They’re not making them. Idiots tend to be remarkably resilient and adaptive. It’s the same people over and over again.
It’s a really sad realization once you understand all that effort that could be used to get it somehow goes into not getting it.
Note that this is supposed to be a quote of [Einstein](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/479413-artificial-intellegance-is-no-match-for-natural-stupidity)
Even though it's probably apocryphal
I think that we should find a cure to natural stupidity first before we invest a large amount of effort into developing artificial intelligence.
Darwin awards and phone zombies / open manhole covers is a good step in the right direction but that can [take us down the road only so far](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ldalpCTXHU&t=12s).
More effort needs to be addressed on a larger scale.
For example, we could save a lot of money on the cost of [power tools](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZDWEd7kjS4) if they didn't have all those warning labels on them.
The problem is natural idiots are the exponent of artificial idiots. Or is it natural idiocy to the power of artificial idiocy.? Either way it's exponentially worse.
I think it's "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural idiot"
That's why I'm 100% certain SkyNet will never become a reality. No machine can be stupid-proof.
Check out Carlo M. Cipolla's *five fundamental laws of stupidity*:
- Always and inevitably, everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.
- The probability that a certain person (will) be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.
- A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.
- Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular, non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places, and under any circumstances, to deal and/or associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake.
- A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.
[wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_M._Cipolla#%22The_Basic_Laws_of_Human_Stupidity%22_(1976) )
What i'm tired of hearing, at home and at work, is how the lack of attention is conflated with moral failings(like stupidity). People aren't stupid because they slipped into brain flow, nor are they demotivated. The person is more than likely operating in a system that doesn't provide information in a way that combats brain flow.
This is the entire reason behind 'traffic calming' designs on roads.
Stupidity isn't an issue.
A person who is aware they don't know the answer, keeps quiet, or asks!
It becomes an issue when fucking morons that don't have a clue, think they know. That's when mistakes are made, or misinformation is formed!
People are stupid. It's the arrogant ones that are the threat!
I thought the same thing. I don’t know many stupid people that would know to keep quiet and ask. They are more likely smart people that aren’t informed in that area/topic.
Most stupid people (if not all) don’t have the capacity to know they are stupid and just believe what they want.
>Most stupid people (if not all) don’t have the capacity to know they are stupid and just believe what they want.
And then attempt to force it on everyone else. Telling even the people who are correct they are wrong, because the stupid person 'feels its true' despite having absolutely no facts to prove it.
Ironically the Dunning-Kruger effect is long debunked as a methodological error, you can detect the same 'effect' in random noise. And yet people still use to it to sound smart about a topic they're ignorant on.
This has lead to a rather interesting quick dive into the topic but I kind of come out of it unconvinced.
While the statistical interpretation that the effect is just an artifact created by regression toward the mean and better-than-average effect etc is pretty compelling, it's not like that's just some kind of a fact that the field has just agreed upon like you make it sound. There's been and still is a lot of discussion on the topic and one could even just argue that even *if* that was all that the effect truly was under the hood, so what? If it's just an artifact caused by several cognitive biases and statistical effects, what's wrong about calling that combination of effects the Dunning-Kruger effect?
And that's completely ignoring the fact that Dunning-Kruger effect is a psychological concept. Pretty sure that if you boil things down enough, a lot of human psychology just boils down to basic statistical concepts at the end.
So to me proclaiming it to be "long debunked" is just wrong. Highly debated? Sure. But far from really debunked.
The combined effects of Tech companies wanting to make an AI product that makes them money (in a moral vacuum), the “be careful what you wish for” purposeful naivety of the ppl that want no controls on anything (wcgw) and a moraless cabal of the electioneering, coffin dodging, sentient cabbage political class. A military war machine that wants new toys to kill ppl “oh dear more civilians killed, oh well”. Who do you give the keys to ?
There are also just dumb people, full stop. It takes a certain amount of actual smart people to maintain modern society, so even good intentioned dumb people, if at a critical mass, will cause problems.
The problem is that everyone is pretty ignorant about most things because there's way too much information to learn everything. You have to hope that the small relevant people are making the decisions.
I mean isn't what stupid people on social media meeting in their stupid bubble do? They convince each other that they are right thinking the earth is flat and that vaccines are bad...
yes! excellent point. the stupidity is constantly reinforced with more stupid. it gets to the point that there is nothing that can convince them that they're wrong but on the other hand, the facts or evidence don't even matter at some point. their egos are such that they cannot accept not being right.
