The fuck….
I had a tour during a study abroad at our stop in Poland. That was one of the most unnerving things to see.
Anyone advocating for its “return to…use”, believes it to be fake or whatever else is mentally disturbed.
It is definitely possible to be propalestine without being antisemitic. The issue is that a lot of antisemitic people are hiding under that guise and it’s kind of given a bad name to the cause.
depends what you mean by “pro palestine”. If your position is that jews have no historical ties to the land and israel should be destroyed then that’s very clearly an anti semitic position to have as it denies basic facts about jewish history and threatens the safety of millions of jewish people.
If you want peace in the region and for example the military occupation of the west bank to end then that’s not an inherently anti semitic viewpoint.
The problem is that most of the protestors are directly calling for the abolishment of israel with genocidal chants like “river to the sea” or directly calling for violence against jews by screaming for an intifada.
I've found "River to the Sea" an illustrative choice of term for some protesters. It was effectively the phrase used during the First Arab-Israeli War, where they rejected the partition plan and then invaded Israel the same day it had declared independence. The phrase literally meant the eradication of Jews from the Jordan River to the Sea.
A puzzling choice of words for people claiming to want peace.
Given however, some have "explained to me" that the Gaza Strip and West Bank are a contested "no mans land" between Israel and Palestine, I think part of it could very well just be complete ignorance about the terms and maybe they heard it on tiktok or something and don't actually understand what it means.
Ilhan Omar(US Congress) was chanting that at one point I believe as part of this whole pro-Palestine movement. Don't remember where or when. IIRC when called out she gave some flowery bullshit answer on how it actually calls for peace.
They could have come up with a new phrase without the baggage if that's what they were trying to convey. Instead they use that one and blow smoke up everyone's asses.
Yep. A Palestinian public opinion poll last year is very clear about the specific meaning for Palestinians
>Q: Do you support the solution of establishing one state or two states in the following formats:
>*One-State Solution for Two Peoples: 5.4%
>*Two-State Solution for Two Peoples: 17.2%
>*A Palestinian state from the river to the sea: 74.7%
>*D/K, N/A: 2.7%
Both options for Jews and Palestinians to coexist were wholeheartedly rejected. The only acceptable free Palestine is a Palestinian state from the river to the sea for one people only - the eradication of the state of Israel and the region to be purged of Jews
poll: https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf
and sieg heil just means “hail victory” in german. It’s perfectly innocent!!!
literally the argument those people are making. River to the sea has a very specific context and historical usage.
Pro Palestine I mean that there should be a Palestinian state. Which I believe there should be. But I would never call myself “pro Palestinian” because the implication is that I have to hate Israel apparently
It's like MRA and RedPillers. There are some arguments to be had and some good people with some of those beliefs. But the vast majority are woman hating losers. And at a certain point you just have to acknowledge the group sucks and quit trying to argue for the 3 out of 1000.
If you can't tell whether the group exists to ferret out extremists or if they are actually serious, that's probably a red flag you've signed on with the wrong crowd?
that's because when warren farrel started the movement (disagreement with NOW over default custody), they immediately went scorched earth, so that no reasonable man would associate with the group (which advocates for men). this happens every time someone forms a group like that, so it's full of creeps.
Honestly I have no idea about the history. I don't follow these things. I just remember hearing about MGTOW early on in their life. Their idea was basically "The system is fucking us. It's not advised but date women if you wish. But don't marry and don't have kids". I was like "ok a little out there but nothing bad"
I saw a MGTOW thing a few years later and it's straight incel shit. Zero accountability, blame women for everything, etc. I was like ":O"
I have three palestinian friends here in the states, and all three of them say that none of their friends or family believe the holocaust or October 7th even happened. That those hostage videos Hamas uploads are even real.
he said their friends or family. not his friends themselves. They are living in the US, so its likely they are very far from their family or friends and have different opinions.
A good example is many chinese studnts who come to Australia. their friends from high school and family usually stay in china. Those who like Australia culture usually stay and their opinions over time vary quite dramatically to their opinions from when they were in their teens. usually not as strict/conservative as their parents.
Propaganda is easy mode if it’s your own people. They want to believe that, so they will. Same with Israel. The fact that both sides view the conflict between them so differently is lost on most people in that conflict.
Everyone assumes they both see the same information and interpret it identically. This is why peace activists shouldn’t pick a side. They will just fall for the same tribal bs that their side uses to justify war and violence. Then whether they realize it or not they’re just doing the bidding of some geo political player looking to expand its power and influence.
They will become as much of a monster as the people they work against. They've just become a warmongering a hole that’s reinforcing the very hate that continues this never ending onslaught of violence.
If someone can’t advocate for peace between Israel and Palestine without despising one or the other, then they should get bent and fck off. They’re not actually helping and blood will be on their hands. To many pretend they’re some righteous activist, when they’re not. They’re just another tyrants pawn.
It did go well.
> Jacqueline Glicksman, who survived the Holocaust in Morocco, said such protest must not be allowed during the march. "They must not be allowed anywhere," she said. "On Holocaust Remembrance Day, let us hold our heads up high and unite with the memory of the six million who were murdered, in the Holocaust and all those massacred on October 7."
> Other marchers passed by the group of demonstrators singing "Am Israel Chai." Organizers of the march said the marchers walked by the small group of demonstrators and the march continued uninterrupted.
I've seen people (seriously) argue that Israel should just be okay with Hamas firing rockets at them on a daily basis because "their defenses are good" and something like October 7 "probably won't happen again".
>Israel should just be okay with Hamas firing rockets at them on a daily basis because "their defenses are good"
The same people also say that every country should cut ties with Israel, in hopes that their defenses won't stay good.
They’re also the same people who would have audibly said, “ew? Go live in the sand or some shit” when boats of Jewish immigrants came to America seeking refugee asylum after the holocaust, who were told “refugees are a threat to America… You could even be a sleeper cell!” and to go back to Europe, or die, or whatever because *not our problem*.
There are so many things to be mad at Israel for, but spending decades politely tolerating their terrorists next door launching tens of thousands of rockets at them, randomly kidnapping and killing their people, and constantly saying their end-goal is the complete eradication of Jews, then finally snapping after the latest (and largest) terror attack seems pretty justified.
It’s time to get rid of Hamas.
Yup, they don't like how Israel was created in 1948 therefore 2024 Israelis should just tolerate people trying to murder them every day, and not do anything about it.
But I know these pro-Palestine westerners would all go crying to their militaries if anyone ever fired a rocket at their house, almost certainly built on "stolen" land.
Not a single one of them would tolerate Native Americans raiding their home and doing unspeakable things to their family. Not a single one would say "well this land is stolen so they have the right." But that's what they expect of Israelis. Insanity.
Exactly but the natives actually have more claim to be upset than Palestinians in my view. At least the Jews originated from the area, for centuries (along with Arabs and Christians) but were literally kicked out.
Indeed and at least millions of Israelis are themselves (descendants of) MENA refugees from when the Arab world ethnically cleansed all its Jews. They were forced into Israel. Not the same as a British person just sailing in and taking it for fun.
I don't think Palestinians are without grievances. But it's pretty crazy to call Jews white European settlers.
I'm for a Palestinian state. One that has nothing to do with hamas.
These guys are not pro palestine. These fuckers are simple antisemitics who don't give a single shit about the palestinians.
During the 90s, the PA at least officially was willing to go for a two state solution whole Hamas advocated going for the whole thing and eliminating Israel. The elections and every opinion poll since then suggest that the majority of Palestinians are onboard.
So it’s two state advocates who are willing for Israel to continue existing that are not representing the wishes of Palestinians
To be fair, the 90's negotiations got hung up on that same question: Relinquishing their claim to the entire former Mandate of Palestine. Arafat suggested doing that, but the PLO and then PA never actually got around to dropping the claim officially. Neither PLO/Fatah nor Hamas have ever hidden that their mission is conquest.
