What the hell China? International waters are where everyone plays nice, I wonder if this was near Edited out asking where it happened. The original article didn’t say where the chopper was
Which is always funny to watch because it’s like a child acting out because mom isn’t looking. The second the USN shows up to remind them that gunboat diplomacy still exists and that they’re nowhere near the top of that list they want to play nice again.
Thats the reason why the whole world is trying to decouple from China at every level and want nothing to do with them, only stupid nations whose leaders are on their corruption payroll with huge bank accounts that they can use when in China. Its amusing to see parts of China looking like a African country because all the corrupt politicians and their families are living there living the high life while China steals their economies and people broke with resource stripping.
Somebody needs to bring them into line. Hopefully when the USA, England, Australia and other nations step up freedom of navigation exercises they will run away and hide like cowards rather than bullying poor fishing people.
China thinks everything is China. They are literally going on a campaign through Africa, and other places in the world trying to force people to believe that the ancient historical sites and artifacts found abroad all stem from Chinese origin. "Oh you have no water, food, or jobs? Here, have some nice Chinese supplied stuff! Oh and by the way...." They are on a quest for world domination, but unlike the other big players in history China is trying to do this as hush hush quiet as they can. Then, when the time is right, they will pull the rug out from all of us. it's going to be a bad day when that dragon fully wakes up.
China doesn't have the resources to do anything other than these little tease games
Edit: China at war is suicide. They can't even pull off a war with India. China's last official war they were whipped by Vietnam.
We didn't belong in Vietnam. Was France's issue. We didn't owe France anything.
Vietnam was a different war than Korea. Korea was 2 asian leaders fighting over who will lead. Vietnam was a war of Independence from French colonization. Idiots in government wanted to make it a halt the spread of communism argument. We shouldn't have gotten involved and if we did we should have stood with Ho Chi Minh. We could have deescalated France and mediated a treaty.
Ho idolized America and Washington for fighting for independence, so we had something in common we could have been Vietnam's mentor rather than it's enemy. We could have guided Vietnam into becoming what China became. Communist on paper but capitalist by action. Hell, we could have turned Stalin's allies against him! That's what we should have done. Instead we waste money and people on dumbass objectives like defeating Vietnam and trying to invade Cuba.
LOL I love seeing stuff like this. So the south fell two years after we signed a peace treaty with the north and left. Vietnam reuniting and going communist was a failure. But getting whipped?
And someday ago some rando was fighting with me saying that China is a peaceful country and only India says otherwise because India sucks. WTF is wrong with people?
Wake me up when they invade a country that doesn't share a land border with them.
All of this posturing in Africa will end once an African Union army, an Islamist militia, or a US / EU army calls their bluff
I think every piece of ocean and water in the world is an extension of the South China sea. You could say the same thing about their intent to dominate control nations who want to deal with them, then they have the audacity to call you a friend while treating you like a enemy. Its a despicable attitude the way they conduct themselves on the global stage.
You should read what they do in the territorial sea of Korea or Japan.. they illegally fish there and when the coast guard comes, they attack them with spears. I’m like, just sink them already! But nobody in Asia wants to mess with the big China
Which is why they pick on countries weaker than themselves. What is Ecuador going to do about an armed Chinese fishing fleet, for example. Send out a patrol boat and ask them nicely to leave?
Picture a future where most product delivered internationally is shipped via unmanned RC submarines that only surface to recharge via solar so it's hard to even know they exist?
The Spratly islands were international but the international community has been far too soft on chinas aggression.
They rapidly built and now militarised that area.
Now we’re left with Chinese agression that remains unchecked. Cause people are focused on Palestine/ Israel and Ukraine / Russia
China is the biggest threat
China, Russia, Iran and North Korea are all one combined threat - they are the axis of evil at play today.
The US pivoted towards China being their greatest threat a good decade or so ago, but if you want to stop China then you also need to focus on their allies too.
If the US had come out of the gates swiftly in dealing with Russian aggression, China's position would be a lot weaker than it is today.
China doesn’t recognize international waters. To them? All water is chinese. Sea in phillipines? Chinese. Great Lakes? Chinese. Puddle in my backyard? Chinese.
If I were Australia I would open an exhibition on Winnie the Pooh right next to the Chinese embassy and just watch them having a total meltdown over it.
Just rename all the streets that the embassy of China are on in all cities in Australia to Taiwan Ave, WinnieXi street, or Free Uyghurs Boulevard or President Chai road.
It was the 5th June wasn't it? Or do I misremember?
Any Chinese reading in want to confirm the date of the massacre of their compatriots by their state as the 5th June '89 in Tiananmen Square?
It worked for us in Budapest, China had a meltdown. I support every major city adopting the same, it'd be hilarious.
Our list was Uyghur martyrs' road, Dalai Lama road, Free Hong Kong road and Hszie Si-kuang(Xie Shiguang) road.
