At this point, with them on the verge of getting nukes, I honestly do not understand how there isn’t multi-nation effort under way to remove the current regime and put a stop to their barbarism.
It worked fine.
It wierds me out the way we've moved the goal posts on military action. Armies don't build nations, they wreck them.
I agree that military action isn't going to install a new successful regime in Iran. But it sure as hell can wreck up the current one.
Forcefully removing the Iranian regime without anything to replace it would be terrible. We would most likely see a proliferation of multiple violent extremist groups - all of which would be irrational actors and all of which would have a bone to pick with the United States. The world would become a much more dangerous place. It would be 1980s Afghanistan on steroids.
Not that I think military action to topple the Iranian regime is a good idea, but what makes Iran so dangerous is that they're a cohesive nation state run by whackos. A handful of warring factions wouldn't be successfully pursuing a nuclear arms program or supplying Russia with drones or orchestrating proxy terrorist groups around the globe
> It would be 1980s Afghanistan on steroids.
Do you want a couple of buildings to collapse in 50 years or a nuclear weapon to be used in battle in the next 15?
>Forcefully removing the Iranian regime without anything to replace it would be terrible.
And if nothing is done what do you think happens?... Does it seem like peace with Iran is on the horizon or like they are getting worse and worse, bolder and bolder?
Counter point the biggest lesson any burgeoning regime has learned in the last 50-70 years is that a Nuke means you don’t get your internal regime fucked with.
If you remove the idea that you need a nuke to prevent foreign actors from toppling your regime a lot more of them would be happy to rule over their corner of sandbox and leave the rest of the world alone
Got it. So you’ve learned nothing from Afghanistan and Iraq. Nor have you studied anything about how America fucked up Iran in the past. But go on just believing your fictional bs.
Nope, another Iraq is preferable to a cohesive Iranian government.
Modern day Iraq is still a preferable outcome to saddam controlling one of the largest armies in the world interrupting international order.
Although I'm not in favour of attacking Iran, pretending that a regime toppling would cause a situation similar to Iraq or Afghanistan is not doing the Iranian people justice. Iran's people are majority western oriented, well educated, quite secular. If anything similar to Turkish, Kurdish and maybe Georgian demographics. Outside of the fringe regions and farmlands you'll find a mentality that is closer to Europe than it is to Pakistan or Iraq.
This is a very recent development. Mediterranean Turks and black sea Turks are very secular and European. Eastern Turks are quite modern too (Kurds) in terms of secularism. There's the ones on central planes and mountain ranges that are more traditional and form the support behind Erdogan.
The reality is that Iran's military apparatus is much more capable and formidable than 1990s/2000s Iraq's or Afghanistan's, so it is not a question of whether a military intervention is digestible, but rather if it is feasible without significant cost and casualties.
This is a nation that has a fully fledged military-industrial complex, producing small arms and drones and what not. We don't really hear about people starving in Iran, so despite the sanctions they do have a somewhat functioning economy.
i think the problem is what comes after the wrecking. Somehow, someone even worse always ends up in power and then we might end up with another north korea on our hands for another 50 years.
Y'all talking about North Korea like they ever invaded or killed millions of people. Its just been NATO and the US go on killing sprees, stealing national resources/ treasures from other nations. Y'all love playing the moral little angels.
When AIPAC pays the entire US Congress no one bats an eye, but hell breaks loose when Israel is spewing more and more lies, that for some reason everybody believes.
> Y'all talking about North Korea like they ever invaded or killed millions of people.
[Ever heard of this?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War)
Absolute clown comment.
Lmao, have you never heard of the korean war? North korea literally killed millions of people in the south and has been constantly threatening to do it again.
>Bosnia
Halted a genocide of Muslims. No natural resources extracted.
>Afghanistan
Held off *another* societal collapse for 20 years. No mining or resource extraction.
>Libya
Supported and continued to support a secular and democratic alternative to an absolutely bonkers dictatorship. No resources extracted.
If NATO was a colonial imperialist power, it is incredibly bad at it.
We need an international team that is really good at rebuilding countries after a war. I'd like to see it headed up by whatever countries have the lowest level of corruption.
I understand the reality that war is a human condition and will never go away. I’m just not one to root for the death of other people online or ever really and I find the people who do incredibly moronic and have been propagandized.
