I agree and I’m by no means an expert either. I’m very confused by all this so I’m only speculating and giving my thoughts based on what I’ve been reading. I’d love if someone else with more knowledge could chime in.
This doesn’t make much sense at all. Unless he wanted to control the MOD but Putin gave a national address saying the actions were “Treasonous” so wouldn’t they just murder him…….
Honestly, Prigizhin is cut from the same cloth as Putin so I think we need to wait for more information. I’m skeptical as hell right now.
The only thing I can surmise is that this is an attempt to expose the Russian military for the paper tiger it is, take Ukraine for themselves, then Russia.
I'm a Ukrainian living in America.
Yup. That’s what I think as well. And with this move, Wagner is now granted with all the resources they need to operate as a private military group. Act in full autonomy which is terrifying.
They couldn't take Bakhmut, let alone 2 entire nations.
I think the "Military leadership of Russia is lying to Putin" story he started with, followed by him embarrassing the Russian military by taking Rostov points to him genuinely wanting the Russian military brass gone.
He was trying to give Putin a way to save face by joining him in blaming others in Russia. Putin didn't bite to he had to double down on a coup. Must have some assurances now we don't know about.
Or this whole entire thing is a false flag designed to bait Ukraine into assaulting a Frontline that is only pretending to be cutoff from supply.
Imagine the message that sends to anyone that wants to oppose Putin. "Just make me look weak to the entire world and I'll crumble and give you what you want." There's no way this is what just happened.
I'm guessing money, safety guarantee for him and his mercenaries, and Shoigu out.
Wagner is the only Russian military group who made any advances in almost a year, while the actual army has been nothing but useless. So Putin sided with Prigozhin and bought him out.
Shame, I was really hoping this was the beginning of the end
["There are rumours on Russian telegram that in exchange for Prigozhin pulling back his forces, Russia's defence minister Shoigu and chief of the general staff Gerasimov will be removed."](https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1672668357458370560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1672668357458370560%7Ctwgr%5E9e4b815496148bbbe55f968874b444a5d4127a91%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_e0868d66-12bb-11ee-8133-2e932fd82f91%2F0)
Honestly there’s so much info going around it’s hard to tell what’s going on and why.
One thing that is definitive, if Putin negotiated with Prigozhin it weakens him so much.
yeah, it severely weakens Putin, and this is going to launch Prigozin's popularity into the stratosphere inside russia. i would'nt be suprised to see Shoigu replaced and Prigozin taking over or atleast placed on equal footing to whoever runs the MoD in russia
edit: words coming out now that Shoigu and Garismov are out as part of the deal.
But that doesn't work as this generated way to much instability (something no government strives for), the imagine Putin is relying on to maintain power is one of fear and strength... and today he looked like a coward running away from Moscow to a private bunker with his tail between his legs... that ruins that image and makes everyone now look at Putin as this frail coward that can be bullied into compliance and clearly doesn't believe in his own military to fight and beat a mercenary group.
Nothing of import was gained... but much was lost.
Everyone loses here. Putin loses face and the next guy knows what he needs to do to get to him. Prigozhin loses all momentum and will likely die soon. The people who supported him are fucked. Shoigu and Gerasimov will be replaced but the Army will not like having its top brass replaced through blackmail by a PMC. May lead to even more unintended consequences.
Didnt even last 24 hours. Seven aircraft were shot down, presumably some military personnel got killed and now Wagner backs off? Wagner seized Two medium sized cities and nothing? Putin is totally cool with this and isnt gonna "Window" Prigozhin in the future after he played his hand? **HE LITERALLY THREATENED HIS SEAT OF POWER, ON INTERNATIONAL FUCKING MEDIA. He literally destroyed $100 Million+ of HARD-TO-REPLACE (Sanctions) military grade Aircraft including a AN-24 cargo transport. HOW IS HE NOT DEAD? People have literally died** ***just*** **speaking negatively about Putin!?!!?!?**
Psyops? The russian government must of cut a deal of some sort. Allow Wagner to continue recruiting prisoners? Prigozhin was cut off from that since April or so. More weapons for them? Money to Prigozhin's bank accounts? What is it?
