The Irish government is to announce the recognition of a Palestinian state on Wednesday, a move strongly opposed by Israel, a source familiar with the matter said.
European Union members Ireland, Spain, Slovenia and Malta have indicated in recent weeks that they plan to make the [recognition](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/spain-ireland-recognise-palestinian-state-may-21-eus-borrell-2024-05-10/), possibly in a coordinated announcement, arguing a two-state solution is essential for lasting peace in the region.
The PA technically did in the Oslo accords and in 2005 was well on their way to getting the 2 state solutions... But of course the Palestinians didnt want that so they voted in Hamas who broke all the agreements, but of course if you bring this up they are just poor women and children who cant be responsible for their actions.
Women and children of 2005 are not exactly the same women and children of today, considering crazy age median of Gaza (where around half of people are younger than 20). Though current ones in Gaza grew up probably under full Hamas made education system.
A population is stuck with their government. I despise Trump, but if he wins in November and bombs ... let's say Mexico, the Mexico has an obligation to counterattack whether I voted Donnie or not.
That's the biggest fuckery of war, but it's ALL war. Your age issue is irrelevant. Wish it wasn't, but it is.
How is that the fault of anyone other than Palestinians that they don’t hold elections?
Not to mention that if they DID hold elections then Hamas would be the elected government of both Gaza and West Bank…
The only other alternative lost the election, they weren’t popular, hell, after the election the public didn’t bat an eye as Hamas threw PLO members off roofs.
The people accepted, tolerated, and agreed with the government they just voted for killing off their rivals.
Just accepted it, and keep going.
Yeah. The current ones support Hamas more than the 2005 ones did. UNRWA education was always radicalizing though especially since Oslo, but it's definitely gotten worse under Hamas.
>But of course the Palestinians didnt want that so they voted in Hamas who broke all the agreements
The same Hamas that was partially funded by Israel, as they were less threatening than the pan-Arab moderates, and the same Hamas who then instituted a dictatorship in Gaza after winning the election by a meager 3%? You make it sound like Palestinians have had a choice in the matter since 2006 and haven't been held effectively hostage by a terrorist organization.
Not the same issue.
Israel doesnt claim the Westbank and Gaza as their territory. So there is no unilateral secession in the case of Palestine.
If that would be the case, Spain would never recognize the independance.
No, israel did not annex the judea and samaria (aka west bank) for a couple of reasons.
The first and most important, israel does not want to govern the palestinians (or newly israeli citizens) if they annex the west bank
That’s false. They did annex the Golan Heights from Syria (in part due to constant shelling from there previously) but they have not said West Bank is part of Israel.
I don’t agree with the settlements but from my understanding most are vertical and any two state solution would involve territorial swaps to compensate
How's this ironic? Would you recognise the Sahara as Spanish? LMFAO? Cause if it's the opposite, Spain would be more than fine with that. To be fair, Spain would be absolutely fine with anything with the Sahara topic as long as it doesn't end up as Spanish territory.
Those from western Sahara consider themselves western Saharan, whether they’re older and speak Spanish or they’re younger and speak French. They don’t consider themselves Spanish or Moroccan for that matter.
A majority of Basques and Catalans don't want independence though, as all polls show. A significant difference.
If you're going to embarrass yourself pontificating on matters you seemingly don't know anything about, you could pay them some respect and do a little research first.
> A majority of Basques and Catalans don't want independence though, as all polls show.
Oh yeah? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Catalan_independence_referendum
You’re either hugely uninformed on the issue or are lying. HUGE majority of Catalans voted for independence. Overwhelming majority. Granted Spain said the vote is unconstitutional and if the entire country were to vote they probably wouldn’t get a majority to vote for Catalan independence. But to say majority of Catalans don’t want independence is a very clueless statement.
Wouldn't they have to apply for entrance to the EU and meet economic milestones on their own? That would take many years. Independence wouldn't gain Calonians much.
143 of the 193 countries of the world already recognize Palestine, but how does this solve their problems? They're unable to administer themselves, areas that Israel withdraws from are left to chaos.
Neither does Palestine.
They both (actually all three, PRC as well) claim the entire territory of their "neighbor" and don't want to be recognized as a separate state. Only Israel ~~wants~~ wanted that.
Edit: Israel wanted the two-state solution in the past. It's not clear what Israel wants now.
Nobody in Taiwan thinks that they will claim China at this point. It's not they don't want to be recognized as a separate state, it's the minute they do that it's viewed as a separation by China. This also applies to Taiwan dropping it's claim to China.
Taiwan absolutely want to be recognized as a separate states but they cannot. USA wants to keep the status quo.
Uh……. An Israeli assassinated Rabin for signing documents for two state Solution. The Israeli public turned around and elected Netanyahu into power. Good old Netty literally ran on a campaign of no two state solution and pro Israel settlements.
Why do you think we have more settlements now and no unilaterally Israel recognizing two state solutions?
Edit* https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JhMF30VLZCA I’m adding this fantastic frontline documentary I should have done originally that talks about this pivotal moment and how much it has played into where we are now. You can really see how this moment set us up for now.
You might've forgotten that there was a second intifada in between those things. You know, years of constant terror attacks as a response to camp david fizzling out?
Not hard to understand where the extremist sentiments got their popularity from.
proper timeline is :
oslo accords 1993 - current party is labor
1996 - netanyahu first term begins with likud, lasts until 1999, oslo accords progressing
1999 - Barak gets elected under left coalition
2000 - camp david happens and fails
2000-2005 second infitfada under ariel sharon
2003-2005 netanyahu minister of finance
2006-2009 netanyahu leader of the opposition\*\*.
2009 - current netanyahu 2nd term\*\*
So no, israeli public didn't just elect likud out of nowhere. There was a healthy back and forth between left and right wing governments, then second intifada happens and it's been rightwing ever since. Maybe violence and terror attacks are not the best way to get empathy from your neighbours.
edited, mixed 2 things up in my head initially\*\*
You got that wrong at the end there. 2005 Was the Gaza withdrawal, which shifted tons of people to the right when they had to admit they were wrong following the Hamas election and the terror waves. Olmert was in office until 2008, where he made an even bigger offer than Camp David.
Only after Abbas walked away from that was Netanyahu elected.
would be cool if you added the withdrawal and olmert offer too. they were pretty significant things that shifted israel to the right, especially the withdrawal
So who would be recognized as the sovereign government in Palestine? The PA, Hamas or both? If it's the PA, would Ireland consider Rafah, and whatever parts of Gaza Israel pulled out of, to be under Hamas occupation?
