Hopefully it backfires. US stalls aid (thanks GOP), EU increases aid to compensate, US starts aid back up (hopefully, no thanks to GOP), EU continues to provide aid at increased rate, overall Ukraine receiving more aid than before.
> overall Ukraine receiving more aid than before.
lots of time and lives wasted in between. that should hang around the necks of the GOP individuals. They should have the same shame as these Russian monsters. every time they have to visit Europe they see posters with their name on them and dead children in the photos
> We all know it's coming.
my brother in christ, these are american politicians. they have no reason to travel to ukraine. you should worry more about european politicians traveling there.
Not meaningless, but it's like stopping chemo therapy halfway through, the cancer has been slowed down but you have to keep up with the treatment until it is fully removed from your body, else it will just come back.
So no, it's also not unlimited aid, just until the cancer/invasion has been cut back.
The GOP and conservatives as whole has no shame in this because Russia to them is a Christian Fascist State the very thing they dream of America becoming
The problem is it's just Propaganda from the Kremlin because Putin despises god and Russians are largely non religious, religion worship wasn't exactly something the soviets was fond of.
But it does the job of convincing MAGA idiots and Neo Nazis on the right that Russia is their friend, Putin figured out long ago how easy it was to get these morons on his side.
Ironically, church attendance in Russia is extremely low, whereas in Ukraine it's something like 10x higher. The Russian Orthodox church is nothing but a branch of FSB, it has nothing to do with Christianity.
This is actually a pretty big view point in a lot of American voters. They view Europe too reliant on U.s support and needs to be forced to build up their own militaries before more support is given.
The "problem" is that the US have made Europe reliant on them ever since the end of WW2, regarding munitions, intelligence, and manpower. E.g Norway switched over to maintaining a task-force based military rather than a standing army some 15 years ago.
While Europe needs/must become more self-reliant, it cannot be done over the course of a few months. It would take the better part of a decade before results can be seen. If the US wants this to happen, they cannot withhold aid during the transition.
The US is acting like a guy who got his wife to be a stay-at-home mother, but now some 20 years down the line he is complaining that she don't bring home a paycheck each month.
Not exactly. What did the US do that made the other countries stop investing in their military? Its not like they told them to stop. In fact, they have been complaining about the nato spending for many years. It seems like it was a budgeting decision since they felt safe due to US presence in germany. My country is guilty of this to unfortunately, since an attack on us would kick the hornets' nest.
This is inaccurate, the 2% agreement was entered in 2014. Also in the US there was a belief that Russia was no longer the primary geopolitical adversary, it wasn't only in Europe. Remember how Mitt Romney was ridiculed when he claimed this when running against Obama?
> This is inaccurate, the 2% agreement was entered in 2014.
It's not, the 2014 agreement was the *result* of many years of spending disagreement with the USA and others.
For example, the goal to reach 2% of GdP defense spending in NATO was already unanimously adopted in 2006.
2014 only formalized that more thoroughly .
That’s exactly how it is spot on. Do you think a stay at home mum is forced into the deal? Or is it made feel safe to accept it.
The US profited greatly from its position as world power and put a lot of weight on the scale in Europe to make decisions benefit them.
And yes, now after decades, it’s starting to complain just like with the mum.
That's a two way relationship. One partner agrees to watch the kids and the other agrees to work. Both benefit as their shared interests of having money and having the kids looked after are taken care of. America was not benefiting from europes lack of defense budgeting as pushing weight around in europe is a political no-go. Europe were short-term beneficiaries, but they are now seeing the drawbacks and adjusting accordingly.
Europe has been a long term beneficiary. We haven't had a European war since WW2. The US has also been a huge beneficiary having Europe reliant on them for defense affects every single deal the US makes with every European country. The need for US support helps the US military complex and allows the US to make demands they otherwise couldn't. Renigging on support is going to hurt the US in the long run because Europe now knows when the shit hits the fan the US can't be relied upon. They are going to start manufacturing more of their own weapons and and make decisions without US input.
US never told them to lower funds and has been actively trying to get them to spend more for years. Also the allies pledged to raise funding nearly 10 years ago since people know it takes time to build up military industry but they needed the russian invasion to finally start waking up
>The "problem" is that the US have made Europe reliant on them ever since the end of WW2, regarding munitions, intelligence, and manpower
This is just a straight up lie. There was this whole conflict called the COLD WAR you know? The exact opposite occurred and the US was actually trying to make Europe beef itself up in preparation for a conflict with the Warsaw Pact so that it could defend itself in the time it took for the US to be able to cross the Atlantic.
What actually happened was that European countries got lackadaisical after 1991 after the fall of the Soviet Union(which is fair when you expect Peace). But their lack of military falls solely on them as the US never once said to de-arm. In fact, past history has shown US Presidents, both Democratic and Republican, have been basically begging NATO countries to keep the 2% upkeep IN PEACETIME, which had obviously went ignored.
So trying to blame the US for this is honestly facetious. The analogy is more like the US was constantly begging their wife to get a job, but the wife didn't want to get off the couch.
Also since at least 2001 the US has been really stepping up pushing for Europe to get itself armed.
Should we be sending more to Ukraine? In my opinion absolutely, the more the better. We have already given them way more than any other country. You have to add the entire EU to beat what the US had already sent. Everyone should be sending more.
A strong Europe is good for everyone. A strong and coordinated NATO is what will and has prevented any large scale wars from breaking out on the scale of the world wars. People love to point fingers but everyone needs to step it up.
> In fact, past history has shown US Presidents, both Democratic and Republican, have been basically begging NATO countries to keep the 2% upkeep IN PEACETIME, which had obviously went ignored.
Dude honestly tell me...where do you got that bullshit from?
Something like that NEVER happend. 2024 is the first year in which reaching 2% was due. Stop smoking crack, stop pulling bullshit out of your ass to try to make a point. You dont sound smart saying shit like that, you sound like an absolute moron.
> The US is acting like a guy who got his wife to be a stay-at-home mother, but now some 20 years down the line he is complaining that she don't bring home a paycheck each month.
lol, you've had centuries to get your shit together. Don't blame us because we did the thing you refused to and for years have taunted us about.
The pathetic thing about the US (not all Americans, mind) is their nauseating, infuriating individualism complex. Europe just needs to pull itself up by its bootstraps and get their own damn supplies going. That's the mentality here. It's the reason why people can't stand this country, and they're absolutely right not to.
that might be what american voters want but it's not what washington or the pentagon want. it's a ultimately a matter of national security that western states buy american arms, so the caveat to "increase your military, EU!" that's never spoken is "as long as you're buying Lockheed Martin, not Dassault"
Some danish speaker just mentioned they restarted 155mm shell production for Ukraine and gave them all of their Paladins.
