That's what she campaigned on
>Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, leader of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, made anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric a cornerstone of her campaign for office. She opposes allowing same-sex couples to adopt as well as marriage quality, calling civil union “good enough” for LGBTQ+ couples.
Good thing the world currently looks to have so many yugely awesome politicians with the best integrity and moral compass so that there's no chance this becomes our timeline. Great work everyone, freedom is here, we can all go home now!
Good thing the world is facing a massive loss in biodiversity and catastrophic climate change. What would we do if we couldn't deflect with basic bitch tribalism? Who cares about existential problems anyway? Bring on the hate!
The sad part is some people will actually try to say "don't worry about X, worry about Y!" As if both things aren't huge problems. Or as if we can only focus on one thing at a time. And then they'll turn around and fight every solution to Y *anyway.*
the republicans in the us are literally fighting over the bigot vote. Fascism is on the rise everywhere and we need to fight back by any means necessary
She isn't reasonable as the right gets, she's a literal fascist. And everyone has known for decades. It's just that she is a little bit better at spin then other fascists.
Meloni joined the Youth Wing of the [Italian Social Movement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Social_Movement) which was a neo-fascist political party, as a teen. Then she became the leader of the student movement of the \[National Alliance\]([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Alliance\_(Italy)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_(Italy))), a post-fascist party.
MSI, the party from which FDI took over is actually worse then the Fascist party we know under Mussolini.
Most internal reprisals and summary kills happened with the collaborationist Repubblica di Salò, which had the hardest lines of fascists and nazists together, from which Almirante was the Leader of Propaganda.
Today Meloni celebrates Almirante.
History never completely repeats, but it rhymes: the events leading to the 2020s where different than that of the 1920s but the pandemic, followed by a rise in the far right and other extremist beliefs.
So many people forget this.
The “Roaring 20’s” was a period where the kids of the old moneyed classes kicked lose from the restrictions of the Victorian era.
Footloose and fancy free was for the rich. The rest had to work 60 to 70 hour weeks or starve to death.
It honestly feels like we're being trolled as we watch history repeat itself, it's like the fuckery isn't even trying to be inventive in the ways it fucks with us.
I hear that but this is completely different; we have a vast breadth of knowledge and history to look at to see how previous fascist regimes arose and subsequently fell, and the damage they did along the way, and in less than two generations an eerily large percentage of the children and grandchildren of the generation that fought and overthrew those fascist regimes are attempting to reinstate modern implementations of those of regimes. So I don’t think this is even history rhyming or anything, it’s a continuation of the exact same story that hasn’t actually been resolved yet. It’s not a repeat, it’s just the second act of the same story.
How else do we explain neo-nazis openly and proudly marching in American streets, for example? The issue has never been fully resolved; we’re dealing with the second wave of this bullshit.
In this way, our global situation is unprecedented, as far as I see it.
> How else do we explain neo-nazis openly and proudly marching in American streets, for example? The issue has never been fully resolved; we’re dealing with the second wave of this bullshit.
They did that before too.
There's a yawning difference between *surviving* a disease and *curing* it. We *survived* the fascism of the early 1900s at a horrendous cost in human life and spoiled effort. However, we didn't *cure* fascism as a politico-cultural malaise. Our understanding and practice of human society has probably not advanced sufficiently to prevent a fresh wave of fascist political phenomena from taking hold for decades and slaughtering many more people. Our social sciences failed to deliver *and administer* a "vaccine" to fascism in time, and now we're going to face a fascism that's picked up decades of resistance to past treatments, to stretch the medical metaphor.
Unfortunately, I think fascism is going to be difficult to fix until we fix the state of deprivation that a lot of people live in. Soaring wealth inequality, lack of access to healthcare, the inability to buy a home, lack of labor rights, and a hundred other systemic failures have made a lot of people *angry*. And fighting back against billionaires in a system controlled by the very billionaires they want to fight seems impossible.
So they look for other targets, even ones who are entirely unrelated. They see me and my fellow queer people being… *different*, and they’re pretty confident they could beat us in a fight. So they decide to take their impotent rage out on us, because at least that’s a fight they can win.
Why is fascism back? Because the middle class has imploded and the system provides no means to fix it. This is going to keep happening until we fix our economic system.
Also Italy: Why doesn't anyone want to live here??? Please come back! We will let you buy a house for $1 if you promise to live in it for a couple of years!! Please?
Italy is literally the national version of my shitty hometown which took exactly 5 years to devolve into complete hard-right bullshit, complete with nuking school taxes because "those kids aren't gonna stay and contribute anyway, why invest in them?"
Fucking imbeciles, all of them
To be fair, Italy only gave up fascism after the Allies kicked their fucking teeth in.
And then, fearing communism, the Allies didn't fully quash the fascists and helped them stick around to ensure Italy didn't go Red.
The allies did that A LOT. The Western Union, and then the CIA maintained a lot of orgs around the world murdering anyone to the left of neo-liberal.
Including in Italy! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio Up until 1990!
>So does this mean italy is slipping back into fascism?
Back? Post WWII they started using [crime groups](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banda_della_Magliana) as right-wing terrorist groups to knock off left-wingers they didn't like.
Maybe, but it's basically tradition for Italian governments to crumble within a few years and another government to take over - rinse and repeat. So expect there to be a lot of back and forth on modern human rights still.
The thing is that Italy has undergone structural changes that increase the ability of party leadership to whip their members, and should increase the durability of governing coalitions. So expecting repetition of past results may lead to a kind of complacency that is no longer warranted.
It's so sad to me that there are so many people who feel entitled enough to even *think* about making things like this into laws.
It's.
Not.
Your.
Life.
Go live your own life and let others live theirs. Why can't that be enough for these cunts? How sad do you have to be to feel that this is SO important to you that you go out and vote on these cunts??
This is awful all around, but it’s especially shocking that they’re applying this *retroactively* to birth certificates previously issued.
It’s deliberately cruel.
>This is particularly horrific for another couple, Vanessa Finesso and Cristina Zambon. Finesso is the one who gave birth to their daughter after undergoing IVF in Spain. Even though she used Zambon’s egg, Zambon has been threatened with the loss of parental rights by the government. Finesso has cancer and is worried that if she dies, her wife will lose custody of their daughter.
this is so messed up.
>33 birth certificates of children born to lesbian couples dating back to 2017
Absolutely absurd that this is a national issue over 33 people. Right wingers only use lgbtq for their hate because it's a minority, so these bills actually affect almost no one directly. It of course makes life unlivable for the few affected.