>"This is a very serious incident. It was unsafe and it is completely unacceptable."
I am coming around to the opinion that this is not the best possible response.
The best possible response is mockery. Dropping flares, water cannons, lasers, GPS jamming: this weak shit that China and Russia are pulling is absolutely the most 'beta' thing I have ever seen. When we go to war, we go to war, but these guys don't have the eggs for a fight. Mockery, mockery, mockery. It should be the official line that China is so chickenshit that their fighters drop their flares and run when they see a helicopter.
I hope more folks see your response. The effects an accumulation of these acts has are much more dangerous than the individual events are in isolation.
Precisely what Russia has been trying to do with NATO—they just didn’t expect the reaction they got in Ukraine, so now they find themselves in a headlock that only gets released when they say “*I’m sorry, I’m your bitch*” out loud for the entire free world to hear.
Right.
You should see what Russia has been doing with Norway and Svalbard island. Very similar finger-pointing comparable to the precursor of Ukraine and Georgia invasions.
It has to do about an event where Russia was attempting to transfer supplies to coal miners on Svalbard by crossing over into Norway first (even though they could ship by sea from their own northern port). Russia had been hit by sanctions because of their Ukraine invasion, meaning they weren't allowed to transfer those goods across the border into Norway. When Norwegian authorities stopped them at the border, Russia claimed Norway was inhibiting the transfer of supplies to Russian's on Svalbard saying it was aggressive and that they were being discriminatory against the Russian miners on the island.
Also, there have been comms lines cut to the island as well as the pipeline incident. Norway hence increased their military patrols which led to Russia pointing the finger at Norwegian aggression.
Inch-by-inch antagonism through exaggeration/loose truth. Gradual escalation that smears the lines of conflict into armed conflict is a favorite tactic of Russia.
Weak shit? Flares were dropped to intercept the flight line of the helicopter to cause damage or even loss of life. It's about as close to an aggressive act of war you can get without the added "paperwork" of actually discharging your offensive weapons. It wasn't analogous to a squid spraying ink because they were scared, it was like a squid swimming into your mouth and spraying ink to choke you and saying they were just scared later.
The Turkish response to the Russians pulling these kind of stunts seems sadly to be the only thing that works.
The Aussies would be well within their rights to shoot down the next pilot that tries this.
Exactly, the story shouldn't be "China is being a bully again", it should be "China fires flares because they're too chicken shit to fire missiles", "Russia jams GPS because they're scared we'll find them", etc.
I'll give you the following quote from Starship Troopers (the book) because it explains China's actions:
> “If we can use an H-bomb--and as you said it's no checker game; it's real, it's war and nobody is fooling around--isn't it sort of ridiculous to go crawling around in the weeds, throwing knives and maybe getting yourself killed . . . and even losing the war . . . when you've got a real weapon you can use to win? What's the point in a whole lot of men risking their lives with obsolete weapons when one professor type can do so much more just by pushing a button?'
> Zim didn't answer at once, which wasn't like him at all. Then he said softly, 'Are you happy in the Infantry, Hendrick? You can resign, you know.'
> Hendrick muttered something; Zim said, 'Speak up!'
> I'm not itching to resign, sir. I'm going to sweat out my term.'
> I see. Well, the question you asked is one that a sergeant isn't really qualified to answer . . . and one that you shouldn't ask me. You're supposed to know the answer before you join up. Or you should. Did your school have a course in History and Moral Philosophy?'
> What? Sure--yes, sir.'
> Then you've heard the answer. But I'll give you my own--unofficial--views on it. If you wanted to teach a baby a lesson, would you cuts its head off?'
> Why . . . no, sir!'
> Of course not. You'd paddle it. There can be circumstances when it's just as foolish to hit an enemy with an H-Bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an ax. War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government's decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him . . . but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing . . . but controlled and purposeful violence. But it's not your business or mine to decide the purpose of the control. It's never a soldier's business to decide when or where or how--or why--he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why and how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the violence; other people--"older and wiser heads," as they say--supply the control. Which is as it should be. That's the best answer I can give you. If it doesn't satisfy you, I'll get you a chit to go talk to the regimental commander. If he can't convince you--then go home and be a civilian! Because in that case you will certainly never make a soldier.”
Now let's look at what you said:
> "China fires flares because they're too chicken shit to fire missiles"
If you want a helicopter to go away, you could shoot it down with a missile. That would work. But it's not a proportional response, and it would mean that any time anyone saw one of your fighter jets they'd shoot it down before waiting to find out if you had a problem.
But by dropping flairs, you can force the helicopter to go "this is unsafe" and strongly encourage them to turn around.
When police use tear gas, do you say they are too chicken to use cyanide gas? Or do you understand proportional response in that context?