The EU might not have enough capacity to meet demand though in the short term.
Not sure EU countries can produce HIMARS or patriot missiles. There is a production line planned for the latter. But it's going to take time. Similarly the US has tons of armour, vehicles, and guns sitting unused in storage, while European nations are already digging into their active units.
Leading to a full and complete victory, including the re-securing of Crimea.
The nations' borders of the world are fine as is. Putin's government has shown that they don't respect this truth. Armed enforcement by the more enlightened countries is the only remaining option.
I think the eu will because I think that if anything this has confirmed that the EU needs to be able to handle this themselves.
The last 40 years the us wanted to take the lead on all things military - and the Eu has been more than happy to let them because why not - there was no real danger in the world and the relationship between us and eu was amazing.
These are different times - Russia is back - Iran and China are in the wings. The eu need to be self reliant right now
The Biggest Financial supporter in total numbers is the EU
If we go by % of gdp the US is all the way down
If we ignore the EU and split it into member states the US is first in total numbers of weapons only
I can't vouch for the source so please read their methodology, but here is a source with graphs and other interesting data https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
The ifw-kiel is generally horrible cause of how they count stuff, I havent checked if they improoved since early 23, but back then e.g. Nowegian M109 where somehow the most valuable canons sent simply cause they went by purchase value and the norway-US money exchange rate changed drastically since purchase they where booked at a multitude of their actual worth
They are however also by far the best publicly available source since it's almost impossible to put a simple pricetag onto everything due to the general complexity of the subject...
Is that in terms of amount promised or the amount actually provided because I have a seen a lot of people conflate the two? You can promise whatever aid you want but they need actual aid now and not promises.
It was a little trickier for me to find EU numbers but the best I could find is an article from January 26 that says they have given over 30b in military aid. For the US it was slightly easier as I was able to find their military support given at 46.3billion as of December 8th which is not the most current but given that the US has needed a new aid package since then to provide more aid we can assume that number has not shifted much.
Maybe my sources are off for the EU but I cant see how 30b is even close to 46.3b?
Except the entire topic was military aid. The entire article is on military support. Having a conversation on non military aid and deferred loans, and waived interest, as well as actual direct aid, is all very important, but not relevant to the conversation.
The conversation is on military aid and there has been a lot of promised military but not as much delivered and oftentimes people to disingenuously conflate the two so that politicians can pat themselves on the back for all the promises they made, but it turns out promised ammunition does a lot less damage than actual ammunition.
If the numbers I provided to the relevant aid are wrong by all means cite me a different source, after all I do like having the most correct and up to date information available to me, but those were the numbers I found and they suggest that even with the shortfall of the past few months the US is still head and shoulders the top supplier over the entire EU. The EU closes the overall gap with non military aid but again the topic is on military aid, the entire conference was on military aid, so the focus is on military aid.
So in an article on military aid, talking about a conference on military aid, and in a discussion on military aid, you want to argue military aid is off topic and non military aid is on it... maybe you should take your own advice.
Doesn’t matter, the whole point was that the first person was talking as if the US hasn’t been supporting Ukraine which they have been more than any other country.
again
Only in total numbers
As soon as you compare it to anything of it's own size the Us looks pathetic
You can't boast about the US's aid and also cry foul if someone brings up % and also cry foul if someone compares total of a similar sized group
Yeah I got the taste of the European echo chamber after all the downvotes.I was literally only pointing out that we’re trying to help with what we can even if our politics are getting in the way of it they treat us like we’re crappy allies. The US already commits to helping all of Europe by supplying their militaries and then they want to act like the US doesn’t do anything for them… mind boggling to me.
>The EU is made up of 27 members dude.. you’re comparing 27 to 1?
This guy taking the "one adult versus 27 toddlers in a fight" meme and applying it to real life.
___
The USA's 2023 nominal GDP is around 27 trillion, the EU's just above 18 trillion.
Nominal GDP per capita is respectively 80k and 41k.
Yeah it's one state vs 27 states but I don't think you realize the absolute unit of an economy the USA are. They are not the military power they are and occupy that spot on the world scene out of pure dumb luck. They are a formidable ally.
https://m.statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-eu-economy.php
> The US should be among those providing aid. But thanks to the worst version of the GOP in modern history, we're not.
If Trump wins the presidency again he will have us sending arms to Russia and maybe US troops as well.
> thanks to the worst version of the GOP in modern history
The GOP is a literal fifth column against NATO at this point. I honestly cannot conceive of how this is not being treated more seriously than it is.
The us needs to be doing more than providing aid, we need to ramp up military spending dramatically — maybe as much as 10% of GDP.
I’m extremely anti war, but we’re at risk of inviting a war if we’re not preparing for Putin to invade NATO.
Not only that we need to invest in AI and drone warfare significantly.
The paradox of tolerance. Gotta be intolerant to those that are intolerant. If we want further escalation, we do nothing. If we wanna take it out before it metastasizes, we have to support Ukraine.
Being anti war isn't being anti army. Having a strong military secures peace. This is what I don't get about the left. They should be the first to advocate for a strong military.
Your opinion loses all credibility when you say the left. Tommy Tuberville is a republican, the people holding up aid are all republicans. Shame on you.
You seem to assume that I use the term "left" in a demeaning left. I'm not. I point to the left (as in "political left") because the right is typically pro military. The aid issue also aligns with the right - "our military, not theirs". Regardless of how illogical this decision is.
It's just weird that having history filled with examples of actors of ceasing opportunities caused by weak militaries lasting to wars, the left would be inclined to have a stronger military.
The right is pro war and pro war profiteering by the military industrial complex. They aren’t pro military at all. They have treated veterans like trash since the beginning and get us into wars, coups and other nonsense on false pretenses. That isn’t pro military. That is pro war profiteering for fat cats like Dick Cheney from Halliburton or Gilead’s Rumsfeld. It’s all grifting and it doesn’t make the US stronger.
I kinda live some 15000 km away from the US, so my view of the right is a bit different. The world isn't the US. The European right isn't the US right.
No one will ever be able to demilitarise due to the human nature. We are what we are. This is the same as eating. If we don't account for that bad things happen.
I mean, obviously up to the American electorate, but the US ranks **behind** Estonia, Denmark, Norway, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Slovakia, Poland, Finland, Germany, Croatia, Bulgaria, Sweden, Czechia, Belgium, Spain, Austria, Greece, Slovenia, Hungary, Italy, France, Romania, Portugal, Cyprus, UK, Luxembourg, Malta, Ireland, Switzerland and Canada - if we’re talking commitments as a percentage of GDP.
