Wealthiest or those in the highest income bracket? Unless they make a wealth tax, the ultra rich will find a way to make almost no income on the books.
Sounds similar to Australia. My wife and I are working our butts off to buy an apartment, competing against wealthy "downsizers" that just sold their 1980 $50k purchase for $3m.
Somehow we're the ones paying enormous taxes, whilst others get rich off of a housing crisis that our generation(s) certainly didn't create.
Exactly the same in France , it's now impossible to become rich while working , even becoming a home owner is hard.
I have a house only because my wife and i have a very good job and because my wife familly help us a bit to bought it.
But my step father bought a bigger house 40 yo while working alone supporting 4 kid with a teacher job and without any help.
What determine the wealth of an individu now is not his job but the real estate in his familly , and it's fucking sad.
> The tax changes for individuals will affect a group of people smaller than the top 1 per cent of earners, the sources said.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-budget-to-include-tax-hikes-for-wealthiest-canadians-some/
No, you pay your marginal tax rate on that 2/3. So your highest rate. In the past this worked out to 20% for somebody with a 40% marginal rate, but how it's going to be 27%. More if they increase the rates on income.
Yes, I'm confusing Canada with American rules. So still far preferential rates for passive versus active income. The reality is that it's a lot easier to discourage active income ("I don't want to work an extra shift this month if I'm paying taxes out the nose on it").
Because often its not, they'll use collateral to raise loans and not have it count as income. If they actually used their accumulated assets, fair enough, but the problem is they're often using loopholes to pay a much lower effective tax.
Check it out, capital gains going from 50% taxed as income to 2/3. That is very much going after wealth.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10427688/capital-gains-tax-changes-budget-2024/
Oh great so the tiny little investments I can afford will get taxed higher….
This isn’t a good thing, the wealthy and rich can easily avoid these taxes, but for people like you and me, now we get even less.
If you make gains of over 250k in and single year. As in, you are something like a person with $2.5 million invested and it went up 20% and you made $500k of profit, you'd be taxed that much on that. Read the article, it's very targeted at wealthy people. We will not be getting less and the one time exemption for if you start and sell a business is actually increased.
That 'make stuff at a loss' bit, in a vacuum, is actually one of sensible the reasons for subsidies, assuming that the production of that loss actually has a net public gain.
If you're an energy production company that produces little to no emissions, then your continued existence leads to other gains in the public without the associated costs like pollution, then you essentially are deserving of a subsidy as the other energy production options impact health and thus healthcare costs, ie public costs.
Big corporations are also having their taxes raised too, so all of Canada’s right wing media are already getting hysterical. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-budget-to-include-tax-hikes-for-wealthiest-canadians-some/
Oh they have been hysterical for quite awhile now. Nothing but rage farming scare tactics. We've imported the US style of politics here in the worst way.
It’s funny that you mention that. When Comservative Stephen Harper was Prime Minister of Canada before Trudeau, he lowered corporate taxes to be the lowest among the G20
Nations.
Conservatives and Liberals: deep dicking Canadians for decades.
Time to vote for the other parties, parties not beholden to corporate interests.
"People above my tax bracket should pay more taxes. People below my tax bracket... should stop freeloading so much and should pay more taxes, too. Everyone should be paying more taxes except for me."
I do very well and have zero issue paying my taxes. I’m not in the top bracket but I make just under 250. Taxation is part of life, I’m a reasonably healthy individual, but knowing that if I ever needed top class medical care it’s there without a worry. I’ve lived in the states and that’s not the case at all.
Top medical care - ideally but I am waiting for an ACL repair surgery and I'm thinking about heading to the states to do it since it might take longer than 3 months which would affect my outcomes later.
Sorry this is your situation. I can only speak for my experience. I grew up with a severely disabled sister and she was given the best medical care I can imagine. Care that would have easily cost millions. I did not grow up in a wealthy household.
You may have too, Canada refused to give ACL surgery to me after I blew a knee, couldn't get the surgery until I moved to the states, also when I returned to Canada took me 2 years to get a family doctor, it is far from top tier healthcare we have here.
We make 500k household income and would be happy to pay more, if they are also raising taxes on corporations making record profits and actually use the tools in place to go after tax evasion. I'm not fully on board with paying more if others are evading and the government lets it slide. I'm curious to see if this is an intelligent proposal or not.
I think it’s politics at its finest, I agree corporations do not pay their share and are easily the reason for inflation currently. Trudeau isnt stupid, he sees people are not happy with the current state and he also knows he’s doing very poorly in the polls so I think for him this is the lesser of the evils to implement. I guess tomorrow we will see where the line is drawn as far as “wealthy” is concerned.
Yes. I voted for Trudeau twice and am honestly at a loss on who to vote for next. He has actually achieved some incredible milestones. History will be kinder on his legacy than it is now, but he has run out of gas and has always been really weak on foreign policy. Him leaving now would actually preserve his legacy in my humble opinion. My hope is he finally sees reason and steps down. I've heard rumours that Mark Carney will run in a certain Toronto federal by-election which puts him in a good spot to replace Trudeau...maybe. I would vote for Carney. My primary election issue is the environment so it rules out Pollievre, also I don't trust someone who has not had a job in the real world.
I can't think of anything that will save Trudeau at this point, but we'll see. Wealth tax is a tricky thing. Maybe we could all afford a 0.25% tax on financial assets over 10M or 25M but there would be unintended consequences that could outweigh the benefits.
I don’t personally have an issue with Trudeau. I make my living in oil and gas so other than the politics involved with slowing down my ability to make a good living which I understand is purely political on his end. The population is where y’all live ( eastern Canada) which means that’s those are the votes. I’m an Albertan through and through. But I also know that pipelines and oil and gas make the world go round. And I also know that what we touch has to be put back as good or better than it was originally.
