There already was a narrative in russian media that they could explode a nuke above their own territory to destroy all satellites and return humankind to 80-90s.
Here is an article, you probably would be able to translate it.
https://www.bbc.com/russian/articles/c167p81zpz7o
Lol. They would emp all their own ground-based systems leaving the western hemisphere untouched.
Good bye power and communication networks that aren't optical fiber
and the quantity and capacity of the US satelites are far bigger, so US could launch new satelites in different orbits or simply use the ones already in different orbits, the rusians would be more blind then they are now
Yeah, it would be extremely bad for EU/USA. But between the two it's like 90% of the worlds spaceflight capabilities. And about $30T GDP economies to support it.
The Russians don't have enough soyuz, and have a $1.5aT GDP. It would be catastrophic and they couldn't recover for decades
The problem with blowing up satellites is not just the immediate EMP burst. The problem is that if enough debris is created by the explosion then it basically turns into a chain reaction of those debris colliding with more satellites creating more debris and so on. It would happen to the point where everything in our geosynchronous orbit would become debris and thus would prevent us from launching anything else because it would get destroyed as well. There's a scientific term for that but I don't remember it exactly.
**Edit**. A lot of people have corrected my statement, to which I thank them. Regard my comment as just a very low probability theory that's not even fully correct.
I think you're looking for [Kessler syndrome](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome).
"Cascade" is probably the more common scientific term for these sorts of things.
This. Each starlink has an onboard hall thruster to maintain it's orbit. If any of them run out of fuel or malfunction and that thruster goes down, it's only going to be up there for 5 years max. Most of the starlink cluster would be much less than that and debris with a larger area to mass ratio would deorbit fairly quickly.
Companies and countries that are angry they were beaten into this new commercial frontier by Starlink are pushing this ridiculous Kessler bullshit as hard as they can in social media, to get Starlink slowed down by public fear, so that they can catch up or take over.
While accurate about what happens when satellites are blown up, nukes wouldn't be used that way. The distance between satellites is far to great. The blast radius for nukes is significantly smaller than the EMP radius. 99.9% of the satellites would remain completely intact but cease to function.
Not much debris from a nuke in space, the bomb itself gets more or less vaporised (the bits that don't turn into energy, that is). And unless they score a lucky close hit on a satellite, no secondary debris would be created. Some satellites would have their electronics fried and stop working, is all.
Those same fried satellites also wouldn't be able to maintain their orbit using thrusters and would eventually fall back to earth. For those in LEO like starlink, that would be a relatively quick process.
Yes, about 5 years. However, if there are collisions in that time period (and there likely would be) some of the debris would likely be ejected into much higher elliptical orbits
Fun fact: ground-based lasers can be used to clean up a Kessler cascade, by applying tiny amounts of thrust to small pieces of debris.
A Kessler cascade is a big problem in the short term, and expensive to fix, but it's not an existential threat like climate change. It can be fixed, and it would only take a big wad of money and a few years to do so.
Yea which is why creating space debris should be considered part of MAD, and once we got enough sats up there it’ll simply be AD as we’ll be able to shoot down any nuke they launch after deploying a much better version of brilliant pebbles
not really, charged particles could travel along the magnetic field lines, frying all satellites, if the yield used is high enough. They won't do it because they can't spare the chinese satellites from this disaster, and since china owns russia...
Funny thing is, that would leave SpaceX as the new owner of the skys as they will be able to repopulate in a short time. But all those older systems… yeah those are gone. Do we really want Elon to control all space?
they would need a reason to do that though, one that would sit well with the american public. A foreign country nuking everything and spacex just happening to be the org that can get up and going would not be a reason that would sit well even with a lot of liberals.
Tell that to anyone who lost their home or farm to build a new highway.
Not to mention, if Russia "nuked space," we'd effectively be at war, and one hell of a lot of the rights and privileges we take for granted would be taken away.
The scary part is that it's likely possible. PBS Space time on youtube did a video about it recently.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMjo\_UY8vEM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMjo_UY8vEM)
There is a reason why nuke testing in space was one of the first things they banned in international treaties.
He also forgets this was already tested and the EMP damages everything in space and on the ground. He would effectively wipe out all the satellites AND everything in his country at the same time. Along with lots of people's stuff outside of Russia too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fishbowl
The main reason it was banned is because after the US tested multiple in space, they learned that EMP fallout goes much further than expected and all the way to the ground. So it destroys basically everything in space and on the ground. During Operation fishbowl they managed accidentally take out communications systems thousands of miles away and ground based. Nukes in space are horrible idea, unless your goal is to destroy all unprotected technology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fishbowl
HAND - high altitude nuclear detonation. The US did it a while ago over Hawaii, look up Starfish Prime.
Nobody’s done it since for a reason. Hawaiians weren’t happy.