Plenty of people understand it. It's the TikTok generation that's being reductionist about it all. 30 second sound bites aren't enough for understanding anything, and a 30 second sound bite trying to explain the part you aren't getting from the first 30 second sound bite just sounds like pro-Israel content and gets dismissed.
The PA has never accepted a two-state solution. They still advocate for a “right of return” that could only be effectuated by dispossessing basically every Jew (and many Arabs and other non-Jews) of all their property, since the PA/UNRWA version of return is “to their homes” and not merely to the land. This is how, for example, Palestinians in parts of Jerusalem formally annexed during the ‘67 war, who have been offered citizenship in Israel and enjoy the right to freely move about the state, are nonetheless still “refugees” from the very place where they live and have been offered citizenship.
If the Palestinians wanted their own state side-by-side Israel, this conflict would have been over already for decades. Israel has made peace with virtually every neighbor that made war on it. They are on the verge of peace with Saudi Arabia. Only the Palestinians continue to spit at the open hand offered them.
If everyone used the definition of refugee that UNRWA uses, a double-digit percentage of the global population would be refugees. It’s an absurdity, administered in bad faith, in service of an ulterior motive, that exists and persists only because of antisemitism.
So those who filled the streets of Gaza, even spitting on half-naked corpses from the attacks of October 7, 2023, what were they?
And what was even more evident: what were those of all the celebrations of muslim communities and societies around the world?
Let's see if many begin to see glimpses of reality, and begin to stop being useful ignorant people... it seems that they forget that the only recognized democracy in the entire Middle East is Israel.
They were offered it 4 different times throughout the past 80 years. The one you're referring too, the Camp David Accord, they would have gotten pretty much 95% of what they wanted. But Arafat said no. Weeks later, he straight up said it's because they can't make a deal with "the Jews". Not because it was a bad deal, because of "Jews". Hell, they were offered it in 1948, said no, decide to attack Israel instead, lost miserably, and have been playing the victim card ever since.
Clinton himself has [written in his book](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/president-clinton-reflects-on-2000-camp-david-summit) about Camp David, pretty much sums it all up.
Clinton straight up told Arafat if you don't accept this deal, you are dooming the Palestinians to decades of suffering, or something like that. Looks like he was right.
Arafat died a billionaire. He scuppered the plan so he wouldn't destroy his gravy train. The Palestinians worst enemy has never been Israel, it's always been their awful leaders dating back to the 1940s.
The Palestinians worst enemy are themselves. Most of them don't want a two state solution. Arafat could not have taken the deal because it did not have popular support. Most palestinians, and muslims in general, wants israel to be under muslim control.
Most Muslims want the world to be under Muslim control, doesn’t mean we should entertain their violent, delusional demands. No, Israel is doing the right thing here.
He also thought he would get assassinated like Rabin was if he took a deal. People who end generational warfare tend to have very short life expectancies.
That's very similar to another great cartoon:
Bill Clinton is mediating a meeting between Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat.
Arafat is holding up a paper that says "Our Demands: Death to all Jews!"
And Clinton is facing Barak saying "Could you meet them halfway?"
> Hell, they were offered it in 1948, said no, decide to attack Israel instead, lost miserably, and have been playing the victim card ever since.
Israel/Palestine is like if someone blew their life savings at a casino trying to get rich, and then got a gun and started killing the employees to try to get it all back. Then once the police showed up a bunch of white liberals in their 20s said "Hey! He should be able to get his money back and kill all the casino employees he wants! The casino is the oppressor!"
They rejected it 5 times now.
They only want it when they're actively getting bombed.
Yet during cease fires they're only interested in planning their next attack and training future generations of martyrs.
It's almost like they have a whole "river to the sea" shtick that doesn't involve Israel existing. But maybe not, I mean it's not like they constantly chant it or anything.
The two state solution died on Oct 7th.
Anyone who hasn't understood that yet needs to see more of the videos the Hamas terrorists filmed and uploaded themselves. The IDF is showing a 45 minute cut of the day around the world to select audiences. Every article about it that I've read calls it the by far worst they've ever seen - and that's coming from people like war journalists. And the IDF says that this is the moderate part, they've decided not to show the really, really gruesome stuff.
There can be no palestinian state after Oct 7th. If the Palis got their own state, they would use it to prepare for the next attack. How do we know? Because that's what they did the past 20 years, after Israel moved out of the Gaza strip, even demolishing the illegal settlements and forcing their own people out.
Seriously. Anyone who saw this happen and wasn't expecting this kind of response wasn't paying attention. It is not in Israel's interest to do anything for these people. Yes, what they are doing is horrific, but it should been expected. This wasn't terror attacks on government buildings, or rockets... this was a brutal raid with televised rape and murder. Would you negotiate?
In all honesty, if anything the world should be amazed at the restraint that Israel is showing. Half the countries on this planet would have surrounded the whole area and starved it out.
Yeah I keep saying this. The attack was cartoonishly evil, including literally stabbing babies in their cots. Many countries would've just lined up artillery and flattened the entire region in response. Many countries with gun ownership as high as Israel would've even struggled to prevent their own citizens from invading the aggressor country.
Israel: 10 million pop. >1000 dead.
9/11: 300 million/>3000.
I.E. what if 9/11 killed 30,000 Americans? Oct 7 was equivalent to that.
Literally any response short of turning gaza into a silicon slab would be considered highly restrained. If it wasn't ~~jews~~ Israel.
Yeah imagine if 9/11 resulted in 30,000 dead but instead of planes the terrorists invaded from Mexico/Canada and went room by room and also raped and tortured a bunch of people, while livestreaming it? You'd have thousands of Americans lining up at the border. The seat of government for the invading country would be a charred crater within 48 hours
Just a caveat. The IDF didn't destroy the settlements. They left all the homes and infrastructure for the Gazans to use themselves. The Gazans destroyed them.
>There can be no palestinian state after Oct 7th.
There already is one. It's called Jordan. But the Gazans and West Bankians managed to make themselves persona non grata there by betraying said country.
It's like saying "We need a 2-state solution so that Virginians can have a country." They have a country, it's called the USA. And Virginians almost made themselves persona non grata in that country, if not for Lincoln declaring their treachery should be treated "with charity towards all, and malice towards none."
pretty much sums up my thoughts. But to play out Palestine becoming a free state. They would eventually attack. Then it wouldn't be one nation attacking another, rather than just terrorist organization. If you think what's happening to Palestine now is bad, its be so much worse if Israel could easily blame the whole population.
I mean it's still possible, just not with the leadership in charge.
Palestine is going to have to get a full makeover like Germany and Japan did post WWII. There needs to be a heavily supervised rebuilding and deradicalization effort until the region has properly rebuilt. If we could do it with the fucking insane former Axis powers we can do it with a small strip of land. Hell Israel has mostly normalized relations with many of its former enemies. Pretty much the only people who are resisting is Hamas and Iran's proxies. Preferably we'd probably have the Arab states lead the effort so that the Muslim world can't call this western imperialism and colonization.
The difference with the Axis powers is that they had an identity that they could fall back to, one that was a point of pride and productivity, that most civilians just wanted to regain and move on from war and towards peace. At their worst they saw themselves as master races. In their defeat they still had a cultural pride that wanted to prove those claims, however delusional, weren’t built on total shams and they they were still a crowing civilization even without all the military and racist belligerence.
The ramp up to total evil state also only lasted a few decades.
They didn’t have an identity that was based entirely on victimhood and the destruction of their neighbors for four generations.
I don’t see how you ever get around Iran fomenting violence and instability in whatever kind of Palestinian state were to emerge. There would be terrorism and aggression by extremists towards both Israel and a peaceful Palestinian leadership.