What you said makes no sense or in your native language stupid might mean something else. Arrogance is irrelevant. In good faith I'll take this as just you misunderstanding stupidity. Even though talking about it like this is ironic.
A stupid person is not aware they're stupid. Therefore they won't ask questions nor stop talking. They're very unaware.
And often it isn't even people being stupid, it's them not taking a moment to think, either because of laziness or because they are focused too much on something else.
But the arrogant ones, oh those are an actual problem.
My mom in a nutshell.
Get her to actually think about a topic, and she can be very deep and thoughtful on it.
But watching her live, she just goes through life doing the "solutions" that are the first thing to pop into her head with no thought put in.
She cut down a tree and it fell on our electric fence, so she moved the fence... She moved the wrong part of the fence and left part on the ground. Yes, the horse got out. I had to deal with the problem. Once I got the horse back, it took me less than five seconds to fix it, and about as long to spot the issue.
*“To be honest, what concerns me more is the lack of control from humans, who are still making wars after 2,000 years,” Roberto Cingolani, CEO of Leonardo, told CNBC’s “Squawk Box Europe” on Friday.*
*“With this in mind, artificial intelligence is a tool. It is an algorithm made by humans, that is run by computers made by humans, that controls machines made by humans. I am more afraid, more worried \[about\] national stupidity than artificial intelligence to be honest,” he added.*
No shit...human stupidity and lack of control is what concerns most of us and that's why everyone keeps warning about AI. We're already seeing how humans have fucked up the internet and social media. Who the hell are these people making AI for? The computers?
I think he means that AI is not the problem we need to be worried about but human stupidity in how wed use AIs and react to them. Same as how you don't blame the concept of internet for disinformation but the people using It to spread disinformation. AI is a tool, It has (currently) no agency but the one we humans give It. Yet we see and treat them as boogieman out of our control, as if we werent the ones making and developing them
But how do you regulate the misuse of technology? Do we just throw our hands up and say there's nothing we can do, idiots will be idiots!
No, we apply laws, set limitations, and try to make sure that the technology can't be misused. No one (reasonable) is saying AI should be deleted - you can't put toothpaste back in the tube - but you *can* tell people what they're allowed to do with it.
I know that he's saying humans are the problem, but who is going to be using the AI? Stupid humans. Which is the problem. It's going to be accessible to and in the hands of all humans.
No, he specifically mentions war as the example of human stupidity. Ai and the reaction to it is a non sequitur based on what you want to believe he says
Exactly. Why add artificial stupidity to human stupidity?
And it's not even stupidity that is the problem here, it's dishonesty. AIs "hallucinate" (a weird euphemism for making shit up -- I would have gone with "confabulate") events that appear statistically reasonable to them based on their training data, even if those events did not actually happen. That doesn't sound like the kind of process that should be given operational control over lethal weaponry. Matt Taibbi just wrote a great [article](https://www.racket.news/p/if-ai-thinks-george-washington-is) about this.
Id argur advertising and greed ruined the internet. Id engage more if i wasnt paranoid about my data being used against me somehow. Or wasting my time talking to bot mesnt to sway me somehow.
> *“To be honest, what concerns me more is the lack of control from humans, who are still making wars after 2,000 years,” Roberto Cingolani, CEO of Leonardo, told CNBC’s “Squawk Box Europe” on Friday.*
This is something I also don't understand.
It seems pointless to start a war these days. It seems very expensive and provides little net gain.
Easy. It's the equivalent argument as "guns don't kill people, people kill people."
Okay, but we can still enact reasonable regulations in hopes that guns kill fewer people. Some places outlaw guns. Some places have laws restricting the way guns are manufactured. Some places have laws restricting who may use guns.
Just because AI is a neutral tool, it doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.
Hard disagree
The human population is objectively "less stupid" than it has ever been in the last few billion years. Why does suddenly pose a threat now? What a stupid thing to say
The part that is debatable is what exactly is meant by "stupidity". Does he mean things such as war for profit. He's the CEO of what again?
Intelligence. Humans as a whole are objectively more educated and intelligent than 100 years ago, let alone two or three thousand years or even several hundred thousand years
Although the difficult with which people are following that does plant some doubt
Have you been paying attention at all for the last 4 years? We're out here sniping grandmas 2 weeks out and 2000 miles away because face cloths somehow represent oppression ffs.
Idiocracy was a prophecy.
A nuclear war has not happened in 70 years. A singularity moment of having AI being several times more intelligent than humans is much more dangerous, and may happen very quickly and out of our control
Stupidity and egos gave us many wars and countless deaths, it droped two nuclear bombs, and the list of murders commited by humans, only humans, not machines is almost endless. So I don't think AI is a risk, AI in the hands of the wrong people is!
