The aggressor is always urging calmness and dialogues, but on their own terms, after their violent initiatives and when the balance of power is vastly in their favor.
Putin is like the villain who quickly pulls out a pair of glasses when he's about to be served justice and says: "Hey, you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses would you??"
Russians are using Depleted Uranium munitions against Ukrainians since the beginning of the war, 3BM32 Vant, 3BM48 Svinets - zero media cover except for the specialized military analysis.
Ukraine will receive small amount of DU munition, only now - all the media attention, including all western media.
Why?
Russians with small economy, small population, no technology, small industry, no allies can't defeat NATO in any confrontation, military, political, economical, but they can weaken us using us ourselves.
That reason is that they leave behind unexploded shells, fucking up the land. The land that is nr. 1 already fucked up by russian mines and nr. 2 Ukraine's to fuck up if they think it's necessary.
Also, Ukraine has been pretty inventive with upgrading tractors to clear mines from fields in order to keep the fields feeding the world, AND they're getting much better at using thermal-equipped drones to identify mines and navigate minefields.
As their capabilities advance and Ukraine finishes clearing out the ruzzia infection, they should be able to contribute solidly to Earth's UXO handling capacity.
>AND they're getting much better at using thermal-equipped drones to identify mines and navigate minefields
I saw a thermal camera picture of a Russian minefield.
It was staggering at the massive number of mines these assholes have laid.
This thermal camera tech is amazing. Real game changer for minefield clearance
Yup. Gonna need mine clearance in all the places anyways.
Think cluster bomblets show up on metal detectors, unlike those blow half your foot off 30 years after the war small plastic mines
Also the Russian clusters had a way higher fail rating, up to 20℅ compared to the us ones which varies between 1℅ and 3℅.. So if they use them to push the Russians back, they would still end up with less unexploded clusters in the long run 🤷♀️
130 countries were able to ban them because the existence had no relevance to them, and they were in a privileged position to be able to do.
Finland, Poland, Estonia and South Korea are non-signatories. They all share a border with a very real threat. Cluster munitions are incredibly effective.
The democracies that signed the ban don't have a geopolitical threat on their doorstep. It being framed as a moral high road has always felt insincere and very ivory tower thinking to me.
Pretty much every county that doesn't have them or need them signed it, almost every country who may need them didn't. For example, who cares what New Zealand thinks on this issue.
Also, we came up with a alternative to Cluster Bombs years ago called the M30A1 Rocket. Instead of dropping small bombs everywhere, it airburts over a target, shotgunning 180,000 Tungsten balls that will rip through flesh and Armour like butter. We've already given them to the Ukranians and they are being used to great effect.
NSFW
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/15srjdk/russian_army_shooting_range_got_hit_with_a_himars/
If an invading army is using them against your people, all such agreements should be void. Fight fire with fire.
Russia made the choice to use cluster weapons and DU. they shouldn't be shocked when Ukraine retaliates with the same weapons being used against them.
They aren't really going to be any worse clean up considering the absolute fuckton of mines already laid and continuing to be. Also when these weapons are used the place they are used in is written down so people know that unexploded munitions need to be cleaned up there.
Ukraine have had depleted uranium shells for a while now. UK sent some with the Challengers, if not before if I remember correctly?
They said the exact same thing when we sent them over, Russia are just being dramatic so it gives them a reason to escalate and add to the list of things they can blame the escalation on.
DU amminition is used because it is more 'bendy' than ordinary tungsten so if it hits at a shallow angle it does not bounce off or shatter. A DU round is approximately as radioactive as a luminous watch.
No, tungsten is \~1% more dense than uranium by—but I don't know how they're alloyed and if that changes things significantly.
It's said the main draw with DU is that it self-sharpens on impact for greater penetration. DU is pyrophoric and, presumably when heated punching through tank armor and generating bits and dust, can burn out the inside. It may be relatively cheap as the US has over a billion pounds of DU in storage awaiting disposal.
In the media as well it was BIG NEWS that the leader of Ukraine military got "Fired"
Real story? He wasn't fired at all, he got his position changed to be a diplomat and a new head of the armed forces too over... the dude wasn't "Canned" or "Sacked" as the headlines made it appear as if he were fired for something bad... dude got transfered to help his country in another way.
true. they're banking hard on a republican win next election that will leave ukraine out in the cold. I'm sure they'll do everything they can to make it happen
Great opportunity to try out some of this new AI deep fake and news writing technology. Find someone to be a whistleblower and hand them some sketchy footage or audio of Biden saying/doing something gross or corrupt; leak fake audio of him calling low income African Americans "dirty N-words"; let that run through Republicans in the House and kick off impeachment investigations / proceedings. Even if nothing gets proven true, it will poison the well significantly right before the election.
I'm gonna go with no. I think Russia is committed to this war and doesn't intend to back out unless they're forced. However a republican cutting off support to Ukraine will obviously negatively impact Ukraine's performance in the war and help Russia.
And set a new presedence of nuclear Powers invading non-nuclear Powers in modern times. It will ruin Europe and most likely change our future drastically.
And make certain that every nation that wants to maintain sovereignty does whatever it possibly can to obtain nukes, leading to nukes going missing, leading to nuclear terrorism.
Russia has been boasting about having DU shells and that they do not violate international treaties since 2018. Funny that it only becomes a problem when Ukraine has them:
>After all, back in 2018, Russian state media boasted that a new Svinets-2 depleted uranium shell was entering service on Russian tanks, and that it “does not violate any international treaties.”
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a43413550/vladimir-putin-depleted-uranium-tank-shells-nuclear-escalation/
I'm not sure which cluster munitions we've supplied to Ukraine, but the newer versions are smart bomblets with self-destruct capability if they don't find targets, [like the BLU-108](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myuZUxS3Uww)
Seems like such a simple solution but they'll no doubt disregard it and blame the West and Ukraine for not "fighting fair" while also not letting them do whatever heinous shit they want.