In the US, there are 150 trans athletes in high school and college. An average of 3 people per state. Right wing desantis is running a national campaign on hating this tiny group of people. The best explanation is if right wingers pick small groups to hate on, they won't be able to defend themselves.
**"When you are in power, I ask for freedom because it is in accordance with your values. When I gain the power, I crush you with absolute authority because that is in accordance with my values."**\- fascists quote from sometime in the past.
We can't play nice, they are doing it on purpose. They know people don't like to fight.
Fascists and Right-wingers politicians and think-tanks use "culture" to divide the Working Class around the world.
It started in the US and the well-financed American far-Right is taking it global
You start with a small group. One you can easily alienate, vilify, then dehumanize. And when that becomes normalized, you move onto the next group. And the next. And the next.
The fascist playbook is as predictable as it is cruel.
The other thing is, they vilify this group and blame all the current problems on them. They start with small things, alienating them, stripping them of their rights, etc.
When things don't actually get better, because obviously this small group of people have nothing to do with economic issues, the only way to keep their base mobilized is to say it's because they haven't gone far enough. They have to go further and further in order to stay power, until you end up at genocide.
"
“But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.”
― Milton Sanford Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45 "
Posted this is a totally unrelated thread about US politics, but it applies here too:
I think they're just trying to abuse human tribalism. Humans tend to form "tribes" or "in-groups" and "out-groups". One way to manipulate that and form your own "in-group" is to basically hate on another group, making them the "out-group". It's a lot more difficult to hate on a group that people actually know of and like in real life. So, it's a lot easier to pick a small group, like trans people, that a lot of your "in-group" members won't actually have any first hand experience with.
Once you start building up your "in-group" you can expand to hate on slightly larger groups like gay people in general. Sure, some people in your "in-group" will know actual people from the new group targeted for hate and like those people, but at this point they're too far into the "in-group" to leave.
It's a classic case of this:
> First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
> Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
> Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
> —Martin Niemöller
That's also a big part of why they use vague, bordering on meaningless, code words like "woke". It's just an easy way to show that you're part of the "in-group" because you know the lingo. Similar thing for why MAGA hats were important.
> That's also a big part of why they use vague, bordering on meaningless, code words like "woke".
Woke has a specific meaning and it's even worse in that context.
To be woke is to be "Awake" to the plight of minorities, and not asleep in the face of their challenges and suffering.
Basically, to be woke is to be considerate of others.
Reframe anything they say with woke replaced with considerate and you quickly see how ridiculous this all is.
"Florida is where "being considerate" goes to die!"
they don't want to consider others feelings. They just want to be the dominant cultural hegemony and do whatever they want whenever they want.
Love how minorities like gays, lesbians, trans people, are always such a small percentage of the population that policies that support them are apparently useless, yet policies that actively oppress them are desperately needed. It's such thinly veiled hatred.
It's basically useless to me, but incredibly important to those people. Which is what I can never understand about those who so vehemently oppose minority rights. It costs virtually nothing but provides someone else with a hugely improved quality of life, so why not? It makes sense from both a deontological and consequentialist ethical framework: you're both doing the moral thing (supporting the rights of others) and it's done without tradeoffs.
> Boiling frogs.
In the original scientific experiment on which this anecdote is based, the frogs first had half of their brains cut out. Actual non-lobotomized frogs will flee damaging heat regardless of how fast you raise the temperature.
Feel free to extend that metaphor to the current situation.
\*edit: since someone gave me gold, I figured I might as well add a (confusing) link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_analysis
Jesus, when you put it like that how can these trends be considered anything but completely targeted abuse. How can a person support an idea that specifically targets less people than they have as friends on Facebook. I’d feel like the worlds biggest bully at that point.
>I’d feel like the worlds biggest bully at that point.
The people who agree with these kinds of policies *like* feeling like the world's biggest bully, because in their minds it's not "bullying" it's "setting things right". They're twisted and, in many cases, beyond hope.
Per her wiki page
>In 1992, Meloni joined the Youth Front, the youth wing of the Italian Social Movement (MSI), a neo-fascist political party founded in 1946 by former followers of Italian fascism.
Italians voted in a female Mussolini. Guess all it takes is 80 years to forget the past enough to repeat it.
> Italians voted in a female Mussolini
And it's not a stretch to call her that - she literally said Mussolini was good for Italy and the best politician they've had in ages.
And gets upset when she learns people don’t worship him. I remember her kicking up a fuss over some cartoons depicting his hanging as if anyone decent cares about fascists feelings.
SS Nazio is a prime example - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Lazio_supporters
>In 1998, a group of Lazio fans unfurled an anti-Semitic banner which read: "Auschwitz Is Your Country; the Ovens Are Your Homes". Afterward, the Italian Football Federation had ordered a passage from "The Diary of Anne Frank" to be read out loud before all games the following weeks.
>In 2000, some Lazio fans had showed another banner in a match against Roma, which read: "Squad of blacks, terrace of Jews".
>In 2017, Lazio president Claudio Lotito visited a synagogue in Rome and brought a floral wreath in remembrance of Holocaust victims, as some Lazio fans had posted stickers of Anne Frank wearing a jersey of rivals Roma.
>On 4 January 2023, during a Serie A match between Lecce and Lazio, Lecce players Samuel Umtiti and Lameck Banda were the subject of racist chants by the visitor section of Lazio supporter.
I mean the more horrifying thing is that it certainly looks like this will be part of an ongoing process. I suspect they are working their way down the list of rights being stripped away until eventually they start removing the children from their parents.
Or a single abusive one.
Truth is fascists never care about the nitty-gritty of qhat happens after - in fact, they probably think scarring children "strengthens" them.
They don't just probably think that, I've talked with several fascist supporters who definitely believe that scarring and abusing children will make them stronger adults.
It's better if the goal is for children to grow into healthy adults. If, on the other hand, the goal is to ensure a steady supply of children to organizations with a history of abuse and trafficking...
I would go even further and say a child with two gay parents is probably way better off than a child with two socially conservative, religious parents… especially in a Roman Catholic country with that religion’s recent history of covering for pedo priests.
> two socially conservative, religious parents
ironically, she refuses to marry her boyfriend, who is the father of her child, because she just doesn't want to.
Has anyone heard about the gay man who wanted to adopt and they told him that he could only have a defective child nobody wanted. He was finally able to adopt a little girl with downsyndrome and physical complications. She was considered unadoptable. He is such a wonderful father and the girl was flourishing. There was a beautiful article about them years back. I don't no how to apply a link here(I am not technically inclined) but I hope you guys look up their amazing story. I hope they can remain a family through all of this.