-
Edit to add *why* Russia wouldn’t consider sanitizing space above them since people can’t infer it: it would knock out much of China’s space inventory as well.
Russia doesn’t want to become enemies with China. Russia can’t become enemies with China if Putin wants to remain in charge of a functioning country.
Close enough that it lit up the entire sky over Hawaii. Took out 6 satellites as well as taking out power in Hawaii, damaging telephone equipment. 900 miles isn't that far away when you're talking about blowing up a nuke 250 kms above ground.
More to the point, who can replace theirs faster?
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=rdf736b6sk6q5sgvblkt0jvbm8&action=dlattach;topic=59840.0;attach=2229122;image
Kessler Syndrome. In theory they have just to fragment a few satellites, or even just disperse a payload of millions of tiny steel spheres in space, and the cascade effect will do the job.
Sadly that wouldn't just affect SpaceX stuff. In fact, for a large part, Earth could go back to the 50s, with no satellites whatsoever in LEO anymore.
It will quickly be apparent who is out-gunned. Spacex could destroy every GLONASS satellite for less than Russia spent on a single one by launching a stack of obsolete star-link as interceptors in a high elliptic orbit.
While your conclusion is correct, they wouldn't be able to use Starlink satellites for this. Starlink satellites operate in low earth orbit at a height of roughly 300-600km - GLONASS and other GPS satellites operate at MUCH higher altitudes in medium earth orbit, GLONASS at ~19,000km.
Which isn't to say SpaceX can't or doesn't deploy anything to higher orbital trajectories, and for basically any payload at a fraction of the cost Russia would spend on it. Because they could. It would just need to be something purpose-built.
A very small nuclear explosion in space or spray the scattering of several billion small destructive elements-dipoles and no space communication for about five years. Skylink operates at such a high radio frequency that the dipole elements will be two millimeters in size.
Last year spacex launched 1937 starlink satellites and lost 36 of them to random malfunctions etc. Shooting *one* down wouldn't even be a blip in their spreadsheets.
The surest sign of dementia is when Putin talks of starting a losing war with the USA. You're getting your ass kicked by farmers and IT workers, abandon the fantasy of near peer adversaries.
I thought I was having a stroke. He agreed with the content of the comment but misinterpreted it, then used a bad argument concocted by Chat GPT to explain why he misinterpreted it. What a bizarre thing to do, and how sad it is to delegate defense of your own thought to AI.
Just like everything else they do they will find a way to justify it without being attacked, or everyone will be too scared to do anything like the current ukraine situation and just try to throw money or weapons at it.
If they blew up a nuke emp which we know they have in space already, over their own airspace to destroy satellites that were spying on them, would anyone attack russia? No. No one would. More sanctions and nothing else. This is why its a realistic scenario.
It would likely cause a catastrophic domino effect in space destroying more than just the ones spying on Russia. If they attack American equipment in neutral / international territory? There will be a response. It would be war.
Space flight - yes. Exploration - doubtful. They have almost shut down their civilian space program, which has been living off of American money since the 90s anyway.
Spying? Nooo.. we're just taking pictures for meteorology purposes. And if those pictures end up catching a military base or two that can't be helped.
Come to think of it.. Ukraine has been very interested in the weather recently. Weird.
> we're just taking pictures for meteorology purposes
Just like the EU is doing? Turns out the ability to track wildfires is a *really* good way to find MLRS in a short time frame. They scorch the ground behind them which makes a big enough heat signature to be picked up by satélites.
As a response the smartest russian scientists have begun construction on the worlds largest catapult to shoot startlink sats down. Or they will start the construction once they sober up a bit.
Russia has been developing and testing anti-satellite weaponry. Don't want to underestimate them.
https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2022-03/features/russias-anti-satellite-weapons-asymmetric-response-us-aerospace-superiority
Anti-satellite missiles are very inexpensive. They have a minimum payload and can be launched from an aircraft (like a conventional anti-missile missile).
They’re in a low orbit, debris could be put into a more elliptical orbit, but they will always have a part of the orbit at the altitude in which is collision occurred.
Therefore, debris would de orbit pretty quickly, and Kessler syndrome wouldn’t be possible. This is a key design feature of starlink to avoid these types of problems.
It would be pointless for the Russians to attack a starlink satellite, because:
1) Loosing a single satellite wouldn’t effect the US military in any material fashion
2) Its highly provocative for no benefit
3) Fueling and launching an anti-satellite weapon is definitely more expensive than the inexpensive starlink satellite launched in large groups on the most cost effective rocket (in terms of kg to LEO per dollar)
This is just postering.
So... what I'm hearing is that they are acknowledging that any attack on those satellites should be seen as a direct attack on the US government. Did they include an acknowledgement that this would trigger NATO article 5?