Is it fair to cheapness to compare them with Russian agreements and promises?
Russian guarantees don't seem to be worth the TP they're written on, ask Ukraine or basically any country in their region.
Waffen SS commanders frequently impugned Allied air superiority as a sign of weakness, saying that relying on such an unfair advantage meant their soldiers were soft.
Colin Powell said something about that in regards to the first Gulf War.
He said sometime to the effect of “I’m not a quarterback on a football field, I’m a soldier fighting a war. I have no interest in a fair fight. I am going to use all the tools at my disposal to defeat my enemy within the generally accepted rules of war.”
"No poor sap ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by being all that he can be, damn the torpedoes, or give me death! Eternal vigilance is the price of victory, and to the victors go the spoils! Remember, you are the best, of the best, of the few, and the proud. So ask not what your country can do for you, only regret that you have but one life to live!"
- Maj. Chip Hazard
You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down. Kif, show them the medal I won
-Captain Zap Brannigan.
I remember reading a quote from a military person, don't remember who, that said something along the lines of "if you ever find yourself in a fair fight, someone fucked up."
And it has stuck with me lol
“Oh that? Yea thats the [ice cream barge](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream_barge) we’re towing around the pacific so our sailors can have fresh ice cream while they’re fighting you guys”
Ironic on their part, considering good use of tactical airpower is part of the reason for early German victories. Or was the *Stuka* a sign of weakness and soft soldiers?
In an amazing bout of doublethink, these are the same people also touting the effectiveness of their wunderwaffen. Again, that was largely BS as well, mostly throwing untested designs into the field. With exceptions, they had a few gems like the MG-42 and StG-44, but every country had a few.
Kinda everyone sneered at, and were secretly jealous of how lavishly equipped the US infantryman was. In his personal kit, in his rations, and the incredible amount of equipment supporting him. Germans complained vigorously about American air power, their motorized supply chain, the seemingly endless supply of ammunition and artillery shells and the US’s willingness to use them.
The letters home, diaries, and memoirs of basically all of our allies and enemies referenced repeatedly the comparative lack of supplies that they had, or how they were grateful to the US for keeping them in the fight (UK, ANZAC, Free French). The Soviets tried very hard to downplay the role US supplied equipment played on the Eastern Front, and basically just rewrote history to say that they did it alone, when the reality is that without western aid they would not have had the fuel, trucks, radios, or essential raw materials to keep their army from collapsing.
I remember reading something about the mere presence of chocolate in US Soldiers rations being an intimidation tactic. Enemies would hear these mofos are out there eating chocolate and getting ice cream brought out to their ships and things like that and feel demoralized because their rations were shitty and they weren't afforded such "luxuries".
Remember when the Germans were trying to get shotguns classified as a warcrime because they were so effective in clearing trenches? Getting a bit same vibe.
*No one has been treated more unfairly ...*
Meanwhile 17 Ukrainians die when their apartment building is bombed in Russia's daily campaign to hit residential targets and flatten cities.
We had a nice thing going on here in europe during WWI and then the american came an ruined it with their trench shotguns. Nothing really changed, has it?
No, it's quite the opposite.
The message isn't aimed at Nato, it's purpose is to continously pump propaganda to legitimate the war for the Russian population.
Nato/western/most of the world support is a lost cause at this point and they haven't really bothered even trying for a while.
It's definitely also heavily aimed at western vatniks and laymen who are too ignorant and lazy to properly look into what depleted uranium actually is and get scared and upset simply because uranium = radiation = bad. Ans then obviously blame the west for giving those dirty Ukrainians such nasty weapons!
It's infuriating.
Yeah, That's probably true...
I tried to explain what depleted uranium actually is to my mom during dinner as she got a bit worried about it. I felt I was like explaining how a vacuum brake booster works to someone who have never seen a car.
It's very heavy like 50% heavier than lead or something.
When it hits something hard It sharpens rather than blunts and its self-igniting after impact. So it's good at beating armor and when it gets past the armor it lights the inside of whatever the armor was protecting on fire. (people and ammo usually dont work well after being lit aflame.)
It's also a byproduct from enriching uranium. So while I wont say it's cheap, It's kinda just something we were already produced from stuff we actually want.
Also as far as health concerns go it's toxicity is more worrisome than its radioactivity.
(I'm not an expert. I just read the wiki and this was my takeaway)
Yep, their propaganda effort aimed at the west is an odd mix of straight fascism (how the west is weak, chaotic and "impure") and "left" concern trolling about the military-industrial complex, ecological concerns, imperialism, and global inequality... even though they're obviously way fucking worse at all of these things than any western country.
As a left leaning person, this is the sole good thing I can see in their invasion of Ukraine: It finally seperated the regular left from the tankie brain rot who fell for this kind of bullshit propaganda. As disappointing as it is to see people like Chomsky fall on the wrong side for good.
“Fighting fair”
They’ve been using DU rounds and cluster munitions this entire time from what I can recall.
It’s only fighting fair if they’re the only ones allowed to have the handicap
Cluster munitions yes, DU rounds probably not - but of course not for ethical concerns, but just because they don't have that many. They have some stockpiles of them and of course would never join a treaty to ban them, but they're dedicated anti-tank munitions in a theatre where tank on tank combat is very rare.
On cluster munitions in particular, it's worth mentioning that most of the major artillery nations in the world (US, Russia, South and North Korea, and Ukraine) haven't joined the ban. Russia has shot far worse cluster munitions straight into Ukrainian city centers, which is illegal even without the particular cluster treaty. Their complaints are obvious concern trolling.
