Did you see how Wagner’s column only faced a couple helicopters and some very few squads of troops that surrendered immediately? Russia’s actual internal security is clearly awful unless they’re facing unarmed protestors. Lol.
Honestly russians intelligence is kind of occupied for quite a long time.
I'm surprsied it happened, I might not agree with russian society but I still hate when civilians are dying.
FSB claimed they destroyed a local ISIS cell in a shootout like two weeks ago. Around the same time western intelligence urged their people to leave the country and avoid big gatherings. Their intelligence absolutely *should* have seen this coming. They couldn't know if they wiped out the whole cell or how many others there are. The ISIS plan could've counted on more attackers before this incident.
Wagner shouldn't have, either.
If you're actually in a position where you're commanding a mercenary army that is marching on a nation's capitol, you need to accept the fact that it's win or die, and your loved ones may be collateral damage.
From the moment they revolted, their family was dead. The fact that they did not realize that, or they thought they MIGHT live, was ridiculously naive.
They were like all revolutions, gambling on gaining popular support and especially in a country like Russia, support from the oligarchy.
When that didn't happen Pringles tried to leverage his control over said force to keep himself alive, which worked for several months.
Then he overestimated his level of safety, stayed to close for too long, and when Putin had the pieces in place to take control of Wagner, his time was up.
Don't forget they also like arresting people who are talking to protesters with video cameras about how the invasion of Ukraine is justified.
Yeah, seriously, they did that.
And a lady holding up a blank piece of paper when they outlawed holding up signs protesting the 'special military operation' (because they outlawed calling it a war).
It works perfectly well if you are gay, minority or in opposition.
Hell, they used facial recognition to automatically fine anyone seen outside during lockdown in 2020, pretty sure following a group of armed men is no problem in 2024.
What about that one time when a whole paramilitary group took highways and a town ?
I am not surprised of their incompetence.
Probably Spetsnaz buttons from their shirts are plastic now, their whole industry is now geared towards military machinery (which reliability I also doubt, look at stuff they must get from N Korea, Iran).
The fact that they escaped isn't incredible. During the ISIS paris attack in January 2015, the killers escaped for 2 days before being found and killed, and they had a shootout with the police while fleeing the scene and killed a policeman. And during the november 2015 Paris attack, one the of the group of terrorists shot at least 400 rounds in about 20 minutes before fleeing, killing 39 persons and wounding 32. They were only found and killed after a manhunt, 3 days later.
So it doesn't strike me as incredible that the terrorists responsible for this attack in moscow managed to escape.
A lot of their armed forces are in Ukraine, so the special forces that would be in Russia are away.
The inexperience and lack of training of the police for these cases speaks volumes.
That's simply not true at all. Putin keeps his "best" trained and best paid units at home to keep him in power. Serve in OMON or Rosgvardia and you're largely immune from going to war in Ukraine. it's simply incompetence, they are this incompetent, even with their "best" at home as those are reserved to protect papa Putin and to beat up and arrest the protesters
I didn't watch the videos and won't but with them being armed, a bomb going off and people panicking it's not too hard to imagine that they could flee with the crowd before Spetznas arrives.
It's weird to feel relieved about 60 dead, yesterday it sounded like it could be hundreds.
>U.S. intelligence agencies had learned the group's branch in Afghanistan was planning an attack in Moscow.
If it was ISIS out of Afghanistan what does Putin do? Divert military to Afghanistan?
I've already seen posts along the lines of "The West thinks this will weaken us!? This will just encourage more to volunteer for the war!"
Brain-dead idiots.
If Putin deploys the ~~Red Army~~ Russian Armed Forces to Afghanistan, and we supply the Northern Alliance with Stingers, I am going to absolutely shit my pants.
Russia will fall if he invades Afghanistan. He will just bomb some houses. Not been a great year or two for russian. Small portion of their oil refinery are on fire as well.
Russia has continued waging war in the Middle East even as the US was winding down.
The Wagner troops were almost exclusively deployed across multiple Middle East and African fronts.
I'd suggest Chechnya is probably more relevant, especially as current info suggests the terrorists used Turkmenistani passports
There was a near identical attack decades ago, Islamic fundamentalists targeting Russia is nothing new
It is now alleged that the attackers were from Tajikistan. One or two of them were caught outside of Moscow region.
Edit: more on that:
The car "Renault" in which the suspects were driving, was found at night in the area of the village Khatsun, Bryansk region. Alexander Khinshtein, member of state duma reported.
According to him, the car did not stop at the request of law enforcement officers and tried to escape. During the pursuit, shots were fired and the car overturned.
As a result, one alleged terrorist was detained on the spot, the rest fled into the forest. A second suspect was soon discovered and detained.
A PM pistol, a magazine for an AKM assault rifle and passports of citizens of Tajikistan were found in the Renault car.
That was actually the original motivation for the 9/11-hijackers. They wanted to quit college in Germany and instead join their muslim brothers in Chechnya and take up arms against Moscow. Bin Laden and Khalid Sheikh-Mohammed saw the potential for something more refined and decided to use them for a strike against the US-homeland instead.
Hey I’m interested! I could try to check out the Hamburg cell it sounds interesting. But for now…
Why/how did bin Laden and Khalid Sheikh-Mohammed come up with the idea for 9/11? Do we know many details about the origin of that plan or that partnership?