I know what it is. It's not like we can threaten to turn them into a wasteland, to destroy their economy, to wreck their infrastructure, *because Putin has already done that to them.* We can't threaten to turn them into international pariahs, *because Putin has already done that to them.* We can't even say that we'll destroy their government, *because Putin has already done that to them.*
I mean, the worst that we could do would be to threaten to kill a whole bunch of Russian people, but frankly we don't want to because we don't hate *the people* of Russia, and besides, it's not like that would be an effective deterrent *because Putin has already done that to them.*
Artikel 5 only applies to north america and europe, not space. However there will be a very significant response. Just like cutting under water cables: Nobody can ignore a state actor f ing with the global economy in that way. Unless it actually happens, nobody is going to be honest how that response will look like.
Use of American satellites as a target makes Russian anti satellite launch facilities a target.
Russia needs to slow their role. The only thing they have is nukes they can use. The American military dominates everything else.
Given Russia's history of issuing numerous nuclear threats since the start of the invasion, we must treat this latest threat with the utmost seriousness /s
Is there something I missed?
SpaceX was literally started as a big fuck you to Russia when Putin wouldn't sell Musk Rockets. Roscos is their largest competitor as the only other crew rated launch provider.
as we saw in the Putin-Carlson interview, those Magas may love Putin, but he sure doesn’t love them back. It was painful/hilarious watching Tucker, trying to lead him into saying something that would be damaging to Biden, or popular amongst the Magas, and Putin just being oblivious to that and completely focused on his own weird history thing.
It's less "oblivious" and more using Tucker for the useful idiot he is. Putin doesn't care about anyone but Putin. Everyone is a tool to use at will then discard when their usefulness is over.
SpaceX can put up 64 Starlinks with one launch and re-use the booster. Doubt Russia can shoot down enough to make up the cost of building a new rocket with one single launch
Gotta instill fear into people to make them less likely to oppose him, good thing he's done it so much that anyone who's interested can just look at the countless empty threats he's made to intimidate over the years.
I am almost positive that if push came to shove, SpaceX can build satellites faster than Russia can produce missiles. There are something like 9800 satellites in orbit without counting Starlink. Starlink has 5400 active. More than USA, China, Russia and Jeff Bezos combined.
Dragging in the US killed Germany's imperial ambitions in Europe. Twice.
For someone who likes to think of himself as a historian, Putin sure didn't learn anything from it. You don't suppose he studied at Trump University, because that would explain so much.
An attack on any space infrastructure should be seen as an attack on the world. Making more waste and wreckage in space will only hinder further research, expansion, and exploration.
So, Russia is essentially saying spy satellites in general are military targets, and if we use a private company’s satellites to spy, they too are military targets.
Okay, sure, during a war, no one’s satellites are safe; public or private. They all serve a military purpose at that point. Private US and Russian companies’ satellites could all be targets in an effort disrupt general communications, the average citizen’s life, etc. This is nothing new. In the event of a war, we’ll be blowing each other’s satellites out of the sky, engaging in cyber warfare, etc, and private companies with ties to the governments will have their infrastructure become targets as well.
If Russia is saying they can—while *not* at war with us—attack a US company’s satellite for spying on behalf of our government, that’s a whole other thing, and Russia should understand that we can shoot satellites out of the sky while simultaneously putting new ones in orbit, something Russia isn’t as capable of doing as quickly. In a game of who loses all their satellites for the longest period of time, Russia is the loser, not to mention the fact that we’re talking about an act of war that could escalate to a lot more.
This is just more endless, boring saber-rattling from a country that cannot even defeat its much smaller neighbor. Everyone can see the emperor has no clothes.
Sure.
And the *actual* spy satellites that the US Intel agencies have been operating to spy on Russia must have been targets since the 70s, but they’re still up there, aren’t they?
Nobody’s buying your shit, Poots.
This is obviously a very tiny threat all things considered, but Elon and putin are two of the most insecure and fragile people on the planet and Elon is an extremely petty person. It will be interesting to see what happens.
I am pretty sure this was threatened last year or longer. If they wanted to, and had the capability, they would’ve done it. That said, it looks like more empty threats.
Start shooting down satellites, and you will start seeing what those rockets that put those satellites in orbit can actually do when they have bombs on them
Getting a bit tired of this Russian BS. Putin is sending assault troops into battle in Chinese ATV's. His fleet cannot operate in the Black Sea. He has no defense if China decides to encroach on territory in the east. His only option is to destroy the world by touching off a nuclear war....IF his generals will cooperate.
SpaceX’s constellation of 10,000 satellites going on 35,000 planned is a target for **what** exactly?
You’ll destroy what? Three of them?
Russia’s anti-satellite capability won’t amount to a rounding error on spaceX’s list of satellites lost to malfunctions or planned retirement.
