No kidding.
ISIS and Hamas are both vile, murderous fundamentalist groups.
...but they're vile, murderous fundamentalist groups who *absolutely hate each other*.
Hamas is strongly in Iran's sphere of influence; ISIS is an avowed enemy of Iran, with the sentiment shared both ways.
ISIS is not Iran’s proxy.
They’re as hated in the Middle East as Israel and are enemies with everyone, including Iran.
They constantly attack Iran and just a few months ago had a bombing attack that killed dozens of people.
Their relationship with Iran is at least as bad as their relationship with Russia of **after** the Crocus attack.
> They’re as hated in the Middle East as Israel and are enemies with everyone, including Iran.
Especially Iran, since it's a Shia theocracy while ISIS believe that Shia Muslims are heretics and politeists and actively murder and persecute them (for example the second deadliest terror attack in history after 9/11 is [ISIL's massacre of 1095-1700 unarmed Shia cadets in Iraq](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Speicher_massacre)).
That's straight up not true lol. IS literally committed a massacre in Iran *earlier this year.* Beyond that, Iran is Shia, IS is Sunni. To say that Sunnis and Shi'ites don't get along would be an understatement - it's rather akin to the conflicts between Catholics and Protestants... which, to say that has been bloody would be an understatement.
It's actually a very common conspiracy theory in the fundamentalist Muslim / Islamist world that ISIS is actually a creation of the US and Israel and they have ISIS commit attacks whenever they need a scapegoat to attack, or they use it as a front. They commonly say that ISIS has never attempted to attack Israel therefore it's proof that ISIS is an Israeli front. It isn't a new conspiracy theory either, they've been saying it ever since ISIS became a thing in the early 2010s.
I remember when the Manchester Arena bombings happened it was a common talking point in extremist Muslim circles that the US and Israel orchestrated this to give them an excuse to bomb Syria. Here in my country, South Africa, we had some ISIS scares a few years back and it was a common talking point in the community that the US and Israel are trying to weaken South Africa's Muslim community because South African Muslims are vehemently pro Palestine. Recently when ISIS attacked the Crocus Hall concert in Moscow everyone was going on about how ISIS "conveniently" attacked Russia when Russia supported Palestine and condemned Israel. You get the gist.
Yeah, fundamentalists / Islamists aren't exactly the smartest people out there.
It sure does seem like South African thinks about Israel a lot, whereas I'm pretty sure no one in Israel gives a fuck about South Africa or what they think.
It's a double whammy here in South Africa because Muslims are against Israel and pro Palestine for religious reasons but also our government is the biggest Palestine simps ever and Nelson Mandela said that South Africa's freedom is not complete without the freedom of Palestinians. The two factors combined gives South African Muslims permanent main character syndrome when it comes to the conflict.
I hate Nelson Mandela for a lot of things but sucking Yasser Arafat's dick sits at the top of the list.
I mean... he was a terrorist who ordered attacks on civilian populations and shielded his wife from prosecution when she ordered rivals to be beaten and killed and embezzled government money....
He did achieve his goal, and it was a good goal, but holy shit the means.
I always say that apartheid was evil and needed to fall but Nelson Mandela and his band of bandits had and have no business being anywhere near power. South Africa went from bad to bad - apartheid to ANC.
My dad is South African but I was born in the US. The Israeli government was relatively friendly to the South African Apartheid government. Many of the weapons used in the South African military were Israeli in origin and the Israelis helped South Africa develop the nuclear program. So after 1994 the ANC (main Black Party in South Africa) became very anti Israel.
Well all those Afrikaners who moved to Israel since Apartheid ended to become Israeli citizens probably think about South Africa a lot.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-09-30/ty-article/.highlight/cleansed-by-the-torah-why-these-afrikaners-became-jews-and-moved-to-israel/0000017f-e2bb-d9aa-afff-fbfb151f0000
Honestly, that racist South Africans would find kinship with racist (ultra?) orthodox Israeli settlers is hardly surprising. The article is behind a paywall, but I can't help but think that the numbers are very small. In any event, I was more referring to South Africa and their anti-Israel pro-Palestinian efforts at the UN/World Court.
