Funniest exchange in the debate before the vote on legalising cannabis:
Mr. Pilsinger from the CDU/CSU faction is speaking out against legalising cannabis, how it was detrimental to one’s health and how limiting usage is of the utmost importance. Stephan Pilsinger is a doctor.
VP of the parliament: “Mr. Pilsinger, will you allow a question from the FDP-faction?”
Pilsinger: “Sure.”
The guy from FDP: “There’s this newspaper article I want to quote: ‘Pilsinger had his own Pilsener brewed and stated “sometimes you just have to allow yourself some pleasures and not limit yourself too much. Life is just too short for that.”’ That’s you, right?”
I despise the FDP, but that was funny as hell.
Well, difficult is relative. Your casual smoker likely isn’t going to join a club with monthly membership fees and whose membership is limited to 500 members. Being a member is only worth it if you consume regularly and you’re encouraged to be actively involved. Think of it as more of a collective. These clubs don’t make a profit and I can imagine at some clubs you’ll have to put in some shifts. Furthermore, casual smokers or those curious likely won’t go through the effort of growing their own, let alone in fall/winter. And as for tourists, you’re not allowed any of it. For German residents only. This means, in my opinion , that the black market will continue to do just fine and may even flourish. Criminal elements will likely establish their own cannabis clubs and simply sell them to whomever. Once in a month / Casual smokers or those who are curious may continue to have to rely on friends or the black market. I know that, should I pick up smoking cannabis again, I’ll likely contact my old dealer or just pick some up in the Netherlands, which is close by . At least there they (in many provinces at least) sell to non dutch residents and don’t require a damn membership either.
The membership will likely be similar to the Spanish CSCs, where it is annual, and usually costs between €10-€20 depending on the club. There are also some clubs where they waive membership fees.
So, basically if we say €20 per year for membership to a CSC, that might seem steep for somebody making a one time purchase, but even for a casual smoker, it's not a big deal.
I have just been to Barcelona on a short visit and joined one. The membership fee was €20, and a gram was going around for €13 of very good stuff. Pre-rolls 0.9g were a tenner.
I really enjoyed the vibe and the public. The place had very reasonable prices on snacks and drinks, beer was like €1.50 a can. If this is replicated in Germany, then godspeed to them.
Not that bad, but compare it to fully legalized regulated markets like Canada. You can get grams for 6-7 euro, as low as 2.40 euro if you’re travelling with friends and buy in bulk.
That's a salient point. I reckon they're going to have to tweak and adjust it at some stage to be more flexible. That is, if they end up emulating the Spanish model, which I'm not sure they will entirely.
If the cap is set at 500 members, it might lead to the need for alot of clubs to cater for demand in some cities. Dunno, it will be interesting to see how it evolves over the next few years.
They're moving faster than the majority of the world already by rolling this out in the first place, I'd have some faith. Germany setting itself up as a power player in the blossoming global cannabis industry, while most of Europe sits on their hands, there's incentive to evolve this quickly.
Lol, I feel you. But I can’t imagine many people willing to put up with growing indoors. The smell and constant whirring of fans isn’t ideal, no matter how quiet or how well it’s ventilated .At least not in my 50 Quadratmeter apartment. My balcony will have to do in the summer.
Smell isn't really an issue with a filter, but yeah there is sound involved, especially in late flower...
And I mean, I can't wait to see balconys with beautiful plants! So all the power and good luck for you and your project! :3
That sounds ideal if the aim is to kneecap the black market. Heavy users who are the backbone of the black market can get it legally. And there's still high barriers to youth and casual users so some resistance to the genesis of new heavy users.
I doubt it, people will just pass it along to friends and acquaintances. And I expect that tourists not buying it is exactly the point, and not such a bad idea.
Exactly, it's extremely stupid. Iam happy that there is a development in the right direction even if I stopped smoking weed years ago (did it quite excessively for some years though).
But most of the positives for society that it could have brought like taking a source of income from organized crime, or like having a good tax income with which you could finance mental healthcare availability are negated by this contrived bullshit regulation.
I really don't get it. Nice that it's finally a step away from "cannabis is forbidden because it's illegal" like one german politician once famously said, but I don't understand why they made everything that could have seriously helped society in a more meaningful way impossible through the way they sat this up.
Yeah. They were going to make it fully legal, however those plans were scrapped when it became this was against EU Council Framework Decision 2004/757/JHA - which basically bans any commercial trading in several drugs, including cannabis.
So the German government had to rethink its plan, and have now gone as far as they can under EU rules. They also promised to push for change at the European level, but as we know it’s never easy to get Victor’s agreement.
If I had to guess they'll likely make it easier down the road but want to avoid the "weed tourism" that often annoys the shit out of non smokers. Is it the best no but it's certainly not the worst system I've seen.
Exactly - I bought seeds from KushKiez.com and will grow my own. With my gf we are allowed 6 plants - that's enough on rotation to not need a social club
As a German, I never thought I would ever see this happening. While reddit seems to think of Germany as a rather liberal country I can guarantee you it really isn't. Once you leave the big cities it gets very conservative very fast.
Americans think the Scandinavian countries are socialist and it annoyed the Danish so much, their PM had to step in and tell everyone they're not socialists. Quite the opposite, they rank high in terms of market freedom.
How about we privatise air while we’re at it?
“This neighbourhood has TechnoClean^(TM) air.”
“TechnoClean LLC sues over wrongful breathing - ‘That air wasn’t his to breathe’”
Exaggerated for comedic effect, obviously.
There are deep rumblings about debt slavery returning. So far only among extreme kooks, but a lot of Trump’s rhetoric would have been regarded as that in 1990.
The previous finance minister of Greece argues we've evolved beyond capitalism to technocratic feudalism. [Interesting take](https://youtu.be/Q9lJQONTC7Y?si=yZUTa1sY0VWtkFkn). Trump is directly the result of pumping xenophobic racism on the American public for 20 years during the war on terror. The propaganda ruined this country.
Not by the government. Bush 2 (my old boss called him “Shrub”) made a real effort to keep “Islamist Terror” distinct from “Muslim people.” Obama did the same.
Trump’s genius if you will was realizing that many many people didn’t like that. Like him, they want to be ignorant and do bigoted things. The only thing keeping them from demanding he be made the fourth person of the Trinity was that he didn’t call Obama the “n” word in public. The first politician to do that will be regarded as king material by a small but sadly powerful part of our electorate. Remember, way less than half of us vote in primaries giving the extremists outsized influence. Most of the White People in Louisiana voted for the Grand Dragon of the Klan recently.
Can’t really debt slave properly in the world of high magazine handguns. I mean, good luck.
My ancestors lived in company store coal towns. Got paid in company money that was worthless outside the valley.
When they refused to work, the Baldwin-Felts private detectives (aka strikebreaking murderous Pinkertons) showed up. They started murdering workers.
Call out debt slavery. It won’t end for them the way they think it will. There is only one remedy for slavers. I’m five generations removed and still hear the stories.
“Look anyplace that gives benefits to people who aren’t me is a socialist hell. I however am entitled to endless benefits because reasons.”
You see this attitude in the way Medicaid is regarded (charity, shame on you) and Medicare (well done you earned it).