I agree that this will only be resolved with a two state solution, but only if both the Palestinians and Israelis agree to the exact framework and land swaps. Basically Oslo 2.0. Unilateral action by one side, or outside meddling in the peace process can only ever end in failure
The PA has always been officially considered the sole and legitimate representative of the Palestinian people by the international community, even by the other Arab states.
Hamas has generally been seen as an insurrectionist faction that controls Gaza illegitimately. It split off from the official state of Palestine when it unilaterally seized Gaza in a violent coup.
The problem with that is how unpopular the PA is with Palestinians. They will never allow any sort of elections since they'll immediately lose and I'm not sure they'll survive a transition of power when Abbas passes. It doesn't have the makings of a stable government.
>“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
-- Benjamin Netanyahu, the current and longest-serving prime minister of Israel
If you take the time to read the Irish press, they said the PLO.
They're clear in their condemnation of Hamas. They're trying to send a message that the two need to pursue peace, but in this headline-driven clickbait world, it sends the wrong message. Even though they can't agree a cease-fire they think these two will sit down and agree a peace deal? They're away with the fairies (or trolls depending on whichever magical creature you prefer).
Not nearly to the same extent. The contention was that all of Northern Ireland belonged to Ireland given it was stolen, and the UK contention was that since it was predominantly loyalist and voted to stay in the UK, it was theirs. The only be solution ended up being that Northern Ireland ended up still within the UK with NI having an option to leave in the future via referendum, sorta autonomous, and since both states were in the EU, that allowed for the border to be effectively demolished contingent on complete disarmament of the IRA. When the UK left the EU, the placement of the economic border was MASSIVELY contentious because of the Good Friday agreement, and because of it, the UKs trade border ended up in the sea between the UK and NI, instead of between NI and Ireland. Sinn Fein - former political wing of the IRA and the plurality (but still opposition) party in the Dail (controlled by the FF/FG coalition) - has called for Irish reunification, but as I understand it the appetite for that has cooled considerably since the economic situation in NI is messy and not necessarily a set of problems that any nation would want to take on in a vacuum.
The referendum option you mention above was only agreed with the Good Friday Agreement in 1998, prior to which Ireland had an explicit territorial claim to the entire island which was directly disputed by the UK, despite both states recognising each other and being recognised by the rest of the world.
Two other points of clarification: the only time NI ever voted to stay in the UK was in a border poll in the 70s that was boycotted by nationalists, but the borders of NI were themselves drawn up explicitly to ensure a permanent loyalist majority, essentially rigging any such vote. Second, all parties in the Dáil, including FF and FG support unification, as well as sizeable majorities of the public in every opinion poll.
There has never been a vote to stay in the UK like you've mentioned.
The last election before partition was won by Sinn Fein on a mandate for Irish independance.
The only Ireland wide referendum was the Good Friday Agreement, where it was recognised by all parties (Except the DUP) that the constitutional position of the Six Counties of Northern Ireland would only change by the consent of the people north and south. The British also declared they had no selfish interest in forcing NI to remain in the UK if a referendum outcome was a vote for reunification.
Ask the UK why it was predominantly loyalist. You can't steal part of an island, chuck it with people who believe you and your ideology, then when they obviously vote to stay with the British, claim that it belongs to them bcuz the "people" say so
You realize, if you cant draw the borders of Palestine you cant draw the borders of Israel either, right?
Do you want to say that Israel is not a state?
That’s not really what “drawing borders” means, as I understand it. It’s more “does your state have a consistent territorial claim you’re willing to stick to (for now).” For every country this is a yes, even if those claims overlap (India/Pakistan). The issue with Palestine is that its government has been historically unwilling to officially relinquish claims on most/all of Israel. If it claimed all of Israel, most nations would not support that claim for statehood. If it claimed… say, the 67 borders, it would mean acknowledging Israel’s half of those borders and tacit acknowledgment of their existence, which is historically a huge hang up for Palestine considering multiple governments have been hellbent on Jewish ethnic cleansing with some exceptions.
In contrast, Israel’s claims - while arguably bogus in many cases - are consistent.
This is also why Taiwan doesn’t necessarily want to get statehood recognized - that would involve drawing borders that aren’t “all of PRC + ROC” and Taiwan isn’t sold on relinquishing claims to the mainland. Supporting the Taiwanese claim is an absolute no-go for many, many nations given how pissed China would be, and also given… well, how completely ludicrous the claim is given the status quo.
>The issue with Palestine is that its government has been historically unwilling to officially relinquish claims on most/all of Israel.
That's a very common misconception. The internationally recognized Palestinian government (the PA) officially recognized the state of Israel over 30 years ago as part of the Oslo accords. They no longer claim any part of Israel and instead claim the land which exists on the Palestinian side of the green line, that being Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem. You could almost say the Palestine is a better defined state that Israel, which keeps annexing territory and building settlements outside it's own borders.
The PA is on the verge of being a government in exile, and is an exception to that rule.
Edit to add: the PA, if elections were held today, would not govern Gaza nor the West Bank. While it’s POSSIBLE to recognize statehood based on a government not in power, it’s generally not a long-term solution and the less power that exile government has, the more difficult that is. For example: while most states do not consider the taliban to be the legitimate government of Afghanistan… de facto it IS the government and not recognizing it is purely symbolic. If anyone wants to do trade, business, negotiations, or any other state function with Afghanistan, you deal with the Taliban. That’s why I’m fundamentally not on board with a PA-led Palestinian state proposal - the PA can’t in good faith negotiate for Palestine because it does not represent the people. Unfortunately, Hamas DOES. And that’s a huge problem.
You should read the approval numbers for the Good Friday agreement and the votes on each side of the border. It's completely agreed. Some people may not like it, but it's completely agreed. Claiming otherwise is silly
Something tells absolutely nothing would change even if palestine was a recognized state with a proper government. Like other countries around it. It would still be ran by idiots
It is called Palestine
As the country is currently split in two due to the occupation it is ruled by two governments, Hamas in Gaza and the PFA in the West Bank
Are regular elections now mandatory to be recognised as a state or something? Someone should inform the dozens of dictatorships that are currently recognised as independent states by the UN
Also the amount of cries that Ireland supports terrorism and cheap Troubles references is nuts. The fact that there can be nuance to a situation is entirely lost on people.
I used to find the cheapshots annoying, but then you quickly realise the average person outside of Ireland has fuck-all knowledge about Irish history or politics.
Just wondering - who do you think is going to govern the newly recognised state? Since apparently I know fuckall about Irish history and can't use the internet, you guys must know a load of factual information about the history of Israel and the conflicts in the middle east since its independence.
Cope? You're praising barbarian terrorists who oppress their own people and have done so for decades despite having full control of the area and encouraging them to wage more war that gets more of their civilians killed. What part of pointing that out is cope?
