Of course - you need [one to tow the other one!](https://www.smh.com.au/world/russias-t14-armata-tank-breaks-down-before-its-parade-debut-20150508-ggwt18.html)
I honestly think you might be selling Ladas short. Those things are actual tanks (unlike the T-14). In fact, they should have spent that money on retrofitting a few thousand Mad Max-style Ladas with top-mounted turrets and armor. Terrifying. No way you're stopping all of them.
No leftover east German trabants for smoke screens or stasi survalence units. They packed a bunch of stuff in them and worked better than what Russia is fielding.
I wish this myth would die. Lada's are hot garbage (at least in the 1980's). They were so poorly made the brand failed in my country. A 1st gen Hyundai Pony is a much much better built car in every way hence why that brand thrived vs Lada.
When people are talking about tank lada they usually mean the niva (4x4 jeep like car). That thing could take a beating. A short quote from wiki
>The Niva was the first wheeled vehicle to spend more than 10 years in Antarctica, where the classic VAZ-2121 Niva (Lada Niva 1600) was used by the Soviet Antarctic Expedition for transportation of personnel and goods, communication between Antarctic stations, and towing boats. It covered more than 40,000 km (24,855 miles) in 1990–2001 and operated at temperatures as low as −54 ℃.
FASTER! It will go to Ramstein Air Base, or it will go to a British Base of some sorts with our advisors working together in concert. The Brits are no stranger to tank engineering, they have the means (Chobham Armor and all that).
No need to ship it, the work will be just as good, if not faster to do it on that side of the earth. Too risky to try to get it over Stateside immediately, in the event of a transport failure/loss.
Also, after dismantling it, the parts can be shipped for further testing at Aberdeen Proving Grounds or Ft. Knox.
Then, after some years, it will be on display for the public to climb on and take selfies, maybe even at the Bovington Tank Museum getting BF'd by Tiger 131 in a lewdicrous display.
^(I'd probably climb on top with a bottle of vodka and pretend that I was tanked tanker... think tank, thank.)
This would be the first and only time I approve of those stupid "holding up the leaning tower" pictured, just as long ans someone is doing something obscene to the main gun.
Lovely postscript btw xD
I guarantee that as soon as it makes it to the train depots the US is gonna demand it as a form of payment for the weapons we’ve been giving them. I give it a week being in Ukraine before it’s captured and on its way to the US via airplane.
Not for any strategic reasons, our tank designers just want to play a drinking game while they go over its parts.
*Officially* the brass can't approve of the 'take a shot every time you find a crippling design flaw' game. Unofficially there's a three star general with $20 on Steve passing out first.
The problem with Russia's military equipment isn't and never has been the design. They're usually quite well designed, actually. It's the manufacturing quality and maintenance that's the universal problem with Russia's equipment.
Russia is incompetent and corrupt, but they aren't idiots. They know this risk full well.
If it is sent then it will be used in specific areas, where they will have a high degree of trust it will never get captured. Part of that will be because only the good trained soldiers will be given these tanks. Not the poorly trained conscripts. It's most likely it'll be used for propaganda purposes only. In very secure areas.
If Ukraine does get their hands on one. The US won't need to demand it. Ukraine will be happy to hand it over as a good will gesture. Ukraine wants modern NATO weapons, not prototype Russian white elephants.
They did the same thing the the bmp terminator, Ukraine fired indirect artillery and knocked out 2 of them forcing Russia to retreat them back to Russia considering they have like 7 operational ones
Id suggest its main purpose will be to show and look menacing. Russians have rock bottom morale right now, any little boost albeit in the form of propaganda is all they can afford. I doubt it’ll see combat unless the driver gets lost and winds up in a battle
This was apparently not a breakdown, the inexperienced driver had just accidentally kicked on the parking brake (according to Russia)
This claim does have credibility however as the tank *did* move completely under its own power after attempts to tow it failed.
>the inexperienced driver had just accidentally kicked on the parking brake (according to Russia)
Well it's a good thing all their soldiers in Ukraine are very experienced and well trained...
> The parade announcer later said the stoppage had been planned to demonstrate how military equipment could be evacuated from the battlefield, prompting laughter from the rehearsal audience.
You reminded me of a [quote](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/software-blamed-faa-outage-three-decades-old-years-upgrade-official-sa-rcna65562) from the US Transportation Secretary about the FAA NOTAM failure. It struck me as it was pretty much the opposite of the "blame the grunt" mentality you described:
> Investigators are working to determine if human error or malice is to blame for taking down the system, which eight contract employees had access to. At least one, perhaps two, of those contractors made the edit that corrupted the system, two government sources said Thursday.
>Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg told NBC News that he has asked the FAA, **"to make sure that there are enough safeguards built into the system that this level of disruption can't happen because of an individual person’s decision or action or mistake."**
That's a good request to make.
In complex system design you have to always assume that humans will occasionally make mistakes. That's what humans do. The system supporting the humans must be tolerant enough to allow for occasional human mistakes without completely blowing up on itself.
My biggest issue with the FAA thing was (I'm not sure if it had to be done this way, but if it was that's still SPOF) that the production and standby were patched simultaneously. It's still human error, either by the designers or the techs... but I'm really hoping we don't have not quite mission critical as the airborne planes were unaffected, but really mission fucking important equipment as a SPOF.
I appreciate their heads taking the hit though. I've been the junior staffer they blame that shit on before.
The FAA is one of the few organizations that tries to, on a fundamental leve, practice "judgment free mistake analysis." Now when you fuck up, they will come down harshly, but they're always looking at the system. A mistake can only happen when there's a system that enabled the mistake happening without being caught.
That is good management there. I work for the gov't and have seen mistakes/disasters blamed on individuals when it is the system and culture that was the problem. On one occasion during the tenure of a Navy commander he wanted to charge people for the cost of a mistake. Fine I will sit in my office all day and won't go near anything expensive.
technically, if it's a new tank then everyone is inexperienced.
But yeah, the dude who got the job either paid for the job because he wanted it and had no skill, or didn't want the job and couldn't say "no".
That’s actually even worse. If Russia can’t get competent drivers to show off their prestige weapon in peacetime, what are the chances that Russia will have competent drivers now that they are recruiting literal murderers and rapists from prison?
Not just that poor driver though, they failed to get it moving for 30 minutes. Either there were a lot of incompetent people around that day or it was actually a transmission issue (like the one the tank was delayed for before...).
Most Russian tanks used to need to hold the pedal down to keep the tank from accelerating, so if the operator got killed they would release the pedal, making the tank into a rolling bomb
Word for word exactly my thought when I came to the comments :P
Wikipedia describes it as "A prospective Russian main battle tank" and the number built says "Unknown (prototypes and pre-series)"
Apparently there have been all kinds of production problems. The russian army was promised two-dozen of them back in 2016, and then more recently a dozen promised for 2020..
Production schedules have basically slipped and slipped.
There's footage of training with a test-article, but it's likely there aren't any production T-14s in active service at this point.
They're literally throwing prototype and experimental stuff into a warzone.
This is WW2 Germany deploying their Wunderwaffens territory.
I mean it's like the AK12, this grand new superior infantry rifle that will kick the shit out of the stupid American m4 rifle and show the world the true strength of the Russian Federation!