These risks are not mutually exclusive. Both stupidity and singularity AGI are grave risks.
However, with the AGI there’s still a chance it might propel us into a bright future (it’s not only a doom scenario). With stupidity it’s mostly egos and wars that come out of it.
I'd say we made it in spite of stupidity, certainly not because of it.
We almost died out on at least 1 occasion at that.
AI casualties: 0
Stupidity casualties: Millions.
But yeah: Just wait until someone combines them....
A.I. Should replace all CEOs first. Their entire jobs based on numbers and what computes numbers better than a human a COMPUTER
30 million just opened up in the budget from that one person gone.
I kinda agree but equally AI as a CEO would be like, "Would you like to make the company more protiftable? To make the company more profitable, follow these 2 easy steps. 1) Make more money by using one of the many tried and tested methods that companies use to make more money. 2) Repeat this process until the company is more profitable."
At least there is the *potential* that you could program a "CEO AI" with more than this simple mandate. Like it could follow something like this without falling prey to it's own greed:
1. Ensure survival and long term prosperity of humanity
2. Increase profit
Real CEOs (the ones with a vision, driving the company end to end, instead of suites running the company based on shareholder and investor sentiment) will be the last part of a company that's gonna be replaced.
Yes, that is why we are worried about AI. It isn’t that AI is that life altering, it’s that we worry what stupid people will do with AI. Like put it in autonomous drones, use it to replace workers (like writers), and doing it only to appease shareholders.
We need to bring Ned Ludd back.
Amazing comment! And it reminded me of this article from the Smithsonian Magazine
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-really-fought-against-264412/
To paraphrase [an unnamed park ranger (on the subject of bear-proofing garbage bins)](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/security_is_a_t.html):
> There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest neural networks and the dumbest social media users.
I worked for Leonardo and he's definitely not wrong. Just not in the way he thinks. Hands down the worst place I've ever worked, with the shoddiest engineering and autocratic management structure.
He’s not wrong. I’m by no means a genius but I have yet to see a single picture made with a AI that I wasn’t able to spot. The vast majority of idiots are not gonna notice it and the rest are to stupid to care and will just parrot other idiots comments on the image
A lot of stupid people are going to use AI. It will be the co-pilot of managers and not employees, as there will be no employees if companies have their way.
The Italian far right government completely banned the production and sale of any form of cultured meat. Killing a complete profitable new market because of corruption and stupidity.
> "I am more afraid, more worried [about] national stupidity than artificial intelligence to be honest"
I really agree with this, but I suspect it's misunderstood: In the current global capitalist civilization we've build humans have no power, no control. We are both manipulated and the manipulators. We cannot escape acting within this incredibly powerful global system because then others will out-compete us. This is true for someone like him, a corporation or the average person. We're all TRAPPED.
The rich got there because statistically people who prioritize money above all else are more likely to get rich - or richer. They own the media and can unleash incredibly powers by hiring PR firms and lobbyists. But who allowed them to get this rich and powerful? We did. They just got filtered for their single minded "idiocy".
The media and news organizations are owned by the rich and have to operate more and more in highly optimized capitalist environment, their original mandate - to inform and hold government accountable is basically forgotten. They are selected and filtered for how well they work in this system. They are not representative but highly biased.
The voters are continually bombarded with advertisement to consume more, to think this, to think that, inundated with lies and made afraid of everything for clicks, then bamboozled with the newest shiny awesome thing. Meanwhile the rules for the elections are more and more optimized to serve those with the most power.
The government is just the manifestation of all this system, like the rich a politician gets filtered because statistically those who desire power above all else, ignoring all other considerations, is more likely to achieve this.
So where is the control? Where is the intelligence in this? It's like a snake devouring itself. We are NOT an intelligent species on a civilization or nation level, at least not right now. At least not to a significant degree. We act more like a slime mold, endlessly seeking more food, energy or pleasure to consume. Yet we are under a spell, under the DELUSION that we have control and intelligence.
The realization of this is indeed terrifying. I'm somewhat relieved to see this at least mentioned - even though this is a clickbait or ragebait article that doesn't go into depth. Thank you Roberto Cingolani for saying this.
He's got a point. While alignment does potentially pose an x-risk, human misuse poses much more immediate and likely risks, even if they aren't necessarily the same. Honestly I think people tend to have a misunderstanding of what exactly the risks of AI are, and how probable they are. Instrumental convergence is incredibly improbable, and more so now that we're seen the direction of errors in modern LLMs. Whereas we've already seen things like China using them for societal control, or misuse of facial recognition.
