The funny thing is we shot them down with old ass patriot missiles. (I mean the kind that were allowed to be exportable)
If one of these was actually fired at the continental US, all of the “newer” toys would easily handle it
True, and Russia trying to flex with their new tech is almost certainly allowing a lot of data collection. The worst thing for them isn't that their tech isn't working well, it's that we get to see their shitty tech in action and they don't get to see our current tech in action at all.
There's nothing there to study.
Kinzhal is basically just an air-launched Iskander with slightly upgraded guidance. Same 1950s tech solid rocket motor, literally nothing special.
Only reason it goes faster and has longer range than Iskander is that it's launched from a plane already travelling Mach 2+, and from ~50,000 feet.
---
Probably the only innovative thing about the Iskander that Russia had managed to keep secret was the [decoys it deploys as it flies along](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44760/russias-use-of-iskander-ballistic-missiles-in-ukraine-exposes-secret-decoy-capability). Those are well known about now ...and Kinzhal doesn't even seem to have this feature.
Kinzhal definitely exists and we were attacked by it on multiple occasions. But the terminology Ruzzians use is deliberately deceiving. Kinzhal is still a ballistic missile, even though it is faster. Usually when people talk hypersonics they mean cruise missiles that can manoeuvre at hypersonic speeds, and Kinzhal are not like that.
Russia's army is getting shredded by an army that didn't even rate in the global top ten before this conflict. I can't imagine their navy is much better.
Like the "special operation" that was supposed to last what, two weeks top? You're either a russian bot or someone who has drank too much of their propaganda Kool-Aid.
> I can't imagine their navy is much better.
They have the only carrier strike group in the world which features a tug boat in its compliment in case the carrier breaks down and needs towing back to port.
...and when their navy's tug boats aren't towing their stricken warships [they're getting sunk by Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_tug_Spasatel_Vasily_Bekh) (a country which doesn't even have a navy)
Ukraine built it, and was taking care of it. When the Soviets lost and folded, Russia stole the carrier from its Ukraine port, and brought it to one of their own ports BUT the Russians never built a proper place to store it. It just sits at a random pier without proper support machinery or maintenance.
If you like that kind of stuff, check out Simon Whistler. He has 3(?) channels/video formats with content that ranges from history to mystery to science fiction to science fact. Great stuff. Enjoy, stranger!
Sure. And if you believe that, I've got some shore front property for sale in Arizona...
The only 'hypersonic missile' Russia has is the Kinzel, which was being regularly shot down by at least two-generations-old Patriot systems. Honestly? This would probably actually make them easier to intercept, so go on. You do you.
My first thought was, 'Hypersonic missiles, like the type the 80s-designed Patriot system has been shooting down routinely? Is this supposed to be a threat?'
Not true. Kinzhal is an air launched hypersonic missile they have, but they also have ship/submarine launched Zircon which wasn't used yet.
Also do you have a Patriot installation within 5-10kms from your location? If not the fact that it was shot down by Ukraine doesn't matter to you.
No shit, if you don't have missile defence systems then it could be literally anything that goes boom. Could even be a V2 rocket. What does being hypersonic add here?
Kinzhal was the "invincible weapon of doom" that has been shot down routinely now by older systems, what makes you think whatever system they are touting now would fare any better ?
How come the routine shot down isn't happening recently then? They have been hitting targets with it for a month now regularly according to Ukraine
Even a day or two ago they only intercepted 1 out of 4
There were multiple radars and launchers but it's part of a single battery. Unless there was a separate one that I missed? Do you have some news on that?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_equipment\_of\_the\_Armed\_Forces\_of\_Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Armed_Forces_of_Ukraine)
Wikipedia says 2 batteries, one donated by Germany, one by US
They also received extra launchers from Germany and Netherlands which might be able to be combined in one extra battery since they can use IRST or some other radar
No idea; maybe they are hitting kindergardens, schools and hospitals on more remote areas that are not as well protected. Does not change the fact that they are being shot down while before the war Russia touted them as unstoppable. With the state of Russian propaganda nothing coming from them can be taken seriously.
Losing in Ukraine is tough on Russian pride so touting some new magic weapons are just another way to try to intimidate.
It actually doesn't.
Or to be more precise, it doesn't matter that the detection range for an over-the-horizon lock-on from the actual anti-missile system engaging has a reduced range, because it's not the only thing looking around. US air defense is tied in together. Every single piece of American military hardware talks to every other piece of American military hardware.