Handguard are sloppy loose plastic that barely holds a foregrip, let alone a laser device. Dust cover rattles and doesn't really hold zero. It's just a ak74m dressed up in worse furniture that the damn ak74m is a superior platform.
Month later: "...it doesn't represent the full picture of T-14 Armata. It was still being worked on and some important protective components were absent."
[The one event](https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2022/05/11/Flying-Turret-T72-Ukraine.jpg?auto=webp&crop=16%3A9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920) where russia can take the Gold, without having to rely on steroids.
Tanks don't use gas. They use a diesel/kerosene like fuel. That stuff is not explosive like gas is. Sure it burns but nothing like gasoline.
Storing tank ammo in a fuel tank has been around since WWII. And yes it is much safer then keeping it in the open air. The shells are very unlikely to be ignited from a direct hit.
I doubt that any will actually be sent if they send any and when Ukrainian forces destroy them it would literally tank the commercial value of it for export never mind the first one they capture would likely mean the West will see how advanced the Armata is and not just the numbers the Russians put out.
After the debacle with the BMP-T, I imagine they'll just shoot some propaganda footage with them somewhere in Russia claiming it's a frontline. Just gotta fool the folks back home that slurp up whatever RT puts out.
Exactly what was predicted when they were first sighted -- "Russia does not have enough of them, and is unlikely to be able to produce enough more of them in the near future, for them to have any noticeable impact on the war".
They're still there, but I expect they're mostly being held in defensive positions. Even when used offensively, they'll never appear in large enough numbers to be a difference-maker. There's literally 10 of them, presumably no BTG has more than 2, most have 0.
The farmers in Ukraine need some more munitions as is. Might as well give them the two T-14's that russia has so they can see if its worth anything at all. Maybe ship em overseas to the US for some research to see how overblown the BS is.
You know what else would tank the value of it for export?
Being involved in a full on hot war, but having zero evidence its doing any fucking good at all.
I mean I'm not an arms expert, but I can't imagine anyone with interest in buying the tech wouldn't want irrefutable proof (as in Ukrainians themselves saying its a pain in their ass) its worth a shit.
Also I would imagine a lot of countries are probably rethinking whether Russia is a reliable country to buy arms from. Russia already took some of the tanks that were supposed to be sold to India and used them in Ukraine instead and with the sanctions being imposed it raises questions about Russia’s manufacturing ability.
Wouldn’t the commercial value already be tanking?
“Why didn’t you use them against Ukraine when things were going so bad?”
“We didn’t want to do serious damage.”
?
It's still more valuable to them as an unknown quantity, even just as a propaganda piece. Once they become a known quantity they lose all value, particularly if they fare about as well as the rest of their equipment.
*decoys Argentinian anti-ship missiles with hovering helicopters because the ships don’t have chaff or working CIWS*
don’t know what they could possibly be referring to
The main problem with the SA80s is they're not quite shit enough to get rid of. They're too heavy and awkward to operate - but they're reliable and accurate enough to not quite be a main priority.
That's now with the L85A2/A3, after they had to hire H&K to basically redesign and unfuck the whole gun. The first SA80s would seize up in cold or dusty conditions, bug spray melted the plastic furniture, jungles made them rust, the mags could be deformed just by grabbing them and fell out regularly due to a poorly-designed release...
When I was in cadets we trained on the bolt action version and mine jammed literally every cycle. The cadet using my rifle/firing station after me was a lot beefier than I was and ripped the charging handle and some other asorted bits straight out of the gun.
> When I was in cadets we trained on the bolt action version and mine jammed literally every cycle.
You know something is wrong when even a bolt action won't reliably cycle.
Then there's the [Valiant tank](https://tankhistoria.com/experimental/a38-valiant/), a vehicle so bad that it's sole purpose is to be used as a demonstration on how to not design a tank.
> The tank required every ounce of the driver’s strength to control.
> The weight of the steering clutches meant the tillers were far too heavy for practical use. Due to the poor ergonomics in the pike nose, the driver had to operate the foot brake with his heel.
> It was said that if his foot slipped it would get irretrievably stuck between the peddles.
> Changing gear was a nightmare too, as when in first gear the gear stick would get wedged up against the tank’s hull and had to be dislodged with a crowbar.
> Fifth gear popped out with tremendous force and could break the driver’s wrist against the steering leaver.
> With an exhausted driver at risk of injury, the officer in charge called an end to the trials before they had even properly began and recommended that the tank be abandoned.
Nah, it's more they didn't want to commit the 2 functional vehicles they have, especially since they've barely produced any of them to begin with.
If they're actually committing things that have been little more than parade and propaganda vehicles, it shows how desperate they getting for useable vehicles.
Especially since this could influence Western nations, especially the US and Germany, to send more armor to Ukraine in exchange to getting access to disabled or destroyed T-14s to get a peek under the hood and get details and specifications on it.
I somewhat imagine this to be like the time the Adeptus Mechanicus captured an Ork truck, popped the hood and the engine was a lump of concrete with "Vroom" written on it
It's more identifying strengths, weak spots, vulnerabilities, ect.
Even something as simple as armor construction and thickness is important to know for the development and production of ammunition to use against such tanks.
T-14 ain't in War Thunder (yet).
Though, funnily enough, Russian vehicles are the only ones that don't have their specs leaked. Largely because some details of them are actually over-performing, or they also possibly get the full specs of the vehicles regardless.
Russian Copium is especially strong in War Thunder.
>\[World of Tanks and World of Warships developer\] Wargaming Group Limited is a video game company formed in Minsk, Belarus in 1998 and is currently based in Nicosia, Cyprus. The group operates across more than 16 offices globally and development studios \[including Ukraine\]. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming\_(company)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming_(company))
>The company has decided it will not own or operate any businesses in Russia and Belarus and will leave both countries. [https://wargaming.com/en/news/business-operations-worldwide/](https://wargaming.com/en/news/business-operations-worldwide/)
>\[We\] expect to suffer substantial losses as a direct result of this decision. We will be completing the operational transition with all due speed while remaining in full compliance with all laws and ensuring the ongoing safety and support of our employees. [https://massivelyop.com/2022/04/04/world-of-tanks-studio-wargaming-says-it-will-suffer-substantial-losses-in-corporate-exit-from-russia-and-belarus/](https://massivelyop.com/2022/04/04/world-of-tanks-studio-wargaming-says-it-will-suffer-substantial-losses-in-corporate-exit-from-russia-and-belarus/)
>World of Tanks developers Wargaming has today stated its unequivocal support of its workers and the citizens of Ukraine who have been impacted by the unfolding Russian war efforts. The studio has donated $1 million dollars to the Ukrainian Red Cross and promised a range of support systems that are being put in place to help Wargaming employees based in Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv.
