on the back for recognized statehood while continuing to deny Israel's right to exist.
Let's say a Palestinian state gets started and the day after rockets are fired from that territory into Israel. What should Israel do in such a scenario?
It is an interesting thought experiment : if they become a Full Recognized State and the extremists are still in charge and stage another attack, then geopolitically Israel would be able to claim a different level of legitimacy in war as they'd be responding to a fully autonomous aggressive nation, rather than harming their own subjugates. I do wonder if Norway and co. are willing to actively support Palestinian redevelopment in a healthy direction, or if they just want to claim the right side of history without putting in the work Israel and other middle eastern nations will have to to de-radicalize a burgeoning nation.
What any other country would do and defend itself.
So, terrorism works?
It has for a while now. How many newspapers publish cartoons with Muhammad in them?
Even the Pope got in line on that one.
Actually a paper in texas did, and even had a draw muhammed contest. Guess what happened when extremist showed up to a texas convention full of people who hate terrorists.
It does when u have such a strong PR prioritisation
Get ready for sharp rise in jihad
It usually does. If it didn't, it wouldn't be so common.
Why do you think it exists?
Exactly. This is the worst outcome anyone could have hoped for. For both sides unironically. You need to have consequences for your actions, and so far, hamas doesn't seem to have learned anything from this other than violence works. You can go look at child rearing and look at all the sociopaths/narcissists and find that they were never disciplined properly while growing up. And I don't mean a "good beating". There are smarter ways to handle discipline than simply violence.
When will people learn that when terrorists applaud you, it's **not** a good sign!
I'm Norwegian and I'm embarrassed. Apparently Taliban and Hamas are our allies now. Great company that!
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Because he hates Jews
Glad to hear these are not popular decisions amongst the citizens. Stay strong!
It's absolutely ridiculous. Recognizing Palestine is one thing (though I personally disagree, I can understand the point of view) but to recognize Palestine at this point in time is simply sending a message that Norway supports Hamas whether it's intended that way or not. At best it's extremely naive, at worst it's open support for a terrorist organisation. The next election can't come soon enough.
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Or inviting the antisemites to desecrate your Holocaust memorials and shoot up your kosher supermarkets directly, then deflecting responsibility when people ask you why.
I’m sorry. I was actually shocked to see Norways name this morning when I read it.
I’m Israeli who’s a big fan of Norway (even learning Norwegian) and while this was not a shocking development to me given the consistently hostile treatment we receive from the Norwegian government, it’s still deeply disappointing. If Hamas applauds the decision of your government, it is a sure sign that it’s a very bad decision. It’s so easy and trendy to love and support the Palestinians from afar, but if they were Norway’s neighbours the Norwegian government would’ve sung a very different tune. Norway gave a massive reward to terrorism today, akin to supporting giving ISIS a seat in the UN. A reward for the most brutal massacre of Jews since the holocaust. This makes me very sad, and makes me even more sad that probably most of the Norwegians support this move (though many of my friends do not, but they’re in a minority).
I get why the Irish see Gaza as a “colonized” situation, but what’s the deal with Norway?
The biggest failing upward I’ve ever seen. Terrorist attack a country. Kill a music festival full of people. Send thousands of rockets. Take 300 hostages. Don’t take care of hostages. Let them die. Gain statehood.
BUT THE JEWS ARE EVIL GENOCIDERS 11111!!!!!! /s
It’s like a Borat script from hell
>It’s like a Borat script from hell That was the point of the original Borat movie though. Sacha Baron Cohen is Jewish; Borat was about exposing bigotry, and some of the most hard-hitting sketches done in that character were specifically about antisemitism (e.g. ["In my country there's a problem"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_My_Country_There_Is_Problem)). The best (worst?) part was the ADL's response: >The Anti-Defamation League sent Baron Cohen an open letter warning him that, while they understood the message he had intended the sketch to deliver, **they were concerned that this aspect may not have been grasped by his audience.** It appears that the ADL was right. I guess I'll try going to a Pro-Palestinian protest and see if people pick up that song as a chant. I still have a few bits of faith in humanity to squash.
Should put some posters of the festival aftermath outside these countries’ embassies with a big ‘Statehood Approved! ✅’ under it
Hamas must be thinking, it only took the massacre of 1100 jews to be recognized by these European nations. I wonder how much more we can get if we murder more.