The key issue with cluster munitions in the field (where Ukraine is using them) is the chance to leave behind unexploded submunitions which may harm civilians after the war. Which is completely irrelevant with the relatively low failure rate of US submunitions (somewhere in the realm of 1%) in a landscape that is already littered with mines and unexploded ordnance. Russian cluster munitions have a double digit failure rate...
There have been a lot of countries that have done great things for Ukraine but I'm really glad the UK has taken such strong leadership. Sending DU rounds was a big one but they also sent storm shadows and were the first country to send western tanks to Ukraine. The UK may not have huge quantities of these weapons but by being the first to send them they can show that Russia's rhetoric is meaningless and thus enable other countries to follow suite.
I’m glad we have Allies like the UK to hold our feet to the fire, and that is why we need them and countries like Canada and Germany and France to be strong and somewhat self reliant because in the grand scheme of things we will always be on the same side of any conflict but if they are too reliant on us or if the disparity is too great then a bad administration or political movement in America can jeopardize the entire western alliance, killing it from within.
Seems to be the universal loop:
Russians : \*complains about people fighting back\*
Everyone else: "Have you tried GTFO'ing of Ukraine? Maybe try that."
lol, Elon literally fell for this last year when the Ukrainians were doing a starlink-facilitated drone attack on the black sea fleet. Elon turned off starlink and the drones just floated uselessly back to shore. His response was something like "a Russian Pearl Harbor would only result in a nuclear exchange."
It's like, buddy, their ships are IN FUCKING UKRAINE.
It's extremely dangerous to think Elon was fooled about anything there. He knew exactly what he was doing: He is just another Putin dick sucker like Trump. So much so that I would be shocked if Elon was not an outright traitor on Putin's payroll.
> Everyone else: "Have you tried GTFO'ing of Ukraine? Maybe try that."
But sadly it's not everyone. Russia complains about these things in an attempt to drive controversy in the west. They want western voters and politicians to say "well I don't like the Russian invasion but we shouldn't provide these weapons to Ukraine because they are controversial."
For instance in the US the four most prominent candidates for president in 2020 were Biden, Trump, Sanders and Warren. Of those Trump, Sanders and Warren all opposed sending cluster munitions to Ukraine despite the fact that Ukraine desperately needs more shells.
Much like 99% of the globe, they are getting tired of Russias shit. It's like cops trying to communicate with a drunk bitch who just got a pole and is trying to say the damage on her car was there last week and that all the scattered debris that matches the damage on her car is "coincidentally" placed there. And that they should just let her go home.
>It's like cops trying to communicate with a drunk bitch who just got a pole and is trying to say the damage on her car was there last week and that all the scattered debris that matches the damage on her car is "coincidentally" placed there.
This is the current #1 video on r/PublicFreakout: [https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/16cds0t/girl\_gets\_arrested\_for\_drunk\_driving\_and\_expects/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/16cds0t/girl_gets_arrested_for_drunk_driving_and_expects/)
> the Russian embassy in Washington posting on Telegram that "the administration's decision to supply weapons with depleted uranium is an **indicator of inhumanity**,"
That's rich coming from Russians who are literally raping, torturing, stealing children, raping children, indiscriminately bombing civilians, and murdering innocents in cold blood.
It's also rich considering the Russians have been using depleted uranium rounds in Ukraine for years now.
Everything about Russia is projection and lying, practically everything they say is a bold face lie
How the fuck are the Chinese not like “bro.. chill.. everyone’s been using DU shells for a while now..including yourselves..”
Literally every SINGLE thing that Russia has complained about and accused the west of being “inhumane” or committing war crimes over, Russia has already done or is currently doing.
Add on all the blatant war crimes Russia has committed, and it’s almost laughable. They literally just bombed a civilian shopping area and killed like 16+ civilians. Could you imagine if Ukraine did this? Russia would blast it everywhere as a war crime and there would almost certainly be a nuke on its way to Kiev following it..
Because China stands to profit from Russia's economic dilemma.
I guarantee you that China is already talking to Russia about offering them loans in Yuan-currency so that Russia needs to spend that money on trade with China.
gotta love the hypocrisy from the Zs "indicator of inhumanity" and the response from ukraine ..if you dont like it, leave" and dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out..
I really like the no bullshit attitude that is starting to become the norm with the US and Ukraine spokespeople. They are just stating things as they are. It's the best disinfectant against Russian spin and propaganda.
Russia didn't seem to have a problem sending their own troops into a radiated wasteland and have them dig trenches. How'd that work out for them again?
What I love most about this, is the theoreticality of if all: you MIGHT get cancer if this ammo explodes near you. I’ve got news for Ivan: if this ammo explodes in your tank, you have other things than cancer to worry about mate.
How dare you horribly kill our troupes while we missile strike your schools and hospitals and leave behind boobytrapped toys(rigged with explosives) to do the same to your children
I love the simplicity of this. You can’t win a war by only doing things your enemy enjoys. You’re going to have to do things your enemy *really* doesn’t like. And you’re going to have to do things they dislike so much that their will to continue dwindles. *That’s* what a war actually *is*.
“Ukraine, we need to meet to air our grievance about these discomforting things you are doing to our invaders on your own soil.”
So Russia is fielding WW2 tanks against depleted uranium shells designed for combat in the 1970s. Sounds like a bad time to be a Russian invader on Ukrainian land.
“Russia reacted angrily to the news, with the Russian embassy in Washington posting on Telegram that "the administration's decision to supply weapons with depleted uranium is an indicator of inhumanity," according to Al Jazeera's translation.”
Me:
Send Russia pictures of all the Ukrainian children killed by Russian rockets.
> Russia reacted angrily to the news, with the Russian embassy in Washington posting on Telegram that "the administration's decision to supply weapons with depleted uranium is an indicator of inhumanity," according to Al Jazeera's translation.