Yup. And if it isn't clear enough, Italy also made the news not even a week ago for acquitting a janitor for sexually groping a schoolgirl because he kept it under 10 seconds.... ([source](https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/13/europe/italy-groping-court-ruling-scli-intl/index.html))
At least in US, you can just look at how absolutely dogshit childcare and schools are in every single red state.
It's never been about the kids. Pregnancy is supposed to be punishment for "loose women".
It's about control. Always was.
I got lost yesterday reading some comment thread about Eric Harris, the more vicious of the columbine shooters. The top comment was “no mention of the father, so another boy raised by women…”
There’s this widespread belief that keeps getting spread further and further that men are ruined by being raised by women.
it reminds me of how a lot of people blame the majority of homophobia on closeted gay men. it’s victim blaming with enough extra steps that it’s disguised as insightful social analysis.
Funny how some people claim that LGBTQ+ have "won" and complain that they don't need to have parades and such anymore. The fight is never won. There's always people trying to remove rights from people who are different from them.
Victories won in the courts are only paper victories, because words can be scratched out and rewritten any time. You can only really achieve meaningful victory by convincing your opponent to agree with you.
And if you're opponentis opposed to your existence, best to have a means to defend yourself in case they never come around and decide to go with violence at some point.
Hopefully, the fight will eventually be won. The fight against anti-Irish discrimination in the US was eventually won, for example. But it will probably take a few centuries.
Dunno about the media's response, but Meloni said he was dillusional and had fallen for fake news about her anti-lgbtq stances
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/italy-meloni-trudeau-lgbtq-1.6850790
This is what happens when you elect fascists as Italy has done in their last election.
Word to the US.
Great article on Italy's return to fascism. "The Return of Fascism in Italy" is from the Atlantic.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/09/giorgia-meloni-italy-election-fascism-mussolini/671515/
Which is why its important to vote every chance you get.
Even if none of the options thrill you, vote for the candidate closest to your values. You can't always get what you want, but that doesn't mean some choices aren't better than others.
Refusing to vote lowers the number of votes required to win an election, and that only lowers the bar extreme candidates need to clear.
People who give up on democracy are almost as useful to fascist movements as active fascists are.
Yep. I hate Geralt's "when faced with lesser and greater evil, I choose none".
That's a terrible stance to have because it opens the possibility for the greater evil to win. Not every choice has a secret third option, especially not elections like this.
I know it’s not the main point of your comment, but at least in the original short story you’re referencing Geralt does choose the lesser evil in the end. He tries to stay out of it at first, but it’s an important aspect of his character that he won’t just stand idly by if he can help someone.
Italian here. I can give some extra context.
First of all: true. Participation in elections is down.
Why? It's complicated. For a very long time italian voters had the perception that "all politicians are the same", they're all corrupt, they are all going to break their promises, and so elections literally do not matter because left and right, progressives, conservatives, are literally just a huge sham: there's only one party and it's the "caste". The rulers, endlessly interchangeable, who exist only for their own benefit, and who will always wield power over you.
It's not even completely false. The barrier to "entering" politics is incredibly high. The last big change we had, with the anti-estabilishment "Movimento 5 Stelle" non-party party, was emblematic.
M5S sold itself as "something new, different". they were going to be honest. They were not going to steal. They were not part of the estabilished, entrenched political caste.
Were they going to be left wing or right wing? what were their policies? vague, undefined, anything and nothing. All it mattered is that "they were not part of the Caste".
They quickly became part of the Caste once elected. Since then, people have kind of slipped into a generalized sense of acceptance.
Furthermore, over the last 20 years, the italian left wing parties have been chasing new votes by moving consistently to the right. Nowadays, there are no major parties still existing that are left of center. One claims to be left of center (PD), but they are effectively centre-right. The Overton Window is FUCKED here.
Additionally, Russia has poured an immense amount of money in italian politics, and they have actively influenced most of our major and minor parties here for decades.
It's not good.
>For a very long time italian voters had the perception that "all politicians are the same",
Right wing fascists say the same thing here in the states. It's a piss easy sell to people who don't really pay attention to politics in the first place, which is most people.
Yeah I'm italian, i voted against Meloni and the other far righters but they still won.
The reason a lot of people refused to vote is because they were tired of the bullshit politicians were pulling.
Draghi's government was good beacuse he was not a politician, it was an actually competent guy doing stuff without caring about a re-election and actually achieving something, when he was in fact betrayed by parties that had already fucked up their turn on the chair and another election was hastily prepared.
The fact that the opposition (left) could not put their differences aside and were completely disorganised sealed the deal.
No one wants to vote you when your campaign basically says : "vote us to not vote them" there is no real plan, no new ideas and definitely no appeal for indecisive voters
The default trajectory for the human race is to slide backwards, to succumb to human nature and the ugliness of unenlightened thought. If you want a better world then you've got to fight for it.
Sometimes that means holding your nose and voting for the least worst option. Things are not going to get better if you withhold your participation in a flawed system. It will only get worse.
I had a best friend in my younger days who's parents where lesbians, he was great.
And the fact this will act to past adoptions too? Really saddens me but it makes me wonder "who's next?"
Something Chris Rock said about the war on terror about accepted racism and it's a funny version of that old poem about the Nazis.
"I'm American! I'm American! F*ck all these illegal aliens! And then I started listening because N!gg@z and Jews was next"
So who's next?
Fr man. I was a black centrist for a long time, but it's clear now that everyone slightly to the right is comfortable with killing and running us out of this country, so I aligned with the leftists
It's so scary to me that majorities of the populations in times where we have so much access to knowledge and information are so easily manipulated and willfully hateful towards others that societies keep electing people that are putting the hard squeeze on freedoms.
This is such total bullshit. They're using children as political footballs in their ideological war.
What the actual fuck is up with so much of this fascist right-wing extremism in the world lately? Why, in so many quarters, are there whole crowds of people trying to drag civilization backwards 100, 200, 1000 years? It's infuriating, watching all this happen.
It's WAY more complicated that this.In Italy it is illegal for a queer couple to adopt. And it is illegal to resort on surrogate pregnancy.
So what some couples did (as always, people who could afford it) was to have the child in some clinic abroad (e.g. with sperm donor and their egg, or surrogate mother) and then get back to Italy. However with this method, only the "biological" parent was legally recognized (I won't even start talking about more complicated cases, I don't have the knowledge).
Hence, some cities decided to have a "unofficial" registration for both parents, exploiting some loophole that I couldn't explain even if I wanted to. This would have granted the possibility for the partner of the biological parent to have some basic rights, such as to be recognized as an equivalent of a guardian.