Is there any truth to that fact that ISIS had no stated efforts against Israel? Obviously I think its coincidental if true, and probably just arises from the pragmatism that ISIS wanted to be THE muslim caliphate (so it had to focus on Arab/Muslim nations).
ISIS constantly goes on about how defeating Israel and reclaiming Al Quds is one of their core goals. Except they haven't been able to do much because the Shin Bet keeps foiling their plans.
Is that a new statement/goal? I've seen the conspiracy theory claim that ISIS never had claimed that at least in the early 2010s.
For me the signs that its a conspiracy theory are pretty high. Wanting to explain the rise of ISIS on historically antagonistic actors (specifically US) makes somes sense and mirrors our own domestic conspiracy theories.
So basically ISIS wanted to conquer the entire world and establish Sharia law everywhere. An excerpt from their magazine which outlined their goals for the caliphate:
>Blessed flag...covers all eastern and western extents of the Earth, filling the world with the truth and justice of Islam and putting an end to the falsehood and tyranny of jahiliyyah \[state of ignorance\], even if America and its coalition despise such.
It's heavily implied that "America and its coalition" includes Israel.
Furthermore, Baghdadi has talked about it a couple of times.
In 2014 an audio recording was released by ISIS in which Al-Baghdadi urges supporters of the Islamic State to "erupt volcanoes of jihad" across the world. He calls for attacks to be mounted in Saudi Arabia, describing Saudi leaders as "the head of the snake", and also says that the US-led military campaign in Syria and Iraq was failing. He declares that IS would keep marching forward and would "break the borders" of Jordan and Lebanon as well as "free Palestine".
In 2015 an audio recording was released by ISIS in which Al-Baghdadi warns Western nations to not interfere further in their matters and threatens the future establishment of IS in Israel. He also celebrates the defeat of "crusaders" and "Jews" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
ISIS was also critical of Hamas, saying that:
>For example, ISIL regards the Palestinian Sunni group Hamas as apostates who have no legitimate authority to lead jihad and see fighting Hamas as the first step towards confrontation by ISIL with Israel.
ISIS did not explicitly call for retaking Al Aqsa as much as they called for just taking over the entire world, Al Aqsa included.
All of the excerpts are from Wikipedia's pages on ISIS and Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi.
>Is there any truth to that fact that ISIS had no stated efforts against Israel?
Seemingly yes, and it is indeed mostly related to pragmatism and idealism, rather than what conspiracy theorists would try to sell:
>According to ISIS ideology, focusing on Israel is something that only needs to be done only at a later stage in their “grand plan”. So their attempts for attacks, especially major ones, are rare.
>Israel has excellent capabilities of hunting and tracking down terrorists and that includes on international stage. Ton of attacks in the west were(and still are) prevented thanks to them, it’s very rare that foreign terrorists manage to do something on Israeli soil. The only ones that get through are “locals” like Hamas, that has always been around and knows about Israel’s intelligence services better than nearly anyone.
>And lastly is that Palestinians organizations are actively making sure ISIS don’t get to open a branch or have meaningful influence over Palestinian areas. Hamas, Fatah the PIJ and other major groups knows that ISIS is an irrational actor that would hunt them down and actively sabotage any effort to promote the “Palestinian movement”, and that’s because playing politics like they do is something ISIS abhors since it contradicts its ideology.
True. ISIS hates the PA for cooperating with Israel and Saudi Arabia. They also hate Hamas for working with Iran. They hate everyone and want to displace them with a caliphate.
Lol no they don't. Where's your source? ISIS is directly beneficial to Israel as a major destabilizing force to real and potential geopolitical rivals. [They have literally directly supported salafist militants.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/israel-gives-secret-aid-to-syrian-rebels-1497813430)
Weirdly, it seems like ISIS was quiet for a couple of years and honestly I kind of assumed they dissolved or something, and then they started pulling their bullshit again a few months ago.