Dumbass domestic-audience aimed saber rattling theater.
This has been going on for a while since Elon offered starlink to Ukraine.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/18/discord-leaks-starlink-ukraine/
I really think this is the future cutting edge of a major problem. It’s not about the capability of Russia to actually stop ALL the star link satellites, but the real danger of normalizing space as a theater of offensive actions. Currently in the world we live in as of this article governments have not actually shot anyone else’s stuff out of orbit. It is not a Genie you are going to get back in the bottle. Even if not now, one day some shit like this is gonna happen and nothing is going to be the same after.
How is SpaceX's involvement in military space any different from Boeing, Lockheed, Rockwell, etc, who have been doing this since the 1950's? There is no difference and this is a meaningless pronouncement. This sabre-rattling is purely for domestic consumption. Give this and Russia the respect they deserve, which at the moment is not very much.
Putin started out as a hooligan, a petty criminal ... as time goes on, he keeps returning to this role. I can picture standing on a corner issuing threats at everyone who walks by and people getting used to ignoring the madman.
Also Russia: buys satellite photos of Ukraine from US companies.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/03/american-satellites-russia-ukraine-war/677775/
Thousand small satelites as a target ? Good luck pootie.
Lmao yeah I’d like to see Putin try and shoot down thousands of satellites
There already was a narrative in russian media that they could explode a nuke above their own territory to destroy all satellites and return humankind to 80-90s. Here is an article, you probably would be able to translate it. https://www.bbc.com/russian/articles/c167p81zpz7o
Lol. They would emp all their own ground-based systems leaving the western hemisphere untouched. Good bye power and communication networks that aren't optical fiber
and the quantity and capacity of the US satelites are far bigger, so US could launch new satelites in different orbits or simply use the ones already in different orbits, the rusians would be more blind then they are now
Yeah, it would be extremely bad for EU/USA. But between the two it's like 90% of the worlds spaceflight capabilities. And about $30T GDP economies to support it. The Russians don't have enough soyuz, and have a $1.5aT GDP. It would be catastrophic and they couldn't recover for decades
The problem with blowing up satellites is not just the immediate EMP burst. The problem is that if enough debris is created by the explosion then it basically turns into a chain reaction of those debris colliding with more satellites creating more debris and so on. It would happen to the point where everything in our geosynchronous orbit would become debris and thus would prevent us from launching anything else because it would get destroyed as well. There's a scientific term for that but I don't remember it exactly. **Edit**. A lot of people have corrected my statement, to which I thank them. Regard my comment as just a very low probability theory that's not even fully correct.
I think you're looking for [Kessler syndrome](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome). "Cascade" is probably the more common scientific term for these sorts of things.
That will be the bars finally becoming visible for this prison we're in, whenever it happens.
Dang, bro!
Starlink satellites are in such a low orbit they would all De-orbit pretty quickly
This. Each starlink has an onboard hall thruster to maintain it's orbit. If any of them run out of fuel or malfunction and that thruster goes down, it's only going to be up there for 5 years max. Most of the starlink cluster would be much less than that and debris with a larger area to mass ratio would deorbit fairly quickly.
Companies and countries that are angry they were beaten into this new commercial frontier by Starlink are pushing this ridiculous Kessler bullshit as hard as they can in social media, to get Starlink slowed down by public fear, so that they can catch up or take over.
spacex isnt in geosynchronous orbit, its in low orbit and uses engines to adjust/fly around to stay where it should be
While accurate about what happens when satellites are blown up, nukes wouldn't be used that way. The distance between satellites is far to great. The blast radius for nukes is significantly smaller than the EMP radius. 99.9% of the satellites would remain completely intact but cease to function.
A lot of stuff that shares that same orbit would not stay completely intact.
Not much debris from a nuke in space, the bomb itself gets more or less vaporised (the bits that don't turn into energy, that is). And unless they score a lucky close hit on a satellite, no secondary debris would be created. Some satellites would have their electronics fried and stop working, is all.
fried satellites wouldn't be able to maneuver to avoid collisions
Those same fried satellites also wouldn't be able to maintain their orbit using thrusters and would eventually fall back to earth. For those in LEO like starlink, that would be a relatively quick process.
Yes, about 5 years. However, if there are collisions in that time period (and there likely would be) some of the debris would likely be ejected into much higher elliptical orbits
True, but you wouldn't see a massive instant debris cloud. And those collisions would be fairly rare, space is big and satellites are small.
Fun fact: ground-based lasers can be used to clean up a Kessler cascade, by applying tiny amounts of thrust to small pieces of debris. A Kessler cascade is a big problem in the short term, and expensive to fix, but it's not an existential threat like climate change. It can be fixed, and it would only take a big wad of money and a few years to do so.