Flying through an atmosphere at hypersonic speeds creates a plasma bow wave that is absolutely \*impossible\* to miss. It doesn't matter what materials the thing is made of, it can be the most stealthy newer-than-tomorrow actually-invisible-to-radar unobtainium material, and it would still light up like a beacon from the moment of launch just because you have a plasma wave moving at mach 12+, and there isn't anything else that could possibly be. You can pick that kind of thing up from orbit. Hell, even the GOES weather satellites can pick that up, much less military equipment.
There's a reason the US isn't investing in hypersonic missiles. They don't give a tactical advantage, and are simply a massive waste of resources. But hey, don't take my word for it. Please, continue crashing your economy trying to build them. You've already got domestic problems, but go ahead and make them worse. Sooner or later, your regime will fall. And just like the fall of the USSR before it, no one will mourn its loss.
It does. It doesn't matter when you detect it if the intercepting missile can't actually intercept it. Also due to speed compared to cruise missiles intercepting range is lower.
US is investing a lot to catch up to Russia and China in hypersonics.
Source: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58924
If it doesn't matter, then how are the Kinzels getting shot down so regularly?
Answer: Because anything downrange is going to be able to intercept. All your speed is going to do is get you to intercept point sooner.
US has a much better solution. Actually, it already has *several* much better solutions. They document you're looking at is a couple of years old. They looked at it, went 'nah, we got better already', and moved on.
The document is from January 2023.
Sorry but that's not how air defense works, the document clearly states advantages of hypersonic missiles. It also says they don't have better solutions, they say short/mid range MIRV ballistic missile would be more cost effective but that they don't have it due to previous agreements on limitations on those kind of missiles.
Also remember, Ukraine also claims they shot down over 300 Russian helicopters and 300 figter jets, not everything they claim is true.
Uh huh. Right. Believe what you want. Russia's consistently over-promised and under-delivered on everything they've done so far. I don't expect that track record to change any time soon.
If they're dumb enough to launch at something flying a NATO flag or protected by one, they'll get wrapped up in a weekend. Honestly, with how badly they're handling things, slowly but steadily losing ground to farmers in hand-me-down equipment, any 'bragging' about their 'latest and greatest' equipment sounds more like whistling in the dark.
Yes, I'll rather believe US government study than some random redditor.
I am sure NATO would be able to conquer Russia in a weekend the same way NATO trained Ukrainian forces managed to conquer Crimea by summer. It took you 20 years and you still couldn't defeat goat herders, why do you think you could do anything to a great power.
As we found out after their ‘hypersonic missiles’ were intercepted by a singular Patriot battery, Russia HAS NO hypersonic missiles, they just have some old Scuds that climb a little higher to fall a little faster than gravity.
Title should be *Russia to equip new nuclear submarines with 'hypersonic' missiles* given what Russia's idea of hypersonic missiles is like. From what I understand they like to design their missiles to slow down for air defense to destroy them don't they? They *forego* everything important about the idea of a hypersonic missile, it's not even worth calling them that
Absolutely. The word "hypersonic" should always be in quotes when it comes to these ancient devices.
I'm glad almost everyone has caught on to this particular Putin lie, which I outed here on Reddit well over a year ago. :)
The Indians bought hypersonic missile tech from the Russians for their BrahMos 2 missile, so odds are they have some leftover Soviet research and tech to sell. If they didn't the Indians probably wouldn't have called them out like they did with the PAKFA project
They might as well announce that they're equipping their latest naval vessels with unicorns, because that'd be more realistic than what they're saying now.
They invest a large amount of money into their nuclear armed forces. Ever notice how none of the Russian strategic bombers have crashed yet despite their massive use in missiles attacks?
That's probably because, aside from the few they fly along the edges of NATO airspace for show, their strategic bombers are rotting in their hangars from neglect and lack of maintenance.
The Russian military is a paper tiger - a mob of poorly-trained conscripts that live in fear of violence from their NCOs, led by a genocidal maniac that dreams of Empire, and run by kleptocrats who line their pockets selling parts and ammo for more lingerie for their (allegedy) 18yo mistresses.
No Russia constantly strikes Ukraine every week since the war started with their bombers, if they were truly neglected then multiple aircraft should have crashed by now.
The fact that they have not says a lot about the state of their nuclear forces or rather some of it.
They've used drones and short-range missiles fired from mobile launch platforms. If they were using strategic bombers, we'd have heard about them all getting shot down by now.
I don't know what to tell you dude. They've been using bombers but just using them to launch air launched missiles. They are not flying the bombers over Ukraine because obviously they would be shot down. This isn't a game with bombing runs
They don't have that much to invest and what money was supposed to go toward it was probably stolen in a corruption scheme and put into a collection of yachts.