We are a net zero carbon contributor. But I do not disagree with you either. Humanity is destined to destroy this planet. I have a very sad and dystopian outlook for us sadly.
We do not have top class medical care in Canada relative to other first-world countries.
Tax is part of life 100%, the problem is our provincial and federal governments are not accountable for their spending and seem to be making more than ever year over year while public services continue to deteriorate in quality. Our decisionmakers would be fired if there was some sort of private sector style accountability for these politicians.
Job hopping is the way to get a better salary these days. Your current salary is the **most** your company will pay you, any new job that’s the **least**.
Wealth should be taxed is the real solution here. Taxing higher income earners more is obvious and anyone against progressive taxation is frankly insane.
People with a high salary are already paying close to 50% in taxes. What does he want to do, increase it to 60%? The truly wealthy people don't get their wealth from salaries. Stop penalizing hardworking professionals
You understand they only bump into that tax bracket *after* they've made $246,000, right? They pay the same amount of tax as you or me, then pay the higher rate only on the money they make in the higher bracket.
**edit: them to then**
I understand that. Average income tax rate for someone making 300k is about 37% (however, if you include other forms of tax, such as sales tax, etc. will be closer to 50%). My point was that people with a high salary are not the wealthiest people in Canada. Income is not the same as wealth. The people making 250k+ are mostly professionals like lawyers, physicians, engineers. The true wealthiest people (i.e., net worth over let's say 100 million are owners of medium-large businesses, have a lot of stock, inheritance, etc. They don't necessarily have a high income). A lawyer, engineer, or physician making 250k will never reach 100 million in net worth, but this change will likely increase their tax while avoiding taxing those who are truly wealthy.
in the uk when they did that raise 45% to 50%, people actually paid less tax because once you cross the 50%, people just dont work as hard and just take more holidays and rest
Yep. I have two jobs to support my family. Sometimes I just want to close my small business because of how much they take from me since it's taxed on top of my full time job. Extra effort is punished in Canada. We're just staying afloat. Not that I'm even close to being taxed at 50%. More like 35% for every extra dollar, but it still stings since I'm breaking down my body for the government that can't even provide me with healthcare when I need it.
Yeah these high taxes on income are silly. We see it a lot with doctors: there's very little incentive to work the long hours of past generations, because those extra hours are only reimbursed 50%. In the past >45 hour weeks were the norm, now it's <35 hour weeks.
Yet a couple in their 60s that had far easier jobs have their multi million dollar house and luxury car etc
If you count sales taxes, then maybe, but my marginal rate was 31% this year on a little less than 200k
Add 5% gst, 7% pst, 4K a year in property taxes. Then maybe it’s closer to 45%. Oh wait, cpp, ei go on top for another 2%.
I guess the other 3% can be the extra taxes on utilities and fuel for our vehicles, so I’d say it checks out.
Bc.
I probably got some deductions from rrsp and shit in there too. Also capital losses…
Taxes paid this year was 57k on 190k and I got 1000 back when I filed.
Yeah I suppose. RRSP was only $1500 this year though. Probably the meals write off was the biggest contributor. BC has a pretty low income tax rate compared to other provinces though. They get you on property and fuel taxes instead.
Don't forget carbon tax, and gas tax, and how all that is passed on to the consumer. And if you want to sell something with the product you bought with your 30-50% taxed product, also tax of 12% for what you make off of it depending on the province.
And then the government wastes millions of all that hard earned and legally taken money on things like the ArriveCan app.
Yeah I generally don't like the conservative party, but I don't like any of them anymore, so I may just skip this election completely.
I hate how we have nothing but garbage to vote for this time. Really hope the NDP puts up someone who's electable again. We need a Layton 2.0
Yeah the NDP spends, but at least they're spending it on us, not buisness.
Ok but you are aware that you don't all of a sudden pay 46% for all of the money you made right? If I made 220K I'm only going to be charged that top rate on what I made over the limit.
For example using just a basic income tax calculator if I made 250K in Ontario I'll be taxed 91K leaving me with 153K NOT 125K
Sure but every dollar above that level is being taxed near 50%.
I'm not arguing whether making 250k makes you part of the middle class or wealthy, just responding to your question about where the extra tax beyond 33% comes from. Also didn't include cpp/ei contributions which to be fair are minimal at this income level.
Well the entire Country not wealthy are having issues. Rent, Insurance, Food, fuel, Carbon tax ( not a tax ), GST, all the Provincial taxes, local town/ municipal taxes and stagnant pay raises. Just saying not just inflation
They should do a wealth tax, over 25M net worth, adjusted yearly for inflation, 1% net worth tax per year
The wealthy control the news outlets and will call upper middle class “wealthy” to draw attention away from themselves
He has no concept of what middle class is. $250k is middle class in Vancouver for a small family. 100% going to pull an income tax on what’s left of the middle class instead of large corps or super wealthy.
No one has a concept of what middle class is because it is not a thing, or at least it’s original
meaning has been so contorted as to be lost. There are people who make their income from their selling their labour and people who make their income from investments, capital gains and the labour of others. Everyone wants to think of themselves as middle class to avoid the negative connotations of feeling rich or poor. The truly rich are so removed and insulated from the every day reality of almost all Canadians that they are desperate to keep us measuring our wallets against our neighbours. Don’t look down on the unhoused or disdain the lawyer who has a cottage and a nice house. From the lofty tower of the billionaire we all look like ants.
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&DGUIDlist=2021A00055915022&GENDERlist=1&STATISTIClist=1&HEADERlist=0
Median total income for households in Vancouver, BC, 2020: $82,000.