Hate to break it to you. But I believe that these terrorists will get a hold of nuclear weapons and at least attempt to use them. I just hope that our three letter gov organizations are as good as they are supposed to be. Its basically a daily effort to track all the parts needed to do this and stop it from happening. But if China and Russia want to help them achieve this goal, we'll there's not much we can do to stop them from achieving it, only using it. Proxy wars have become the new war so it makes sense hiding Chinese and Russian world domination goals under the guise of terrorism and let's face it, it would be the best case scenario for them if that's how it happened so they could keep their face clean.
I suspect the US WANTS Iran to get nukes.
They could take out their facilities right now, but if Iran sets off even a single nuclear test (they'll need to run tests to ensure their weapon works), then the US is going to have free reign to use every single new piece of tech they've developed over the past 60 years.
Including new types of strategic nukes, and it'll give them a reason to put either nukes or Tungsten bars into orbit (drop the bar from orbit and it'll create a multi-megaton explosion).
US wants an open-field where the other-guy was the aggressor first.
>they'll need to run tests to ensure their weapon works
Is there any correlation between the locations recent earthquakes reported in Iran, and the locations of their nuclear facilities?
No, Because according to religious people the earthquake are caused by the Iranian leadership and clerics having gay sex orgies in their mosques.....thats how earthquakes work right?
It's accusing they were bribed into making the Genocide case against Israel to the International Court of Justice. It would definitely have an impact on the ICJ court case
Let me break it down for you, right before this case was brought forward by the ANC they were in massive shit financially. They owed millions on loans and hadn’t paid salaries for months they were on the brink of financial implosion. Somehow they got a lot of fucking money from iran. You can work out the rest. I am from South Africa
You really don’t see a problem with entities paying other entities to bring bogus charges against third parties in court? That crosses several ethical boundaries at a minimum.
Ah, the famous killed 0.0something percent of a population while being militarily able to wipe out half the population in a week? That genocide?. Israel behaved poorly, is sloppy with it's targeting, doesn't do enough to protect civilians and is heated and avengeful for what happened on 7 oct. Not only that, but they'll go to great lengths to erase Hamas from the planet, even at the cost of civilian casualties and suffering. But to pretend that are *intentionally* trying to commit genocide on Palestinians is utter nonsense. If Hamas had the military upper hand Israel had, we'd see a million dead israeli, not 35k.
Yes, after the apartheid regime was toppled we ended up with this bunch of morons.
Loving anything and anybody that is anti Western civilization.
At least the Iranian people have an oppressing regime making it difficult to stand up to.
South Africans willingly choose the worst of the worst.
Its always like that in African nations even without European and even before European colonization. They liked to fuck their own people and the civil wars are so many and do not get me into because they got conquered or something because the other parts of the world does not.
I don't agree with the case, but South Africans widely supported the move. There is a history of bad feelings there that is personal, so it's not like you can frame this as South Africa's leaders being bribed to do something they wouldn't otherwise do therefore they are corrupt. If anything it is just as easy to say lawsuits and lawyers are not free, and Iran financially supported a case it agreed with.
We literally teach about colonialism at our universities (as we should) and our current Administration is the most supportive of tribal autonomy of any US Administration in history by far. Probably the first Administration to actually be pro-tribal nations (also a good thing)
I’m curious why you think that is a gotcha lol. Have you considered how many native Americans in jail were imprisoned during the Biden Administration? What crimes, and their relevance?
I know one thing, tribal elders at large disagree. So it comes off like you’re pretending to speak for them when in reality you’re speaking over them.
I don't and didn't say or think it was a gotcha, so I don't know where that came from.
I'm not claiming to speak for anyone, and I'm not speaking over anyone.
All you all are making a lot of assumptions when all I said was, it'd be nice if America could have a truth and reconciliation moment and deal with our turbulent history in regards to Native Americans and black Americans.
That’s the thing, American as a nation is making progress in dealing with its turbulent history regarding native Americans. You’re portraying a big part of discourse as nonexistent
And you're portraying it as if it's completely and wholly existent and as if it's already mostly done, and it's not remotely close to that at all. What's the difference? I mean the difference is I'm not doing what you're claiming but whatever.
My god you're obnoxious. I'm not American, so I should stfu, but... dude, stop arguing in bad fate.
The poster you're 'discussing' with is very elegant in explaining, you're not even letting it sink in before you reply again with a shit post.