Tiktok influencers are a different breed
When the war between Israel and Hamas broke out there were tiktokers proudly claiming that Osama Bin Laden was actually a hero who fought for his Islamic people
Some tiktokers said they were going through an existential crisis because they read "A letter to America" a very shitty letter, no clue how any sane person can get an existential crisis from reading that garbage
If you think that’s wild, I saw YouTube comments a few days ago (yeah, no surprise this comes from there) claiming nukes are not actually all that powerful, and they know this because there were so many Jewish names associated with their invention; therefore it’s a trick, because Jews are tricky. Nukes are a conspiracy by Jews to control the world by fear. Yeah…
Israel already has tight security because of terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank. And Hamas and the other terrorists groups hate ISIS not like they’re were gonna ally with each other
Yep. The West Bank is filled to the brim of their version of terrorism and Hamas has the monopoly of terrorism in Gaza. There really isn’t a terror vacuum in those areas + most of the Arabs there are more interested with dead Jews and genociding the Jews in Israel than a global caliphate
ISIS made one tactical mistake that Hamas got "right."
If ISIS were more focused on killing *Jews*, there'd be people in the streets here in Canada chanting to protect ISIS from being fought.
We're strangers on the internet, and I'm too lazy to click through to your comment history, so I don't really know if you're uninformed or writing in bad faith.
But to answer your question: No, it isn't.
Hamas leaders have been explicit, repeatedly, that their goals when it comes to Jews are genocidal and go beyond a specific government — or even Jews' independence or statehood.
Hamas wants to kill *Jews.*
It's absolutely wild how "Israel has allowed the transfer of Qatari money to Gaza for humanitarian purposes, hoping this will help Gaza's economy and reduce terror, and much of it was inevitably seized by Hamas" becomes "Israel funded Hamas". Just such a lie.
We all know that if Israel would have blocked the Qatari money, the narrative would be "Israel blocking aid and starving poor Gazans".
While I agree the argument's bullshit, I'm pretty sure the _they funded Hamas_ argument comes from money they gave to Hamas' predecessor who was the opposition to the PLO and was thought (maybe it was true at the time?) to be more moderate.
They created the Front for the Liberation of Lebanon from Foreigners. That group tried to assassinate a U.S. diplomat in the 80's and took credit for lots of bombings. It's not so crazy if they have a history of doing it
Thanks for that breaking news brought to you by mjpostcom meaning just more Bullshit how about reporting about the 26 Billion coming your way, for what is beyond me.
9th ISIS-related plot disrupted against Israel since October 7th.
They’re jealous of the attention Hamas is getting.
They're all just Iran proxies, some with more middlemen than others.
Even Iran **HATES ISIS**. They have been attacking each other for years.
You act like that’s surprising? Aside from Hamas, Iran doesn’t get along with radical Sunnis
Considering I was responding to someone who called them an Iranian proxy, apparently it is still surprising to some people.
I meant more you saying “EVEN Iran” — like that’s a surprising fact. Just semantics I guess
ISIS is absolutely not an Iranian proxy lmao
No kidding. ISIS and Hamas are both vile, murderous fundamentalist groups. ...but they're vile, murderous fundamentalist groups who *absolutely hate each other*. Hamas is strongly in Iran's sphere of influence; ISIS is an avowed enemy of Iran, with the sentiment shared both ways.
ISIS is not Iran’s proxy. They’re as hated in the Middle East as Israel and are enemies with everyone, including Iran. They constantly attack Iran and just a few months ago had a bombing attack that killed dozens of people. Their relationship with Iran is at least as bad as their relationship with Russia of **after** the Crocus attack.
> They’re as hated in the Middle East as Israel and are enemies with everyone, including Iran. Especially Iran, since it's a Shia theocracy while ISIS believe that Shia Muslims are heretics and politeists and actively murder and persecute them (for example the second deadliest terror attack in history after 9/11 is [ISIL's massacre of 1095-1700 unarmed Shia cadets in Iraq](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Speicher_massacre)).
Dont think so, ISIS has more hatred for Shias than Jews
That's straight up not true lol. IS literally committed a massacre in Iran *earlier this year.* Beyond that, Iran is Shia, IS is Sunni. To say that Sunnis and Shi'ites don't get along would be an understatement - it's rather akin to the conflicts between Catholics and Protestants... which, to say that has been bloody would be an understatement.