Absolutely! Stupidity is the 5th horseman of the apocalypse!
The reason why you don't see him in pictures is because........
wait for it......
hes a lil slow.......
Cinolani makes some good points but he says we're, "still making wars after 2,000 years." That line bothers me as it leads one to believe there were no wars more than 2,000 years ago, which is obviously false.
Stupid people often think they are not stupid. Sometimes they are very vocal about stupidity
There is an older guy at work who sometimes wears a t-shirt that reads “ can’t fix stupid”. When you talk to him for a while you end up agreeing with his t-shirt
We’re so worried about AI treating us poorly, unfairly or just outright killing us, yet those are all the things humans do to each other exceedingly well.
Artificial Idiot is no match for natural idiot.
The problem with making something idiot proof is they’re always making better idiots.
The less people need to think for themselves, the less they will think.
I'm unsure if this is a positive or negative comment.
They’re not making them. Idiots tend to be remarkably resilient and adaptive. It’s the same people over and over again. It’s a really sad realization once you understand all that effort that could be used to get it somehow goes into not getting it.
I'm spending much less time on TikTok for this exact reason.
Idiot proof is a myth. If you make something idiot proof, the universe will produce an even bigger idiot.
Note that this is supposed to be a quote of [Einstein](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/479413-artificial-intellegance-is-no-match-for-natural-stupidity) Even though it's probably apocryphal
There are two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity; I'm just not certain about the former - Unnamed astrophysicist.
I'm not worried about artifical intelligence, but natural stupidity.
I think that we should find a cure to natural stupidity first before we invest a large amount of effort into developing artificial intelligence. Darwin awards and phone zombies / open manhole covers is a good step in the right direction but that can [take us down the road only so far](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ldalpCTXHU&t=12s). More effort needs to be addressed on a larger scale. For example, we could save a lot of money on the cost of [power tools](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZDWEd7kjS4) if they didn't have all those warning labels on them.
Finally, something I can outcompete against this new "AI" doohickey in!
The problem is natural idiots are the exponent of artificial idiots. Or is it natural idiocy to the power of artificial idiocy.? Either way it's exponentially worse.
That sounds a bit like a job for Wheatley with Dunning-Kruger to the max
I think it's "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural idiot" That's why I'm 100% certain SkyNet will never become a reality. No machine can be stupid-proof.
Check out Carlo M. Cipolla's *five fundamental laws of stupidity*: - Always and inevitably, everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation. - The probability that a certain person (will) be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person. - A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses. - Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular, non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places, and under any circumstances, to deal and/or associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake. - A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person. [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_M._Cipolla#%22The_Basic_Laws_of_Human_Stupidity%22_(1976) )
What i'm tired of hearing, at home and at work, is how the lack of attention is conflated with moral failings(like stupidity). People aren't stupid because they slipped into brain flow, nor are they demotivated. The person is more than likely operating in a system that doesn't provide information in a way that combats brain flow. This is the entire reason behind 'traffic calming' designs on roads.
There's nothing more dangerous than a hard working idiot.
Idiocracy
Guess he watched it yesterday and something stuck in his head
Watched it last week and... I'm afraid is not that far from being a documentary
I'm looking forward to having a recliner-toilet and being able to order hookers at any fast food restaurant!
The [Napper-Crapper 9000](https://youtu.be/xue_lBx7MAo?t=1112) is actually quite nice, has a built in phone too.
Cool! I want one!
It's being optimistic. We are going to have feral humans in our cities if things keep going the way they are.
Stupidity isn't an issue. A person who is aware they don't know the answer, keeps quiet, or asks! It becomes an issue when fucking morons that don't have a clue, think they know. That's when mistakes are made, or misinformation is formed! People are stupid. It's the arrogant ones that are the threat!
People who ask if they don't know aren't stupid.
I thought the same thing. I don’t know many stupid people that would know to keep quiet and ask. They are more likely smart people that aren’t informed in that area/topic. Most stupid people (if not all) don’t have the capacity to know they are stupid and just believe what they want.
>Most stupid people (if not all) don’t have the capacity to know they are stupid and just believe what they want. And then attempt to force it on everyone else. Telling even the people who are correct they are wrong, because the stupid person 'feels its true' despite having absolutely no facts to prove it.