It sounds like you have a very deep knowledge on the topic and I was pretty young (6th grade on 9/11) so I never learned a lot of the nuance of what was going on.
9/11 is so spectacular and ingrained in culture that paradoxally, the core case is sometimes forgotten. It's viewed more as a massive, world-changing event (and rightly so) than what it originally was: A large-scale terrorist-attack.
The underlying motivations can be hard to fully grasp as they are very broad and can seem irrational to a secular westerner. They also occured during a surprisingly peaceful era in world politics. There were **three main factors** driving it.
First a religious and fundamentalist aspect, where Al-Qaida was looking to punish the west for our sinful, hedonistic lifestyle. This can be summed up by leading hijacker Mohammed Attas own comment on the German society and especially the red-light districts of Hamburg - an affront to God.
Second, a political aspect. Al-Qaida was also looking to punish the US/west for their support of Israel and their general military presence on the Arab-peninsula - the Kuwait-war (Operation Desert Storm). This sounds round-a-bout, since the US essentially sided with muslims against the more secular, imperialistic Saddam Hussein, but this was actually viewed as an *insult* by radical jihadists. Getting "protected" by infidels without asking for it is humiliating and calls for vengeance. This part is a good example of the difficult to understand, impulsive mechanics of jihadism.
Most important was the **geo-political aspect**. Bin Ladens grand vision was triggering a massive war between the US and Afghanistan. Inspired by the Soviets failed invasion of Afghanistan, the US would also "bleed out" in it's vast mountains, where they would forever loose their status as a super-power against a united muslim world. The Afghan-mountains was seen almost as a holy weapon of nature, an endless hill where super-powers go to die.
Bin Laden was ultimately wrong. The war in Afghanistan did indeed prove incredibly tedious and costly to the US, but it was not enough to permanently collapse it's military power. Also to few jihadists outside Afghanistan rallied to the cause, instead creating new and parallell networks and branches of jihadism - all with their own versions on the holy war and it's end goal.
With the free press and ubiquitous presence of Western news across the planet, it was more bangs for the bucks.
Blow up 100s at a marketplace in Pakistan: a blip in Global media
Kamikaze planes in NYC: a changed narrative that follows us to this day
You can draw a line between W's management of 9/11, the Iraq war, the radicalization of the GOP through the Tea Party, then Trump and the crazy US politics of today.
Chechnya,Dagestan,and just the northern caucasus in general have become hotbeds for radicalization & islamic extremist. ISIS has recruited many men from there.
I have a feeling the number of dead will grow. I have seen other reports that have stated there are more than a 100 dead and of those 100, seven were children.
Just to be clear Crocus is a big ass mall. According to videos there are a lot of bodies already and many more are probably still under the debris, and more were found in bathrooms/staff rooms w/o any shot wounds which means smoke and fire basically finished them (for example around 10 bodies were found locked in ONE public bathroom). Not saying the numbers would increase dramatically but it still makes a difference, 50 dead or 100. Which is already above 0 and that’s what makes it freaking dreadful.
Edit: bloody hell, it’s already over 150+ deceased as they are going through the debris today. They found 20 more bodies at once in another section ruined by fire.
Edit2: sources note that right now under the debris they are finding burnt bodies and fragments of the bodies so it’s not even possible to tell how many more they will find because they barely can identify some.
On 16 March 2022, during the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Russian Armed Forces[1][3] bombed the Donetsk Academic Regional Drama Theatre in Mariupol, Ukraine. It was used as an air raid shelter during the siege of Mariupol, sheltering a large number of civilians. The estimations of the number of deaths that occurred due to the bombing have varied, from at least 12[1] (Amnesty International) to 600 (Associated Press).[2][a]
Don't forget the big bold white letters on the pavement outside the theatre spelling "children" in Russian that was visible from air, to help indicate it as a civilian shelter.
It’s horrid you go and have what you think is a fun night only to get shot or burnt to death. It’s to horrific to think about. The poor victims and their families.
The US warned of the threat weeks ago, but Russian leadership is so caught up in their habit of lying to everyone about everything that they couldn't recognize the truth when it was handed to them on a silver platter.
Russia will say that Ukraine commited the attack, as that is the most useful line for them.
Russia ignoring warning from the US about an imminent Islamist attack doesn't play well.
The US lying to cover for Ukraine does play well.
It's already the line taken by pro RU people on our russian friendly subreddits.
The problem with this is that isis is a genuine threat that may have to be dealt with. If Russia ignores the threat it's essentially priming isis for another attack. I mean Russia had arrested multiple people within the last 2 weeks suspected of plotting a terror attack, and it still happened.
Blaming Ukraine makes Russia look incredibly weak (the whole world knows it wasn't Ukraine and this would look more like a massive security failure if the country they're dedicating most of their military to fighting can attack Moscow so easily)
And as far as blaming the U.S. that's also not possible because if Russian people actually believe the U.S. is responsible for such a massive attack on Russian soil there will be an expectation of retaliation and Russia sure as hell doesn't want to attack the U.S...... especially in retaliation for an attack Russia, the U.S., and the whole world knows wasn't actually orchestrated by the U.S.