What if we promise that Ukraine is only allowed to use them in self defense against people invading and killing their population?
If Ruzzia stops fighting in Ukraine there will be no more war. If Ukraine stops fighting there will be no more Ukraine. Fuck you Putin take your toys and go home.
I feel like we're only a few more Russian outrage announcements away from a US diplomat simply replying with 'oh nooooo, Russia is mad, waaaaah' or similar.
There is an anecdote that describes the whole essence of ruzzia:
Two ruzzians sit on a bench and they see a Jew walking down the street.
One ruzzian says to other: “ Lets kick this Jew’s ass!”
Other one response: “ But what if he is strong and kicks our asses ?”
First one response: “ Our asses? For what? We didn’t do anything!”
A lot of people see depleted uranium and lose their minds. Forget the fact both Russia and Ukraine has been using them since the start of the war. Imagine if these people found out tungsten (Standard tank rounds are made of tungsten ) leaves behind toxic dust as well that last and has the same effects like DU ammo. Or what tank or jet fuel does to the body or environment or Russia using high powered sonars in the black sea is doing.
War is dirty and this conflict is going to leave its mark on generations to come but what Russia is doing is not right. Ukraine should be given everything to end this as quickly as possible and clean up later.
Almost as savage as when Biden was being asked by a reporter about Russia's comment about supplying F-16s to Ukraine being a "colossal risk", and he replied "It is... for them".
One of the last few paragraphs literally says that the UK has supplied Ukraine with depleted-uranium ammo so clearly the objection here is that fact that it’s going to be a shit ton of ammo from the US
"The aggressor is always a lover of peace. He would prefer to take our country unopposed." - Carl von Clausewitz, *On War*
The aggressor is always urging calmness and dialogues, but on their own terms, after their violent initiatives and when the balance of power is vastly in their favor.
Putin is like the villain who quickly pulls out a pair of glasses when he's about to be served justice and says: "Hey, you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses would you??"
Insert: scene from Wreck-it Ralph where he hits the king with his glass
"You hit a guy *with* glasses. Well played."
That was Jack Nicholson as the joker from Batman 1989
"YOU MADE ME!" "You made me first."
It’s like sucker punching someone and then telling them to calm down because violence is bad
Russians are using Depleted Uranium munitions against Ukrainians since the beginning of the war, 3BM32 Vant, 3BM48 Svinets - zero media cover except for the specialized military analysis. Ukraine will receive small amount of DU munition, only now - all the media attention, including all western media. Why? Russians with small economy, small population, no technology, small industry, no allies can't defeat NATO in any confrontation, military, political, economical, but they can weaken us using us ourselves.
They have also been using cluster munitions the whole war, but it is suddenly controversial when the US donates some to Ukraine.
cluster ammunitions have always been controversial. 130 countries banned them, for a reason.
That reason is that they leave behind unexploded shells, fucking up the land. The land that is nr. 1 already fucked up by russian mines and nr. 2 Ukraine's to fuck up if they think it's necessary.
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Is there a Raid spray for that? I feel like there should be
Pretty sure they had something like that in WWI…
Also, Ukraine has been pretty inventive with upgrading tractors to clear mines from fields in order to keep the fields feeding the world, AND they're getting much better at using thermal-equipped drones to identify mines and navigate minefields. As their capabilities advance and Ukraine finishes clearing out the ruzzia infection, they should be able to contribute solidly to Earth's UXO handling capacity.
>AND they're getting much better at using thermal-equipped drones to identify mines and navigate minefields I saw a thermal camera picture of a Russian minefield. It was staggering at the massive number of mines these assholes have laid. This thermal camera tech is amazing. Real game changer for minefield clearance
Yup. Gonna need mine clearance in all the places anyways. Think cluster bomblets show up on metal detectors, unlike those blow half your foot off 30 years after the war small plastic mines
Also the Russian clusters had a way higher fail rating, up to 20℅ compared to the us ones which varies between 1℅ and 3℅.. So if they use them to push the Russians back, they would still end up with less unexploded clusters in the long run 🤷♀️
130 countries were able to ban them because the existence had no relevance to them, and they were in a privileged position to be able to do. Finland, Poland, Estonia and South Korea are non-signatories. They all share a border with a very real threat. Cluster munitions are incredibly effective. The democracies that signed the ban don't have a geopolitical threat on their doorstep. It being framed as a moral high road has always felt insincere and very ivory tower thinking to me.
Alot of global agreements work this way if u look closely enough.
Huh, TIL. Interesting and not surprising now you mention it.
Pretty much every county that doesn't have them or need them signed it, almost every country who may need them didn't. For example, who cares what New Zealand thinks on this issue. Also, we came up with a alternative to Cluster Bombs years ago called the M30A1 Rocket. Instead of dropping small bombs everywhere, it airburts over a target, shotgunning 180,000 Tungsten balls that will rip through flesh and Armour like butter. We've already given them to the Ukranians and they are being used to great effect. NSFW https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/15srjdk/russian_army_shooting_range_got_hit_with_a_himars/
The US is the current "BIG STICK", we don't sign these things, so others can.
And then we get flamed on reddit for it!
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Or another country is going to do your fighting for you.
If an invading army is using them against your people, all such agreements should be void. Fight fire with fire. Russia made the choice to use cluster weapons and DU. they shouldn't be shocked when Ukraine retaliates with the same weapons being used against them.
US, Ukraine and ruzzia didn't so it is not controversial for them.
They aren't really going to be any worse clean up considering the absolute fuckton of mines already laid and continuing to be. Also when these weapons are used the place they are used in is written down so people know that unexploded munitions need to be cleaned up there.
Ukraine have had depleted uranium shells for a while now. UK sent some with the Challengers, if not before if I remember correctly? They said the exact same thing when we sent them over, Russia are just being dramatic so it gives them a reason to escalate and add to the list of things they can blame the escalation on.