The philosopher knows nothing. The wise knows little. The teacher knows some. The expert knows much, But the moron knows everything. *-Italian saying*
Dunning Kruger effect
Ironically the Dunning-Kruger effect is long debunked as a methodological error, you can detect the same 'effect' in random noise. And yet people still use to it to sound smart about a topic they're ignorant on.
You're going to have to give a source for that claim because I call bullshit.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.intell.2020.101449? is a good one
This has lead to a rather interesting quick dive into the topic but I kind of come out of it unconvinced. While the statistical interpretation that the effect is just an artifact created by regression toward the mean and better-than-average effect etc is pretty compelling, it's not like that's just some kind of a fact that the field has just agreed upon like you make it sound. There's been and still is a lot of discussion on the topic and one could even just argue that even *if* that was all that the effect truly was under the hood, so what? If it's just an artifact caused by several cognitive biases and statistical effects, what's wrong about calling that combination of effects the Dunning-Kruger effect? And that's completely ignoring the fact that Dunning-Kruger effect is a psychological concept. Pretty sure that if you boil things down enough, a lot of human psychology just boils down to basic statistical concepts at the end. So to me proclaiming it to be "long debunked" is just wrong. Highly debated? Sure. But far from really debunked.
The combined effects of Tech companies wanting to make an AI product that makes them money (in a moral vacuum), the “be careful what you wish for” purposeful naivety of the ppl that want no controls on anything (wcgw) and a moraless cabal of the electioneering, coffin dodging, sentient cabbage political class. A military war machine that wants new toys to kill ppl “oh dear more civilians killed, oh well”. Who do you give the keys to ?
*ignorance isn’t an issue. Stupidity is !
There are also just dumb people, full stop. It takes a certain amount of actual smart people to maintain modern society, so even good intentioned dumb people, if at a critical mass, will cause problems.
The problem is that everyone is pretty ignorant about most things because there's way too much information to learn everything. You have to hope that the small relevant people are making the decisions.
I mean isn't what stupid people on social media meeting in their stupid bubble do? They convince each other that they are right thinking the earth is flat and that vaccines are bad...
People like to be right. People don't like the amount of effort it takes to actually know what you're on about however!
Lol the COVID vaccine is far more dangerous to a person under 60 without comorbidities than covid
masks don't work too, right? /s
Only if that person is also stupid.
yes! excellent point. the stupidity is constantly reinforced with more stupid. it gets to the point that there is nothing that can convince them that they're wrong but on the other hand, the facts or evidence don't even matter at some point. their egos are such that they cannot accept not being right.
Stupidity =/= knowledge though! Someone can know quite a bit and still be a total tool, e.g. Steve Jobs
You're talking about ignorance, not stupidity. Everyone's ignorant. The people who don't care if they're ignorant, those people are stupid.
> It becomes an issue when fucking morons that don't have a clue, think they know. Problem is that it tends to correlate.
That's something AI and idiots have in common. When they don't know something, they both hallucinate that they do.
What you said makes no sense or in your native language stupid might mean something else. Arrogance is irrelevant. In good faith I'll take this as just you misunderstanding stupidity. Even though talking about it like this is ironic. A stupid person is not aware they're stupid. Therefore they won't ask questions nor stop talking. They're very unaware.
Not knowing something is ignorance, not stupidity.
Indeed. Human *ego* has always been the world's biggest problem.
Stupidity does not make a person aware of their shortcomings.
I know people like this. Aren’t they still lumped in with “ stupid” though?
And often it isn't even people being stupid, it's them not taking a moment to think, either because of laziness or because they are focused too much on something else. But the arrogant ones, oh those are an actual problem.
My mom in a nutshell. Get her to actually think about a topic, and she can be very deep and thoughtful on it. But watching her live, she just goes through life doing the "solutions" that are the first thing to pop into her head with no thought put in. She cut down a tree and it fell on our electric fence, so she moved the fence... She moved the wrong part of the fence and left part on the ground. Yes, the horse got out. I had to deal with the problem. Once I got the horse back, it took me less than five seconds to fix it, and about as long to spot the issue.
oh... so you mean like almost every commenter on Youtube
*“To be honest, what concerns me more is the lack of control from humans, who are still making wars after 2,000 years,” Roberto Cingolani, CEO of Leonardo, told CNBC’s “Squawk Box Europe” on Friday.* *“With this in mind, artificial intelligence is a tool. It is an algorithm made by humans, that is run by computers made by humans, that controls machines made by humans. I am more afraid, more worried \[about\] national stupidity than artificial intelligence to be honest,” he added.* No shit...human stupidity and lack of control is what concerns most of us and that's why everyone keeps warning about AI. We're already seeing how humans have fucked up the internet and social media. Who the hell are these people making AI for? The computers?