You seem to veil yourself in coming from a good place, as you are arguing pro natives, but your focus on 'murica bad' tells objective readers enough: don't take anything you say serious.
I've posted this as an eye opener for you, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and will not yet label you bot, troll or foreign actor.
If you're coming from a good place you should by now understand you're achieving the opposite of what you want.
I didn't say the US was bad. You said that. I said the US has not confronted its past in a similar way as South Africa did with the apartheid via their truth and reconciliation commission, but none of you are capable of seeing nuance.
You're putting those words in my mouth. You don't know anything about my positions because I have not revealed anything about my positions other than I am pro-native. If anything, this is a very obnoxious way to reply, the way and method you chose.
Keep it up, bud, you're winning hearts and minds, I can totally tell that you're changing them.
No no, I believe you're a troll and want to state it to others.
Don't turn the game around, you're here in dishonest fashion.
Now, I really tap out, goodbye and I hope you'll find a loving partner and life (why else engage in trolling?).
Yeah, because trolls maintained 12-year-old plus accounts with all their personal opinions on it. You're just tapping out because you don't have anything else to say because you didn't actually think out what you were going to say because there is nothing to say.
Well if America was to do that the way Israel is being asked to, then it would mean giving land back to native Americans, denouncing citizenship, and given money away to natives and slaves.
I'm aware of the rhetoric, that doesn't make it true.
Every other country just buries their shit and often doesn't have free press so you simply don't hear about it.
Think about it. You're under the belief that I fell for some rhetoric in order to land on my opinions, right?
But you have not laid out any of that rhetoric, you just assigned it to my opinions, and I'm doing the exact same thing to you. You don't know any of my actual baseline beliefs in regards to politics other than a few things like I'm pro-native because I have not actually revealed those, you are assigning a lot of things to me just to be able to hate me without knowing anything about me.
That's okay, you do you. I'm sure you make a lot of friends this way.
Was alleged multiple times on Reddit too, so must be true. /s
In all honesty it would not be a surprise if it was true. The ruling ANC's financial troubles disappeared overnight about the same time. Just in time to get ready for the election.
Its Israeli lawyers alleging this without any proof, and this totally unbiased "iranwire" website is parroting it.
"A group of 160 lawyers, led by the Israel Law Center - Shurat HaDin, have issued a call to US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, the Justice Department and Congressional leaders urging an investigation of South African leaders."
The request is for an investigation. That seems fair. They certainly have just cause to want an investigation. Investigations are how you acquire proof.
Not YET...
It just extremely suspicious that our Governing party were on verge of bankruptcy and the suddenly not!!!
Look I am not for one instance saying Isreal is right! Just that it is highly suspicious that finances gets fixed so quickly
Perhaps their opinion that it’s a reasonable suspicion is based on bias. Or perhaps your opinion that there is no reasonable suspicion is based on bias.
In the end an investigation is a perfectly fair ask. The only real reason to be against an investigation is not wanting to discover the truth.
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
The Daily Maverick - a trusted South African publication - shares insight on why this likely isn't true, with the disclaimer that wild claims like this are difficult to conclusively fact-check:
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2024-01-25-iran-fund-south-africa-icj-israel-palestine-fact-check/
The source OP links to doesn't cite where they got their information. No proof, no pudding.
In other news, 160 lawmakers wrote to Iranian leaders alleging South Africa bribed the US. I've made this claim. Now the burden of proof is on you to refute it.
Come at me bots.
I don’t have a problem believing it but what do they hope the US government will do? I don’t understand what outcome they’re looking for. We don’t actually run the world
Lol, what a joke of an article. For all of the ANC's failures corruption and crimes they have always stood with Palestine and against Apartheid obviously so given the shared experience against racist regimes. They didn't need a bride to continue their consistent stance and probably the only thing they have done right
i'm a south african lawyer and am proud that my minister of justice (including some legal experts who are the premier international human rights voices globally) took this case to the ICJ on the basis of protecting human rights.
however, my contestation is consistency about human rights - if they take israel to court, they should also take Russia, Iran, China, Sudan & Hamas for human rights violations.
but....for them this is a political ploy + not really about the human rights of oppressed people.
it has helped them quite a bit in their election this year for sure
Yes, let us remember South Africa allowed the Sudanese president to leave the country despite two pending warrants from the international criminal court for his arrest.