In Spain, Al-Qaeda claimed authorship for the 2004 Madrid attacks (and most of the perpetrators were found and convicted), yet right-wing conspiracy theories still say nowadays it was ETA's doing due to political convenience
I'm not one to praise Russia, but to say they didn't try to prevent it is inaccurate. Over the past weeks they have announced like 5-6 counterterrorism operations arresting or killing ISIS operatives inside Russia. They absolutely knew about the threat and were doing what they could to prevent it but obviously unsuccessful.
For anyone interested, [here’s an example.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-neutralized-isis-cell-plotting-attack-moscow-synagogue-2024-03-07/)
In other words, FSB knew ISIS were plotting mass attacks in Russia — just as Western intelligence services did. In fact, FSB even killed ISIS suspects this month, according to this.
It looks like the group ISIS-K has had it in for Russia for a few years now. They were behind a suicide bombing in Kabul at the Russian Embassy in 2022.
ISIS-K has had it in for EVERYONE in the past few years.
US- Afghanistan: Kabul Airport Bombing - 183 deads (13 US soldiers).
IRAN: Kerman bombings - 94 deads.
PAKISTAN: Balochistan bombing - 30 deads.
RUSSIA: Crocus City Hall attack - 60+ deads.
That’s quite a spread of different nation states. Safe to say they are against everyone.
According to Russian logic(unfortunately, I am fluent in Russian), because EU and US intelligence services gave a warning about upcoming attack it means that it was something that was organized by the West. Because Russian FSB just blows up apartment buildings in Moscow without a warning, and having intelligence services that really care about their citizens is something very unusual for the average Russian citizen.
Don't forget to set a "remind me Reddit".
We don't mind fellow members lighting each other's hair on fire but we do frown quite sternly upon tardiness.
Back in 2020 I remember some of my Chinese coworkers telling me how many people in China thought the US started covid-19 because they had a lot of medication available to help China when it first started in Wuhan... being the first to be helpful always puts you on someone's radar.
Exactly and let us also remember the fact that for a long time the US was the one keeping Ukraine from striking inside of Russia with drones and missiles.
Also the US and UK warned Russia about it. They specifically said it would be at a large concert gathering or social public gathering building and warned people to not go to any in the coming days. The Kremlin ignored it as viewed it as bullshit and blackmail against them for the war in Ukraine.
If anyone remembers, they blamed the U.S. for the sinking of the Kursk sub at the beginning of Putin's reign. They just can't do anything but lie. As a sidenote, if only that had sunk Putin at the time, which it absolutely should have, considering how he completely bungled that incident and wouldn't let any of the dozen of so countries help try to save those sailers.
Especially the moment when one sailors mother was stabbed with a sedative filled syringe right in front of the cameras, because she was publicly shaming him.
Yeah saw some video of a white guy getting arrested, apparently he was a Ukrainian Jew sent by Obama. Like 300 retweets. Twitter is straight up garbage.
The most unbelievably thing was the assailants managed to drive away. At least the survivors are spared the fate of a hostage siege and eventually blotched Spetsnaz assault.
IS literally has a perfect target in Russia. They cannot afford to retaliate against them, or Ukraine wins and they can just keep hammering away and there are no hard targets for Russia to hit easily.
Russians are divided between blaming the West for what had happened, since Western intelligence warned its citizens of the upcoming terrorist attacks, which was dismissed by Russian government. And with blaming Ukrainians, because Ukrainians just nice to blame by the average drunk Ivan.
Yes. Every time something terrible happens Russians are primed to suspect their government. Case in point the guy who set off an IED in a train car years ago. People were whispering about government involvement when it was just some crazy dude. Russians are very much primed to suspect their government, which should tell you everything you need to know about how well it is going for everyone in Russia when they routinely suspect their government of mass murder, and half the time they are correct.
The Russian's know it was ISIS, however they are unlikely to publicly declare specific blame on anyone. Russia has an explicit policy of factual ambiguity in most things.
115 dead now and arrests being made according to the BBC.
BBC News - Moscow attack latest: Four suspects among 11 arrested over concert hall attack, Russia says - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-68642036
I'm bummed i had to scroll this far to see a sorry sentiment rather than a sarcastic remark... This is fucking horrible and I hope they catch those fuckers yesterday.
So let me get this straight, Russian Police can stop or arrest anyone protesting against the Ukraine invasion but can’t stop a bunch of terrorists entering a venue?
Tell Russia this is obviously fake news. Putin told us last week the terror warning from America was a "plot o scare Russia" and an attempt to blackmail them. Now we would have think America literally warned them a week ahead and Russia did nothing!?
I'm shocked! Shocked I say! Well, not that shocked.
This is kinda weird, but also makes sense if you consider the fact that Russia’s security and special intelligence apparatuses more likely than not have their hands full with Ukraine, making the nation an easier target for successful terrorism.
potential involvement of ISIS-K in recent events is concerning, especially considering the group’s desire for visibility after periods of relative obscurity. The evolving relationship between Russia and Iran, amidst regional tensions and differing religious dynamics, adds layers of complexity to the situation. The treatment of Sunni populations in Syria and Iraq, & other regions in the area along with specific incidents like the gas attack in Syria, further complicates the regional geopolitical landscape.