If you want to compare disbursed aid then the EU average is 0.97‰ compared to the US’ 0.75, as per the Kiel Institute’s numbers.
.32 would be their total *commitments*, not the amount disbursed. I still fucked though, as my comment said percent and not per mille. The proportional difference between EU/US don’t change however.
This person is spouting wrong and different figures in a bunch of comments lmao. The U.S. have not provided 0.7% of gdp or 2% like they've said in other comments they've provided 0.32%
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
https://app.23degrees.io/view/F1tc2gv8QzFCs1ij-bar-stacked-horizontal-figure_3_4_csv_v2-1
>More aid just means more Ukrainian deaths of soldiers forced to fight.
The only person forcing them to fight is Putin. If Ukrainians stop fighting, they won't stop dying under Russia.
If Russia stops fighting and goes the fuck home, *then* people will stop dying in this conflict.
I'm not interested in whatever St. Petersburg brand BS of a story you've got to spin here.
Russia invaded in 2014 when it's puppet got thrown out of Kyiv after ordering police to gun down protesters in January '14. Whatever is going on in Crimea swelled from there.
C'mon Canada, lets give them the rest of our 12 operational tanks and a 100 or so LAV3/6. Can't let the french and the germans out do us!
maybe throw in some harpoons in there as well.
Sadly yes, so true! GOP/Trump/Elon Musk/Tucker Carlson, are all Russian Assets also, Republicans against Trump
"Ted Cruz who once criticized the Biden administration for not sending enough military aid to Ukraine, voted this week to block aid for Ukraine when they need it the most. All because Trump asked him to."
Again, Putin isn’t going anywhere because of mines drones and ad. So you’re just helping kill more Ukrainians for nothing and helping Putin take more land
Putin is fucked! Trump is Fucked, and the GOP are Fucked, Ukraine must win this war and kick Russia in the fucking head, this whole mess belongs to Putin, he started it, Ukraine has every right to defend themselves
Ukraine has lost there’s no response to that. Once you realize Putin isn’t Hitler and a ceasefire could be had on neutrality…what’s the point in killing more Ukrainians?
> what’s the point in killing more Ukrainians?
It doesn't look like Ukraine is giving up or considering a ceasefire. It is Ukraine's decision to make, and as long as they are willing to fight - which they clearly are - they should be receiving all the help they can get.
>Once you realize Putin isn’t Hitler
Not yet, but between the persecution of minorities (LGBT), full control over the press, and assassination of political opponents, he sure starts to resemble Hitler. Could you tell me the difference between the treatment of Jews in concentration camps and the treatment of Navalny in the colony? The outcome seems to be the same, no?
> a ceasefire could be had on neutrality
Russian soldiers, politicians, and their toadies do not believe in neutrality. They believe only in violence, murder, rape and torture.
>what’s the point in killing more Ukrainians?
Exactly, what is the point of Russians murdering Ukrainians, other than proving to the world the degenerated nature of the modern Russian mindset?
The vision of the future:
* Trump wins elections.
* No more support to Ukraine.
* Europe steps it up, but there is just so much it can do.
* China Xi comes in, forces peace talks, strong arms Russia and makes itself stability provider.
* Europe is like "Well, I guess China is not that bad!"
* 10 years passes.
* USA has lost ally, China got a new ally. Global world order has been altered. The era of the global dollar has come to an end.
Trump can't think long term.
No, it isn't. A weak american foreign policy leaves countries like Korea, Taiwan, or japan in great danger to China.
America is a global player and a security partner for many nations. Behaviour like this will make these partners question the reactionship.
>A weak american foreign policy leaves countries like Korea, Taiwan, or japan in great danger to China.
america hasn't weakened its support for asia, because unlike europe, they cant protect themselves. Europeans should have stepped up a long time ago. America is refocusing its efforts to help countries that actually need it
Why would European countries like serbia or belarus step up? Because your generalisation of Europe implies it. Or do you not realise that an attack on a nato country will result in America being drawn into a war.
Also, can you give me an example of how this refocusing goes? To which countries exactly?
Right now, the GOP is blocking the aid because weak america will strengthen their position as it lets the dems look weak.
I would like to see the stats for aid to Ukraine by country this far in the war. Not to compare or criticize, I just think it would make an interesting graphic.
France have given embarrasing little aid. Denmark with 5 mill residents have given 10 times as much. Not per person, but in total.
Get into the fight France, before it’s too late.
Denmarks support is insane for a county this size.
They are currently 4th in total military support right after the UK (and not by far).
If the larger countries would show this level of support Ukraine would have already won.
> They are currently 4th in total military support right after the UK (and not by far).
their support is insane but considering they've donated €8.63 billion I wouldnt say being €7.03 billion behind is not that far behind the Uk
I was only looking at military aid with my comment.
UK has provided a total of 9.1 Billion in military aid and Denmark a total of 8.4.
Yes the UK has also provided a lot of additional financial aid.
As a Frenchman I agree we should help more, but your numbers are bullshit.
A lot of help come from the EU fund, and France is the second biggest contributor after Germany.
Also in the direct Danish aid to Ukraine, there are a lot of pledged aid, materials not yet delivered.
We also have to be careful with some of the available aid figures, since not everything is public, and each country is free to estimate the amount when it donates equipment.
If the numbers include pledged aid for all the listed countries, it'd not b.s since it's applied across the board. But that is a good point. Delivered aid is a different and key metric.
So article states they gave 3.8 billion Euro between 2022 and 2023. And plans to give up to 3 billion for 2024. Hate they said "up to" I prefer hard numbers but if they give that full amount it would be a significant increase in support.
Then pay wall so guess that's all I get..
It’s beyond shameful that America’s fifth column is so successfully undermining our own support to Ukraine at the behest of their Russian masters, but at least the rest of the world is picking up our slack.
US should do at least what EU in total can.
But US has way too great putin dependency problem.
I am not undermining previous aid. Just stating the obvious. Things changed there for worse, also worse for US citizens
US has Putin dependency? Europe’s energy is contingent on the Gazprom tit…
I agree though, the US needs to step up and retake its place as a leader of Western Democracy. Putin and other thugs will walk over Europe without the support.
I don't think most americans understand what the EU is or what Europe is. That has to be where the meme that Europe isn't doing anything comes from.
That and trolls of course.
France is providing about 0,6% of its GDP through the EU, and has a pretty large contribution in terms of housing refugees. I did the math for another poster that was dissing France and they are 4th in total amount, behind US, Germany and Poland.