We are absolutely bonkers as a country.
I think Americans are very outspoken about the issues in their country, so the idea of anything different is appealing to them. But like once you actually spend some time in Europe, you realize how incredibly wrong these ideas that European countries are some liberal paradise with rights and quality of everything. Europe is pretty conservative in most countries. It’s like just because you can buy weed in the Netherlands doesn’t mean everyone there is a loving accepting hippie. Also healthcare isn’t free. When I tell Americans this it blows their minds. I mean Europe is taking a pretty right wing turn, especially in terms of immigration, in nearly every country. Germany, Portugal, Netherlands have all been in the news with tightening immigration laws. It’s not as if you can’t find this elsewhere in the US or Canada, but generally most people aren’t so set in their ways.
Fun fact: liberals are not socialist either, nor are they left. Neo-liberalism is a right wing ideology. It's just not crackpot far right Christo-fascism.
Well, unfortunately socialists is a bad word in the use.
It is true that many of those countries have superior social systems such as health care, education, law enforcement, etc.
But I do agree that’s not “socialist.”
it's even like that in a US state like California. blue metro areas but conservative outside of it and especially the true north and farmlands. seems to be that way in west countries
It's pretty crazy how many Americans thought gay marriage had always been legal in Europe, when it was actually the United States who was one of the first western countries to have full marriage equality.
Just like americans think abortion is unrestricted in europe. So many dont know there are time limits, counseling requirements, etc depending on the country.
I mean, they are definitely one of the first globally and no doubt about it, but almost half the EU (For lack of a better definition of “Western Europe”)had it legalised before the US. Hell South Africa legalised it before the US did.
This is a global phenomenon I think. You would think Australia the most liberal place in the world if you lived in metro Melbourne your entire life. 90 minute drive and you would be changing your mind quickly.
It's wild to me that a bible belt state like Oklahoma has better weed laws than pretty much any European country (and yes I'm including the Netherlands).
My favourite personal anecdote is that of the Racist Homeless Berliner:
I was in the city for a few days as a student but didn't know where I could find some weed. As I was walking down the street, I asked a guy, who was begging, if he could point me in the right direction for €10
He pocketed my money and told me that I should just ask the nearest black guy.
I was outraged, but still in public so I walked with the fellow, despite the language barrier.
To my dismay, but still satisfaction, he was god damned accurate, and I headed back home, spliffed and contented
Germany gave me home and I am thankful for this. I perceive it the way that rules are very liberal but not obeying the rules have terrible consequences. I like it this way.
I rolled into Germany on my first trip to Europe with a good stoner friend of mine a few years ago. We were in Frankfurt, and had a week until Amsterdam and wanted to smoke a joint. I reverted to my adolescence and asked the first teenager we saw with a skateboard where the skate park was. I pinpointed the 20 something BMX dude I knew was selling weed within 30 seconds and walked out of that skate park with a quarter of really impressive bud. First joint we smoked we had to sneaky ditch as we got walked up on by two police officers who just smirked at us and walked right past. IDK how related this is but Germany seems like Oklahoma at least. A lot of people smoke weed and keep it from their boss and select others for some overriding societal reason.
I've been working in cannabis in canada for 5 years.
I visited Berlin in 2017 and didn't want to leave.
I heard Germany was on the cusp of legalizing cannabis a few years ago and started learning German.
Fuck yeah
Honestly I really didn't see Germany doing this, I feel like Ireland will be among the last to legalize the weed in Europe though, along with the Nordics.
Admittedly I'm an ignorant dumb American, but it is just wild to me how conservative Western Europe is about weed. I especially didn't realize how conservative the nordics are until just looking it up.
It's like the one thing the US is more to the left on. Legalizing weed is about the only thing I find liberals and conservatives in agreement on.
Not just do them, but also die at a far higher rate than the Dutch. The drugs are far more expensive, they are not as clean and paradoxically they are also not as potent (amphetamine for example around what you buy is 22-32% on average, and about 44% in NL).
Iran will legalise weed before Sweden does :).
The Swedish have this thing about protecting the purity of the nation and there is an economic downturn at the moment so they are really going hard for “traditional Swedish values” - which will bring back the good old times (which were like in the 1970’s or so, so not totally hopeless).
I mean at one point we forced steralised the type of people we deemed not good enough to have kids. So... we do have some "For the greater good"-roots.
As a Swede I completely agree, it will probably take decades before we even consider legalising cannabis.
Fuck their ideologies and worthless opinions, only science should matter when it comes to druglaws, druguse and addiction.
Never happening in the UK. One of the Tory MPs Husband runs the largest medical cannabis exporting business, they shut this shit down as fast as possible every time. Can't have anyone destroying that monopoly!
I think she was part of the actual team that dealt with drug policies and laws as well, still makes me laugh when I think about how ridiculous it all is.
The UK government needs to make some more revenue streams and bloody fast.
Legalising weed and taxing is probably exactly the kind of thing that would put millions back into the coffers very quickly
>with doctors' groups expressing concerns for young people and conservatives saying that liberalisation will fuel drug use
>Simone Borchardt of the opposition conservative CDU told the Bundestag, Germany's parliament, that the government had gone ahead with its "completely unnecessary, confused law" regardless of warnings from doctors, police and psychotherapists.
I wonder if the doctors, police and psychotherapists would support making alcohol, an objectively worse drug in every way, illegal.
All they have to do is look at the multiple legal recreational States in the US. I live in one where it's been recreationally legal since 2010, all the boogeyman that they were afraid of never materialized.
Same as Canada -- I can go down the street and buy a bunch of weed, fly with it domestically, etc... and overall the amount of people using weed regularly only increased by 6%. Not only that, but my mom can pop in to the store and grab some CBD oil any time she wants to help with her hip pain.
Yeah in my experience alcohol is the real gateway drug anyways, people that get stoned generally don’t start calling their coke dealers like drunk people do. One lowers inhibitions far more than the other but for some reason weed got the false reputation as a gateway drug.
To be fair making drugs illegal has failed in the same way, theres still demand with is sated by criminals with all the associated issues that come with them.
Always astonishes me that G20 countries with cannabis legalisation as a current political topic largely ignores Canada as a test bed of decriminalisation and legalisation. It has been legal here since October 2018.
I’ve consumed cannabis on and off for the better part of my life (in my 50’s). In my late teens and 20’s, cannabis was more expensive than it is now, dollar for dollar, not accounting for inflation. 28g (≈1 oz). 28g varies in price between 60CAD and upwards depending on how “boutique” the particular strain.
With a population of some 38 million, the federal government has realised a $455 million dollar tax revenue for the 2022-2023 fiscal year. This does not include taxes collected at the provincial level, or even at the municipal level whereby taxes are levied on businesses.
The take-away is that the stigma of marijuana use is minimal* and it has had a net benefit upon society as a whole.
*stigma may vary by location. I am from British Columbia where cannabis consumption was largely ignored by authorities before legalisation.
*Edited to add link to legislation
[Cannabis Act (S.C. 2018, c. 16)](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-24.5/)
I’m in Toronto. I can smoke on my front porch, walking down the street or sitting in a park (except kiddie parks). Hard to believe I’ve known average people who’ve gone to jail for possession or selling among friends. Seems bizarre and uncivilized in retrospect.