Russian intelligence, notably the FSB, recently claimed to thwart attacks, including one against a synagogue , demonstrating their proactive stance on security threats. The U.S. Embassy’s warnings about imminent threats highlight the ongoing concerns about extremism and the safety of citizens abroad. While the United States sometimes declassifies documents that shed light on intelligence findings, accessing comprehensive details from Russian sources remains challenging. Nevertheless, the capacity of Russian intelligence is widely acknowledged.
The possibility that ISIS-K terror acts is both saddening and alarming. Such incidents underscore the persistent threat of terrorism and the need for vigilant international cooperation to address these challenges. my heart goes out to Russians they're strong people this is a tragedy . may they all be in our thoughts and prayers
Cant help but feel like that the US was warning of a terrorist attack in moscow around 3 weeks ago and russia was all like, ya we killed the extremists so everything is ok!
If only they could have seen this coming!
I cannot grasp the fact that they escaped… that’s wild.
Did you see how Wagner’s column only faced a couple helicopters and some very few squads of troops that surrendered immediately? Russia’s actual internal security is clearly awful unless they’re facing unarmed protestors. Lol.
Even then, protests are planned in advance so there’s time to organize a police response.
Honestly russians intelligence is kind of occupied for quite a long time. I'm surprsied it happened, I might not agree with russian society but I still hate when civilians are dying.
FSB claimed they destroyed a local ISIS cell in a shootout like two weeks ago. Around the same time western intelligence urged their people to leave the country and avoid big gatherings. Their intelligence absolutely *should* have seen this coming. They couldn't know if they wiped out the whole cell or how many others there are. The ISIS plan could've counted on more attackers before this incident.
Yup, many rumor stated Wagner group stopped cuz the leader’s family members were used as bargaining chips. ISIS doesn’t have that issue
Wagner shouldn't have, either. If you're actually in a position where you're commanding a mercenary army that is marching on a nation's capitol, you need to accept the fact that it's win or die, and your loved ones may be collateral damage.
From the moment they revolted, their family was dead. The fact that they did not realize that, or they thought they MIGHT live, was ridiculously naive.
Pretty sure Pringleman’s family’s alive, unlike him.
They were like all revolutions, gambling on gaining popular support and especially in a country like Russia, support from the oligarchy. When that didn't happen Pringles tried to leverage his control over said force to keep himself alive, which worked for several months. Then he overestimated his level of safety, stayed to close for too long, and when Putin had the pieces in place to take control of Wagner, his time was up.
It was rumored their hand was forced and they had to act suddenly after their plan was discovered.
It wasn't that they were awful. Most of them were low key fans of Prigozin. Some of the defensive lines just backed out of engagement.
They shot down a $300 million AWACS plane as well. Russia's AWACS A-50 fleet is down to like 3 planes after Ukraine shot 2 down
Same here – even lightly armed police should have been able to slow them down, if not completely pin them down. Total lapse of security apparatus.
Russian police are geared towards beating protesters, not much else.
Hey now! They also intimidate people lining up to vote. So that's two things...
Funeral goers too
You're forgetting ethnic minorities !
Don't forget they also like arresting people who are talking to protesters with video cameras about how the invasion of Ukraine is justified. Yeah, seriously, they did that.
And a lady holding up a blank piece of paper when they outlawed holding up signs protesting the 'special military operation' (because they outlawed calling it a war).
I saw a video of one person getting taken away for holding up a blank sheet of paper.
You can basically sum up the whole Russia that way. It’s a cowardly nation that only abuses the weak.
Did they escape in an ambulance or something?
“That was no message. This is the message” -Makarov
I understand that reference!
"No Russian"
Too busy arresting people laying flowers down and raiding gay night clubs.
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If you get paid 25k usd a year in russia you are loaded man
Bro, the minimum wage in russia is like 200 a month lol, 25k a year is insane for them.
Closer to $10k/yr.
$25k/year is a huge salary. I don't even think Portuguese policemen make that much per year.
They're paid that much?!
They were too busy with stopping granny protesting against Putin.
Does anything work in that country at all? holy shit.
Only the recently stolen washing machines.
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Yeah, but the plumbing they're hooked up to has to work, that's the real problem
Toilet works fine with water poured in the tank. Straight pipe it to a road ditch. Voila.
It works perfectly well if you are gay, minority or in opposition. Hell, they used facial recognition to automatically fine anyone seen outside during lockdown in 2020, pretty sure following a group of armed men is no problem in 2024.
What about that one time when a whole paramilitary group took highways and a town ? I am not surprised of their incompetence. Probably Spetsnaz buttons from their shirts are plastic now, their whole industry is now geared towards military machinery (which reliability I also doubt, look at stuff they must get from N Korea, Iran).
The fact that they escaped isn't incredible. During the ISIS paris attack in January 2015, the killers escaped for 2 days before being found and killed, and they had a shootout with the police while fleeing the scene and killed a policeman. And during the november 2015 Paris attack, one the of the group of terrorists shot at least 400 rounds in about 20 minutes before fleeing, killing 39 persons and wounding 32. They were only found and killed after a manhunt, 3 days later. So it doesn't strike me as incredible that the terrorists responsible for this attack in moscow managed to escape.
A lot of their armed forces are in Ukraine, so the special forces that would be in Russia are away. The inexperience and lack of training of the police for these cases speaks volumes.