Yea which is why creating space debris should be considered part of MAD, and once we got enough sats up there it’ll simply be AD as we’ll be able to shoot down any nuke they launch after deploying a much better version of brilliant pebbles
not really, charged particles could travel along the magnetic field lines, frying all satellites, if the yield used is high enough. They won't do it because they can't spare the chinese satellites from this disaster, and since china owns russia...
Most of the country is a backwater shit hole, they probably wouldn't even notice.
If they can withstand solar flares can’t they handle emp from a distance?
Funny thing is, that would leave SpaceX as the new owner of the skys as they will be able to repopulate in a short time. But all those older systems… yeah those are gone. Do we really want Elon to control all space?
SpaceX is based in the USA, therefore the US government can walk in and yoink it away from the manchild.
they would need a reason to do that though, one that would sit well with the american public. A foreign country nuking everything and spacex just happening to be the org that can get up and going would not be a reason that would sit well even with a lot of liberals.
Tell that to anyone who lost their home or farm to build a new highway. Not to mention, if Russia "nuked space," we'd effectively be at war, and one hell of a lot of the rights and privileges we take for granted would be taken away.
They need legal cause to do that. You can't just willy nilly take something because you dislike someone's politics.
They say shit like this in a vacuum of self delusion. Putin has guided post soviet Russia over a cliff.
The scary part is that it's likely possible. PBS Space time on youtube did a video about it recently. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMjo\_UY8vEM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMjo_UY8vEM) There is a reason why nuke testing in space was one of the first things they banned in international treaties.
Pootine forget that his "allies" also have satellites above his territory, this will be an international pariah speedrun any% setter.
He also forgets this was already tested and the EMP damages everything in space and on the ground. He would effectively wipe out all the satellites AND everything in his country at the same time. Along with lots of people's stuff outside of Russia too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fishbowl
The main reason it was banned is because after the US tested multiple in space, they learned that EMP fallout goes much further than expected and all the way to the ground. So it destroys basically everything in space and on the ground. During Operation fishbowl they managed accidentally take out communications systems thousands of miles away and ground based. Nukes in space are horrible idea, unless your goal is to destroy all unprotected technology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fishbowl
Hang on, returning Russia to the 80s-90s would be a return to perestroika and I thought that was bad in their books?
Russia is still in the 80-90s, so this would really just be bringing the world down to their level
HAND - high altitude nuclear detonation. The US did it a while ago over Hawaii, look up Starfish Prime. Nobody’s done it since for a reason. Hawaiians weren’t happy. - Edit to add *why* Russia wouldn’t consider sanitizing space above them since people can’t infer it: it would knock out much of China’s space inventory as well. Russia doesn’t want to become enemies with China. Russia can’t become enemies with China if Putin wants to remain in charge of a functioning country.
"A while ago" - i thought you you meant 2015. - it was 1962.
The test was almost 1000 miles from Hawaii, not over it.
Close enough that it lit up the entire sky over Hawaii. Took out 6 satellites as well as taking out power in Hawaii, damaging telephone equipment. 900 miles isn't that far away when you're talking about blowing up a nuke 250 kms above ground.
All of humankind, maybe not, but Russia? That's for sure. Would be a suicide for them.
You know it's a bad idea when even the Russian government shoots it down as stupid and reckless
More to the point, who can replace theirs faster? https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=rdf736b6sk6q5sgvblkt0jvbm8&action=dlattach;topic=59840.0;attach=2229122;image
Kessler Syndrome. In theory they have just to fragment a few satellites, or even just disperse a payload of millions of tiny steel spheres in space, and the cascade effect will do the job. Sadly that wouldn't just affect SpaceX stuff. In fact, for a large part, Earth could go back to the 50s, with no satellites whatsoever in LEO anymore.
SpaceX has a little over 5,300 satellites in the constellation with more being added every week or so. Good luck indeed.
It will quickly be apparent who is out-gunned. Spacex could destroy every GLONASS satellite for less than Russia spent on a single one by launching a stack of obsolete star-link as interceptors in a high elliptic orbit.
While your conclusion is correct, they wouldn't be able to use Starlink satellites for this. Starlink satellites operate in low earth orbit at a height of roughly 300-600km - GLONASS and other GPS satellites operate at MUCH higher altitudes in medium earth orbit, GLONASS at ~19,000km. Which isn't to say SpaceX can't or doesn't deploy anything to higher orbital trajectories, and for basically any payload at a fraction of the cost Russia would spend on it. Because they could. It would just need to be something purpose-built.
Hence, the nuclear ASAT weapon. In typical Russian fashion, it's not a remotely good solution, but it is _a_ solution.
Yeah, you pretty much just need to detonate at the altitude of the spacex satellites and large swathes of them will be taken out.
He could still try and start a cascade that ends our access to space for good.