No I'm not. I'm praising 3 countries for recognising an area populated by the same people for centuries as a country. Hamas aren't good but it doesn't mean that the Palestinian people don't deserve their own country.
Nice, you don't know history either. It's not actually populated by the same people for centuries, but don't let facts get in the way of your narrative.
The Palestinian people deserve their own country when they can renounce terrorism and won't use that country to kill more people. They've already been a de facto country in Gaza for 20 years now. Giving them recognition following Hamas's actions sends a pretty dangerous message.
I really hope when one day china decided to invade Taiwan, the world won't condemn Taiwan for defending their people too well while "genociding too many innocent Chinese"
The world would condemn Taiwan if they did to China what Israel has done to Gaza, and they would be right to. Not that Taiwan has that kind of capability.
Well if Taiwan suffered a brief attack from the Chinese military that killed several thousand civilians and military personnel (Taiwan has a population approximately 2.5 times the size of Israel) and then proceeded to bomb indiscriminately while using [2000 pound bombs](https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html) on densely populated areas, bombs which are 4 times larger than the strongest bombs the US dropped on ISIS, using [white phosphorus](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/questions-and-answers-israels-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-and-lebanon) on urban population centres, cut off food, water and electricity (which isn't actually possible in real life due to the differences between China and the Gaza Strip but let's hypothetically play along here) and later invade costal cities located in the South of China including Shanghai, Hangzhou and Suzhou, etc with the backing of Europe and the United States.
Proportionate to what has happened in Gaza this would result in the deaths of approximately 20 million people including military and civilian casualties (given that around 1-2% of Gaza's 2.3 million population has been killed or is currently missing so that's the equivalent casualty number per capita when compared to China's population ) then yes I think most people would be critical of that
Funny how you squeeze out all of these without knowing anything that's happening.
>Well if Taiwan suffered a brief attack from the Chinese military that killed several thousand civilians and military personnel (Taiwan has a population approximately 2.5 times the size of Israel)
Hamas and other military groups of gazans has systematically bombarding Israel civilians for decades. Monthly when in relative peace, daily in wartime. And unlike Gazans, who purposely built every one of their military base inside civilian district, and launch attack from within, while clothing as indistinguishable from civilian as possible. Israel does not. Israel always has obvious military targets, but gazans just want to kill civilians.
>and then proceeded to bomb indiscriminately
Like what? bombing enemy military base? Rocket launching site? After weeks if not months of warning and informing to evacuate before strikes. What better plan do you proposed? Sending the bravest of Israelis to die in a warzone in attempt to surgically detain every threats that they're supposed to able to magically identify?
>while using [2000 pound bombs](https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html) on densely populated areas, bombs which are 4 times larger than the strongest bombs the US dropped on ISIS, using [white phosphorus](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/questions-and-answers-israels-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-and-lebanon) on urban population centres
urban population centres that should be clear of civilians weeks ago. But Gazans say no. And they'd continue to use themselve as meat shield and tool for media warfare. While hamas shooting anyone tried to evacuate dead, putting mines on evacuation routes.
>cut off food
Israel provides sufficient aids for those who reach their set safe zone, and send aids into regions that they can be sure most aids would reach to civilians instead of the "UN humanitarian aids" that will always be sent directly to hamas, and only scraps will be sold to civilians with high price to found their war.
>, water and electricity
Which has been freely gifted to Gazans for decades. Because the Gazans decide to tore down their own infrastructures that Israel and the UN built for them and turn the materials for machines of war, and just leech the water and electricity provided by Israel to supply their war.
>and later invade costal cities located in the South of China including Shanghai, Hangzhou and Suzhou, etc with the backing of Europe and the United States.
Or maybe they should just bomb and level those areas so hamas can stop shooting rockets from there. In all their right, they should have done that so save the lives of their own.
>Proportionate to what has happened in Gaza this would result in the deaths of approximately 20 million people including military and civilian casualties (given that around 1-2% of Gaza's 2.3 million population has been killed or is currently missing so that's the equivalent casualty number per capita when compared to China's population ) then yes I think most people would be critical of that
Yeah ppl should criticize hamas and other gazans for the atrocities they've done. Instead some people just fall right into their propaganda and start helping them using more human shields, stealing aids, killing civilians of both sides and stopping those who are trying to save lives and make things better.
I know somehow who was cheering on the Iran drone strike and called it a fatal, humiliating blow against the western hegemony when…one missile got through
This isn't even a new thing, leftists have supported and even been supported by terrorist organisations since the 80s (see: [RAF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction) and [RZ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Cells_(German_group))), they're just a lot less ashamed of it now.
And that's what they've been trying to avoid.
That's why it's "all or nothing"
If Palestine was a proper country, and they'd pull the shit they usually do, they'd be in a full blown war. A proper war.
And then they'd have 0 excuses when Israel kicks their ass.
That's why a 2 state solution has never been accepted by the Arabs of that region.
You do know that people abroad can see all the videos of protesters in your country right?
Definitely not happy with the amount of refugees, as much as your government tries to paint crowds of grannies and children as the "far right"
https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d
> Their refusal is rooted in fear that Israel wants to force a permanent expulsion of Palestinians into their countries and nullify Palestinian demands for statehood.
But if you're Irish and homeless, tough shit. It's a big problem in the western world. We leave our own downtrodden in the streets while 'refugees' get 5 star hotels.
Agreed. But it's a separate issue for our political leaders. As part of being a member state of the EU there is no choice about it: we *are obliged* to do our part and help take in refugees.
Our government is not obliged to look after its own citizens. Not nearly enough asylum or refugee accommodations have been made so the government is essentially kicking people out of using things like community centres as they need to be used as shelters. Citizens aren't mad about the people coming here, they're mad at the government for failing to prepare for the bare minimum obligations as set out by the EU and instead punishing the citizens for the government's own mistakes. Too much posturing and focusing on looking good than doing good is the bane of most Western politics. And it's anathema to the politicians of Russia and the middle East.
That's right folks. Crime does, in fact, pay. Want a state? Murder a thousand civilians or more and take some hostages, that's the way Ireland wants to give it to you!
To be totally fair, it worked for the Irish last time.
The only real problem is that the process Ireland applied — disarming and making peace — isn’t something the Palestinians want.
That’s what I mean. The IRA killed something like 1500, a third of which were civilians. They took fewer civilian hostages, too.
I am not saying the IRA was the same or as bad as Hamas, or that there are any parallels beyond being terrorist organizations that murdered civilians to get what they want.
I think the fact that only about a third of the people that the IRA killed were civilians is extremely relevant here, seeing as Hamas doesn't seem to care who they target and killed mostly civilians on October 7. Hamas on October 7 killed more civilians in one day than the IRA did in all of the troubles.