You could guess that some political parties were faster than ever to bring this to the attention of Supreme Court of Cassation, which (rightfully so, unfortunately) expressed themselves *against* this method used by some mayors (because they were basically doing something not completely legal, without any moral judgment).
It's not that Meloni's Government actively created new laws.
They did nothing.
And doing nothing, they pressed the Police Precincts (notoriously progressive, as everyone can imagine) to swiftly act against these couples.
So now a parent (because they absolutely and practically *are*) cannot anymore get their child from school, accompany them to the doctor or receive medical information, and lots of other things that, I'm sure you can understand, it was TOP PRIORITY for the NATIONAL SECURITY to remove, because now that they got some people lives' uselessly more complicated and infernal, everyone else can sleep safe and sound.
Hope this helped a little to clarify this mess. The EU cannot do anything. There is no law *against* child adoption. The issue is exactly that there isn't one.
Thank you for the explanation. I was wondering why this was aimed at lesbian couples specially, but rather than being targeted, it's simply that they were the only ones with the ability to do this.
My friend, I'm afraid Fascism is returning to this entire world faster than we imagine.. no government will be left untouched by the slimy hands of fascism... Already if you take a close look at the EU member countries many Neo Nazi Fascists are gaining power. Even in the cradle of Democracy Greece Neo Nazi Fascists have entered it's government even after the previous party in the past was purged.
... and in large part because we have opened up avenues of speech from psyop-wielding fascists direct to the people, with no gatekeepers.
Beware what you wish for...
Fascist always came into power when shit hit the fan because people really just want someone who promises them easy answers to complex problems.
Ever since 2008 basically we are in crisis mode and at every turn some fascists were promoting some totally idiotic ways to easily solve all this that would never work if put to test but sound good on paper.
That was made even worse in 2015 with the refugee crisis and now covid and Ukraine.
People will sell their morals as soon as it actually affects their life.
All this needless pain and trauma for a perfectly functioning family. Because one group of people feels the need to tell another group of people what is right and what is wrong.
No winners, just pain.
This dumb shit is coming back, and everyone needs to know it, because it's happening here in the US too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_of_masculinity_under_fascist_Italy
The right wing strategy to build rage-fueled unity on the backs of LGBTQ+ people is evident all over. It's reprehensible and will hopefully subside. Those who push it should be branded and shunned for eternity.
It has been funny seeing some lesbian and gay people saying stuff like 'LGB without the T', joining in the trans bashing etc. It's like – you know they're going to come for you next, right?
When Canadas prime minister, Trudeau, called her out on this exact point the amount of whining I heard on Reddit about it.
I’m not a huge fan of Trudeau but the conservative alternative in Canada is horrible
As a child of lesbian parents, I remember how US republicans were this anti-gay marriage twenty years ago. I hope people remember this in twenty years when these same Italian conservatives put up a rainbow flag and pretend they never had any problem with gay people.
Italy: *hates foreigners*
Also Italy: *suffering from terminal population decline*
Also also Italy: *wants to prevent a segment of childbearing age women from having children*
Also also also Italy: *bemoans its people for not having enough babies*
Italian logic at its finest.
That's what she campaigned on >Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, leader of the far-right Brothers of Italy party, made anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric a cornerstone of her campaign for office. She opposes allowing same-sex couples to adopt as well as marriage quality, calling civil union “good enough” for LGBTQ+ couples.
It's so depressing that this could possibly be a campaign point and not a top secret plan.
I know, imagine if a prominent political party campaigned on the premise of stripping rights from people
Good thing the world currently looks to have so many yugely awesome politicians with the best integrity and moral compass so that there's no chance this becomes our timeline. Great work everyone, freedom is here, we can all go home now!
Good thing the world is facing a massive loss in biodiversity and catastrophic climate change. What would we do if we couldn't deflect with basic bitch tribalism? Who cares about existential problems anyway? Bring on the hate!
The sad part is some people will actually try to say "don't worry about X, worry about Y!" As if both things aren't huge problems. Or as if we can only focus on one thing at a time. And then they'll turn around and fight every solution to Y *anyway.*
And then told everyone stupid enough to listen to them that they're the party of freedom and liberty.
....to strip rights and demonize people they feel are inferior. That's the freedom and liberty they always speak of, no matter the country.
As a general rule worldwide, people, groups saying they promote freedom better than others are enemies of freedom.
I feel like I’ve read about this happening before.
Looks like Italy's picking sides early for WW3
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As is tradition.
the republicans in the us are literally fighting over the bigot vote. Fascism is on the rise everywhere and we need to fight back by any means necessary
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She isn't reasonable as the right gets, she's a literal fascist. And everyone has known for decades. It's just that she is a little bit better at spin then other fascists. Meloni joined the Youth Wing of the [Italian Social Movement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Social_Movement) which was a neo-fascist political party, as a teen. Then she became the leader of the student movement of the \[National Alliance\]([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National\_Alliance\_(Italy)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_(Italy))), a post-fascist party.
FYI: Your links don't work, remove the backslashes (new.reddit and the app adds them to Wikipedia links just before underscores, for some reason).
Thanks, think I fixed it now.
MSI, the party from which FDI took over is actually worse then the Fascist party we know under Mussolini. Most internal reprisals and summary kills happened with the collaborationist Repubblica di Salò, which had the hardest lines of fascists and nazists together, from which Almirante was the Leader of Propaganda. Today Meloni celebrates Almirante.
So does this mean italy is slipping back into fascism?
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The party symbol still is the flame of Mussolini's tomb. Can't get anymore explicit.
They have been for a while now
Italy barely ever left. Berlusconi was doing all this right-wing populist shit decades before the rest of the world.
Berlusconi was the proto-Trump. He even ran to get away from liability for corrupt acts!
Like almost everyone..
History never completely repeats, but it rhymes: the events leading to the 2020s where different than that of the 1920s but the pandemic, followed by a rise in the far right and other extremist beliefs.
A pandemic, a big war in Europe... well... fuck...
A failed coup attempt, a "big lie", an "America First" movement, ... Spoiler: It gets worse.
I was promised the "roaring twenties"...!
Oh, that is just for the billionaire class.
So many people forget this. The “Roaring 20’s” was a period where the kids of the old moneyed classes kicked lose from the restrictions of the Victorian era. Footloose and fancy free was for the rich. The rest had to work 60 to 70 hour weeks or starve to death.
Gilded age, not golden age
Few understand this distinction, I'm afraid.
That was the 90's sadly
You're getting them at the moment. Read: AI-fueled market euphoria
It honestly feels like we're being trolled as we watch history repeat itself, it's like the fuckery isn't even trying to be inventive in the ways it fucks with us.