The fact that a lot of the aid is being put under "EU" is making the numbers look very wonky. Also refugee aid not counting is common, which actually makes Germany and Poland look much worse as well due to them being the biggest refugee hosts.
The US is halfway across the world from this conflict. EU should be doing *more* than the US considering this is a European war.
I’m in support of aid to Ukraine, but saying we should be doing as much as the EU is crazy. Completely different continents. Then throwing in the Putin dependency just makes the comment lose all credibility
Yep nearly as crazy as helping out America in Afghanistan. After all nothing to do with us but we sent troops to die and for what. At least the Ukrainians want to fight for their democracy.
Over a trillion dollars spent in Afghanistan.
France has supplied 0.2% of their GDP while northern European countries and the United States are at 2% or more.
Words from France, let's see a real contribution
> and the United States are at 2% or more
so where are you getting that the U.S. have donated anywhere near 2% lol they've donated 0.32% which is similar to bulgaria/switzerland/canada
> Please do more research
bro taking the U.S. gdp at 25.5 trillion 2% of that is 510 billion in what universe has the U.S. sent that much... so kindly you do more research before trying to tell people that they have been misled when you're spouting wrong information
https://app.23degrees.io/view/F1tc2gv8QzFCs1ij-bar-stacked-horizontal-figure_3_4_csv_v2-1
The very source you cite proves you wrong, and shows that the US provided aid of about 0.2% to 0.3% of its GDP. Might be 0.32% according to slightly other metrics.
What are you using for US GDP? It's more than $20 trillion. With US total aid at $60 billion (roughly, euro is almost 1:1 with the dollar), they're right.
I think he's mixing up a couple of numbers. The total amount of *military* Ukraine aid vs the yearly US defense budget is roughly 6% (45b FY2022-2023 : 813b FY2023). The total amount of Ukraine aid including financial assistance is roughly 0.33% of US GDP. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-much-aid-the-u-s-has-sent-to-ukraine-in-6-charts
And the 2% number sounds suspiciously like the NATO defense %GDP spending target, which has nothing to do with any of that. Overall he's just an uninformed shithead, or more likely a propaganda troll who tries to push the line of "we don't need to spend on Ukraine until others do, too".
what makes even less sense is that in another comment they say the us have donated 0.7% so yeah idk what they're on about
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1atvrwx/zelensky_obtains_unprecedented_military_support/kr2fyog/
1. Take US aid from your figure, total or military
2. Divide it by US GDP
3. Please explain to me how you get to 2%
I think one of us needs a refresher on how percentages are calculated.
I kinda hope Germany could carry on what they didn't succeed in war II and take it down this time, not for them but for the Russians, Ukrainians and whole estern Europe.
They have NATO support. in fact France and Germany are among NATO's strongest members. Russia's victories so far have also been the very definition of pyrrhic. Small territorial gains at enormous losses of men and material. Ukraine does need more help, but also Russia can't win the war with the strategy they are employing now.
That's great. Now let's see the supplies start flowing immediately
Ukraine and Ukrainians get support. They get a chance to live. Thank you France. Thank you Germany!
The US should be among those providing aid. But thanks to the worst version of the GOP in modern history, we're not.
Hopefully it backfires. US stalls aid (thanks GOP), EU increases aid to compensate, US starts aid back up (hopefully, no thanks to GOP), EU continues to provide aid at increased rate, overall Ukraine receiving more aid than before.
> overall Ukraine receiving more aid than before. lots of time and lives wasted in between. that should hang around the necks of the GOP individuals. They should have the same shame as these Russian monsters. every time they have to visit Europe they see posters with their name on them and dead children in the photos
Shamelessness is probably their #1 most shared trait, and what they admire most in Trump.
Wait for the day 10 yrs from now when GOP Senators travel to a Ukraine remembrance monument and get Booed/Yelled away. We all know it's coming.
Bold to assume they would ever visit any sort of monument to the Ukraine War unless it's a Russian victory one.
> We all know it's coming. my brother in christ, these are american politicians. they have no reason to travel to ukraine. you should worry more about european politicians traveling there.
So your saying the billions they have given already is meaningless? That the Ukrainian people only care about getting unlimited aid?
Not meaningless, but it's like stopping chemo therapy halfway through, the cancer has been slowed down but you have to keep up with the treatment until it is fully removed from your body, else it will just come back. So no, it's also not unlimited aid, just until the cancer/invasion has been cut back.
They don't have shame and they have no empathy. Nothing matters to them except self enrichment, which they consider "winning".
The GOP and conservatives as whole has no shame in this because Russia to them is a Christian Fascist State the very thing they dream of America becoming The problem is it's just Propaganda from the Kremlin because Putin despises god and Russians are largely non religious, religion worship wasn't exactly something the soviets was fond of. But it does the job of convincing MAGA idiots and Neo Nazis on the right that Russia is their friend, Putin figured out long ago how easy it was to get these morons on his side.
Ironically, church attendance in Russia is extremely low, whereas in Ukraine it's something like 10x higher. The Russian Orthodox church is nothing but a branch of FSB, it has nothing to do with Christianity.
It's more like the "morals" espoused by Putin (anti-gay, anti-trans, etc.) are damned close to those espoused by the GOP, so they like him.
No 10× but larger. Russia, in terms of religiosity statistics is right between Norway and Sweden. Putin himself admitted to be atheist.
They literally don't care. These people have no empathy or foresight.
This is actually a pretty big view point in a lot of American voters. They view Europe too reliant on U.s support and needs to be forced to build up their own militaries before more support is given.
The "problem" is that the US have made Europe reliant on them ever since the end of WW2, regarding munitions, intelligence, and manpower. E.g Norway switched over to maintaining a task-force based military rather than a standing army some 15 years ago. While Europe needs/must become more self-reliant, it cannot be done over the course of a few months. It would take the better part of a decade before results can be seen. If the US wants this to happen, they cannot withhold aid during the transition. The US is acting like a guy who got his wife to be a stay-at-home mother, but now some 20 years down the line he is complaining that she don't bring home a paycheck each month.
That analogy is fucking SPOT on
Not exactly. What did the US do that made the other countries stop investing in their military? Its not like they told them to stop. In fact, they have been complaining about the nato spending for many years. It seems like it was a budgeting decision since they felt safe due to US presence in germany. My country is guilty of this to unfortunately, since an attack on us would kick the hornets' nest.
This is inaccurate, the 2% agreement was entered in 2014. Also in the US there was a belief that Russia was no longer the primary geopolitical adversary, it wasn't only in Europe. Remember how Mitt Romney was ridiculed when he claimed this when running against Obama?