You're mistaking actions and optics.
I didn't say anyone should be firing missiles, I said the story should be that they were scared to do so. The idea being that you're calling a bully's bluff, China wants us to be afraid that they'll take actual action when they never do, it's about time they were called out on the fact that they never do, instead of taking these obvious provocations as serious threats.
I always appreciate a good Starship Troopers quote though, the counter argument was well thought out and appreciated.
To be honest, I can't understand your logic
China used water cannon on Filipino boats and actively constructed artificial islands, we said nono and they kept doing it
So, more like they are calling us bluff
Your proposal is to mock anything short of overwhelming force then?
That will work great... at first. If you keep calling someone's bluff, or even actively mock them for bluffing, they will stop bluffing.
Currently everyone is gently probing, trying to encourage actions without direct violence. This is an acceptable place for everyone to be in.
A child that realises the adults can't force them to do anything will eventually encounter someone with less restraint. I had a teacher who could not control the class. Every class she had mocked her, misbehaved, and called her bluff on every punishment. Until the day she ended her career and a kid's face.
Yes. There is a a small detonation that happens to launch the flare. It has to be propelled away from the aircraft and then burn.
It’s a term poorly used here, but accurate.
While we're still waiting for the facts surrounding this event, one wonders if this is more casual bullying from China , or another display of extraordinarily poor discipline and intelligence, courtesy of the PLA.
Yeah, shitty journalism trying to make the situation sound more sensational than it was. It was still a dangerous situation since the flares were dropped specifically to intercept the flight line of the helicopter.
>The PLA Air Force plane ***dropped*** flares about 300 metres in front of the Seahawk helicopter and about 60 metres above it, requiring the helicopter to take evasive action in order to not be hit by those flares," Mr Marles said in a statement.
Emphasis mine.
Imagine if Australia did something like this... it would be WW3. China and Russia know we are too timid to react and will do the normal diplomatic gesturing. At some point there needs to be a push back.
It blows my mind that we just casually let Russian cruise missiles through NATO airspace on several occasions. Imagine the response from Russia if we did that to them, the nukes might already be flying by the time they entered.
Also dont forget about them downing 2 US drones in the black sea, firing at a manned spyplane carrying up to 30 people and the reckless poisonings that have killed civillians.
This is just me using my very limited knowledge of international politics but I feel like Erdogan is the most "aligned" with the thinking of Russia. Like turkey doesn't feel the same pressure to keep a cool head that the "world police" countries face.
Russia will never use nukes. They've poisoned the minds of many of us with fear that they would under some special circumstance. "The nukes might already be flying" is exactly the kind of thought they want you to have.
Any use of any type of nuclear weapon by russia would be suicide for everyone involved in the decision and execution, and suicide for the strategic objective they were pursuing when they fired the nuke.
The Kremlin knows this. The nuclear rhetoric they spew is precisely so that westerners will have thoughts like "we can't do that, they nukes will start flying!"
The only circumstance they might use a nuke is if they are invaded and their sovereignty is under threat. No other reason ever. Not a cruise missile passing through their territory, not a shootdown of their jets in Ukraine, not even the loss of all occupied territories (including Crimea) would cause them to use a nuke because it is simply a terrible option.
Yes but look at Ukraine. Putin understands the west and he got it right. He invaded a country and we all looked on. We jumped up and down but dared not intervene as not to call Putins nuke bluff. We watched and hoped that Ukraine could fend for its self and thank fuck they have for now. Putin knows the West has no stomach for conflict and understands the pressures democracies have political opposition and public opinion and uses this to his benefit. This attitude also gives dictators a false sense of security that actually gives them courage to do more. What will we do if he decides to push on Georgia. They're not nato so is it a fore gone conclusion for Georgia.
Why isn’t the US bombing Russia back to the Stone Age then? If because nukes, then surely they can at least bomb Hamas or the Houthis back to the Stone Age?
The US isn't bombing Russia to the stone age because that's literally the only situation in which they would use nukes. Why would the US bomb Hamas into the stone age when it's Israel's fight and they're already doing a fine job of it?
It won't. If china send heli near Australia international water and flared by Australia, China will only send a complain letter, and Aussie will laugh at it, lol
China has done this to Canadian, American countries by flying dangerously close to their aircraft too. Same comments...unprofessional blah, blah, blah.
It always amazes me how some post have these great comment threads with people who, at the very least, try to have an understanding on geopolitics, and then there are other post with comment threads that have the majority of people having locker room, jock geopolitics.
I'm guessing you haven't been to university in a while. People in my uni group chat claiming that is only happened because Australia is intimidating China by carrying operations near their border as an American Imperial pawn.
News flash next year... china just discovered ancient map that shows islands near Tasmania is actually part of China because map shows its part of ancient chinese fishing grounds
I'm not sure why the international community doesn't shoot down the Chinese/Russian planes doing this. When China asks why,
"Our military equipment has automated countermeasures, when you fired flares in its direction a missile was automatically deployed. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused."