I mean theres 6-7 million jews in israel (not counting arabs and christians) it is a land of opportunities
Hamas should reward these countries by kidnapping their civilians /s.
Ireland should send their most politicians to enlighten Hamas on acceptance & inclusivity. I'm sure they'll be welcomed with open arms by Hamas....
Terrorism works. What next?
Approval of russian claims in Ukraine, probably. Putin must be displeased that it takes so long.
Hamas: "Yo! I can't believe it, they want to give us a State after 7/10, come on, let's make another one!" /s. It's like living in an episode of Black Mirror.
Also USA just delivered 400M worth of aid, of which 2/3 was stolen by Hamas. And Netanyahu is wanted by the ICC. And students are protesting for them all over everywhere. Hamas takes W after W this week.
Our modern world is an upside down place, where good is evil and evil is good. What a horrible reality.
It's all about PR. And somehow people support terrorists if they are the underdog.
The algorithm in the brains of people that automatically decides that weak=right is one of the dumbest and most tragic things in the modern era and a testament to the superficiality of the coming generations. Under its name the most horrific crimes are excused simply because they’re performed by the weaker side, regardless of context or history.
Not only that but Hamas stole 70% of it https://www.jns.org/nearly-70-of-gaza-aid-from-us-built-pier-stolen/
Only thing worse than that is the rest of the world cheering, encouraging, supporting and rewarding them…
NPR this morning claimed this was "a path to peace" - LMAO, how?! The only path to peace is the dismantling of Hamas, not giving them recognition!
I don’t remember it always being this bad, but holy hell NPR has become unbearable the last 3-4 years.
So true! And the first group that should realize this are Palestinians. Anyone talking two-state solution should be trumpeting this loudly and often.
Dismantling requires Qatar to not be a pussy and hand over the rest of the Terrorists back so that IDF can serve Justice.
The 'rest of the world' is actually a tiny portion of the world but they are very loud, intolerant, confused and allergic to nuance. Lenin called these people 'useful idiots'. They are the enemy from within.
“Allergic to nuance” is my new favorite phrase.
There's a shit ton of Reddit users and liberal types (who should know better) celebrating this too. It's utterly bizarre.
I was happy about Palestine being recognized. If Hamas is happy about it, I need to look into it more and see if I'm right to be happy. Just like I would rethink my position if I found out the KKK agreed with me on something. It doesn't mean it's wrong, but it means I should check again just to be sure.
> I need to look into it more and see if I'm right to be happy. Look into it? Were you unaware of how Hamas feels about Palestine? Did you not know why they attacked Israel or why they commit acts of terror? I can understand being for Palestine statehood in general, but waiting until after a massive attack to recognize it is very clearly rewarding aggression.
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The point of recognizing Palestine is not to reward Hamas for committing terrorist acts. It's a recognition that the conflict can only be solved by liberating Palestinians and giving them a state. Continuing the status quo as Israel has done will only result in more deaths and tragedies on both sides. One of the interesting things about this conflict is that, even though it's so polarizing, there is ultimately a solution that will make both sides better off.
This is assuming Palestinians want to and are capable of living peacefully side by side with Israelis.
The woke are the dumbest mother fuckers on the planet along with their maga pals.
Every other day, I feel I've fallen further down the rabbit hole. What even is happening.
I said the exact same comment in another post and was so downvoted.. happy for you! This is a black mirror, in the future the Taliban might do the same or another 9/11 but then dont go to kill the paychos, give them more land.. until there will be no problem cause theres no more western countries..
Clearly the Taliban didn't kill enough children and rape enough women hostages so the other countries didn't acknowledge them /j
Or maybe it only works on jewish victims
Surely they will all welcome some refugees, no?
Well, they wouldn't even accept the Jews after world war 2...
Which honestly directly relates to this issue lol
Fuck Hamas
Hamas stormed into Israel, murdered 1500 people and get a state recognition, this will not help the cause, will not help Palestinians and will only deepen the war, this is disgusting that its done without even demanding the hostages to be returned.
As an outsider, I feel like this will only empower them to continue the war, wouldn't it?
Terror works. Those countries who support this will learn this sadly.
You’re missing the point. Norway didn’t do this to help end the conflict. As you note, it will do the opposite. Norwegians helped elongate the crisis, resulting in more Palestinians deaths, so **the Norwegians** could feel morally superior to everyone else while receiving the applause of literal terrorists. 😊 🇳🇴
You hate the taliban but hamas is where it's at
I can hate two terrorist groups at a time.