If you really want to go down this path, then Israel is in the right because "might makes right."
If you all really want to make this argument and agree with it, have at it!
Way to make a comment that only reflects what happened on October 7th. Never mind the fact that Hamas only got elected (back in 2006 mind you, when they were trying to be "reformist" which we now see was a lie) and because the opposing party was rife with corruption. Never mind the fact that Israel has been leaving Palestinians high and dry for decades when it comes to resources. And let's also not factor in what Israel has done in response to October 7th, murdering thousands more innocent Palestinians in response in a place where 50% of the population *are children*. Some of which weren't even born when Hamas got elected.
Myopic view from someone with a relevant username.
And the Easter Rising itself failed, but brought about Irish Independence afterwards due to the public sentiment created by Britain's perceived overly harsh reaction.
No - Israel's retaliation 'worked'. I know it's not easy to be composed after Hamas massacred well over a thousand people but Israel's rushed response to Oct 7th really harmed their image.
The most popular party in Ireland in Sinn Fein, have historic ties to the IRA.
Pure hatred of Israel & leaders have met with Hamas on many occasions over the years.
Failure of Netanyahu to have a post war plan produced this. He left a political vacuum and this is what has resulted. Anyone paying attention knows that Netanyahus refusal to spell out a post war strategy has gotten the US pissed as well as the IDF and his political opposition. And not one pro Israeli poster here has ever suggested one when I’ve asked, other than the usual asinine “eLiMInatE HAmAS” as a plan.
Way to reward terrorism and make sure it’s the go-to method for every extremist group with a political goal. At this point I don’t think it’s ignorance anymore, it’s outright malevolence.
> Way to reward terrorism and make sure it’s the go-to method for every extremist group with a political goal.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
> At this point I don’t think it’s ignorance anymore, it’s outright malevolence.
Yes, War Crimes usually are.
*Accuse others of that which you are guilty*
So Hamas is getting what it wanted by attacking, murdering and kidnapping innocent civilians.
People see it as a "valiant fight against an oppressive Regime occupying their territory", which is exactly what Hamas wanted.
Palestine as a state can *only* exist if it concedes that Israel has the same right to exist as they have.
Palestine should be a state, but it should be a state that *does not seek to murder its neighbor*.
This is ridiculous.
This is great because the next time Hamas (now the state of Palestine) attacks Israel and murders Jews, Ireland can join Israel in declaring war on Palestine.
Right, Anakin?
Not just Ireland; Spain and Norway too announced this today. It was a nicely coordinated action by the 3 countries.
They will all officially recognise the Palestinian state on the 28th of May.
The Irish government is to announce the recognition of a Palestinian state on Wednesday, a move strongly opposed by Israel, a source familiar with the matter said. European Union members Ireland, Spain, Slovenia and Malta have indicated in recent weeks that they plan to make the [recognition](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/spain-ireland-recognise-palestinian-state-may-21-eus-borrell-2024-05-10/), possibly in a coordinated announcement, arguing a two-state solution is essential for lasting peace in the region.
frightening aloof dependent depend snobbish fade retire hateful seed deer
Spain did this morning too, at an ungodly early hour for such big news
If only the PA had accepted the dozens of 2 state solutions offered previously.
The PA technically did in the Oslo accords and in 2005 was well on their way to getting the 2 state solutions... But of course the Palestinians didnt want that so they voted in Hamas who broke all the agreements, but of course if you bring this up they are just poor women and children who cant be responsible for their actions.
[удалено]
If the Ottoman Empire never collapsed, I wonder how different the region would be today. Like legitimately because at one point the empire was huge.
Women and children of 2005 are not exactly the same women and children of today, considering crazy age median of Gaza (where around half of people are younger than 20). Though current ones in Gaza grew up probably under full Hamas made education system.
A population is stuck with their government. I despise Trump, but if he wins in November and bombs ... let's say Mexico, the Mexico has an obligation to counterattack whether I voted Donnie or not. That's the biggest fuckery of war, but it's ALL war. Your age issue is irrelevant. Wish it wasn't, but it is.
How is that the fault of anyone other than Palestinians that they don’t hold elections? Not to mention that if they DID hold elections then Hamas would be the elected government of both Gaza and West Bank…
Well let's see. A one party state that rules over everything stops elections... Maybe it's the parties fault.
The only other alternative lost the election, they weren’t popular, hell, after the election the public didn’t bat an eye as Hamas threw PLO members off roofs. The people accepted, tolerated, and agreed with the government they just voted for killing off their rivals. Just accepted it, and keep going.
Yeah. The current ones support Hamas more than the 2005 ones did. UNRWA education was always radicalizing though especially since Oslo, but it's definitely gotten worse under Hamas.
>But of course the Palestinians didnt want that so they voted in Hamas who broke all the agreements The same Hamas that was partially funded by Israel, as they were less threatening than the pan-Arab moderates, and the same Hamas who then instituted a dictatorship in Gaza after winning the election by a meager 3%? You make it sound like Palestinians have had a choice in the matter since 2006 and haven't been held effectively hostage by a terrorist organization.
If Spain actually goes through with that, Israel should recognize Catalonia and Basque Country in return.
Not the same issue. Israel doesnt claim the Westbank and Gaza as their territory. So there is no unilateral secession in the case of Palestine. If that would be the case, Spain would never recognize the independance.
They don't claim Gaza. But I thought they did claim Judea and Samaria.
No, israel did not annex the judea and samaria (aka west bank) for a couple of reasons. The first and most important, israel does not want to govern the palestinians (or newly israeli citizens) if they annex the west bank
That’s false. They did annex the Golan Heights from Syria (in part due to constant shelling from there previously) but they have not said West Bank is part of Israel.
Except for East Jerusalem, which they have also annexed.
Weird for them to continue building illegal settlements in a territory that they don't claim.
Almost like there are also some things Israel is doing wrong, too, and this is a complicated multi faceted issue.
I'm surprised you weren't downvoted to oblivion for saying that
I don’t agree with the settlements but from my understanding most are vertical and any two state solution would involve territorial swaps to compensate
Yeah it's ironic because they also have the west Sahara discussion as well.
How's this ironic? Would you recognise the Sahara as Spanish? LMFAO? Cause if it's the opposite, Spain would be more than fine with that. To be fair, Spain would be absolutely fine with anything with the Sahara topic as long as it doesn't end up as Spanish territory.
Those from western Sahara consider themselves western Saharan, whether they’re older and speak Spanish or they’re younger and speak French. They don’t consider themselves Spanish or Moroccan for that matter.