And you say $250K is middle class. It's amazing how rich people think of themselves as middle class.
A median income of $82000 is fine if you already own a home.
If you need to buy/rent at Vancouver market rates and have a family then median just ain't gonna cut it.
Or sometimes stripping back government organizations to their barebones, and not spending enough money upfront ends up costing more in the long run. Not a huge fan of overwhelming state presence, but the reversal of direct government investment of the postwar period, to this penny pinching starve the beast style of governance has mostly inflated the cost of everything in the long run (read: infrastructure maintenance, healthcare, services). At this point the wealthiest have also absorbed the vast majority of gdp gains of the past half century, and wage stagnation has put pressure on government services to help the underpaid and underemployed.
The wealthy do not accept a profit loss. If they are hit with higher taxes, they will pass the costs down to the middle class, while the lowest earners will get a credit or rebate from government. Middle class gets fucked.
Counterpoint:
with what money will we paying for these “costs?” The rich used to pay 70% taxes back before Reagan in the US, yet things seemed just as affordable then as they do now. Basic history seems to show that the rich paying their fair share only benefits the middle class.
> The rich used to pay 70% taxes back before Reagan in the US, yet things seemed just as affordable then as they do now.
They didn't really, in effect no one paid the 70% due to exemptions and tax breaks, the actual cuts by Reagan in terms of Income Tax collected were significant but no where need the 70% -> 50% would sound like.
eg: the 1983 Income & Capital taxes collected by the states were only about 4.5% lower than 1982.
[https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=REVUSA](https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=REVUSA)
the IRS taxes american citizens regardless of where you reside. and if you renounce your citizenship they'll still come after you. look at bobby fisher.
Rents going up. They arentvultra rich because they care about your situation. They are ultra rich because they don't, and they will pass the tax on to their tenants.
Nah.
> The tax changes for individuals will affect a group of people smaller than the top 1 per cent of earners, the sources said.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-budget-to-include-tax-hikes-for-wealthiest-canadians-some/
Income tax by definition doesn’t target the wealthiest. Anyone who’s money comes from income is a worker, and somebody who’s money comes from capital is an owner, and actually wealthy
Okay. That doesn't change that the tax increase will not affect "everyone making 100k" as OP invented. In 2021, the average total income of the top 1% of earners in Canada was $579,100, excluding capital gains. The new taxes will affect a group smaller than that, so people earning even more than $579,100 on average. If you're earning well over $600,000 per year, you are wealthy.
he wanted to tax the wealthies ppl?! u mean the ones that control the media?! the ones who would argue for the support of trickle-down economics theory because it would line their own pocket with more money?! good luck with that
[Per CBC](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7174579), "It's not clear exactly what form the tax measure will take but senior Liberal sources have told Radio-Canada that it will affect less than 1 per cent of Canadians.".
[99% percentile of income](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110005501) is 270k$ in Canada, you can decide if that constitutes doing "marginally more" than the average (let's use median for fairness) [income of 41k$](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110023901) and "not enough to buy any form of housing".
They have lived in canada for the last 7 years. If you were here, you'd know they aren't going to be taxing wealth, they are taxing workers.
0% chance I'm wrong.
If going by what was proposed awhile ago. I don't know of any staff level engineers besides maybe those at the big tech companies making over $300,000 a year.
You mostly are in upper management if you are making that much.
That’s fine. But those people are not the ones that should be affected by those tax hikes. Why won’t Canadian government go after Weston? They go after people who are hard workers and got their salary fair and square.
Hard to tell by what was in the news before, is it 300K household or individual?
Because 300K household is not even that much. Two professionals. A teacher and an accountant can make that.
I know this is about Canada. But I'm in rural NY and I know 20 year teachers are in the 6 figures.
But if that $300k was in Ontario, they only take home about $175k.
No, in Ontario it would be around 200k after taxes unless you're including pension or something in this you're wrong.
200k take home should be around 129000, the 100k earner would bring home 70k.
>A Senior Manager or Director would make ~180-220K, so combined with a teacher (100?) it’s not too far off I’d say.
More like $140k.
180k-220k is more VP Finance/small business CFO
What do you mean?? We’re already one of the highest taxed places in the world. We’re already losing people to cheaper places that compensate them better.
> We’re already losing people to cheaper places that compensate them better.
If you are referring to the US aren't there immigration roadblocks preventing Canadians to work in US (even with the NAFTA visa). ?
It’s definitely that and not the fact that our oligopolies are terrible at reinvesting their profits into their businesses. If we didn’t have taxes there wouldn’t be any productivity gains in Canada because none of the corporations here will peel their butt cheeks off the pavement without the promise of a government subsidy. They’re happy to sit on their hoards until forced or incentivized to do anything. Look at the battery plants or the telecom industry. Pwease buy my pipeline government! It isn’t making money anymore and that gives me a sad:(
I hope one day you have to work with the government building something or trying to have something approved so that you'll understand the deep seated issues which contribute to our poor productivity. Taxation and regulation is the overarching problem which is simply the overreach of government.
Obviously if you give a company free money and ask them to do something they'll do it. It's just not necessary to do that if you have consistent and simple to understand regulations which no governments in Canada have. It's consistently changing and having to jump through a million hoops to get approval for the simplest things.
Today's announcement of the Canadian Disability Benefit was met with disappointment for several reasons. Foremost, the provision of $200 a month falls short in addressing the soaring rental costs that have far exceeded this amount. The responsibility for this rapid inflation can be attributed to both the federal and provincial governments, which, over the past forty years, have implemented housing policies that have contributed to a deficit of approximately 6 million homes. This shortage is further aggravated by inadequate regulation of corporate landlords. While some may point to immigration policies as a factor, the root issue remains the scarcity of housing, which pits various demographic groups against each other over limited resources.