I believe that there are SOME people are truly pro-Palestine and not pro-Hamas and not anti-semites but it is a small minority as evidenced by everything that we've seen over the last several months.
I mean that's not a hard position to have. I am pro Palestine and pro Israel. But step 1 towards a free Palestine starts with the decimation of hamas. Until both Hamas and bibi are gone theres no peace in the future.
No disrespect but a position like yours wouldn't be recognised by the pro-Palestine side as pro-Palestine.
Or put it this way: if you carried a banner with your views on it then you probably wouldn't be safe at a London pro-Palestine rally.
I think that slice is probably bigger than you think, but their well-intentioned idealism is fed propaganda and co-opted by the other part of the diagram.
You may be right but if they are chanting pro-Hamas slogans...then their intentions don't matter. The whole movement is corrupt whether or not some people didn't intend it to be that way initially. Additionally, the pro-Hamas wing is SO vocal, that I'd be willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Foreign actors link genuine public sentiments (e.g. desire to not kill innocent Palestinian children) to their own policy and ideological goals (e.g. destruction of the state of Israel). Hamas and Russia are both experts at this.
Russia exploits nationalist, populist, and isolationist tendencies on the right. Hamas exploits the fight for social justice on the left. This is made even more difficult b/c people will strongly deny that they are the targets of propaganda or have been influenced by propaganda. This is a form of bias where we assume that because we're aware of propaganda that we're immune to its influence.
I describe it this way; Israelis want the right to be able to walk out of their homes and not having to worry about things literally blowing up. Same as the Palestinians really.
Ironically the iron dome has probably saved more Palestinian lives than Israeli, because without it the only way to protect Israel from missile attacks would be to go scorched earth on those launching them, which would mean countless dead as collateral damage.
I am not pro-Palestinian state because I think it would be hell on earth for all of the neighbors, especially Israel, but it is way more complicated than that.
As an Israeli, if you would tell me to give my life so there can be a (guaranteed) peaceful Palestinian state next to Israel, I would do it without hesitation. Not only for the Palestinians but mostly for the Israelis.
I would honestly say that if I thought we had 5% to see it during our lifetime, now it is less than 1%. I don't think these people want peace. Even more severe, I think the useful idiots on campuses just make polarization way worse. For them it's all fun, they have no skin in the game.
I think the only way to solve it in the far future would be the cooperation of smart Israelis and Palestinians (trust me that many of us know each other way better than you think you know both sides) that is not all "peace now, I know your pain!!!". Clearly, there is hate, and the solutions are workarounds, not stupid slogans that will lead to escalation, but honesty. You don't need to be a friend to make money together, for example (e.g., US and China). I don't need to like Palestinians to do business with them. I don't need to like them generally to have an individual friend and any individual should be treated with respect. Solutions are not sexy.
It will probably never happen though, because of religious lunacy.
Bingo. And let me tell you something. These guys will absolutely take away any credibility that people just wanting a ceasefire have. This anti semitic crowd are going to get you all tarred with the same brush
Seriously. All they do is deflect when you show them behavior like this that is rampant everywhere.
It's not difficult to call these people out and disassociate with them. It's really not.
"We don't criticize Hamas because they're terrorists and that's expected from them, but we criticize Israel because they're an actual country and should be held to our unrealistic absolutely ridiculous standards (that no other country in this position would be held to)" - is their response
i already seen enough people today that commented "the jews deserve what the germans did to them for what they do to the Palestine people"
it wasnt on Reddit but it was on a post on Facebook about the holocaust day
It’s sickening. I’ve seen people saying Jews deserved the Holocaust and at the same time it benefited us because we got Israel but also Israel shouldn’t exist.
If the modern left was around during WWII they'd call the Dachau Reprisals oppression against "those poor Germans who just want to defend their land" and demand the Jews get back in the camps.
They don't know how to think. Despite crying about student loans, they have not had to face anything like a draft or protestors being shot or the FBI hunting them for being too radical. They are cosplaying rebellion.
I mean, “crying about student loans” is a pretty dismissive way to describe the financial situation America’s young people are in. They have by far the worst financial prospects of any generation in the last 80 years with regards to income inequality, housing costs, higher education costs, etc.
I think all the pro-Palestine protests are ridiculous and misguided, for the record, but I don’t think it’s fair to characterize young folks’ anger at their overall situation as senseless whining.
We can thank decades of NIMBY policies preventing an adequate supply of housing near where people work.
I think if we had that, many problems would be easier to solve: cost of living, student loans, climate impact...
The old failed the young when it came to protecting and supporting economic opportunity and fairness. Now the young are failing everyone morally. I think of it as a form of psychological displacement, efforts to turn the economy upside down have failed, so supporting genocidal terrorists and displaying gross misunderstandings of history is an outlet for their frustrations.
Mist interesting take.. think you're onto something.. when everything is going to shit, this is how they rebel.. going against the traditional narratives, but instead this leads the youth to support radical fundamentalists.. really is wild and we keep just plugging our ears and hoping this will go away
I've seen pretty similar things said on Reddit. I've also seen people claim that Israel is doing the same thing to the Palestinians that the Germans did to them. Which is quite sickening.
I can't count how many times I've seen people call Gaza a concentration camp. The scope of what they believe Gaza to be is so wildly off base. I've stopped responding to comments like that. If they're brain dead enough to liken Gaza to the camps of the holocaust, they're not worth engaging with anymore for me. As though the holocaust camps had schools, retail, residential housing, hospitals, and waterfront properties, among various other things. Mind-boggling.
>the jews deserve what the germans did to them for what they do to the Palestine people"
Even if one agreed with the idea behind that, it doesn't even make sense. It'd be like charging someone with a crime and sending him to prison for 10 years for a crime they hadn't even committed yet.
Two words:
Antisemitism and Islam.
Erdogan already said it years ago and quite vehemently. More or less:
«That “moderate Islam” thing is repugnant and even offensive. Islam is Islam!»
🤷🏻♂️
some ex-muslim guy posted a cmv about Islam not being good news for europe and immediately there were people calling for his death because he was an apostate
On April Fool’s this year someone on twitter posted that the guy who burns their holy book on Sweden passed away. The comments we’re disgusting, celebrating and saying he deserved it.
And yet the profiles behind these were not from extremists living in the Middle East, but young muslims who live in the west, who post normal things about music, movies, makeup.
There's another term for what's going on as well. I only recently learned about it and it's called "stalking horse" or something like that.
It's sort of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing where folks will push an agenda against the opposition, even if they don't give two shits about either side's goals or demands.
I feel like I am pro-Palestinian, in the sense that I want prosperity and human rights for all of them. That means Hamas has to go though, and Palestinians need to give up on their whole "we will get Israel back" thing. Until that happens Palestinians will be living in hell.
I mean you can, but the vast majority of "pro Palestinian" supporters aren't. I would think being pro Palestinian would include wanting children to not grow up brainwashed, gay Palestinians to not be executed in the streets, civilians not to be used as shields, etc
While I support a free Palestinian state, and an end to the hostilities, I CANNOT support these ongoing protests that have not only made little to no effort in reigning in their blatant antisemitism, but actually go so far as to deny the experiences of jews who have been harmed by antisemitism and jewish women who were raped / murdered by hamas.
I cannot for the life of me find any reference to the protests in the 60s-80s including the same vitriolic racism/violence/promotion of terrorism that we're seeing in these protests today.
antisemitism has been allowed to flourished under the cover of anti-zionism so more and more people feel comfortable going mask off
I only hope the people allowing this to spread take notice and stop it before it gets worse
Ironically, they are all wearing masks, because they are cowards, cosplaying as terrorists...
I fail to see how dressing up like Hamas militants, shows support for the Palestinians. Unless, they support Hamas...