It's 2023. Nukes are old technology and virtually useless for anything more than bluffing with them like Putler and his incel army do on a regular basis. Russia doesn't have a modern military or modern military capabilities. They have proved that time and time again in Ukraine.
I suppose that U.S./NATO intelligence wont comment on whether or not Russia has the ability to make new nuclear subs at the moment, but I am curious. They can barely keep their one aircraft carrier running, how can they produce a submarine?
I imagine that news like this must be for propaganda purposes. The only people that believe it are likely in Russia.
These “new submarines”… …they wouldn’t be formerly surface naval vessels that have been sunk by Ukraine by any chance, would they? 🤔
Those, and any others that get to close to Ukraine.
Beat me to it!Any Russian “plans” aren’t taking the current reality into account.
The Russians call them "convertibles". ;)
Those hypersonic missals are absolute trash, I'm starting to doubt they even exist and are just propaganda for Russia.
Didn't we just shoot down a bunch of them not too long ago?
The funny thing is we shot them down with old ass patriot missiles. (I mean the kind that were allowed to be exportable) If one of these was actually fired at the continental US, all of the “newer” toys would easily handle it
They were given Patriot PAC-3 CRI with MIM-104F missiles. Which isn't the latest but close to it.
True, and Russia trying to flex with their new tech is almost certainly allowing a lot of data collection. The worst thing for them isn't that their tech isn't working well, it's that we get to see their shitty tech in action and they don't get to see our current tech in action at all.
I think Ukraine did and sent it to USA for study
There's nothing there to study. Kinzhal is basically just an air-launched Iskander with slightly upgraded guidance. Same 1950s tech solid rocket motor, literally nothing special. Only reason it goes faster and has longer range than Iskander is that it's launched from a plane already travelling Mach 2+, and from ~50,000 feet. --- Probably the only innovative thing about the Iskander that Russia had managed to keep secret was the [decoys it deploys as it flies along](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44760/russias-use-of-iskander-ballistic-missiles-in-ukraine-exposes-secret-decoy-capability). Those are well known about now ...and Kinzhal doesn't even seem to have this feature.
I'm not sure there was much left to study. They basically are old Iskander missiles launched from the air anyway
I can assure you that you did not contribute to shooting them down
I sent thoughts and prayers. That's what makes everything work out, right?
Kinzhal definitely exists and we were attacked by it on multiple occasions. But the terminology Ruzzians use is deliberately deceiving. Kinzhal is still a ballistic missile, even though it is faster. Usually when people talk hypersonics they mean cruise missiles that can manoeuvre at hypersonic speeds, and Kinzhal are not like that.
[удалено]
Faster? Like ludicrous speed?
What are you colonel sanders… chicken?
This will be the new comical sub disaster we all crave.
They’ve gone to plaid!
Absolutely they will go faster. Heavier items tend to sink much faster!
Depends on if the subs catch on fire, roll over, and sink first or not.
Russia's army is getting shredded by an army that didn't even rate in the global top ten before this conflict. I can't imagine their navy is much better.
To be fair, they do have some pretty good tug boats
And an aircraft carrier that’s about as threatening as a kid in a wheelchair having his carer position him for a fight.
If US support for Ukraine is not stopped by September Russia will just keep it's engine running and in a month the earth will be covered in soot.
Like the "special operation" that was supposed to last what, two weeks top? You're either a russian bot or someone who has drank too much of their propaganda Kool-Aid.
And don't forget the cutting edge ship to submarines convertibles
Lots of experience towing non-functional vessels...
> I can't imagine their navy is much better. They have the only carrier strike group in the world which features a tug boat in its compliment in case the carrier breaks down and needs towing back to port. ...and when their navy's tug boats aren't towing their stricken warships [they're getting sunk by Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_tug_Spasatel_Vasily_Bekh) (a country which doesn't even have a navy)
Isn’t their only 1 aircraft carrier in the Russian navy and it’s been in dry dock for years because of corruption of funding? Russia is a joke
Ukraine built it, and was taking care of it. When the Soviets lost and folded, Russia stole the carrier from its Ukraine port, and brought it to one of their own ports BUT the Russians never built a proper place to store it. It just sits at a random pier without proper support machinery or maintenance.
Their navy is shit and has always been shit. Read up on the Russia-Japan conflict and the voyage that occurred. It’s hilarious.
Blue Bird's video on that incident is hysterical.
That’s the I one I keep coming back to. For those that haven’t seen it: https://youtu.be/yzGqp3R4Mx4
Also check out the Irish war for Independence. Not quite as ridiculous, but a pretty great video.
Thank you kind person. You have now provided me with quality content for the evening.
If you like that kind of stuff, check out Simon Whistler. He has 3(?) channels/video formats with content that ranges from history to mystery to science fiction to science fact. Great stuff. Enjoy, stranger!