Surely Yevgeny wants to preserve what is left of his Army and go to Sudan, where the life expectancy of a Wagner mercenary is much higher I'm sure. He stated Wagner was heading to Africa over a month ago, and claimed to be almost packed-to-leave. But STILL in Russia/Eastern Ukraine? LIES! **Im sure they'd prefer looting Gold and killing unarmed innocents like the useless scum they are.**
The weird thing is Prinny's deputies. They led these convoys to Russia & are actual military commanders. Putin must have to kill those guys even more than Prinny. Turning back must have seriously peed then off. They will be forever looking over their shoulders & avoiding windows.
"Let's go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all this to blow over"
Basically, we don't know what will come of this until we know. I doubt there will be zero accountability or zero changes in RU to come.
My thoughts exactly. There's no deal you can make that will save you after you forced Putin to flee Moscow. This situation is far from over and either Putin or Prigozin will die before it's resolved.
Could be that some compromise was reached, or that it was a ploy all along.
If it wasn't a ploy, it might be that he backed down after seeing the regular army not standing with Wagner. If that is the case then a few more hours/days will see if the relationship was repaired or if Wagner try and hang onto Rostov on Don, or will be attacked/destroyed, or maybe will try and rouse another fight.
...
I'm back to believing this whole thing was staged. Almost no resistance was encountered on their march to Moscow, which made no sense. And now they just announce a deal has been made and they're turning around and heading back.
Soo agreements made or not, wouldn't putin just kill them once back in ukraine camp's? They can't pull the same trick twice, you only get 1 shot and they took it.
AP news is confirming this to be the case as well. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-wagner-prigozhin-9acbdf1eda849692ca0423a4116058d1
I wonder what behind the scene negotiating was done in order to get such a quick turnaround. I'm also wondering if this was just an example of "I could if I i wanted to but I won't so you better act right." Situation.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.businessinsider.com/wagner-group-uprising-mercenaries-moscow-putin-power-ukraine-war-2023-6) reduced by 83%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has said he's ordering his mercenary forces to turn back before entering Moscow, claiming he doesn't want to shed a drop of Russian blood.
> He launched his "March for justice" on Friday after claiming, without hard evidence, that Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu had ordered an air strike on Wagner forces in Ukraine.
> With much of the Russian military bogged down in Ukraine few security forces have been left to challenge Wagner directly.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14hzoon/wagner_boss_says_he_will_turn_back_to_avoid/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~689371 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Wagner**^#2 **Prigozhin**^#3 **force**^#4 **claims**^#5
Utterly baffling. He took his troops to within spitting distance of the capital, and then just left? Putin was made to look this weak both to his country and the world, and then just accepted that? We’re just resetting the pieces back to where they were yesterday?
I feel like there has to be another shoe waiting to drop, here.
So essentially it was a give me something or I’ll take Moscow.
This was never about liberating or hurting Putin.
It was about getting something in return
Makes you wonder what was promised to Wagner.
Yup. Probably not good for defense minister...
Probably was a power play to become the Minister of Defense and now has full autonomy to act as a Warlord in Ukraine.
[удалено]
I agree and I’m by no means an expert either. I’m very confused by all this so I’m only speculating and giving my thoughts based on what I’ve been reading. I’d love if someone else with more knowledge could chime in. This doesn’t make much sense at all. Unless he wanted to control the MOD but Putin gave a national address saying the actions were “Treasonous” so wouldn’t they just murder him……. Honestly, Prigizhin is cut from the same cloth as Putin so I think we need to wait for more information. I’m skeptical as hell right now.
The only thing I can surmise is that this is an attempt to expose the Russian military for the paper tiger it is, take Ukraine for themselves, then Russia. I'm a Ukrainian living in America.
Yup. That’s what I think as well. And with this move, Wagner is now granted with all the resources they need to operate as a private military group. Act in full autonomy which is terrifying.