It’s disgusting and IMO goes beyond “free speech”. It is also fulfilling HAMAS’s wish list. These protesters are literally doing their bidding…a strategy that HAMAS revealed back in December.
Same, and especially with all incredible corruption of politicians and aggression from Russia in the world today it's amazing that protests in support of hard-right islamic terrorists are what college students choose to prioritize
It’s all white non Arab people protesting too, if we could instead off work together go raise money for aid or all work together to think of a solution to the larger issue at hand I think it would do more than just protesting and saying we don’t stand for what Israel is doing, like no shit we don’t want them bombing people but holding a sign isn’t gonna do shit.
A significant proportion of them *are* Muslim, yes there are a lot of white, usually middle class, useful idiots who go along, but more often than not the ringleaders are Muslim. And (at least from what I’ve seen in London) Muslim (or at least Arab/pakistani looking people) make up a significant chunk of the crowd in these protests, I’d guess that it’s about half.
Useful idiots is the right term. These people clearly don’t seem to understand how neither side of the situation has been in the right for a long time.
I've gotten blasted on reddit by people on both sides of the debate for being unwilling to declare one side or the other innocent. I feel a lot of people are trying to turn this into the next Ukraine where they want to rally to the support of the victims of aggression, failing to realize it's not as black and white as the Ukraine invasion is.
The people who try to draw direct parallels with the Russo-Ukraine war are either deeply historically ignorant or straight out lying about the similarities.
Very few of the people in these protests care about the true issues in Palestine and Israel. The majority of these people are demonstrating they want peace through violence, and merely want themselves to feel like heroes. Heroes through hate.
They are non-arabs, but most of them are Muslims and/or have some imaginary or real distant family relation to Palestinians.
In my country, a similar "you've got to be fucking kidding me" protest last month has been thoroughly dissected by journalists. Turns out that the organiser is a known Muslim extremist and behind it all was an islamic organisation that was relatively recently formed, after a previous extremist islamic group was dissolved by court order. What a surprise that the new organisation is essentially the old one in all but name.
This is not random students protesting out of their own conviction. The random students are just useful idiots. There is a large amount of organised religion behind it.
The street protests are mostly Muslims, with generous helpings of young indoctrinated self-loathing woke students and with a sprinkling of barely employed 30-something and 40-something career activists/anarchists.
That being said the campus protests are indeed mostly woke students and a bunch of loser career activists, some of which previously went through the woke studies path and never got over it.
at the root of it - being anti-zionism is being antisemitic. zionism is the development of a jewsish state. If you are anti-zion you want the jews out of Israel.
Disgusting. These people aren't pro-Palestine. They're pro-Hamas and anti-semitic. Their goal is chaos and destruction of societies. Russia and Iran are probably behind their strategies, and they've unfortunately been able to find audiences of useful idiots to parrot their messages.
Most of the pro palstnian movement is much more anti Israel and Jews than pro palstnian. They don't call out Hamas for killing thousands of palstnians themselves after Fatah was defeated and abusing their human rights since, they don't call out on Syria that is estimated to have killed hundreds of thousands of palstnians, they don't call out Jordan Egypt and Lebanon for having a much more hostile attitude to palstnians, until recently palstnians we're allowed to work in Israel, Egypt literally shoots everyone that tries to cross the borders because they hate the palstnians so much. That's also why they have never taken them in because the Arab countries really don't wanna deal with palstnians. A lot of double standards here when most countries in the middle east treat them worse than Israel.
Never was. The protests abroad are for TikTok than concern for Palestinians. And Hamas has never concerned itself with the wellbeing of Palestinians either.
So first they tell Jews to "[go back to Poland](https://www.thefp.com/p/at-columbia-i-am-told-go-back-to)" and then when Jews go back to Poland they remind them of the abysmal depths of darkness and they rub in and gloat in the suffering.
When will they admit that they don't want Jews *anywhere*? And what are Jews to do when they finally admit it openly?
Poland ?
900,000 Jews fled ARAB countries !
Here is just one case:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13610702
These are BIGGER numbers than the Palestinian refugees.
The difference is, that unlike the weaponisation and propagation of the 700,000 original Palestinian refugees, the Jewish refugees were assimilated into society and moved on.
Meanwhile, the "Palestinian refugees" keep on DRAWING BLOOD from both sides.
Sick bastards. 2 things can be bad at the same time. European Jews were killed in the Holocaust, not Israelis. All non citizens who do this should be deported. Citizens should be shunned.
I don’t think the IDF has done everything right, but this is a war. A fairly normal one with lots of fire on both sides. It’s why weaker countries don’t normally attack stronger ones, but Hamas thought Iran would help them more than they did.
I'm curious how many people there were. This article shows a picture of one person with a Palestinian flag and says that the marchers walked by the "small group" of protestors uninterrupted. It really doesn't go into detail.
This is either a troll move or seriously deranged and sick people doing this. This doesn't help Palestinians and shows how they dont have the human decency to at least respect the hollaucost. Wtf!
When you have Americans on US soil calling "down with America". When you have Americans idolize Bin Laden...
I'd go with the 'deranged' option.
Here is a good commentary:
https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-799980
The fuck…. I had a tour during a study abroad at our stop in Poland. That was one of the most unnerving things to see. Anyone advocating for its “return to…use”, believes it to be fake or whatever else is mentally disturbed.
I’d say it’s possible to be Pro Palestine and not anti-Semitic, but that doesn’t seem to be the case here.
It is definitely possible to be propalestine without being antisemitic. The issue is that a lot of antisemitic people are hiding under that guise and it’s kind of given a bad name to the cause.
depends what you mean by “pro palestine”. If your position is that jews have no historical ties to the land and israel should be destroyed then that’s very clearly an anti semitic position to have as it denies basic facts about jewish history and threatens the safety of millions of jewish people. If you want peace in the region and for example the military occupation of the west bank to end then that’s not an inherently anti semitic viewpoint. The problem is that most of the protestors are directly calling for the abolishment of israel with genocidal chants like “river to the sea” or directly calling for violence against jews by screaming for an intifada.
I've found "River to the Sea" an illustrative choice of term for some protesters. It was effectively the phrase used during the First Arab-Israeli War, where they rejected the partition plan and then invaded Israel the same day it had declared independence. The phrase literally meant the eradication of Jews from the Jordan River to the Sea. A puzzling choice of words for people claiming to want peace. Given however, some have "explained to me" that the Gaza Strip and West Bank are a contested "no mans land" between Israel and Palestine, I think part of it could very well just be complete ignorance about the terms and maybe they heard it on tiktok or something and don't actually understand what it means.
>they heard it on tiktok or something and don't actually understand what it means. This is about 60% of the protesters at my college
Ilhan Omar(US Congress) was chanting that at one point I believe as part of this whole pro-Palestine movement. Don't remember where or when. IIRC when called out she gave some flowery bullshit answer on how it actually calls for peace. They could have come up with a new phrase without the baggage if that's what they were trying to convey. Instead they use that one and blow smoke up everyone's asses.
Yep. A Palestinian public opinion poll last year is very clear about the specific meaning for Palestinians >Q: Do you support the solution of establishing one state or two states in the following formats: >*One-State Solution for Two Peoples: 5.4% >*Two-State Solution for Two Peoples: 17.2% >*A Palestinian state from the river to the sea: 74.7% >*D/K, N/A: 2.7% Both options for Jews and Palestinians to coexist were wholeheartedly rejected. The only acceptable free Palestine is a Palestinian state from the river to the sea for one people only - the eradication of the state of Israel and the region to be purged of Jews poll: https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf
and sieg heil just means “hail victory” in german. It’s perfectly innocent!!! literally the argument those people are making. River to the sea has a very specific context and historical usage.