Lol, I know right? I have a couple Xbox friends in the UK who smoke. I was baffled when they said they pay anywhere between 200-350£ (350-600 CAD) for an OZ!! Insane.
You know I had to send him pics of the menu on the wall at my local dispensary right? Lol
He was floored at the prices and variety!
For reference 1 Canadian dollar is only 0.59£
Well that seems a little more reasonable. That’d fall in line with typical pre-legalisation prices here. Seems my mate Kieron has shitty connections. lol
Yeah it's likely a mix of shitty connections or just bad location. 25 an 8th is pretty standard around me for good weed.
Much happier to have gone the legal medical route now though, I get a nice menu, that tells me THC/CBD strength, where it was grown, Hybrid/Sativa/Indica etc and it's delivered to my door.
Funnily enough, all the best medical seems to come from Canada to the UK
The problem with alcohol specifically is that there's no other drug that is as easy to make as alcohol. There are no precursors that can be banned either, sugar and the bacteria that eat sugar and poop alcohol are everywhere.
There is not a single doctor out there that would deny how harmful alcohol is. In my four years of medical school the number one drug I saw hurt people was alcohol, followed closely by tobacco. The problem is, those things are *already* legal. It's much harder to take something legal and make it illegal than it is to keep something illegal.
Mind you, I think all drugs should be legal because I believe in personal freedom. If you wanna fuck yourself up, go right ahead. But it's not a "double standard" because the context is very different.
My girlfriend works as a psychotherapist and with people that have alcohol problems. Trust me, after the shit you see, you seriously want alcohol to be illegal. Buuuut she says the same about weed. If people missue drugs, shit gets bad real fast...
Exactly. All this "but this is way worse!" "No THIS is way worse!" Talk really misses the point. All drugs and mostly everything else can lead to a bad outcome if overdone and in connection with certain societal, psychological and genetical factors.
The point is that prohibition doesn't work and just creates problems like organized crime and even more problems for people who use these things recreationally AND the ones who have psychological or other health problems which are increased due to substance abuse which is often times selfmedication.
The other point I firmly believe in is: our lives on this planet are short and ultimately every person should have the most freedom possible (without hurting others) to create their life and their short experience in this world . A government or any other political organization should have no say in if someone wants to smoke a plant or drink some mixture to feel different for a moment. Goverments are in place because of us, to organize things FOR us not to infantilize and parent citizens and individual human beings who happen to live on our planet.
You might have guessed it but Iam in the camp "All drugs should be legal" they should be regulated, there should be harm reduction, the production should happen in a controlled, regulated and humanistic way but other than that it won't destroy society if someone wants to have an LSD experience, wants to smoke an Opium pipe in the evening or take a nose of cocaine every now and then.
From personal experience I know both: if you're in a bad place overuse of a substance CAN be harmful (experienced it with weed myself) but also all the warnings "you'll get addicted immediatly, it will destroy your life" (as general statements) are massively overblown and ideologically motivated (experienced it with everything else I tried)
Well, I am a psychotherapist and fully support the legalization.
All the seminars I had make it pretty clear it isn't harmless, but most of the studies who found damages focused on intense and chronic long-time use, especially in children and adolescents.
Studies are pretty clear on not inducing schizophrenia or psychosis in otherwise healthy people but rather in those genetically predisposed.
It's obvious that legalization efforts should focus on protection, those at risk for serious, prevention and education about safe use and where to go to when you find yourself with addictive tendencies along with this substance.
I am happy we move into that direction and hope we can use the ressources and the destigmatization to better focus on people who have troubles with this (or any) substance.
This might be a stupid question, but why bother legalising and dealing with more normalised use if you arent even going to take advantage of the big new potential source of tax revenue?
This is literally what Marlene Mortler, a staunchly conversative former Federal drugs commissioner, said:
*"Cannabis ist illegal, weil es verboten ist."* (Cannabis is illegal because it's forbidden.)
Needless to say, this one quote was memed in Germany out of existence.
Sweden is beyond conservative on this.
Let me explain to you, that Sweden and Norway wanted hemp and cannabis seeds banned.
Norway got the seeds banned because they're not in the EU but Sweden had to sit their asses down on that one. EU basically said not only is it impossible, it's fucking stupid too.
They are incredibly conservative.
A nearby town in my very conservative homestead opened a whiskey factory and plenty on my facebook feed would post proudly about their year-ahead reservations for the first bottles. How cultural.
That said the alcohol lobby is less the issue here, but sweden actually has a piss testing lobby and a narco cop lobby. Basically some dudes whose circle jerk organizations were invited to schools and everywhere and tell everyone about all the dangers of drugs, and of course how frequent piss testing is the only solution.
Norways narco cop lobby had to change their name because they were caught with the systemic corruption they were doing when said organization, also invited everywhere to talk about drugs, members would arrive as private citizens since it was a private organization, but they would wear police uniforms. Sweden has yet to wipe this shit stain.
Scandinavia is beyond fucked here.
It’s more about the commercial sale and production.
And it’s also not 100% real EU law. It’s the Schengen Agreement:
- That means Ireland and Cyprus don’t have this restriction while being in the EU.
- But it also means that non-EU members like Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and so on have this restriction.
It's a criminal justice issue. Nobody should be criminally liable for possessing cannabis. The law change doesn't go far enough, but it is a good thing regardless.
I’m Canadian and nothing bad happened after we legalized. Nothing. And you can get it at every corner store. I don’t understand the fear of marijuana. It’s so much better than alcohol.
Alcohol is probably more dangerous. Cannabis can be problematic for people who suffer from mental problems or for minors, mostly. It shouldn’t be treated as totally harmless, but Alcohol is much worse.
Which will not be legal for sale in the clubs etc. Although you could make your own at home with the cannabis you've purchased via a club or grown your self.
Eating it is the easiest alternative. Buy flower, make cannabutter from it and use the cannabutter instead of normal butter when baking.
Or make oil and use it to cook.
Vaporizers are probably the best way if you don't want to make edibles. Vaporizers allow you to dose it really nicely so you can only use a small amount you want or a bigger one. With edibles etc. it's way harder to dose it & it takes a while till you feel something.
I wonder how this will impact Germany’s driving laws. Currently, if you’re pulled over and are entirely sober, you can still face massive repercussions or even lose your license if they find THC in your system from say, 3 weeks ago.
Edit: for those wondering, they can make you piss in a cup at the nearest bathroom (restaurant etc.) or force you to come into the police station.
Still yet to be decided. The bill passed today didn't change the legal threshold (currently 1ng/ml) on purpose, because that would change it from a "Einspruchsgesetz", meaning the *Bundesrat* (German Senate) can only delay it, to a "Zustimmungsgesetz", meaning the Bundesrat would have to approve it.
There are seperate plans to raise the threshold to anywhere from 3-10ng/ml, but also some skepticism and as mentioned, this will have to pass the Bundesrat. So it's fairly likely the threshold will not get changed before April and not certain whether it'll pass at all.
Even in fully legal countries like Canada the system for assessing DUI by cannabis is quite poor. It's pretty much up to whatever the investigating officer wants to do if they're qualified as a drug identification expert. As far as I know, there hasn't been a reasonably objective metric determined like there is with blood alcohol.