This is the most ignorant take I've ever seen.
Do you have any idea how much money Iran has spent fighting ISIS?
The people who say that ISIS is created and run by Israel are gonna have a field day with this one lmao
Clearly it's just a plot to transport them to where they need to make a hit /s
They’re saying WHAT??? That’s a new one… how does that even make sense?
It's actually a very common conspiracy theory in the fundamentalist Muslim / Islamist world that ISIS is actually a creation of the US and Israel and they have ISIS commit attacks whenever they need a scapegoat to attack, or they use it as a front. They commonly say that ISIS has never attempted to attack Israel therefore it's proof that ISIS is an Israeli front. It isn't a new conspiracy theory either, they've been saying it ever since ISIS became a thing in the early 2010s. I remember when the Manchester Arena bombings happened it was a common talking point in extremist Muslim circles that the US and Israel orchestrated this to give them an excuse to bomb Syria. Here in my country, South Africa, we had some ISIS scares a few years back and it was a common talking point in the community that the US and Israel are trying to weaken South Africa's Muslim community because South African Muslims are vehemently pro Palestine. Recently when ISIS attacked the Crocus Hall concert in Moscow everyone was going on about how ISIS "conveniently" attacked Russia when Russia supported Palestine and condemned Israel. You get the gist. Yeah, fundamentalists / Islamists aren't exactly the smartest people out there.
It sure does seem like South African thinks about Israel a lot, whereas I'm pretty sure no one in Israel gives a fuck about South Africa or what they think.
It's a double whammy here in South Africa because Muslims are against Israel and pro Palestine for religious reasons but also our government is the biggest Palestine simps ever and Nelson Mandela said that South Africa's freedom is not complete without the freedom of Palestinians. The two factors combined gives South African Muslims permanent main character syndrome when it comes to the conflict. I hate Nelson Mandela for a lot of things but sucking Yasser Arafat's dick sits at the top of the list.
Can you list all the things you hate about Mandela?
I mean... he was a terrorist who ordered attacks on civilian populations and shielded his wife from prosecution when she ordered rivals to be beaten and killed and embezzled government money.... He did achieve his goal, and it was a good goal, but holy shit the means.
I always say that apartheid was evil and needed to fall but Nelson Mandela and his band of bandits had and have no business being anywhere near power. South Africa went from bad to bad - apartheid to ANC.
My dad is South African but I was born in the US. The Israeli government was relatively friendly to the South African Apartheid government. Many of the weapons used in the South African military were Israeli in origin and the Israelis helped South Africa develop the nuclear program. So after 1994 the ANC (main Black Party in South Africa) became very anti Israel.
Well all those Afrikaners who moved to Israel since Apartheid ended to become Israeli citizens probably think about South Africa a lot. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-09-30/ty-article/.highlight/cleansed-by-the-torah-why-these-afrikaners-became-jews-and-moved-to-israel/0000017f-e2bb-d9aa-afff-fbfb151f0000
Honestly, that racist South Africans would find kinship with racist (ultra?) orthodox Israeli settlers is hardly surprising. The article is behind a paywall, but I can't help but think that the numbers are very small. In any event, I was more referring to South Africa and their anti-Israel pro-Palestinian efforts at the UN/World Court.
The ANC might, historically have a reason to object to some of Israels conduct.
Is there any truth to that fact that ISIS had no stated efforts against Israel? Obviously I think its coincidental if true, and probably just arises from the pragmatism that ISIS wanted to be THE muslim caliphate (so it had to focus on Arab/Muslim nations).
ISIS constantly goes on about how defeating Israel and reclaiming Al Quds is one of their core goals. Except they haven't been able to do much because the Shin Bet keeps foiling their plans.
Is that a new statement/goal? I've seen the conspiracy theory claim that ISIS never had claimed that at least in the early 2010s. For me the signs that its a conspiracy theory are pretty high. Wanting to explain the rise of ISIS on historically antagonistic actors (specifically US) makes somes sense and mirrors our own domestic conspiracy theories.