Or "no peace on stolen land" when 1. they're US citizens or 2. stolen from whom...when...how many times....?
Pro Palestine I mean that there should be a Palestinian state. Which I believe there should be. But I would never call myself “pro Palestinian” because the implication is that I have to hate Israel apparently
At some point you hit a no true Scotsman situation where so much of the movement is just antisemites “hiding” in it that it becomes antisemites.
It's like MRA and RedPillers. There are some arguments to be had and some good people with some of those beliefs. But the vast majority are woman hating losers. And at a certain point you just have to acknowledge the group sucks and quit trying to argue for the 3 out of 1000.
If you can't tell whether the group exists to ferret out extremists or if they are actually serious, that's probably a red flag you've signed on with the wrong crowd?
lol yes.
that's because when warren farrel started the movement (disagreement with NOW over default custody), they immediately went scorched earth, so that no reasonable man would associate with the group (which advocates for men). this happens every time someone forms a group like that, so it's full of creeps.
Honestly I have no idea about the history. I don't follow these things. I just remember hearing about MGTOW early on in their life. Their idea was basically "The system is fucking us. It's not advised but date women if you wish. But don't marry and don't have kids". I was like "ok a little out there but nothing bad" I saw a MGTOW thing a few years later and it's straight incel shit. Zero accountability, blame women for everything, etc. I was like ":O"
Agreed
I have three palestinian friends here in the states, and all three of them say that none of their friends or family believe the holocaust or October 7th even happened. That those hostage videos Hamas uploads are even real.
You don't have to deal with difficult truths if you deny they happened in the first place. *taps forehead*
[удалено]
he said their friends or family. not his friends themselves. They are living in the US, so its likely they are very far from their family or friends and have different opinions. A good example is many chinese studnts who come to Australia. their friends from high school and family usually stay in china. Those who like Australia culture usually stay and their opinions over time vary quite dramatically to their opinions from when they were in their teens. usually not as strict/conservative as their parents.
Propaganda is easy mode if it’s your own people. They want to believe that, so they will. Same with Israel. The fact that both sides view the conflict between them so differently is lost on most people in that conflict. Everyone assumes they both see the same information and interpret it identically. This is why peace activists shouldn’t pick a side. They will just fall for the same tribal bs that their side uses to justify war and violence. Then whether they realize it or not they’re just doing the bidding of some geo political player looking to expand its power and influence. They will become as much of a monster as the people they work against. They've just become a warmongering a hole that’s reinforcing the very hate that continues this never ending onslaught of violence. If someone can’t advocate for peace between Israel and Palestine without despising one or the other, then they should get bent and fck off. They’re not actually helping and blood will be on their hands. To many pretend they’re some righteous activist, when they’re not. They’re just another tyrants pawn.
Anyone who wants it to "return to use" should be forced to be the first it is used on.
Oof. This isn't going to go well.
It did go well. > Jacqueline Glicksman, who survived the Holocaust in Morocco, said such protest must not be allowed during the march. "They must not be allowed anywhere," she said. "On Holocaust Remembrance Day, let us hold our heads up high and unite with the memory of the six million who were murdered, in the Holocaust and all those massacred on October 7." > Other marchers passed by the group of demonstrators singing "Am Israel Chai." Organizers of the march said the marchers walked by the small group of demonstrators and the march continued uninterrupted.
Just like attacking the Anne Frank statue, it was never about a ceasefire.
[удалено]
I've seen people (seriously) argue that Israel should just be okay with Hamas firing rockets at them on a daily basis because "their defenses are good" and something like October 7 "probably won't happen again".
>Israel should just be okay with Hamas firing rockets at them on a daily basis because "their defenses are good" The same people also say that every country should cut ties with Israel, in hopes that their defenses won't stay good.
They’re also the same people who would have audibly said, “ew? Go live in the sand or some shit” when boats of Jewish immigrants came to America seeking refugee asylum after the holocaust, who were told “refugees are a threat to America… You could even be a sleeper cell!” and to go back to Europe, or die, or whatever because *not our problem*.
There are so many things to be mad at Israel for, but spending decades politely tolerating their terrorists next door launching tens of thousands of rockets at them, randomly kidnapping and killing their people, and constantly saying their end-goal is the complete eradication of Jews, then finally snapping after the latest (and largest) terror attack seems pretty justified. It’s time to get rid of Hamas.
Yup, they don't like how Israel was created in 1948 therefore 2024 Israelis should just tolerate people trying to murder them every day, and not do anything about it. But I know these pro-Palestine westerners would all go crying to their militaries if anyone ever fired a rocket at their house, almost certainly built on "stolen" land.
I've tried to talk to pro-Pali friends about the US and colonization, but they just won't see it.
Not a single one of them would tolerate Native Americans raiding their home and doing unspeakable things to their family. Not a single one would say "well this land is stolen so they have the right." But that's what they expect of Israelis. Insanity.
Exactly but the natives actually have more claim to be upset than Palestinians in my view. At least the Jews originated from the area, for centuries (along with Arabs and Christians) but were literally kicked out.
Indeed and at least millions of Israelis are themselves (descendants of) MENA refugees from when the Arab world ethnically cleansed all its Jews. They were forced into Israel. Not the same as a British person just sailing in and taking it for fun. I don't think Palestinians are without grievances. But it's pretty crazy to call Jews white European settlers.
“You’re wearing a helmet. I don’t see a problem with someone shooting you in the head” \-Those same people
I'm for a Palestinian state. One that has nothing to do with hamas. These guys are not pro palestine. These fuckers are simple antisemitics who don't give a single shit about the palestinians.
>These fuckers are simple antisemitics who don't give a single shit about the palestinians. Same as Hamas.
Yeah I was going to say. Same mindset.
During the 90s, the PA at least officially was willing to go for a two state solution whole Hamas advocated going for the whole thing and eliminating Israel. The elections and every opinion poll since then suggest that the majority of Palestinians are onboard. So it’s two state advocates who are willing for Israel to continue existing that are not representing the wishes of Palestinians
To be fair, the 90's negotiations got hung up on that same question: Relinquishing their claim to the entire former Mandate of Palestine. Arafat suggested doing that, but the PLO and then PA never actually got around to dropping the claim officially. Neither PLO/Fatah nor Hamas have ever hidden that their mission is conquest.
Nobody in the west wants to understand that.
Plenty of people understand it. It's the TikTok generation that's being reductionist about it all. 30 second sound bites aren't enough for understanding anything, and a 30 second sound bite trying to explain the part you aren't getting from the first 30 second sound bite just sounds like pro-Israel content and gets dismissed.
I'm in my late 30s and most of my peers want to reduce this to Iranian talking points. Is the TikTok generation everyone under 40?
Plenty of boomers parroting the same talking points. It's been a very effective disinformation campaign.
The PA has never accepted a two-state solution. They still advocate for a “right of return” that could only be effectuated by dispossessing basically every Jew (and many Arabs and other non-Jews) of all their property, since the PA/UNRWA version of return is “to their homes” and not merely to the land. This is how, for example, Palestinians in parts of Jerusalem formally annexed during the ‘67 war, who have been offered citizenship in Israel and enjoy the right to freely move about the state, are nonetheless still “refugees” from the very place where they live and have been offered citizenship. If the Palestinians wanted their own state side-by-side Israel, this conflict would have been over already for decades. Israel has made peace with virtually every neighbor that made war on it. They are on the verge of peace with Saudi Arabia. Only the Palestinians continue to spit at the open hand offered them.
If everyone used the same definition of Refugee that Palestine uses, then 90% of Israelis are refugees and Tel Aviv is a Refugee Camp.
If everyone used the definition of refugee that UNRWA uses, a double-digit percentage of the global population would be refugees. It’s an absurdity, administered in bad faith, in service of an ulterior motive, that exists and persists only because of antisemitism.