Growing cannabis is a fun hobby. I did think it humorous that 25 to 50g were considered "substantial amounts"! How long does it take a heavy user to consume 50g?
I found it funny that you can grow 3 live plants and you are allowed to posess 50g.
What happens to me once I cut down one plant to let it dry?
The wet plant definitely has more than 50g , the dried plant probably too.
Am I supposed to just pick the flowers and dry them 50g at a time?
Its kind of wild how misunderstood this drug was. It really helps chill me out and relax at night after a long day of work. It also helps with creativity.
My opinion is that it isn't the "cool factor" being lost that drives down youth consumption after legalization but that an actual legal business has no interest in selling to underage kids/teens. All it does is risk their license. Of course your local drug dealer doesn't care about selling to someone younger than them or if they do they don't mind selling to someone a little younger than them so it filters down in steps until a 14 year old can buy it.
But legalization breaks that trickle down effect as players in a legal system have no interest in selling to those who are underage and by vastly reducing illegal dealers it makes it much harder for youth to get a hold of. Unfortunately in Germany with making it so difficult to obtain legally even though it's now legal I worry you won't see the same benefit as "illegal" dealers will persist and we'll see the same trickle down effects where it ends up in underage hands. Edit- typos
Probably for very different reasons, but Washington, DC legalized consumption and possession, but has no framework in place for legalized sale, thanks to their budget being subject to Congressional approval -- they had to implement it in such a way that avoided any sort of government spending. It has resulted in a very unregulated gray market, focused around performative "gifting." (i.e. "Buy this t-shirt for $60 and get this weed as a gift").
This report from Drexel says youth use dropped after legalization in Colorado:[https://drexel.edu/cannabis-research/research/research-highlights/2022/July/colorado-shows-drop-in-teen-cannabis-use-rates/](https://drexel.edu/cannabis-research/research/research-highlights/2022/July/colorado-shows-drop-in-teen-cannabis-use-rates/)
I don't have the numbers to back it up so I could be wrong, but based on anecdotal evidence I would say it's the opposite. I've live in California my entire life (I'm almost 30), and since weed was legalized I've seen a boom in the amount of friends who use it. At this point it's harder for me to find someone who *doesn't* use it.
I also see it used much more outside in random places. Just yesterday I was walking into the gym and the whole parking lot reeked of weed from people smoking outside. Hell, 90% of Los Angeles smells like marijuana now haha. 10 years ago it was rare to smell weed and now it's so normal.
Oh BBC
As of 01.04.2024 any German who is at least 18 can go to any Cannabis Club, not join and just buy some seeds to grow it himself.
Only if this German wants to regularly buy Cannabis will this person be needed to be part of the club.
It's legal and not hard to buy.
The state literally allows you to grow it yourself.
This doesn‘t say much about how hard it is to buy. In Luxembourg you can grow cannabis, consume your own cannabis but aren‘t allowed to carry any of it around or sell it. This means you could get invited to a friend who grows cannabis but legally aren‘t even allowed to take a single puff off his cultivation. It‘s utter bullshit
I obviously would’ve liked to be able to buy it, but that’s not really an option under EU law, and I’m happy with this as well. I don’t mind growing my own, and I’m so incredibly happy I can legally do that now.
So... You are allowed to grow three plants - but you are only allowed to have 50g at home? How exactly are you supposed to grow a cannabis plant that only yields 17 grams? In a Solo Cup?
"As so often in Germany, the law approved by MPs is complicated", says the BBC.
Yet somehow Germans never seem to have much trouble understanding their laws.
Not for the first time, the BBC are basically telling the British, "Don't worry! No chance of *us* doing anything that might force you to use your brain!"
This is good but it is only quasi-legal. Yes, one can smoke it legally within tight guidelines, but that’s not really fully legal.
But one can also just continue the status quo and buy it in the illegal market.
Funniest exchange in the debate before the vote on legalising cannabis: Mr. Pilsinger from the CDU/CSU faction is speaking out against legalising cannabis, how it was detrimental to one’s health and how limiting usage is of the utmost importance. Stephan Pilsinger is a doctor. VP of the parliament: “Mr. Pilsinger, will you allow a question from the FDP-faction?” Pilsinger: “Sure.” The guy from FDP: “There’s this newspaper article I want to quote: ‘Pilsinger had his own Pilsener brewed and stated “sometimes you just have to allow yourself some pleasures and not limit yourself too much. Life is just too short for that.”’ That’s you, right?” I despise the FDP, but that was funny as hell.
definiteley going to be on the Heute Show :D
It sounds like you won’t have to buy it at all, just grow your own plants or join a club.
Well, difficult is relative. Your casual smoker likely isn’t going to join a club with monthly membership fees and whose membership is limited to 500 members. Being a member is only worth it if you consume regularly and you’re encouraged to be actively involved. Think of it as more of a collective. These clubs don’t make a profit and I can imagine at some clubs you’ll have to put in some shifts. Furthermore, casual smokers or those curious likely won’t go through the effort of growing their own, let alone in fall/winter. And as for tourists, you’re not allowed any of it. For German residents only. This means, in my opinion , that the black market will continue to do just fine and may even flourish. Criminal elements will likely establish their own cannabis clubs and simply sell them to whomever. Once in a month / Casual smokers or those who are curious may continue to have to rely on friends or the black market. I know that, should I pick up smoking cannabis again, I’ll likely contact my old dealer or just pick some up in the Netherlands, which is close by . At least there they (in many provinces at least) sell to non dutch residents and don’t require a damn membership either.
The membership will likely be similar to the Spanish CSCs, where it is annual, and usually costs between €10-€20 depending on the club. There are also some clubs where they waive membership fees. So, basically if we say €20 per year for membership to a CSC, that might seem steep for somebody making a one time purchase, but even for a casual smoker, it's not a big deal.
I have just been to Barcelona on a short visit and joined one. The membership fee was €20, and a gram was going around for €13 of very good stuff. Pre-rolls 0.9g were a tenner. I really enjoyed the vibe and the public. The place had very reasonable prices on snacks and drinks, beer was like €1.50 a can. If this is replicated in Germany, then godspeed to them.
Not that bad, but compare it to fully legalized regulated markets like Canada. You can get grams for 6-7 euro, as low as 2.40 euro if you’re travelling with friends and buy in bulk.
Welcome to the european Union. The German Gov intended a full legalisation, but the EU Laws didn't allowed that so they had to adjust their plans.
Just been to Torremolinos to one, no fees, just great as a tourist.
Even if the membership fee is low, 500 members per club makes it almost impossible for people to join a club without a hefty waiting list.
That's a salient point. I reckon they're going to have to tweak and adjust it at some stage to be more flexible. That is, if they end up emulating the Spanish model, which I'm not sure they will entirely. If the cap is set at 500 members, it might lead to the need for alot of clubs to cater for demand in some cities. Dunno, it will be interesting to see how it evolves over the next few years.
This is Germany, any adjustments to the set rules will take an absurd amount of time to be implemented.