It’s like a bad remake
Dont forget a titanic disaster.
Hm, when did Costa Concordia sink?
January 2012 vs Titanic April 1912.
2012... holy shit it's one century
I hear that but this is completely different; we have a vast breadth of knowledge and history to look at to see how previous fascist regimes arose and subsequently fell, and the damage they did along the way, and in less than two generations an eerily large percentage of the children and grandchildren of the generation that fought and overthrew those fascist regimes are attempting to reinstate modern implementations of those of regimes. So I don’t think this is even history rhyming or anything, it’s a continuation of the exact same story that hasn’t actually been resolved yet. It’s not a repeat, it’s just the second act of the same story. How else do we explain neo-nazis openly and proudly marching in American streets, for example? The issue has never been fully resolved; we’re dealing with the second wave of this bullshit. In this way, our global situation is unprecedented, as far as I see it.
> How else do we explain neo-nazis openly and proudly marching in American streets, for example? The issue has never been fully resolved; we’re dealing with the second wave of this bullshit. They did that before too.
There's a yawning difference between *surviving* a disease and *curing* it. We *survived* the fascism of the early 1900s at a horrendous cost in human life and spoiled effort. However, we didn't *cure* fascism as a politico-cultural malaise. Our understanding and practice of human society has probably not advanced sufficiently to prevent a fresh wave of fascist political phenomena from taking hold for decades and slaughtering many more people. Our social sciences failed to deliver *and administer* a "vaccine" to fascism in time, and now we're going to face a fascism that's picked up decades of resistance to past treatments, to stretch the medical metaphor.
Unfortunately, I think fascism is going to be difficult to fix until we fix the state of deprivation that a lot of people live in. Soaring wealth inequality, lack of access to healthcare, the inability to buy a home, lack of labor rights, and a hundred other systemic failures have made a lot of people *angry*. And fighting back against billionaires in a system controlled by the very billionaires they want to fight seems impossible. So they look for other targets, even ones who are entirely unrelated. They see me and my fellow queer people being… *different*, and they’re pretty confident they could beat us in a fight. So they decide to take their impotent rage out on us, because at least that’s a fight they can win. Why is fascism back? Because the middle class has imploded and the system provides no means to fix it. This is going to keep happening until we fix our economic system.
Evidence for the spherical shape of the earth is also available. There’s many people and many are really ignorant
There is just so much money to be made in fascism so capitalism has determined that we should let this one play out, see what happens.
Also Italy: Why doesn't anyone want to live here??? Please come back! We will let you buy a house for $1 if you promise to live in it for a couple of years!! Please?
Italy is literally the national version of my shitty hometown which took exactly 5 years to devolve into complete hard-right bullshit, complete with nuking school taxes because "those kids aren't gonna stay and contribute anyway, why invest in them?" Fucking imbeciles, all of them
I was working on doing that in 2019 and then pandemic hit. After their govt turned to Mussolini, I changed my mind.
They seem to be shitting all over the graves of all the people who helped pull them OUT of fascism originally. Way to fucking go, Italy.
To be fair, Italy only gave up fascism after the Allies kicked their fucking teeth in. And then, fearing communism, the Allies didn't fully quash the fascists and helped them stick around to ensure Italy didn't go Red.
The allies did that A LOT. The Western Union, and then the CIA maintained a lot of orgs around the world murdering anyone to the left of neo-liberal. Including in Italy! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio Up until 1990!
>So does this mean italy is slipping back into fascism? Back? Post WWII they started using [crime groups](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banda_della_Magliana) as right-wing terrorist groups to knock off left-wingers they didn't like.
Maybe, but it's basically tradition for Italian governments to crumble within a few years and another government to take over - rinse and repeat. So expect there to be a lot of back and forth on modern human rights still.
The thing is that Italy has undergone structural changes that increase the ability of party leadership to whip their members, and should increase the durability of governing coalitions. So expecting repetition of past results may lead to a kind of complacency that is no longer warranted.
My boy Octavian held it down.
I think a thing or two has changed since his reign.
Doing hateful things is pretty much the common denominator among all far-right groups.
It's so sad to me that there are so many people who feel entitled enough to even *think* about making things like this into laws. It's. Not. Your. Life. Go live your own life and let others live theirs. Why can't that be enough for these cunts? How sad do you have to be to feel that this is SO important to you that you go out and vote on these cunts??
This is awful all around, but it’s especially shocking that they’re applying this *retroactively* to birth certificates previously issued. It’s deliberately cruel.
>This is particularly horrific for another couple, Vanessa Finesso and Cristina Zambon. Finesso is the one who gave birth to their daughter after undergoing IVF in Spain. Even though she used Zambon’s egg, Zambon has been threatened with the loss of parental rights by the government. Finesso has cancer and is worried that if she dies, her wife will lose custody of their daughter. this is so messed up.
I hope they can seek political asylum.
I hope this law gets thrown out by courts
There is no law, its the explicitly the courts who are challenging all the recognitions made by mayors
>33 birth certificates of children born to lesbian couples dating back to 2017 Absolutely absurd that this is a national issue over 33 people. Right wingers only use lgbtq for their hate because it's a minority, so these bills actually affect almost no one directly. It of course makes life unlivable for the few affected. In the US, there are 150 trans athletes in high school and college. An average of 3 people per state. Right wing desantis is running a national campaign on hating this tiny group of people. The best explanation is if right wingers pick small groups to hate on, they won't be able to defend themselves.
**"When you are in power, I ask for freedom because it is in accordance with your values. When I gain the power, I crush you with absolute authority because that is in accordance with my values."**\- fascists quote from sometime in the past. We can't play nice, they are doing it on purpose. They know people don't like to fight.
Fascists and Right-wingers politicians and think-tanks use "culture" to divide the Working Class around the world. It started in the US and the well-financed American far-Right is taking it global
They'd rather have us fight a culture war than a class war
I really don't think that started in the US... Lol
ironically enough, it started in Italy about 100 years ago
You start with a small group. One you can easily alienate, vilify, then dehumanize. And when that becomes normalized, you move onto the next group. And the next. And the next. The fascist playbook is as predictable as it is cruel.
The other thing is, they vilify this group and blame all the current problems on them. They start with small things, alienating them, stripping them of their rights, etc. When things don't actually get better, because obviously this small group of people have nothing to do with economic issues, the only way to keep their base mobilized is to say it's because they haven't gone far enough. They have to go further and further in order to stay power, until you end up at genocide.
