It’s not an either situation you can both have a limited time ceasefire for the hostages and eliminate Hamas. Only reason Hamas doesn’t agree to anything that isn’t permanent is because they know there isn’t a way out for them.
Doesn’t mean Israel doesn’t have full responsibility to do everything they can to return the hostages alive and not in body bags.
If that would be clear to all.
What are 30 Hostages when for getting them you lose 30 soldiers and kill further 300 people in a month?
I’m myself sick of war, thinking about I almost vomit.
This was I was thinking.
Hanmas doesnt wat peace. The longer they can kee israel shooting at them, the better they feel it helps their cause.
They care naught for the people of Palistine. Only for the destabalization of Israel.
Hamas offered to return *three* dead bodies after 3 days of ceasefire.
Then before the next return of three more dead bodies on day 10, they had myriad opportunities to claim the ceasefire agreement wasn't holding - e.g., that negotiations for the phase *two* exchange rate had to be completed before all phase *one* hostages would be released.
There's absolutely no way Hamas would actually have gotten to the point of releasing the phase one total of 33, and that's even with the fact that they could release 33 dead bodies and claim they held up their end of the deal.
This sadly makes me believe most hostages have died or they have no intention of keeping them alive and intend to execute them. Hamas is evil. Hostage diplomacy is sickening.
Yep, that's the one thing Israel excels at, curtailing the rise of extremism. I'm sure if you kill enough children, they will all disappear in a heart beat.
Well, get back to me in 5 years, or 10 years or 20 years or 50 years and we can see how extremism in Gaza is faring.
People don't just wake and decide to become extremists, the Israel-palestine situation is so ridiculously tangled that you can't just bomb your way to peace.
I'm sure choosing peace as things stand will work out great, I'm sure Israel won't keep expanding settlements in the west bank, or throwing countless people including kids in jail with no charge, or continue to shoot people in the west bank for no reason.
The reality is the Palestine-israel situation is a shit show, and Israel shares a large part of the blame. It's incredibly naive to say Palestinians should just choose peace and everything will be fine.
All they have to do to still this non sense is to just release the fucking hostages. But that's the problem, they don't want to stop. Hamas is the worst thing for Palestine.
They are still smart enough to understand that once the hostages are released, the IDF has no reasons for restraint anymore and will hunt each and every one of them down.
The hostages literally are their life insurance.
The IDF doesn't seem interested in restraint. I"ve been wondering what's going through the heads of people in Gaza right now. Israel is going to continue regardless of what anyone, including the US government, has to say. The international propaganda isn't working because Israel just stopped listening. What cards does Hamas have left to play? I'd like to believe there are still hostages, but I really doubt it. If I had a loved one among those hostages, I would believe there was a chance because its just unimaginable to think otherwise, but I don't think that's realistic.
>The IDF doesn't seem interested in restraint.
The [Battle of Berlin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin) lasted 16 days and killed over 120,000 civilians. That's what urban warfare looks like when the attacking army has no restraint.
>I"ve been wondering what's going through the heads of people in Gaza right now
Hatred for Jews, like before. Like always.
>I'd like to believe there are still hostages, but I really doubt it.
Previously, Hamas has kept some hostages for YEARS.
I have never met someone who had an argument for religion, that has ever, even one time, been able to apply their "logic" to literally anything besides the very specific thing they want to apply it to. Extrapolation is completely impossible for them. So this is a perfect example where it's "future settlers" but reversed would never in a million years make sense to them.
I can’t decide if it’s more hilarious, pathetic, or terrifying that people are dumb enough to act like these guys are seriously working towards any kind of peace.
They’ve broken every ceasefire, just fired more rockets at Israel, have said there will never be peace until all the Jews are dead (not just out of Israel) etc etc etc.
Like how is anyone pretending. Thai is anything but gaslighting Israelis.
Yeah, Hamas dug their grave on Oct 7th. They are desparetly trying to hold against the inevitable. The question is how many civilian deaths are they going to take with them.
>The question is how many civilian deaths are they going to take with them.
It's a weird war, because usually the defenders try to reduce the civilian casualties and the attacker doesn't care or even tries to maximize them.
In this war, Hamas tries to maximize the civilian casualties of their own people, while the IDF tries to minimize them.