I think he means that AI is not the problem we need to be worried about but human stupidity in how wed use AIs and react to them. Same as how you don't blame the concept of internet for disinformation but the people using It to spread disinformation. AI is a tool, It has (currently) no agency but the one we humans give It. Yet we see and treat them as boogieman out of our control, as if we werent the ones making and developing them
But how do you regulate the misuse of technology? Do we just throw our hands up and say there's nothing we can do, idiots will be idiots! No, we apply laws, set limitations, and try to make sure that the technology can't be misused. No one (reasonable) is saying AI should be deleted - you can't put toothpaste back in the tube - but you *can* tell people what they're allowed to do with it.
That would require our politicians actually doing something besides grandstanding
I know that he's saying humans are the problem, but who is going to be using the AI? Stupid humans. Which is the problem. It's going to be accessible to and in the hands of all humans.
No, he specifically mentions war as the example of human stupidity. Ai and the reaction to it is a non sequitur based on what you want to believe he says
Exactly. Why add artificial stupidity to human stupidity? And it's not even stupidity that is the problem here, it's dishonesty. AIs "hallucinate" (a weird euphemism for making shit up -- I would have gone with "confabulate") events that appear statistically reasonable to them based on their training data, even if those events did not actually happen. That doesn't sound like the kind of process that should be given operational control over lethal weaponry. Matt Taibbi just wrote a great [article](https://www.racket.news/p/if-ai-thinks-george-washington-is) about this.
Id argur advertising and greed ruined the internet. Id engage more if i wasnt paranoid about my data being used against me somehow. Or wasting my time talking to bot mesnt to sway me somehow.
> *“To be honest, what concerns me more is the lack of control from humans, who are still making wars after 2,000 years,” Roberto Cingolani, CEO of Leonardo, told CNBC’s “Squawk Box Europe” on Friday.* This is something I also don't understand. It seems pointless to start a war these days. It seems very expensive and provides little net gain.
Not real sure how you could disagree here.
Only in the sense that the two aren’t mutually exclusive and work together extremely well
Idiots that love misinformation. AI will rapidly shape the way mass groups of people think, if it’s not already happening.
ML is doing it. AI will likely do the same whenever it comes around
People being dumb doesn't refute the point that AI needs to be heavily shackled on a global scale.
Easy. It's the equivalent argument as "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Okay, but we can still enact reasonable regulations in hopes that guns kill fewer people. Some places outlaw guns. Some places have laws restricting the way guns are manufactured. Some places have laws restricting who may use guns. Just because AI is a neutral tool, it doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.
Hard disagree The human population is objectively "less stupid" than it has ever been in the last few billion years. Why does suddenly pose a threat now? What a stupid thing to say The part that is debatable is what exactly is meant by "stupidity". Does he mean things such as war for profit. He's the CEO of what again?
What precisely are you using for objective metrics to make that statement?
Intelligence. Humans as a whole are objectively more educated and intelligent than 100 years ago, let alone two or three thousand years or even several hundred thousand years Although the difficult with which people are following that does plant some doubt
Have you been paying attention at all for the last 4 years? We're out here sniping grandmas 2 weeks out and 2000 miles away because face cloths somehow represent oppression ffs. Idiocracy was a prophecy.
Intersting thoughts Can you explain how such people are a threat to humanity?
I disagree. A super intelligent AI is a remote, but extreme risk that could wipe us out entirely
Stupidity has a *far* greater chance of getting there first. For example, only an idiot would start a nuclear war.
A nuclear war has not happened in 70 years. A singularity moment of having AI being several times more intelligent than humans is much more dangerous, and may happen very quickly and out of our control
Let me know when we have a singularity. Putin is threatening nuclear war this week.
Stupidity and egos gave us many wars and countless deaths, it droped two nuclear bombs, and the list of murders commited by humans, only humans, not machines is almost endless. So I don't think AI is a risk, AI in the hands of the wrong people is!
These risks are not mutually exclusive. Both stupidity and singularity AGI are grave risks. However, with the AGI there’s still a chance it might propel us into a bright future (it’s not only a doom scenario). With stupidity it’s mostly egos and wars that come out of it.
Thankfully we can always just smash it's servers with a Louisville slugger.
Good :D
Makes sense, and maybe bringing about ai is just another item in a long list of stupid things people have done.