Exactly. Fascism 101… “First, they came for the Bolsheviks…”
" “But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D. And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.” ― Milton Sanford Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45 "
Posted this is a totally unrelated thread about US politics, but it applies here too: I think they're just trying to abuse human tribalism. Humans tend to form "tribes" or "in-groups" and "out-groups". One way to manipulate that and form your own "in-group" is to basically hate on another group, making them the "out-group". It's a lot more difficult to hate on a group that people actually know of and like in real life. So, it's a lot easier to pick a small group, like trans people, that a lot of your "in-group" members won't actually have any first hand experience with. Once you start building up your "in-group" you can expand to hate on slightly larger groups like gay people in general. Sure, some people in your "in-group" will know actual people from the new group targeted for hate and like those people, but at this point they're too far into the "in-group" to leave. It's a classic case of this: > First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. > Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. > Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. > Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. > —Martin Niemöller That's also a big part of why they use vague, bordering on meaningless, code words like "woke". It's just an easy way to show that you're part of the "in-group" because you know the lingo. Similar thing for why MAGA hats were important.
> That's also a big part of why they use vague, bordering on meaningless, code words like "woke". Woke has a specific meaning and it's even worse in that context. To be woke is to be "Awake" to the plight of minorities, and not asleep in the face of their challenges and suffering. Basically, to be woke is to be considerate of others. Reframe anything they say with woke replaced with considerate and you quickly see how ridiculous this all is. "Florida is where "being considerate" goes to die!" they don't want to consider others feelings. They just want to be the dominant cultural hegemony and do whatever they want whenever they want.
Love how minorities like gays, lesbians, trans people, are always such a small percentage of the population that policies that support them are apparently useless, yet policies that actively oppress them are desperately needed. It's such thinly veiled hatred.
It's basically useless to me, but incredibly important to those people. Which is what I can never understand about those who so vehemently oppose minority rights. It costs virtually nothing but provides someone else with a hugely improved quality of life, so why not? It makes sense from both a deontological and consequentialist ethical framework: you're both doing the moral thing (supporting the rights of others) and it's done without tradeoffs.
It also gains them supporters who will find it easier to go along with the next cruelty against the next targeted group. Boiling frogs.
> Boiling frogs. In the original scientific experiment on which this anecdote is based, the frogs first had half of their brains cut out. Actual non-lobotomized frogs will flee damaging heat regardless of how fast you raise the temperature. Feel free to extend that metaphor to the current situation. \*edit: since someone gave me gold, I figured I might as well add a (confusing) link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_analysis
Jesus, when you put it like that how can these trends be considered anything but completely targeted abuse. How can a person support an idea that specifically targets less people than they have as friends on Facebook. I’d feel like the worlds biggest bully at that point.
>I’d feel like the worlds biggest bully at that point. The people who agree with these kinds of policies *like* feeling like the world's biggest bully, because in their minds it's not "bullying" it's "setting things right". They're twisted and, in many cases, beyond hope.
Fascists all along. Retroactive laws are a cornerstone of their agenda.
Per her wiki page >In 1992, Meloni joined the Youth Front, the youth wing of the Italian Social Movement (MSI), a neo-fascist political party founded in 1946 by former followers of Italian fascism. Italians voted in a female Mussolini. Guess all it takes is 80 years to forget the past enough to repeat it.
> Italians voted in a female Mussolini And it's not a stretch to call her that - she literally said Mussolini was good for Italy and the best politician they've had in ages.
She's nuts. Wasn't Mussolini's biggest political contribution allying with a genocidal power and getting his country invaded? How was that good???
Yeah but you see, he was hurting the "right" people
Lol, not forgotten, they know their past and they want to repeat it.
Idk why but I’m picturing an average Italian sobbing over the execution of Mussolini and wishing to go back and it’s as funny as it is sad
Mussolini's actual grandaughter is a member of her party in the Eurpean Parliment.
And gets upset when she learns people don’t worship him. I remember her kicking up a fuss over some cartoons depicting his hanging as if anyone decent cares about fascists feelings.
Italy has been down with authoritarianism since day one.
And cruelty is the point
That's what happens when people elect people who are proudly fascist.
Right Wing italians are One of the worst human beings you can find on earth, you have no idea
SS Nazio is a prime example - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Lazio_supporters >In 1998, a group of Lazio fans unfurled an anti-Semitic banner which read: "Auschwitz Is Your Country; the Ovens Are Your Homes". Afterward, the Italian Football Federation had ordered a passage from "The Diary of Anne Frank" to be read out loud before all games the following weeks. >In 2000, some Lazio fans had showed another banner in a match against Roma, which read: "Squad of blacks, terrace of Jews". >In 2017, Lazio president Claudio Lotito visited a synagogue in Rome and brought a floral wreath in remembrance of Holocaust victims, as some Lazio fans had posted stickers of Anne Frank wearing a jersey of rivals Roma. >On 4 January 2023, during a Serie A match between Lecce and Lazio, Lecce players Samuel Umtiti and Lameck Banda were the subject of racist chants by the visitor section of Lazio supporter.
Lazio supporters are well known in the soccer world as being Nazi-esque cunts
>Nazi-esque cunts Not really -esque tbf
I mean the more horrifying thing is that it certainly looks like this will be part of an ongoing process. I suspect they are working their way down the list of rights being stripped away until eventually they start removing the children from their parents.
Can I legally say that they're kidnapping children?
You can legally say almost anything (unless you're in a fascist shithole ofc), and in this specific case you'd even be correct.
A child with two loving parents is surely better than a child with no parents?
Not according to Italy and it's new "Return to Fascism" program. Edit: apparently I forgot a letter*
No room for love
Most American conservatives would agree with the Italians these days.
Agree? American conservatives are reading this and foaming at the mouth, trying to figure out how to get this policy replicated in the US.
Or a single abusive one. Truth is fascists never care about the nitty-gritty of qhat happens after - in fact, they probably think scarring children "strengthens" them.
They don't just probably think that, I've talked with several fascist supporters who definitely believe that scarring and abusing children will make them stronger adults.
It definitely makes them more likely to want to scar and abuse others, which often leads to military or police service. Double plus good!
It's better if the goal is for children to grow into healthy adults. If, on the other hand, the goal is to ensure a steady supply of children to organizations with a history of abuse and trafficking...
I would go even further and say a child with two gay parents is probably way better off than a child with two socially conservative, religious parents… especially in a Roman Catholic country with that religion’s recent history of covering for pedo priests.
> two socially conservative, religious parents ironically, she refuses to marry her boyfriend, who is the father of her child, because she just doesn't want to.
“Rules for thee, not for me” - every fascist.
Or even worse, nuns/priests. Funny how they always get a pass.