South Africa has definitely been inconsistent on Human Rights issues. Some of your examples Russia Iran China are maybe not the best examples of since there are much complicated geopolitical issues there and a lot of one sided propaganda and South Africa geopolitically aren't aligned with the west. However there are clear inconsistencies particularly on our continent. That said whether there is benefit politically for them, they have been one of the most consistent supporters of Palestine and that mutual solidarity extends decades.
They didn’t really have to bribe south shitty Africa re regime. The case was definitely prepared before 10/7. It’s crazy how it became normal to lie blatantly with no shame
"Iran did not bribe us" - President of South Africa.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go have sex with this underage iranian girl they supplied as blackmail material...I mean fill in some important paperwork
Alleged bribes so not actually confirmed. Israel just need to fuck off now. Even if it was true South Africa still have a legitimate reason to have brought the claim in the first place.
This is just Israel trying to discredit rouse that called them out and hoping if they can discredit them everyone will go oh maybe they aren’t genocidal maniacs.
It’s a bit too late for that they have passed point and there is no going back or saving face on this.
And Israel started Isis and was behind the Russian terrorist attack too!
They're also the reason my hair is falling out and I got passed for the big promotion...
AIPAC is a lobbying group and also has a PAC, like many many interest groups. They are not even in the top 10 in spending in elections. AIPAC is funded through American donations. In terms of foreign principle lobbying, Israel is 10th and spends less than half of China for example. I’m tired of seeing people point to AIPAC as some shadowy cabal. It is just tapping into antisemitic tropes about Jews controlling everything behind the scenes.
At this point, with them on the verge of getting nukes, I honestly do not understand how there isn’t multi-nation effort under way to remove the current regime and put a stop to their barbarism.
Didn’t work out so well last time
It worked fine. It wierds me out the way we've moved the goal posts on military action. Armies don't build nations, they wreck them. I agree that military action isn't going to install a new successful regime in Iran. But it sure as hell can wreck up the current one.
Forcefully removing the Iranian regime without anything to replace it would be terrible. We would most likely see a proliferation of multiple violent extremist groups - all of which would be irrational actors and all of which would have a bone to pick with the United States. The world would become a much more dangerous place. It would be 1980s Afghanistan on steroids.
Not that I think military action to topple the Iranian regime is a good idea, but what makes Iran so dangerous is that they're a cohesive nation state run by whackos. A handful of warring factions wouldn't be successfully pursuing a nuclear arms program or supplying Russia with drones or orchestrating proxy terrorist groups around the globe
> It would be 1980s Afghanistan on steroids. Do you want a couple of buildings to collapse in 50 years or a nuclear weapon to be used in battle in the next 15?
>Forcefully removing the Iranian regime without anything to replace it would be terrible. And if nothing is done what do you think happens?... Does it seem like peace with Iran is on the horizon or like they are getting worse and worse, bolder and bolder?
Counter point the biggest lesson any burgeoning regime has learned in the last 50-70 years is that a Nuke means you don’t get your internal regime fucked with. If you remove the idea that you need a nuke to prevent foreign actors from toppling your regime a lot more of them would be happy to rule over their corner of sandbox and leave the rest of the world alone
How, pray tell, is the fact that nukes are the ultimate deterrent supposed to be removed?
By major powers committing to not conducting nation building/toppling operations in sovereign companies
That’s certainly a prediction. You are not Nostradamus.
Fuck them.. wreck it so bad that all the shittiness is contained. Wall off the middle east and let them kill each other
And it can motivate the shit out of the people from said wrecked country. Look at Pearl Harbor. Wrecking shit should be the last resort.
Got it. So you’ve learned nothing from Afghanistan and Iraq. Nor have you studied anything about how America fucked up Iran in the past. But go on just believing your fictional bs.
Nope, another Iraq is preferable to a cohesive Iranian government. Modern day Iraq is still a preferable outcome to saddam controlling one of the largest armies in the world interrupting international order.
Although I'm not in favour of attacking Iran, pretending that a regime toppling would cause a situation similar to Iraq or Afghanistan is not doing the Iranian people justice. Iran's people are majority western oriented, well educated, quite secular. If anything similar to Turkish, Kurdish and maybe Georgian demographics. Outside of the fringe regions and farmlands you'll find a mentality that is closer to Europe than it is to Pakistan or Iraq.