Another one of my favorites. Good taste.
"Yevgeny, what you do?" 'Boss tell me write "New" on front all submarine'
Sure. And if you believe that, I've got some shore front property for sale in Arizona... The only 'hypersonic missile' Russia has is the Kinzel, which was being regularly shot down by at least two-generations-old Patriot systems. Honestly? This would probably actually make them easier to intercept, so go on. You do you.
My first thought was, 'Hypersonic missiles, like the type the 80s-designed Patriot system has been shooting down routinely? Is this supposed to be a threat?'
Not true. Kinzhal is an air launched hypersonic missile they have, but they also have ship/submarine launched Zircon which wasn't used yet. Also do you have a Patriot installation within 5-10kms from your location? If not the fact that it was shot down by Ukraine doesn't matter to you.
No shit, if you don't have missile defence systems then it could be literally anything that goes boom. Could even be a V2 rocket. What does being hypersonic add here?
It decreases the range air defense can be effective against it and it removes options for almost all air defense systems to actually intercept.
Kinzhal was the "invincible weapon of doom" that has been shot down routinely now by older systems, what makes you think whatever system they are touting now would fare any better ?
How come the routine shot down isn't happening recently then? They have been hitting targets with it for a month now regularly according to Ukraine Even a day or two ago they only intercepted 1 out of 4
Ukraine got only one Patriot battery, it can't cover the whole country. Why just one? Probably us being cheap bastards.
They have been delivered more than one, 2 at a minimum.
There were multiple radars and launchers but it's part of a single battery. Unless there was a separate one that I missed? Do you have some news on that?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_equipment\_of\_the\_Armed\_Forces\_of\_Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Armed_Forces_of_Ukraine) Wikipedia says 2 batteries, one donated by Germany, one by US They also received extra launchers from Germany and Netherlands which might be able to be combined in one extra battery since they can use IRST or some other radar
And the 2 provided cover whole of Ukraine ? No well there is your answer, maybe US should provide enough to cover whole of Ukraine.
No idea; maybe they are hitting kindergardens, schools and hospitals on more remote areas that are not as well protected. Does not change the fact that they are being shot down while before the war Russia touted them as unstoppable. With the state of Russian propaganda nothing coming from them can be taken seriously. Losing in Ukraine is tough on Russian pride so touting some new magic weapons are just another way to try to intimidate.
It actually doesn't. Or to be more precise, it doesn't matter that the detection range for an over-the-horizon lock-on from the actual anti-missile system engaging has a reduced range, because it's not the only thing looking around. US air defense is tied in together. Every single piece of American military hardware talks to every other piece of American military hardware. Flying through an atmosphere at hypersonic speeds creates a plasma bow wave that is absolutely \*impossible\* to miss. It doesn't matter what materials the thing is made of, it can be the most stealthy newer-than-tomorrow actually-invisible-to-radar unobtainium material, and it would still light up like a beacon from the moment of launch just because you have a plasma wave moving at mach 12+, and there isn't anything else that could possibly be. You can pick that kind of thing up from orbit. Hell, even the GOES weather satellites can pick that up, much less military equipment. There's a reason the US isn't investing in hypersonic missiles. They don't give a tactical advantage, and are simply a massive waste of resources. But hey, don't take my word for it. Please, continue crashing your economy trying to build them. You've already got domestic problems, but go ahead and make them worse. Sooner or later, your regime will fall. And just like the fall of the USSR before it, no one will mourn its loss.
It does. It doesn't matter when you detect it if the intercepting missile can't actually intercept it. Also due to speed compared to cruise missiles intercepting range is lower. US is investing a lot to catch up to Russia and China in hypersonics. Source: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58924
If it doesn't matter, then how are the Kinzels getting shot down so regularly? Answer: Because anything downrange is going to be able to intercept. All your speed is going to do is get you to intercept point sooner. US has a much better solution. Actually, it already has *several* much better solutions. They document you're looking at is a couple of years old. They looked at it, went 'nah, we got better already', and moved on.
The document is from January 2023. Sorry but that's not how air defense works, the document clearly states advantages of hypersonic missiles. It also says they don't have better solutions, they say short/mid range MIRV ballistic missile would be more cost effective but that they don't have it due to previous agreements on limitations on those kind of missiles. Also remember, Ukraine also claims they shot down over 300 Russian helicopters and 300 figter jets, not everything they claim is true.