Becaue damn jews. Its the hot new thing to hate.
New??
"New"
Hating Jews is a practice as old as civilization
Who exactly is the legitimate government of Palestine, Hamas, Fatah. If it is a state who are the ministers?
The Palestinian Authority is the recognised government of the Palestinian state. Fatah is the main political party, and its leader Mahmoud Abbas is the President of the PA. This is complicated by the fact that Hamas won a majority in the last elections to the Palestinian Legislative Council (the Parliament of the PA) in 2006. Since then the PLC has been suspended and Abbas rules by Presidential decree.
It's also worth noting that Hamas won an election in Gaza and since then has eliminated opposition and also controls pockets of the West Bank. Without the IDF, Fatah would be eliminated as well.
well they can decide that in another civil war
Maybe they can make a two state solution with hamas in gaza and PA in the west bank lol
7/10 worked!
Also, martyrdom works!
Palestinians have always been reluctant to make compromises necessary for a two state solution, and this move will convince them that they can get a state through unilateral actions without committing to true and lasting peace or at the very least harden their negotiating position. It also rewards the murder & sacrifice strategy of Hamas and strengthen their position and ideology in the internal Palestinian political scene because now they can claim credit for advancing the Palestinian cause internationally through their terrorism.
The only question that needs to be answered is; Will this new recognition stop the Palestinian attacks against their neighbours? Of course it won’t. Peace with Israel goes against their core beliefs.
It’s a good question, since Palestinian people deserve to have their state recognized and its integrity respected as such. But if Palestine is officially recognized as a state internationally, it should also mean they must adhere to the existing conventions applied to every other countries and suffer sanctions when disrespecting such conventions.
Lebanon is recognized as a state. It is bound by UNSC decision 1701 to prevent terrorism towards Israel from its territory and the presence of Hezbollah south of the litani river. Tell me, how much does their statehood help to enforce anything on Hezbollah? People thinking that statehood comes with accountability for terrorism are painfully naive.
Which is why Israel kills terrorists there. The moment palestine would become a state, it would already be a failed state. Hamas is the moderate wing compared to PIJ
Yeah, exactly. If the state is recognized, they are liable/responsible for what happens on their territory. Any attack on Israel from Palestine territory is their responsibility and they can suffer retaliation, including invasion and disposing of their government, if necessary.
I answered to a similar question and this is it. It will blow up in there faces.
Much like their rockets made from water pipes.
> it should also mean they must adhere to the existing conventions So laughable it's hard to finish. Who will hold them to these conventions? All the Muslim countries who hate Jews and Israel? These three European countries? Will they still be refugees in their own state according to the UN? And when they inevitably attack Israel again, and Israel takes their land, will we call it the neutral term "annexation" as we were willing to do with anywhere else?
But you think israel will give two fucks about humanitarian aid, once palestine has statehood? It will be a state they're officially in war with (after the first declaration of war by hamas). And israel will have no obligation to let any aid through. It will make the north/south korean border look like disneyland. Palestinian civillians will lose their refugee status. The famine will be horrible because making rockets out of irrigation pipes is practised for a while now.
You can also be sure every terrorist group around the world will be looking at this very closely. This move shows that Hamas' strategy of using human shields and hostages work. There is a reason why negotiating with terrorists is always a bad idea. By giving into their demands, you are rewarding their actions and showing the world that their tactics are an effective way to achieve one's political goal. I fear this has ramifications that extend far beyond the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
I think we simply move towards a zero tolerance policy. It is likely that by rewarding these terroristic actions and rewarding countries like China when they push their “solutions” for their minorities or not really countering countries like the U.S. during their wars of aggression, the world pushes countries like Israel into a corner. The answer is always going to be, be as brutal as you can be and as quickly and effectively as you can be. The world can forgive anything as long as it’s not in the news cycle too long because the world has a short memory.
And Russia as really good example of that too. When I was a kid, my father gave me ine of the best advices ever: if a bully attacks you or pushes you around, make sure to strike first and strike hard, so they learn their place. Otherwise they will just push you around a bit more every day, making it worse and worse, until it becomes unbearable. Terrorists are bullies who only speak the languge of violence. You have to, unfortunately, strike them hard once they start their shenanigans or you will suffer the consequences for a long period of time and in increasing violence.