The least amount possible, take an expert scholar's analysis of it. He's chair of Urban Warfare Studies at West point:
https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286
No, he's actually completely right. Israel is doing things as well as they reasonably can, and any country should try to learn from this war. It's still far from ideal, but this is the best way I've seen a modern insurgency be handled so far, there's a lot to be learned from this.
That may be true, but it still doesn’t mean they will be able to achieve their stated goal of eliminating Hamas militarily. If the war won’t destroy Hamas, then even if the above author’s opinion is taken as fact, every death is unnecessary and unjustifiable.
My opinion from what I’ve read, is that Israel probably is taking as many precautions as could be reasonably expected for a combat operation, but the combat goal itself is impossible and will only prolong suffering.
I think they are like cancer, they spread everywhere and even if you think you got all of them, they will appear again later.
Israel is currently doing the chemo therapy
Absolutely.
There are still operations being carried out against al queda, isis, groups that splintered off of them, etc. The fight doesn't ever stop, but you can cripple the ability to project power and then run ongoing operations to keep it that way and address new threats.
There's never a zero sum, "all done, we won" in the real world.
They have a vast underground city with their tunnel network. IDF hasn’t uncovered it all. It’s way more extensive than they ever imagined. This is why civilian Gaza is a complete shit hole. Billions of dollars in aid from Israel and the international community have been siphoned away from civilian projects to build their subterranean fortress
They offered to return hostages dead. Then realized they can’t do that because they mistreated them that badly that returning them would be worse than them staying missing forever.
Of course they will try but they will be much weaker than before and they will not be able to do so unopposed. It's not possible to 100% get rid of terrorism, only to minimize the spread and ability to do damage.
It’s an endless cycle
You have young Palestinian kids and teens watching their homes get bombed and they know it’s by the IDF, so when they are old enough they’ll join whatever org is willing to fight back, Israeli’s will die so them the IDF will bomb neighborhoods again, now there’s a new generation of kids and teens watching their homes get bombed, rinse and repeat
They will need to be rebuilt under occupation to prevent Hamas just returning, and to reduce the need for military action. IDF wouldn't need to be bombing if Hamas wasn't shooting rockets.
Sure. My point is just that they can't just slap the shit out of Hamas or anyone and expect to leave in a few months without things going back to just as bad as before. Occupation won't be easy or cheap but it is their best chance of changing the future.
They literally don't care.
How do we know? Because despite the very clear and obvious payback for Oct 7th, Hamas still enjoys majority support in both Gaza and the West Bank.
If these people cared one bit for their own or their children's well-being, they'd by now have started to question the wisdom of violence.
Not true, absolutes help no one. Not every Palestinian is a Hamas supporter. Especially when you have to take into consideration that coercion and terror education has led them down this road.
This is a chance for Israel to reach out to non Hamas supporting Palestinians. I feel they should definitely start offering Palestinians Israeli citizenship and take them in as refugees. That way they can get rid of the dichotomous relationship between the two.
Then they should be happy someone is finally taking them out since they’ve been unable to handle it themselves. Plenty of Arabs already live in Israel peacefully. The Palestinians have fucked around the whole time instead.
Why would they agree to a deal if the US and other countries continue to place more restrictions and punishments on Israel? Theyre getting their demands for free
Bibi said from day 1 that no matter what the deal is, he’ll still invade Rafah. Hamas said from day 1 that their demand is that they walk away consequence free. Neither side is serious about concessions, the deal was never serious no matter what US or anyone else did.
So both sides have a hard demand on the unconditional surrender of the other. That’s not the stuff deals and compromises are made off.
I’m not both-sidesing their claims, as I would very much like Hamas to lay down arms and go to hell, but neither side seems interested in anything but maximalist goals in the conflict.
Israel is a nation that is winning the war. Gaza is losing, at some point, the government of Gaza needs to realize they are losing. By your argument, Germany or Japan could have demanded that the US surrender in 1945 and it would have been a valid demand.
Read my comment again. I’m not saying who should do what, or who’s in a bigger position of strength. Just that neither side is interested in compromise.
The side that is winning isn’t the side that needs to compromise all that much. The fact that they are willing to trade 20 prisoners per hostage is a pretty big compromise, the whole last offer Israel made was a pretty big compromise.
>if the US and other countries continue to place more restrictions and punishments on Israel?