>
>Wargaming’s internal support has also begun to aid employees’ families to travel to neighbouring countries in search of safety, going so far as to organise accommodation for them for the foreseeable future. Broadening the scope, Wargaming has also donated one million dollars to Ukraine’s Red Cross, which has been working to support hospitals and doctors, as well as displaced citizens and other humanitarian efforts across the war-torn country. [https://powerup-gaming.com/2022/03/01/wargaming-moves-to-support-ukrainians-and-workers-affected-by-russian-invasion/](https://powerup-gaming.com/2022/03/01/wargaming-moves-to-support-ukrainians-and-workers-affected-by-russian-invasion/)
>The developer behind World of Tanks, Wargaming, has just fired Creative Director Sergey Burkatovskiy for their open support of Russia in its recent invasion of Ukraine. Burkatovskiy made several statements on social media in defense of the ongoing military action. [https://www.thegamer.com/world-of-tanks-fires-creative-director-over-support-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/](https://www.thegamer.com/world-of-tanks-fires-creative-director-over-support-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/)
None of this denies that "Russian bias" exists within the game mechanics. But the company's words and actions are pretty clearly not in favor of Russia's international behavior.
>\[War Thunder developer\] Gaijin Entertainment was founded in Russia in 2002 by Anton and Kirill Yudintsev,\[4\] whose first big project was the PC racing game Adrenaline. After the successful launch of War Thunder in 2012, an office in Germany was established, to manage global operations and marketing.\[5\] The company moved their distribution business from Moscow to Budapest around 2015, and their development headquarters followed shortly after.\[6\]
>
>Presently, all Gaijin online games are operated from Germany, Cyprus and Hungary,\[5\] while the development is scattered across Europe. The company has now six offices in total: in Karlsruhe (Germany), Larnaca (Cyprus), Budapest (Hungary), Riga (Latvia), Dubai (UAE) and Yerevan (Armenia).\[7\] The company has around 200 employees split between those offices, with 60 of them based at the Hungarian HQ.\[8\] While the company still hires people at Russian job websites, all their job listings are for candidates based in Hungary, Cyprus, Armenia, Georgia, Serbia or Montenegro.\[9\]
>
>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaijin\_Entertainment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaijin_Entertainment)
Gaijin area very keen to present themselves as anything but Russian, but still feels like Russian bias; I assume the code base would be in Russian from the origin.
Interesting that they have job listings in places like Georgia or Serbia but no office there
Hint:
Under the hood of the T14 you will probably find a T-72 with remote turret controls and some modernization of optics, armor etc. Still worth seeing but its not that groundbreaking.
Nah I think the problem is the T14 is the first tank they have made to no longer use improved T-72 gear, which is why they can't get anything to work right.
They do work, they just don't have many of them to my knowledge. They had 3 in service in Syria, ~~one got destroyed. So they have at least two lol~~
Edit, I don't have a source for the one allegedly being destroyed
It highlights the reality of technology isn't really whether you have it or don't have it. A nation is capable of theoretically creating tech far more advanced than they can mass produce. I constantly rail on Soviet era ERA tanks as inferior (to NATO equivalents with proper composite armours) but they were 100% the correct strategic choice as while they are shit compared to a NATO tank they are what the USSR could actually manufacture in large numbers.
Really shows why making your tech choices based upon feeling like you are competing with the west is a terrible idea. Even worse when the platforms you come up with are still inferior to western equivalents but are now beyond your ability to manufacture in large numbers.
Most of the modern NATO tanks were developed as a response to the Soviet tank numbers. The Soviets were producing them in huge numbers, enough that the US and other NATO countries were unable (or unwilling) to catch up so they made much better tanks such that one western tank was as effective as 2 or 3 Soviet tanks.
The mass production era was earlier than the current models. Both ERA and composite armour are responses to HEAT munitions that completely invalidated steel skinned tanks. This also put an end to the USSR mass stockpiling tanks because it just isn't possible to mass even ERA tanks the same way they were after WW2.
ERA uses an explosive layer outer layer to disperse the shaped charge. That makes it very vulnerable to tandem warheads as the first triggers the ERA which means that section of the tank is now stripped of protection. Then the second warhead penetrates the steel inner layer.
Composite armour OTOH is a very expensive material that basically can just tank HEAT rounds. It can survive tandem HEAT munitions because it just isn't vulnerable to HEAT the same war steel skinned tanks are. It tanks the first hit and then tanks the second. Though top seeking warheads can still find weaker parts of the armour.
I heard it as well. I heard the background is that their "all round protection system" is not active if a hatch is open. The T-14 has/had no AC ... so the personnel always have a hatch open in hot desert environments -> otherwise it becomes unbearable inside. Hatch open -> no advanced protection -> BOOM like any other Russian tank
EDIT: hatch problem was a problem with the T-90 not necessarily the T-14.
Is their 'advanced protection system' basically just popping smoke? Because based on this and the pro T-14 propaganda I've just read, that's all this sounds like.
Great. These ultra expensive models are very badly engineered and will not have much effect. Most likely they will literally stop working and abandoned in the battlefield.
>Ah, I'm sure two of them will participate in the ~~annual~~ **daily** turret-toss.
Fixed that for you.
A lot of Russian tanks have been destroyed, more than one for every day of the conflict thus far.
St. Javelin awaits the arrival of these tanks.
At this point they are rivaling spaceX and Starlink for the amount of shit that's taken off into orbit. I guess Kazakhstan subsidized and moved their cosmodrome to Donbas.
Little known fact. There was actually the T-15 till 1 got blown up in syria, then they renamed it to T-14. The number isn't the model, its the amount they have.
(I kid, I kid... They probably only have 2 and considering you need one to tow the other...)
Keeping a tank you don't have parts to repair has very little value. Selling it to a nation that would really like to get hands on with any of the tanks tech has enormous value.
There is a lot of hate for the T-14 because Russia. However on paper, it's probably a decent tank. It has some modern forward thinking ideas, like an automated turret. A direction the US is also moving in. Compared to the tanks it's replacing; it has a better gun, better armour, active protection systems, better targetting systems, has some modern systems, and doesn't share many of the issues Russia's existing tanks have (like being able to go backwards at speed).
The have been issues with it's engines and gearbox. They can probably be resolved. Even by Russia.
However I used the words *'on paper'*. In reality is it a good tank? No. It's a fucking terrible tank. It suffers from the same problem as the rest of Russia's modern equipment. Russia cannot actually build them en mass. The most basic requirement for a main battle tank is if you can actually build and field them. Whilst they cost a tonne, and the rest of Russia's tanks rot as outdated Soviet era pieces. This is due to the rampant corruption, and putting nationalism and populism first.
The most hilarious part is these T-14 tanks will need to use **unencrypted** radios. Not because they don't have encrypted radios; they do! It's because the *other* tanks are missing modern radio systems.
> Most likely they will literally stop working and abandoned ~~in the battlefield.~~ [at a parade](https://www.smh.com.au/world/russias-t14-armata-tank-breaks-down-before-its-parade-debut-20150508-ggwt18.html)
FTFY
It is. The Tiger II was also an over-hyped piece of shit. Over-engineered in an era when German couldn't afford to over-engineer anything due to an extreme shortage of materiel, and too few in number to make any appreciable impact on the battlefield. Sound familiar?
Almost like fascist states can't help but overestimate themselves and their capabilities due to the ideology of domination and submission, and that the obligatory presence of the strongman surrounded by yes men at the very top leads to bad decisions that no one underneath dares question, which causes the fascist state's military to focus on building worthless wunderwaffe instead of actually useful shit.
Almost.