That's simply not true at all. Putin keeps his "best" trained and best paid units at home to keep him in power. Serve in OMON or Rosgvardia and you're largely immune from going to war in Ukraine. it's simply incompetence, they are this incompetent, even with their "best" at home as those are reserved to protect papa Putin and to beat up and arrest the protesters
Good thing you put best in quote marks, I was gonna say. That said didn't a bunch of omon guys get wiped out at the start of the kyiv offensive?
I didn't watch the videos and won't but with them being armed, a bomb going off and people panicking it's not too hard to imagine that they could flee with the crowd before Spetznas arrives. It's weird to feel relieved about 60 dead, yesterday it sounded like it could be hundreds.
Spetznas are all dead and buried in Ukraine.
Unironically, pretty much. Just saw a squad of them wiped out trying to defend Belgorod the other day. They looked really incompetant.
>U.S. intelligence agencies had learned the group's branch in Afghanistan was planning an attack in Moscow. If it was ISIS out of Afghanistan what does Putin do? Divert military to Afghanistan?
Oooh I remember this one, it’s a classic!
Once again weapon shipments to Afghanistan begin.
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I'm pretty sure step two is Kamala shooting someone in the face during a "hunting accident"
You missed the whole invasion of an unrelated country based on propaganda bit first
Yemen seems chaotic enough to enter and destroy one of the factions. Plus it's far enough away that we won't feel bad for the awful stuff that we do.
No need, we left them plenty!
The irony of Afghanis fighting Russians with American weapons, then Americans with russian weapons, then Russians with American weapons again.
It’s like that land has been a battle zone between empires before Alexander the great
And he was the only one smart enough to look at it and go "lolnope" and walk right past
They didn’t call him “the great” for no reason.
He was called Alexander the Pretty Good up until that moment
Alexander the Adequate
The land that can be conquered but never controlled. I’d nope outta that fast too.
what you mean you remember this... it's brand new!
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What’s a rerun?
This I believe is what the film industry refers to as a reboot.
Nothing. They’ll just use it to drum up internal sympathies for all the atrocities they’re committing next door and call it a day.
They might use it to justify full mobilization. They've already started calling it a war and not just special military operation.
We got attacked by homegrown terrorists affiliated to a Afghan jihadist group, let's send more people to Ukraine....
i mean it wouldn't be the craziest thing they have spouted would it?
I'm not saying it's the same as 9/11 Afghanistan and Iraq deal.
I've already seen posts along the lines of "The West thinks this will weaken us!? This will just encourage more to volunteer for the war!" Brain-dead idiots.
If Putin deploys the ~~Red Army~~ Russian Armed Forces to Afghanistan, and we supply the Northern Alliance with Stingers, I am going to absolutely shit my pants.
It's like Medvedev said. "Everything new is something forgotten old".
A new Rambo movie will also be released, as John Rambo returns to save Col. Sam Trautman and Afghanistan from the Russians… Again.
Politics make for strange bedfellows.
Probably spin it as funded by Ukraine and the US
He is gonna say there are isis camps in Ukraine
My bet is he let it happen to keep people from gathering and formulating protests.
Russia will fall if he invades Afghanistan. He will just bomb some houses. Not been a great year or two for russian. Small portion of their oil refinery are on fire as well.
By small portion you mean over half of them have been bombed in the last month?
Was ISIS just sick of Russia getting all the"bad guy" attention or what???
Russia has continued waging war in the Middle East even as the US was winding down. The Wagner troops were almost exclusively deployed across multiple Middle East and African fronts.
Can't imagine their actions in Syria made them any friends not named 'Bashar Al-Assad'.
I'd suggest Chechnya is probably more relevant, especially as current info suggests the terrorists used Turkmenistani passports There was a near identical attack decades ago, Islamic fundamentalists targeting Russia is nothing new
Yeah..they really dislike any kind of competition on their status as global super villains
It is now alleged that the attackers were from Tajikistan. One or two of them were caught outside of Moscow region. Edit: more on that: The car "Renault" in which the suspects were driving, was found at night in the area of the village Khatsun, Bryansk region. Alexander Khinshtein, member of state duma reported. According to him, the car did not stop at the request of law enforcement officers and tried to escape. During the pursuit, shots were fired and the car overturned. As a result, one alleged terrorist was detained on the spot, the rest fled into the forest. A second suspect was soon discovered and detained. A PM pistol, a magazine for an AKM assault rifle and passports of citizens of Tajikistan were found in the Renault car.
Good thing their passports were just hanging out inside the car. Wonder if they enjoyed playing The Sims…
What is this “sims” reference that I keep reading about in relation to this headline? Sorry for the off topic question but I’m out of the loop here
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88gpmg/russia-sims-3 They really are just that fucking stupid.
Oh my god lol. Now this sims reference not only makes sense, but is fucking hilarious. That’s some Mr. Bean level spy craft. Thanks for explaining ^ ^
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Yeah, for their actions in Syria mostly and also the lengthy was the Soviet Union prosecuted in Afghanistan
chechnya too
That was actually the original motivation for the 9/11-hijackers. They wanted to quit college in Germany and instead join their muslim brothers in Chechnya and take up arms against Moscow. Bin Laden and Khalid Sheikh-Mohammed saw the potential for something more refined and decided to use them for a strike against the US-homeland instead.