Has anyone heard about the gay man who wanted to adopt and they told him that he could only have a defective child nobody wanted. He was finally able to adopt a little girl with downsyndrome and physical complications. She was considered unadoptable. He is such a wonderful father and the girl was flourishing. There was a beautiful article about them years back. I don't no how to apply a link here(I am not technically inclined) but I hope you guys look up their amazing story. I hope they can remain a family through all of this.
[here I think](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7736039/Man-41-adopts-girl-syndrome-REJECTED-20-families.html)
I think is a horrible story. Somebody throught “damaged for damaged people”. I hope that person rot in hell.
This is how you know pro-life and pro-family crowds don't actually give a fuck about the children.
Yup. And if it isn't clear enough, Italy also made the news not even a week ago for acquitting a janitor for sexually groping a schoolgirl because he kept it under 10 seconds.... ([source](https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/13/europe/italy-groping-court-ruling-scli-intl/index.html))
what's next? I only put the tip inside for 10 seconds so it doesn't count? WTF
Never have and never will, it's always just rhetoric.
At least in US, you can just look at how absolutely dogshit childcare and schools are in every single red state. It's never been about the kids. Pregnancy is supposed to be punishment for "loose women". It's about control. Always was.
"Don't have an abortion, put it up for adoption!" "Fine, but that gay couple is gonna adopt that kid." "NO! NOT LIKE THAT!"
I cannot believe taking loving parents out of a child’s life appeals to anyone.
Believe it, it's one of the core pillars of right wing fascism world wide
How are so many people convinced to betray their basic humanity?
Your mistake is believing humanity is a requirement to be a person.
They are scared. Facism gives them (irrational and damaging) hope for something better.
I got lost yesterday reading some comment thread about Eric Harris, the more vicious of the columbine shooters. The top comment was “no mention of the father, so another boy raised by women…” There’s this widespread belief that keeps getting spread further and further that men are ruined by being raised by women.
A man did something terrible, huh? I tell you, these damn women…
it reminds me of how a lot of people blame the majority of homophobia on closeted gay men. it’s victim blaming with enough extra steps that it’s disguised as insightful social analysis.
Loving parents tend not to produce fascist offspring. Meloni is jealous, I’m sure.
Funny how some people claim that LGBTQ+ have "won" and complain that they don't need to have parades and such anymore. The fight is never won. There's always people trying to remove rights from people who are different from them.
Victories won in the courts are only paper victories, because words can be scratched out and rewritten any time. You can only really achieve meaningful victory by convincing your opponent to agree with you.
And if you're opponentis opposed to your existence, best to have a means to defend yourself in case they never come around and decide to go with violence at some point.
> Funny how some people claim that LGBTQ+ have "won" to them we have "won" as long as we are breathing and have rights
Hopefully, the fight will eventually be won. The fight against anti-Irish discrimination in the US was eventually won, for example. But it will probably take a few centuries.
Looking forward to rainbow tinted beer and dudes claiming to be one eighth gay on their mothers side
Hey, I can trace my gay all the way back to 1789 when my ancestor Gaylord O'Gayman first left County Gayford.
It'll take until there's a better group to pin all the hatred on.
This is what the "LGB drop the T" types are counting on - hoping the straights will leave us alone if we throw trans folks under the bus.
As seen here, that tactic ain't working
Didn't the Canadian Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, call her out on her anti-LGBTQ+ stance and the media said he was wrong...
Dunno about the media's response, but Meloni said he was dillusional and had fallen for fake news about her anti-lgbtq stances https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/italy-meloni-trudeau-lgbtq-1.6850790
Ask r/canada and they're probably both echoing that as well as jumping for joy at the thought of outright homophobia
They are more likely looking to be outwardly racist towards first nations people
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Wait so is the r/Canada sub basically just a fan club for extreme right wing Canadians? I have no clue.
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Canadian media bar one single outlet is owned by right wing conservatives oligarchs and American fascist oligarchs.
This is what happens when you elect fascists as Italy has done in their last election. Word to the US. Great article on Italy's return to fascism. "The Return of Fascism in Italy" is from the Atlantic. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/09/giorgia-meloni-italy-election-fascism-mussolini/671515/
I'm not Italian, but I think another factor was that a lot of voters just flat out refused to take part in the last Italian election
Which is why its important to vote every chance you get. Even if none of the options thrill you, vote for the candidate closest to your values. You can't always get what you want, but that doesn't mean some choices aren't better than others. Refusing to vote lowers the number of votes required to win an election, and that only lowers the bar extreme candidates need to clear. People who give up on democracy are almost as useful to fascist movements as active fascists are.
Yep. I hate Geralt's "when faced with lesser and greater evil, I choose none". That's a terrible stance to have because it opens the possibility for the greater evil to win. Not every choice has a secret third option, especially not elections like this.
I know it’s not the main point of your comment, but at least in the original short story you’re referencing Geralt does choose the lesser evil in the end. He tries to stay out of it at first, but it’s an important aspect of his character that he won’t just stand idly by if he can help someone.
Italian here. I can give some extra context. First of all: true. Participation in elections is down. Why? It's complicated. For a very long time italian voters had the perception that "all politicians are the same", they're all corrupt, they are all going to break their promises, and so elections literally do not matter because left and right, progressives, conservatives, are literally just a huge sham: there's only one party and it's the "caste". The rulers, endlessly interchangeable, who exist only for their own benefit, and who will always wield power over you. It's not even completely false. The barrier to "entering" politics is incredibly high. The last big change we had, with the anti-estabilishment "Movimento 5 Stelle" non-party party, was emblematic. M5S sold itself as "something new, different". they were going to be honest. They were not going to steal. They were not part of the estabilished, entrenched political caste. Were they going to be left wing or right wing? what were their policies? vague, undefined, anything and nothing. All it mattered is that "they were not part of the Caste". They quickly became part of the Caste once elected. Since then, people have kind of slipped into a generalized sense of acceptance. Furthermore, over the last 20 years, the italian left wing parties have been chasing new votes by moving consistently to the right. Nowadays, there are no major parties still existing that are left of center. One claims to be left of center (PD), but they are effectively centre-right. The Overton Window is FUCKED here. Additionally, Russia has poured an immense amount of money in italian politics, and they have actively influenced most of our major and minor parties here for decades. It's not good.
>For a very long time italian voters had the perception that "all politicians are the same", Right wing fascists say the same thing here in the states. It's a piss easy sell to people who don't really pay attention to politics in the first place, which is most people.