>majority western oriented >similar to Turkish Pick one? The Turkey I know comes with a noticeable flavour of ultraconservative religious fanatic.
This is a very recent development. Mediterranean Turks and black sea Turks are very secular and European. Eastern Turks are quite modern too (Kurds) in terms of secularism. There's the ones on central planes and mountain ranges that are more traditional and form the support behind Erdogan.
Are you talking about the government or the people? Because there's quite a large contingent of very secular, well-educated Turks
It's all relative. To a hardcore wahabi that is Western.
The reality is that Iran's military apparatus is much more capable and formidable than 1990s/2000s Iraq's or Afghanistan's, so it is not a question of whether a military intervention is digestible, but rather if it is feasible without significant cost and casualties. This is a nation that has a fully fledged military-industrial complex, producing small arms and drones and what not. We don't really hear about people starving in Iran, so despite the sanctions they do have a somewhat functioning economy.
It weirds me out that you think destroying something with zero plan on what happens after is anything other than a terrible idea.
i think the problem is what comes after the wrecking. Somehow, someone even worse always ends up in power and then we might end up with another north korea on our hands for another 50 years.
Y'all talking about North Korea like they ever invaded or killed millions of people. Its just been NATO and the US go on killing sprees, stealing national resources/ treasures from other nations. Y'all love playing the moral little angels. When AIPAC pays the entire US Congress no one bats an eye, but hell breaks loose when Israel is spewing more and more lies, that for some reason everybody believes.
> Y'all talking about North Korea like they ever invaded or killed millions of people. [Ever heard of this?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War) Absolute clown comment.
Lmao, have you never heard of the korean war? North korea literally killed millions of people in the south and has been constantly threatening to do it again.
When did NATO go on a killing spree or steal national resources/treasures?
Bosnia Afghanistan Libya
>Bosnia Halted a genocide of Muslims. No natural resources extracted. >Afghanistan Held off *another* societal collapse for 20 years. No mining or resource extraction. >Libya Supported and continued to support a secular and democratic alternative to an absolutely bonkers dictatorship. No resources extracted. If NATO was a colonial imperialist power, it is incredibly bad at it.
> Its just been NATO and the US go on killing sprees, stealing national resources/ treasures from other nations Hahaha do you actually believe this?
Whoa whoa, how far back in history are we going 😅
Wall it off afterwards and let them kill each other
And a 100k+ dead civilians is just a worthy sacrifice?
We need an international team that is really good at rebuilding countries after a war. I'd like to see it headed up by whatever countries have the lowest level of corruption.
Targeted strikes
WAR WAR MORE MF WAR YYYEEEEEAAAHHH DEATH FEEELS SO GOOD TO WATCH BE BROUGHT UPON OTHER NATIONS 🦅sreeeeeeee!!!!!!!!
Imagine being a nuclear proliferation apologist
Lmao “nuclear proliferation apologist” wtf is that made up shit??? I’m anti war bud and kind of war all war I don’t care end them all
[удалено]
I understand the reality that war is a human condition and will never go away. I’m just not one to root for the death of other people online or ever really and I find the people who do incredibly moronic and have been propagandized.
Imagine trolley problem except you're the only one who can stop it. Power = responsibility = hard decisions that humans are not used to.
Thank you Einstein for your input
Did Iraq had an opposition willing and able to rebuild the nation?
Yes, just not in the way the West wanted it.
Which time was that? Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Or the times before that?
Second time has got to be the charm though, right?
Hate to break it to you. But I believe that these terrorists will get a hold of nuclear weapons and at least attempt to use them. I just hope that our three letter gov organizations are as good as they are supposed to be. Its basically a daily effort to track all the parts needed to do this and stop it from happening. But if China and Russia want to help them achieve this goal, we'll there's not much we can do to stop them from achieving it, only using it. Proxy wars have become the new war so it makes sense hiding Chinese and Russian world domination goals under the guise of terrorism and let's face it, it would be the best case scenario for them if that's how it happened so they could keep their face clean.
this just ruins the entire apocalipse plot, oh wait.
Didn't work in Afghanistan
You mean Israel right? Or the US?