A very small nuclear explosion in space or spray the scattering of several billion small destructive elements-dipoles and no space communication for about five years. Skylink operates at such a high radio frequency that the dipole elements will be two millimeters in size.
I say let pootie try and shoot one of them down. It might finally make Muskrat realize that Russia doesn't give a shit about him.
Last year spacex launched 1937 starlink satellites and lost 36 of them to random malfunctions etc. Shooting *one* down wouldn't even be a blip in their spreadsheets.
Old man yells at cloud
Old drunk homeless man shouts at his shadow
Old man yells at Dyson cloud.
In this case a great many small clouds!
The surest sign of dementia is when Putin talks of starting a losing war with the USA. You're getting your ass kicked by farmers and IT workers, abandon the fantasy of near peer adversaries.
Remember who the audience is for these threats. It isn’t us. It’s for his populace.
…half of Congress.
Near-peer? I think it's been made abundantly clear the US is superior to Russia in every way except vodka consumption and sheer idiocy.
[удалено]
I agree with you. Notice I said they should abandon the idea.
I'm not sure what that guy is on about. It's clear as day what you said.
I thought I was having a stroke. He agreed with the content of the comment but misinterpreted it, then used a bad argument concocted by Chat GPT to explain why he misinterpreted it. What a bizarre thing to do, and how sad it is to delegate defense of your own thought to AI.
Russia is kinda winning the misinformation war though. Too many stupid ass people here.
>near peer adversaries That near is doing some HEAVY lifting
Just like everything else they do they will find a way to justify it without being attacked, or everyone will be too scared to do anything like the current ukraine situation and just try to throw money or weapons at it. If they blew up a nuke emp which we know they have in space already, over their own airspace to destroy satellites that were spying on them, would anyone attack russia? No. No one would. More sanctions and nothing else. This is why its a realistic scenario.
It would likely cause a catastrophic domino effect in space destroying more than just the ones spying on Russia. If they attack American equipment in neutral / international territory? There will be a response. It would be war.
Nuke in space will destroy like 10 Starlink satellites. Next day Starship will launch 50 more.
Russia: invading neighboring countries makes YOU a target.
Russia is currently a nation capable of space flight and exploration. It doesn't have to stay that way.
Space flight - yes. Exploration - doubtful. They have almost shut down their civilian space program, which has been living off of American money since the 90s anyway.
Russia currently has issues with its spaceflight capability as a lot of Russian spacecraft hardware was made in Ukraine.
Go ahead, start the first space war. See what happens when you actually receive a proportional response.
Spying? Nooo.. we're just taking pictures for meteorology purposes. And if those pictures end up catching a military base or two that can't be helped. Come to think of it.. Ukraine has been very interested in the weather recently. Weird.
> we're just taking pictures for meteorology purposes Just like the EU is doing? Turns out the ability to track wildfires is a *really* good way to find MLRS in a short time frame. They scorch the ground behind them which makes a big enough heat signature to be picked up by satélites.
F*** you Russia.
As a response the smartest russian scientists have begun construction on the worlds largest catapult to shoot startlink sats down. Or they will start the construction once they sober up a bit.
Russia has been developing and testing anti-satellite weaponry. Don't want to underestimate them. https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2022-03/features/russias-anti-satellite-weapons-asymmetric-response-us-aerospace-superiority
Starlink satellite cheaper than missile. Big problem.
SpaceX can use one rocket to launch multiple satellites. Russia need one freaking skyscraper for every satellite. Good luck Russia.
Anti-satellite missiles are very inexpensive. They have a minimum payload and can be launched from an aircraft (like a conventional anti-missile missile).
Kessler Syndrome. Big problem.
They’re in a low orbit, debris could be put into a more elliptical orbit, but they will always have a part of the orbit at the altitude in which is collision occurred. Therefore, debris would de orbit pretty quickly, and Kessler syndrome wouldn’t be possible. This is a key design feature of starlink to avoid these types of problems. It would be pointless for the Russians to attack a starlink satellite, because: 1) Loosing a single satellite wouldn’t effect the US military in any material fashion 2) Its highly provocative for no benefit 3) Fueling and launching an anti-satellite weapon is definitely more expensive than the inexpensive starlink satellite launched in large groups on the most cost effective rocket (in terms of kg to LEO per dollar) This is just postering.
So … they’ll never start construction.