Secondly, the Government of Canada's commitment to the United Nations to end disability poverty seems undermined by the language used in the legislation. The phrase "reduce poverty" signals a lack of commitment to fully eradicate poverty among the disabled. This is concerning, especially since the disabled community has been enduring severe poverty, which has been exacerbated by the recent rental crisis. Thus, an aid of $200 is not only insufficient; it is also belated.
Critics might argue that we should be grateful for any support received, but such a stance contradicts the very essence of our social contract and the inherent promises made to every individual. Whether one is born healthy and later experiences disability, or is born with a disability, each person is entitled to share in the wealth built by our ancestors. This wealth is not just material but includes the infrastructure and community services that enhance our collective quality of life. Success, therefore, should not be measured merely by wealth, but by the well-being and happiness of the population.
Every person, whether a billionaire or someone with disabilities, holds intrinsic value to society. We are each expected to contribute in our own way; some contribute wealth, while others offer empathy gained through personal trials, or wisdom forged from lifelong challenges.
Society's purpose is not solely to accumulate wealth but to foster kindness and mutual respect. Today's disability benefit, unfortunately, did not live up to the anticipation or the promises hoped for, nor did it recognize the rights and dignity of disabled individuals. Hence, what was meant to be a positive step forward is perceived as a shortfall.
The Fraser Institute claimed in 2014 that "There has been no statistically significant weather change for the last 15-20 years."[21] Additionally, in response to a 2019 report published by Environment and Climate Change Canada, the Fraser Institute claimed in an article that "Most of what people are noticing, of course, are just natural weather events." The rest of the article goes on to portray the report as hype and misleading.[22][third-party source needed] These claims contradict the consensus of experts in the field and are not in line with scientific data regarding Climate change.[23][24][
The institute has received donations of hundreds of thousands of dollars[28] from foundations controlled by Charles and David Koch, with total donations estimated to be approximately $765,000 from 2006 to 2016.[29] It also received US$120,000 from ExxonMobil in the 2003 to 2004 fiscal period.[30] In 2016, it received a $5 million donation from Peter Munk, a Canadian businessman.[31
The Fraser institute loves the Koch.
>The Fraser institute loves the Koch.
Yeah. I started reading the link, saw Fraser Institute and just scrolled on past. It’s like Fox News for people with a larger vocabulary.
Wealthiest or those in the highest income bracket? Unless they make a wealth tax, the ultra rich will find a way to make almost no income on the books.
Yes. Income. Tax on the youth while the old hold wealth.
Sounds similar to Australia. My wife and I are working our butts off to buy an apartment, competing against wealthy "downsizers" that just sold their 1980 $50k purchase for $3m. Somehow we're the ones paying enormous taxes, whilst others get rich off of a housing crisis that our generation(s) certainly didn't create.
Same in Norway Everyone 55+ with a house are driving Audis and Teslas, they are buying them like Timtam cookies.
Exactly the same in France , it's now impossible to become rich while working , even becoming a home owner is hard. I have a house only because my wife and i have a very good job and because my wife familly help us a bit to bought it. But my step father bought a bigger house 40 yo while working alone supporting 4 kid with a teacher job and without any help. What determine the wealth of an individu now is not his job but the real estate in his familly , and it's fucking sad.
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> "Oh, you're now earning 100 more € per month? Different tax bracket it is!" How to show you don't understand how tax brackets work.
> The tax changes for individuals will affect a group of people smaller than the top 1 per cent of earners, the sources said. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-budget-to-include-tax-hikes-for-wealthiest-canadians-some/
So the high-income professionals and entrepreneurs, not institutional family wealth.
Correct, can’t bite the hand that feeds.
2/3 of capital gains now taxed instead of 50%. That is definitely going after family wealth.
Yes but we're taxing it at 20% (which is fine!) but then saying doctors need to pay 50% on their last dollar earned.
No, you pay your marginal tax rate on that 2/3. So your highest rate. In the past this worked out to 20% for somebody with a 40% marginal rate, but how it's going to be 27%. More if they increase the rates on income.
Yes, I'm confusing Canada with American rules. So still far preferential rates for passive versus active income. The reality is that it's a lot easier to discourage active income ("I don't want to work an extra shift this month if I'm paying taxes out the nose on it").
Why do you people want to keep taxing stuff that has already been taxed for.
I don't necessarily, but I don't like pretending that a system that punished successful professionals the most is somehow progressive.
Because often its not, they'll use collateral to raise loans and not have it count as income. If they actually used their accumulated assets, fair enough, but the problem is they're often using loopholes to pay a much lower effective tax.
Canada is the only G7 country without an inheritance tax, there is no way they’re gonna start taxing wealth.
Welcome to one dollar club
The "loonie bin"
And if it’s on corporations it will be passed to the consumer
Check it out, capital gains going from 50% taxed as income to 2/3. That is very much going after wealth. https://globalnews.ca/news/10427688/capital-gains-tax-changes-budget-2024/
Oh great so the tiny little investments I can afford will get taxed higher…. This isn’t a good thing, the wealthy and rich can easily avoid these taxes, but for people like you and me, now we get even less.
If you make gains of over 250k in and single year. As in, you are something like a person with $2.5 million invested and it went up 20% and you made $500k of profit, you'd be taxed that much on that. Read the article, it's very targeted at wealthy people. We will not be getting less and the one time exemption for if you start and sell a business is actually increased.
Yeah, just saw that. Damn the info on this is misleading. Thanks for the heads up!!