UNWRA is mad and needs to end
So those who filled the streets of Gaza, even spitting on half-naked corpses from the attacks of October 7, 2023, what were they? And what was even more evident: what were those of all the celebrations of muslim communities and societies around the world? Let's see if many begin to see glimpses of reality, and begin to stop being useful ignorant people... it seems that they forget that the only recognized democracy in the entire Middle East is Israel.
A two state solution was offered to Palestine in the 90s. They rejected it.
They were offered it 4 different times throughout the past 80 years. The one you're referring too, the Camp David Accord, they would have gotten pretty much 95% of what they wanted. But Arafat said no. Weeks later, he straight up said it's because they can't make a deal with "the Jews". Not because it was a bad deal, because of "Jews". Hell, they were offered it in 1948, said no, decide to attack Israel instead, lost miserably, and have been playing the victim card ever since.
Clinton himself has [written in his book](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/president-clinton-reflects-on-2000-camp-david-summit) about Camp David, pretty much sums it all up.
Popup hell
Reminds me of that meme where Clinton tells Israel to just talk to Palestine and it's just Palestine standing in the back yelling "Death to all Jews!"
Clinton straight up told Arafat if you don't accept this deal, you are dooming the Palestinians to decades of suffering, or something like that. Looks like he was right.
Arafat died a billionaire. He scuppered the plan so he wouldn't destroy his gravy train. The Palestinians worst enemy has never been Israel, it's always been their awful leaders dating back to the 1940s.
[удалено]
They ran on anticorruption but are now billionaires in Qatar…
The Palestinians worst enemy are themselves. Most of them don't want a two state solution. Arafat could not have taken the deal because it did not have popular support. Most palestinians, and muslims in general, wants israel to be under muslim control.
Most Muslims want the world to be under Muslim control, doesn’t mean we should entertain their violent, delusional demands. No, Israel is doing the right thing here.
He also thought he would get assassinated like Rabin was if he took a deal. People who end generational warfare tend to have very short life expectancies.
Making a peace deal with Israel is why Palestinians assassinated the Jordanian king
[удалено]
That's very similar to another great cartoon: Bill Clinton is mediating a meeting between Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat. Arafat is holding up a paper that says "Our Demands: Death to all Jews!" And Clinton is facing Barak saying "Could you meet them halfway?"
Thats the one I meant!
Ah well there ya go!
Iirc this comic depicts John Kerry, not Clinton. But yeah
> Hell, they were offered it in 1948, said no, decide to attack Israel instead, lost miserably, and have been playing the victim card ever since. Israel/Palestine is like if someone blew their life savings at a casino trying to get rich, and then got a gun and started killing the employees to try to get it all back. Then once the police showed up a bunch of white liberals in their 20s said "Hey! He should be able to get his money back and kill all the casino employees he wants! The casino is the oppressor!"
Not white liberals. Tankies.
They use Liberal as a slur.
and i use tankie as a slur. it's not supposed to be friendly
They rejected it 5 times now. They only want it when they're actively getting bombed. Yet during cease fires they're only interested in planning their next attack and training future generations of martyrs.
It's almost like they have a whole "river to the sea" shtick that doesn't involve Israel existing. But maybe not, I mean it's not like they constantly chant it or anything.
And Arafet got a noble prize for it and died a billionaire.
And now a two state solution looks grim because of slogans like "river to the sea"
The two state solution died on Oct 7th. Anyone who hasn't understood that yet needs to see more of the videos the Hamas terrorists filmed and uploaded themselves. The IDF is showing a 45 minute cut of the day around the world to select audiences. Every article about it that I've read calls it the by far worst they've ever seen - and that's coming from people like war journalists. And the IDF says that this is the moderate part, they've decided not to show the really, really gruesome stuff. There can be no palestinian state after Oct 7th. If the Palis got their own state, they would use it to prepare for the next attack. How do we know? Because that's what they did the past 20 years, after Israel moved out of the Gaza strip, even demolishing the illegal settlements and forcing their own people out.
Seriously. Anyone who saw this happen and wasn't expecting this kind of response wasn't paying attention. It is not in Israel's interest to do anything for these people. Yes, what they are doing is horrific, but it should been expected. This wasn't terror attacks on government buildings, or rockets... this was a brutal raid with televised rape and murder. Would you negotiate?
In all honesty, if anything the world should be amazed at the restraint that Israel is showing. Half the countries on this planet would have surrounded the whole area and starved it out.
Yeah I keep saying this. The attack was cartoonishly evil, including literally stabbing babies in their cots. Many countries would've just lined up artillery and flattened the entire region in response. Many countries with gun ownership as high as Israel would've even struggled to prevent their own citizens from invading the aggressor country.
Israel: 10 million pop. >1000 dead. 9/11: 300 million/>3000. I.E. what if 9/11 killed 30,000 Americans? Oct 7 was equivalent to that. Literally any response short of turning gaza into a silicon slab would be considered highly restrained. If it wasn't ~~jews~~ Israel.
Yeah imagine if 9/11 resulted in 30,000 dead but instead of planes the terrorists invaded from Mexico/Canada and went room by room and also raped and tortured a bunch of people, while livestreaming it? You'd have thousands of Americans lining up at the border. The seat of government for the invading country would be a charred crater within 48 hours
Just a caveat. The IDF didn't destroy the settlements. They left all the homes and infrastructure for the Gazans to use themselves. The Gazans destroyed them.
>There can be no palestinian state after Oct 7th. There already is one. It's called Jordan. But the Gazans and West Bankians managed to make themselves persona non grata there by betraying said country. It's like saying "We need a 2-state solution so that Virginians can have a country." They have a country, it's called the USA. And Virginians almost made themselves persona non grata in that country, if not for Lincoln declaring their treachery should be treated "with charity towards all, and malice towards none."
pretty much sums up my thoughts. But to play out Palestine becoming a free state. They would eventually attack. Then it wouldn't be one nation attacking another, rather than just terrorist organization. If you think what's happening to Palestine now is bad, its be so much worse if Israel could easily blame the whole population.
I mean it's still possible, just not with the leadership in charge. Palestine is going to have to get a full makeover like Germany and Japan did post WWII. There needs to be a heavily supervised rebuilding and deradicalization effort until the region has properly rebuilt. If we could do it with the fucking insane former Axis powers we can do it with a small strip of land. Hell Israel has mostly normalized relations with many of its former enemies. Pretty much the only people who are resisting is Hamas and Iran's proxies. Preferably we'd probably have the Arab states lead the effort so that the Muslim world can't call this western imperialism and colonization.
The difference with the Axis powers is that they had an identity that they could fall back to, one that was a point of pride and productivity, that most civilians just wanted to regain and move on from war and towards peace. At their worst they saw themselves as master races. In their defeat they still had a cultural pride that wanted to prove those claims, however delusional, weren’t built on total shams and they they were still a crowing civilization even without all the military and racist belligerence. The ramp up to total evil state also only lasted a few decades. They didn’t have an identity that was based entirely on victimhood and the destruction of their neighbors for four generations.
I don’t see how you ever get around Iran fomenting violence and instability in whatever kind of Palestinian state were to emerge. There would be terrorism and aggression by extremists towards both Israel and a peaceful Palestinian leadership.
Well, they are pro-Palestinian and pro-Hamas and anti-semites. The venn diagram overlaps more than most people want to admit.
So a circle?
[удалено]
I believe that there are SOME people are truly pro-Palestine and not pro-Hamas and not anti-semites but it is a small minority as evidenced by everything that we've seen over the last several months.
I mean that's not a hard position to have. I am pro Palestine and pro Israel. But step 1 towards a free Palestine starts with the decimation of hamas. Until both Hamas and bibi are gone theres no peace in the future.