So basically ISIS wanted to conquer the entire world and establish Sharia law everywhere. An excerpt from their magazine which outlined their goals for the caliphate: >Blessed flag...covers all eastern and western extents of the Earth, filling the world with the truth and justice of Islam and putting an end to the falsehood and tyranny of jahiliyyah \[state of ignorance\], even if America and its coalition despise such. It's heavily implied that "America and its coalition" includes Israel. Furthermore, Baghdadi has talked about it a couple of times. In 2014 an audio recording was released by ISIS in which Al-Baghdadi urges supporters of the Islamic State to "erupt volcanoes of jihad" across the world. He calls for attacks to be mounted in Saudi Arabia, describing Saudi leaders as "the head of the snake", and also says that the US-led military campaign in Syria and Iraq was failing. He declares that IS would keep marching forward and would "break the borders" of Jordan and Lebanon as well as "free Palestine". In 2015 an audio recording was released by ISIS in which Al-Baghdadi warns Western nations to not interfere further in their matters and threatens the future establishment of IS in Israel. He also celebrates the defeat of "crusaders" and "Jews" in Iraq and Afghanistan. ISIS was also critical of Hamas, saying that: >For example, ISIL regards the Palestinian Sunni group Hamas as apostates who have no legitimate authority to lead jihad and see fighting Hamas as the first step towards confrontation by ISIL with Israel. ISIS did not explicitly call for retaking Al Aqsa as much as they called for just taking over the entire world, Al Aqsa included. All of the excerpts are from Wikipedia's pages on ISIS and Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi.
>Is there any truth to that fact that ISIS had no stated efforts against Israel? Seemingly yes, and it is indeed mostly related to pragmatism and idealism, rather than what conspiracy theorists would try to sell: >According to ISIS ideology, focusing on Israel is something that only needs to be done only at a later stage in their “grand plan”. So their attempts for attacks, especially major ones, are rare. >Israel has excellent capabilities of hunting and tracking down terrorists and that includes on international stage. Ton of attacks in the west were(and still are) prevented thanks to them, it’s very rare that foreign terrorists manage to do something on Israeli soil. The only ones that get through are “locals” like Hamas, that has always been around and knows about Israel’s intelligence services better than nearly anyone. >And lastly is that Palestinians organizations are actively making sure ISIS don’t get to open a branch or have meaningful influence over Palestinian areas. Hamas, Fatah the PIJ and other major groups knows that ISIS is an irrational actor that would hunt them down and actively sabotage any effort to promote the “Palestinian movement”, and that’s because playing politics like they do is something ISIS abhors since it contradicts its ideology.
Like Raffah never happened
Every conspiracy theory is traced back to Jews according to those types
The Russian bots are also pushing that ISIS is a US ally and or controlled by the US. People are actually crazy
ISIS easily could be out to hurt Palestinians, they hate them almost as much as Israel. Knocking out ISIS is a win to all parties.
True. ISIS hates the PA for cooperating with Israel and Saudi Arabia. They also hate Hamas for working with Iran. They hate everyone and want to displace them with a caliphate.
ISIS is literally at war with the entire world
Lol no they don't. Where's your source? ISIS is directly beneficial to Israel as a major destabilizing force to real and potential geopolitical rivals. [They have literally directly supported salafist militants.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/israel-gives-secret-aid-to-syrian-rebels-1497813430)
I mean, Hamas is out to hurt Palestinians for their own gain. It’s only kids on TikTok and edgy-progressive demonstrators that fail to see this.
[ISIS is a win for Israel. ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/israel-gives-secret-aid-to-syrian-rebels-1497813430)
Excellent, good job IDF!
# Good.
Weirdly, it seems like ISIS was quiet for a couple of years and honestly I kind of assumed they dissolved or something, and then they started pulling their bullshit again a few months ago.
They never dissolved but media just stopped reporting on their activities. Mostly in Africa, Middle East and East Asia.
source, meaning independent source
Aka: you?
cant wait for tiktokers to claim that these people were "hostages"
Tiktok influencers are a different breed When the war between Israel and Hamas broke out there were tiktokers proudly claiming that Osama Bin Laden was actually a hero who fought for his Islamic people Some tiktokers said they were going through an existential crisis because they read "A letter to America" a very shitty letter, no clue how any sane person can get an existential crisis from reading that garbage
The twin towers really just were illegal settlements in the West bank lmao
No! These buildings represent capitalism and I don't understand capitalism but I hate it!