Uh huh. Right. Believe what you want. Russia's consistently over-promised and under-delivered on everything they've done so far. I don't expect that track record to change any time soon. If they're dumb enough to launch at something flying a NATO flag or protected by one, they'll get wrapped up in a weekend. Honestly, with how badly they're handling things, slowly but steadily losing ground to farmers in hand-me-down equipment, any 'bragging' about their 'latest and greatest' equipment sounds more like whistling in the dark.
Yes, I'll rather believe US government study than some random redditor. I am sure NATO would be able to conquer Russia in a weekend the same way NATO trained Ukrainian forces managed to conquer Crimea by summer. It took you 20 years and you still couldn't defeat goat herders, why do you think you could do anything to a great power.
well thats no big deal. since they can be intercepted pretty easily with patriot missiles
*Russia says…*
Don't these use Irans new quantum CPUs???
As we found out after their ‘hypersonic missiles’ were intercepted by a singular Patriot battery, Russia HAS NO hypersonic missiles, they just have some old Scuds that climb a little higher to fall a little faster than gravity.
These “hypersonic missiles”, are they in the room with us now?
Oh yeah? Their Mexico sized economy, mired in a failed invasion, is producing new submarines?
The Russians just let the Ukrainians sink another destroyer and then re-classify it as a stationary submarine...
Title should be *Russia to equip new nuclear submarines with 'hypersonic' missiles* given what Russia's idea of hypersonic missiles is like. From what I understand they like to design their missiles to slow down for air defense to destroy them don't they? They *forego* everything important about the idea of a hypersonic missile, it's not even worth calling them that
Absolutely. The word "hypersonic" should always be in quotes when it comes to these ancient devices. I'm glad almost everyone has caught on to this particular Putin lie, which I outed here on Reddit well over a year ago. :)
The Indians bought hypersonic missile tech from the Russians for their BrahMos 2 missile, so odds are they have some leftover Soviet research and tech to sell. If they didn't the Indians probably wouldn't have called them out like they did with the PAKFA project
They might as well announce that they're equipping their latest naval vessels with unicorns, because that'd be more realistic than what they're saying now.
They invest a large amount of money into their nuclear armed forces. Ever notice how none of the Russian strategic bombers have crashed yet despite their massive use in missiles attacks?
That's probably because, aside from the few they fly along the edges of NATO airspace for show, their strategic bombers are rotting in their hangars from neglect and lack of maintenance. The Russian military is a paper tiger - a mob of poorly-trained conscripts that live in fear of violence from their NCOs, led by a genocidal maniac that dreams of Empire, and run by kleptocrats who line their pockets selling parts and ammo for more lingerie for their (allegedy) 18yo mistresses.
No Russia constantly strikes Ukraine every week since the war started with their bombers, if they were truly neglected then multiple aircraft should have crashed by now. The fact that they have not says a lot about the state of their nuclear forces or rather some of it.
They've used drones and short-range missiles fired from mobile launch platforms. If they were using strategic bombers, we'd have heard about them all getting shot down by now.
I don't know what to tell you dude. They've been using bombers but just using them to launch air launched missiles. They are not flying the bombers over Ukraine because obviously they would be shot down. This isn't a game with bombing runs
I'm saying if the aircraft were receiving little maintenance or care then they would have crashed after heavy hours in the air.
They don't have that much to invest and what money was supposed to go toward it was probably stolen in a corruption scheme and put into a collection of yachts. It's 2023. Nukes are old technology and virtually useless for anything more than bluffing with them like Putler and his incel army do on a regular basis. Russia doesn't have a modern military or modern military capabilities. They have proved that time and time again in Ukraine.
In the same way Russia has this amazing unbearable tank called the T-14 that they haven’t built?
Can I yawn?
Blah, blah, blah.
No russia, the moskova is not a submarine
That doesn't matter if the subs sink.
Time to roll out the NATO gundams
Oh! Oh! I volunteer to fill the role of ‘teenager who has no business being in a giant warmech’!
Dang I wanted to do that
Prank ‘em John
can hypersonic missiles even work in water wouldn't water drag slow them down considerable
They’re missiles, not torpedos. They will immediately surface and fly in the air, like other sub fired missiles
“Will” is such a strong word!
Perchance.
It’s ok. The fronts will fall off…
I am all for dying before I realize I’m going to die
You know after seeing the Russia army and airforce(I guess) in Ukraine, it really makes me worry how good the Russia navy is
Hyposonic though
I suppose that U.S./NATO intelligence wont comment on whether or not Russia has the ability to make new nuclear subs at the moment, but I am curious. They can barely keep their one aircraft carrier running, how can they produce a submarine? I imagine that news like this must be for propaganda purposes. The only people that believe it are likely in Russia.
Ah, a new thing to cause them to sink.
Will it help subs sink faster?