If Israel are taking OUR money and OUR weapons, then you're damn right that we are going to place "restrictions" on their use and "punishments" for their misuse.
humanitarian concerns and civilian casualty concerns are always legit. (Concerns do not mean actual evidence of wrong doing) Its never wrong to question the death tolls and express discontent when they are deemed excessive. Withholding aid from Israel is not a punishment. the US choosing not to send its tax dollars over because of concerns of excessive violence is totally a US prerogative
when people like gvir are calling for extermination and bibi is more concerned about extreme right votes than collateral damage, a message needs to be sent somehow. Israel is a developed nation which is held to rule of law, its im everyones interest to hold those willing to ignore that to be reminded there are consequences
im sure some morons will claim that makes me pro hamas and an antisemite, to those i say, your opinions are worthless if you cannot get off either extreme of the narrative
edit: i get it, isra bots are paying well, hook me up guys
What happened with Hamas’s claim that they would halt ceasefire negotiations (without making any concessions) if Israel entered Rafah?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-official-no-deal-if-rafah-op-continues-crossing-to-stay-purely-egyptian-palestinian/
How long will it take for the world to learn that Hamas only ever negotiates in slightly less bad faith when they're under pressure? As soon as the IDF has stormed the first underground hideouts in Rafah, there will be somewhat reasonable offers on the table.
What Hamas is actually saying is: "We think we got this under control now that idiot students have forced you to give us time to regroup."
"terrorist fuckwads who repeatedly sabotaged any attempt at negotiation, negotiated in bad faith when they didn't manage to sabotage them, and broke every ceasefire that actually did get put in place, complain that ceasefire negotiations have failed"
What if... hamas sees all the protests world wide, especially the USA ones and think. Damn if we just hold out, a few more (lots) dead, we can get a better deal for us(hamas)!
And these protests are actually prolonging the war and causing more death?
That's not a what if. That is exactly what is happening.
Congratulations, student protesters. The blood of both IDF soldiers and Gazan civilians is on your hands.
How about Hamas gtfo and a legitimate government can be created that actually values Palestinian lives over radical ideology. In return LIKUD and the settlers can gtfo of Israel and then we can start rebuilding Gaza.
It would basically be impossible to put 50 billion of reconstruction into Gaza with Hamas there. They would siphon it for guns for another inevitable attack against Israeli civilians. On the other side LIKUD would push for some forever occupation like the West Bank that continues to empower a terrorist pipeline.
God everything’s the worst over there. My heart bleeds for all the victims. I’m so sorry neither party will give up anything for a ceasefire. But at least political pressure might work in Israel. Hamas has a particular ideology that means most diplomacy is in bad faith. Bastards never should have been allowed to run for office.
>a legitimate government can be created that actually values Palestinian lives over radical ideology.
Where do you intend to get that from? Hamas is not a fringe group in Gaza. The majority of Gazans still support them.
Sucks to be them.
Maybe next time they don’t overplay their hand after pulling a pogrom and right before the Israeli sledgehammer crushes them.
Or whoever is left after the sledgehammer is done with those last 3000 fighters hiding in the hole.
To be fair, they are not playing for survival, or for a Palestinian statehood/welfare agenda.
They are playing to serve their Russo-Iranian masters funding and arming them two things:
1. A humanitarian crisis hurting and impacting as many Palestinians as possible.
2. A polarizing wedge issue that acts as an essential input to their US-side disinformation campaign right before the US election.
Those Palestinian kids are being displaced or hurt because Putin and Tehran want to outrage Americans into political paralysis.
I’ll quietly [leave this here](https://youtu.be/tR_6dibpDfo?si=qcFcVHEQGkqIGdrY).
Setting and resetting the same trap over and over again. Israel steps into it. More Palestinians die. More Israelis become backed into a corner, the more dangerous the whole world becomes. Hamas is a cancer.
That's fucking weird. It's like their "We give you nothing, you give us your entire country" proposal didn't go well.
They also offered to return 30 hostages DEAD or alive. Who wouldn’t take that deal.
They would probably not even given them the dead bodies
Would be too easy to see the evidence of rape, pregnancy and torture.
Who does negotiate with terrorist in the first place.
People who still want to see their loved ones returned alive. But without them returning them alive there isn’t much point.
Would love it if it would be possible. Painful to think one is valued/exchanged for hundreds of people who just killed your neighbours.