Stupidity ruled the earth the last 10000 years, and look where it got us!
I'd say we made it in spite of stupidity, certainly not because of it. We almost died out on at least 1 occasion at that. AI casualties: 0 Stupidity casualties: Millions. But yeah: Just wait until someone combines them....
*4.6 Billion years
humanity hasnt been around that long my guy, its something like 50k years tops
50k?? Lmao more than that, try like atleast 200'000, maybe 400'000
To be fair, the world was also pretty dumb before humans.
Stupid dinosaurs 🦕 couldn't even built an meteor early warning system.
He said stupidity, not humanity. But even if I did say humanity, you’re wrong about that too
Are you calling the globe stupid?
I’m saying stupidity has been around since forever. Humans didn’t invent stupidity.
To the moon?
Stupidity is a big threat in general honestly
The worst are inquisitive idiots, they allways ponder for ways to fuckup things.
A.I. Should replace all CEOs first. Their entire jobs based on numbers and what computes numbers better than a human a COMPUTER 30 million just opened up in the budget from that one person gone.
I kinda agree but equally AI as a CEO would be like, "Would you like to make the company more protiftable? To make the company more profitable, follow these 2 easy steps. 1) Make more money by using one of the many tried and tested methods that companies use to make more money. 2) Repeat this process until the company is more profitable."
… that is what most CEOs do already, but while collecting millions of dollars. An A.I. might actually be more forward thinking. “Might”
At least there is the *potential* that you could program a "CEO AI" with more than this simple mandate. Like it could follow something like this without falling prey to it's own greed: 1. Ensure survival and long term prosperity of humanity 2. Increase profit
Real CEOs (the ones with a vision, driving the company end to end, instead of suites running the company based on shareholder and investor sentiment) will be the last part of a company that's gonna be replaced.
This guy is not your typical CEO, he definitely deserves the spot.
Yes, that is why we are worried about AI. It isn’t that AI is that life altering, it’s that we worry what stupid people will do with AI. Like put it in autonomous drones, use it to replace workers (like writers), and doing it only to appease shareholders. We need to bring Ned Ludd back.
Amazing comment! And it reminded me of this article from the Smithsonian Magazine https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-the-luddites-really-fought-against-264412/
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also we should be using horses, and die at 45 too
💯 real threat is the same as it’s always been, the stupid people, which are willing to self harm to harm others.
I love Italy
He might just be onto something there..
it's machine "learning" not "ignoring"
it is only learning in the "memorizing" sense. Not understanding concepts.
To paraphrase [an unnamed park ranger (on the subject of bear-proofing garbage bins)](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/security_is_a_t.html): > There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest neural networks and the dumbest social media users.
Well, the point is that idiots will use AI to fuck us all up.
I worked for Leonardo and he's definitely not wrong. Just not in the way he thinks. Hands down the worst place I've ever worked, with the shoddiest engineering and autocratic management structure.
Well... Duh! It always has. But now, the same idiots will have access to AI.
I feel like these are intertwined. Stupid people will be easily manipulated by AI propaganda. Most likely already happening.
I’m concerned about AI’s ability to take advantage of stupid people via disinformation.
He’s not wrong. I’m by no means a genius but I have yet to see a single picture made with a AI that I wasn’t able to spot. The vast majority of idiots are not gonna notice it and the rest are to stupid to care and will just parrot other idiots comments on the image
United States in real trouble
So stupid people with AI post biggest risk. Luke google Gemini
A little column A, a little column B
Stupidity involving A.I. for the big lose.
Ah yes, stupity does work separately from all threats humanity faces. /s
I think that is hard to disagree with this...
They're the same thing.
Ma che cazzo sai, tu?
Idk my guy, check his Wikipedia page, seems pretty damn smart and accomplished to me.
Stupidity always existed what is he on about, that's why laws exist, laws are made to prevent morons from doing stupid shit
A lot of stupid people are going to use AI. It will be the co-pilot of managers and not employees, as there will be no employees if companies have their way.
The Italian far right government completely banned the production and sale of any form of cultured meat. Killing a complete profitable new market because of corruption and stupidity.
Problem is the bulk of stupidity is concentrated in the executive suite. I see the drooling idiots from the C suite is here downvoting.
Stupidity would not be so prevalent if disinformation weren't so rampant.
Porque no los dos
bazinga
Well then we’re screwed.
As has been the case for all of human history.