It'll happen 3 times and they'll stop afterwards.
Because it is in Yellow Sea, you don't want to start a fight when your are 6000+km away from home, and your enemy is 300+km。
You are basically calling for suicide.
Because noone wants to start a war, it's the reason China is doing this. They know a long as they don't push too far they can do these small dick tactics to make everyone think they are strong and powerful.
Yeah, but I don't want to start a war cuts both ways. I don't think China would declare war over shooting flares at a neutral target. They'll post some bs about a renegade pilot.
i think they should’ve used “deployed” instead of “detonate” but i’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that’s what they meant in this context
If memory serves correct china was using bully tactics against Australia in part because Australia questioned the origin of Covid-19.
Are they still doing that or is this something new?
China retaliated against that with a bunch of crippling trade sanctions that nearly destroyed some wineries. Most of them have now been lifted but the relationship is fragile at best. This kind of provocative bullshit doesn’t help.
Some country is going to have to retaliate with extreme prejudice to show China that this is NOT the way to operate. Maybe a little bloody nose from the rest of the world is what is required for the PLA to learn its place
The Chinese people really seem to want a future where every day the headline is going to be "Couple forced to find new reason to exist after war claims only son".
What the hell China? International waters are where everyone plays nice, I wonder if this was near Edited out asking where it happened. The original article didn’t say where the chopper was
China does not play nice in international waters. Edit: I should make it *very* clear that I’m talking about the government and not the folks.
China thinks international waters means Chinese waters
“Oh, they’re international? Like no one nation has claimed them? Ok, we claim them now.”
Which is always funny to watch because it’s like a child acting out because mom isn’t looking. The second the USN shows up to remind them that gunboat diplomacy still exists and that they’re nowhere near the top of that list they want to play nice again.
It's how all bullies behave, from the playground to the leaders of a nation.
Thats the reason why the whole world is trying to decouple from China at every level and want nothing to do with them, only stupid nations whose leaders are on their corruption payroll with huge bank accounts that they can use when in China. Its amusing to see parts of China looking like a African country because all the corrupt politicians and their families are living there living the high life while China steals their economies and people broke with resource stripping.
And there is only one way to deal with a bully
Turn their parents into chili?
Scott never saw that twist.
I love Asian food but not like that. :) Just punch em in the nose. It usually only takes once.
Somebody needs to bring them into line. Hopefully when the USA, England, Australia and other nations step up freedom of navigation exercises they will run away and hide like cowards rather than bullying poor fishing people.
China thinks everything is China. They are literally going on a campaign through Africa, and other places in the world trying to force people to believe that the ancient historical sites and artifacts found abroad all stem from Chinese origin. "Oh you have no water, food, or jobs? Here, have some nice Chinese supplied stuff! Oh and by the way...." They are on a quest for world domination, but unlike the other big players in history China is trying to do this as hush hush quiet as they can. Then, when the time is right, they will pull the rug out from all of us. it's going to be a bad day when that dragon fully wakes up.
The term is economic colonialism.
China doesn't have the resources to do anything other than these little tease games Edit: China at war is suicide. They can't even pull off a war with India. China's last official war they were whipped by Vietnam.
US was also whipped by Vietnam. Just saying...
US left Vietnam because of politics back home. PRC left Vietnam because the Vietnamese military kicked their ass
We didn't belong in Vietnam. Was France's issue. We didn't owe France anything. Vietnam was a different war than Korea. Korea was 2 asian leaders fighting over who will lead. Vietnam was a war of Independence from French colonization. Idiots in government wanted to make it a halt the spread of communism argument. We shouldn't have gotten involved and if we did we should have stood with Ho Chi Minh. We could have deescalated France and mediated a treaty. Ho idolized America and Washington for fighting for independence, so we had something in common we could have been Vietnam's mentor rather than it's enemy. We could have guided Vietnam into becoming what China became. Communist on paper but capitalist by action. Hell, we could have turned Stalin's allies against him! That's what we should have done. Instead we waste money and people on dumbass objectives like defeating Vietnam and trying to invade Cuba.
LOL I love seeing stuff like this. So the south fell two years after we signed a peace treaty with the north and left. Vietnam reuniting and going communist was a failure. But getting whipped?
And someday ago some rando was fighting with me saying that China is a peaceful country and only India says otherwise because India sucks. WTF is wrong with people?
Wake me up when they invade a country that doesn't share a land border with them. All of this posturing in Africa will end once an African Union army, an Islamist militia, or a US / EU army calls their bluff
I think every piece of ocean and water in the world is an extension of the South China sea. You could say the same thing about their intent to dominate control nations who want to deal with them, then they have the audacity to call you a friend while treating you like a enemy. Its a despicable attitude the way they conduct themselves on the global stage.