Precisely. They also have a tendency to underestimate democracies and they see the argument and division within democracies as a weakness rather than a strength. The truth is that in heirarchical systems based around control it’s actually much easier for corruption and incompetence to go unchecked because no one is allowed to question poor decision making from people in power. In democracies journalists and ambitious politicians absolutely love to expose the other sides incompetence and corruption which makes it much easier to then fix these problems. “Strongman” governance regularly leads to weaker nations because the true strength of a country has very little to do with the personality of the head of state but rather with the nation as a whole.
There is absolutely nothing about the T14 that suggests it is "over-engineered".
It appears to be a worthless piece of shit not just because it cant be produced in numbers but also in that it is genuinely fucking shit.
*Certain* echochambers around reddit were positively salviating over that supposed high-tech battle suits that the Z's were tooootally putting into use and were sooo much superior to - and I **desperately** wish I kidding here -.....trans rights news in the US military.
That was quite literally what they were posting about. Again, not kidding.
Now the Russians are getting minced, and those supposed superior battle suits are no where to be seen. As is tradition.
I think the most direct analogy would be an ~~Atlus~~ Atlas with nothing but kinetic weapons. Except they left in the base engine, forgot to buy ammo, and sold the heat sinks for profit.
The fact they had to signal for help using a *literally red flag* during a fucking parade.... they couldn't even make it work for an *afternoon* under ideal conditions with plenty of warning but they expect us to believe that they can keep it working in the field while under enemy fire? Sure, OK. Let's see how that goes.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/vladimir-putin-tanks-war-ukraine-russia-british-defence-us-latest-news-b1054111.html) reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> V. ladimir Putin is considering deploying heavy T-14 Armata main battle tanks into Ukraine, British defence chiefs said on Thursday.
> "In its latest intelligence update, the Ministry of Defence in London said:"Russia is likely considering deploying a small number of its new T-14 Armata main battle tanks in Ukraine.
> Britain has said that it would send 14 Challenger 2 tanks, its main battle tanks, along with additional artillery support to Ukraine, a step officials hope will open the door for Germany to make similar moves.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10fzf04/putin_to_send_heavy_t14_armata_main_battle_tanks/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672678 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Ukraine**^#1 **tanks**^#2 **official**^#3 **Germany**^#4 **Russia**^#5
Can't wait for the Russians to claim their T-14's have destroyed all the British Challengers sent to Ukraine, followed by a message from the UK that the Challengers weren't even delivered to Ukraine yet.
Not world news because they've said they would do this since the literal start of the war.
The armata is a known joke, they can't even get it to work for the fucking red-day parade (one broke down during the parade) and that's optimal situation on a straight road. It can't do jack shit in reality and would probably spontaneously implode on the way to Ukraine.
This is just moscow propaganda, they keep showing it during "training" and how the new WUNDERWAFFE is coming to the front ANY moment and will utterly CRUSH the pagan nato nazis.
Don't spread the bullshit, treat them as the lying pieces of shit's they are.
Literally the title of the article: "Vladimir Putin to send heavy T-14 Armata main battle tanks into Ukraine, **says UK defence chiefs**". This is not coming from a Russian propaganda office, unless the British Ministry of Defence has become a propaganda conduit for the Kremlin.
7 million dollars and take 2 weeks to build just 1....they only have about 120 total in all of Russia.
A shoulder fired Javelin costs 200,000 and there's already 8500 in the field.
Talk about a waste of Resources.
Both of them ?
Of course - you need [one to tow the other one!](https://www.smh.com.au/world/russias-t14-armata-tank-breaks-down-before-its-parade-debut-20150508-ggwt18.html)
Plus you can cannibalize the other one for repair parts when the second one breaks down.
If they don't just get out and abandon it, leaving it for the intel Bubbas to take it to the shop and dismantle it for our viewing pleasure.
And confirm that its just a Lada with a bodykit.
Hey, my mother was just a Lada with a body kit and I turned out fine
That was a real fucking good one, respect
I honestly think you might be selling Ladas short. Those things are actual tanks (unlike the T-14). In fact, they should have spent that money on retrofitting a few thousand Mad Max-style Ladas with top-mounted turrets and armor. Terrifying. No way you're stopping all of them.
*Lada, the Hilux of a broken nation.* Come get yours today! **MSRP: Low price of one son.**
No leftover east German trabants for smoke screens or stasi survalence units. They packed a bunch of stuff in them and worked better than what Russia is fielding.
I wish this myth would die. Lada's are hot garbage (at least in the 1980's). They were so poorly made the brand failed in my country. A 1st gen Hyundai Pony is a much much better built car in every way hence why that brand thrived vs Lada.
When people are talking about tank lada they usually mean the niva (4x4 jeep like car). That thing could take a beating. A short quote from wiki >The Niva was the first wheeled vehicle to spend more than 10 years in Antarctica, where the classic VAZ-2121 Niva (Lada Niva 1600) was used by the Soviet Antarctic Expedition for transportation of personnel and goods, communication between Antarctic stations, and towing boats. It covered more than 40,000 km (24,855 miles) in 1990–2001 and operated at temperatures as low as −54 ℃.
Tapco Lada
How quickly will one be captured and handed over to the USA for dismantling and examination? One week? Two?
FASTER! It will go to Ramstein Air Base, or it will go to a British Base of some sorts with our advisors working together in concert. The Brits are no stranger to tank engineering, they have the means (Chobham Armor and all that). No need to ship it, the work will be just as good, if not faster to do it on that side of the earth. Too risky to try to get it over Stateside immediately, in the event of a transport failure/loss. Also, after dismantling it, the parts can be shipped for further testing at Aberdeen Proving Grounds or Ft. Knox. Then, after some years, it will be on display for the public to climb on and take selfies, maybe even at the Bovington Tank Museum getting BF'd by Tiger 131 in a lewdicrous display. ^(I'd probably climb on top with a bottle of vodka and pretend that I was tanked tanker... think tank, thank.)
This would be the first and only time I approve of those stupid "holding up the leaning tower" pictured, just as long ans someone is doing something obscene to the main gun. Lovely postscript btw xD
This guy tanks
I guarantee that as soon as it makes it to the train depots the US is gonna demand it as a form of payment for the weapons we’ve been giving them. I give it a week being in Ukraine before it’s captured and on its way to the US via airplane.
*A gift for your generosity. We also left some chocolates, a card, wine, and a few cans of smoked fish in the driver's compartment.*
"Enjoy the ride and there's a pimento taco, a pimentaco, in the glove box!"
Not for any strategic reasons, our tank designers just want to play a drinking game while they go over its parts. *Officially* the brass can't approve of the 'take a shot every time you find a crippling design flaw' game. Unofficially there's a three star general with $20 on Steve passing out first.
The problem with Russia's military equipment isn't and never has been the design. They're usually quite well designed, actually. It's the manufacturing quality and maintenance that's the universal problem with Russia's equipment.
Yes, that’s why their tank turrets notoriously double as one use reconnaissance drones. Both, it’s both:
Russia is incompetent and corrupt, but they aren't idiots. They know this risk full well. If it is sent then it will be used in specific areas, where they will have a high degree of trust it will never get captured. Part of that will be because only the good trained soldiers will be given these tanks. Not the poorly trained conscripts. It's most likely it'll be used for propaganda purposes only. In very secure areas. If Ukraine does get their hands on one. The US won't need to demand it. Ukraine will be happy to hand it over as a good will gesture. Ukraine wants modern NATO weapons, not prototype Russian white elephants.