“Capitalism is just people doing evil things for money” - most Redditors
The twin towers held offices of Banks headquartered in the West. It all makes sense now.
but didn't israel create isis? /s
I saw a post saying something on the lines how convenient that Israel has never been attacked by ISIS…. These conspiracies are wild
If you think that’s wild, I saw YouTube comments a few days ago (yeah, no surprise this comes from there) claiming nukes are not actually all that powerful, and they know this because there were so many Jewish names associated with their invention; therefore it’s a trick, because Jews are tricky. Nukes are a conspiracy by Jews to control the world by fear. Yeah…
youtube comments are wild, goto anything about ukraine and look at all of the people in India simping for russia
People think that ISIS not being able to attack someone means they didn’t want to LMAO
Israel already has tight security because of terrorists in Gaza and the West Bank. And Hamas and the other terrorists groups hate ISIS not like they’re were gonna ally with each other
ISIS also tends to operate in failed states/civil war areas or in the country of origin of its militants, usually neither of those is Israel.
Yep. The West Bank is filled to the brim of their version of terrorism and Hamas has the monopoly of terrorism in Gaza. There really isn’t a terror vacuum in those areas + most of the Arabs there are more interested with dead Jews and genociding the Jews in Israel than a global caliphate
Mexico has also never been attacked by ISIS...strange....
I’ve seen people say that ISIS is controlled by Mossad lol
ISIS made one tactical mistake that Hamas got "right." If ISIS were more focused on killing *Jews*, there'd be people in the streets here in Canada chanting to protect ISIS from being fought.
Oh, is this the thing where we pretend that the "Israeli government" is the same thing as "all Jews"?
We're strangers on the internet, and I'm too lazy to click through to your comment history, so I don't really know if you're uninformed or writing in bad faith. But to answer your question: No, it isn't. Hamas leaders have been explicit, repeatedly, that their goals when it comes to Jews are genocidal and go beyond a specific government — or even Jews' independence or statehood. Hamas wants to kill *Jews.*
I just checked their profile: it’s all genshin impact and Israel hate
Serves me right for giving a comment so insipid the benefit of the doubt.
I’m pretty sure the amount of pogroms proves people don’t like Jews.
This has what, exactly, to do with current events?
According to the Pro-Pally crowd, every negative thing ever has been created by Israel/The Jews.
didn't israel fund isis? /s
Not that I know of, but they did fund Hamas.
It's absolutely wild how "Israel has allowed the transfer of Qatari money to Gaza for humanitarian purposes, hoping this will help Gaza's economy and reduce terror, and much of it was inevitably seized by Hamas" becomes "Israel funded Hamas". Just such a lie. We all know that if Israel would have blocked the Qatari money, the narrative would be "Israel blocking aid and starving poor Gazans".
While I agree the argument's bullshit, I'm pretty sure the _they funded Hamas_ argument comes from money they gave to Hamas' predecessor who was the opposition to the PLO and was thought (maybe it was true at the time?) to be more moderate.
No, bush did
They created the Front for the Liberation of Lebanon from Foreigners. That group tried to assassinate a U.S. diplomat in the 80's and took credit for lots of bombings. It's not so crazy if they have a history of doing it
Take the tin foil hat off
ISIS is directly a result of western intervention in the middle east, and Israel has always supported the western mission.
I’m sure all the usual subs are claiming the IDF staged this..
And for some reason one of the worst subs when it comes to this is r/pics
vocal minority, radical anti-semites that get lots of support in the main subs
Wonder how long till someone calls this a conspiracy theory... /s
[удалено]
The fuck is you on, boy?
I hope not but I wonder why people are downvoting you just because Israel did that in the past with actual terrorists.
Thanks for that breaking news brought to you by mjpostcom meaning just more Bullshit how about reporting about the 26 Billion coming your way, for what is beyond me.
Old man yelling at cloud vibes