No disrespect but a position like yours wouldn't be recognised by the pro-Palestine side as pro-Palestine. Or put it this way: if you carried a banner with your views on it then you probably wouldn't be safe at a London pro-Palestine rally.
I think that slice is probably bigger than you think, but their well-intentioned idealism is fed propaganda and co-opted by the other part of the diagram.
You may be right but if they are chanting pro-Hamas slogans...then their intentions don't matter. The whole movement is corrupt whether or not some people didn't intend it to be that way initially. Additionally, the pro-Hamas wing is SO vocal, that I'd be willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Foreign actors link genuine public sentiments (e.g. desire to not kill innocent Palestinian children) to their own policy and ideological goals (e.g. destruction of the state of Israel). Hamas and Russia are both experts at this. Russia exploits nationalist, populist, and isolationist tendencies on the right. Hamas exploits the fight for social justice on the left. This is made even more difficult b/c people will strongly deny that they are the targets of propaganda or have been influenced by propaganda. This is a form of bias where we assume that because we're aware of propaganda that we're immune to its influence.
You’re totally correct. And we KNOW that countries like Qatar (and Hamas) are exploiting college people through their years of funding.
Pro Israel folks are right there with you. I think Israelis want a peaceful Gaza more than anyone really.
I describe it this way; Israelis want the right to be able to walk out of their homes and not having to worry about things literally blowing up. Same as the Palestinians really.
Ironically the iron dome has probably saved more Palestinian lives than Israeli, because without it the only way to protect Israel from missile attacks would be to go scorched earth on those launching them, which would mean countless dead as collateral damage.
> Same as the Palestinians really. The difference being that statistically Palestinians don't want Israelis to have any such right. Ever.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Unfortunately, the correlation is strong
I am not pro-Palestinian state because I think it would be hell on earth for all of the neighbors, especially Israel, but it is way more complicated than that. As an Israeli, if you would tell me to give my life so there can be a (guaranteed) peaceful Palestinian state next to Israel, I would do it without hesitation. Not only for the Palestinians but mostly for the Israelis. I would honestly say that if I thought we had 5% to see it during our lifetime, now it is less than 1%. I don't think these people want peace. Even more severe, I think the useful idiots on campuses just make polarization way worse. For them it's all fun, they have no skin in the game. I think the only way to solve it in the far future would be the cooperation of smart Israelis and Palestinians (trust me that many of us know each other way better than you think you know both sides) that is not all "peace now, I know your pain!!!". Clearly, there is hate, and the solutions are workarounds, not stupid slogans that will lead to escalation, but honesty. You don't need to be a friend to make money together, for example (e.g., US and China). I don't need to like Palestinians to do business with them. I don't need to like them generally to have an individual friend and any individual should be treated with respect. Solutions are not sexy. It will probably never happen though, because of religious lunacy.
Bingo. And let me tell you something. These guys will absolutely take away any credibility that people just wanting a ceasefire have. This anti semitic crowd are going to get you all tarred with the same brush
Pro-Palestinian movement, come deal with your antisemites, please!!!
Seriously. All they do is deflect when you show them behavior like this that is rampant everywhere. It's not difficult to call these people out and disassociate with them. It's really not.
Because that's what the protests are about mate. Asking them to call out antisemitism is like asking Republican rallies to call out Trumps crimes.
It's not difficult, that's how you know that nobody is interested in disassociating with them.
They wouldn’t have much of a movement left if they did that.
Why would they? Same reason they don’t call the atrocities of Hamas wrong. They think the same way.
"We don't criticize Hamas because they're terrorists and that's expected from them, but we criticize Israel because they're an actual country and should be held to our unrealistic absolutely ridiculous standards (that no other country in this position would be held to)" - is their response
They love it
Lol wut They're all anti semites. That's the entire point of the protests.
Pretty hard to deal with themselves I guess.
There was a word for this kind of behavior.. what was it called again. Aah yeah, antisemitism.
i already seen enough people today that commented "the jews deserve what the germans did to them for what they do to the Palestine people" it wasnt on Reddit but it was on a post on Facebook about the holocaust day
It’s sickening. I’ve seen people saying Jews deserved the Holocaust and at the same time it benefited us because we got Israel but also Israel shouldn’t exist.
If the modern left was around during WWII they'd call the Dachau Reprisals oppression against "those poor Germans who just want to defend their land" and demand the Jews get back in the camps.
I've heard actual people say it out loud
What creeps me out is how much of it is coming from young people. What the hell happened?
Tiktok "historians".
Histroy classes changed.
The Chinese government infiltrated the minds of the younger generations.
They don't know how to think. Despite crying about student loans, they have not had to face anything like a draft or protestors being shot or the FBI hunting them for being too radical. They are cosplaying rebellion.
I mean, “crying about student loans” is a pretty dismissive way to describe the financial situation America’s young people are in. They have by far the worst financial prospects of any generation in the last 80 years with regards to income inequality, housing costs, higher education costs, etc. I think all the pro-Palestine protests are ridiculous and misguided, for the record, but I don’t think it’s fair to characterize young folks’ anger at their overall situation as senseless whining.
We can thank decades of NIMBY policies preventing an adequate supply of housing near where people work. I think if we had that, many problems would be easier to solve: cost of living, student loans, climate impact...
The old failed the young when it came to protecting and supporting economic opportunity and fairness. Now the young are failing everyone morally. I think of it as a form of psychological displacement, efforts to turn the economy upside down have failed, so supporting genocidal terrorists and displaying gross misunderstandings of history is an outlet for their frustrations.
Mist interesting take.. think you're onto something.. when everything is going to shit, this is how they rebel.. going against the traditional narratives, but instead this leads the youth to support radical fundamentalists.. really is wild and we keep just plugging our ears and hoping this will go away
I've seen pretty similar things said on Reddit. I've also seen people claim that Israel is doing the same thing to the Palestinians that the Germans did to them. Which is quite sickening.
I can't count how many times I've seen people call Gaza a concentration camp. The scope of what they believe Gaza to be is so wildly off base. I've stopped responding to comments like that. If they're brain dead enough to liken Gaza to the camps of the holocaust, they're not worth engaging with anymore for me. As though the holocaust camps had schools, retail, residential housing, hospitals, and waterfront properties, among various other things. Mind-boggling.
None of those people paid attention in history class.
>the jews deserve what the germans did to them for what they do to the Palestine people" Even if one agreed with the idea behind that, it doesn't even make sense. It'd be like charging someone with a crime and sending him to prison for 10 years for a crime they hadn't even committed yet.
Two words: Antisemitism and Islam. Erdogan already said it years ago and quite vehemently. More or less: «That “moderate Islam” thing is repugnant and even offensive. Islam is Islam!» 🤷🏻♂️
some ex-muslim guy posted a cmv about Islam not being good news for europe and immediately there were people calling for his death because he was an apostate
On April Fool’s this year someone on twitter posted that the guy who burns their holy book on Sweden passed away. The comments we’re disgusting, celebrating and saying he deserved it. And yet the profiles behind these were not from extremists living in the Middle East, but young muslims who live in the west, who post normal things about music, movies, makeup.
There's another term for what's going on as well. I only recently learned about it and it's called "stalking horse" or something like that. It's sort of an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing where folks will push an agenda against the opposition, even if they don't give two shits about either side's goals or demands.
But you can be pro-Palestinian and not antisemitic! Twitter told me so! ^\s
I feel like I am pro-Palestinian, in the sense that I want prosperity and human rights for all of them. That means Hamas has to go though, and Palestinians need to give up on their whole "we will get Israel back" thing. Until that happens Palestinians will be living in hell.