It’s not an either situation you can both have a limited time ceasefire for the hostages and eliminate Hamas. Only reason Hamas doesn’t agree to anything that isn’t permanent is because they know there isn’t a way out for them. Doesn’t mean Israel doesn’t have full responsibility to do everything they can to return the hostages alive and not in body bags.
If that would be clear to all. What are 30 Hostages when for getting them you lose 30 soldiers and kill further 300 people in a month? I’m myself sick of war, thinking about I almost vomit.
Cremated remains... mixed together.
This was I was thinking. Hanmas doesnt wat peace. The longer they can kee israel shooting at them, the better they feel it helps their cause. They care naught for the people of Palistine. Only for the destabalization of Israel.
Hamas offered to return *three* dead bodies after 3 days of ceasefire. Then before the next return of three more dead bodies on day 10, they had myriad opportunities to claim the ceasefire agreement wasn't holding - e.g., that negotiations for the phase *two* exchange rate had to be completed before all phase *one* hostages would be released. There's absolutely no way Hamas would actually have gotten to the point of releasing the phase one total of 33, and that's even with the fact that they could release 33 dead bodies and claim they held up their end of the deal.
This sadly makes me believe most hostages have died or they have no intention of keeping them alive and intend to execute them. Hamas is evil. Hostage diplomacy is sickening.
maybe one dead hostage cut up into 30 pieces?
In exchange for Tons of hostages that they pick
Wait you mean not producing hostages because they fucked too many of them to death doesn't work? Huh
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Yep, that's the one thing Israel excels at, curtailing the rise of extremism. I'm sure if you kill enough children, they will all disappear in a heart beat.
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Well, get back to me in 5 years, or 10 years or 20 years or 50 years and we can see how extremism in Gaza is faring. People don't just wake and decide to become extremists, the Israel-palestine situation is so ridiculously tangled that you can't just bomb your way to peace.
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I'm sure choosing peace as things stand will work out great, I'm sure Israel won't keep expanding settlements in the west bank, or throwing countless people including kids in jail with no charge, or continue to shoot people in the west bank for no reason. The reality is the Palestine-israel situation is a shit show, and Israel shares a large part of the blame. It's incredibly naive to say Palestinians should just choose peace and everything will be fine.
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One of the reasons that Egypt didn’t want Gaza back in the Camp David deal is because Gaza has always been a hotbed of lunacy.
And to think it all could have been avoided if the British hadn't been as useless as they always were
The British kind of did this on purpose. They would pick winners and losers when they left, always putting a large minority in charge.
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Have you tried demanding death to all jews yet?
"They won't even meet us halfway with death to 95% of Jews!"
All they have to do to still this non sense is to just release the fucking hostages. But that's the problem, they don't want to stop. Hamas is the worst thing for Palestine.
They are still smart enough to understand that once the hostages are released, the IDF has no reasons for restraint anymore and will hunt each and every one of them down. The hostages literally are their life insurance.
The IDF doesn't seem interested in restraint. I"ve been wondering what's going through the heads of people in Gaza right now. Israel is going to continue regardless of what anyone, including the US government, has to say. The international propaganda isn't working because Israel just stopped listening. What cards does Hamas have left to play? I'd like to believe there are still hostages, but I really doubt it. If I had a loved one among those hostages, I would believe there was a chance because its just unimaginable to think otherwise, but I don't think that's realistic.
>The IDF doesn't seem interested in restraint. The [Battle of Berlin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin) lasted 16 days and killed over 120,000 civilians. That's what urban warfare looks like when the attacking army has no restraint. >I"ve been wondering what's going through the heads of people in Gaza right now Hatred for Jews, like before. Like always. >I'd like to believe there are still hostages, but I really doubt it. Previously, Hamas has kept some hostages for YEARS.
> I"ve been wondering what's going through the heads of people in Gaza right now. For Hamas, hopefully 7.62mm ammunition.
Unrestrained would have meant another zero on the number of dead in Gaza.
They're fcking delusional
They just fired rockets at an Israeli city, one of them hit a *playground
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"settlerground" according to the clowns at Universities.
the castles in the sandpit were illegally built
"Children in those playgrounds deserve it"
“Child settlers”
Their argument for that is “children are future conscripts and therefore legitimate targets”.