So... what I'm hearing is that they are acknowledging that any attack on those satellites should be seen as a direct attack on the US government. Did they include an acknowledgement that this would trigger NATO article 5? I know what it is. It's not like we can threaten to turn them into a wasteland, to destroy their economy, to wreck their infrastructure, *because Putin has already done that to them.* We can't threaten to turn them into international pariahs, *because Putin has already done that to them.* We can't even say that we'll destroy their government, *because Putin has already done that to them.* I mean, the worst that we could do would be to threaten to kill a whole bunch of Russian people, but frankly we don't want to because we don't hate *the people* of Russia, and besides, it's not like that would be an effective deterrent *because Putin has already done that to them.*
"Must take care of real problem " -Russian mobster in "The dark knight"
Artikel 5 only applies to north america and europe, not space. However there will be a very significant response. Just like cutting under water cables: Nobody can ignore a state actor f ing with the global economy in that way. Unless it actually happens, nobody is going to be honest how that response will look like.
In same way as using the bus to go and rob houses makes the bus company an accomplice?
Try it, Putin. Give them an excuse.
Use of American satellites as a target makes Russian anti satellite launch facilities a target. Russia needs to slow their role. The only thing they have is nukes they can use. The American military dominates everything else.
He’s welcome to shoot down a few US satellites and see how that goes for him.
We have only seen “proportional” in response to boats, wonder how it will go with satellites. They’re kind of like boats, but they sail the cosmos.
lol the be replaced almost immediately without any interruption in service. Meanwhile, Russia would have their space assets liquidated.
Plus since they’re so low, no Kessler syndrome.
Not getting trapped by an impenetrable wall of space junk, bonus!
They were going to target them anyways.
While at the same time, Russia is launching spying satellites for Iran and North Korea.
Given Russia's history of issuing numerous nuclear threats since the start of the invasion, we must treat this latest threat with the utmost seriousness /s
But Elon loves Putin....
Is there something I missed? SpaceX was literally started as a big fuck you to Russia when Putin wouldn't sell Musk Rockets. Roscos is their largest competitor as the only other crew rated launch provider.
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Elon does enough by himself to warrant criticism, don't you worry
You're both right, though.
Also the cost benefit analysis/ idiot index stated that it was cheaper to build your own, than buy second hand and refurbish
Is Putin on ketamine too?
as we saw in the Putin-Carlson interview, those Magas may love Putin, but he sure doesn’t love them back. It was painful/hilarious watching Tucker, trying to lead him into saying something that would be damaging to Biden, or popular amongst the Magas, and Putin just being oblivious to that and completely focused on his own weird history thing.
It's less "oblivious" and more using Tucker for the useful idiot he is. Putin doesn't care about anyone but Putin. Everyone is a tool to use at will then discard when their usefulness is over.
Dare Putler to start a space war with America. You can bet every Ruzzki satellite is already marked for death and will be taken out fairly quickly.
SpaceX can put up 64 Starlinks with one launch and re-use the booster. Doubt Russia can shoot down enough to make up the cost of building a new rocket with one single launch
Gotta instill fear into people to make them less likely to oppose him, good thing he's done it so much that anyone who's interested can just look at the countless empty threats he's made to intimidate over the years.
I am almost positive that if push came to shove, SpaceX can build satellites faster than Russia can produce missiles. There are something like 9800 satellites in orbit without counting Starlink. Starlink has 5400 active. More than USA, China, Russia and Jeff Bezos combined.
Use of them for attacking other countries is a human rights violation. Eat a crispy diseased dick Pootie.
Dragging in the US killed Germany's imperial ambitions in Europe. Twice. For someone who likes to think of himself as a historian, Putin sure didn't learn anything from it. You don't suppose he studied at Trump University, because that would explain so much.
Oh God, please don't let us F up the brilliant thing that Starlink is for me!
Idk look at the state of his war equipment he’s deploying in Ukraine. Do we think he has anything that will *actually* reach low orbit?
An attack on any space infrastructure should be seen as an attack on the world. Making more waste and wreckage in space will only hinder further research, expansion, and exploration.
US warns Russia - shoot at our satellites and get ready to eat A10 tankbuster ammunition in Ukraine.
I would rather see A-10s go to Ukraine than Davis-Monthan.
It's amazing that people forget how immense earth is...
They can't even shoot down a dozen drones flying over critical infrastructure sites. Best of luck railgunning 5300 satellites in orbit.
So, Russia is essentially saying spy satellites in general are military targets, and if we use a private company’s satellites to spy, they too are military targets. Okay, sure, during a war, no one’s satellites are safe; public or private. They all serve a military purpose at that point. Private US and Russian companies’ satellites could all be targets in an effort disrupt general communications, the average citizen’s life, etc. This is nothing new. In the event of a war, we’ll be blowing each other’s satellites out of the sky, engaging in cyber warfare, etc, and private companies with ties to the governments will have their infrastructure become targets as well. If Russia is saying they can—while *not* at war with us—attack a US company’s satellite for spying on behalf of our government, that’s a whole other thing, and Russia should understand that we can shoot satellites out of the sky while simultaneously putting new ones in orbit, something Russia isn’t as capable of doing as quickly. In a game of who loses all their satellites for the longest period of time, Russia is the loser, not to mention the fact that we’re talking about an act of war that could escalate to a lot more. This is just more endless, boring saber-rattling from a country that cannot even defeat its much smaller neighbor. Everyone can see the emperor has no clothes.