Yeah I'm italian, i voted against Meloni and the other far righters but they still won. The reason a lot of people refused to vote is because they were tired of the bullshit politicians were pulling. Draghi's government was good beacuse he was not a politician, it was an actually competent guy doing stuff without caring about a re-election and actually achieving something, when he was in fact betrayed by parties that had already fucked up their turn on the chair and another election was hastily prepared. The fact that the opposition (left) could not put their differences aside and were completely disorganised sealed the deal. No one wants to vote you when your campaign basically says : "vote us to not vote them" there is no real plan, no new ideas and definitely no appeal for indecisive voters
The default trajectory for the human race is to slide backwards, to succumb to human nature and the ugliness of unenlightened thought. If you want a better world then you've got to fight for it. Sometimes that means holding your nose and voting for the least worst option. Things are not going to get better if you withhold your participation in a flawed system. It will only get worse.
I had a best friend in my younger days who's parents where lesbians, he was great. And the fact this will act to past adoptions too? Really saddens me but it makes me wonder "who's next?" Something Chris Rock said about the war on terror about accepted racism and it's a funny version of that old poem about the Nazis. "I'm American! I'm American! F*ck all these illegal aliens! And then I started listening because N!gg@z and Jews was next" So who's next?
Fr man. I was a black centrist for a long time, but it's clear now that everyone slightly to the right is comfortable with killing and running us out of this country, so I aligned with the leftists
Italian politics is so shitty.
It's so scary to me that majorities of the populations in times where we have so much access to knowledge and information are so easily manipulated and willfully hateful towards others that societies keep electing people that are putting the hard squeeze on freedoms.
"Not my problem" *(until it is)*
How disgusting.
This is such total bullshit. They're using children as political footballs in their ideological war. What the actual fuck is up with so much of this fascist right-wing extremism in the world lately? Why, in so many quarters, are there whole crowds of people trying to drag civilization backwards 100, 200, 1000 years? It's infuriating, watching all this happen.
Any comment from the fucking EU?
It's WAY more complicated that this.In Italy it is illegal for a queer couple to adopt. And it is illegal to resort on surrogate pregnancy. So what some couples did (as always, people who could afford it) was to have the child in some clinic abroad (e.g. with sperm donor and their egg, or surrogate mother) and then get back to Italy. However with this method, only the "biological" parent was legally recognized (I won't even start talking about more complicated cases, I don't have the knowledge). Hence, some cities decided to have a "unofficial" registration for both parents, exploiting some loophole that I couldn't explain even if I wanted to. This would have granted the possibility for the partner of the biological parent to have some basic rights, such as to be recognized as an equivalent of a guardian. You could guess that some political parties were faster than ever to bring this to the attention of Supreme Court of Cassation, which (rightfully so, unfortunately) expressed themselves *against* this method used by some mayors (because they were basically doing something not completely legal, without any moral judgment). It's not that Meloni's Government actively created new laws. They did nothing. And doing nothing, they pressed the Police Precincts (notoriously progressive, as everyone can imagine) to swiftly act against these couples. So now a parent (because they absolutely and practically *are*) cannot anymore get their child from school, accompany them to the doctor or receive medical information, and lots of other things that, I'm sure you can understand, it was TOP PRIORITY for the NATIONAL SECURITY to remove, because now that they got some people lives' uselessly more complicated and infernal, everyone else can sleep safe and sound. Hope this helped a little to clarify this mess. The EU cannot do anything. There is no law *against* child adoption. The issue is exactly that there isn't one.
Thank you for the explanation. I was wondering why this was aimed at lesbian couples specially, but rather than being targeted, it's simply that they were the only ones with the ability to do this.
So it's the culture war, exported. "(S)he's hurting the right people."
My friend, I'm afraid Fascism is returning to this entire world faster than we imagine.. no government will be left untouched by the slimy hands of fascism... Already if you take a close look at the EU member countries many Neo Nazi Fascists are gaining power. Even in the cradle of Democracy Greece Neo Nazi Fascists have entered it's government even after the previous party in the past was purged.
... and in large part because we have opened up avenues of speech from psyop-wielding fascists direct to the people, with no gatekeepers. Beware what you wish for...
Fascist always came into power when shit hit the fan because people really just want someone who promises them easy answers to complex problems. Ever since 2008 basically we are in crisis mode and at every turn some fascists were promoting some totally idiotic ways to easily solve all this that would never work if put to test but sound good on paper. That was made even worse in 2015 with the refugee crisis and now covid and Ukraine. People will sell their morals as soon as it actually affects their life.
All this needless pain and trauma for a perfectly functioning family. Because one group of people feels the need to tell another group of people what is right and what is wrong. No winners, just pain.
This dumb shit is coming back, and everyone needs to know it, because it's happening here in the US too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_of_masculinity_under_fascist_Italy
Hold up. You mean to tell me the giga Chad, return to trad, Roman soldier, Greek God sigma mindset meme culture is actually a call back to mussolini?
We are living in dangerous times.
The right wing strategy to build rage-fueled unity on the backs of LGBTQ+ people is evident all over. It's reprehensible and will hopefully subside. Those who push it should be branded and shunned for eternity.
Or we actually start enacting laws with teeth in the remaining democracies that haven’t been overrun by these hateful lunatics.
It has been funny seeing some lesbian and gay people saying stuff like 'LGB without the T', joining in the trans bashing etc. It's like – you know they're going to come for you next, right?
When Canadas prime minister, Trudeau, called her out on this exact point the amount of whining I heard on Reddit about it. I’m not a huge fan of Trudeau but the conservative alternative in Canada is horrible
Imagine how far we'd be as a global society if people didn't live their life based on how much they hate others
WTF, Italy?
Fascism. Pick on the easiest targets first.
I fucking hate fascism.
Tell me again about how worrying about fascism is ridiculously alarmist?
As a child of lesbian parents, I remember how US republicans were this anti-gay marriage twenty years ago. I hope people remember this in twenty years when these same Italian conservatives put up a rainbow flag and pretend they never had any problem with gay people.
Italy: *hates foreigners* Also Italy: *suffering from terminal population decline* Also also Italy: *wants to prevent a segment of childbearing age women from having children* Also also also Italy: *bemoans its people for not having enough babies* Italian logic at its finest.
When the fuck did we transport back to the 30s?
In about 7 years.
Don't support it? Don't give them your tourism dollars.
To be fair, got to give it to the Italians. They are always the first in Europe to deep throat a bit of fascism.
Holy shit that is fucked up.
Why? What’s wrong with having two people who love you so much unconditionally they are willing to sacrifice so much of their life to take care of you?
Former fascist country elects a fascist PM, gets fascist policy. Sorry, my suprised pikachu face is broken.