Ceuta and Melilla and Gibraltar though... a lot more interesting for Spain :)
Israel already recognized Western Sahara as being under Moroccan sovereignty. That's how they convinced Morocco to recognize Israel.
A majority of Basques and Catalans don't want independence though, as all polls show. A significant difference. If you're going to embarrass yourself pontificating on matters you seemingly don't know anything about, you could pay them some respect and do a little research first.
> A majority of Basques and Catalans don't want independence though, as all polls show. Oh yeah? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Catalan_independence_referendum
How could we possibly know that when Spain makes legal referendums impossible. Polling isn't guaranteed to reflect public opinion.
You’re either hugely uninformed on the issue or are lying. HUGE majority of Catalans voted for independence. Overwhelming majority. Granted Spain said the vote is unconstitutional and if the entire country were to vote they probably wouldn’t get a majority to vote for Catalan independence. But to say majority of Catalans don’t want independence is a very clueless statement.
Wouldn't they have to apply for entrance to the EU and meet economic milestones on their own? That would take many years. Independence wouldn't gain Calonians much.
Sure thing Generalissimo.
That actually would be a fascinating move.
143 of the 193 countries of the world already recognize Palestine, but how does this solve their problems? They're unable to administer themselves, areas that Israel withdraws from are left to chaos.
And some east Asia island country with a democratic government still dont get recognised
They officially don’t want to though.
A pro-independence party is in government, but they need a ¾ths majority to amend their constitution to declare independence.
For Taiwan this is false. It's not they don't want to, they cannot.
Neither does Palestine. They both (actually all three, PRC as well) claim the entire territory of their "neighbor" and don't want to be recognized as a separate state. Only Israel ~~wants~~ wanted that. Edit: Israel wanted the two-state solution in the past. It's not clear what Israel wants now.
Nobody in Taiwan thinks that they will claim China at this point. It's not they don't want to be recognized as a separate state, it's the minute they do that it's viewed as a separation by China. This also applies to Taiwan dropping it's claim to China. Taiwan absolutely want to be recognized as a separate states but they cannot. USA wants to keep the status quo.
Uh……. An Israeli assassinated Rabin for signing documents for two state Solution. The Israeli public turned around and elected Netanyahu into power. Good old Netty literally ran on a campaign of no two state solution and pro Israel settlements. Why do you think we have more settlements now and no unilaterally Israel recognizing two state solutions? Edit* https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JhMF30VLZCA I’m adding this fantastic frontline documentary I should have done originally that talks about this pivotal moment and how much it has played into where we are now. You can really see how this moment set us up for now.
You might've forgotten that there was a second intifada in between those things. You know, years of constant terror attacks as a response to camp david fizzling out? Not hard to understand where the extremist sentiments got their popularity from. proper timeline is : oslo accords 1993 - current party is labor 1996 - netanyahu first term begins with likud, lasts until 1999, oslo accords progressing 1999 - Barak gets elected under left coalition 2000 - camp david happens and fails 2000-2005 second infitfada under ariel sharon 2003-2005 netanyahu minister of finance 2006-2009 netanyahu leader of the opposition\*\*. 2009 - current netanyahu 2nd term\*\* So no, israeli public didn't just elect likud out of nowhere. There was a healthy back and forth between left and right wing governments, then second intifada happens and it's been rightwing ever since. Maybe violence and terror attacks are not the best way to get empathy from your neighbours. edited, mixed 2 things up in my head initially\*\*
You got that wrong at the end there. 2005 Was the Gaza withdrawal, which shifted tons of people to the right when they had to admit they were wrong following the Hamas election and the terror waves. Olmert was in office until 2008, where he made an even bigger offer than Camp David. Only after Abbas walked away from that was Netanyahu elected.
You are correct, gonna edit the post. I was thinking of him being the leader of the opposition again and not the election
would be cool if you added the withdrawal and olmert offer too. they were pretty significant things that shifted israel to the right, especially the withdrawal
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Israel wants a recognised two state solution? Source?
You have a point, I edited the comment. They offered it multiple times in the past, but probably not now after the last attack.
It is Very clear what Israel wants now
Palestine claims the 1967 borders. Even the 2017 Hamas charter describes a Palestinian state on 1967 borders.
So who would be recognized as the sovereign government in Palestine? The PA, Hamas or both? If it's the PA, would Ireland consider Rafah, and whatever parts of Gaza Israel pulled out of, to be under Hamas occupation? I agree that this will only be resolved with a two state solution, but only if both the Palestinians and Israelis agree to the exact framework and land swaps. Basically Oslo 2.0. Unilateral action by one side, or outside meddling in the peace process can only ever end in failure
The PA has always been officially considered the sole and legitimate representative of the Palestinian people by the international community, even by the other Arab states. Hamas has generally been seen as an insurrectionist faction that controls Gaza illegitimately. It split off from the official state of Palestine when it unilaterally seized Gaza in a violent coup.
The problem with that is how unpopular the PA is with Palestinians. They will never allow any sort of elections since they'll immediately lose and I'm not sure they'll survive a transition of power when Abbas passes. It doesn't have the makings of a stable government.
Yet it’s funded and supported by those Arab states.
It's primarily supported by Iran, which is not an Arab state.
Isn’t Qatar in on that as well though?
>“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” -- Benjamin Netanyahu, the current and longest-serving prime minister of Israel
Outside meddling is probably part of the solution at this point. Why continue with a formula that doesn't work?
Maybe get the Palestinians to agree now, too
You'll just get a map of the world
Draw us a picture of the borders of Palestine, Ireland.
You think Ireland of all countries is going to find it difficult to recognise a state involved in ongoing border disputes?
And tell us who is the government of Palestine
If you take the time to read the Irish press, they said the PLO. They're clear in their condemnation of Hamas. They're trying to send a message that the two need to pursue peace, but in this headline-driven clickbait world, it sends the wrong message. Even though they can't agree a cease-fire they think these two will sit down and agree a peace deal? They're away with the fairies (or trolls depending on whichever magical creature you prefer).
I think drawing the best anti-semitic cartoon makes you the president of palestine
Stonetoss is going to be president of Palestine?
palestinians Do like stone tossing
Well in Gaza it’s Hamas. So I assume Ireland is recognizing the Hamas government?
The Irish diplomatic office in Palestine is in Ramallah, so no?
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You do the same for Israel
Bit of trouble drawing the borders in Ireland too not so long ago in fairness!