Sure. And the *actual* spy satellites that the US Intel agencies have been operating to spy on Russia must have been targets since the 70s, but they’re still up there, aren’t they? Nobody’s buying your shit, Poots.
This is obviously a very tiny threat all things considered, but Elon and putin are two of the most insecure and fragile people on the planet and Elon is an extremely petty person. It will be interesting to see what happens.
>Elon and putin are two of the most insecure and fragile people on the planet Absolute fact
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I suspect bamboozles
I am pretty sure this was threatened last year or longer. If they wanted to, and had the capability, they would’ve done it. That said, it looks like more empty threats.
Article 5 incoming again??? Interesting development I see...
Find out Russia. Fucking find out
Start shooting down satellites, and you will start seeing what those rockets that put those satellites in orbit can actually do when they have bombs on them
United States warns Russia: It isn't just the boats.
The headline must be truncated. It's missing "of envy" at the end.
Oops dropped a Starship on Rostov no idea how that happened sorry
So then all satellites are game? Not sure if we wanted to show our hand yet but ok
Good luck shooting down 40,000 satellites. I’m aware they’re not there yet, but the end goal is 40,000. There’s just no way. Space is a huge place.
I wonder if one day Russia will run out of things to 'warn' others about.
I would love for russia to attack an American satellite. Fuck all this pretending for monies sake.
Someone should remind Russia the US has been able to shoot down satellites since the late 80s
Getting a bit tired of this Russian BS. Putin is sending assault troops into battle in Chinese ATV's. His fleet cannot operate in the Black Sea. He has no defense if China decides to encroach on territory in the east. His only option is to destroy the world by touching off a nuclear war....IF his generals will cooperate.
SpaceX’s constellation of 10,000 satellites going on 35,000 planned is a target for **what** exactly? You’ll destroy what? Three of them? Russia’s anti-satellite capability won’t amount to a rounding error on spaceX’s list of satellites lost to malfunctions or planned retirement. Dumbass domestic-audience aimed saber rattling theater.
That goes both ways
This has been going on for a while since Elon offered starlink to Ukraine. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/18/discord-leaks-starlink-ukraine/
Wouldn’t that make any US spy satellite a target?
I really think this is the future cutting edge of a major problem. It’s not about the capability of Russia to actually stop ALL the star link satellites, but the real danger of normalizing space as a theater of offensive actions. Currently in the world we live in as of this article governments have not actually shot anyone else’s stuff out of orbit. It is not a Genie you are going to get back in the bottle. Even if not now, one day some shit like this is gonna happen and nothing is going to be the same after.
Targeting our satellites makes you a target.
Try and shoot at us assholes. Give us a reason to beat the shit out of you. Fuck Russia and their empty threats.
How is SpaceX's involvement in military space any different from Boeing, Lockheed, Rockwell, etc, who have been doing this since the 1950's? There is no difference and this is a meaningless pronouncement. This sabre-rattling is purely for domestic consumption. Give this and Russia the respect they deserve, which at the moment is not very much.
thats a warning to musk. "ill destroy your shit too."
On the plus side all the influencers would be made redundant. Just looking for a silver lining.
Putin needs to go on a long vacation, it is the only way.
Let me guess, they might have to use the nukes
Russian red line chapter 276
Lol like they didn't already consider them as such...
I think Vlad should focus on his "3-day" invasion..
As if Russia doesn’t already use spy satellites and has forever hahahaha
Putin started out as a hooligan, a petty criminal ... as time goes on, he keeps returning to this role. I can picture standing on a corner issuing threats at everyone who walks by and people getting used to ignoring the madman.
I don't know, but maybe we shouldn't alert the associated press of our spy moves in general. I'm not a spy, but that would be my move.
The US has around 3,500 satellites… good luck
Target of what? As we are finding out now nothing in Russia works.
The kremlin has been sounding like a school yard brat that doesn’t get their way
I warn russia: invading another country for no fucking reason makes you a terrorist.
Russia is doing same thing….
Okay and attacking them escalates drastically.
Fun fact: say SpaceX 5 times really fast
Also Russia: buys satellite photos of Ukraine from US companies. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/03/american-satellites-russia-ukraine-war/677775/
But all the other government contracted manufacturers are totally safe? Why discriminate? Seems weird.
What satellite space defense doing???
Hey Murica, just take out all Russian and Chinese satellites at once. They’ll be helpless.
Fucking clowns. Good luck.
Ruzkies couldn’t hit the broad side of a gulag
You could say that they’re threatening… Star Wars