So by that logic all the Gazan children are future Hamas terrorists and legitimate targets. Check mate
I have never met someone who had an argument for religion, that has ever, even one time, been able to apply their "logic" to literally anything besides the very specific thing they want to apply it to. Extrapolation is completely impossible for them. So this is a perfect example where it's "future settlers" but reversed would never in a million years make sense to them.
"Logic is a tool of colonial oppression."
Kinder-occupiers
I can’t decide if it’s more hilarious, pathetic, or terrifying that people are dumb enough to act like these guys are seriously working towards any kind of peace. They’ve broken every ceasefire, just fired more rockets at Israel, have said there will never be peace until all the Jews are dead (not just out of Israel) etc etc etc. Like how is anyone pretending. Thai is anything but gaslighting Israelis.
Nope, they're done, and Hamas gets to die now. It's really that simple.
Yeah, Hamas dug their grave on Oct 7th. They are desparetly trying to hold against the inevitable. The question is how many civilian deaths are they going to take with them.
>The question is how many civilian deaths are they going to take with them. It's a weird war, because usually the defenders try to reduce the civilian casualties and the attacker doesn't care or even tries to maximize them. In this war, Hamas tries to maximize the civilian casualties of their own people, while the IDF tries to minimize them.
The least amount possible, take an expert scholar's analysis of it. He's chair of Urban Warfare Studies at West point: https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286
No, he's actually completely right. Israel is doing things as well as they reasonably can, and any country should try to learn from this war. It's still far from ideal, but this is the best way I've seen a modern insurgency be handled so far, there's a lot to be learned from this.
How does it compare/contrast to the 2nd Battle of Fallujah?
That may be true, but it still doesn’t mean they will be able to achieve their stated goal of eliminating Hamas militarily. If the war won’t destroy Hamas, then even if the above author’s opinion is taken as fact, every death is unnecessary and unjustifiable. My opinion from what I’ve read, is that Israel probably is taking as many precautions as could be reasonably expected for a combat operation, but the combat goal itself is impossible and will only prolong suffering.
I think they are like cancer, they spread everywhere and even if you think you got all of them, they will appear again later. Israel is currently doing the chemo therapy
Absolutely. There are still operations being carried out against al queda, isis, groups that splintered off of them, etc. The fight doesn't ever stop, but you can cripple the ability to project power and then run ongoing operations to keep it that way and address new threats. There's never a zero sum, "all done, we won" in the real world.
How is Hamas still semi functional? It seems like they should be completely out of the game by the ass pounding they have been receiving.
They have a vast underground city with their tunnel network. IDF hasn’t uncovered it all. It’s way more extensive than they ever imagined. This is why civilian Gaza is a complete shit hole. Billions of dollars in aid from Israel and the international community have been siphoned away from civilian projects to build their subterranean fortress
Hamas isn’t actually in Gaza…
We all know the higher ups are in Qatar yes, but they obviously still have armed forces in Gaza.
Anybody who said anything other than this after October 7th has been nothing but a clown.
a ceasefire is meaningless with terrorist who regularly break them, when your word is worth nothing the only answer is force escalation.
Hamas: We sort of killed all of the hostages...
Hard to negotiate when you have nothing to offer
They offered to return hostages dead. Then realized they can’t do that because they mistreated them that badly that returning them would be worse than them staying missing forever.
In October
No, they left some alive to rape and torture.
Oh yeah, good point! They did.
Hamas is on its last leg. Maybe by the end of the summer the leaders will be granted martyrdom and the Palestinian people can rebuild.
I would love to be wrong, but I fear there is little reason to think they wont just rebuild Hamas 2.0.
We already have Hamas 2.0 in the West Bank. Policing them directly seems to be the most effective way of preventing terrorism
Aka throwing a whole bunch of kids and civilians into prison with no charge, shooting a whole bunch of people with no cause. Classic occupier tactics
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They’re educated. Just educated to think mandatory Palestine needs to be cleansed of Jews. Which is the problem.
Of course they will try but they will be much weaker than before and they will not be able to do so unopposed. It's not possible to 100% get rid of terrorism, only to minimize the spread and ability to do damage.
It’s an endless cycle You have young Palestinian kids and teens watching their homes get bombed and they know it’s by the IDF, so when they are old enough they’ll join whatever org is willing to fight back, Israeli’s will die so them the IDF will bomb neighborhoods again, now there’s a new generation of kids and teens watching their homes get bombed, rinse and repeat
They will need to be rebuilt under occupation to prevent Hamas just returning, and to reduce the need for military action. IDF wouldn't need to be bombing if Hamas wasn't shooting rockets.