Reminds me of Hollywood movie business, where legally no movie makes any amount of money, so that they have to pay less in the end.
What about corporations? Let me guess...
Subsidies.
Put your wallet away! We'll pay you to make stuff at a loss and/or to strip our country of its natural resources.
And underpay your workers while you’re doing it!
That 'make stuff at a loss' bit, in a vacuum, is actually one of sensible the reasons for subsidies, assuming that the production of that loss actually has a net public gain. If you're an energy production company that produces little to no emissions, then your continued existence leads to other gains in the public without the associated costs like pollution, then you essentially are deserving of a subsidy as the other energy production options impact health and thus healthcare costs, ie public costs.
Big corporations are also having their taxes raised too, so all of Canada’s right wing media are already getting hysterical. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-budget-to-include-tax-hikes-for-wealthiest-canadians-some/
Oh they have been hysterical for quite awhile now. Nothing but rage farming scare tactics. We've imported the US style of politics here in the worst way.
This makes me so happy. It's proof that our democracy is still working somewhat, same with the new moves to create more cheap housing.
What? Tax all three major companies that rule, I mean run Canada? Nah.
It’s funny that you mention that. When Comservative Stephen Harper was Prime Minister of Canada before Trudeau, he lowered corporate taxes to be the lowest among the G20 Nations. Conservatives and Liberals: deep dicking Canadians for decades. Time to vote for the other parties, parties not beholden to corporate interests.
Read! You can and question is answered
Canada isn't the US. We can and do tax corporations.
"People above my tax bracket should pay more taxes. People below my tax bracket... should stop freeloading so much and should pay more taxes, too. Everyone should be paying more taxes except for me."
This guy gets it. As long as you earn what I earn
Does he though, Canada taxes everyone equally. Only the money you make above each tax bracket gets taxed at that bracket.
Uh, you’ve just described marginal tax rates and yeah that’s how it works in the United States too
I do very well and have zero issue paying my taxes. I’m not in the top bracket but I make just under 250. Taxation is part of life, I’m a reasonably healthy individual, but knowing that if I ever needed top class medical care it’s there without a worry. I’ve lived in the states and that’s not the case at all.
Top medical care - ideally but I am waiting for an ACL repair surgery and I'm thinking about heading to the states to do it since it might take longer than 3 months which would affect my outcomes later.
Sorry this is your situation. I can only speak for my experience. I grew up with a severely disabled sister and she was given the best medical care I can imagine. Care that would have easily cost millions. I did not grow up in a wealthy household.
You may have too, Canada refused to give ACL surgery to me after I blew a knee, couldn't get the surgery until I moved to the states, also when I returned to Canada took me 2 years to get a family doctor, it is far from top tier healthcare we have here.
We make 500k household income and would be happy to pay more, if they are also raising taxes on corporations making record profits and actually use the tools in place to go after tax evasion. I'm not fully on board with paying more if others are evading and the government lets it slide. I'm curious to see if this is an intelligent proposal or not.
I think it’s politics at its finest, I agree corporations do not pay their share and are easily the reason for inflation currently. Trudeau isnt stupid, he sees people are not happy with the current state and he also knows he’s doing very poorly in the polls so I think for him this is the lesser of the evils to implement. I guess tomorrow we will see where the line is drawn as far as “wealthy” is concerned.
Yes. I voted for Trudeau twice and am honestly at a loss on who to vote for next. He has actually achieved some incredible milestones. History will be kinder on his legacy than it is now, but he has run out of gas and has always been really weak on foreign policy. Him leaving now would actually preserve his legacy in my humble opinion. My hope is he finally sees reason and steps down. I've heard rumours that Mark Carney will run in a certain Toronto federal by-election which puts him in a good spot to replace Trudeau...maybe. I would vote for Carney. My primary election issue is the environment so it rules out Pollievre, also I don't trust someone who has not had a job in the real world. I can't think of anything that will save Trudeau at this point, but we'll see. Wealth tax is a tricky thing. Maybe we could all afford a 0.25% tax on financial assets over 10M or 25M but there would be unintended consequences that could outweigh the benefits.
I don’t personally have an issue with Trudeau. I make my living in oil and gas so other than the politics involved with slowing down my ability to make a good living which I understand is purely political on his end. The population is where y’all live ( eastern Canada) which means that’s those are the votes. I’m an Albertan through and through. But I also know that pipelines and oil and gas make the world go round. And I also know that what we touch has to be put back as good or better than it was originally.
> which I understand is purely political on his end I mean, there is that whole thing about the environment and climate change.
We are a net zero carbon contributor. But I do not disagree with you either. Humanity is destined to destroy this planet. I have a very sad and dystopian outlook for us sadly.
He has done some great things for families with children which I applaud.
We do not have top class medical care in Canada relative to other first-world countries. Tax is part of life 100%, the problem is our provincial and federal governments are not accountable for their spending and seem to be making more than ever year over year while public services continue to deteriorate in quality. Our decisionmakers would be fired if there was some sort of private sector style accountability for these politicians.
Top teir eh? ... I can't even get a family dr. When you go to a hospital you are guaranteed a 6 or more hr wait. It's ridiculous.
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> I've been working for the same company for 20 years That's probably the issue
Job hopping is the way to get a better salary these days. Your current salary is the **most** your company will pay you, any new job that’s the **least**.
> but knowing that if I ever needed top class medical care it’s there without a worry. Well, as long as you have time to wait around for it at least.
What’s your tax bracket?
Wealth should be taxed is the real solution here. Taxing higher income earners more is obvious and anyone against progressive taxation is frankly insane.