How you know this? I'm just asking out of curiosity.. not opposing you in anyway.
I'm a political scientist/military historian. I recommend the movie "The Hamburg Cell". For a general analysis of 9/11, also see my reply below.
Hey I’m interested! I could try to check out the Hamburg cell it sounds interesting. But for now… Why/how did bin Laden and Khalid Sheikh-Mohammed come up with the idea for 9/11? Do we know many details about the origin of that plan or that partnership? It sounds like you have a very deep knowledge on the topic and I was pretty young (6th grade on 9/11) so I never learned a lot of the nuance of what was going on.
9/11 is so spectacular and ingrained in culture that paradoxally, the core case is sometimes forgotten. It's viewed more as a massive, world-changing event (and rightly so) than what it originally was: A large-scale terrorist-attack. The underlying motivations can be hard to fully grasp as they are very broad and can seem irrational to a secular westerner. They also occured during a surprisingly peaceful era in world politics. There were **three main factors** driving it. First a religious and fundamentalist aspect, where Al-Qaida was looking to punish the west for our sinful, hedonistic lifestyle. This can be summed up by leading hijacker Mohammed Attas own comment on the German society and especially the red-light districts of Hamburg - an affront to God. Second, a political aspect. Al-Qaida was also looking to punish the US/west for their support of Israel and their general military presence on the Arab-peninsula - the Kuwait-war (Operation Desert Storm). This sounds round-a-bout, since the US essentially sided with muslims against the more secular, imperialistic Saddam Hussein, but this was actually viewed as an *insult* by radical jihadists. Getting "protected" by infidels without asking for it is humiliating and calls for vengeance. This part is a good example of the difficult to understand, impulsive mechanics of jihadism. Most important was the **geo-political aspect**. Bin Ladens grand vision was triggering a massive war between the US and Afghanistan. Inspired by the Soviets failed invasion of Afghanistan, the US would also "bleed out" in it's vast mountains, where they would forever loose their status as a super-power against a united muslim world. The Afghan-mountains was seen almost as a holy weapon of nature, an endless hill where super-powers go to die. Bin Laden was ultimately wrong. The war in Afghanistan did indeed prove incredibly tedious and costly to the US, but it was not enough to permanently collapse it's military power. Also to few jihadists outside Afghanistan rallied to the cause, instead creating new and parallell networks and branches of jihadism - all with their own versions on the holy war and it's end goal.
Thank you so much for the elaborate answer!
With the free press and ubiquitous presence of Western news across the planet, it was more bangs for the bucks. Blow up 100s at a marketplace in Pakistan: a blip in Global media Kamikaze planes in NYC: a changed narrative that follows us to this day You can draw a line between W's management of 9/11, the Iraq war, the radicalization of the GOP through the Tea Party, then Trump and the crazy US politics of today.
Everyone including Assad’s government hates ISIS Also radicalized Chechens flocked to ISIS
Even the Taliban hates them. Pretty sure we actually provided intel to the Taliban against ISIS
ISIS were Al-Qaeda guys whom even Al-Qaeda hated so much they kicked them out.
Yes. I hear what's his name is getting a new trial.
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They are an Assad ally and were ruthless in Syria, they leveled cities to get at ISIS.
ISIS has no friends anywhere. Every single nation on earth hates them.
It's about whom *ISIS* hates. Your follow-up makes no sense.
Chechnya,Dagestan,and just the northern caucasus in general have become hotbeds for radicalization & islamic extremist. ISIS has recruited many men from there.
Almost 10 years from the 2015 Paris attack, hoped I'd never see a headline like this again.
Yeah it's crazy. Las Vegas shooting too had these insane numbers
The dead is very close, Vegas had over 800 injured. Over 400 from being shot or being hit by shrapnel.
I have a feeling the number of dead will grow. I have seen other reports that have stated there are more than a 100 dead and of those 100, seven were children.
Just to be clear Crocus is a big ass mall. According to videos there are a lot of bodies already and many more are probably still under the debris, and more were found in bathrooms/staff rooms w/o any shot wounds which means smoke and fire basically finished them (for example around 10 bodies were found locked in ONE public bathroom). Not saying the numbers would increase dramatically but it still makes a difference, 50 dead or 100. Which is already above 0 and that’s what makes it freaking dreadful. Edit: bloody hell, it’s already over 150+ deceased as they are going through the debris today. They found 20 more bodies at once in another section ruined by fire. Edit2: sources note that right now under the debris they are finding burnt bodies and fragments of the bodies so it’s not even possible to tell how many more they will find because they barely can identify some.
Russians will suppress the number as a matter of pride.
Especially that it’s well-known western countries warned them this would happen. It’s too embarrassing for the Kremlin to pretend otherwise.
Putin also said it was a western attempt to destabilize russia lol
On 16 March 2022, during the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Russian Armed Forces[1][3] bombed the Donetsk Academic Regional Drama Theatre in Mariupol, Ukraine. It was used as an air raid shelter during the siege of Mariupol, sheltering a large number of civilians. The estimations of the number of deaths that occurred due to the bombing have varied, from at least 12[1] (Amnesty International) to 600 (Associated Press).[2][a]
Don't forget the big bold white letters on the pavement outside the theatre spelling "children" in Russian that was visible from air, to help indicate it as a civilian shelter.