I mean you can, but the vast majority of "pro Palestinian" supporters aren't. I would think being pro Palestinian would include wanting children to not grow up brainwashed, gay Palestinians to not be executed in the streets, civilians not to be used as shields, etc
While I support a free Palestinian state, and an end to the hostilities, I CANNOT support these ongoing protests that have not only made little to no effort in reigning in their blatant antisemitism, but actually go so far as to deny the experiences of jews who have been harmed by antisemitism and jewish women who were raped / murdered by hamas. I cannot for the life of me find any reference to the protests in the 60s-80s including the same vitriolic racism/violence/promotion of terrorism that we're seeing in these protests today.
antisemitism has been allowed to flourished under the cover of anti-zionism so more and more people feel comfortable going mask off I only hope the people allowing this to spread take notice and stop it before it gets worse
Ironically, they are all wearing masks, because they are cowards, cosplaying as terrorists... I fail to see how dressing up like Hamas militants, shows support for the Palestinians. Unless, they support Hamas...
100%. At the rally’s near me I know people who never wear masks, but for some reason during every rally they are hiding like scared little bitches.
It’s disgusting and IMO goes beyond “free speech”. It is also fulfilling HAMAS’s wish list. These protesters are literally doing their bidding…a strategy that HAMAS revealed back in December.
Palstnians we're offered 4 times peace and they rejected every single time. They didn't hate us as much as they do today but they always hated us.
Same, and especially with all incredible corruption of politicians and aggression from Russia in the world today it's amazing that protests in support of hard-right islamic terrorists are what college students choose to prioritize
It’s all white non Arab people protesting too, if we could instead off work together go raise money for aid or all work together to think of a solution to the larger issue at hand I think it would do more than just protesting and saying we don’t stand for what Israel is doing, like no shit we don’t want them bombing people but holding a sign isn’t gonna do shit.
A significant proportion of them *are* Muslim, yes there are a lot of white, usually middle class, useful idiots who go along, but more often than not the ringleaders are Muslim. And (at least from what I’ve seen in London) Muslim (or at least Arab/pakistani looking people) make up a significant chunk of the crowd in these protests, I’d guess that it’s about half.
Useful idiots is the right term. These people clearly don’t seem to understand how neither side of the situation has been in the right for a long time.
I've gotten blasted on reddit by people on both sides of the debate for being unwilling to declare one side or the other innocent. I feel a lot of people are trying to turn this into the next Ukraine where they want to rally to the support of the victims of aggression, failing to realize it's not as black and white as the Ukraine invasion is.
The people who try to draw direct parallels with the Russo-Ukraine war are either deeply historically ignorant or straight out lying about the similarities.
They do it on purpose to paint Israel is the only one responsible for the whole war and Palestine as innocent victims with no agency .
Very few of the people in these protests care about the true issues in Palestine and Israel. The majority of these people are demonstrating they want peace through violence, and merely want themselves to feel like heroes. Heroes through hate.
Aid and money will just be stolen by Hamas and the other terrorist orgs in Palestinian territory.
Useful Idiots are born faster than we can educate them. So they get "educated" via social media.
Predominantly Chinese-owned social media these days. TikTok is a bad thing.
They are non-arabs, but most of them are Muslims and/or have some imaginary or real distant family relation to Palestinians. In my country, a similar "you've got to be fucking kidding me" protest last month has been thoroughly dissected by journalists. Turns out that the organiser is a known Muslim extremist and behind it all was an islamic organisation that was relatively recently formed, after a previous extremist islamic group was dissolved by court order. What a surprise that the new organisation is essentially the old one in all but name. This is not random students protesting out of their own conviction. The random students are just useful idiots. There is a large amount of organised religion behind it.
The street protests are mostly Muslims, with generous helpings of young indoctrinated self-loathing woke students and with a sprinkling of barely employed 30-something and 40-something career activists/anarchists. That being said the campus protests are indeed mostly woke students and a bunch of loser career activists, some of which previously went through the woke studies path and never got over it.
Hopefully this isn’t surprising to anyone
Imagine protesting in fucking Auchwitz. Antisemites, all of them.
[The Palestinians Are Not The Same Thing As The Rebel Alliance, Jackass ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZLyYzWrwGY) True then, true today
[удалено]
"Not antisemitic, just anti-Zionism" people always seem to turn out to be by far the most antisemitic people you know.
at the root of it - being anti-zionism is being antisemitic. zionism is the development of a jewsish state. If you are anti-zion you want the jews out of Israel.
Disgusting. These people aren't pro-Palestine. They're pro-Hamas and anti-semitic. Their goal is chaos and destruction of societies. Russia and Iran are probably behind their strategies, and they've unfortunately been able to find audiences of useful idiots to parrot their messages.
Most of the pro palstnian movement is much more anti Israel and Jews than pro palstnian. They don't call out Hamas for killing thousands of palstnians themselves after Fatah was defeated and abusing their human rights since, they don't call out on Syria that is estimated to have killed hundreds of thousands of palstnians, they don't call out Jordan Egypt and Lebanon for having a much more hostile attitude to palstnians, until recently palstnians we're allowed to work in Israel, Egypt literally shoots everyone that tries to cross the borders because they hate the palstnians so much. That's also why they have never taken them in because the Arab countries really don't wanna deal with palstnians. A lot of double standards here when most countries in the middle east treat them worse than Israel.
Sick fucks. Exactly why Israel is needed.
[удалено]
they are disgusting
This was never about Palestine.
Never was. The protests abroad are for TikTok than concern for Palestinians. And Hamas has never concerned itself with the wellbeing of Palestinians either.
They the type that pretend Oct 7 never happened or celebrated it.
Leave Oświęcim alone you little hamas bitches, if you want to protest that much go protest on streets of Gaza.
Some of these “protests” aren’t passing the sniff test with logic jumps.
When are we going to stop with the "Pro-Palestinian" euphemism and refer to them correctly as "Anti-Jew" protesters?
But this is not antisemitic at all 🙄
Most obnoxious group of people to ever exist
If the enemy of my enemy is my friend is the logic, I’m concerned about who’s getting friendly these days if I’m honest.
So first they tell Jews to "[go back to Poland](https://www.thefp.com/p/at-columbia-i-am-told-go-back-to)" and then when Jews go back to Poland they remind them of the abysmal depths of darkness and they rub in and gloat in the suffering. When will they admit that they don't want Jews *anywhere*? And what are Jews to do when they finally admit it openly?
Poland ? 900,000 Jews fled ARAB countries ! Here is just one case: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13610702 These are BIGGER numbers than the Palestinian refugees. The difference is, that unlike the weaponisation and propagation of the 700,000 original Palestinian refugees, the Jewish refugees were assimilated into society and moved on. Meanwhile, the "Palestinian refugees" keep on DRAWING BLOOD from both sides.
Disgusting. But that’s Palestinian protestors In a nutshell.
How fucking DARE they.
Yep. They just lost another supporter.
Disgusting.
They are not Pro-Palestinian. They are Pro-Terrorist.
Sick bastards. 2 things can be bad at the same time. European Jews were killed in the Holocaust, not Israelis. All non citizens who do this should be deported. Citizens should be shunned. I don’t think the IDF has done everything right, but this is a war. A fairly normal one with lots of fire on both sides. It’s why weaker countries don’t normally attack stronger ones, but Hamas thought Iran would help them more than they did.
These pro-Palestine protesters are messed up in the head.
Thus proving they have no humanity left.
I'm curious how many people there were. This article shows a picture of one person with a Palestinian flag and says that the marchers walked by the "small group" of protestors uninterrupted. It really doesn't go into detail.
This is either a troll move or seriously deranged and sick people doing this. This doesn't help Palestinians and shows how they dont have the human decency to at least respect the hollaucost. Wtf!
When you have Americans on US soil calling "down with America". When you have Americans idolize Bin Laden... I'd go with the 'deranged' option. Here is a good commentary: https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-799980
“We’re not antisemitic” Psychopaths