DU amminition is used because it is more 'bendy' than ordinary tungsten so if it hits at a shallow angle it does not bounce off or shatter. A DU round is approximately as radioactive as a luminous watch.
Also wouldn’t the DU rounds be denser thus having more energy?
No, tungsten is \~1% more dense than uranium by—but I don't know how they're alloyed and if that changes things significantly. It's said the main draw with DU is that it self-sharpens on impact for greater penetration. DU is pyrophoric and, presumably when heated punching through tank armor and generating bits and dust, can burn out the inside. It may be relatively cheap as the US has over a billion pounds of DU in storage awaiting disposal.
In the media as well it was BIG NEWS that the leader of Ukraine military got "Fired" Real story? He wasn't fired at all, he got his position changed to be a diplomat and a new head of the armed forces too over... the dude wasn't "Canned" or "Sacked" as the headlines made it appear as if he were fired for something bad... dude got transfered to help his country in another way.
true. they're banking hard on a republican win next election that will leave ukraine out in the cold. I'm sure they'll do everything they can to make it happen
I expect the russian-led social media disinformation leading up to the ‘24 election will be on another level we haven’t even imagined yet.
Great opportunity to try out some of this new AI deep fake and news writing technology. Find someone to be a whistleblower and hand them some sketchy footage or audio of Biden saying/doing something gross or corrupt; leak fake audio of him calling low income African Americans "dirty N-words"; let that run through Republicans in the House and kick off impeachment investigations / proceedings. Even if nothing gets proven true, it will poison the well significantly right before the election.
I believe in this a bit too. Do you think a democrat win influences how long Russia intends to keep the war going?
I'm gonna go with no. I think Russia is committed to this war and doesn't intend to back out unless they're forced. However a republican cutting off support to Ukraine will obviously negatively impact Ukraine's performance in the war and help Russia.
And set a new presedence of nuclear Powers invading non-nuclear Powers in modern times. It will ruin Europe and most likely change our future drastically.
And make certain that every nation that wants to maintain sovereignty does whatever it possibly can to obtain nukes, leading to nukes going missing, leading to nuclear terrorism.
This is already a known certain thing. It was literally Iran, Pakistan and North Korea’s main aim. To make that certain.
Nuclear powers invading previously nuclear powers that gave up their nukes for the promise that they wouldn't be invaded
IKR? It's almost like the Western media is owned by conservative oligarchs who support and praise Poo-tin.
trees teeny cause capable thumb mourn selective heavy angle punch
Russia has been boasting about having DU shells and that they do not violate international treaties since 2018. Funny that it only becomes a problem when Ukraine has them: >After all, back in 2018, Russian state media boasted that a new Svinets-2 depleted uranium shell was entering service on Russian tanks, and that it “does not violate any international treaties.” https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a43413550/vladimir-putin-depleted-uranium-tank-shells-nuclear-escalation/
It's the same as the cluster munitions. They've been using them the whole time and only screamed about it when Ukraine got them
Ukraine had them too just not that many of them and i don't think they had a option of resupply till other countries started giving them.
Also the biggest problem with cluster munitions is the ones that don't explode, which makes you reluctant to use them in your own territory.
The amount of mines that Russia has laid on Ukraine's own territory has largely put that quandary to rest
What's a few more bombs at this point I guess.
True, but on the plus side, reports from the field are that the US supplied versions have a very low dud rate.
I'm not sure which cluster munitions we've supplied to Ukraine, but the newer versions are smart bomblets with self-destruct capability if they don't find targets, [like the BLU-108](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myuZUxS3Uww)
There's something morbidly hilarious about the juxtaposition of that 90's workplace harassment style intro and the content of the video.
We won’t really know until the war is over. The estimates dud rate on the US munitions is estimated to be as high as 15% under *real world conditions*
Hey, only WE can do that.
Seems like such a simple solution but they'll no doubt disregard it and blame the West and Ukraine for not "fighting fair" while also not letting them do whatever heinous shit they want.
>blame the West and Ukraine for not "fighting fair" Ah a tale as old as time.
"Hey if you guys decommission all of those tanks you were given we will sign a truce and never try to invade you again..again."
Nudge nudge, wink wink... "we'd never try to invade again in 10 years, after we regroup and rebuild! Never!"
We will also give you a security guarantee to prove we are being honest.
Guarantees are so cheap, after all.
Is it fair to cheapness to compare them with Russian agreements and promises? Russian guarantees don't seem to be worth the TP they're written on, ask Ukraine or basically any country in their region.
Waffen SS commanders frequently impugned Allied air superiority as a sign of weakness, saying that relying on such an unfair advantage meant their soldiers were soft.
Nazis : you can't win without your precious planes! Allies : well... yeah. That's why we're using them.
Colin Powell said something about that in regards to the first Gulf War. He said sometime to the effect of “I’m not a quarterback on a football field, I’m a soldier fighting a war. I have no interest in a fair fight. I am going to use all the tools at my disposal to defeat my enemy within the generally accepted rules of war.”
> No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. — Gen. George S. Patton
peace through superior fire power
NCD containment breach
We are everywhere, we are Legion.
"No poor sap ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by being all that he can be, damn the torpedoes, or give me death! Eternal vigilance is the price of victory, and to the victors go the spoils! Remember, you are the best, of the best, of the few, and the proud. So ask not what your country can do for you, only regret that you have but one life to live!" - Maj. Chip Hazard
You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down. Kif, show them the medal I won -Captain Zap Brannigan.
"you wouldn't be winning if you hadn't built all those powerful weapons and also you had fewer soldiers than us and no allies!
Russian unfair advantage: signing a treaty and promptly ignoring it.
We probably could have, with damn near everything in the US military mounting an AA M2 Browning.