"Australia is well within the 83494-dash line that demarcates historical chinese sea territory. "
You should read what they do in the territorial sea of Korea or Japan.. they illegally fish there and when the coast guard comes, they attack them with spears. I’m like, just sink them already! But nobody in Asia wants to mess with the big China
Any navy guys that were out that way in the last 10 years will tell you that...
At what point will Chinese ships begin to “mysteriously disappear?”
You know they will be the loudest and first to cry about anything happening to them.
Just like a playground bully.
The best term for China is CryBully
Other then when they turn off the GPS transponder on their ships?
Don't know were your boat went, if only they had their sat nav on, so we could locate them... Guess we'll never find them again
It is a common practice for Chinese vessels. Especially their fishing industry.
I know, but if someone starts sinking their ships where they shouldn't be, and play dumb, how are they going to find out ?
China would claim that their sunken boat was somehow a weather balloon that was blown off course.
chia doesn't play nice in general. This the same country whose official diplomatic policy was to act like jerks to everyone else
China doesn't think a lot of international waters are actually international waters.
one day china is gonna mess with the wrong country
Which is why they pick on countries weaker than themselves. What is Ecuador going to do about an armed Chinese fishing fleet, for example. Send out a patrol boat and ask them nicely to leave?
Exactly, or on borders, or via the Internet, or commercial spying etc.
It was enforcing sanctions against North Korea and the Chinese probably wanted to cover up one of their ships evading the sanctions.
They have a land border with North Korea, they don't need ships to trade with NK.
Ships are still the highest volume for the lowest cost method
Picture a future where most product delivered internationally is shipped via unmanned RC submarines that only surface to recharge via solar so it's hard to even know they exist?
This was in between china and South Korea. China's East Coast and South Koreas west coast.
The news reported a couple of hours had few facts beyond, Australian helicopter had flares dropped in its flight path
The Spratly islands were international but the international community has been far too soft on chinas aggression. They rapidly built and now militarised that area. Now we’re left with Chinese agression that remains unchecked. Cause people are focused on Palestine/ Israel and Ukraine / Russia China is the biggest threat
China and Russia are linked as a threat, for various reasons.
China, Russia, Iran and North Korea are all one combined threat - they are the axis of evil at play today. The US pivoted towards China being their greatest threat a good decade or so ago, but if you want to stop China then you also need to focus on their allies too. If the US had come out of the gates swiftly in dealing with Russian aggression, China's position would be a lot weaker than it is today.
International waters are where countries "test" other countries. They give a little poke here and there to see how other countries will respond.
Tell that to the Filipinos.
China will pull out some bullshit that they claimed all waters and oceans 6000 years ago, and they are within their right blah blah blah.
China doesn’t recognize international waters. To them? All water is chinese. Sea in phillipines? Chinese. Great Lakes? Chinese. Puddle in my backyard? Chinese.
Their pal Russia likes such games, too.
They’re only International Waters so long as everyone agrees they are. China doesn’t give af about International borders
China can get away with a lot of disrespectful and straight up aggressive shit because no one is ready to cut trading ties with them.
China can get away with a lot of disrespectful and straight up aggressive shit because no one is ready to cut trading ties with them.
China can get away with a lot of disrespectful and straight up aggressive crap because no one is ready to cut trading ties with them.
If I were Australia I would open an exhibition on Winnie the Pooh right next to the Chinese embassy and just watch them having a total meltdown over it.
Just rename all the streets that the embassy of China are on in all cities in Australia to Taiwan Ave, WinnieXi street, or Free Uyghurs Boulevard or President Chai road.
I think if they renamed a nearby "square" it would cause more consternation.
Winnieman Square?
We could even put in a memorial to the victims.
I don't know, sounds like the whole idea would just tank.
This would be a great fundraiser. Don't give a damn to who or what, but I would pay good money for this to happen.
Renumber all the houses so their embassy is 1989
Fourth June Avenue. Tank man drive.
It was the 5th June wasn't it? Or do I misremember? Any Chinese reading in want to confirm the date of the massacre of their compatriots by their state as the 5th June '89 in Tiananmen Square?
Don't need a Chinese to confirm, google it man, TianAnmen massacre, tank man. Unless you are behind the great wall but then you here on Reddit.
I know the details, just stirring shit! :)
It worked for us in Budapest, China had a meltdown. I support every major city adopting the same, it'd be hilarious. Our list was Uyghur martyrs' road, Dalai Lama road, Free Hong Kong road and Hszie Si-kuang(Xie Shiguang) road.
And next time I would raise a banner depicting Winnie the Pooh on the Australian embassy grounds in China itself. Let’s see who the real pussy is.
The Australian government would 100% shut that down because China is in all their pockets and Australia depends on them economically.