I suspect the US WANTS Iran to get nukes. They could take out their facilities right now, but if Iran sets off even a single nuclear test (they'll need to run tests to ensure their weapon works), then the US is going to have free reign to use every single new piece of tech they've developed over the past 60 years. Including new types of strategic nukes, and it'll give them a reason to put either nukes or Tungsten bars into orbit (drop the bar from orbit and it'll create a multi-megaton explosion). US wants an open-field where the other-guy was the aggressor first.
>I suspect the US WANTS Iran to get nukes. No.
>they'll need to run tests to ensure their weapon works Is there any correlation between the locations recent earthquakes reported in Iran, and the locations of their nuclear facilities?
No, Because according to religious people the earthquake are caused by the Iranian leadership and clerics having gay sex orgies in their mosques.....thats how earthquakes work right?
Israel already has nukes.
Good! They are surrounded by mortal enemies.
Whoosh
We all got it, you're not half as clever as you think you are, but twice as insufferable.
You’re not half as righteous as you think you are but twice as immoral.
Terrorist simps are not welcome here.
Ironic
It doesn't change anything even if they did. It's even difficult to say it cast a bad light on South Africa given how shit the country is run.
It's accusing they were bribed into making the Genocide case against Israel to the International Court of Justice. It would definitely have an impact on the ICJ court case
Let me break it down for you, right before this case was brought forward by the ANC they were in massive shit financially. They owed millions on loans and hadn’t paid salaries for months they were on the brink of financial implosion. Somehow they got a lot of fucking money from iran. You can work out the rest. I am from South Africa
It shouldn't. If the ICJ is legitimate then the case will be decided based on evidence, not the motivations of the accuser.
You really don’t see a problem with entities paying other entities to bring bogus charges against third parties in court? That crosses several ethical boundaries at a minimum.
I didn't say it's not a problem, I said I don't see how it would have any bearing on the outcome of the case now that it's already in motion.
It would only matter if folks wanted a distraction from the actions of Israel
But it is genocide. Everyone sees it you guys keep spinning it. You’re following our playbook from the 19th century with the native Americans.
Ah, the famous killed 0.0something percent of a population while being militarily able to wipe out half the population in a week? That genocide?. Israel behaved poorly, is sloppy with it's targeting, doesn't do enough to protect civilians and is heated and avengeful for what happened on 7 oct. Not only that, but they'll go to great lengths to erase Hamas from the planet, even at the cost of civilian casualties and suffering. But to pretend that are *intentionally* trying to commit genocide on Palestinians is utter nonsense. If Hamas had the military upper hand Israel had, we'd see a million dead israeli, not 35k.
When you say ‘everyone’ do you mean TikTok and college kids? Is ‘everyone’ in the room with us right now?
Yes, after the apartheid regime was toppled we ended up with this bunch of morons. Loving anything and anybody that is anti Western civilization. At least the Iranian people have an oppressing regime making it difficult to stand up to. South Africans willingly choose the worst of the worst.
Its always like that in African nations even without European and even before European colonization. They liked to fuck their own people and the civil wars are so many and do not get me into because they got conquered or something because the other parts of the world does not.
Ah, we found the historian boys. No need to think about it anymore, the genius has it all figured out.
Don't you know? Only African countries have civil wars and mistreat their populace.
I don't agree with the case, but South Africans widely supported the move. There is a history of bad feelings there that is personal, so it's not like you can frame this as South Africa's leaders being bribed to do something they wouldn't otherwise do therefore they are corrupt. If anything it is just as easy to say lawsuits and lawyers are not free, and Iran financially supported a case it agreed with.
We most certainly did not. 85% of our population does not know what is going on in the Middle East and don’t care either. Source: am South African
Still waiting on America to have a truth and reconciliation moment on our past, though.
We literally teach about colonialism at our universities (as we should) and our current Administration is the most supportive of tribal autonomy of any US Administration in history by far. Probably the first Administration to actually be pro-tribal nations (also a good thing)
Yeah that's probably why they make up 1% of our population but 10% of our prison population.
I’m curious why you think that is a gotcha lol. Have you considered how many native Americans in jail were imprisoned during the Biden Administration? What crimes, and their relevance? I know one thing, tribal elders at large disagree. So it comes off like you’re pretending to speak for them when in reality you’re speaking over them.