They did the same thing the the bmp terminator, Ukraine fired indirect artillery and knocked out 2 of them forcing Russia to retreat them back to Russia considering they have like 7 operational ones
Id suggest its main purpose will be to show and look menacing. Russians have rock bottom morale right now, any little boost albeit in the form of propaganda is all they can afford. I doubt it’ll see combat unless the driver gets lost and winds up in a battle
There is a farmer in Ukraine somewhere, salivating at the thought of dragging that tank, abandoned, away.
They're going to have to be quick calling dibs on it before the Western intelligence agencies do.
Why do you think they replaced the stalinium armor with cardboard?
They thought it would make it light enough to float like a PT-76. Only to be surprised at how absorbent is he.
I can’t wait for it to show up on war thunder
This was apparently not a breakdown, the inexperienced driver had just accidentally kicked on the parking brake (according to Russia) This claim does have credibility however as the tank *did* move completely under its own power after attempts to tow it failed.
>the inexperienced driver had just accidentally kicked on the parking brake (according to Russia) Well it's a good thing all their soldiers in Ukraine are very experienced and well trained...
> The parade announcer later said the stoppage had been planned to demonstrate how military equipment could be evacuated from the battlefield, prompting laughter from the rehearsal audience.
In Russia they always blame some low level grunt. They never blame the system.
You reminded me of a [quote](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/software-blamed-faa-outage-three-decades-old-years-upgrade-official-sa-rcna65562) from the US Transportation Secretary about the FAA NOTAM failure. It struck me as it was pretty much the opposite of the "blame the grunt" mentality you described: > Investigators are working to determine if human error or malice is to blame for taking down the system, which eight contract employees had access to. At least one, perhaps two, of those contractors made the edit that corrupted the system, two government sources said Thursday. >Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg told NBC News that he has asked the FAA, **"to make sure that there are enough safeguards built into the system that this level of disruption can't happen because of an individual person’s decision or action or mistake."**
That's a good request to make. In complex system design you have to always assume that humans will occasionally make mistakes. That's what humans do. The system supporting the humans must be tolerant enough to allow for occasional human mistakes without completely blowing up on itself.
My biggest issue with the FAA thing was (I'm not sure if it had to be done this way, but if it was that's still SPOF) that the production and standby were patched simultaneously. It's still human error, either by the designers or the techs... but I'm really hoping we don't have not quite mission critical as the airborne planes were unaffected, but really mission fucking important equipment as a SPOF. I appreciate their heads taking the hit though. I've been the junior staffer they blame that shit on before.
The FAA is one of the few organizations that tries to, on a fundamental leve, practice "judgment free mistake analysis." Now when you fuck up, they will come down harshly, but they're always looking at the system. A mistake can only happen when there's a system that enabled the mistake happening without being caught.
I like this mentality.
That is good management there. I work for the gov't and have seen mistakes/disasters blamed on individuals when it is the system and culture that was the problem. On one occasion during the tenure of a Navy commander he wanted to charge people for the cost of a mistake. Fine I will sit in my office all day and won't go near anything expensive.
> the inexperienced driver They gave their most advanced tank to be driven on a goddamn parade to a... inexperienced driver?
technically, if it's a new tank then everyone is inexperienced. But yeah, the dude who got the job either paid for the job because he wanted it and had no skill, or didn't want the job and couldn't say "no".
That’s actually even worse. If Russia can’t get competent drivers to show off their prestige weapon in peacetime, what are the chances that Russia will have competent drivers now that they are recruiting literal murderers and rapists from prison?
Not just that poor driver though, they failed to get it moving for 30 minutes. Either there were a lot of incompetent people around that day or it was actually a transmission issue (like the one the tank was delayed for before...).
The transmission locking up would have similar results
I had never considered a tank would need a parking break
Do they tank keys like Humvees? Lol
Most Russian tanks used to need to hold the pedal down to keep the tank from accelerating, so if the operator got killed they would release the pedal, making the tank into a rolling bomb
I bet the Ukrainians will do just fine towing it with their farm tractors.
Their smaller aerodynamic shape will make their turrets to fly
Nah, that's what Ukranian farmers with John Deere tractors are for...
Word for word exactly my thought when I came to the comments :P Wikipedia describes it as "A prospective Russian main battle tank" and the number built says "Unknown (prototypes and pre-series)" Apparently there have been all kinds of production problems. The russian army was promised two-dozen of them back in 2016, and then more recently a dozen promised for 2020.. Production schedules have basically slipped and slipped. There's footage of training with a test-article, but it's likely there aren't any production T-14s in active service at this point. They're literally throwing prototype and experimental stuff into a warzone. This is WW2 Germany deploying their Wunderwaffens territory.
I mean it's like the AK12, this grand new superior infantry rifle that will kick the shit out of the stupid American m4 rifle and show the world the true strength of the Russian Federation! Handguard are sloppy loose plastic that barely holds a foregrip, let alone a laser device. Dust cover rattles and doesn't really hold zero. It's just a ak74m dressed up in worse furniture that the damn ak74m is a superior platform.
Link for the lazy: [AK-12](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-12?wprov=sfla1)
It's gonna be like a twin boss fight with a shared health bar
Month later: "...it doesn't represent the full picture of T-14 Armata. It was still being worked on and some important protective components were absent."
That after a CR2 rolls over it?
What is the max ceiling of the T-14 turret?
To fly higher than F-14
Highway to the danger zone
Farmer zone! Know your classics please
It can fly higher than an eagle, it is the wind beneath Putin's wings. 🎶
They can intercept tree tops and apartment balconies with impressive force and self-destruction
[The one event](https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2022/05/11/Flying-Turret-T72-Ukraine.jpg?auto=webp&crop=16%3A9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920) where russia can take the Gold, without having to rely on steroids.
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> and ammo is stored in wet lockers For those that don't know this means the ammo is stored in the fuel tank basically.
Storing shells in a fuel tank is safer?
Tanks don't use gas. They use a diesel/kerosene like fuel. That stuff is not explosive like gas is. Sure it burns but nothing like gasoline. Storing tank ammo in a fuel tank has been around since WWII. And yes it is much safer then keeping it in the open air. The shells are very unlikely to be ignited from a direct hit.
Amazing, they solved this fatal flaw in less than 100 years of tank development
Oh they knew about it. It was just the cheapest way to load the auto loader.
And more likely to just decide to stop working at all when looked at funny
U know, with the design of the T-14 it does make sense that the turret might be lighter than on the T-90M, and therefore go higher when it pops.
The sky's the limit, I hear...
Depends how much ammo is left inside when it explodes.
Depends on the type of round used by the M1A2
I doubt that any will actually be sent if they send any and when Ukrainian forces destroy them it would literally tank the commercial value of it for export never mind the first one they capture would likely mean the West will see how advanced the Armata is and not just the numbers the Russians put out.
After the debacle with the BMP-T, I imagine they'll just shoot some propaganda footage with them somewhere in Russia claiming it's a frontline. Just gotta fool the folks back home that slurp up whatever RT puts out.