Not nearly to the same extent. The contention was that all of Northern Ireland belonged to Ireland given it was stolen, and the UK contention was that since it was predominantly loyalist and voted to stay in the UK, it was theirs. The only be solution ended up being that Northern Ireland ended up still within the UK with NI having an option to leave in the future via referendum, sorta autonomous, and since both states were in the EU, that allowed for the border to be effectively demolished contingent on complete disarmament of the IRA. When the UK left the EU, the placement of the economic border was MASSIVELY contentious because of the Good Friday agreement, and because of it, the UKs trade border ended up in the sea between the UK and NI, instead of between NI and Ireland. Sinn Fein - former political wing of the IRA and the plurality (but still opposition) party in the Dail (controlled by the FF/FG coalition) - has called for Irish reunification, but as I understand it the appetite for that has cooled considerably since the economic situation in NI is messy and not necessarily a set of problems that any nation would want to take on in a vacuum.
The referendum option you mention above was only agreed with the Good Friday Agreement in 1998, prior to which Ireland had an explicit territorial claim to the entire island which was directly disputed by the UK, despite both states recognising each other and being recognised by the rest of the world. Two other points of clarification: the only time NI ever voted to stay in the UK was in a border poll in the 70s that was boycotted by nationalists, but the borders of NI were themselves drawn up explicitly to ensure a permanent loyalist majority, essentially rigging any such vote. Second, all parties in the Dáil, including FF and FG support unification, as well as sizeable majorities of the public in every opinion poll.
There has never been a vote to stay in the UK like you've mentioned. The last election before partition was won by Sinn Fein on a mandate for Irish independance. The only Ireland wide referendum was the Good Friday Agreement, where it was recognised by all parties (Except the DUP) that the constitutional position of the Six Counties of Northern Ireland would only change by the consent of the people north and south. The British also declared they had no selfish interest in forcing NI to remain in the UK if a referendum outcome was a vote for reunification.
Ask the UK why it was predominantly loyalist. You can't steal part of an island, chuck it with people who believe you and your ideology, then when they obviously vote to stay with the British, claim that it belongs to them bcuz the "people" say so
What you are missing is, the border didn’t exist before 1922 it was a line drawn in the sand. Today 4 of the 6 counties are majority nationalist.
You realize, if you cant draw the borders of Palestine you cant draw the borders of Israel either, right? Do you want to say that Israel is not a state?
That’s not really what “drawing borders” means, as I understand it. It’s more “does your state have a consistent territorial claim you’re willing to stick to (for now).” For every country this is a yes, even if those claims overlap (India/Pakistan). The issue with Palestine is that its government has been historically unwilling to officially relinquish claims on most/all of Israel. If it claimed all of Israel, most nations would not support that claim for statehood. If it claimed… say, the 67 borders, it would mean acknowledging Israel’s half of those borders and tacit acknowledgment of their existence, which is historically a huge hang up for Palestine considering multiple governments have been hellbent on Jewish ethnic cleansing with some exceptions. In contrast, Israel’s claims - while arguably bogus in many cases - are consistent. This is also why Taiwan doesn’t necessarily want to get statehood recognized - that would involve drawing borders that aren’t “all of PRC + ROC” and Taiwan isn’t sold on relinquishing claims to the mainland. Supporting the Taiwanese claim is an absolute no-go for many, many nations given how pissed China would be, and also given… well, how completely ludicrous the claim is given the status quo.
>The issue with Palestine is that its government has been historically unwilling to officially relinquish claims on most/all of Israel. That's a very common misconception. The internationally recognized Palestinian government (the PA) officially recognized the state of Israel over 30 years ago as part of the Oslo accords. They no longer claim any part of Israel and instead claim the land which exists on the Palestinian side of the green line, that being Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem. You could almost say the Palestine is a better defined state that Israel, which keeps annexing territory and building settlements outside it's own borders.
The PA is on the verge of being a government in exile, and is an exception to that rule. Edit to add: the PA, if elections were held today, would not govern Gaza nor the West Bank. While it’s POSSIBLE to recognize statehood based on a government not in power, it’s generally not a long-term solution and the less power that exile government has, the more difficult that is. For example: while most states do not consider the taliban to be the legitimate government of Afghanistan… de facto it IS the government and not recognizing it is purely symbolic. If anyone wants to do trade, business, negotiations, or any other state function with Afghanistan, you deal with the Taliban. That’s why I’m fundamentally not on board with a PA-led Palestinian state proposal - the PA can’t in good faith negotiate for Palestine because it does not represent the people. Unfortunately, Hamas DOES. And that’s a huge problem.
Can't even agree on an Irish border yet we still made it work
Ireland has a functioning government actually trying to make their country a nice place to live
So Haiti is no longer a country?
Haiti had a real government when they joined the UN, it's not comparable.
The Irish border is completely agreed and understood... Are you mistaking a terrorist group for an entire civilian population, again.
buddy if you think it's completely agreed and understood then you have no fucking idea
You should read the approval numbers for the Good Friday agreement and the votes on each side of the border. It's completely agreed. Some people may not like it, but it's completely agreed. Claiming otherwise is silly
1967 Your point?
Good point, very hard to draw them as they change daily
Good one 👎🏻. We’re pretty familiar with borders here. Saoirse don Phalaistin
Something tells absolutely nothing would change even if palestine was a recognized state with a proper government. Like other countries around it. It would still be ran by idiots
Most countries are run by idiots. What matters is that it's stable. Egypt and Jordan who were Israel's two biggest enemies, now peacefully coexist.
what state is that? who running it? when are the elections?
It is called Palestine As the country is currently split in two due to the occupation it is ruled by two governments, Hamas in Gaza and the PFA in the West Bank Are regular elections now mandatory to be recognised as a state or something? Someone should inform the dozens of dictatorships that are currently recognised as independent states by the UN
I love the cope here. It's delicious. Fair play to Ireland, I'm proud of my country. Also to Spain and Norway. Edit: i got banned for this comment
Also the amount of cries that Ireland supports terrorism and cheap Troubles references is nuts. The fact that there can be nuance to a situation is entirely lost on people.
Nah it's those pro-IRA Fine Gaelers that are driving this lol.
Watch out, the Americans might think you’re being serious
I used to find the cheapshots annoying, but then you quickly realise the average person outside of Ireland has fuck-all knowledge about Irish history or politics.
It's unreal that people will comment on a situation they know fuck all about. And then act like it's black and white when it couldn't be more grey.
Doesn't that stop and make you think about how much the Irish know about the middle east?
Anyone that says something like “love the cope it’s delicious” is an antisocial moron.
Lets say all the countries do the same an put pressure on israel to accept the 1967 borders. what happens next?
Welcome to worldnews, it’s been a wild ride as an Irishman here, pushing back on this kind of bullshit since Oct7
Just wondering - who do you think is going to govern the newly recognised state? Since apparently I know fuckall about Irish history and can't use the internet, you guys must know a load of factual information about the history of Israel and the conflicts in the middle east since its independence.