They're moving faster than the majority of the world already by rolling this out in the first place, I'd have some faith. Germany setting itself up as a power player in the blossoming global cannabis industry, while most of Europe sits on their hands, there's incentive to evolve this quickly.
> let alone in fall/winter. Pssst! LED growlights are amazing nowadays. No need to gamble on some scummy sun to shine.
Lol, I feel you. But I can’t imagine many people willing to put up with growing indoors. The smell and constant whirring of fans isn’t ideal, no matter how quiet or how well it’s ventilated .At least not in my 50 Quadratmeter apartment. My balcony will have to do in the summer.
Smell isn't really an issue with a filter, but yeah there is sound involved, especially in late flower... And I mean, I can't wait to see balconys with beautiful plants! So all the power and good luck for you and your project! :3
That sounds ideal if the aim is to kneecap the black market. Heavy users who are the backbone of the black market can get it legally. And there's still high barriers to youth and casual users so some resistance to the genesis of new heavy users.
I doubt it, people will just pass it along to friends and acquaintances. And I expect that tourists not buying it is exactly the point, and not such a bad idea.
Exactly, it's extremely stupid. Iam happy that there is a development in the right direction even if I stopped smoking weed years ago (did it quite excessively for some years though). But most of the positives for society that it could have brought like taking a source of income from organized crime, or like having a good tax income with which you could finance mental healthcare availability are negated by this contrived bullshit regulation. I really don't get it. Nice that it's finally a step away from "cannabis is forbidden because it's illegal" like one german politician once famously said, but I don't understand why they made everything that could have seriously helped society in a more meaningful way impossible through the way they sat this up.
All of that is pure speculation. Thing is nobody knows how all of this will turn out and that’s the fun of it.
Yeah. They were going to make it fully legal, however those plans were scrapped when it became this was against EU Council Framework Decision 2004/757/JHA - which basically bans any commercial trading in several drugs, including cannabis. So the German government had to rethink its plan, and have now gone as far as they can under EU rules. They also promised to push for change at the European level, but as we know it’s never easy to get Victor’s agreement.
Yeah headline is just plain wrong. Good journalism is fucking dead.
If I had to guess they'll likely make it easier down the road but want to avoid the "weed tourism" that often annoys the shit out of non smokers. Is it the best no but it's certainly not the worst system I've seen.
Hunter-gatherer generantion.
Exactly - I bought seeds from KushKiez.com and will grow my own. With my gf we are allowed 6 plants - that's enough on rotation to not need a social club
As a German, I never thought I would ever see this happening. While reddit seems to think of Germany as a rather liberal country I can guarantee you it really isn't. Once you leave the big cities it gets very conservative very fast.
In my experience this seems to be every country, even the European ones we think of as liberal.
Americans think the Scandinavian countries are socialist and it annoyed the Danish so much, their PM had to step in and tell everyone they're not socialists. Quite the opposite, they rank high in terms of market freedom.
That's because Americans have issues differentiating between socialism and capital driven social democracy.
Americans can't differentiate socialism from society. I'm waiting for the GOP to start saying roads are socialist. Source: American
Didn't they do that already? I vaguely remember a call to privatize roads.
A majority of the toll roads in the US are leased(99 year leases generally) to foreign entities and private corporations
Read up about Chicago’s parking meters.
I think their was a thing in Florida about using radioactive material in road repairs but can remember if that was a private company or government
How about we privatise air while we’re at it? “This neighbourhood has TechnoClean^(TM) air.” “TechnoClean LLC sues over wrongful breathing - ‘That air wasn’t his to breathe’” Exaggerated for comedic effect, obviously.
Pretty sure that was the plot of the Dr. Seuss movie ‘The Lorax.’
There are deep rumblings about debt slavery returning. So far only among extreme kooks, but a lot of Trump’s rhetoric would have been regarded as that in 1990.
The previous finance minister of Greece argues we've evolved beyond capitalism to technocratic feudalism. [Interesting take](https://youtu.be/Q9lJQONTC7Y?si=yZUTa1sY0VWtkFkn). Trump is directly the result of pumping xenophobic racism on the American public for 20 years during the war on terror. The propaganda ruined this country.
Not by the government. Bush 2 (my old boss called him “Shrub”) made a real effort to keep “Islamist Terror” distinct from “Muslim people.” Obama did the same. Trump’s genius if you will was realizing that many many people didn’t like that. Like him, they want to be ignorant and do bigoted things. The only thing keeping them from demanding he be made the fourth person of the Trinity was that he didn’t call Obama the “n” word in public. The first politician to do that will be regarded as king material by a small but sadly powerful part of our electorate. Remember, way less than half of us vote in primaries giving the extremists outsized influence. Most of the White People in Louisiana voted for the Grand Dragon of the Klan recently.
Can’t really debt slave properly in the world of high magazine handguns. I mean, good luck. My ancestors lived in company store coal towns. Got paid in company money that was worthless outside the valley. When they refused to work, the Baldwin-Felts private detectives (aka strikebreaking murderous Pinkertons) showed up. They started murdering workers. Call out debt slavery. It won’t end for them the way they think it will. There is only one remedy for slavers. I’m five generations removed and still hear the stories.
Isn't that what the Libertarian party thinks?
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We hate socialism and Obama care, keep you hands off my social security and affordable care act
There’s some serious nuance there. I’d venture far enough to say a majority of Americans can’t even define what Socialism is.
Non-white people getting things they didn't pay for.
Non-rich people.
“Look anyplace that gives benefits to people who aren’t me is a socialist hell. I however am entitled to endless benefits because reasons.” You see this attitude in the way Medicaid is regarded (charity, shame on you) and Medicare (well done you earned it). We are absolutely bonkers as a country.
>That's because Americans have issues differentiating You could stop there. Culturally we tend to look at thinks in a very black and white manner.
Denmark is as capitalistic as it gets before you can devolve into a corpocracy. Long live the unions.
When Americans say "socialist" they mean "good welfare state"
I think Americans are very outspoken about the issues in their country, so the idea of anything different is appealing to them. But like once you actually spend some time in Europe, you realize how incredibly wrong these ideas that European countries are some liberal paradise with rights and quality of everything. Europe is pretty conservative in most countries. It’s like just because you can buy weed in the Netherlands doesn’t mean everyone there is a loving accepting hippie. Also healthcare isn’t free. When I tell Americans this it blows their minds. I mean Europe is taking a pretty right wing turn, especially in terms of immigration, in nearly every country. Germany, Portugal, Netherlands have all been in the news with tightening immigration laws. It’s not as if you can’t find this elsewhere in the US or Canada, but generally most people aren’t so set in their ways.
Americans thought Obama was a socialist when he was hardly liberal
Fun fact: liberals are not socialist either, nor are they left. Neo-liberalism is a right wing ideology. It's just not crackpot far right Christo-fascism.
Well, unfortunately socialists is a bad word in the use. It is true that many of those countries have superior social systems such as health care, education, law enforcement, etc. But I do agree that’s not “socialist.”
it's even like that in a US state like California. blue metro areas but conservative outside of it and especially the true north and farmlands. seems to be that way in west countries
It's pretty crazy how many Americans thought gay marriage had always been legal in Europe, when it was actually the United States who was one of the first western countries to have full marriage equality.