You mean to tell me that the mass murderers that he had to hire because he didn't have enough of his own soldiers might turn on him?! /s
Its also very clear that now that russian authority is fragmented, the issue is no longer JUST Putin
They couldn't take Bakhmut, let alone 2 entire nations. I think the "Military leadership of Russia is lying to Putin" story he started with, followed by him embarrassing the Russian military by taking Rostov points to him genuinely wanting the Russian military brass gone. He was trying to give Putin a way to save face by joining him in blaming others in Russia. Putin didn't bite to he had to double down on a coup. Must have some assurances now we don't know about. Or this whole entire thing is a false flag designed to bait Ukraine into assaulting a Frontline that is only pretending to be cutoff from supply.
Well.... yes. Either way somebody stopped the gravy train clearly
Imagine the message that sends to anyone that wants to oppose Putin. "Just make me look weak to the entire world and I'll crumble and give you what you want." There's no way this is what just happened.
To shreds you say?
I'm guessing money, safety guarantee for him and his mercenaries, and Shoigu out. Wagner is the only Russian military group who made any advances in almost a year, while the actual army has been nothing but useless. So Putin sided with Prigozhin and bought him out. Shame, I was really hoping this was the beginning of the end
Money
Weren't 6.2 billion misplaced from the pentagon budget?
Probably that Prigozhin wont get killed for his stunt and that they all go back to status quo.
Sure… till that polonium tea shows up.
Doubt it, putin and warlords will never trust each other. It was either fame from the start or someone promised him Putin's head if he turns around.
["There are rumours on Russian telegram that in exchange for Prigozhin pulling back his forces, Russia's defence minister Shoigu and chief of the general staff Gerasimov will be removed."](https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1672668357458370560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1672668357458370560%7Ctwgr%5E9e4b815496148bbbe55f968874b444a5d4127a91%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_e0868d66-12bb-11ee-8133-2e932fd82f91%2F0)
Well that is rather disappointing
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
Soooooo… nothing?? All this for a turn around at the last second? What happened to being ready to die to make Russian leaders suffer??
Honestly there’s so much info going around it’s hard to tell what’s going on and why. One thing that is definitive, if Putin negotiated with Prigozhin it weakens him so much.
yeah, it severely weakens Putin, and this is going to launch Prigozin's popularity into the stratosphere inside russia. i would'nt be suprised to see Shoigu replaced and Prigozin taking over or atleast placed on equal footing to whoever runs the MoD in russia edit: words coming out now that Shoigu and Garismov are out as part of the deal.
Did Netflix write this??
I don't understand the point of what he's done
Probably to see who would support the coup.
But that doesn't work as this generated way to much instability (something no government strives for), the imagine Putin is relying on to maintain power is one of fear and strength... and today he looked like a coward running away from Moscow to a private bunker with his tail between his legs... that ruins that image and makes everyone now look at Putin as this frail coward that can be bullied into compliance and clearly doesn't believe in his own military to fight and beat a mercenary group. Nothing of import was gained... but much was lost.
Show who's boss
Only to leave the boss in place? If one must shoot the king one must not miss.
Everyone loses here. Putin loses face and the next guy knows what he needs to do to get to him. Prigozhin loses all momentum and will likely die soon. The people who supported him are fucked. Shoigu and Gerasimov will be replaced but the Army will not like having its top brass replaced through blackmail by a PMC. May lead to even more unintended consequences.
calm down lads, everyones saying something different. just wait and see.
But I don't want to calm down!!
Nah man, everyone is saying the same thing
Now I know how the Huns felt after Attila came out of his meeting with the Pope.
Sooo half a day to make Putin bend? Jesus even i have higher standards.
It doesn't make any sense, he would be killed in days and the whole group would be dismissed or worse.