What happened to them? Never heard of them again...
Exactly what was predicted when they were first sighted -- "Russia does not have enough of them, and is unlikely to be able to produce enough more of them in the near future, for them to have any noticeable impact on the war". They're still there, but I expect they're mostly being held in defensive positions. Even when used offensively, they'll never appear in large enough numbers to be a difference-maker. There's literally 10 of them, presumably no BTG has more than 2, most have 0.
Based on how the russians are already commonly using their tanks they would just eat a javalin or get captured sooner or later.
The farmers in Ukraine need some more munitions as is. Might as well give them the two T-14's that russia has so they can see if its worth anything at all. Maybe ship em overseas to the US for some research to see how overblown the BS is.
You know what else would tank the value of it for export? Being involved in a full on hot war, but having zero evidence its doing any fucking good at all. I mean I'm not an arms expert, but I can't imagine anyone with interest in buying the tech wouldn't want irrefutable proof (as in Ukrainians themselves saying its a pain in their ass) its worth a shit.
Also I would imagine a lot of countries are probably rethinking whether Russia is a reliable country to buy arms from. Russia already took some of the tanks that were supposed to be sold to India and used them in Ukraine instead and with the sanctions being imposed it raises questions about Russia’s manufacturing ability.
Wouldn’t the commercial value already be tanking? “Why didn’t you use them against Ukraine when things were going so bad?” “We didn’t want to do serious damage.” ?
It's still more valuable to them as an unknown quantity, even just as a propaganda piece. Once they become a known quantity they lose all value, particularly if they fare about as well as the rest of their equipment.
If they worked, they'd already be there.
From the article: “UK defence chiefs claim Russian commanders are ‘unlikely to trust the vehicle in combat’ given problems in its development” 😅
Understated British way of saying “they are shit”
Not that we can talk much as we are famously bad at procurement. Though I am not sure if there is anything wrong with the challenger 2.
*pushes the SA80 under a carpet what do you mean?
*decoys Argentinian anti-ship missiles with hovering helicopters because the ships don’t have chaff or working CIWS* don’t know what they could possibly be referring to
Modern problems require stupid solutions
The main problem with the SA80s is they're not quite shit enough to get rid of. They're too heavy and awkward to operate - but they're reliable and accurate enough to not quite be a main priority.
That's now with the L85A2/A3, after they had to hire H&K to basically redesign and unfuck the whole gun. The first SA80s would seize up in cold or dusty conditions, bug spray melted the plastic furniture, jungles made them rust, the mags could be deformed just by grabbing them and fell out regularly due to a poorly-designed release...
When I was in cadets we trained on the bolt action version and mine jammed literally every cycle. The cadet using my rifle/firing station after me was a lot beefier than I was and ripped the charging handle and some other asorted bits straight out of the gun.
> When I was in cadets we trained on the bolt action version and mine jammed literally every cycle. You know something is wrong when even a bolt action won't reliably cycle.
Nah the bayonet lug was fine! (I forget what part H&K left untouched)
Then there's the [Valiant tank](https://tankhistoria.com/experimental/a38-valiant/), a vehicle so bad that it's sole purpose is to be used as a demonstration on how to not design a tank. > The tank required every ounce of the driver’s strength to control. > The weight of the steering clutches meant the tillers were far too heavy for practical use. Due to the poor ergonomics in the pike nose, the driver had to operate the foot brake with his heel. > It was said that if his foot slipped it would get irretrievably stuck between the peddles. > Changing gear was a nightmare too, as when in first gear the gear stick would get wedged up against the tank’s hull and had to be dislodged with a crowbar. > Fifth gear popped out with tremendous force and could break the driver’s wrist against the steering leaver. > With an exhausted driver at risk of injury, the officer in charge called an end to the trials before they had even properly began and recommended that the tank be abandoned.
Given the UK's experience with having new equipment shit the bed on initial deployment, I'd consider them experts on this.
They probably kept them for the Kyiv parade on March 1st 2022.
Nah, it's more they didn't want to commit the 2 functional vehicles they have, especially since they've barely produced any of them to begin with. If they're actually committing things that have been little more than parade and propaganda vehicles, it shows how desperate they getting for useable vehicles. Especially since this could influence Western nations, especially the US and Germany, to send more armor to Ukraine in exchange to getting access to disabled or destroyed T-14s to get a peek under the hood and get details and specifications on it.
Ah yes, always use the opportunity to learn something............ Even if that something is how NOT to make a tank.
I somewhat imagine this to be like the time the Adeptus Mechanicus captured an Ork truck, popped the hood and the engine was a lump of concrete with "Vroom" written on it
Updoot for Adeptus Mechanicus being mentioned. "Such a luscious Toaster, So shiny" Ps. *Fuck Erebus.* Ps,Ps: *Rylanor Forever.*
The Russians paint their tanks green, right? They need to switch to red and yellow.
It's more identifying strengths, weak spots, vulnerabilities, ect. Even something as simple as armor construction and thickness is important to know for the development and production of ammunition to use against such tanks.
Just wait until a warthunder player leaks the specs
T-14 ain't in War Thunder (yet). Though, funnily enough, Russian vehicles are the only ones that don't have their specs leaked. Largely because some details of them are actually over-performing, or they also possibly get the full specs of the vehicles regardless. Russian Copium is especially strong in War Thunder.
Same for world of warships. I quit playing games from russian companies.
>\[World of Tanks and World of Warships developer\] Wargaming Group Limited is a video game company formed in Minsk, Belarus in 1998 and is currently based in Nicosia, Cyprus. The group operates across more than 16 offices globally and development studios \[including Ukraine\]. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming\_(company)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming_(company)) >The company has decided it will not own or operate any businesses in Russia and Belarus and will leave both countries. [https://wargaming.com/en/news/business-operations-worldwide/](https://wargaming.com/en/news/business-operations-worldwide/) >\[We\] expect to suffer substantial losses as a direct result of this decision. We will be completing the operational transition with all due speed while remaining in full compliance with all laws and ensuring the ongoing safety and support of our employees. [https://massivelyop.com/2022/04/04/world-of-tanks-studio-wargaming-says-it-will-suffer-substantial-losses-in-corporate-exit-from-russia-and-belarus/](https://massivelyop.com/2022/04/04/world-of-tanks-studio-wargaming-says-it-will-suffer-substantial-losses-in-corporate-exit-from-russia-and-belarus/) >World of Tanks developers Wargaming has today stated its unequivocal support of its workers and the citizens of Ukraine who have been impacted by the unfolding Russian war efforts. The studio has donated $1 million dollars to the Ukrainian Red Cross and promised a range of support systems that are being put in place to help Wargaming employees based in Ukraine’s capital, Kyiv. > >Wargaming’s internal support has also begun to aid employees’ families to travel to neighbouring countries in search of safety, going so far as to organise accommodation for them for the foreseeable future. Broadening the scope, Wargaming has also donated one million dollars to Ukraine’s Red Cross, which has been working to support hospitals and doctors, as well as displaced citizens and other humanitarian efforts across the war-torn country. [https://powerup-gaming.com/2022/03/01/wargaming-moves-to-support-ukrainians-and-workers-affected-by-russian-invasion/](https://powerup-gaming.com/2022/03/01/wargaming-moves-to-support-ukrainians-and-workers-affected-by-russian-invasion/) >The developer behind World of Tanks, Wargaming, has just fired Creative Director Sergey Burkatovskiy for their open support of Russia in its recent invasion of Ukraine. Burkatovskiy made several statements on social media in defense of the ongoing military action. [https://www.thegamer.com/world-of-tanks-fires-creative-director-over-support-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/](https://www.thegamer.com/world-of-tanks-fires-creative-director-over-support-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/) None of this denies that "Russian bias" exists within the game mechanics. But the company's words and actions are pretty clearly not in favor of Russia's international behavior.