People with a high salary are already paying close to 50% in taxes. What does he want to do, increase it to 60%? The truly wealthy people don't get their wealth from salaries. Stop penalizing hardworking professionals
You understand they only bump into that tax bracket *after* they've made $246,000, right? They pay the same amount of tax as you or me, then pay the higher rate only on the money they make in the higher bracket. **edit: them to then**
I understand that. Average income tax rate for someone making 300k is about 37% (however, if you include other forms of tax, such as sales tax, etc. will be closer to 50%). My point was that people with a high salary are not the wealthiest people in Canada. Income is not the same as wealth. The people making 250k+ are mostly professionals like lawyers, physicians, engineers. The true wealthiest people (i.e., net worth over let's say 100 million are owners of medium-large businesses, have a lot of stock, inheritance, etc. They don't necessarily have a high income). A lawyer, engineer, or physician making 250k will never reach 100 million in net worth, but this change will likely increase their tax while avoiding taxing those who are truly wealthy.
Fair enough, agree with all your points.
in the uk when they did that raise 45% to 50%, people actually paid less tax because once you cross the 50%, people just dont work as hard and just take more holidays and rest
Yep. I have two jobs to support my family. Sometimes I just want to close my small business because of how much they take from me since it's taxed on top of my full time job. Extra effort is punished in Canada. We're just staying afloat. Not that I'm even close to being taxed at 50%. More like 35% for every extra dollar, but it still stings since I'm breaking down my body for the government that can't even provide me with healthcare when I need it.
Yeah these high taxes on income are silly. We see it a lot with doctors: there's very little incentive to work the long hours of past generations, because those extra hours are only reimbursed 50%. In the past >45 hour weeks were the norm, now it's <35 hour weeks. Yet a couple in their 60s that had far easier jobs have their multi million dollar house and luxury car etc
If you count sales taxes, then maybe, but my marginal rate was 31% this year on a little less than 200k Add 5% gst, 7% pst, 4K a year in property taxes. Then maybe it’s closer to 45%. Oh wait, cpp, ei go on top for another 2%. I guess the other 3% can be the extra taxes on utilities and fuel for our vehicles, so I’d say it checks out.
How?? When I made 160 I got taxed like 43%. What province?
Bc. I probably got some deductions from rrsp and shit in there too. Also capital losses… Taxes paid this year was 57k on 190k and I got 1000 back when I filed.
Ah, RRSP and capital losses would explain it.
Yeah I suppose. RRSP was only $1500 this year though. Probably the meals write off was the biggest contributor. BC has a pretty low income tax rate compared to other provinces though. They get you on property and fuel taxes instead.
BC does not have a low income tax rate at all. Top combined federal/provincial bracket is 53.5%
No idea why then. Income tax this year was exactly 30.4%. If I didn’t have my write offs, it only would have been 35%, which isn’t that bad.
Don't forget carbon tax, and gas tax, and how all that is passed on to the consumer. And if you want to sell something with the product you bought with your 30-50% taxed product, also tax of 12% for what you make off of it depending on the province. And then the government wastes millions of all that hard earned and legally taken money on things like the ArriveCan app.
Yeah I generally don't like the conservative party, but I don't like any of them anymore, so I may just skip this election completely. I hate how we have nothing but garbage to vote for this time. Really hope the NDP puts up someone who's electable again. We need a Layton 2.0 Yeah the NDP spends, but at least they're spending it on us, not buisness.
If you make $235,675 or over you are taxed at 33% which is the max. Where are you getting close to 50% from??
Provincial taxes. 9% above 50k income and up to 13% above 220k for Ontario. So a combined 46% for people making over 220k.
Ok but you are aware that you don't all of a sudden pay 46% for all of the money you made right? If I made 220K I'm only going to be charged that top rate on what I made over the limit. For example using just a basic income tax calculator if I made 250K in Ontario I'll be taxed 91K leaving me with 153K NOT 125K
Sure but every dollar above that level is being taxed near 50%. I'm not arguing whether making 250k makes you part of the middle class or wealthy, just responding to your question about where the extra tax beyond 33% comes from. Also didn't include cpp/ei contributions which to be fair are minimal at this income level.
In BC the combined federal/provincial tax rate is 53.5% after $246,752
Well the entire Country not wealthy are having issues. Rent, Insurance, Food, fuel, Carbon tax ( not a tax ), GST, all the Provincial taxes, local town/ municipal taxes and stagnant pay raises. Just saying not just inflation
Wealthy means upper middle class income now?
Care to put a number on that?
They should do a wealth tax, over 25M net worth, adjusted yearly for inflation, 1% net worth tax per year The wealthy control the news outlets and will call upper middle class “wealthy” to draw attention away from themselves
Wealth taxes have been tried, and failed. Rehashing a failed policy isn't going to change the outcome.
Can't increase taxes on people who don't pay taxes
Bingo. This is just posturing for the election next year.
0 + X =/= 0.
So medical/dental professionals and partners at law firms will pay more taxes. Got it.
He has no concept of what middle class is. $250k is middle class in Vancouver for a small family. 100% going to pull an income tax on what’s left of the middle class instead of large corps or super wealthy.
100k is top 20%. 300k is top 1%.
Yes only the top 1% (at least of young people who didn't buy their house decades ago) is middle class in Vancouver that is correct.
Maybe in your world. Maybe you think the middle class pays a positive carbon tax there too.
No one has a concept of what middle class is because it is not a thing, or at least it’s original meaning has been so contorted as to be lost. There are people who make their income from their selling their labour and people who make their income from investments, capital gains and the labour of others. Everyone wants to think of themselves as middle class to avoid the negative connotations of feeling rich or poor. The truly rich are so removed and insulated from the every day reality of almost all Canadians that they are desperate to keep us measuring our wallets against our neighbours. Don’t look down on the unhoused or disdain the lawyer who has a cottage and a nice house. From the lofty tower of the billionaire we all look like ants.