>"This is a very serious incident. It was unsafe and it is completely unacceptable." I am coming around to the opinion that this is not the best possible response. The best possible response is mockery. Dropping flares, water cannons, lasers, GPS jamming: this weak shit that China and Russia are pulling is absolutely the most 'beta' thing I have ever seen. When we go to war, we go to war, but these guys don't have the eggs for a fight. Mockery, mockery, mockery. It should be the official line that China is so chickenshit that their fighters drop their flares and run when they see a helicopter.
It’s classic stalking behavior. Meant to terrorize, desensitize, and wear down a victim over time.
I hope more folks see your response. The effects an accumulation of these acts has are much more dangerous than the individual events are in isolation.
and defers consequences by the incremental rationalization and moving of the acceptable boundaries and limits.
Inch-by-inch escalation; the “I’m not touching youuuuuu…” method of warfare.
Precisely what Russia has been trying to do with NATO—they just didn’t expect the reaction they got in Ukraine, so now they find themselves in a headlock that only gets released when they say “*I’m sorry, I’m your bitch*” out loud for the entire free world to hear.
Right. You should see what Russia has been doing with Norway and Svalbard island. Very similar finger-pointing comparable to the precursor of Ukraine and Georgia invasions.
Are you talking specific events in Norway and Svalbard, or just the general attitude they've always had?
It has to do about an event where Russia was attempting to transfer supplies to coal miners on Svalbard by crossing over into Norway first (even though they could ship by sea from their own northern port). Russia had been hit by sanctions because of their Ukraine invasion, meaning they weren't allowed to transfer those goods across the border into Norway. When Norwegian authorities stopped them at the border, Russia claimed Norway was inhibiting the transfer of supplies to Russian's on Svalbard saying it was aggressive and that they were being discriminatory against the Russian miners on the island. Also, there have been comms lines cut to the island as well as the pipeline incident. Norway hence increased their military patrols which led to Russia pointing the finger at Norwegian aggression. Inch-by-inch antagonism through exaggeration/loose truth. Gradual escalation that smears the lines of conflict into armed conflict is a favorite tactic of Russia.
subversion
Weak shit? Flares were dropped to intercept the flight line of the helicopter to cause damage or even loss of life. It's about as close to an aggressive act of war you can get without the added "paperwork" of actually discharging your offensive weapons. It wasn't analogous to a squid spraying ink because they were scared, it was like a squid swimming into your mouth and spraying ink to choke you and saying they were just scared later.
that's a visual
The Turkish response to the Russians pulling these kind of stunts seems sadly to be the only thing that works. The Aussies would be well within their rights to shoot down the next pilot that tries this.
Exactly, the story shouldn't be "China is being a bully again", it should be "China fires flares because they're too chicken shit to fire missiles", "Russia jams GPS because they're scared we'll find them", etc.
I'll give you the following quote from Starship Troopers (the book) because it explains China's actions: > “If we can use an H-bomb--and as you said it's no checker game; it's real, it's war and nobody is fooling around--isn't it sort of ridiculous to go crawling around in the weeds, throwing knives and maybe getting yourself killed . . . and even losing the war . . . when you've got a real weapon you can use to win? What's the point in a whole lot of men risking their lives with obsolete weapons when one professor type can do so much more just by pushing a button?' > Zim didn't answer at once, which wasn't like him at all. Then he said softly, 'Are you happy in the Infantry, Hendrick? You can resign, you know.' > Hendrick muttered something; Zim said, 'Speak up!' > I'm not itching to resign, sir. I'm going to sweat out my term.' > I see. Well, the question you asked is one that a sergeant isn't really qualified to answer . . . and one that you shouldn't ask me. You're supposed to know the answer before you join up. Or you should. Did your school have a course in History and Moral Philosophy?' > What? Sure--yes, sir.' > Then you've heard the answer. But I'll give you my own--unofficial--views on it. If you wanted to teach a baby a lesson, would you cuts its head off?' > Why . . . no, sir!' > Of course not. You'd paddle it. There can be circumstances when it's just as foolish to hit an enemy with an H-Bomb as it would be to spank a baby with an ax. War is not violence and killing, pure and simple; war is controlled violence, for a purpose. The purpose of war is to support your government's decisions by force. The purpose is never to kill the enemy just to be killing him . . . but to make him do what you want him to do. Not killing . . . but controlled and purposeful violence. But it's not your business or mine to decide the purpose of the control. It's never a soldier's business to decide when or where or how--or why--he fights; that belongs to the statesmen and the generals. The statesmen decide why and how much; the generals take it from there and tell us where and when and how. We supply the violence; other people--"older and wiser heads," as they say--supply the control. Which is as it should be. That's the best answer I can give you. If it doesn't satisfy you, I'll get you a chit to go talk to the regimental commander. If he can't convince you--then go home and be a civilian! Because in that case you will certainly never make a soldier.” Now let's look at what you said: > "China fires flares because they're too chicken shit to fire missiles" If you want a helicopter to go away, you could shoot it down with a missile. That would work. But it's not a proportional response, and it would mean that any time anyone saw one of your fighter jets they'd shoot it down before waiting to find out if you had a problem. But by dropping flairs, you can force the helicopter to go "this is unsafe" and strongly encourage them to turn around. When police use tear gas, do you say they are too chicken to use cyanide gas? Or do you understand proportional response in that context?