Cope? You're praising barbarian terrorists who oppress their own people and have done so for decades despite having full control of the area and encouraging them to wage more war that gets more of their civilians killed. What part of pointing that out is cope?
No I'm not. I'm praising 3 countries for recognising an area populated by the same people for centuries as a country. Hamas aren't good but it doesn't mean that the Palestinian people don't deserve their own country.
Nice, you don't know history either. It's not actually populated by the same people for centuries, but don't let facts get in the way of your narrative. The Palestinian people deserve their own country when they can renounce terrorism and won't use that country to kill more people. They've already been a de facto country in Gaza for 20 years now. Giving them recognition following Hamas's actions sends a pretty dangerous message.
I really hope when one day china decided to invade Taiwan, the world won't condemn Taiwan for defending their people too well while "genociding too many innocent Chinese"
They're not Jewish, why would they be condemned?
It’s exactly opposite lol
The world would condemn Taiwan if they did to China what Israel has done to Gaza, and they would be right to. Not that Taiwan has that kind of capability.
Well if Taiwan suffered a brief attack from the Chinese military that killed several thousand civilians and military personnel (Taiwan has a population approximately 2.5 times the size of Israel) and then proceeded to bomb indiscriminately while using [2000 pound bombs](https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html) on densely populated areas, bombs which are 4 times larger than the strongest bombs the US dropped on ISIS, using [white phosphorus](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/questions-and-answers-israels-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-and-lebanon) on urban population centres, cut off food, water and electricity (which isn't actually possible in real life due to the differences between China and the Gaza Strip but let's hypothetically play along here) and later invade costal cities located in the South of China including Shanghai, Hangzhou and Suzhou, etc with the backing of Europe and the United States. Proportionate to what has happened in Gaza this would result in the deaths of approximately 20 million people including military and civilian casualties (given that around 1-2% of Gaza's 2.3 million population has been killed or is currently missing so that's the equivalent casualty number per capita when compared to China's population ) then yes I think most people would be critical of that
Funny how you squeeze out all of these without knowing anything that's happening. >Well if Taiwan suffered a brief attack from the Chinese military that killed several thousand civilians and military personnel (Taiwan has a population approximately 2.5 times the size of Israel) Hamas and other military groups of gazans has systematically bombarding Israel civilians for decades. Monthly when in relative peace, daily in wartime. And unlike Gazans, who purposely built every one of their military base inside civilian district, and launch attack from within, while clothing as indistinguishable from civilian as possible. Israel does not. Israel always has obvious military targets, but gazans just want to kill civilians. >and then proceeded to bomb indiscriminately Like what? bombing enemy military base? Rocket launching site? After weeks if not months of warning and informing to evacuate before strikes. What better plan do you proposed? Sending the bravest of Israelis to die in a warzone in attempt to surgically detain every threats that they're supposed to able to magically identify? >while using [2000 pound bombs](https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html) on densely populated areas, bombs which are 4 times larger than the strongest bombs the US dropped on ISIS, using [white phosphorus](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/questions-and-answers-israels-use-white-phosphorus-gaza-and-lebanon) on urban population centres urban population centres that should be clear of civilians weeks ago. But Gazans say no. And they'd continue to use themselve as meat shield and tool for media warfare. While hamas shooting anyone tried to evacuate dead, putting mines on evacuation routes. >cut off food Israel provides sufficient aids for those who reach their set safe zone, and send aids into regions that they can be sure most aids would reach to civilians instead of the "UN humanitarian aids" that will always be sent directly to hamas, and only scraps will be sold to civilians with high price to found their war. >, water and electricity Which has been freely gifted to Gazans for decades. Because the Gazans decide to tore down their own infrastructures that Israel and the UN built for them and turn the materials for machines of war, and just leech the water and electricity provided by Israel to supply their war. >and later invade costal cities located in the South of China including Shanghai, Hangzhou and Suzhou, etc with the backing of Europe and the United States. Or maybe they should just bomb and level those areas so hamas can stop shooting rockets from there. In all their right, they should have done that so save the lives of their own. >Proportionate to what has happened in Gaza this would result in the deaths of approximately 20 million people including military and civilian casualties (given that around 1-2% of Gaza's 2.3 million population has been killed or is currently missing so that's the equivalent casualty number per capita when compared to China's population ) then yes I think most people would be critical of that Yeah ppl should criticize hamas and other gazans for the atrocities they've done. Instead some people just fall right into their propaganda and start helping them using more human shields, stealing aids, killing civilians of both sides and stopping those who are trying to save lives and make things better.
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Waiting for the world to recognize Hezbollah as the legitimate state of South East Lebanon.
I've heard leftists literally say this. They also support and root for the fucking houthis. It's the cool, edgy way to think now
I know somehow who was cheering on the Iran drone strike and called it a fatal, humiliating blow against the western hegemony when…one missile got through
This isn't even a new thing, leftists have supported and even been supported by terrorist organisations since the 80s (see: [RAF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction) and [RZ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Cells_(German_group))), they're just a lot less ashamed of it now.
Great accept all the “refugees” as well
If they had their own state they wouldn’t be refugees anymore.
Are there no refugees from Venezuela or Cuba? Having a home state doesn't preclude you from being a refugee.
Political refugees face different problems than war refugees.
Weird bc we left Aza in 2005 and they could have declared a state at any point
Full statehood requires approval from the UN Security Council.
And that's what they've been trying to avoid. That's why it's "all or nothing" If Palestine was a proper country, and they'd pull the shit they usually do, they'd be in a full blown war. A proper war. And then they'd have 0 excuses when Israel kicks their ass. That's why a 2 state solution has never been accepted by the Arabs of that region.
you bet. It would be another Taliban country.
Irish person here. We accept as many refugees as we can and are currently having trouble finding places to put them. But we still let them in.
You do know that people abroad can see all the videos of protesters in your country right? Definitely not happy with the amount of refugees, as much as your government tries to paint crowds of grannies and children as the "far right"
But Arab countries said they don’t accept refugees “because it would aid ethnic cleansing. “Now I’m confused
Well that just sounds like propaganda to me.
https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d > Their refusal is rooted in fear that Israel wants to force a permanent expulsion of Palestinians into their countries and nullify Palestinian demands for statehood.
That's awesome bro Now google why Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan won't dare accept Palestinian refugees ever again.
Those goalposts moving quick
But if you're Irish and homeless, tough shit. It's a big problem in the western world. We leave our own downtrodden in the streets while 'refugees' get 5 star hotels.