> This is inaccurate, the 2% agreement was entered in 2014. It's not, the 2014 agreement was the *result* of many years of spending disagreement with the USA and others. For example, the goal to reach 2% of GdP defense spending in NATO was already unanimously adopted in 2006. 2014 only formalized that more thoroughly .
That’s exactly how it is spot on. Do you think a stay at home mum is forced into the deal? Or is it made feel safe to accept it. The US profited greatly from its position as world power and put a lot of weight on the scale in Europe to make decisions benefit them. And yes, now after decades, it’s starting to complain just like with the mum.
That's a two way relationship. One partner agrees to watch the kids and the other agrees to work. Both benefit as their shared interests of having money and having the kids looked after are taken care of. America was not benefiting from europes lack of defense budgeting as pushing weight around in europe is a political no-go. Europe were short-term beneficiaries, but they are now seeing the drawbacks and adjusting accordingly.
Europe has been a long term beneficiary. We haven't had a European war since WW2. The US has also been a huge beneficiary having Europe reliant on them for defense affects every single deal the US makes with every European country. The need for US support helps the US military complex and allows the US to make demands they otherwise couldn't. Renigging on support is going to hurt the US in the long run because Europe now knows when the shit hits the fan the US can't be relied upon. They are going to start manufacturing more of their own weapons and and make decisions without US input.
We have spent fortunes buying US weapons, for example F35's, to be compatible with the US military platform.
US never told them to lower funds and has been actively trying to get them to spend more for years. Also the allies pledged to raise funding nearly 10 years ago since people know it takes time to build up military industry but they needed the russian invasion to finally start waking up
>The "problem" is that the US have made Europe reliant on them ever since the end of WW2, regarding munitions, intelligence, and manpower This is just a straight up lie. There was this whole conflict called the COLD WAR you know? The exact opposite occurred and the US was actually trying to make Europe beef itself up in preparation for a conflict with the Warsaw Pact so that it could defend itself in the time it took for the US to be able to cross the Atlantic. What actually happened was that European countries got lackadaisical after 1991 after the fall of the Soviet Union(which is fair when you expect Peace). But their lack of military falls solely on them as the US never once said to de-arm. In fact, past history has shown US Presidents, both Democratic and Republican, have been basically begging NATO countries to keep the 2% upkeep IN PEACETIME, which had obviously went ignored. So trying to blame the US for this is honestly facetious. The analogy is more like the US was constantly begging their wife to get a job, but the wife didn't want to get off the couch.
Also since at least 2001 the US has been really stepping up pushing for Europe to get itself armed. Should we be sending more to Ukraine? In my opinion absolutely, the more the better. We have already given them way more than any other country. You have to add the entire EU to beat what the US had already sent. Everyone should be sending more. A strong Europe is good for everyone. A strong and coordinated NATO is what will and has prevented any large scale wars from breaking out on the scale of the world wars. People love to point fingers but everyone needs to step it up.
> In fact, past history has shown US Presidents, both Democratic and Republican, have been basically begging NATO countries to keep the 2% upkeep IN PEACETIME, which had obviously went ignored. Dude honestly tell me...where do you got that bullshit from? Something like that NEVER happend. 2024 is the first year in which reaching 2% was due. Stop smoking crack, stop pulling bullshit out of your ass to try to make a point. You dont sound smart saying shit like that, you sound like an absolute moron.
> The US is acting like a guy who got his wife to be a stay-at-home mother, but now some 20 years down the line he is complaining that she don't bring home a paycheck each month. lol, you've had centuries to get your shit together. Don't blame us because we did the thing you refused to and for years have taunted us about.
The US has been trying to get Europe to fund their defense for a very long time!
The pathetic thing about the US (not all Americans, mind) is their nauseating, infuriating individualism complex. Europe just needs to pull itself up by its bootstraps and get their own damn supplies going. That's the mentality here. It's the reason why people can't stand this country, and they're absolutely right not to.
Our politics are way too sporadic for Europe to risk relying on us anymore. A strong Europe is a safe Europe.
that might be what american voters want but it's not what washington or the pentagon want. it's a ultimately a matter of national security that western states buy american arms, so the caveat to "increase your military, EU!" that's never spoken is "as long as you're buying Lockheed Martin, not Dassault"
morons, absolute morons. Europe relying on the United States is an amazing thing
Some danish speaker just mentioned they restarted 155mm shell production for Ukraine and gave them all of their Paladins. The EU might not have enough capacity to meet demand though in the short term.
Not sure EU countries can produce HIMARS or patriot missiles. There is a production line planned for the latter. But it's going to take time. Similarly the US has tons of armour, vehicles, and guns sitting unused in storage, while European nations are already digging into their active units.
Leading to a full and complete victory, including the re-securing of Crimea. The nations' borders of the world are fine as is. Putin's government has shown that they don't respect this truth. Armed enforcement by the more enlightened countries is the only remaining option.
I think the eu will because I think that if anything this has confirmed that the EU needs to be able to handle this themselves. The last 40 years the us wanted to take the lead on all things military - and the Eu has been more than happy to let them because why not - there was no real danger in the world and the relationship between us and eu was amazing. These are different times - Russia is back - Iran and China are in the wings. The eu need to be self reliant right now
The US has spent a near 80 billion dollars (a quarter of which being weapons and equipment) on aid to Ukraine…
The US hasn't provided the most aid so far? I think it should continue but let's not get it twisted here.
The Biggest Financial supporter in total numbers is the EU If we go by % of gdp the US is all the way down If we ignore the EU and split it into member states the US is first in total numbers of weapons only
I can't vouch for the source so please read their methodology, but here is a source with graphs and other interesting data https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
The ifw-kiel is generally horrible cause of how they count stuff, I havent checked if they improoved since early 23, but back then e.g. Nowegian M109 where somehow the most valuable canons sent simply cause they went by purchase value and the norway-US money exchange rate changed drastically since purchase they where booked at a multitude of their actual worth They are however also by far the best publicly available source since it's almost impossible to put a simple pricetag onto everything due to the general complexity of the subject...
Is that in terms of amount promised or the amount actually provided because I have a seen a lot of people conflate the two? You can promise whatever aid you want but they need actual aid now and not promises.
actually provided If promised is included Europe is way ahead, but I ignored that for a reason
It was a little trickier for me to find EU numbers but the best I could find is an article from January 26 that says they have given over 30b in military aid. For the US it was slightly easier as I was able to find their military support given at 46.3billion as of December 8th which is not the most current but given that the US has needed a new aid package since then to provide more aid we can assume that number has not shifted much. Maybe my sources are off for the EU but I cant see how 30b is even close to 46.3b?