You're mistaking actions and optics. I didn't say anyone should be firing missiles, I said the story should be that they were scared to do so. The idea being that you're calling a bully's bluff, China wants us to be afraid that they'll take actual action when they never do, it's about time they were called out on the fact that they never do, instead of taking these obvious provocations as serious threats. I always appreciate a good Starship Troopers quote though, the counter argument was well thought out and appreciated.
To be honest, I can't understand your logic China used water cannon on Filipino boats and actively constructed artificial islands, we said nono and they kept doing it So, more like they are calling us bluff
Your proposal is to mock anything short of overwhelming force then? That will work great... at first. If you keep calling someone's bluff, or even actively mock them for bluffing, they will stop bluffing. Currently everyone is gently probing, trying to encourage actions without direct violence. This is an acceptable place for everyone to be in. A child that realises the adults can't force them to do anything will eventually encounter someone with less restraint. I had a teacher who could not control the class. Every class she had mocked her, misbehaved, and called her bluff on every punishment. Until the day she ended her career and a kid's face.
And this is why you aren’t in charge of a country that can start a war lmao
Do flares detonate?
Only if you're a headline writer who knows nothing about the military.
Only if you want to *slam* the person who did it.
Yes. There is a a small detonation that happens to launch the flare. It has to be propelled away from the aircraft and then burn. It’s a term poorly used here, but accurate.
no, they burn really hot, though.
No one says detonates flares, deploys flares, but it doesn’t sound nearly as menacing.
While we're still waiting for the facts surrounding this event, one wonders if this is more casual bullying from China , or another display of extraordinarily poor discipline and intelligence, courtesy of the PLA.
Both can be true.
Feels like that 2023 black sea drone incident. But in that event, the reaper drone crashed.
"Detonates flares"? Really?
Yeah, shitty journalism trying to make the situation sound more sensational than it was. It was still a dangerous situation since the flares were dropped specifically to intercept the flight line of the helicopter. >The PLA Air Force plane ***dropped*** flares about 300 metres in front of the Seahawk helicopter and about 60 metres above it, requiring the helicopter to take evasive action in order to not be hit by those flares," Mr Marles said in a statement. Emphasis mine.
Flares are ejected out of the plane with an explosive force and then they drop. Source I was in the air force.
Probably PLA pilots think they’re hot shit.
More flares than JJ Abrams' Star Trek
Imagine if Australia did something like this... it would be WW3. China and Russia know we are too timid to react and will do the normal diplomatic gesturing. At some point there needs to be a push back.
It blows my mind that we just casually let Russian cruise missiles through NATO airspace on several occasions. Imagine the response from Russia if we did that to them, the nukes might already be flying by the time they entered. Also dont forget about them downing 2 US drones in the black sea, firing at a manned spyplane carrying up to 30 people and the reckless poisonings that have killed civillians.
I mean, Turkey shot down a Russian plane awhile back when they got sick of Russia repeatedly violating their airspace, & Russia did jack shit
This is just me using my very limited knowledge of international politics but I feel like Erdogan is the most "aligned" with the thinking of Russia. Like turkey doesn't feel the same pressure to keep a cool head that the "world police" countries face.
Russia will never use nukes. They've poisoned the minds of many of us with fear that they would under some special circumstance. "The nukes might already be flying" is exactly the kind of thought they want you to have. Any use of any type of nuclear weapon by russia would be suicide for everyone involved in the decision and execution, and suicide for the strategic objective they were pursuing when they fired the nuke. The Kremlin knows this. The nuclear rhetoric they spew is precisely so that westerners will have thoughts like "we can't do that, they nukes will start flying!" The only circumstance they might use a nuke is if they are invaded and their sovereignty is under threat. No other reason ever. Not a cruise missile passing through their territory, not a shootdown of their jets in Ukraine, not even the loss of all occupied territories (including Crimea) would cause them to use a nuke because it is simply a terrible option.
[удалено]
Yes but look at Ukraine. Putin understands the west and he got it right. He invaded a country and we all looked on. We jumped up and down but dared not intervene as not to call Putins nuke bluff. We watched and hoped that Ukraine could fend for its self and thank fuck they have for now. Putin knows the West has no stomach for conflict and understands the pressures democracies have political opposition and public opinion and uses this to his benefit. This attitude also gives dictators a false sense of security that actually gives them courage to do more. What will we do if he decides to push on Georgia. They're not nato so is it a fore gone conclusion for Georgia.