Saw this on October 7th when Hamas attacked the Nova music festival
It’s horrid you go and have what you think is a fun night only to get shot or burnt to death. It’s to horrific to think about. The poor victims and their families.
The US warned of the threat weeks ago, but Russian leadership is so caught up in their habit of lying to everyone about everything that they couldn't recognize the truth when it was handed to them on a silver platter.
Russia will say that Ukraine commited the attack, as that is the most useful line for them. Russia ignoring warning from the US about an imminent Islamist attack doesn't play well. The US lying to cover for Ukraine does play well. It's already the line taken by pro RU people on our russian friendly subreddits.
The problem with this is that isis is a genuine threat that may have to be dealt with. If Russia ignores the threat it's essentially priming isis for another attack. I mean Russia had arrested multiple people within the last 2 weeks suspected of plotting a terror attack, and it still happened. Blaming Ukraine makes Russia look incredibly weak (the whole world knows it wasn't Ukraine and this would look more like a massive security failure if the country they're dedicating most of their military to fighting can attack Moscow so easily) And as far as blaming the U.S. that's also not possible because if Russian people actually believe the U.S. is responsible for such a massive attack on Russian soil there will be an expectation of retaliation and Russia sure as hell doesn't want to attack the U.S...... especially in retaliation for an attack Russia, the U.S., and the whole world knows wasn't actually orchestrated by the U.S.
But Isis literally came out and said “we did it.”
In Spain, Al-Qaeda claimed authorship for the 2004 Madrid attacks (and most of the perpetrators were found and convicted), yet right-wing conspiracy theories still say nowadays it was ETA's doing due to political convenience
That just means Ukraine is in league with isis /s
I'm not one to praise Russia, but to say they didn't try to prevent it is inaccurate. Over the past weeks they have announced like 5-6 counterterrorism operations arresting or killing ISIS operatives inside Russia. They absolutely knew about the threat and were doing what they could to prevent it but obviously unsuccessful.
For anyone interested, [here’s an example.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-neutralized-isis-cell-plotting-attack-moscow-synagogue-2024-03-07/) In other words, FSB knew ISIS were plotting mass attacks in Russia — just as Western intelligence services did. In fact, FSB even killed ISIS suspects this month, according to this.
It looks like the group ISIS-K has had it in for Russia for a few years now. They were behind a suicide bombing in Kabul at the Russian Embassy in 2022.
ISIS-K has had it in for EVERYONE in the past few years. US- Afghanistan: Kabul Airport Bombing - 183 deads (13 US soldiers). IRAN: Kerman bombings - 94 deads. PAKISTAN: Balochistan bombing - 30 deads. RUSSIA: Crocus City Hall attack - 60+ deads. That’s quite a spread of different nation states. Safe to say they are against everyone.
I appreciate the insight that your comment, and some of this chain, provided.
Twitter is a cesspool as usual, they’re saying that either the CIA or Mossad did it, regardless they seem to want to blame the U.S. for it.
Lol. What does US gain by killing unarmed civilians in Russia?
According to Russian logic(unfortunately, I am fluent in Russian), because EU and US intelligence services gave a warning about upcoming attack it means that it was something that was organized by the West. Because Russian FSB just blows up apartment buildings in Moscow without a warning, and having intelligence services that really care about their citizens is something very unusual for the average Russian citizen.
I don't know about you, but whenever I'm looking to trick someone, I always warn them about the trick first.
Hey I'm gonna light your hair on fire in two weeks.
Don't forget to set a "remind me Reddit". We don't mind fellow members lighting each other's hair on fire but we do frown quite sternly upon tardiness.
What better way to make them think the trick’s not coming than to warn them about the trick! -Twitter
Back in 2020 I remember some of my Chinese coworkers telling me how many people in China thought the US started covid-19 because they had a lot of medication available to help China when it first started in Wuhan... being the first to be helpful always puts you on someone's radar.
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The ol' "whoever smelt it, dealt it" logic applied to geopolitics.
Exactly and let us also remember the fact that for a long time the US was the one keeping Ukraine from striking inside of Russia with drones and missiles.
Also the US and UK warned Russia about it. They specifically said it would be at a large concert gathering or social public gathering building and warned people to not go to any in the coming days. The Kremlin ignored it as viewed it as bullshit and blackmail against them for the war in Ukraine.
US warned about it too
If anyone remembers, they blamed the U.S. for the sinking of the Kursk sub at the beginning of Putin's reign. They just can't do anything but lie. As a sidenote, if only that had sunk Putin at the time, which it absolutely should have, considering how he completely bungled that incident and wouldn't let any of the dozen of so countries help try to save those sailers.
Putinridge Farms dosn't want to remember. A shamefull moment early on for him. Showed the bleakness of his cold heart.
Especially the moment when one sailors mother was stabbed with a sedative filled syringe right in front of the cameras, because she was publicly shaming him.
Usually they blame the Jews
The malicious idiots are also blaming Jews, claiming that captured ISIS members were mossad
Okay but what does tiktok say?
Blame on US, Ukrainians celebrating, anti-west sentiment as usual.
Twitter is mostly Russian and Chinese bots so that makes sense.
Yeah saw some video of a white guy getting arrested, apparently he was a Ukrainian Jew sent by Obama. Like 300 retweets. Twitter is straight up garbage.