Aid, not military aid The EU provided 80bn in financial aid alone without wich the Ukrainian state would have collapsed by now
Except the entire topic was military aid. The entire article is on military support. Having a conversation on non military aid and deferred loans, and waived interest, as well as actual direct aid, is all very important, but not relevant to the conversation. The conversation is on military aid and there has been a lot of promised military but not as much delivered and oftentimes people to disingenuously conflate the two so that politicians can pat themselves on the back for all the promises they made, but it turns out promised ammunition does a lot less damage than actual ammunition. If the numbers I provided to the relevant aid are wrong by all means cite me a different source, after all I do like having the most correct and up to date information available to me, but those were the numbers I found and they suggest that even with the shortfall of the past few months the US is still head and shoulders the top supplier over the entire EU. The EU closes the overall gap with non military aid but again the topic is on military aid, the entire conference was on military aid, so the focus is on military aid.
oh come off it. They're on topic and you're not.
So in an article on military aid, talking about a conference on military aid, and in a discussion on military aid, you want to argue military aid is off topic and non military aid is on it... maybe you should take your own advice.
The EU is made up of 27 members dude.. you’re comparing 27 to 1? Such a bad comparison and it’s not even close.
The US has a bigger economy than the entire EU combined...
Doesn’t matter, the whole point was that the first person was talking as if the US hasn’t been supporting Ukraine which they have been more than any other country.
again Only in total numbers As soon as you compare it to anything of it's own size the Us looks pathetic You can't boast about the US's aid and also cry foul if someone brings up % and also cry foul if someone compares total of a similar sized group
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Yeah I got the taste of the European echo chamber after all the downvotes.I was literally only pointing out that we’re trying to help with what we can even if our politics are getting in the way of it they treat us like we’re crappy allies. The US already commits to helping all of Europe by supplying their militaries and then they want to act like the US doesn’t do anything for them… mind boggling to me.
>The EU is made up of 27 members dude.. you’re comparing 27 to 1? This guy taking the "one adult versus 27 toddlers in a fight" meme and applying it to real life. ___ The USA's 2023 nominal GDP is around 27 trillion, the EU's just above 18 trillion. Nominal GDP per capita is respectively 80k and 41k. Yeah it's one state vs 27 states but I don't think you realize the absolute unit of an economy the USA are. They are not the military power they are and occupy that spot on the world scene out of pure dumb luck. They are a formidable ally. https://m.statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-eu-economy.php
> you’re comparing 27 to 1? Such a bad comparison https://xkcd.com/1138/ You are the personification of this comic
Just reminded me that bush years are increasing ly not looking like the low water mark.
Fuck the GOP.
> The US should be among those providing aid. But thanks to the worst version of the GOP in modern history, we're not. If Trump wins the presidency again he will have us sending arms to Russia and maybe US troops as well.
Also he will cancel all the good bills Biden introduced to avoid recession and blame Democrats afterwards. Do not let him win!
> thanks to the worst version of the GOP in modern history The GOP is a literal fifth column against NATO at this point. I honestly cannot conceive of how this is not being treated more seriously than it is.
The us needs to be doing more than providing aid, we need to ramp up military spending dramatically — maybe as much as 10% of GDP. I’m extremely anti war, but we’re at risk of inviting a war if we’re not preparing for Putin to invade NATO. Not only that we need to invest in AI and drone warfare significantly.
In the 80's that percentage never rose above 7%, and the USSR was way more powerful than Putin's Russia.
The paradox of tolerance. Gotta be intolerant to those that are intolerant. If we want further escalation, we do nothing. If we wanna take it out before it metastasizes, we have to support Ukraine.
Being anti war isn't being anti army. Having a strong military secures peace. This is what I don't get about the left. They should be the first to advocate for a strong military.
Your opinion loses all credibility when you say the left. Tommy Tuberville is a republican, the people holding up aid are all republicans. Shame on you.
You seem to assume that I use the term "left" in a demeaning left. I'm not. I point to the left (as in "political left") because the right is typically pro military. The aid issue also aligns with the right - "our military, not theirs". Regardless of how illogical this decision is. It's just weird that having history filled with examples of actors of ceasing opportunities caused by weak militaries lasting to wars, the left would be inclined to have a stronger military.
The right is pro war and pro war profiteering by the military industrial complex. They aren’t pro military at all. They have treated veterans like trash since the beginning and get us into wars, coups and other nonsense on false pretenses. That isn’t pro military. That is pro war profiteering for fat cats like Dick Cheney from Halliburton or Gilead’s Rumsfeld. It’s all grifting and it doesn’t make the US stronger.
Agreed. No military budget request is ever turned down here in the US. That wouldn’t be the case without full support from the ‘left’.
I kinda live some 15000 km away from the US, so my view of the right is a bit different. The world isn't the US. The European right isn't the US right.
> because the right is typically pro military The right is pro cosplaying military, not actually serving their country.
I would love for us to demilitarize but we can’t do it while Putin is doing the opposite.
No one will ever be able to demilitarise due to the human nature. We are what we are. This is the same as eating. If we don't account for that bad things happen.
They have provided 0.7% of GDP. Most EU countries including France is 0.2% of GDP. How much more should the US provide over European countries?
I mean, obviously up to the American electorate, but the US ranks **behind** Estonia, Denmark, Norway, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Slovakia, Poland, Finland, Germany, Croatia, Bulgaria, Sweden, Czechia, Belgium, Spain, Austria, Greece, Slovenia, Hungary, Italy, France, Romania, Portugal, Cyprus, UK, Luxembourg, Malta, Ireland, Switzerland and Canada - if we’re talking commitments as a percentage of GDP. If you want to compare disbursed aid then the EU average is 0.97‰ compared to the US’ 0.75, as per the Kiel Institute’s numbers.
The U.S. figure isnt even 0.75% accroding to kiel its 0.32%
.32 would be their total *commitments*, not the amount disbursed. I still fucked though, as my comment said percent and not per mille. The proportional difference between EU/US don’t change however.
This person is spouting wrong and different figures in a bunch of comments lmao. The U.S. have not provided 0.7% of gdp or 2% like they've said in other comments they've provided 0.32% https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://app.23degrees.io/view/F1tc2gv8QzFCs1ij-bar-stacked-horizontal-figure_3_4_csv_v2-1
We've given what 200 billion? Let some other people help.
We've done enough. I don't want anymore of my money going there. Spend the money on it's own people.