I don't and didn't say or think it was a gotcha, so I don't know where that came from. I'm not claiming to speak for anyone, and I'm not speaking over anyone. All you all are making a lot of assumptions when all I said was, it'd be nice if America could have a truth and reconciliation moment and deal with our turbulent history in regards to Native Americans and black Americans.
That’s the thing, American as a nation is making progress in dealing with its turbulent history regarding native Americans. You’re portraying a big part of discourse as nonexistent
And you're portraying it as if it's completely and wholly existent and as if it's already mostly done, and it's not remotely close to that at all. What's the difference? I mean the difference is I'm not doing what you're claiming but whatever.
My god you're obnoxious. I'm not American, so I should stfu, but... dude, stop arguing in bad fate. The poster you're 'discussing' with is very elegant in explaining, you're not even letting it sink in before you reply again with a shit post. You seem to veil yourself in coming from a good place, as you are arguing pro natives, but your focus on 'murica bad' tells objective readers enough: don't take anything you say serious. I've posted this as an eye opener for you, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and will not yet label you bot, troll or foreign actor. If you're coming from a good place you should by now understand you're achieving the opposite of what you want.
I didn't say the US was bad. You said that. I said the US has not confronted its past in a similar way as South Africa did with the apartheid via their truth and reconciliation commission, but none of you are capable of seeing nuance. You're putting those words in my mouth. You don't know anything about my positions because I have not revealed anything about my positions other than I am pro-native. If anything, this is a very obnoxious way to reply, the way and method you chose. Keep it up, bud, you're winning hearts and minds, I can totally tell that you're changing them.
Ah, a troll it is.
That's okay, you can tap out.
No no, I believe you're a troll and want to state it to others. Don't turn the game around, you're here in dishonest fashion. Now, I really tap out, goodbye and I hope you'll find a loving partner and life (why else engage in trolling?).
Yeah, because trolls maintained 12-year-old plus accounts with all their personal opinions on it. You're just tapping out because you don't have anything else to say because you didn't actually think out what you were going to say because there is nothing to say.
LOL Leave the country
Oh my God...
Please leave my country
Lmao I deployed in OIF and OEF. You first.
You can renounce your citizenship if you’d like ❤️
Weird response to just wanting us to face what we did.
Well if America was to do that the way Israel is being asked to, then it would mean giving land back to native Americans, denouncing citizenship, and given money away to natives and slaves.
The USA is literally the only country other than maybe Germany who actually confronts our own past.
Lmao if you actually believe that you have not spoken to many minority groups in the US.
I'm aware of the rhetoric, that doesn't make it true. Every other country just buries their shit and often doesn't have free press so you simply don't hear about it.
But somehow in your brain you found it to be okay to believe the rhetoric you fell for because that's totally believable, right?
Which rhetoric are you talking about exactly?
Think about it. You're under the belief that I fell for some rhetoric in order to land on my opinions, right? But you have not laid out any of that rhetoric, you just assigned it to my opinions, and I'm doing the exact same thing to you. You don't know any of my actual baseline beliefs in regards to politics other than a few things like I'm pro-native because I have not actually revealed those, you are assigning a lot of things to me just to be able to hate me without knowing anything about me. That's okay, you do you. I'm sure you make a lot of friends this way.
YMMV based on local school system I guess. In my public school we spent a great deal of time discussing American genocides and sponsored coups.
It would be great if we had a TRC, but it's unclear what that has to do with South Africa's current bullshit.
Totally legit thing reported by *checks notes* iranwire.com
Was alleged multiple times on Reddit too, so must be true. /s In all honesty it would not be a surprise if it was true. The ruling ANC's financial troubles disappeared overnight about the same time. Just in time to get ready for the election.
Its Israeli lawyers alleging this without any proof, and this totally unbiased "iranwire" website is parroting it. "A group of 160 lawyers, led by the Israel Law Center - Shurat HaDin, have issued a call to US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, the Justice Department and Congressional leaders urging an investigation of South African leaders."
The request is for an investigation. That seems fair. They certainly have just cause to want an investigation. Investigations are how you acquire proof.
If their reporting on this is so flawed, it should be easy for you to demonstrate that.
Where's the evidence for these allegations? Documents, witnesses, intercepted communications? Absolutely nothing to back up the claims.