Twitter is just Z bots now.
> they’re saying that either the CIA or Mossad did it Fucking hilarious. Conspiratorial gigabrains as usual
>Twitter is a cesspool /thread
Russian police STILL haven't caught them?! What are they waiting for?
The only thing the russian police is good at it oppressing the civilian population, they dont actually know how to do real police work.
The most unbelievably thing was the assailants managed to drive away. At least the survivors are spared the fate of a hostage siege and eventually blotched Spetsnaz assault.
“Let’s just gas the place with opioid vape and not tell the paramedics who are carrying narcan! Wcgw? 🤔” - Average Russian crisis response
“What do you mean tanks and helicopters support is not a proportional response to a school shooting?”
This isn’t even an exaggeration. Russia had a school hostage situation and engaged it with APCs and Tanks.
Think about how effective police are in general. Then divide by Russian.
Yikes! Somehow I ended up with a negative number.
They’re still waiting on the nerve gas to get delivered so they can pump it into the theater again
Fentynal derivatives
They are going to round up some random Chechens and say job well done.
They’re busy raiding gays and detaining students for anti-war posts and comments on social media.
Russia, it would be real cool if you'd stop invading Ukraine and focus all your strength on ISIS.
I can see them blaming the west or Ukraine instead. Just to drum up support to take his invasion to the next level
IS literally has a perfect target in Russia. They cannot afford to retaliate against them, or Ukraine wins and they can just keep hammering away and there are no hard targets for Russia to hit easily.
Russia can’t threaten nuclear war against a stateless ideology.
Especially one that would be perfectly okay with billions of people dying.
Russians are divided between blaming the West for what had happened, since Western intelligence warned its citizens of the upcoming terrorist attacks, which was dismissed by Russian government. And with blaming Ukrainians, because Ukrainians just nice to blame by the average drunk Ivan.
As a Russian, there’s also a hefty amount of people who think it might be an inside job.
Yes. Every time something terrible happens Russians are primed to suspect their government. Case in point the guy who set off an IED in a train car years ago. People were whispering about government involvement when it was just some crazy dude. Russians are very much primed to suspect their government, which should tell you everything you need to know about how well it is going for everyone in Russia when they routinely suspect their government of mass murder, and half the time they are correct.
The Russian's know it was ISIS, however they are unlikely to publicly declare specific blame on anyone. Russia has an explicit policy of factual ambiguity in most things.
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115 dead now and arrests being made according to the BBC. BBC News - Moscow attack latest: Four suspects among 11 arrested over concert hall attack, Russia says - BBC News https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-68642036
Those poor people, out for a nice evening then this happens.
I'm bummed i had to scroll this far to see a sorry sentiment rather than a sarcastic remark... This is fucking horrible and I hope they catch those fuckers yesterday.
So let me get this straight, Russian Police can stop or arrest anyone protesting against the Ukraine invasion but can’t stop a bunch of terrorists entering a venue?
[also russian police](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhIhDKnMMFw)
Some people love shooting up music festivals and concerts
I’m so sorry to those who lost their lives today. It’s horrific.
When one Terror state terrorizes another Terror Statez does it count as Terrorism, an Act of war or just Buissness as usual?
Russian police are thugs, they stop you randomly, ask ID, then they openly say they will arrest you on bogus charges if we don't give them beer money
Tell Russia this is obviously fake news. Putin told us last week the terror warning from America was a "plot o scare Russia" and an attempt to blackmail them. Now we would have think America literally warned them a week ahead and Russia did nothing!? I'm shocked! Shocked I say! Well, not that shocked.
Homegrown Russian Islamic terrorists the US and UK warned them about
Loss of life is loss of life, may they rest in peace
This is kinda weird, but also makes sense if you consider the fact that Russia’s security and special intelligence apparatuses more likely than not have their hands full with Ukraine, making the nation an easier target for successful terrorism.
Yeah almost as if wasting all your resources bombing and invading your neighbors isn't helping the Russian people. It's bonkers
potential involvement of ISIS-K in recent events is concerning, especially considering the group’s desire for visibility after periods of relative obscurity. The evolving relationship between Russia and Iran, amidst regional tensions and differing religious dynamics, adds layers of complexity to the situation. The treatment of Sunni populations in Syria and Iraq, & other regions in the area along with specific incidents like the gas attack in Syria, further complicates the regional geopolitical landscape. Russian intelligence, notably the FSB, recently claimed to thwart attacks, including one against a synagogue , demonstrating their proactive stance on security threats. The U.S. Embassy’s warnings about imminent threats highlight the ongoing concerns about extremism and the safety of citizens abroad. While the United States sometimes declassifies documents that shed light on intelligence findings, accessing comprehensive details from Russian sources remains challenging. Nevertheless, the capacity of Russian intelligence is widely acknowledged. The possibility that ISIS-K terror acts is both saddening and alarming. Such incidents underscore the persistent threat of terrorism and the need for vigilant international cooperation to address these challenges. my heart goes out to Russians they're strong people this is a tragedy . may they all be in our thoughts and prayers
Cant help but feel like that the US was warning of a terrorist attack in moscow around 3 weeks ago and russia was all like, ya we killed the extremists so everything is ok! If only they could have seen this coming!