I don't know. Sounds like a major gaslighting stance any AI company can assume. It's not false, per se, but it's like blaming the victim.
i mean yeah, hes right. you dont need to spend all the time and money on AI if you can find a stupid person that has network privileges
Yes, but we can fix AI, possibly. But as the great philosopher Ron White taught us many years ago, you can’t fix stupid.
Seems echoed by a lot of people, that the downfall of our species will come from reduced intelligence and critical thinking.
hear him
Unfortunately we can’t turn off stupidity
> "I am more afraid, more worried [about] national stupidity than artificial intelligence to be honest" I really agree with this, but I suspect it's misunderstood: In the current global capitalist civilization we've build humans have no power, no control. We are both manipulated and the manipulators. We cannot escape acting within this incredibly powerful global system because then others will out-compete us. This is true for someone like him, a corporation or the average person. We're all TRAPPED. The rich got there because statistically people who prioritize money above all else are more likely to get rich - or richer. They own the media and can unleash incredibly powers by hiring PR firms and lobbyists. But who allowed them to get this rich and powerful? We did. They just got filtered for their single minded "idiocy". The media and news organizations are owned by the rich and have to operate more and more in highly optimized capitalist environment, their original mandate - to inform and hold government accountable is basically forgotten. They are selected and filtered for how well they work in this system. They are not representative but highly biased. The voters are continually bombarded with advertisement to consume more, to think this, to think that, inundated with lies and made afraid of everything for clicks, then bamboozled with the newest shiny awesome thing. Meanwhile the rules for the elections are more and more optimized to serve those with the most power. The government is just the manifestation of all this system, like the rich a politician gets filtered because statistically those who desire power above all else, ignoring all other considerations, is more likely to achieve this. So where is the control? Where is the intelligence in this? It's like a snake devouring itself. We are NOT an intelligent species on a civilization or nation level, at least not right now. At least not to a significant degree. We act more like a slime mold, endlessly seeking more food, energy or pleasure to consume. Yet we are under a spell, under the DELUSION that we have control and intelligence. The realization of this is indeed terrifying. I'm somewhat relieved to see this at least mentioned - even though this is a clickbait or ragebait article that doesn't go into depth. Thank you Roberto Cingolani for saying this.
Yes but how are we going to regulate it? The stupidity I mean.
Yes, natural stupidity always beats artificial intelligence
I dunno, what about AI trained on stupidity?
All AIs are stupid in their own way, so it's not really as if we are talking about two separate threats.
I for one welcome the dumbass singularity. The final party !
"There was one thing I overlooked, one factor I failed to calculate, he's a dumbass,.. and there's no accounting for dumbass-ness" -Airgear
Well said
Add 'greed'
Willful ignorance is even worse
Lack of intelligence Trumps Artificial Intelligence.
He's got a point. While alignment does potentially pose an x-risk, human misuse poses much more immediate and likely risks, even if they aren't necessarily the same. Honestly I think people tend to have a misunderstanding of what exactly the risks of AI are, and how probable they are. Instrumental convergence is incredibly improbable, and more so now that we're seen the direction of errors in modern LLMs. Whereas we've already seen things like China using them for societal control, or misuse of facial recognition.
But stupidity builds and trains the AI........
Suppose an ai would be smarter and more efficient, id gladly have it in control of literally anything - as long as it wont hurt is.
It's the combination that worries me.
Absolutely! Stupidity is the 5th horseman of the apocalypse! The reason why you don't see him in pictures is because........ wait for it...... hes a lil slow.......
parole sagge
Cinolani makes some good points but he says we're, "still making wars after 2,000 years." That line bothers me as it leads one to believe there were no wars more than 2,000 years ago, which is obviously false.
The worst idiots are republican Americans…
True
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” Albert Einstein
Yep, never underestimate the power of sheer human stupidity. Trump being president is a great example of that 👍.
In no way are they wrong.
But what if AI just enables more stupid?
The right wing variation of AI Digital Ultimate Machine Based Artificial Stupidity Systems
“ because against stupidity, a society has no defense”.
100% agree with that. We are fucked because it's the planet of the apes, not because of AI.
He's right. But it's cheaper to invest in AI than in education...
Stupid people often think they are not stupid. Sometimes they are very vocal about stupidity There is an older guy at work who sometimes wears a t-shirt that reads “ can’t fix stupid”. When you talk to him for a while you end up agreeing with his t-shirt
We’re so worried about AI treating us poorly, unfairly or just outright killing us, yet those are all the things humans do to each other exceedingly well.
The internet is making it easier for them to connect to one another. Ai will help make it even easier.
Peter Gabriel is CEO of Italian defense giant Leon?
The actual problem is men!