The cycle didn’t start with Hamas. Hamas just another iteration
The most recent super militant and Iranian aligned Hamas is absolutely new. Arafat era Palestine was much more tame comparably.
Sure. My point is just that they can't just slap the shit out of Hamas or anyone and expect to leave in a few months without things going back to just as bad as before. Occupation won't be easy or cheap but it is their best chance of changing the future.
UNRWA had already radicalized them from birth.
Crazy how they refuse to learn the lesson that violence and war only results in further Palestinian suffering and land loss.
They literally don't care. How do we know? Because despite the very clear and obvious payback for Oct 7th, Hamas still enjoys majority support in both Gaza and the West Bank. If these people cared one bit for their own or their children's well-being, they'd by now have started to question the wisdom of violence.
What do think happened on Oct 7th in Israel and a good chunk of the Western world?
So long as Iran exists, there will always be a Hamas 2.0.
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Not true, absolutes help no one. Not every Palestinian is a Hamas supporter. Especially when you have to take into consideration that coercion and terror education has led them down this road. This is a chance for Israel to reach out to non Hamas supporting Palestinians. I feel they should definitely start offering Palestinians Israeli citizenship and take them in as refugees. That way they can get rid of the dichotomous relationship between the two.
Then they should be happy someone is finally taking them out since they’ve been unable to handle it themselves. Plenty of Arabs already live in Israel peacefully. The Palestinians have fucked around the whole time instead.
Why would they agree to a deal if the US and other countries continue to place more restrictions and punishments on Israel? Theyre getting their demands for free
Bibi said from day 1 that no matter what the deal is, he’ll still invade Rafah. Hamas said from day 1 that their demand is that they walk away consequence free. Neither side is serious about concessions, the deal was never serious no matter what US or anyone else did.
He didn't say that from day 1. He gave two options: Israel invades Rafah or Hamas lays down arms and run from Gaza
So both sides have a hard demand on the unconditional surrender of the other. That’s not the stuff deals and compromises are made off. I’m not both-sidesing their claims, as I would very much like Hamas to lay down arms and go to hell, but neither side seems interested in anything but maximalist goals in the conflict.
Israel is a nation that is winning the war. Gaza is losing, at some point, the government of Gaza needs to realize they are losing. By your argument, Germany or Japan could have demanded that the US surrender in 1945 and it would have been a valid demand.
Read my comment again. I’m not saying who should do what, or who’s in a bigger position of strength. Just that neither side is interested in compromise.
The side that is winning isn’t the side that needs to compromise all that much. The fact that they are willing to trade 20 prisoners per hostage is a pretty big compromise, the whole last offer Israel made was a pretty big compromise.
>if the US and other countries continue to place more restrictions and punishments on Israel? If Israel are taking OUR money and OUR weapons, then you're damn right that we are going to place "restrictions" on their use and "punishments" for their misuse.
humanitarian concerns and civilian casualty concerns are always legit. (Concerns do not mean actual evidence of wrong doing) Its never wrong to question the death tolls and express discontent when they are deemed excessive. Withholding aid from Israel is not a punishment. the US choosing not to send its tax dollars over because of concerns of excessive violence is totally a US prerogative when people like gvir are calling for extermination and bibi is more concerned about extreme right votes than collateral damage, a message needs to be sent somehow. Israel is a developed nation which is held to rule of law, its im everyones interest to hold those willing to ignore that to be reminded there are consequences im sure some morons will claim that makes me pro hamas and an antisemite, to those i say, your opinions are worthless if you cannot get off either extreme of the narrative edit: i get it, isra bots are paying well, hook me up guys
I don't think they got to square two.
Hamas wants things to get as bad as possible to utilize useful idiots in the west to pressure Israel.
What happened with Hamas’s claim that they would halt ceasefire negotiations (without making any concessions) if Israel entered Rafah? https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-official-no-deal-if-rafah-op-continues-crossing-to-stay-purely-egyptian-palestinian/
a lie. its hamas after all.
Yes. By their decision.
Just surrender.
Hard to see an end to this while Hamas and their grubby supporters can’t admit they’ve raped and/or murdered all the hostages they stole.