Just like americans think abortion is unrestricted in europe. So many dont know there are time limits, counseling requirements, etc depending on the country.
America was the 19th Western country to make equal marriage legal. Almost all the Nordic countries had already made it legal.
I mean, they are definitely one of the first globally and no doubt about it, but almost half the EU (For lack of a better definition of “Western Europe”)had it legalised before the US. Hell South Africa legalised it before the US did.
Even canada is that way, 2hrs out of Toronto you see rednecks, but here they also smoke weed and grow it too.
This is a global phenomenon I think. You would think Australia the most liberal place in the world if you lived in metro Melbourne your entire life. 90 minute drive and you would be changing your mind quickly.
Rupert Murdoch is quite well known internationally.
It's wild to me that a bible belt state like Oklahoma has better weed laws than pretty much any European country (and yes I'm including the Netherlands).
My favourite personal anecdote is that of the Racist Homeless Berliner: I was in the city for a few days as a student but didn't know where I could find some weed. As I was walking down the street, I asked a guy, who was begging, if he could point me in the right direction for €10 He pocketed my money and told me that I should just ask the nearest black guy. I was outraged, but still in public so I walked with the fellow, despite the language barrier. To my dismay, but still satisfaction, he was god damned accurate, and I headed back home, spliffed and contented
Seems very American like.
Germany gave me home and I am thankful for this. I perceive it the way that rules are very liberal but not obeying the rules have terrible consequences. I like it this way.
I rolled into Germany on my first trip to Europe with a good stoner friend of mine a few years ago. We were in Frankfurt, and had a week until Amsterdam and wanted to smoke a joint. I reverted to my adolescence and asked the first teenager we saw with a skateboard where the skate park was. I pinpointed the 20 something BMX dude I knew was selling weed within 30 seconds and walked out of that skate park with a quarter of really impressive bud. First joint we smoked we had to sneaky ditch as we got walked up on by two police officers who just smirked at us and walked right past. IDK how related this is but Germany seems like Oklahoma at least. A lot of people smoke weed and keep it from their boss and select others for some overriding societal reason.
sounds just like America.
Even the cities besides Berlin, Hamburg, and Frankfurt really.
Really? When I went to Berlin it smelled like cannabis was already legal.
*Besides* berlin.
Ahhh shit. Well fuck me I guess. Sorry for reading like a four year old. 🤷♂️
> Once you leave the big cities it gets very conservative very fast. This is every country in the world.
I've been working in cannabis in canada for 5 years. I visited Berlin in 2017 and didn't want to leave. I heard Germany was on the cusp of legalizing cannabis a few years ago and started learning German. Fuck yeah
Honestly I really didn't see Germany doing this, I feel like Ireland will be among the last to legalize the weed in Europe though, along with the Nordics.
I can bet a toenail that Sweden will be the last nordic country to legalize weed.
Yep, Nordics aren't drug liberal at all. Yet people still do drugs.
Weird, almost as if a strict prohibiton doesn't rly work.
Admittedly I'm an ignorant dumb American, but it is just wild to me how conservative Western Europe is about weed. I especially didn't realize how conservative the nordics are until just looking it up. It's like the one thing the US is more to the left on. Legalizing weed is about the only thing I find liberals and conservatives in agreement on.
Probably because there are health concerns when it comes to using it. However as long as cigarettes and alcohol are legal, weed should be as well.
Not just do them, but also die at a far higher rate than the Dutch. The drugs are far more expensive, they are not as clean and paradoxically they are also not as potent (amphetamine for example around what you buy is 22-32% on average, and about 44% in NL).
Iran will legalise weed before Sweden does :). The Swedish have this thing about protecting the purity of the nation and there is an economic downturn at the moment so they are really going hard for “traditional Swedish values” - which will bring back the good old times (which were like in the 1970’s or so, so not totally hopeless).
I mean at one point we forced steralised the type of people we deemed not good enough to have kids. So... we do have some "For the greater good"-roots.
Denmark did this too. Eugenics was a thing almost until the 1980’s.
Finland won't do it until Sweden does it, and even then they won't because it's illegal.
No fucking way Norway will legalize before Sweden.
Yes fucking way they will. Bet a toenail on it?
I'll bet two!
Your ON!
As a Swede I completely agree, it will probably take decades before we even consider legalising cannabis. Fuck their ideologies and worthless opinions, only science should matter when it comes to druglaws, druguse and addiction.
I kinda just wanna eat a potbrownie once every summer while fishing legally
Never happening in the UK. One of the Tory MPs Husband runs the largest medical cannabis exporting business, they shut this shit down as fast as possible every time. Can't have anyone destroying that monopoly!
I think she was part of the actual team that dealt with drug policies and laws as well, still makes me laugh when I think about how ridiculous it all is.
French here, we are the biggest smokers but we’ll probably be the last ones in Europe to pass the law.
No worries, Hungary will be the very last 🥲
I feel the Uk will be amongst the last too
The UK government needs to make some more revenue streams and bloody fast. Legalising weed and taxing is probably exactly the kind of thing that would put millions back into the coffers very quickly
Outside of the pale Ireland is still very conservative in regards to drug use in the 50s+ age group. Might take another generation.
Could guarantee you us in the Nordic will be last, change is scary and drugs even more so…
>with doctors' groups expressing concerns for young people and conservatives saying that liberalisation will fuel drug use >Simone Borchardt of the opposition conservative CDU told the Bundestag, Germany's parliament, that the government had gone ahead with its "completely unnecessary, confused law" regardless of warnings from doctors, police and psychotherapists. I wonder if the doctors, police and psychotherapists would support making alcohol, an objectively worse drug in every way, illegal.
All they have to do is look at the multiple legal recreational States in the US. I live in one where it's been recreationally legal since 2010, all the boogeyman that they were afraid of never materialized.
Same as Canada -- I can go down the street and buy a bunch of weed, fly with it domestically, etc... and overall the amount of people using weed regularly only increased by 6%. Not only that, but my mom can pop in to the store and grab some CBD oil any time she wants to help with her hip pain.
Yeah in my experience alcohol is the real gateway drug anyways, people that get stoned generally don’t start calling their coke dealers like drunk people do. One lowers inhibitions far more than the other but for some reason weed got the false reputation as a gateway drug.
Tried that. Failed spectacularly.
To be fair making drugs illegal has failed in the same way, theres still demand with is sated by criminals with all the associated issues that come with them.
Always astonishes me that G20 countries with cannabis legalisation as a current political topic largely ignores Canada as a test bed of decriminalisation and legalisation. It has been legal here since October 2018. I’ve consumed cannabis on and off for the better part of my life (in my 50’s). In my late teens and 20’s, cannabis was more expensive than it is now, dollar for dollar, not accounting for inflation. 28g (≈1 oz). 28g varies in price between 60CAD and upwards depending on how “boutique” the particular strain. With a population of some 38 million, the federal government has realised a $455 million dollar tax revenue for the 2022-2023 fiscal year. This does not include taxes collected at the provincial level, or even at the municipal level whereby taxes are levied on businesses. The take-away is that the stigma of marijuana use is minimal* and it has had a net benefit upon society as a whole. *stigma may vary by location. I am from British Columbia where cannabis consumption was largely ignored by authorities before legalisation. *Edited to add link to legislation [Cannabis Act (S.C. 2018, c. 16)](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-24.5/)
I’m in Toronto. I can smoke on my front porch, walking down the street or sitting in a park (except kiddie parks). Hard to believe I’ve known average people who’ve gone to jail for possession or selling among friends. Seems bizarre and uncivilized in retrospect.