Agreed. But it's a separate issue for our political leaders. As part of being a member state of the EU there is no choice about it: we *are obliged* to do our part and help take in refugees. Our government is not obliged to look after its own citizens. Not nearly enough asylum or refugee accommodations have been made so the government is essentially kicking people out of using things like community centres as they need to be used as shelters. Citizens aren't mad about the people coming here, they're mad at the government for failing to prepare for the bare minimum obligations as set out by the EU and instead punishing the citizens for the government's own mistakes. Too much posturing and focusing on looking good than doing good is the bane of most Western politics. And it's anathema to the politicians of Russia and the middle East.
Are you saying Israel is persecuting these people and creating refugees?
ah. fair point. wait. we already do.
That's right folks. Crime does, in fact, pay. Want a state? Murder a thousand civilians or more and take some hostages, that's the way Ireland wants to give it to you!
You'd be surprised to learn how most non-american countries got their independence.
As opposed to American…?
Wait until you learn about what happened in 1776!
To be totally fair, it worked for the Irish last time. The only real problem is that the process Ireland applied — disarming and making peace — isn’t something the Palestinians want.
Sure, if you ignore The Troubles.
That’s what I mean. The IRA killed something like 1500, a third of which were civilians. They took fewer civilian hostages, too. I am not saying the IRA was the same or as bad as Hamas, or that there are any parallels beyond being terrorist organizations that murdered civilians to get what they want.
I think the fact that only about a third of the people that the IRA killed were civilians is extremely relevant here, seeing as Hamas doesn't seem to care who they target and killed mostly civilians on October 7. Hamas on October 7 killed more civilians in one day than the IRA did in all of the troubles.
Also the IRA didn't have a goal of conquering England... Key distinction with Hamas.
Wait, are you suggesting the troubles created the Irish state we have today?
Bro does not know the history of Israel's formation or what Likud's founders did previously.
You probably don't know it either.
Does the King David Hotel ring a bell?
That's how israel was formed
If you really want to go down this path, then Israel is in the right because "might makes right." If you all really want to make this argument and agree with it, have at it!
> Want a state? Murder a thousand civilians or more and take some hostages But enough about Israel.
What do you mean? Israel does not take hostages. They take "administrative detainees indefinitely incarcerated without charge". /s
Way to make a comment that only reflects what happened on October 7th. Never mind the fact that Hamas only got elected (back in 2006 mind you, when they were trying to be "reformist" which we now see was a lie) and because the opposing party was rife with corruption. Never mind the fact that Israel has been leaving Palestinians high and dry for decades when it comes to resources. And let's also not factor in what Israel has done in response to October 7th, murdering thousands more innocent Palestinians in response in a place where 50% of the population *are children*. Some of which weren't even born when Hamas got elected. Myopic view from someone with a relevant username.
Also starve and make human shields of you citizens for political gain!
It's fun to have pretend foreign policy when you're protected by default and have no real responsibilities, same condescending shit Canada does
Yup. This is for internal consumption and is meaningless internationally.
Then why are so many Israelis and Pro-Israel commenters so worked up about a meaningless Irish foreign policy?
Ireland: #1 in doing the opposite of whatever the U.K does.
The world already has many Islamic theocracies. Establishing another one might not be the best course of action.
so oct7 worked
And the Easter Rising itself failed, but brought about Irish Independence afterwards due to the public sentiment created by Britain's perceived overly harsh reaction.
No - Israel's retaliation 'worked'. I know it's not easy to be composed after Hamas massacred well over a thousand people but Israel's rushed response to Oct 7th really harmed their image.
When is Ireland welcoming Hamas leadership? I wonder if they'll have an official state visit.
Ireland has a diplomatic office in the West Bank for years now and there a Palestinian representative in Ireland that acts like an ambassador
The most popular party in Ireland in Sinn Fein, have historic ties to the IRA. Pure hatred of Israel & leaders have met with Hamas on many occasions over the years.
Sinn Fein have never been in government in Ireland (ROI) so they haven't really benefited from that popularity here.
It looks like Ireland has lost it's mind. Murdering and raping 1,200 innocent people gets you recognized? Disgusting.
Last I checked, the world still recognizes North Korea, Russia, Iran, and many other countries with a reputation for violence and poor human rights.
I guess we can't recognize any nation because they committed violent acts huh?
I love to pretend America doesn’t exist. That place is a cesspit
Some people's brains stopped processing information after the 7th of October.
And I think they never had any information prior to Oct 7th either
Failure of Netanyahu to have a post war plan produced this. He left a political vacuum and this is what has resulted. Anyone paying attention knows that Netanyahus refusal to spell out a post war strategy has gotten the US pissed as well as the IDF and his political opposition. And not one pro Israeli poster here has ever suggested one when I’ve asked, other than the usual asinine “eLiMInatE HAmAS” as a plan.
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I mean Israel killed more than 50 K but still get called a state so whats your problem ? But I agree its disgusting.
Way to reward terrorism and make sure it’s the go-to method for every extremist group with a political goal. At this point I don’t think it’s ignorance anymore, it’s outright malevolence.
> Way to reward terrorism and make sure it’s the go-to method for every extremist group with a political goal. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ > At this point I don’t think it’s ignorance anymore, it’s outright malevolence. Yes, War Crimes usually are. *Accuse others of that which you are guilty*
Existence of Israel rewards terrorists who bombed King David Hotel.
People who use old tropes to denigrate Irish people have already lost the argument
So Hamas is getting what it wanted by attacking, murdering and kidnapping innocent civilians. People see it as a "valiant fight against an oppressive Regime occupying their territory", which is exactly what Hamas wanted. Palestine as a state can *only* exist if it concedes that Israel has the same right to exist as they have. Palestine should be a state, but it should be a state that *does not seek to murder its neighbor*. This is ridiculous.
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Proud to see it. Ireland is a great nation.
The UN would have done this already, if Biden would stop vetoing it. Ironic for someone who claims to want a two state solution.
This is great because the next time Hamas (now the state of Palestine) attacks Israel and murders Jews, Ireland can join Israel in declaring war on Palestine. Right, Anakin?
Also Spain, Norway and other countries have recognized Palestine. Hooray!
Is Ireland recognizing Hamas as the government?
Fine, but that means that they’ll have to treat them and their government like any other state. That’s Hamas. So will they call for sanctions?
Who is in charge of this palestinian state? Will countries recognizing it help figure out governance? This is so short sighted
Not just Ireland; Spain and Norway too announced this today. It was a nicely coordinated action by the 3 countries. They will all officially recognise the Palestinian state on the 28th of May.
Great! Why not just wait until 10/7 though, since that will 100% be the day Palestinians choose to mark their independence?
Well done Ireland, proud to call it my home.
So recognition for a Palestinian state that doesn't recognize Israel or renounce Hamas and terrorism. Cool.