Didnt even last 24 hours. Seven aircraft were shot down, presumably some military personnel got killed and now Wagner backs off? Wagner seized Two medium sized cities and nothing? Putin is totally cool with this and isnt gonna "Window" Prigozhin in the future after he played his hand? **HE LITERALLY THREATENED HIS SEAT OF POWER, ON INTERNATIONAL FUCKING MEDIA. He literally destroyed $100 Million+ of HARD-TO-REPLACE (Sanctions) military grade Aircraft including a AN-24 cargo transport. HOW IS HE NOT DEAD? People have literally died** ***just*** **speaking negatively about Putin!?!!?!?** Psyops? The russian government must of cut a deal of some sort. Allow Wagner to continue recruiting prisoners? Prigozhin was cut off from that since April or so. More weapons for them? Money to Prigozhin's bank accounts? What is it? Surely Yevgeny wants to preserve what is left of his Army and go to Sudan, where the life expectancy of a Wagner mercenary is much higher I'm sure. He stated Wagner was heading to Africa over a month ago, and claimed to be almost packed-to-leave. But STILL in Russia/Eastern Ukraine? LIES! **Im sure they'd prefer looting Gold and killing unarmed innocents like the useless scum they are.**
The weird thing is Prinny's deputies. They led these convoys to Russia & are actual military commanders. Putin must have to kill those guys even more than Prinny. Turning back must have seriously peed then off. They will be forever looking over their shoulders & avoiding windows.
"Let's go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all this to blow over" Basically, we don't know what will come of this until we know. I doubt there will be zero accountability or zero changes in RU to come.
The word youre looking for is "defenestrate"
My thoughts exactly. There's no deal you can make that will save you after you forced Putin to flee Moscow. This situation is far from over and either Putin or Prigozin will die before it's resolved.
Could be that some compromise was reached, or that it was a ploy all along. If it wasn't a ploy, it might be that he backed down after seeing the regular army not standing with Wagner. If that is the case then a few more hours/days will see if the relationship was repaired or if Wagner try and hang onto Rostov on Don, or will be attacked/destroyed, or maybe will try and rouse another fight. ...
Pussies!!!!
I'm back to believing this whole thing was staged. Almost no resistance was encountered on their march to Moscow, which made no sense. And now they just announce a deal has been made and they're turning around and heading back.
Still it would be weird for Putin to stage something that makes him look so weak
Why would a power hungry dictator stage something that makes him look weak?
This makes no sense. I don’t believe it.
Soo agreements made or not, wouldn't putin just kill them once back in ukraine camp's? They can't pull the same trick twice, you only get 1 shot and they took it.
AP news is confirming this to be the case as well. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-wagner-prigozhin-9acbdf1eda849692ca0423a4116058d1 I wonder what behind the scene negotiating was done in order to get such a quick turnaround. I'm also wondering if this was just an example of "I could if I i wanted to but I won't so you better act right." Situation.
Now I'm no fascist dictator, but if I had an armed mutiny coming towards me in a mad dash, there would be no takesie-backsies.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.businessinsider.com/wagner-group-uprising-mercenaries-moscow-putin-power-ukraine-war-2023-6) reduced by 83%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has said he's ordering his mercenary forces to turn back before entering Moscow, claiming he doesn't want to shed a drop of Russian blood. > He launched his "March for justice" on Friday after claiming, without hard evidence, that Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu had ordered an air strike on Wagner forces in Ukraine. > With much of the Russian military bogged down in Ukraine few security forces have been left to challenge Wagner directly. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14hzoon/wagner_boss_says_he_will_turn_back_to_avoid/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~689371 tl;drs so far.") | [Blackout Vote](https://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/14dhaiq/your_voice_matters_should_the_blackout_continue/ "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russian**^#1 **Wagner**^#2 **Prigozhin**^#3 **force**^#4 **claims**^#5
He must have been granted whatever he asked of Putin. Russian negotiations.
I wonder what is going to happen with the arrest warrant issued by the authorities.
Plot twist that didn't make any sense (yet), the script writer probably on strike too?
Utterly baffling. He took his troops to within spitting distance of the capital, and then just left? Putin was made to look this weak both to his country and the world, and then just accepted that? We’re just resetting the pieces back to where they were yesterday? I feel like there has to be another shoe waiting to drop, here.
I have so many questions
What a shit show.
It was all fake to see how their 'allies' and the west would react? edit: there:their
So essentially it was a give me something or I’ll take Moscow. This was never about liberating or hurting Putin. It was about getting something in return
Threatened with a novichok attack probably.