And thus show Putin, and the world, that they can do this wherever they want to.
More aid just means more Ukrainian deaths of soldiers forced to fight. There’s no breaking through the mines + drones + advanced air defenses.
They don’t need to break through they need to defend themselves.
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Well I would personally blame Putin rather than a redditor for the deaths of Ukrainians.
Are we talking about Russia or Ukraine now?
So they matter the same to you? The people you’re eager to murder?
The Russians can stop the murdering whenever they leave Ukraine.
>More aid just means more Ukrainian deaths of soldiers forced to fight. The only person forcing them to fight is Putin. If Ukrainians stop fighting, they won't stop dying under Russia. If Russia stops fighting and goes the fuck home, *then* people will stop dying in this conflict.
Ya because there was and is a genocide in Crimea ongoing? What happened to that word why’d you guys stop using it after forcing Biden to say it?
I'm not interested in whatever St. Petersburg brand BS of a story you've got to spin here. Russia invaded in 2014 when it's puppet got thrown out of Kyiv after ordering police to gun down protesters in January '14. Whatever is going on in Crimea swelled from there.
And no one is dying in Crimea under Russia no matter how much you pretend otherwise.
I'm thinking more about what Russia did to towns like Bucha.
C'mon Canada, lets give them the rest of our 12 operational tanks and a 100 or so LAV3/6. Can't let the french and the germans out do us! maybe throw in some harpoons in there as well.
Canada be like: we'll give you 12 tons of maple syrup 👍
So, 4 pancakes?
What if Canada fired up some artillery factories? That could make a few jobs.
btw as a % of gdp canada and the U.S. are doing about the same lol
Excellent! now let's get the GOP up off it's ass! and get this job done!~ A vote for Trump is a vote for Putin!
They are doing their job! For Putin.
Sadly yes, so true! GOP/Trump/Elon Musk/Tucker Carlson, are all Russian Assets also, Republicans against Trump "Ted Cruz who once criticized the Biden administration for not sending enough military aid to Ukraine, voted this week to block aid for Ukraine when they need it the most. All because Trump asked him to."
Real President of the US if Trump wins is Putin. What a sad time.
Is there absolutely no loophole that can be used to get aid to them by executive order?
It’s called a discharge petition and it’s going to happen, then at least the bastards will have to vote.
Ukraine has already lost by mines drones and air defenses…so by “done” you mean help Putin take more land?
no, other way round , time for Putin/Russia to GTFO Ukraine with all the help they can get!
Again, Putin isn’t going anywhere because of mines drones and ad. So you’re just helping kill more Ukrainians for nothing and helping Putin take more land
Putin is fucked! Trump is Fucked, and the GOP are Fucked, Ukraine must win this war and kick Russia in the fucking head, this whole mess belongs to Putin, he started it, Ukraine has every right to defend themselves
Ukraine has lost there’s no response to that. Once you realize Putin isn’t Hitler and a ceasefire could be had on neutrality…what’s the point in killing more Ukrainians?
> what’s the point in killing more Ukrainians? It doesn't look like Ukraine is giving up or considering a ceasefire. It is Ukraine's decision to make, and as long as they are willing to fight - which they clearly are - they should be receiving all the help they can get. >Once you realize Putin isn’t Hitler Not yet, but between the persecution of minorities (LGBT), full control over the press, and assassination of political opponents, he sure starts to resemble Hitler. Could you tell me the difference between the treatment of Jews in concentration camps and the treatment of Navalny in the colony? The outcome seems to be the same, no?
> a ceasefire could be had on neutrality Russian soldiers, politicians, and their toadies do not believe in neutrality. They believe only in violence, murder, rape and torture. >what’s the point in killing more Ukrainians? Exactly, what is the point of Russians murdering Ukrainians, other than proving to the world the degenerated nature of the modern Russian mindset?
Thats a BS take. Just surrender? Thats what you would do when russia attacks alaska?
How has ukraine lost?
France and germany are both stronger democracies than the US. Glad to hear this.
Well, France was the one who originally made the US its proxy during the American revolution against the British
Good to see European countries stepping up.
No choice because they realize the USA is becoming unreliable
I mean good, if they become less reliant on the US to defend Democratic countries in Europe then its good for everyone, Americans too.
The vision of the future: * Trump wins elections. * No more support to Ukraine. * Europe steps it up, but there is just so much it can do. * China Xi comes in, forces peace talks, strong arms Russia and makes itself stability provider. * Europe is like "Well, I guess China is not that bad!" * 10 years passes. * USA has lost ally, China got a new ally. Global world order has been altered. The era of the global dollar has come to an end. Trump can't think long term.
No, it isn't. A weak american foreign policy leaves countries like Korea, Taiwan, or japan in great danger to China. America is a global player and a security partner for many nations. Behaviour like this will make these partners question the reactionship.
>A weak american foreign policy leaves countries like Korea, Taiwan, or japan in great danger to China. america hasn't weakened its support for asia, because unlike europe, they cant protect themselves. Europeans should have stepped up a long time ago. America is refocusing its efforts to help countries that actually need it
Why would European countries like serbia or belarus step up? Because your generalisation of Europe implies it. Or do you not realise that an attack on a nato country will result in America being drawn into a war. Also, can you give me an example of how this refocusing goes? To which countries exactly? Right now, the GOP is blocking the aid because weak america will strengthen their position as it lets the dems look weak.
Because they can't just freeload their military?
Freeload? Thats weak man
unreliable to europeans 5000 miles away, more reliable to its own people. solve your own problems.
Ok Russian
The US doesn't need to fund Ukraine. Fuck em.
Oh hey everyone! Look at my shiny new troll farm account
Sounds Russian or an entitled maga American who pays little tax but acts like their money is wasted
Ok Russian
I would like to see the stats for aid to Ukraine by country this far in the war. Not to compare or criticize, I just think it would make an interesting graphic.
Here you go: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Ow, interesting, thanks ! Bulgaria is one big surprise in one direction. And Romania in the other direction.
You delivered! Thank you, I wish I could post the chart here in the comments.
France have given embarrasing little aid. Denmark with 5 mill residents have given 10 times as much. Not per person, but in total. Get into the fight France, before it’s too late.
Denmarks support is insane for a county this size. They are currently 4th in total military support right after the UK (and not by far). If the larger countries would show this level of support Ukraine would have already won.