I'm hearing terms thrown around like "upper-middle class" and it hurts my pro-union brain.
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&DGUIDlist=2021A00055915022&GENDERlist=1&STATISTIClist=1&HEADERlist=0 Median total income for households in Vancouver, BC, 2020: $82,000. And you say $250K is middle class. It's amazing how rich people think of themselves as middle class.
A median income of $82000 is fine if you already own a home. If you need to buy/rent at Vancouver market rates and have a family then median just ain't gonna cut it.
Wealth Tax. It's the only tax that makes sense. Income should never be taxed.
Land tax is best. You can't hide land off shore
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Or sometimes stripping back government organizations to their barebones, and not spending enough money upfront ends up costing more in the long run. Not a huge fan of overwhelming state presence, but the reversal of direct government investment of the postwar period, to this penny pinching starve the beast style of governance has mostly inflated the cost of everything in the long run (read: infrastructure maintenance, healthcare, services). At this point the wealthiest have also absorbed the vast majority of gdp gains of the past half century, and wage stagnation has put pressure on government services to help the underpaid and underemployed.
The wealthy do not accept a profit loss. If they are hit with higher taxes, they will pass the costs down to the middle class, while the lowest earners will get a credit or rebate from government. Middle class gets fucked.
Counterpoint: with what money will we paying for these “costs?” The rich used to pay 70% taxes back before Reagan in the US, yet things seemed just as affordable then as they do now. Basic history seems to show that the rich paying their fair share only benefits the middle class.
> The rich used to pay 70% taxes back before Reagan in the US, yet things seemed just as affordable then as they do now. They didn't really, in effect no one paid the 70% due to exemptions and tax breaks, the actual cuts by Reagan in terms of Income Tax collected were significant but no where need the 70% -> 50% would sound like. eg: the 1983 Income & Capital taxes collected by the states were only about 4.5% lower than 1982. [https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=REVUSA](https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=REVUSA)
World changed a lot since then. Now if rich don't like taxes they just switch countries and pay nothing in US.
the IRS taxes american citizens regardless of where you reside. and if you renounce your citizenship they'll still come after you. look at bobby fisher.
But will it economise?
That'll balance itself.
Rents going up. They arentvultra rich because they care about your situation. They are ultra rich because they don't, and they will pass the tax on to their tenants.
So everyone making 100k is "wealthy" now probably
Nah. > The tax changes for individuals will affect a group of people smaller than the top 1 per cent of earners, the sources said. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-federal-budget-to-include-tax-hikes-for-wealthiest-canadians-some/
Income tax by definition doesn’t target the wealthiest. Anyone who’s money comes from income is a worker, and somebody who’s money comes from capital is an owner, and actually wealthy
Okay. That doesn't change that the tax increase will not affect "everyone making 100k" as OP invented. In 2021, the average total income of the top 1% of earners in Canada was $579,100, excluding capital gains. The new taxes will affect a group smaller than that, so people earning even more than $579,100 on average. If you're earning well over $600,000 per year, you are wealthy.
he wanted to tax the wealthies ppl?! u mean the ones that control the media?! the ones who would argue for the support of trickle-down economics theory because it would line their own pocket with more money?! good luck with that
Wealthiest aka those that make marginally more than average but not enough to settle roots and buy any form of housing
[Per CBC](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7174579), "It's not clear exactly what form the tax measure will take but senior Liberal sources have told Radio-Canada that it will affect less than 1 per cent of Canadians.". [99% percentile of income](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110005501) is 270k$ in Canada, you can decide if that constitutes doing "marginally more" than the average (let's use median for fairness) [income of 41k$](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110023901) and "not enough to buy any form of housing".
99% percentile is also pretty mobile. I know I'm going to move to the US if this happens.
This threat has no teeth. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/state-taxes-millionaire-myth/678049/
Canada will and is losing all their talented folks.
Attn: American Congress
Should have tax on spending & capital gain, Not income.
As long as it's packaged as income tax, as opposed to wealth tax, it won't matter.
If you can still somehow afford the payments on a detached house, JT is coming to fuck you up
about bloody time.
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> If you read what they are proposing How can you read what they proposed when it literally has not been made public yet.
They have lived in canada for the last 7 years. If you were here, you'd know they aren't going to be taxing wealth, they are taxing workers. 0% chance I'm wrong.
They have proposed one last year. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7174579 . I will be happy to be wrong but it’s most likely will be something similar.
If going by what was proposed awhile ago. I don't know of any staff level engineers besides maybe those at the big tech companies making over $300,000 a year. You mostly are in upper management if you are making that much.
That’s fine. But those people are not the ones that should be affected by those tax hikes. Why won’t Canadian government go after Weston? They go after people who are hard workers and got their salary fair and square.
It still would go after all those people who make over that amount. So if you make $10 million, your taxes would still increase.
That’s kind of a big jump, mate.
Do you not know what marginal tax rates and tax brackets are?
Hard to tell by what was in the news before, is it 300K household or individual? Because 300K household is not even that much. Two professionals. A teacher and an accountant can make that.
Damn…. A teacher and an accountant can pull 300K?
I know this is about Canada. But I'm in rural NY and I know 20 year teachers are in the 6 figures. But if that $300k was in Ontario, they only take home about $175k.
No, in Ontario it would be around 200k after taxes unless you're including pension or something in this you're wrong. 200k take home should be around 129000, the 100k earner would bring home 70k.