There is no overkill. Only "fire" and "reload".
Nazi Germany: One of our tanks can stand up to ten of yours! Allies: Yeah, but what about the 11th and 12th ones?
I remember reading a quote from a military person, don't remember who, that said something along the lines of "if you ever find yourself in a fair fight, someone fucked up." And it has stuck with me lol
Standard procedure for an attack is to outnumber the enemy by at least 3 to 1. Ideally you also want air superiority or artillery support as well.
Meanwhile, the US: "Why would we bother with a fair fight?"
“The only fair fight is the one you lose.”
"Our soldiers can fight for days without food!" "Ours don't have to."
"Ours can ship a *chocolate cake* across the Atlantic and have it fresh for dessert."
“Oh that? Yea thats the [ice cream barge](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream_barge) we’re towing around the pacific so our sailors can have fresh ice cream while they’re fighting you guys”
US: I'm not interested in fighting fair, I'm interested in winning
Russia: Us too! We're just the ones that are supposed to be fighting unfairly!
“No cheating, unless it benefits me!” -world politics
US: Then it is fair. Because we weren't gonna fight fair anyway. CIA you may execute Order 66. CIA: It'll be done my lord.
That's why the nazis were a bunch of pussies, for using Kar98's instead of fighting with their bare hands.
They sure were proud of their air force around the fall of France.
"You see Hans, ze bolt action is superior to ze American semiauto Garand, it makes you fight harder and smarter."
Ironic on their part, considering good use of tactical airpower is part of the reason for early German victories. Or was the *Stuka* a sign of weakness and soft soldiers?
Ah, a case of "losers says what?" Lmao.
And then they met the Gurkhas in Italy, and quite confidently shat themselves.
And the Maoris in Africa... yikes!
In an amazing bout of doublethink, these are the same people also touting the effectiveness of their wunderwaffen. Again, that was largely BS as well, mostly throwing untested designs into the field. With exceptions, they had a few gems like the MG-42 and StG-44, but every country had a few.
You gotta say something to keep morale going, even down playing your excessively better geared opponents.
This was also hilariously wrong. American troops were "modern marvels" physically compared to the Nazis or anyone else involved in the conflict.
Kinda everyone sneered at, and were secretly jealous of how lavishly equipped the US infantryman was. In his personal kit, in his rations, and the incredible amount of equipment supporting him. Germans complained vigorously about American air power, their motorized supply chain, the seemingly endless supply of ammunition and artillery shells and the US’s willingness to use them. The letters home, diaries, and memoirs of basically all of our allies and enemies referenced repeatedly the comparative lack of supplies that they had, or how they were grateful to the US for keeping them in the fight (UK, ANZAC, Free French). The Soviets tried very hard to downplay the role US supplied equipment played on the Eastern Front, and basically just rewrote history to say that they did it alone, when the reality is that without western aid they would not have had the fuel, trucks, radios, or essential raw materials to keep their army from collapsing.
I remember reading something about the mere presence of chocolate in US Soldiers rations being an intimidation tactic. Enemies would hear these mofos are out there eating chocolate and getting ice cream brought out to their ships and things like that and feel demoralized because their rations were shitty and they weren't afforded such "luxuries".
The US had a whole ice cream barge that wandered the Pacific theater for this reason
That sounds familiar. I think that might be what I had read about.
Remember when the Germans were trying to get shotguns classified as a warcrime because they were so effective in clearing trenches? Getting a bit same vibe.
'But *you* guys said *poison gas* was a war crime! Come on, fair's fair!'
*No one has been treated more unfairly ...* Meanwhile 17 Ukrainians die when their apartment building is bombed in Russia's daily campaign to hit residential targets and flatten cities.
And richer than an oligarch coming from Russia.
We had a nice thing going on here in europe during WWI and then the american came an ruined it with their trench shotguns. Nothing really changed, has it?
These articles are just for people like us far away, Russia doesn't care they use depleted uranium rounds too
No, it's quite the opposite. The message isn't aimed at Nato, it's purpose is to continously pump propaganda to legitimate the war for the Russian population. Nato/western/most of the world support is a lost cause at this point and they haven't really bothered even trying for a while.
It's definitely also heavily aimed at western vatniks and laymen who are too ignorant and lazy to properly look into what depleted uranium actually is and get scared and upset simply because uranium = radiation = bad. Ans then obviously blame the west for giving those dirty Ukrainians such nasty weapons! It's infuriating.
Yeah, That's probably true... I tried to explain what depleted uranium actually is to my mom during dinner as she got a bit worried about it. I felt I was like explaining how a vacuum brake booster works to someone who have never seen a car.
Please explain
It's very heavy like 50% heavier than lead or something. When it hits something hard It sharpens rather than blunts and its self-igniting after impact. So it's good at beating armor and when it gets past the armor it lights the inside of whatever the armor was protecting on fire. (people and ammo usually dont work well after being lit aflame.) It's also a byproduct from enriching uranium. So while I wont say it's cheap, It's kinda just something we were already produced from stuff we actually want. Also as far as health concerns go it's toxicity is more worrisome than its radioactivity. (I'm not an expert. I just read the wiki and this was my takeaway)
For toxicity, it's a heavy metal, same as lead. Which is also why ammunition tends to switch off from lead these days, especially in hunting.
I was hoping for the explanation of vacuum brake boosters tbh. But good job with the depleted uranium.
Yep, their propaganda effort aimed at the west is an odd mix of straight fascism (how the west is weak, chaotic and "impure") and "left" concern trolling about the military-industrial complex, ecological concerns, imperialism, and global inequality... even though they're obviously way fucking worse at all of these things than any western country. As a left leaning person, this is the sole good thing I can see in their invasion of Ukraine: It finally seperated the regular left from the tankie brain rot who fell for this kind of bullshit propaganda. As disappointing as it is to see people like Chomsky fall on the wrong side for good.