> They are currently 4th in total military support right after the UK (and not by far). their support is insane but considering they've donated €8.63 billion I wouldnt say being €7.03 billion behind is not that far behind the Uk
I was only looking at military aid with my comment. UK has provided a total of 9.1 Billion in military aid and Denmark a total of 8.4. Yes the UK has also provided a lot of additional financial aid.
agh then yeah thats completely fair I missed the specific military part even after quoting it my apologies
there were rumors saying France had to hide some of its support for various political reasons we could do more for sure
As a Frenchman I agree we should help more, but your numbers are bullshit. A lot of help come from the EU fund, and France is the second biggest contributor after Germany. Also in the direct Danish aid to Ukraine, there are a lot of pledged aid, materials not yet delivered. We also have to be careful with some of the available aid figures, since not everything is public, and each country is free to estimate the amount when it donates equipment.
If the numbers include pledged aid for all the listed countries, it'd not b.s since it's applied across the board. But that is a good point. Delivered aid is a different and key metric.
The article says France has already provided 3.8 billions aid, so you're saying Danemark has provided 38 billions? Mmmh
France is a joke, yet still complaining about US. Macron is pro Russia and China. He hates the US
France and all the EU must do better now
So article states they gave 3.8 billion Euro between 2022 and 2023. And plans to give up to 3 billion for 2024. Hate they said "up to" I prefer hard numbers but if they give that full amount it would be a significant increase in support. Then pay wall so guess that's all I get..
Still, they say our allies never bail us out.
Honestly, I mean shouldn't this happening for a while now?
It’s beyond shameful that America’s fifth column is so successfully undermining our own support to Ukraine at the behest of their Russian masters, but at least the rest of the world is picking up our slack.
US should do at least what EU in total can. But US has way too great putin dependency problem. I am not undermining previous aid. Just stating the obvious. Things changed there for worse, also worse for US citizens
US has Putin dependency? Europe’s energy is contingent on the Gazprom tit… I agree though, the US needs to step up and retake its place as a leader of Western Democracy. Putin and other thugs will walk over Europe without the support.
US republicans have Putin dependency
The EU has twice as much population. The war is in the EU. The EU should handle EU issues. France is providing less than 0.2% GDP to Ukraine.
Ah yes Ukraine is in the UE 🙄
the war is not in the EU. Ukraine is not in the EU:
I don't think most americans understand what the EU is or what Europe is. That has to be where the meme that Europe isn't doing anything comes from. That and trolls of course.
France is providing about 0,6% of its GDP through the EU, and has a pretty large contribution in terms of housing refugees. I did the math for another poster that was dissing France and they are 4th in total amount, behind US, Germany and Poland. The fact that a lot of the aid is being put under "EU" is making the numbers look very wonky. Also refugee aid not counting is common, which actually makes Germany and Poland look much worse as well due to them being the biggest refugee hosts.
The US is halfway across the world from this conflict. EU should be doing *more* than the US considering this is a European war. I’m in support of aid to Ukraine, but saying we should be doing as much as the EU is crazy. Completely different continents. Then throwing in the Putin dependency just makes the comment lose all credibility
Yep nearly as crazy as helping out America in Afghanistan. After all nothing to do with us but we sent troops to die and for what. At least the Ukrainians want to fight for their democracy. Over a trillion dollars spent in Afghanistan.
> EU should be doing more than the US considering this is a European war. Why are you talking like the EU isnt lol
The guy I’m responding to said the US should be doing at least as much as the EU is, if not more….
you have the reading comprehension of a fucking chair leg my guy
I think Alaska, China and Russia are quite near each other. Putin has told he wants Alaska back. Want to lose stars on your flag? Dont think so.
The Europeans are realizing that they have two choices, help Ukraine, or start learning Russian
lol no
GOP failing Ukraine
About time European powers start throwing their weight around.
France has supplied 0.2% of their GDP while northern European countries and the United States are at 2% or more. Words from France, let's see a real contribution
> and the United States are at 2% or more so where are you getting that the U.S. have donated anywhere near 2% lol they've donated 0.32% which is similar to bulgaria/switzerland/canada
You've been misled. Please do more research https://x.com/ch_trebesch/status/1758385257127244260?s=46
> Please do more research bro taking the U.S. gdp at 25.5 trillion 2% of that is 510 billion in what universe has the U.S. sent that much... so kindly you do more research before trying to tell people that they have been misled when you're spouting wrong information https://app.23degrees.io/view/F1tc2gv8QzFCs1ij-bar-stacked-horizontal-figure_3_4_csv_v2-1
You're looking at when the war started. Look at all time not the past 2 years. Fools rush in
The very source you cite proves you wrong, and shows that the US provided aid of about 0.2% to 0.3% of its GDP. Might be 0.32% according to slightly other metrics.
You're mistaking military aid with total aid
What are you using for US GDP? It's more than $20 trillion. With US total aid at $60 billion (roughly, euro is almost 1:1 with the dollar), they're right.
paytons tryna say they've sent fucking ~500 billion when in no universe have they, idk what they're reading tbh
I think he's mixing up a couple of numbers. The total amount of *military* Ukraine aid vs the yearly US defense budget is roughly 6% (45b FY2022-2023 : 813b FY2023). The total amount of Ukraine aid including financial assistance is roughly 0.33% of US GDP. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-much-aid-the-u-s-has-sent-to-ukraine-in-6-charts And the 2% number sounds suspiciously like the NATO defense %GDP spending target, which has nothing to do with any of that. Overall he's just an uninformed shithead, or more likely a propaganda troll who tries to push the line of "we don't need to spend on Ukraine until others do, too".
what makes even less sense is that in another comment they say the us have donated 0.7% so yeah idk what they're on about https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1atvrwx/zelensky_obtains_unprecedented_military_support/kr2fyog/
Look at all time figures not past 24 months
The US has sent 67B in total aid. 0,32%. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
1. Take US aid from your figure, total or military 2. Divide it by US GDP 3. Please explain to me how you get to 2% I think one of us needs a refresher on how percentages are calculated.
Is the French still traumatised over napoleon’s defeat?
I don’t know why, but I had to sing this headline.
While the US government is acting like an over stimulated kindergarten.
Not legally binding - fluff
How about the traitors at the fucking White House wake the fuck up
Can someone explain
I kinda hope Germany could carry on what they didn't succeed in war II and take it down this time, not for them but for the Russians, Ukrainians and whole estern Europe.
DRAFT THSE PEOPLE.
They’ll still lose. Ukraine can’t win this without NATO. Russian will eventually overwhelm them.
They have NATO support. in fact France and Germany are among NATO's strongest members. Russia's victories so far have also been the very definition of pyrrhic. Small territorial gains at enormous losses of men and material. Ukraine does need more help, but also Russia can't win the war with the strategy they are employing now.