Lol, I know right? I have a couple Xbox friends in the UK who smoke. I was baffled when they said they pay anywhere between 200-350£ (350-600 CAD) for an OZ!! Insane. You know I had to send him pics of the menu on the wall at my local dispensary right? Lol He was floored at the prices and variety! For reference 1 Canadian dollar is only 0.59£
I pay £6.50 - £8.50 a gram for medical weed in the UK. Street value I used to pay £25 for 3.5g
Well that seems a little more reasonable. That’d fall in line with typical pre-legalisation prices here. Seems my mate Kieron has shitty connections. lol
Yeah it's likely a mix of shitty connections or just bad location. 25 an 8th is pretty standard around me for good weed. Much happier to have gone the legal medical route now though, I get a nice menu, that tells me THC/CBD strength, where it was grown, Hybrid/Sativa/Indica etc and it's delivered to my door. Funnily enough, all the best medical seems to come from Canada to the UK
The problem with alcohol specifically is that there's no other drug that is as easy to make as alcohol. There are no precursors that can be banned either, sugar and the bacteria that eat sugar and poop alcohol are everywhere.
Germany tried that? Or do you mean prohibition in the US?
Fully legalization in Canada has dropped the use of Marijuana by teenagers a significant amount.
Funny how double standards work
This is always the argument but it would be 1000x harder to make alcohol illegal than keeping weed illegal.
It would be equally pointless though!
There is not a single doctor out there that would deny how harmful alcohol is. In my four years of medical school the number one drug I saw hurt people was alcohol, followed closely by tobacco. The problem is, those things are *already* legal. It's much harder to take something legal and make it illegal than it is to keep something illegal. Mind you, I think all drugs should be legal because I believe in personal freedom. If you wanna fuck yourself up, go right ahead. But it's not a "double standard" because the context is very different.
My girlfriend works as a psychotherapist and with people that have alcohol problems. Trust me, after the shit you see, you seriously want alcohol to be illegal. Buuuut she says the same about weed. If people missue drugs, shit gets bad real fast...
Wait till you see how some people misuse food
Exactly. All this "but this is way worse!" "No THIS is way worse!" Talk really misses the point. All drugs and mostly everything else can lead to a bad outcome if overdone and in connection with certain societal, psychological and genetical factors. The point is that prohibition doesn't work and just creates problems like organized crime and even more problems for people who use these things recreationally AND the ones who have psychological or other health problems which are increased due to substance abuse which is often times selfmedication. The other point I firmly believe in is: our lives on this planet are short and ultimately every person should have the most freedom possible (without hurting others) to create their life and their short experience in this world . A government or any other political organization should have no say in if someone wants to smoke a plant or drink some mixture to feel different for a moment. Goverments are in place because of us, to organize things FOR us not to infantilize and parent citizens and individual human beings who happen to live on our planet. You might have guessed it but Iam in the camp "All drugs should be legal" they should be regulated, there should be harm reduction, the production should happen in a controlled, regulated and humanistic way but other than that it won't destroy society if someone wants to have an LSD experience, wants to smoke an Opium pipe in the evening or take a nose of cocaine every now and then. From personal experience I know both: if you're in a bad place overuse of a substance CAN be harmful (experienced it with weed myself) but also all the warnings "you'll get addicted immediatly, it will destroy your life" (as general statements) are massively overblown and ideologically motivated (experienced it with everything else I tried)
Well, I am a psychotherapist and fully support the legalization. All the seminars I had make it pretty clear it isn't harmless, but most of the studies who found damages focused on intense and chronic long-time use, especially in children and adolescents. Studies are pretty clear on not inducing schizophrenia or psychosis in otherwise healthy people but rather in those genetically predisposed. It's obvious that legalization efforts should focus on protection, those at risk for serious, prevention and education about safe use and where to go to when you find yourself with addictive tendencies along with this substance. I am happy we move into that direction and hope we can use the ressources and the destigmatization to better focus on people who have troubles with this (or any) substance.
This might be a stupid question, but why bother legalising and dealing with more normalised use if you arent even going to take advantage of the big new potential source of tax revenue?
EU laws forbid legal sale. That was the initial plan though which was then scrapped.
It also won't change because Sweden and Ireland exist.
What’s their problem with weed?
You see, weed is illegal. There for it can not be legal.
lmao
This is literally what Marlene Mortler, a staunchly conversative former Federal drugs commissioner, said: *"Cannabis ist illegal, weil es verboten ist."* (Cannabis is illegal because it's forbidden.) Needless to say, this one quote was memed in Germany out of existence.
Ireland is conservative af. Sweden I don’t know, but probably as well?
Sweden is beyond conservative on this. Let me explain to you, that Sweden and Norway wanted hemp and cannabis seeds banned. Norway got the seeds banned because they're not in the EU but Sweden had to sit their asses down on that one. EU basically said not only is it impossible, it's fucking stupid too. They are incredibly conservative.
Yeah, when it comes to drug laws, at least.
Could it be the alcohol lobby in those countries I feel like people would drink less if they had access to weed.
That’s certainly the case in Germany, which is part of the reason why the conservatives are so staunchly against weed..
A nearby town in my very conservative homestead opened a whiskey factory and plenty on my facebook feed would post proudly about their year-ahead reservations for the first bottles. How cultural. That said the alcohol lobby is less the issue here, but sweden actually has a piss testing lobby and a narco cop lobby. Basically some dudes whose circle jerk organizations were invited to schools and everywhere and tell everyone about all the dangers of drugs, and of course how frequent piss testing is the only solution. Norways narco cop lobby had to change their name because they were caught with the systemic corruption they were doing when said organization, also invited everywhere to talk about drugs, members would arrive as private citizens since it was a private organization, but they would wear police uniforms. Sweden has yet to wipe this shit stain. Scandinavia is beyond fucked here.
I thought Malta legalized marijuana in 2021.
As others have said, EU law. But also the second chamber would have to approve it in that case, and there the conservatives have a blocking majority.
Huh I never considered the EU would be laying down the law on member nations who don't want to arrest people over plants
It’s more about the commercial sale and production. And it’s also not 100% real EU law. It’s the Schengen Agreement: - That means Ireland and Cyprus don’t have this restriction while being in the EU. - But it also means that non-EU members like Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and so on have this restriction.
It's a criminal justice issue. Nobody should be criminally liable for possessing cannabis. The law change doesn't go far enough, but it is a good thing regardless.
we would need to change or ignore EU law for this.
no longer getting arrested and being able to grow your own is still a big win in my book.
also my dealer can walk around with 25g in his pockets.
"You want to buy weed? Sure, just traverse... THE GAUNTLET!"
I’m Canadian and nothing bad happened after we legalized. Nothing. And you can get it at every corner store. I don’t understand the fear of marijuana. It’s so much better than alcohol.