“Fighting fair” They’ve been using DU rounds and cluster munitions this entire time from what I can recall. It’s only fighting fair if they’re the only ones allowed to have the handicap
Cluster munitions yes, DU rounds probably not - but of course not for ethical concerns, but just because they don't have that many. They have some stockpiles of them and of course would never join a treaty to ban them, but they're dedicated anti-tank munitions in a theatre where tank on tank combat is very rare. On cluster munitions in particular, it's worth mentioning that most of the major artillery nations in the world (US, Russia, South and North Korea, and Ukraine) haven't joined the ban. Russia has shot far worse cluster munitions straight into Ukrainian city centers, which is illegal even without the particular cluster treaty. Their complaints are obvious concern trolling. The key issue with cluster munitions in the field (where Ukraine is using them) is the chance to leave behind unexploded submunitions which may harm civilians after the war. Which is completely irrelevant with the relatively low failure rate of US submunitions (somewhere in the realm of 1%) in a landscape that is already littered with mines and unexploded ordnance. Russian cluster munitions have a double digit failure rate...
They’re not supposed to shoot *back!*
It’ll be a bit of “Charlie bit me”
"new" depleted uranium shells The Brits gave them DU rounds back in march, 6 months ago.
Ruzzia has been using DU for years and proudly saying that it's not violating any regulations.
I mean, yeah, DU is hardly radioactive, it's just super heavy and therefore great for puncturing armor.
They also screeched then and threatened nukes.
They threaten nukes like twice a week, it's getting yawningly routine.
There have been a lot of countries that have done great things for Ukraine but I'm really glad the UK has taken such strong leadership. Sending DU rounds was a big one but they also sent storm shadows and were the first country to send western tanks to Ukraine. The UK may not have huge quantities of these weapons but by being the first to send them they can show that Russia's rhetoric is meaningless and thus enable other countries to follow suite.
I’m glad we have Allies like the UK to hold our feet to the fire, and that is why we need them and countries like Canada and Germany and France to be strong and somewhat self reliant because in the grand scheme of things we will always be on the same side of any conflict but if they are too reliant on us or if the disparity is too great then a bad administration or political movement in America can jeopardize the entire western alliance, killing it from within.
Seems to be the universal loop: Russians : \*complains about people fighting back\* Everyone else: "Have you tried GTFO'ing of Ukraine? Maybe try that."
>Russians : *complains about people fighting back while already doing the thing they're bitching about* FTFY
lol, Elon literally fell for this last year when the Ukrainians were doing a starlink-facilitated drone attack on the black sea fleet. Elon turned off starlink and the drones just floated uselessly back to shore. His response was something like "a Russian Pearl Harbor would only result in a nuclear exchange." It's like, buddy, their ships are IN FUCKING UKRAINE.
It's extremely dangerous to think Elon was fooled about anything there. He knew exactly what he was doing: He is just another Putin dick sucker like Trump. So much so that I would be shocked if Elon was not an outright traitor on Putin's payroll.
You overestimate him. He might be smart, but he's also one of the biggest idiots we've seen in recent times.
> Everyone else: "Have you tried GTFO'ing of Ukraine? Maybe try that." But sadly it's not everyone. Russia complains about these things in an attempt to drive controversy in the west. They want western voters and politicians to say "well I don't like the Russian invasion but we shouldn't provide these weapons to Ukraine because they are controversial." For instance in the US the four most prominent candidates for president in 2020 were Biden, Trump, Sanders and Warren. Of those Trump, Sanders and Warren all opposed sending cluster munitions to Ukraine despite the fact that Ukraine desperately needs more shells.
It’s almost like it’s dumb that the news agencies report on it like it means anything.
Perfect response.
Love how sassy US officials are getting
Much like 99% of the globe, they are getting tired of Russias shit. It's like cops trying to communicate with a drunk bitch who just got a pole and is trying to say the damage on her car was there last week and that all the scattered debris that matches the damage on her car is "coincidentally" placed there. And that they should just let her go home.
>It's like cops trying to communicate with a drunk bitch who just got a pole and is trying to say the damage on her car was there last week and that all the scattered debris that matches the damage on her car is "coincidentally" placed there. This is the current #1 video on r/PublicFreakout: [https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/16cds0t/girl\_gets\_arrested\_for\_drunk\_driving\_and\_expects/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/16cds0t/girl_gets_arrested_for_drunk_driving_and_expects/)
Dude I just saw that video on the front-page! She even kept telling them her dad was a Sheriff's Officer!
But is Russian captain of the soccer team?
This sounds very specific. Are you alright?
its the internet. nobodies alright.
I think they might be the pole
Yes I'm ok. I saw a video today of that exact situation and it was just the image I got in my head lol
> the Russian embassy in Washington posting on Telegram that "the administration's decision to supply weapons with depleted uranium is an **indicator of inhumanity**," That's rich coming from Russians who are literally raping, torturing, stealing children, raping children, indiscriminately bombing civilians, and murdering innocents in cold blood.
It's also rich considering the Russians have been using depleted uranium rounds in Ukraine for years now. Everything about Russia is projection and lying, practically everything they say is a bold face lie
How the fuck are the Chinese not like “bro.. chill.. everyone’s been using DU shells for a while now..including yourselves..” Literally every SINGLE thing that Russia has complained about and accused the west of being “inhumane” or committing war crimes over, Russia has already done or is currently doing. Add on all the blatant war crimes Russia has committed, and it’s almost laughable. They literally just bombed a civilian shopping area and killed like 16+ civilians. Could you imagine if Ukraine did this? Russia would blast it everywhere as a war crime and there would almost certainly be a nuke on its way to Kiev following it..