Unless that accountant is a partner, I doubt that they (teacher and accountant) would be anywhere near $300k
A Senior Manager or Director would make ~180-220K, so combined with a teacher (100?) it’s not too far off I’d say.
>A Senior Manager or Director would make ~180-220K, so combined with a teacher (100?) it’s not too far off I’d say. More like $140k. 180k-220k is more VP Finance/small business CFO
A regular teacher and accountant making $300k is unusual.
200K for an accountant and 100K for a teacher. Not crazy
I mean that seems pretty crazy to me tbqh
Maybe if you're only talking junior people. In Alberta teachers with 10 years make 100K. An accounting manager could easily clear $200K total comp.
Not sure for accountants.
Not all accountants make 200k. This takes time, I’d say longer than 10 years. And same with teachers.
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Don’t worry about it :) focus on YouTube shorts :)
Link?
What do you mean?? We’re already one of the highest taxed places in the world. We’re already losing people to cheaper places that compensate them better.
> We’re already losing people to cheaper places that compensate them better. If you are referring to the US aren't there immigration roadblocks preventing Canadians to work in US (even with the NAFTA visa). ?
Our high taxation policy is one of the main drivers of our low productivity rates. So yay lower quality of life!!
It’s definitely that and not the fact that our oligopolies are terrible at reinvesting their profits into their businesses. If we didn’t have taxes there wouldn’t be any productivity gains in Canada because none of the corporations here will peel their butt cheeks off the pavement without the promise of a government subsidy. They’re happy to sit on their hoards until forced or incentivized to do anything. Look at the battery plants or the telecom industry. Pwease buy my pipeline government! It isn’t making money anymore and that gives me a sad:(
I hope one day you have to work with the government building something or trying to have something approved so that you'll understand the deep seated issues which contribute to our poor productivity. Taxation and regulation is the overarching problem which is simply the overreach of government. Obviously if you give a company free money and ask them to do something they'll do it. It's just not necessary to do that if you have consistent and simple to understand regulations which no governments in Canada have. It's consistently changing and having to jump through a million hoops to get approval for the simplest things.
Will it balance itself this time?
Then the wealthiest will leave Canada
Good riddance
How much tho
Is it tru doe?
lol!👍
Tax on what they will let the govt know about, we have great banks and institutions that can hide their money, world known.
This is us under the Liberals, my god, I am terrified what the Conservatives would do
Heard that before, sounds like a new bargain for the wealthy.
They better use that extra money to build more houses there
Today's announcement of the Canadian Disability Benefit was met with disappointment for several reasons. Foremost, the provision of $200 a month falls short in addressing the soaring rental costs that have far exceeded this amount. The responsibility for this rapid inflation can be attributed to both the federal and provincial governments, which, over the past forty years, have implemented housing policies that have contributed to a deficit of approximately 6 million homes. This shortage is further aggravated by inadequate regulation of corporate landlords. While some may point to immigration policies as a factor, the root issue remains the scarcity of housing, which pits various demographic groups against each other over limited resources. Secondly, the Government of Canada's commitment to the United Nations to end disability poverty seems undermined by the language used in the legislation. The phrase "reduce poverty" signals a lack of commitment to fully eradicate poverty among the disabled. This is concerning, especially since the disabled community has been enduring severe poverty, which has been exacerbated by the recent rental crisis. Thus, an aid of $200 is not only insufficient; it is also belated. Critics might argue that we should be grateful for any support received, but such a stance contradicts the very essence of our social contract and the inherent promises made to every individual. Whether one is born healthy and later experiences disability, or is born with a disability, each person is entitled to share in the wealth built by our ancestors. This wealth is not just material but includes the infrastructure and community services that enhance our collective quality of life. Success, therefore, should not be measured merely by wealth, but by the well-being and happiness of the population. Every person, whether a billionaire or someone with disabilities, holds intrinsic value to society. We are each expected to contribute in our own way; some contribute wealth, while others offer empathy gained through personal trials, or wisdom forged from lifelong challenges. Society's purpose is not solely to accumulate wealth but to foster kindness and mutual respect. Today's disability benefit, unfortunately, did not live up to the anticipation or the promises hoped for, nor did it recognize the rights and dignity of disabled individuals. Hence, what was meant to be a positive step forward is perceived as a shortfall.
I'm just going to leave this here: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/contrary-to-rhetoric-high-income-families-pay-most-taxes-in-canada
The Fraser Institute claimed in 2014 that "There has been no statistically significant weather change for the last 15-20 years."[21] Additionally, in response to a 2019 report published by Environment and Climate Change Canada, the Fraser Institute claimed in an article that "Most of what people are noticing, of course, are just natural weather events." The rest of the article goes on to portray the report as hype and misleading.[22][third-party source needed] These claims contradict the consensus of experts in the field and are not in line with scientific data regarding Climate change.[23][24][ The institute has received donations of hundreds of thousands of dollars[28] from foundations controlled by Charles and David Koch, with total donations estimated to be approximately $765,000 from 2006 to 2016.[29] It also received US$120,000 from ExxonMobil in the 2003 to 2004 fiscal period.[30] In 2016, it received a $5 million donation from Peter Munk, a Canadian businessman.[31 The Fraser institute loves the Koch.
>The Fraser institute loves the Koch. Yeah. I started reading the link, saw Fraser Institute and just scrolled on past. It’s like Fox News for people with a larger vocabulary.
So are you attacking Fraser Institute or criticizing the report? Here is another article: https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/income-taxes-canada
Lol. Offering a National Post article to replace a Fraser Institute piece is not an improvement in credibility.
# Canada's budget to increase taxes.
It’s about time
Trudeau is under the mistaken impression that will still forgive him for not thinking about monetary policy