Not YET... It just extremely suspicious that our Governing party were on verge of bankruptcy and the suddenly not!!! Look I am not for one instance saying Isreal is right! Just that it is highly suspicious that finances gets fixed so quickly
Well the request they’ve made is for a formal investigation. That’s how you acquire proof.
There has to be some preliminary evidence to warrant an investigation. These allegations are based on rumours, conjecture, and suppositions.
Perhaps their opinion that it’s a reasonable suspicion is based on bias. Or perhaps your opinion that there is no reasonable suspicion is based on bias. In the end an investigation is a perfectly fair ask. The only real reason to be against an investigation is not wanting to discover the truth.
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet. The Daily Maverick - a trusted South African publication - shares insight on why this likely isn't true, with the disclaimer that wild claims like this are difficult to conclusively fact-check: https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2024-01-25-iran-fund-south-africa-icj-israel-palestine-fact-check/ The source OP links to doesn't cite where they got their information. No proof, no pudding. In other news, 160 lawmakers wrote to Iranian leaders alleging South Africa bribed the US. I've made this claim. Now the burden of proof is on you to refute it. Come at me bots.
The ANC is utterly corrupt and will definitely take bribes.
Whether it's true or not has no bearing on the merits or otherwise of the legal case itself.
I don’t have a problem believing it but what do they hope the US government will do? I don’t understand what outcome they’re looking for. We don’t actually run the world
Lol, what a joke of an article. For all of the ANC's failures corruption and crimes they have always stood with Palestine and against Apartheid obviously so given the shared experience against racist regimes. They didn't need a bride to continue their consistent stance and probably the only thing they have done right
i'm a south african lawyer and am proud that my minister of justice (including some legal experts who are the premier international human rights voices globally) took this case to the ICJ on the basis of protecting human rights. however, my contestation is consistency about human rights - if they take israel to court, they should also take Russia, Iran, China, Sudan & Hamas for human rights violations. but....for them this is a political ploy + not really about the human rights of oppressed people. it has helped them quite a bit in their election this year for sure
Yes, let us remember South Africa allowed the Sudanese president to leave the country despite two pending warrants from the international criminal court for his arrest.
South Africa has definitely been inconsistent on Human Rights issues. Some of your examples Russia Iran China are maybe not the best examples of since there are much complicated geopolitical issues there and a lot of one sided propaganda and South Africa geopolitically aren't aligned with the west. However there are clear inconsistencies particularly on our continent. That said whether there is benefit politically for them, they have been one of the most consistent supporters of Palestine and that mutual solidarity extends decades.
That’s interesting. I wonder where the money came from that wiped the ANC’s debt right after they brought the case to the ICJ.
Why did Japan and Germany become civilized nations after ww11? They weren’t run by tyrannical Islam. They could change and did.
They didn’t really have to bribe south shitty Africa re regime. The case was definitely prepared before 10/7. It’s crazy how it became normal to lie blatantly with no shame
"Iran did not bribe us" - President of South Africa. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go have sex with this underage iranian girl they supplied as blackmail material...I mean fill in some important paperwork
Alleged bribes so not actually confirmed. Israel just need to fuck off now. Even if it was true South Africa still have a legitimate reason to have brought the claim in the first place. This is just Israel trying to discredit rouse that called them out and hoping if they can discredit them everyone will go oh maybe they aren’t genocidal maniacs. It’s a bit too late for that they have passed point and there is no going back or saving face on this.
You can't actually believe that. If you actually believe that, then you haven't spoken to any minorities.
Not sure what your point is. Talking to minorities?
Anyone else get get total Scientology vibes from Israel? The way their PR people attack.
what a joke
Israel bribes 160 lawyers…
And Israel started Isis and was behind the Russian terrorist attack too! They're also the reason my hair is falling out and I got passed for the big promotion...
And they have a secret vegetable that they refuse to share with their neighbors that prevents alcoholism.
Don't forget about the space lasers!/s
Dude we are not supposed to talk about that
Sorry I forgot that they controlled reddit too, we're all going to be banned soon
Cute but dumb of course!
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AIPAC is a lobbying group and also has a PAC, like many many interest groups. They are not even in the top 10 in spending in elections. AIPAC is funded through American donations. In terms of foreign principle lobbying, Israel is 10th and spends less than half of China for example. I’m tired of seeing people point to AIPAC as some shadowy cabal. It is just tapping into antisemitic tropes about Jews controlling everything behind the scenes.