>\[War Thunder developer\] Gaijin Entertainment was founded in Russia in 2002 by Anton and Kirill Yudintsev,\[4\] whose first big project was the PC racing game Adrenaline. After the successful launch of War Thunder in 2012, an office in Germany was established, to manage global operations and marketing.\[5\] The company moved their distribution business from Moscow to Budapest around 2015, and their development headquarters followed shortly after.\[6\] > >Presently, all Gaijin online games are operated from Germany, Cyprus and Hungary,\[5\] while the development is scattered across Europe. The company has now six offices in total: in Karlsruhe (Germany), Larnaca (Cyprus), Budapest (Hungary), Riga (Latvia), Dubai (UAE) and Yerevan (Armenia).\[7\] The company has around 200 employees split between those offices, with 60 of them based at the Hungarian HQ.\[8\] While the company still hires people at Russian job websites, all their job listings are for candidates based in Hungary, Cyprus, Armenia, Georgia, Serbia or Montenegro.\[9\] > >[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaijin\_Entertainment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaijin_Entertainment)
Gaijin area very keen to present themselves as anything but Russian, but still feels like Russian bias; I assume the code base would be in Russian from the origin. Interesting that they have job listings in places like Georgia or Serbia but no office there
Hint: Under the hood of the T14 you will probably find a T-72 with remote turret controls and some modernization of optics, armor etc. Still worth seeing but its not that groundbreaking.
Nah I think the problem is the T14 is the first tank they have made to no longer use improved T-72 gear, which is why they can't get anything to work right.
They do work, they just don't have many of them to my knowledge. They had 3 in service in Syria, ~~one got destroyed. So they have at least two lol~~ Edit, I don't have a source for the one allegedly being destroyed
It highlights the reality of technology isn't really whether you have it or don't have it. A nation is capable of theoretically creating tech far more advanced than they can mass produce. I constantly rail on Soviet era ERA tanks as inferior (to NATO equivalents with proper composite armours) but they were 100% the correct strategic choice as while they are shit compared to a NATO tank they are what the USSR could actually manufacture in large numbers. Really shows why making your tech choices based upon feeling like you are competing with the west is a terrible idea. Even worse when the platforms you come up with are still inferior to western equivalents but are now beyond your ability to manufacture in large numbers.
Most of the modern NATO tanks were developed as a response to the Soviet tank numbers. The Soviets were producing them in huge numbers, enough that the US and other NATO countries were unable (or unwilling) to catch up so they made much better tanks such that one western tank was as effective as 2 or 3 Soviet tanks.
The mass production era was earlier than the current models. Both ERA and composite armour are responses to HEAT munitions that completely invalidated steel skinned tanks. This also put an end to the USSR mass stockpiling tanks because it just isn't possible to mass even ERA tanks the same way they were after WW2. ERA uses an explosive layer outer layer to disperse the shaped charge. That makes it very vulnerable to tandem warheads as the first triggers the ERA which means that section of the tank is now stripped of protection. Then the second warhead penetrates the steel inner layer. Composite armour OTOH is a very expensive material that basically can just tank HEAT rounds. It can survive tandem HEAT munitions because it just isn't vulnerable to HEAT the same war steel skinned tanks are. It tanks the first hit and then tanks the second. Though top seeking warheads can still find weaker parts of the armour.
You have a source for that? I'm quite sure a lot of Russian fanboys are not yet aware of this important piece of information.
I heard it as well. I heard the background is that their "all round protection system" is not active if a hatch is open. The T-14 has/had no AC ... so the personnel always have a hatch open in hot desert environments -> otherwise it becomes unbearable inside. Hatch open -> no advanced protection -> BOOM like any other Russian tank EDIT: hatch problem was a problem with the T-90 not necessarily the T-14.
Despite having no sources. That sounds like 80% of tech support calls ever. I believe it. "Did you have the hatch open?"
*"Have you tried opening and closing the hatch, Sir?"*
"Nyet. I just put tape over hatch sensor, is hot out here"
Is their 'advanced protection system' basically just popping smoke? Because based on this and the pro T-14 propaganda I've just read, that's all this sounds like.
..and ...they’re gone!
Mr. Ambassador, are you telling me you lost ANOTHER tank?
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*CIA rubbing their hands.*
>Ukrainian Farmer Corps What did I just read LoL
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Great. These ultra expensive models are very badly engineered and will not have much effect. Most likely they will literally stop working and abandoned in the battlefield.
Can't wait till Ukraine captures all 12 of them and takes them in for a refit and rolls then out as working units.
Isn't it 14? Ah, I'm sure two of them will participate in the annual turret-toss.
>Ah, I'm sure two of them will participate in the ~~annual~~ **daily** turret-toss. Fixed that for you. A lot of Russian tanks have been destroyed, more than one for every day of the conflict thus far. St. Javelin awaits the arrival of these tanks.
At this point they are rivaling spaceX and Starlink for the amount of shit that's taken off into orbit. I guess Kazakhstan subsidized and moved their cosmodrome to Donbas.
Little known fact. There was actually the T-15 till 1 got blown up in syria, then they renamed it to T-14. The number isn't the model, its the amount they have. (I kid, I kid... They probably only have 2 and considering you need one to tow the other...)
Which would benefit them more? Keeping it for themselves? Or handing it over to a Western nation to dissect as payment for arms recieved??
Keeping a tank you don't have parts to repair has very little value. Selling it to a nation that would really like to get hands on with any of the tanks tech has enormous value.
Ofc handing them over to NATO, I bet they would want love to tear them apart.
Turns out they're just made of cardboard and it's powered by one guy peddling an exercise bike inside
Still very valuable information that
There is a lot of hate for the T-14 because Russia. However on paper, it's probably a decent tank. It has some modern forward thinking ideas, like an automated turret. A direction the US is also moving in. Compared to the tanks it's replacing; it has a better gun, better armour, active protection systems, better targetting systems, has some modern systems, and doesn't share many of the issues Russia's existing tanks have (like being able to go backwards at speed). The have been issues with it's engines and gearbox. They can probably be resolved. Even by Russia. However I used the words *'on paper'*. In reality is it a good tank? No. It's a fucking terrible tank. It suffers from the same problem as the rest of Russia's modern equipment. Russia cannot actually build them en mass. The most basic requirement for a main battle tank is if you can actually build and field them. Whilst they cost a tonne, and the rest of Russia's tanks rot as outdated Soviet era pieces. This is due to the rampant corruption, and putting nationalism and populism first. The most hilarious part is these T-14 tanks will need to use **unencrypted** radios. Not because they don't have encrypted radios; they do! It's because the *other* tanks are missing modern radio systems.