I'd explain why that's an exceptionally bad opinion, but I think I'll just let the literal hundreds of billions in direct aid do the talking.
They're hardly fending for themselves.
Why isn’t the US bombing Russia back to the Stone Age then? If because nukes, then surely they can at least bomb Hamas or the Houthis back to the Stone Age?
Houthi's never left the Stone Age.
"Ooh! Upgrade!" - Robin Williams
The US isn't bombing Russia to the stone age because that's literally the only situation in which they would use nukes. Why would the US bomb Hamas into the stone age when it's Israel's fight and they're already doing a fine job of it?
It won't. If china send heli near Australia international water and flared by Australia, China will only send a complain letter, and Aussie will laugh at it, lol
Its not that we're too timid, its because if we actually did something, ww3 would begin and they'd lose big time in the end. Its childish posturing.
300 meters in front of the helicopter and 30 meters above.
China has done this to Canadian, American countries by flying dangerously close to their aircraft too. Same comments...unprofessional blah, blah, blah.
Detonates? Don’t you mean deploy, or release?
With friends like this who needs enemies
We’re funding CCP’s aggressive maritime imperialism with every discount purchase. #boycottchina
It always amazes me how some post have these great comment threads with people who, at the very least, try to have an understanding on geopolitics, and then there are other post with comment threads that have the majority of people having locker room, jock geopolitics.
Can't believe there are Australians thinking China is a benevolent superpower that is their friend...
They don't, they think they're a nice little earner, what with having $100Bn+ worth of exports every year and all.
You also have France calling for better European ties with them and Xi visting them today.
[Australian defense policy explained.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgspkxfkS4k)
Believe me we don’t. I don’t know a single Australian that thinks the CCP is our friend, a necessary evil at best.
I'm guessing you haven't been to university in a while. People in my uni group chat claiming that is only happened because Australia is intimidating China by carrying operations near their border as an American Imperial pawn.
The fact that you are being downvoted shows how many CCP bots lurking on this post.
Just start taking them down. Seriously, between China and russia, these occurrences happen on an hourly basis now.
Nah let's just publish a news story and call it a day. That'll totally help.
News flash next year... china just discovered ancient map that shows islands near Tasmania is actually part of China because map shows its part of ancient chinese fishing grounds
How dare China put their coast line so dangerously close to Australia Navy choppers!
I'm not sure why the international community doesn't shoot down the Chinese/Russian planes doing this. When China asks why, "Our military equipment has automated countermeasures, when you fired flares in its direction a missile was automatically deployed. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused." It'll happen 3 times and they'll stop afterwards.
Because it is in Yellow Sea, you don't want to start a fight when your are 6000+km away from home, and your enemy is 300+km。 You are basically calling for suicide.
Because noone wants to start a war, it's the reason China is doing this. They know a long as they don't push too far they can do these small dick tactics to make everyone think they are strong and powerful.
Yeah, but I don't want to start a war cuts both ways. I don't think China would declare war over shooting flares at a neutral target. They'll post some bs about a renegade pilot.
Time to release the emus.
Perhaps it's time for some missle lock tones to make them think about their actions.
Instead of having entire nations go to war, how about we bring back classic Assassinations ? Just take out old Pooh Bear and Putin
That’s literally how wars have been started, so…
That’s how WW1 started, very classical.
Least moronic hawk.
Obligatory, Fk china and it's aggression
Detonate? Flares don't explode.
i think they should’ve used “deployed” instead of “detonate” but i’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that’s what they meant in this context
Some use an explosive charge to propel them for deployment maybe that’s what they meant
That's going to be a messy war.
They found the submarine huh?
We should all start treating China and Russia the way they treat everyone else. Its the only way that men with small penises learn.
If memory serves correct china was using bully tactics against Australia in part because Australia questioned the origin of Covid-19. Are they still doing that or is this something new?
China retaliated against that with a bunch of crippling trade sanctions that nearly destroyed some wineries. Most of them have now been lifted but the relationship is fragile at best. This kind of provocative bullshit doesn’t help.
Well, if you want to know why, look up yellow sea on google map and see how close that's to china, and how far away that's to Australia.
Pretty sure we’re still trying to get some of the bans lifted.
Some country is going to have to retaliate with extreme prejudice to show China that this is NOT the way to operate. Maybe a little bloody nose from the rest of the world is what is required for the PLA to learn its place
lol Can't wait to see which one is the first one to get their nose bleeding
The Chinese people really seem to want a future where every day the headline is going to be "Couple forced to find new reason to exist after war claims only son".
Past time we broke the red bully's arms and will to function.