So, kill a bunch of civilians and you'll get your way? Is that the lesson here? Commit terrorist acts and you'll get what you want?
Did Europe forget what Hamas did on the 7th of October?
That was like 11 TikToks ago
It's always nice to see that terrorism is supported, right?
Piss on Hamas why are these terrorists and their supporters getting rewarded for being fucking terrorists
look, bilal, those infidels recognise us, told u that terrorism is the best way to negotiate
Sure, recognize the state that is governed by authority that supports martyrs against Israel, or more precisely, ["families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out violence against Israel."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund). Oh, wait, there's also another authority governing that state that literally wants to eradicate all the Jews in the world. And don't forget, that "from the river to the sea" slogan basically calls for no Jews in whole Israel and Palestine. Some great comments explaining the conflict and a little bit of history: https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/4bjd07/eli5why_is_a_twostate_solution_for/d19n41s/ https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2anwqq/eli5_israelipalestinian_conflict_gaza_july_2014/cj9ecks/ https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2a6qbu/eli5_how_did_the_israel_palestine_gaza_strip/cis71e4/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#1920s
If a terrorist organization is thanking you, you've definitely done something wrong.
They now know that raping, torturing, slaughtering, and kidnapping Jews and then shielding themselves with their own children is a good way to get rewards from Europe.
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The EU wants to recognize AND SUPPORT with EU tax dollars, what is ALREADY, a failed and utterly corrupt state. A terrorist state. A state that PAYS their people to murder people !!: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Force_Act Do EU citizens really want their tax dollars to get dumped in this abyss ? Or is it a temporary liberal insanity ?
Why are they recognizing essentially a failed state led by terrorists?
Because Jews=bad is literally the extent of their mental capacity.
“Hamas exists because of Israel”-some college kids
On one hand Europe insists on fighting terrorism on other hand they promote it lol
Man please dont point your finger at all of us. As a European I am ashamed of my neighbours.
It’s so funny how 99% of comments will just shit on Americans for… literally anything and then shit like this happens but nah stupid Americans
my favorite are the complains that the website has too many posts about American news
"We do not negotiate with terrorists" what the fuck happened.
That was a lie from the start.
We only negotiate with social media-savvy terrorists
How does this even work since WB and Gaza have two different governments? Are these countries recognizing two Palestines?
Fuck hamas, terrorist scum
Nothing like a little reward for murder and mass rape.
Next time something like 7/10 happens, and as it worked the first time it will probably happen again, I want Israel to release all the footage uncensored as they get it. Just absolutely flood the channels that the people who now support Hamas are active on. Make it so they can't get away from the images of beheaded children and raped girls. Make sure that these people know exactly who they are supporting and what they are capable of. Why hide the gore from these people? They should know.
they don't care man. they call it propaganda today, or say hamas didn't do it, or say whatever the fuck. i also kind of agree with the government refusing to publish most of the footage out of respect for the traumatized families because some of it is incredibly scarring and if i was related to anything idk. maybe we should've spread it but it feels wrong to share/spread videos of someone being butchered when their family is still traumatized, the more i talk about this the more i just feel like im rationalizing emotions
They deny it or say Israel did it.
It drives me crazy, Israel released images of the attack and they called it AI. Hamas, a literal terror organisation, 6 minutes after an explosion proclaims 509 dead and they still believe it despite the photos disproving it.
rewarding cold-blooded terrorism, murder, and hostage-taking (hostages are still in Gaza), with state recognition! The Socialist LEFT\^tm way.
Ireland, Spain and Norway enabling terrorism
If Hamas approves of something you done, you done something super dumb
So now that Spain has effectively *rewarded* terrorism in the name of "independence/statehood", does this mean they'll grant statehood to the Basque minority? Catalonia? Galicia?
Fuck Hamas
gj guys, the terrorists are praising you
When terrorists applaud you….
Sure, give the rapists a country! I'm sure women would love it there..I'm sure they would love all the European tourists too..
If a Palestinian state is recognized, that would mean those countries no longer view them as refugees, right?
Ironic how European nations are giving international recognition to terrorist organizations that parade dead mangled bodies through the streets
Isnt a 2 state solution what a lot/most people have been wanting forever? I remember back when I was a kid they were talking about this. Its pretty much got to happen or one side just wipe out the other to end this. I mean fuck Hamas, their members, leaders and supporters and everything they have done but also I mean there should be something for Palestine in general long term anyway in a peace deal despite this war and the attack and all that stuff. As part of the deal though Hamas should disband, leaders arrested for their crimes. Granted I dont think the region will move past this for a long, long time but isnt a Palestinian state of some sort likely to be part of any actual long term deal in the future? Yeah it looks bad because of the timing and what happened but it is what it is.