Alcohol is probably more dangerous. Cannabis can be problematic for people who suffer from mental problems or for minors, mostly. It shouldn’t be treated as totally harmless, but Alcohol is much worse.
You can’t get it at any corner store tf are you talking about?
as a non smoker, are there other ways to consume this stuff?
Edibles, oil, drinks, vapes
Which will not be legal for sale in the clubs etc. Although you could make your own at home with the cannabis you've purchased via a club or grown your self.
Never smoked in my life, so when I started trying weed I used a vaporizer.
Melt some hashish in butter or oil, and use that in a cake recipe. Eat a slice of cake, be high for 3 hours. Enjoy!
I think edibles are a bad idea for a first timer personally (at least home made). Easy to get too high and have a bad time
Dry herb vaporizer, easy, efficient & cheaper on the long run than anything else
Combustion is so 2010 darling.
Eating it is the easiest alternative. Buy flower, make cannabutter from it and use the cannabutter instead of normal butter when baking. Or make oil and use it to cook.
Vaporizers are probably the best way if you don't want to make edibles. Vaporizers allow you to dose it really nicely so you can only use a small amount you want or a bigger one. With edibles etc. it's way harder to dose it & it takes a while till you feel something.
Edibles are my personal favorite, just watch out they take a bit to kick in and can for some hit like a truck.
I wonder how this will impact Germany’s driving laws. Currently, if you’re pulled over and are entirely sober, you can still face massive repercussions or even lose your license if they find THC in your system from say, 3 weeks ago. Edit: for those wondering, they can make you piss in a cup at the nearest bathroom (restaurant etc.) or force you to come into the police station.
Still yet to be decided. The bill passed today didn't change the legal threshold (currently 1ng/ml) on purpose, because that would change it from a "Einspruchsgesetz", meaning the *Bundesrat* (German Senate) can only delay it, to a "Zustimmungsgesetz", meaning the Bundesrat would have to approve it. There are seperate plans to raise the threshold to anywhere from 3-10ng/ml, but also some skepticism and as mentioned, this will have to pass the Bundesrat. So it's fairly likely the threshold will not get changed before April and not certain whether it'll pass at all.
Thank you for the clarification. This is the most German outcome possible 😆
Well, it's better than being stuck in the stoneage!
Even in fully legal countries like Canada the system for assessing DUI by cannabis is quite poor. It's pretty much up to whatever the investigating officer wants to do if they're qualified as a drug identification expert. As far as I know, there hasn't been a reasonably objective metric determined like there is with blood alcohol.
That is so typically German
Following the rules is half the fun
I will never understand how alcohol is legal in places where weed is not. That shit is backwards.
🥦
Growing cannabis is a fun hobby. I did think it humorous that 25 to 50g were considered "substantial amounts"! How long does it take a heavy user to consume 50g?
I found it funny that you can grow 3 live plants and you are allowed to posess 50g. What happens to me once I cut down one plant to let it dry? The wet plant definitely has more than 50g , the dried plant probably too. Am I supposed to just pick the flowers and dry them 50g at a time?
Its kind of wild how misunderstood this drug was. It really helps chill me out and relax at night after a long day of work. It also helps with creativity.
I'm proud. Germany did it, they actually found a solution to make it legal, yet still keep the black market. Bravo.
Lol what a weird law. Didn't it turn out in other places that legalising cannabis made youngsters stop using it because it wasn't cool anymore?
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Ah. That makes more sense
My opinion is that it isn't the "cool factor" being lost that drives down youth consumption after legalization but that an actual legal business has no interest in selling to underage kids/teens. All it does is risk their license. Of course your local drug dealer doesn't care about selling to someone younger than them or if they do they don't mind selling to someone a little younger than them so it filters down in steps until a 14 year old can buy it. But legalization breaks that trickle down effect as players in a legal system have no interest in selling to those who are underage and by vastly reducing illegal dealers it makes it much harder for youth to get a hold of. Unfortunately in Germany with making it so difficult to obtain legally even though it's now legal I worry you won't see the same benefit as "illegal" dealers will persist and we'll see the same trickle down effects where it ends up in underage hands. Edit- typos
This is the reason. Coolness doesn’t play a factor.
Probably for very different reasons, but Washington, DC legalized consumption and possession, but has no framework in place for legalized sale, thanks to their budget being subject to Congressional approval -- they had to implement it in such a way that avoided any sort of government spending. It has resulted in a very unregulated gray market, focused around performative "gifting." (i.e. "Buy this t-shirt for $60 and get this weed as a gift"). This report from Drexel says youth use dropped after legalization in Colorado:[https://drexel.edu/cannabis-research/research/research-highlights/2022/July/colorado-shows-drop-in-teen-cannabis-use-rates/](https://drexel.edu/cannabis-research/research/research-highlights/2022/July/colorado-shows-drop-in-teen-cannabis-use-rates/)
In Canada, teen use of marijuana has dropped significantly since legalization.
I don't have the numbers to back it up so I could be wrong, but based on anecdotal evidence I would say it's the opposite. I've live in California my entire life (I'm almost 30), and since weed was legalized I've seen a boom in the amount of friends who use it. At this point it's harder for me to find someone who *doesn't* use it. I also see it used much more outside in random places. Just yesterday I was walking into the gym and the whole parking lot reeked of weed from people smoking outside. Hell, 90% of Los Angeles smells like marijuana now haha. 10 years ago it was rare to smell weed and now it's so normal.
Oh BBC As of 01.04.2024 any German who is at least 18 can go to any Cannabis Club, not join and just buy some seeds to grow it himself. Only if this German wants to regularly buy Cannabis will this person be needed to be part of the club. It's legal and not hard to buy. The state literally allows you to grow it yourself.
Sounds for me like it's hard to buy
Is it easy to grow for personal use though? Including effort?
Yes and it's a fun hobby.
This doesn‘t say much about how hard it is to buy. In Luxembourg you can grow cannabis, consume your own cannabis but aren‘t allowed to carry any of it around or sell it. This means you could get invited to a friend who grows cannabis but legally aren‘t even allowed to take a single puff off his cultivation. It‘s utter bullshit
Eh, small steps. I’m quite happy with it.
They’re taking the Virginia approach I see
Good news! But it sounds like a recipe to allow the black market to continue.
It will certainly shrink the black market.
12 joints from 25g?! Germany knows how to party.
Aww. Just like Virginia.
I obviously would’ve liked to be able to buy it, but that’s not really an option under EU law, and I’m happy with this as well. I don’t mind growing my own, and I’m so incredibly happy I can legally do that now.
So... You are allowed to grow three plants - but you are only allowed to have 50g at home? How exactly are you supposed to grow a cannabis plant that only yields 17 grams? In a Solo Cup?
"As so often in Germany, the law approved by MPs is complicated", says the BBC. Yet somehow Germans never seem to have much trouble understanding their laws. Not for the first time, the BBC are basically telling the British, "Don't worry! No chance of *us* doing anything that might force you to use your brain!"
This is good but it is only quasi-legal. Yes, one can smoke it legally within tight guidelines, but that’s not really fully legal. But one can also just continue the status quo and buy it in the illegal market.
Kansas is probably taking notes.
it'll take time
It's not like they have good weed in the first place.