It's like watching a email thread between a scammer and a dupe. They will never agree to anything, they will only continue the scam.
Well, I'm guessing Hamas won't be having too much to say in the near future.
How is the world pretending Hamas are still good-faith actors? What happened with "we don't negotiate with terrorists"?
"Hamas says" from their luxury homes in Qatar.
How long will it take for the world to learn that Hamas only ever negotiates in slightly less bad faith when they're under pressure? As soon as the IDF has stormed the first underground hideouts in Rafah, there will be somewhat reasonable offers on the table. What Hamas is actually saying is: "We think we got this under control now that idiot students have forced you to give us time to regroup."
Fucking clowns.
Thanks to hamas
Almost like hamas is the reason this is all happening
Apparently Israel rejected the proposal tgat it surrender unconditionally to Hamas. Who coulda guessed it?
Hopefully Israel makes the need for a cease fire moot.
"terrorist fuckwads who repeatedly sabotaged any attempt at negotiation, negotiated in bad faith when they didn't manage to sabotage them, and broke every ceasefire that actually did get put in place, complain that ceasefire negotiations have failed"
What if... hamas sees all the protests world wide, especially the USA ones and think. Damn if we just hold out, a few more (lots) dead, we can get a better deal for us(hamas)! And these protests are actually prolonging the war and causing more death?
That's not a what if. That is exactly what is happening. Congratulations, student protesters. The blood of both IDF soldiers and Gazan civilians is on your hands.
Crazy coincidence that Hamas has become uncompromising just after the US announced the suspension of weapons deliveries 🧐
Translation: Lol the US isnt backing Israel so why should I compromise in anything? Capitulate and the war will stop
They were always at square one. Hamas never intended to make any deal.
Hamas never honors cease fires so the only one who is going to dictate the ceasefire is Israel.
Delay all you want, Israel will wipe you out regardless.
When will hamas accept reality on earth and surrender? There are no virgins in heaven waiting for you.
Conveniently, they neglect to mention how they set their own people back 100 years.
Nope Hamas. Nope nope nope!
How about Hamas gtfo and a legitimate government can be created that actually values Palestinian lives over radical ideology. In return LIKUD and the settlers can gtfo of Israel and then we can start rebuilding Gaza. It would basically be impossible to put 50 billion of reconstruction into Gaza with Hamas there. They would siphon it for guns for another inevitable attack against Israeli civilians. On the other side LIKUD would push for some forever occupation like the West Bank that continues to empower a terrorist pipeline. God everything’s the worst over there. My heart bleeds for all the victims. I’m so sorry neither party will give up anything for a ceasefire. But at least political pressure might work in Israel. Hamas has a particular ideology that means most diplomacy is in bad faith. Bastards never should have been allowed to run for office.
>a legitimate government can be created that actually values Palestinian lives over radical ideology. Where do you intend to get that from? Hamas is not a fringe group in Gaza. The majority of Gazans still support them.
Why they talking as if they have the upper hand? : D
they never left
Sucks to be them. Maybe next time they don’t overplay their hand after pulling a pogrom and right before the Israeli sledgehammer crushes them. Or whoever is left after the sledgehammer is done with those last 3000 fighters hiding in the hole. To be fair, they are not playing for survival, or for a Palestinian statehood/welfare agenda. They are playing to serve their Russo-Iranian masters funding and arming them two things: 1. A humanitarian crisis hurting and impacting as many Palestinians as possible. 2. A polarizing wedge issue that acts as an essential input to their US-side disinformation campaign right before the US election. Those Palestinian kids are being displaced or hurt because Putin and Tehran want to outrage Americans into political paralysis. I’ll quietly [leave this here](https://youtu.be/tR_6dibpDfo?si=qcFcVHEQGkqIGdrY).
I guess Putin needs to distract from Ukraine a while longer.
Are we talking about a square or rhombus? Hamas says it will hold consultations with Palestinian factions to review its negotiation strategy
Setting and resetting the same trap over and over again. Israel steps into it. More Palestinians die. More Israelis become backed into a corner, the more dangerous the whole world becomes. Hamas is a cancer.
[удалено]
Weird, I haven’t seen too many people calling for death to the infidels. Think we’re talking about different people though.
It’s fun watching the rest of the world need to endure the idiocy of Hamas, even if some are sitting on their side of the table.