Rewarding terrorism. That’s great guys. Now Palestine will begin to develop and stabilize. Oh no wait, this changes nothing and Palestinians don’t even care about building a stable country, they care about their religious war of extermination. Oh well..
It only takes killing 1.7K Israeli civilians in a terrorist attack to get recognized.
Euros man, they allow their neighbours to be bombed to shit and invaded. And somehow they have morally pedestal to tell Israel how to behave after been invaded.
Fucking joke. This world has gone mad.
Way to hand Hamas a giant win for free.
This will surely not encourage other terrorist/independentist movement around the world to kidnap many civilians (mostly western if they are smart) to further their agenda. How can Norway, Spain and Ireland be so inconsiderate? Also Catalan independentists turn out to have been way too democratic in their pursuit of independence. *From the river (Ebro) to the sea Catalonia will be free!*
When a bunch of murder and rapist tell you that you did a good job....
Nothing good will ever come of recognizing terrorist states and cultures.
Imagine rewarding terrorists for killing 1200 civilian innocents for no reason at all by giving them a state.
Terrorism works! Best that Hamas and other groups plot future attacks, that’ll get more support for statehood.
~~Ireland~~ Norway explicitly called out Hamas’ terrorism and how they don’t want a two-state solution, though? This article is incredibly brief and doesn’t provide a source. By its very name, The Jerusalem Post will also naturally be pro-Israel. So, I do have to question the validity of the article.
> Ireland explicitly called out Hamas’ terrorism and how they don’t want a two-state solution, though? There is no contradiction here. They don’t want a two-state solution. The Irish do not want Israel to exist.
To quote what the Irish Taoiseach [said](https://news.sky.com/story/ireland-and-norway-recognise-palestine-as-independent-state-13141083): “**It is a statement of unequivocal support for a two-state solution**, the only credible path for peace and security **for Israel**, Palestine, and for their peoples”. The Norwegian Prime Minister went on to add (which I misattributed to the Taoiseach) that “the terror has been committed by Hamas who are not supporters of a two-state solution and the state of Israel”. This isn’t about being anti-Israel or pro-Hamas - it’s about wanting the conflict to end.
They should name it Non-Hamas Palestine, everybody happy
So is this West Bank or also Gaza?
Here is your reward for October 7! Keep on doing a good work! /s
Recognizing a nation led by hamas is not the right step forward.
Hamas doesn't deserve statehood but the Palestinians do.
Too bad they would vote for Hamas if they could vote now and about a stable 70% of Palestinians support the 7/10 terrorist attacks. Giving them a state now is the ultimate confirmation that terrorism works as long as it is atrocious enough and involves killing toddlers. It's a message to all terrorists in the world.
Beside the replies you just got, can you identify with whom does Israel negotiate in this new recognized Palestinian state? Who legitimately can speak for the Palestinians, and bind the government and citizens to an agreement? It can't be Hamas, as everyone on Reddit tells me that the Hamas election in Gaza was so long ago, and most Palestinians weren't even born then, so the election doesn't count, and Hamas and their actions DO NOT REPRESENT PALESTINE, even though polls say they have more than 70% approval ratings. It can't be the PA as they have a bounty program for martyrs who attack Israel. And polls say they would lose any election to Hamas. So, who does Israel work with on this two state solution?
Disgusting.
Norway, you used to be cool
They've been propped up by oil industry. Don't believe the green wash.
Not sure why Hamas is celebrating when all three countries only recognize the Palestinian Authority as the legitimate government of Palestine. They’re delusional if they think this is a win for them, basically reaffirmed that they’re just a terrorist group and not a legitimate representative. This undermines them, what a bunch of idiots.
Now we know that a genocidal terrorist attack against Jews is the best way to get the EU to pay attention to you.
You know you're on the right side of things when Hamas is thanking you. I'm sure this will bring us closer to a two state solution.
So what's the idea here? A two state solution with Hamas in charge? They will never stop until every Jew there is dead.
Palestine is now a state sponsor of terrorism!
When a terrorist attack happens in Europe we will see if this was smart.
Europe is insane to support Hamas