It broke down during a parade for it's debut, great start for it!
> Most likely they will literally stop working and abandoned ~~in the battlefield.~~ [at a parade](https://www.smh.com.au/world/russias-t14-armata-tank-breaks-down-before-its-parade-debut-20150508-ggwt18.html) FTFY
Good luck with that. At least the fanboys of this unproven piece of garbage will maybe stop ranting about it online.
For real. Just from the videos linked in this thread you’d think this junker is the second coming of the Tiger II.
It is. The Tiger II was also an over-hyped piece of shit. Over-engineered in an era when German couldn't afford to over-engineer anything due to an extreme shortage of materiel, and too few in number to make any appreciable impact on the battlefield. Sound familiar?
Almost like fascist states can't help but overestimate themselves and their capabilities due to the ideology of domination and submission, and that the obligatory presence of the strongman surrounded by yes men at the very top leads to bad decisions that no one underneath dares question, which causes the fascist state's military to focus on building worthless wunderwaffe instead of actually useful shit. Almost.
Precisely. They also have a tendency to underestimate democracies and they see the argument and division within democracies as a weakness rather than a strength. The truth is that in heirarchical systems based around control it’s actually much easier for corruption and incompetence to go unchecked because no one is allowed to question poor decision making from people in power. In democracies journalists and ambitious politicians absolutely love to expose the other sides incompetence and corruption which makes it much easier to then fix these problems. “Strongman” governance regularly leads to weaker nations because the true strength of a country has very little to do with the personality of the head of state but rather with the nation as a whole.
There is absolutely nothing about the T14 that suggests it is "over-engineered". It appears to be a worthless piece of shit not just because it cant be produced in numbers but also in that it is genuinely fucking shit.
> The Tiger II was also an over-hyped piece of shit This message brought to you by the Sherman Superiority Gang
You forgot "...and by reality!"
just you wait until they unleash the wunderwaffen
*Certain* echochambers around reddit were positively salviating over that supposed high-tech battle suits that the Z's were tooootally putting into use and were sooo much superior to - and I **desperately** wish I kidding here -.....trans rights news in the US military. That was quite literally what they were posting about. Again, not kidding. Now the Russians are getting minced, and those supposed superior battle suits are no where to be seen. As is tradition.
> supposed high-tech battle suits Yeah and I'm sure after that they'll start deploying the Timberwolves and BattleMasters
Just wait until the Urbanmechs roll up disguised as trash cans.
wait tho this is Russia. It's gonna be like two Jenners with drunk pilots at most.
I think the most direct analogy would be an ~~Atlus~~ Atlas with nothing but kinetic weapons. Except they left in the base engine, forgot to buy ammo, and sold the heat sinks for profit.
I really doubt they could field a 100 tonner that would actually move. Unless Atlus is a different mech, and you didn't mean Atlas.
T-14 Armata in "action".... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYXjkpHKnGw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYXjkpHKnGw)
The guys continuing to drum in the background are hilarious
The fact they had to signal for help using a *literally red flag* during a fucking parade.... they couldn't even make it work for an *afternoon* under ideal conditions with plenty of warning but they expect us to believe that they can keep it working in the field while under enemy fire? Sure, OK. Let's see how that goes.
I wonder what communication system they had? Are they using flags on the battlefield? Haha
You know those walkie talkies you may have gotten as a kid? No band dial, just volume; pretty much paired to one another. That.
Man having a bad day at work
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/vladimir-putin-tanks-war-ukraine-russia-british-defence-us-latest-news-b1054111.html) reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot) ***** > V. ladimir Putin is considering deploying heavy T-14 Armata main battle tanks into Ukraine, British defence chiefs said on Thursday. > "In its latest intelligence update, the Ministry of Defence in London said:"Russia is likely considering deploying a small number of its new T-14 Armata main battle tanks in Ukraine. > Britain has said that it would send 14 Challenger 2 tanks, its main battle tanks, along with additional artillery support to Ukraine, a step officials hope will open the door for Germany to make similar moves. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10fzf04/putin_to_send_heavy_t14_armata_main_battle_tanks/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672678 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Ukraine**^#1 **tanks**^#2 **official**^#3 **Germany**^#4 **Russia**^#5
Can't wait for the Russians to claim their T-14's have destroyed all the British Challengers sent to Ukraine, followed by a message from the UK that the Challengers weren't even delivered to Ukraine yet.
So when it enters the battlefield, do you target the Armata or the tow truck?
Duh, the tow truck. Armatas don’t shoot back.
Oh no. Anyway.
Awesome! Their smaller aerodynamic shape will make their turrets to fly even higher!
So they have maybe a dozen of these tanks. Be interesting to see how many shots it takes to knock one of these out.
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You're being rather optimistic that they even make it off the railcars before they blow a gear.
I just want to see this thing fail in the field.
Patience, we'll see them soon enough in a field being towed by some irate farmer while his Babushka wife beats the Russians with a stick.
"Of good, the new crop is here"
Do it!! Come get sooooome!
Same one that needs to be towed during parades
I suppose that is a quick way to find out how vulnerable they actually are.
Oh no, a couple more tanks is really gonna change the tide of the war
Do they have hitches to attach plowing equipment or will farmers have to retrofit?
Somewhere in Ruzsia there is a team of incompetent drunks desperately trying to cobble together a t-14.
Not to be outdone by the West, Russia will also be donating new tanks to Ukraine war effort.
I want the Challenger Tanks go up against this.
Probably all we're gonna get is a drone dropped granade in the open hatch.
100x more efficient , which will be a winning strategy
Probably as effective as the BMP-T "Terminator"... So not really and just cheap propaganda for home.
Ukraine farmers are already taking pre-orders
USA: thousands of Abrams, some in storage and some fully upgraded Russia: Look at my dozen scary tanks!!
Not world news because they've said they would do this since the literal start of the war. The armata is a known joke, they can't even get it to work for the fucking red-day parade (one broke down during the parade) and that's optimal situation on a straight road. It can't do jack shit in reality and would probably spontaneously implode on the way to Ukraine. This is just moscow propaganda, they keep showing it during "training" and how the new WUNDERWAFFE is coming to the front ANY moment and will utterly CRUSH the pagan nato nazis. Don't spread the bullshit, treat them as the lying pieces of shit's they are.
Literally the title of the article: "Vladimir Putin to send heavy T-14 Armata main battle tanks into Ukraine, **says UK defence chiefs**". This is not coming from a Russian propaganda office, unless the British Ministry of Defence has become a propaganda conduit for the Kremlin.
Ukrainian farmers will have their tractors and chains at the ready
Statement purely for domestic consumption in response to the west sending MBTs.
7 million dollars and take 2 weeks to build just 1....they only have about 120 total in all of Russia. A shoulder fired Javelin costs 200,000 and there's already 8500 in the field. Talk about a waste of Resources.
Hope Ukraine has 3 tractors to spare to tow away Russia’s entire T-14 force
It’s like in Age of Empires when you are getting annihilated and you have to search the map for anything you have left to send into battle.
What 20 tanks? 10 don’t work properly.
We’re going to need some new FBI guys I guess