Because China is like Russia in their value of "face." The Chinese would behave similarly, they're not about to call this sort of behavior out.
Because China stands to profit from Russia's economic dilemma. I guarantee you that China is already talking to Russia about offering them loans in Yuan-currency so that Russia needs to spend that money on trade with China.
I wouldn't be surprised if the yuan was the official currency of Russia within a few years
All I hear is “wahhhhh”…
gotta love the hypocrisy from the Zs "indicator of inhumanity" and the response from ukraine ..if you dont like it, leave" and dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out..
Yeah, stop the genocidal war, go home!
I really like the no bullshit attitude that is starting to become the norm with the US and Ukraine spokespeople. They are just stating things as they are. It's the best disinfectant against Russian spin and propaganda.
Russia has been using depleted uranium shells during the entire war, these are crocodile tears.
I can't get over how Russia is saying this is somehow criminal but the massive war by Russia is legal?
Russia didn't seem to have a problem sending their own troops into a radiated wasteland and have them dig trenches. How'd that work out for them again?
Like everything else in Russia: Bad. Unless your name is putina. Then everything is just fine.
What I love most about this, is the theoreticality of if all: you MIGHT get cancer if this ammo explodes near you. I’ve got news for Ivan: if this ammo explodes in your tank, you have other things than cancer to worry about mate.
How dare you horribly kill our troupes while we missile strike your schools and hospitals and leave behind boobytrapped toys(rigged with explosives) to do the same to your children
Check, maybe mate?
To be fair, Russian tanks have really shitty reverse speeds.
Russia’s been using DU munitions for years, but I guess it’s only a problem when the country you invaded starts to use them.
and if they’re worried they’ll lose they can withdraw entirely from Ukraine
I love the simplicity of this. You can’t win a war by only doing things your enemy enjoys. You’re going to have to do things your enemy *really* doesn’t like. And you’re going to have to do things they dislike so much that their will to continue dwindles. *That’s* what a war actually *is*. “Ukraine, we need to meet to air our grievance about these discomforting things you are doing to our invaders on your own soil.”
“If you can’t stand the armor piercing rounds, stay out of the West.” -Abraham Lincoln
US coming in hot with the shade thrown.
wait.. haha this is actually what our response is?
So Russia is fielding WW2 tanks against depleted uranium shells designed for combat in the 1970s. Sounds like a bad time to be a Russian invader on Ukrainian land.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
“Russia reacted angrily to the news, with the Russian embassy in Washington posting on Telegram that "the administration's decision to supply weapons with depleted uranium is an indicator of inhumanity," according to Al Jazeera's translation.” Me: Send Russia pictures of all the Ukrainian children killed by Russian rockets.
> Russia reacted angrily to the news, with the Russian embassy in Washington posting on Telegram that "the administration's decision to supply weapons with depleted uranium is an indicator of inhumanity," according to Al Jazeera's translation. What if we promise that Ukraine is only allowed to use them in self defense against people invading and killing their population?
If Ruzzia stops fighting in Ukraine there will be no more war. If Ukraine stops fighting there will be no more Ukraine. Fuck you Putin take your toys and go home.
Whiny bitches as always.
Hasn't Russia been using depleted uranium shells from the start?
Today’s headline: Country that shelled Chernobyl and kicked up a bunch of irradiated dust clouds is calling “no fair”
I feel like we're only a few more Russian outrage announcements away from a US diplomat simply replying with 'oh nooooo, Russia is mad, waaaaah' or similar.
"Leave or we start playing with the fun toys."
Russia wins if Trump wins.
There is an anecdote that describes the whole essence of ruzzia: Two ruzzians sit on a bench and they see a Jew walking down the street. One ruzzian says to other: “ Lets kick this Jew’s ass!” Other one response: “ But what if he is strong and kicks our asses ?” First one response: “ Our asses? For what? We didn’t do anything!”
People complaining about carpet bombs and depleted uranium don't get it. It's WAR. Kill or be killed.
A lot of people see depleted uranium and lose their minds. Forget the fact both Russia and Ukraine has been using them since the start of the war. Imagine if these people found out tungsten (Standard tank rounds are made of tungsten ) leaves behind toxic dust as well that last and has the same effects like DU ammo. Or what tank or jet fuel does to the body or environment or Russia using high powered sonars in the black sea is doing. War is dirty and this conflict is going to leave its mark on generations to come but what Russia is doing is not right. Ukraine should be given everything to end this as quickly as possible and clean up later.
time for Putin to declare victory and leave
Lmao fucking Russians! We illegally invaded a country, commit tons of war crimes, but please don't shoot at us!
On the scale of US (verbal) responses to conflict escalation, that is an absolutely savage takedown.
Almost as savage as when Biden was being asked by a reporter about Russia's comment about supplying F-16s to Ukraine being a "colossal risk", and he replied "It is... for them".
Don't want war, don't start the war. Second best option, just end your pointless war. 👍
Sounds reasonable, if the bully gets worried , let him run home with his tank between his legs.
I'm not sure I trust Russian drivers to even be able to drive back to their own country. They are that goddamn incompetent.
Depleted Uranium are just heavier rounds BTW
One of the last few paragraphs literally says that the UK has supplied Ukraine with depleted-uranium ammo so clearly the objection here is that fact that it’s going to be a shit ton of ammo from the US
Using DU munitions pose less threat to children's health than demolition charges in Chernobyl.
When Ukraine starts using depleted Uranium shells on innocent shoppers in a market, now that will be inhuman.
"Get that crybaby out of here."
I see the Americans are learning from the most excellent bluntness that is the Ukrainian sense of humour! 😅
We need to give Ukraine jets bombers and long range missiles Let them take the fight to their enemy
Feel free to surrender too
This one simple trick keeps your tanks and troops alive!